US Presidential Election ... [All recent threads merged here]

[Justthefacts]

This is going to hurt McCain and us so very badly

[TillitsGone]

You guys gotta look at the slideshow on Yahoo.com lol. People r like at freakin' awe now.

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Stock-Markets-Dow-Jones-industrials-New-York-Stock-Exchange/ss/events/bs/081202stock/s:/ap/wall_street/im:/080929/480/6b7ea5c47bbe46ff93a678568c96a0cf/;_ylt=AtX9oJDy_lY.cAWqh.QtKq5v24cA#photoViewer=/080929/photos_bs/2008_09_29t111629_450x300_us_markets_stocks

And the stock went down another 200 points. Surprised? Don't be.

[browneyedgirl]

^ Yeah, my father's about to have a heart attack, lol. The market has been strained for a while now, very stressful time for a lot of investors out there.

[TillitsGone]

U.S.News & World Report
Bailout, Take II: What the Feds Do Next
Monday September 29, 6:07 pm ET

By Rick Newman



OK, so that didn't work.
After a bunch of all-nighters in Washington and some premature back-slapping, we're right back where we were a couple of weeks ago, after Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy and the government lent AIG $85 billion. There's no one-size-fits-all bailout plan, after all. That $700 billion in taxpayer money remains under lock and key. Glum investors are now the ones bailing out, fleeing stocks and bonds and seeking safer ground.

http://www.yahoo.com/s/962000

A "Plan B" they call it. Whatever. :rolleyes: I just can't help but take notice of what's going on. I could be doing other stuff, but this is what I wanna watch. Maybe it's a good thing.

[L.J]

You guys gotta look at the slideshow on Yahoo.com lol. People r like at freakin' awe now.

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Stock-Markets-Dow-Jones-industrials-New-York-Stock-Exchange/ss/events/bs/081202stock/s:/ap/wall_street/im:/080929/480/6b7ea5c47bbe46ff93a678568c96a0cf/;_ylt=AtX9oJDy_lY.cAWqh.QtKq5v24cA#photoViewer=/080929/photos_bs/2008_09_29t111629_450x300_us_markets_stocks

And the stock went down another 200 points. Surprised? Don't be.


damn imagine being one of those guys on the floor these days :ermm:

[Jabz]

They are so going to kill themselves v_v

[TillitsGone]

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/ytownzinks/afdbsmiley.gif - "I ain't goin' back. I ain't. I ain't"

:rofl:

[L.J]

:rollin:

Don't make me gooo in there!!! http://209.85.122.85/10700/138/0/e5762/e5762.gif

[TillitsGone]

"HEAD FO DA HILLZ!" :shout:

http://dl5.glitter-graphics.net/pub/679/679195ou8s4dejfg.gif

[mariemarie]

"HEAD FO DA HILLZ!" :shout:

http://dl5.glitter-graphics.net/pub/679/679195ou8s4dejfg.gif


LMAO :lol: :lol:

[elusive moonwalker]

maybe the saudies have finally pulled out all their money out of the US thats why everyones gone to pot. you dont need bin laden to bring down countries there are much easier ways of doing it

[TillitsGone]

Edit. Nevermind.

[TillitsGone]

maybe the saudies have finally pulled out all their money out of the US thats why everyones gone to pot. you dont need bin laden to bring down countries there are much easier ways of doing it

Man I ain't even know he was still alive. Where have I been? :lol:

[TillitsGone]

OK last thing, and I'll be DONE (for today at least).

So Bush is STILL tryin to push this sh*t:

Candidates, Bush urge reviving financial bailout

By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer 20 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - President Bush warned Tuesday that failing to pass a financial rescue plan would bring severe consequences to the U.S. economy. "Congress must act," he declared in an appeal that John McCain and Barack Obama echoed.

McCain and Obama separately urged Congress to redouble efforts to get a deal through and both proposed increasing federal deposit insurance to $250,000, as a key part of it. Both McCain and Obama called and spoke to the president on Tuesday, a White House official said.

In brief remarks at the White House, Bush warned that, "if our nation continues on this course, the economic damage will be painful and lasting."

http://www.yahoo.com/s/962313

[elusive moonwalker]

at the end of the day if they dont bail out the banks it will effect everyone. there aint much choice regadless of how u feel about the way the banks have acted. this has been coming for years but as normal the american bacnk showed their greed and its fecked up the world economy

[L.J]

OK last thing, and I'll be DONE (for today at least).

So Bush is STILL tryin to push this sh*t:


Hun... Bush is always trying to sell some kinda BS story :lol: he's still trying to explain why they ended up in Iraq after he said "Let's get him! meaning Bin Laden and then the next day everyone finds themselves in Iraq instead of Afghanistan... :lol:


at the end of the day if they dont bail out the banks it will effect everyone. there aint much choice regadless of how u feel about the way the banks have acted. this has been coming for years but as normal the american bacnk showed their greed and its fecked up the world economy

Yes giving all those giant loans to people who would never be able to afford them.... I mean how stupid is that???!!!?? Just greed greed greed :no:

[LindaC781]

"McCAIN" on SNL!! LOL!!

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[TillitsGone]

Hun... Bush is always trying to sell some kinda BS story :lol: he's still trying to explain why they ended up in Iraq after he said "Let's get him! meaning Bin Laden and then the next day everyone finds themselves in Iraq instead of Afghanistan... :lol:

Oh... dude I'm a newbie a this, still developing *gets bottle*

Stll got them tinfoil hats in check, though :shifty:

[MsMo]

FYI:

re: concerns over Palin Hidden Earpiece During Debate

Call the Obama campaign headquarters re: concerns over Palin wearing a hidden earpiece during the debate, in order to get offstage prompts and answers during the debate. It would likely be helpful if you too could try to get through to the campaign expressing your same concerns. Here is the # 866-675-2008. Listen to the menu, press 6. You may have to try a couple of times to get someone to answer.

Palin either too green or a genius actress >>>

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/tucker/stories/2008/10/01/tucked_1001.html


VP debate moderator's impartiality questioned >>>

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iVAeSkYI2HWjkaX11O2cv09Zf73wD93HUHCO1


Some Conservatives Want PBS’s Ifill Out as Debate Moderator >>>

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/01/some-conservatives-want-pbss-ifill-out-as-debate-moderator/?mod=googlenews_wsj
(http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/0-0&fp=48e379671b4bed33&ei=S__jSKabOoHM8ATYodzjDQ&url=http%3A//blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/01/some-conservatives-want-pbss-ifill-out-as-debate-moderator/%3Fmod%3Dgooglenews_wsj&cid=1252745578&usg=AFQjCNGanaTHK7kBfVRn_GdvPqj0j45LMw)

[Bob George]

The U.S. Senate has OK'd the bailout bill which passed with 74 votes to 25. Of those 74 Senators who voted for the bailout bill were Barack Obama, Joe Biden and John McCain who all took time off their Presidential campaigns to fly to Washington D.C. while Governor Sarah Palin prepared for her debate with Joe Biden. The Vice-Presidential debate will be held on Thursday night in St. Louis, Missouri. Sarah Palin needs to perform well in the debate to win back battleground states Florida, Ohio, Nevada, Virginia and North Carolina which have all flipped in Obama's favor this week. Else, it's all up to John McCain to win back voters in the final two Presidential debates leading up to the general election which is only 32 days away.

[TillitsGone]

Whatever they got to do regarding the bailout/financial crisis. I'm over it.

It's gonna be a hoot watching the debate tomorrow. I can't believe it's already October, geez... :ermm:

[L.J]

I don't think Palin will be wearing an earpiece for the debates, I've watched some youtube footage of her debating when she was running for govenor etc and yeah she can kinda hold her own, so it will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow night. I'll have to watch it when I get back from my golf tournament.


On a side note... looks like the conservatives want to blame the minorities for the financial crisis....

Conservatives Seek To Shift Blame For Crisis Onto Minority Housing Law (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/01/conservatives-seek-to-shi_n_131020.html)


Blame for the current economic crisis has been laid on many doorsteps, including the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 (http://banking.senate.gov/conf/); credit default swaps (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/c/credit_default_swaps/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier); hedge funds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_fund); the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/post_140.php?page=all); Alan Greenspan (http://www.newsweek.com/id/159346); and Phil and Wendy Gramm (http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html).
But it has fallen to right-wing pundit Ann Coulter to blaze a truly simple path through the maze of credit derivatives, collateralized loan obligations, tranches, securitization transactions, and Thomson Financial League Tables.

This gentle lady spells out (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucac/20080924/cm_ucac/theygaveyourmortgagetoalessqualifiedminority) the source and origin of the current economic crisis:
"THEY GAVE YOUR MORTGAGE TO A LESS QUALIFIED MINORITY!"

Coulter is putting forward an argument popular (who could be surprised?) among besieged conservatives, that "social engineering" is the root cause of the current economic crisis -- in the form of a 31-year-old law passed during the Carter administration by a Democratic Congress, the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 (http://www.federalreserve.gov/dcca/cra/), "intended to encourage depository institutions to help meet the credit needs of the communities in which they operate, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods, consistent with safe and sound operations."
In Coulter's words, traditional yardsticks of a mortgage applicant's ability to make payments were replaced with "nontraditional measures of credit-worthiness, such as having a good jump shot or having a missing child named 'Caylee';" the result, Coulter continues, is that "middle-class taxpayers are going to be forced to bail out the Democrats' two most important constituent groups: rich Wall Street bankers and welfare recipients."
To make sure her meaning is clear, Coulter echoes a line from the famous anti-affirmative action "White Hands (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIyewCdXMzk)" commercial Jesse Helms used in his 1990 campaign against black challenger Harvey Gantt. The ad shows a pair of white hands crumpling a job rejection slip as the voiceover intones, "You needed that job, you were the best qualified. But they have to give it to a minority because of a racial quota."
Coulter is in the forefront of a concerted drive to shift the partisan consequences of the collapse on Wall Street from helping Democrats to favoring the GOP. To this end, conservatives have initiated a racially explosive argument, shifting the blame for the current economic crisis to legislation designed up improve access to mortgage financing for African Americans, other minorities and residents of low-income neighborhoods generally.

Huffingtonpost Link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/01/conservatives-seek-to-shi_n_131020.html)


:bugeyed

and ahhh No Coulter!!... it is not the minorities fault that corporate greed exists....

I put this all down to laziness... instead of doing the research and providing an affordable option to people looking for loans... banks just go "oh you can apply for the following loans".
Granted there should be a level of responsiblity by the people applying for a loan in at least trying to get something that suits their needs (not wants) and something that they can actually afford.
The truth is there is a lot of people especially those who are less educated on economics/finances (myself included :lol: ) that rely on the banks to give them the right advice. I still think there should be a level of responsibility by bankers to ensure that they are providing a service and not just trying to fill their own pockets.

[arXter]

yeah but she hasn't come across Joe Biden calibre yet http://www.bbc.co.uk/606/2/refresh/images/smileys/f_laugh.gif

this will be a very cringe-worthy, but funny debate. much like this pop cult Quayle debate:

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and if anyone wants to have a good laugh, check out some Quayle super dooper bloopers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYJVfd5WRhE

but if this prick managed to become a VP, then.........................

*Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,,,,,*

[L.J]

:rofl: @ arXter

true very true :lol: should be worth watching... unlike the McCain v Obama debate which bored me to tears

[Bob George]

Biden should so pull a Lloyd Bentsen on Palin in the debate because I know that if the topic of her (in)experience comes up she will be coached to say something like....

Palin: I have as much, if not more experience than Barack Obama and he's seeking the Presidency.

to which Biden should say....

Biden: I know Barack Obama, I've worked with Barack Obama and Governor... you're no Barack Obama.

ROFLMFAO!

If Palin says some ish like that, Biden has just got to throw in a Bentsen vs Quayle reference.

[L.J]

^ so you suggest he should lay the smack down? :lol:


Or he could just say... I don't see you with a grammy... :lol:

[TillitsGone]

I could care less if he said, 'put that in your pipe and smoke it'. Get er done Biden.

[~* White Chocolate *~]

My prediction for tonight: Biden owns Sarah Palin. Period.

[TillitsGone]

It's comin, it's comin, soooooooon.... kick her butt Biden, plz. Majority believes Palin's got this in the bud, I can't believe it. CNN does. Prove them wrong.

1 hour left.

[~* White Chocolate *~]

I have snacks and popcorn and am set to watch! BRING IT BIDEN! Show the world that it takes more then being "cute" **shudders** and being able to pop out babies to be an effective leader. Who ever could think that is a moron. KICK HER ASS BIDEN!

INFORMED WOMEN VOTE OBAMA/BIDEN!

I feel like I'm about to sit down and watch a sporting event. lol! Doesn't it seem that way? I feel that at the beginning of the debate a guy should come out with a microphone and go, "LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!" LOL! :lol:

[browneyedgirl]

Oh lord, for Palin's own sake, I hope she doesn't do as bad as I think she will. To be honest, I think Tiny Fey impersonating Palin would do a better job.

[arXter]

It's comin, it's comin, soooooooon.... kick her butt Biden, plz. Majority believes Palin's got this in the bud, I can't believe it. CNN does. Prove them wrong.

1 hour left.
whaa? naww CNN's trying their best to not sound too sucky sucky towards Dems, so they have to find any ridiculous 'pro' against all the 'cons' of Palin. and because there aren't any, they come up with stretched shite like "Biden is a masterful debater, but is prone to gaffes" LOL

[TillitsGone]

:assassin: Not only one, that's fo sho.(replied to WC)

And whatever about the Govenor debate stuff... "I'll try and find some an' bring em to ya", :ermm: Yeah like thats professional. Exactly artie :lol:

[browneyedgirl]

Exactly artie :lol:
artie. LMFAO.

---
Anyway, polls all over are showing stable support for Biden. I don't know what the hell CNN is talking about. Expectations are pretty low for Palin. Honestly, I don't think she's going to do so bad. She's obviously going to be programmed, but when you're up against Biden, you never know. I have a feeling she's going to sound like a damn robot. Judging from her interviews, she needs to bring more to the table. Not answering questions isn't going to pass by.

[arXter]

what do you lot think about the moderator of the debate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwen_Ifill#2008_debate_controversy) writing a book pro-Obama? it might work against Biden if she tries too hard to not be biased.

and does anyone have an animated gif of Mike spanking Siedah's booty?

[browneyedgirl]

... Palin's doing GREAT. :wild:

[TillitsGone]

And Joe just SUCKS! :rant:

....

:hysterical:

[TillitsGone]

In al seriousness, Biden impressed me. OT: I didn't know he had a daughter and wife that died. What happened?

Palin... tsk well um, she did okay. A lil better but she didn't really catch my attention, and still didn't assure me of what she would actually do to help. I'm still at arms with her, ufortunately.

[~* White Chocolate *~]

Ok...Biden I thought FAR surpassed Palin. She came across as VERY rehearsed and would answer questions that weren't even asked, she wasn't specific at all, retorical rather than straightforward, and quite frankly she came across as being cold and condesending. And pundits were all saying Biden was at risk for appearing that way, it was the other way around. I am tired of seeing so many people in the media who have tried to sugar coat things in regards to Palin just because she's a woman, and that's exactly what's happened. I hate how the McCain people have brought up how they feel the media have been too harsh with her, WTF?! Too harsh my ass. I myself am a woman and I firmly see Mrs. Palin as an embarrassment to all women everywhere. IT IS NOT SEXIST TO QUESTION A WOMAN'S CREDENTIALS OR TO CALL HER OUT ON HER CRAP! For one she has hardly spoke with ANY journalist, and every time she has she's flubbed it up. I mean seriously. How can you screw up an interview with Katie Couric? I mean COME ON! Even now as I watch the pundits responding to how Palin did, they're being WAY too soft on Palin. I mean they all need to GROW A PAIR! She needs to be confronted on her and McCain's contradictions, which I believe Biden did very well, and I truly think he won this debate HANDS DOWN. Biden did what he set out to do and showed the country that he and Obama ARE the intelligent choice , not her and McCain. Biden had the facts, he had a backbone to point out and make known when it was needed (and it WAS OFTEN THROUGHOUT THE DEBATE) when and where what she was saying was either a half-truth twisted in a way that would reflect badly on Obama or whenever she was just FLAT WRONG! I'm glad he called her out on her BS, and the BS McCain has been trying to spin to the American people. I may not agree 100% with Obama and Joe Biden on a couple of issues, but I do believe that they ARE what our country and even the World need at this moment in time. Voting McCain and Palin into Office would be A HORRENDOUS MISTAKE, a mistake the United States just cannot withstand. And this debate showed to me, what I have always felt, Mrs. Palin is NOTHING MORE then George W. Bush in a skirt , only Bush seems to have one or two more functioning brain cells then she does.

We need to rid ourselves of the OBAMA-PHOBIA (The cronic fear of hope) some have become afflicted with in this country. And Biden had the BEST line of the evening, and it was VERY TRUE! It also sums up what a vote for McCain/Palin would be for.

A vote for McCain/Palin would be the ULTIMATE bridge to nowhere.

[~* White Chocolate *~]

In al seriousness, Biden impressed me. OT: I didn't know he had a daughter and wife that died. What happened?

Joe Biden lost his daughter and wife in a car accident back in the early years he began working in the Senate, in the early '70's I believe it was (correct me if I'm wrong) . I believe his two sons were also injured. He didn't even know if they'd pull through. After that happened, he made it a promise to his sons that every night he WOULD BE THERE at home to eat dinner with them. And they didn't live in Washington. He traveled I think two hours (or something like that) by train EVERY DAY to be there with his boys. And you could still see how affected he still is by what happened when he choked up this evening when he was referring to that. Now he's remarried and has another little girl, but it's so sad to know what he's been through.

Oh and B.O.T. for a second. Palin tried to get on Biden for "looking to much in the past" and saying he and Obama don't truly stand for "change when they continue to look in the past and place blame, blah blah blah..." In order TO change you MUST learn from the past mistakes of others as well as the past mistakes you yourself have made. That is just something she and McCain do not seem capable of comprehending.

[TillitsGone]

Yeah, I saw the hesitation there for a second :sad:

I don't think I'll ever understand what the country really wants. It's too complex for me.

[browneyedgirl]

It's a little mind-boggling to think that if something happened to McCain, she'd run the United States.

Holy shit, that's scary.

:bugeyed

[L.J]

I'm watching this debate at the moment and Biden has very white shiny teeth :o

Palin looks like a news reporter... shame she doesn't answer the questions posed but rather goes on about McCain and I.... she's very repetitive :ermm:

[~* White Chocolate *~]

^ EXACTLY! She would only answer on things she had been coached on, THAT WAS SO OBVIOUS! Palin is nothing but a joke and was/is irritating to watch. And if she COULDN'T answer the question presented to her, she would go off on some tangent onto a subject she'd been coached on. And to think pundits this morning were raving about how well she did. Um, were they watching the same Debate I was? There's been hardly ANY mention of the outstanding job Biden did. I guess because the bar had been set so low for Palin that the fact she didn't fall on her face she made her "the winner". THAT'S A JOKE! Biden was brilliant last night. If by some small chance in hell McCain and Palin get elected...that will surely be one of the defining moments in US history when we as a country show the world that we are truly TRULY stupid as a nation and we DO NOT learn from past mistakes. Something Palin and McCain seem unable to understand.

I PRAY TO GOD THAT WE PROVE WE ARE NOT THAT STUPID!

Go the intelligent way and vote Obama/Biden!

I know I am.

[elusive moonwalker]

She came across as VERY rehearsed and would answer questions that weren't even asked, she wasn't specific at all, retorical rather than straightforward, and quite frankly she came across as being cold and condesending
agree she looked as coached as the arvizos. could have reading it off a screen staring right ahead and not moving a inch like she was

[~* White Chocolate *~]

Oh and I would LOVE to hear her define the word Maverick, and I honestly want to know if she could name the countries in Europe and the middle east if she were just given a map without the names and told to fill it in. I bet she couldn't do it.

It's a very scary notion that she could be potentially the president one day.

[Bob George]

FactChecking Biden-Palin Debate (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html)
October 3, 2008

The candidates were not 100 percent accurate. To say the least.

Summary

Biden and Palin debated, and both mangled some facts.

- Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.

- Biden incorrectly said “John McCain voted the exact same way” as Obama on a controversial troop funding bill. The two were actually on opposite sides. Bob George side-note: McCain did oppose an amendment of the bill in question (btw, Obama did vote for the bill once it was amended) because it contained language calling for a timeline for withdrawal. Which is obviously what Biden was referring to. I think fact-check.org had a problem with Biden's wording because he said they voted "the exact same way". They're obviously scrapping the barrel to level up the number of Palin misstatements with Biden misstatements.

- Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year. Bob George side-note: Also, the bill by itself would not have increased taxes.

- Biden wrongly claimed that McCain “voted the exact same way” as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn't address taxes at that income level.

- Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.

- Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said "he wouldn't even sit down" with the government of Spain. Actually, McCain didn't reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.

- Palin wrongly claimed that “millions of small businesses” would see tax increases under Obama’s tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases. Bob George side-note: Also, Obama's tax plan will eliminate the capital gains tax on start-up and small business. He has also included tax credits which will benefit small business owners in his tax plan. His entire tax plan is completely transparent and available for anyone to peruse on his website.

For full details on these misstatements, and on additional factual disputes and dubious claims, click here (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html).

[mello1]

Joe Biden lost his daughter and wife in a car accident back in the early years he began working in the Senate, in the early '70's I believe it was (correct me if I'm wrong) . I believe his two sons were also injured. He didn't even know if they'd pull through. After that happened, he made it a promise to his sons that every night he WOULD BE THERE at home to eat dinner with them. And they didn't live in Washington. He traveled I think two hours (or something like that) by train EVERY DAY to be there with his boys. And you could still see how affected he still is by what happened when he choked up this evening when he was referring to that. Now he's remarried and has another little girl, but it's so sad to know what he's been through.


Yeah. He had been just elected to the Senate for the first time just the month before. His wife, infant daughter and 2 young sons were shopping for a christmas tree.

I think icy road conditions contributed to the crash. His wife and daughter were killed and his 2 young sons were badly injured.

Joe Biden wasn't going to accept the Senate seat. He had to be talked into it. He took the oath of office at his son's hospital beds.

From that point on, he travelled 4 hours round trip everyday for 38 years from Washington DC to be home with his kids.

I've always liked Joe Biden because he is the true 'straight talk express'. He never minces words.

But I had a great amount more respect for him after I learned of his life.

What so cute about his now so grown sons, is that once they got better, they asked him when were they getting married! :D

So when he met and dated his second wife, Jill, all 3 proposed to her and they took them on the honeymoon.

Now that's a real person to me.

~~~~

Sarah Palin is a fake and a phony. She props her special needs infant up like a damn prop. It's disgusting. She was so damn terrified of going off point that when Senator Biden recalled that tough moment in his life being a single parent and nearly broke down, she started recited stupid talking points as if nothing had happened.

I only feel contempt for people that heartless.:mat::mat:

[~* White Chocolate *~]

Yeah. He had been just elected to the Senate for the first time just the month before. His wife, infant daughter and 2 young sons were shopping for a christmas tree.

I think icy road conditions contributed to the crash. His wife and daughter were killed and his 2 young sons were badly injured.

Joe Biden wasn't going to accept the Senate seat. He had to be talked into it. He took the oath of office at his son's hospital beds.

From that point on, he travelled 4 hours round trip everyday for 38 years from Washington DC to be home with his kids.

I've always liked Joe Biden because he is the true 'straight talk express'. He never minces words.

But I had a great amount more respect for him after I learned of his life.

What so cute about his now so grown sons, is that once they got better, they asked him when were they getting married! :D

So when he met and dated his second wife, Jill, all 3 proposed to her and they took them on the honeymoon.

Now that's a real person to me.

~~~~

Sarah Palin is a fake and a phony. She props her special needs infant up like a damn prop. It's disgusting. She was so damn terrified of going off point that when Senator Biden recalled that tough moment in his life being a single parent and nearly broke down, she started recited stupid talking points as if nothing had happened.

I only feel contempt for people that heartless.:mat::mat:

I think he was also only 29 years old when it happened too. I cannot even begin to imaginegoing through something like that.

I have always liked Joe Biden as well, and learning about his life and what he's done, it shows how much of a stand up man he truly is. Granted, I don't agree with him on every issue, but for the most part I do agree with him on most. He's an intelligent man who knows what needs to be done. I wanted to hug Joe last night, because you could see how much he was willing himself NOT to break down. It was a heart breaking moment, and Palin made me sick. Again, she came across as being rehearsed/coached/or whatever you want to call it, cold, and full of crap who couldn't give a straight answer to save her life.

McCain is just angry that the likeli-hood of him winning this election is VERY slim and with a VP canidate like Palin at his side, those chances grow smaller and smaller.

Biden worked it last night and was everything I expected him to be and more.

Obama/Biden 2008! I just hope the US doesn't let me, the rest of the country, and the world down. Because that is what ultimately is at stake.

Everyone just needs to wake up and I hope this "debate" helped in doing that.

[mello1]

WC, I think that a good number of Americans want someone who is going to roll up the sleeves and get to work digging us out of the hole that we are in. The gimmicks and spinning doesn't seem to be working out very well for the GOP in general.

Nor is all of the coded language...

[bgz]

What kept going through my head last night was that one of these 2 VP candidates could be a heartbeat away from stepping in as President of the United States. Personally, the thought of Palin being emergently made head of our country terrifies me. Conversely, I think Biden could more than step up to the plate in such a circumstance.

While I think of myself as an independent, I am a registered Democrat ideologically (sp). However McCain has in the past always been in my radar for reportedly standing up for what he feels is good for the country and not just good for the party. How true that is depends upon what you read, but I would not say I would never vote for him. In this circumstance though, with Palin as his running mate, there is no way I could swing that way. That, and basic stances on important issues of the campaign simply prevent me from even entertaining a vote for the McCain/Palin ticket.

Tragic life circumstances have made both McCain and Biden strong people, and I respect that in both of them.

[~* White Chocolate *~]

WC, I think that a good number of Americans want someone who is going to roll up the sleeves and get to work digging us out of the hole that we are in. The gimmicks and spinning doesn't seem to be working out very well for the GOP in general.

Nor is all of the coded language...

I certainly hope you're right.

[Bob George]

The Obama/Biden ticket has picked up some more support so I feel it's time for another update on the latest state polling results from the battleground states.

Battleground state poll results

- A battleground state is defined as any state where the leading ticket is not leading by an average of 5 points or more.
- Results are from mid-late September through to early October.
- Most poll results listed below are prior to the VP debate.

Nevada (5 Electoral Votes)
Average Obama/Biden +0.5
Insider Advantage/Poll Position (InAdv/PollPosition) Obama/Biden +1
CNN/Time Obama/Biden +4
Suffolk University McCain/Palin +1
American Research Group (ARG) McCain/Palin +2

North Carolina (15 EVs)
Average Obama/Biden +0.5
Rasmussen Obama/Biden +3
Public Policy Polling (PPP) Obama/Biden +2
Civitas/TelOpinion Tie
ARG McCain/Palin +3

Missouri (11 EVs)
Average McCain/Palin +1.7
Rasmussen McCain/Palin +5
SurveyUSA McCain/Palin +2
Post-Dispatch McCain/Palin +1
CNN/Time Obama/Biden +1

Ohio (20 EVs)
Average Obama/Biden +2.0
Quinnipiac Obama/Biden +8
InAdv/PollPosition Obama/Biden +2
SurveyUSA McCain/Palin +1
FOX News/Rasmussen McCain/Palin +1

Indiana (11 EVs)
Average McCain/Palin +2.2
CNN/Time McCain/Palin +6
Big10 Battleground McCain/Palin +4
SurveyUSA McCain/Palin +3
Rasmussen McCain/Palin +2
Research 2000 McCain/Palin +1
Indy Star/Selzer Obama/Biden +3

Virginia (13 EVs)
Average Obama/Biden +2.4
CNN/Time Obama/Biden +9
InAdv/PollPosition Obama/Biden +6
FOX News/Rasmussen Obama/Biden +3
Mason-Dixon McCain/Palin +3
ARG McCain/Palin +3

Florida (27 EVs)
Average Obama/Biden +3.0
Quinnipiac Obama/Biden +8
CNN/Time Obama/Biden +4
Suffolk/WSVN Obama/Biden +4
InAdv/PollPosition Obama/Biden +3
PPP Obama/Biden +3
FOX News/Rasmussen Tie
SurveyUSA McCain/Palin +1

Colorado (9 EVs)
Average Obama/Biden +4.4
InAdv/PollPosition Obama/Biden +9
PPP Obama/Biden +7
CNN/Time Obama/Biden +4
Ciruli Assoc. Obama/Biden +1
FOX News/Rasmussen Obama/Biden +1

With these battleground states included, that puts the current electoral college progections as 353 EVs for Obama/Biden and 185 EVs for McCain/Palin. 270 EVs are needed to win the election. So at the moment, Obama and Biden have a very comfortable lead and a highly probably election victory. McCain/Palin would have to win every one of the above battleground states to get over 270 EVs and therefore win the election. The way it looks now, that probably wont happen. But the post-debate polls haven't come in yet.

[TillitsGone]

^^I like the way that looks. Thanks for the update.

[TillitsGone]

BUMP.

http://www.yahoo.com/s/965736

AP
Wall Street tumbles amid global sell-off
Monday October 6, 1:51 pm ET
By Joe Bel Bruno, AP Business Writer
Stocks decline amid global worries credit crisis is spreading; Dow falls below 10,000

NEW YORK (AP) -- Financial markets took a bleak view of the future Monday, seeing contagion in a credit crisis that threatens to cascade through economies globally despite government efforts to provide relief. The Dow Jones industrials skidded more than 500 points and fell below 10,000 for the first time in four years, while the credit markets remained under strain.

Investors around the world have come to the sobering realization that the Bush administration's $700 billion rescue plan won't work quickly to unfreeze the credit markets. Global banks, hobbled by wrong-way bets on mortgage securities, remain starved for cash as credit has dried up.

[LindaC781]

You guys want to see something really SAD?? Just go here...http://messages.yahoo.com/Government_%26_Politics/forumview?bn=7701295%23fuce66

That board is full of RACISTS. No kidding. And ALL seem to be from the RIGHT!!

[Ms.MJ Fan2007]

Brack Obma is still going to be the next black presn.

[Bob George]

McCain just can't win. lol. Even though Palin exceeded expetations and recieve a lot of praise for her debate performance, the polls that have come in since the debate don't look good for the McCain/Palin ticket. They've now lost Missouri. Obama is up by .3 point on average in the Missouri polls. Which is pretty much a tie. McCain was up 2+ points in Missouri before the debate. Obama's also gone up in North Carolina, Ohio and Florida since the debate. All states which were, until recently, McCain's. Even when Palin does well McCain's number continue to fall in the polls. Here is the current electoral map based on numbers from RealClearPolitics.com and Electoral-Vote.com....

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/electoralcollegepre-debate2small.jpg

Larger version (http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/electoralcollegepre-debate2.jpg)

[TillitsGone]

You guys want to see something really SAD?? Just go here...http://messages.yahoo.com/Government_%26_Politics/forumview?bn=7701295%23fuce66

That board is full of RACISTS. No kidding. And ALL seem to be from the RIGHT!!

Wow, that's sad... but I couldn't help but, giggle at the butt jokes. :giggle:

And thanks for the update Bob George. And now folks r riding Obama's ass about his connection with some terrorist named William Ayers or whatever non-sense. The hell is that all about :rolleyes:

[browneyedgirl]

Tonight's debates should be interesting. The polls don't look good for America's mavericks... by the way, if McCain uses the term maverick tonight, I'm going to flip shit. They answer every damn question by saying "maverick.". You're no maverick... stfu and just answer the question.

[TillitsGone]

:rofl:

I just hope they don't bring up this Ayerz bullshizz.... they do anything for desperation. ANYTHING.

[J5master]

COME ON MCCAIN! Chicago Shedd Aquarium NEEDED that overhead projector! I can vouch for that! :lol:

[TillitsGone]

I'll have to watch this again anotha time. Guess listening to Amerie was more important. Whoops, lol.

[Bob George]

It's over. McCain has just handed the election to Obama. He needed to win this debate decisively and he couldn't even win it narrowly. I was watching the debate on Fox News and after the debate even they were saying Obama not only won this debate, but the whole election. Because McCain needed a knock out to stay in the game. That didn't happen. Neither candidate knocked the other out. But Obama was the winner by default because for McCain to win he needed to win decisively. Just like Palin was the winner by default of the VP debate because she didn't completely screw up. It's pretty much decided now that Obama will win the election. Hands down. There's only one debate left and that's not enough for McCain to turn things around. He pretty much handed the election to Obama tonight and I think he did that knowingly and willingly. I don't think he really wants to win the election. I think the GOP has a strategy to lose this election and then put Palin up for nomination in 2012. That's where their sights are set. I think McCain is throwing the election.

[friend]

Tonight's debates should be interesting. The polls don't look good for America's mavericks... by the way, if McCain uses the term maverick tonight, I'm going to flip shit. They answer every damn question by saying "maverick.". You're no maverick... stfu and just answer the question.

lol nope tonight he just answered everything with my friends i know how to do this or that but never said how he would lol what a shmoe

[L.J]

Wow interesting thoughts I might have to take a peek at it tonight just to see how it goes.

I'm predicting either way more mess for the next 4 years, there's just too much rubbish to be cleaned up.

[mariemarie]

Obama 2008 :punk:

[L.J]

L.J 2008!

vote for the best :wild:



I watched the debate and gosh.... :mello: all the comments about other countries... what a lack of diplomacy McCain...

[Bob George]

The best part of the debate by far was....

(I'll be paraphrasing as I'm reciting all this from memory)

McCain: When it comes to foreign policy, Obama just doesn't understand.
Obama: You're right. I don't understand. I don't understand why we attacked a country that didn't have anything to do with 9/11 while Osama Bin Laden and al-Qaeda set up bases and safe-havens in the hills bordering Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Chris Rock: My father once told me that you can never beat a white person. You can only knock them out. (Talking about the first debate not being a decisive win for Obama because he didn't "knock out" McCain.)
well McCain......
Chris Tucker: You got knocked the f*** out!

[MsMo]

'Barack With You' - Obama dances to Rock With You

<object width="425" height="344">
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FThpc6RUETQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

[Naturelle]

McCain just can't win. lol. Even though Palin exceeded expetations and recieve a lot of praise for her debate performance, the polls that have come in since the debate don't look good for the McCain/Palin ticket. They've now lost Missouri. Obama is up by .3 point on average in the Missouri polls. Which is pretty much a tie. McCain was up 2+ points in Missouri before the debate. Obama's also gone up in North Carolina, Ohio and Florida since the debate. All states which were, until recently, McCain's. Even when Palin does well McCain's number continue to fall in the polls. Here is the current electoral map based on numbers from RealClearPolitics.com and Electoral-Vote.com....

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/electoralcollegepre-debate2small.jpg

Larger version (http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/electoralcollegepre-debate2.jpg)

This is truly amazing!!!! You can actually see each state change, (swing state). Come November 4th, it will be all blue . :)

[L.J]

Am I the only one getting annoyed with McCain's robotic like moves? I was watching the debate and he was all shiny looking so that crossed with his robotic moves kept making me think of a life size wax model :ermm:
I know that's superficial and has nothing to do with making a good or bad candidate... but seriously he could be a robot :ermm:

[Naturelle]

Am I the only one getting annoyed with McCain's robotic like moves? I was watching the debate and he was all shiny looking so that crossed with his robotic moves kept making me think of a life size wax model :ermm:
I know that's superficial and has nothing to do with making a good or bad candidate... but seriously he could be a robot :ermm:

yes, i noticed it too. he was beathing hard and seemed angry as well.

[Scorpio]

Am I the only one getting annoyed with McCain's robotic like moves? I was watching the debate and he was all shiny looking so that crossed with his robotic moves kept making me think of a life size wax model :ermm:
I know that's superficial and has nothing to do with making a good or bad candidate... but seriously he could be a robot :ermm:

Like they said on CNN he really showed his age. Too me it looked like he was moving so slowly and I don't know. I mean it has nothing to do with anything like you said but it did stand out to me as well.

[Bob George]

OMG! This is classic. McCain called Americans "my fellow prisoners"....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/N4FADXTI-vc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/N4FADXTI-vc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[L.J]

oh good grief :rofl:


I was getting tired of him calling everyone "my friends"
Gee!! mix it up a bit pleaaaseee :banghead

[L.J]

slightly off-topic but the economic crisis in the US & UK doesn't appear to be having an impact on Australia like I thought it would :o

Mr Rudd pointed to a report released overnight by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) (http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,24469131-462,00.html)which forecast the Australian economy to grow by 2.5 per cent in 2008 and 2.2 per cent in 2009.
The forecast is a significant reduction on the 4.2 per cent growth experienced in 2007.
The IMF biannual World Economic Outlook revised down its July forecasts for global economic growth to 3.9 per cent in 2008 and 3.0 per cent in 2009, the slowest pace since 2002.
The report also suggested that the most advanced economies in the world were "already in or close to recession".
But Mr Rudd said the forecasts supported the notion that the Australian economy was better-placed than those of other countries.
"What does it say about the most advanced economies in the world in 2009 - basically close to recession or in recession. What does it say about Australia - a growth number with a two in front of it."
"That represents a fundamental difference," he said.

"My job is to do everything possible, everything decisive available to government to maintain this difference between our circumstances and those of the United States and elsewhere."
Mr Rudd said he had a responsibility to speak objectively about the problems facing Australia and its strengths.
"People running around throwing their hands in the air, talking about nightmares, is not leadership, that's commentary. And I'm not in the business of commentary."
"The nation requires plain talking, straight talking about the problems we face and the strengths we've got, and that's what I intend to keep doing."

Link (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24472400-1702,00.html?from=public_rss)


Good on ya Ruddy! I have been seriously worried cause we tend to follow most US trends or UK trends but in this situation... clearly not.

[Bob George]

^ Well our dollar is at a 5-year low and the Australian share market is at a 3-year low.

[Scorpio]

This Gave Me A Good Laugh.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qt_TnQqkVyk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qt_TnQqkVyk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[~* White Chocolate *~]

^ ROTFLMAO!

I Loved the part where he said, "Oh look at me, I'm black, angry, and out of control." LOL!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[browneyedgirl]

This Gave Me A Good Laugh.

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qt_TnQqkVyk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>
HAHAHAHAHAHA I love this! "Uh, I didn't expect him to actually hand me the bag."

[MsMo]

<tt><tt>http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/browneyedgirl77/obama.gif

</tt></tt>Browneyedgirl, I LUV your siggy! :D

[~* White Chocolate *~]

HAHAHAHAHAHA I love this! "Uh, I didn't expect him to actually hand me the bag."

Classic! LOL!

[Naturelle]

HAHAHAHAHAHA I love this! "Uh, I didn't expect him to actually hand me the bag."

LOL ,,,, I love your siggy too! ...:)

[L.J]

oh geez :rofl: he's got him down pat :rofl:

"I'm going to offer your campaign a bail out package... ah basically you quit now and i'll spare you the embaressment" :rofl:

[Love.him]

I was wondering if anyone noticed McCain's strange body language during this week's debate. He seemed to have his back to the camera a lot of times too. It felt like he had his back on me the viewers. I was talking to a friend about this body language and she felt he had his back to Obama a lot and kept looking down over his shoulder at him. I'm sure some of his movements are because of the permanent injuries he has from years of torture during the Vietnam war but I'd still say his body language is not positive and when he left early that seemed to cement that impression for me. I'm sure others felt that way too.

On another note, the videos aren't showing up for me right now. I'm hoping it 's just the computer I'm using at this moment.


Am I the only one getting annoyed with McCain's robotic like moves? I was watching the debate and he was all shiny looking so that crossed with his robotic moves kept making me think of a life size wax model :ermm:
I know that's superficial and has nothing to do with making a good or bad candidate... but seriously he could be a robot :ermm:

[Mechi]

I was wondering if anyone noticed McCain's strange body language during this week's debate. He seemed to have his back to the camera a lot of times too. It felt like he had his back on me the viewers. I was talking to a friend about this body language and she felt he had his back to Obama a lot and kept looking down over his shoulder at him. I'm sure some of his movements are because of the permanent injuries he has from years of torture during the Vietnam war but I'd still say his body language is not positive and when he left early that seemed to cement that impression for me. I'm sure others felt that way too.

On another note, the videos aren't showing up for me right now. I'm hoping it 's just the computer I'm using at this moment.

I've noticed that too :mello:
I'd say he has a serious health problem but it's probably not a 'strong candidates' image to admitt. *shrugs*

[~* White Chocolate *~]

A vote for McCain is basically a vote for a very possible President Palin and that should scare the hell out of EVERYONE.

Obama/Biden 2008.

[LindaC781]

From my latest blog:

http://f3.yahoofs.com/blog/45da5c5fz9176cd36/96/__sr_/f6af.jpg?mgoe07IBrq.t6mxM (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog/slideshow.html?p=743&id=4bNu0l09cqobP9mCyFwCijeG0nCmmne1gIkY675VGg--) http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/nt/ic/ut/bsc/srch12_1.gif (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog/slideshow.html?p=743&id=4bNu0l09cqobP9mCyFwCijeG0nCmmne1gIkY675VGg--)
Once upon a time in America - we went to war. We fought in a country called Vietnam. For those of you too young to know, Vietnam was a war that had no winners or losers...
From Wikipedia:
The United States entered the war to prevent a communist takeover of South Vietnam as part of a wider strategy called containment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containment). Military advisors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_advisor) were sent beginning in 1950. U.S. involvement escalated in the early 1960s and combat units (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_unit) were deployed beginning in 1965. Involvement peaked in 1968 at the time of the Tet Offensive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tet_Offensive). Under a policy called Vietnamization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamization), U.S. forces withdrew as South Vietnamese troops were trained and armed. Despite a peace treaty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Conference) signed by all parties in January 1973, fighting continued. In response to the anti-war movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Vietnam_War), the U.S. Congress passed the Case-Church Amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case-Church_Amendment) in June 1973 prohibiting further U.S. military intervention. In April 1975, North Vietnam captured Saigon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Saigon). North and South Vietnam were reunified the following year.
A man named William Ayers has been in the news lately. Back in 1964, he wasn't the only one who was young and angry during this time period. When you see horrible killing and mutilations, you are bound to be angry. Yes, William Ayers was angry. He was angry at an unjust war being fought. He saw pictures of women and babies being killed. He wanted that war to stop. He used every single device available to him to try to stop it.

It is now 50 years later. William Ayers is now a 64 year old man. He is a Professor of Education now at the University of Chicago. He is now an old man.

To try to equate the William Ayers of 1964 to the William Ayers of 2008 is being very dishonest and unfair. From wikipedia - "Ayers was asked in a January 2004 interview, "How do you feel about what you did? Would you do it again under similar circumstances?" He replied:[24] "I've thought about this a lot. Being almost 60, it's impossible to not have lots and lots of regrets about lots and lots of things, but the question of did we do something that was horrendous, awful? ... I don't think so. I think what we did was to respond to a situation that was unconscionable." On September 9, 2008, journalist Jake Tapper reported on the comic strip in Bill Ayers's blog explaining the soundbite: "The one thing I don't regret is opposing the war in Vietnam with every ounce of my being.... When I say, 'We didn't do enough,' a lot of people rush to think, 'That must mean, "We didn't bomb enough shit."' But that's not the point at all. It's not a tactical statement, it's an obvious political and ethical statement. In this context, 'we' means 'everyone.'"[25][26]"

I APPLAUD what William Ayers, and COUNTLESS OTHERS did during the 1960's to STOP the Vietnam War. In MY eyes, the man is a hero.

I lost my cousin to the Vietnam War. He led a troop of fellow Green Berets into a forest laden with Agent Orange. He contracted a very rare form of cancer years later because of exposure to that. If William Ayers had succeeded, maybe my cousin wouldn't have had to fight there in the first place.

I will ALWAYS support what William Ayers and others did. They stood up to the powers that be to fight for something that was plainly WRONG.

ALSO, peaceful demonstration didn't work....look at what happened to those poor students at Kent State:
From: Wikipedia

The Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre or Kent State massacre,[2][3][4] occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. Four students were killed and nine others were wounded, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[5]

Some of the students who were shot had been protesting against the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. However, other students who were shot had merely been walking nearby or observing the protest from a distance.[6][7]

There was a significant national response to the shootings: hundreds of universities, colleges, and high schools closed throughout the United States due to a student strike of eight million students, and the event further divided the country, at this already socially contentious time, along political lines.
The Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre or Kent State massacre,[2][3][4] occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. Four students were killed and nine others were wounded, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[5]

Some of the students who were shot had been protesting against the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. However, other students who were shot had merely been walking nearby or observing the protest from a distance.[6][7]

There was a significant national response to the shootings: hundreds of universities, colleges, and high schools closed throughout the United States due to a student strike of eight million students, and the event further divided the country, at this already socially contentious time, along political lines.

***
Hell, I remember that. I remember one day my Dad bringing me to his state college....and me seeing black coffins strewn out in the front lawn, with white crosses painted on them. There were four coffins.

I will close this blog off with the following thought, which still rings true, even today!

From: George Santayana (1905 -1906)
* Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim.

* Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
o This famous statement has produced many paraphrases and variants:
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.
Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.

[TillitsGone]

McCain AD Obama and Ayers :smilerolleyes:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LBdfiAco31g&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LBdfiAco31g&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[browneyedgirl]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/browneyedgirl77/987543.jpg

[~* White Chocolate *~]

Palin has just been shown to be the abusive politician I have always felt she was. Palin needs to go crawl back in the hole in the ground she came out of. She is a disgrace to women EVER WHERE. I say that without an ounce of hesitation.

[arXter]

i just saw a clip on CNN with the following conversation between McCain and a supporter:




Woman: "I don't trust Obama, I have read about him. He's an Arab."

McCain: "No, ma'am. He's a decent, family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with (him) on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/606/2/refresh/images/smileys/f_laugh.gif Ayrabs are now indecent family folk.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/606/2/refresh/images/smileys/f_grr.gif

[browneyedgirl]

Woman: "I don't trust Obama, I have read about him. He's an Arab."

McCain: "No, ma'am. He's a decent, family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with (him) on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about."

:bugeyed
Seeing how the majority of arabs live in swing states, I'm sure this is what McCain needs.

Damn fool...

[L.J]

^ :rofl: great point.... :lol:

[arXter]

heh Obama had the Arab vote in the bag when he decided to keep 'Hussein' as his middle name lol

the dodgy thing is he won't acknowledge that "Barack" is an Arabic name LOL it means "blessed".

[browneyedgirl]

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WI0iIOqPGak&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

I didn't even notice this.

[L.J]

what the heck... in the first debate he wouldn't make eye contact with Obama and now he wont shake hands. I'm sorry but that just makes him look rude. If he was president and didn't shake our PMs hand I'd be disgusted

[Scorpio]

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I didn't even notice this.

Wow I didn't notice that either. I mean wow....

I mean I had views of his character to begin with and this just further proves my point. You dont have to like a man to respect him. And to at least shake his hand. Unbelievable.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

I wish this stupid thing would end already so I can stop hearing about it, lol. Obama is going to win, I don't think anyone has anything to worry about on that front. Then we'll see if he can live up to his hype.

[mello1]

I wish this stupid thing would end already so I can stop hearing about it, lol. Obama is going to win, I don't think anyone has anything to worry about on that front. Then we'll see if he can live up to his hype.

Would you rather see McCain and Palin live up to their hype? Or perhaps you like the race baiting that is going on right now....

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Would you rather see McCain and Palin live up to their hype? Or perhaps you like the race baiting that is going on right now....

I don't know what you're talking about. I just don't see Obama as the savior that so many others see him as. His race means nothing to me, and it shouldn't mean anything to anyone else either. I think he'll make a fine President, I just don't think he's going to be some revolutionary or something radically different from any other democrat. He's a politician and says what needs to be said. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy or is going to be shitty in office, it just means, in my view, that he isn't going to bring any sort of change that we haven't seen before. I don't like at all what you're insinuating with me. You obviously have an issue with me, which apparently you can't let go of, you always have, and frankly, I don't give a damn anymore. I don't even know what that statement of yours above is supposed to mean.

[mello1]

I don't know what the fu** you're talking about. I just don't see Obama as the savior that so many others see him as. His race means nothing to me, and it shouldn't mean anything to anyone else either. I think he'll make a fine President, I just don't think he's going to be some revolutionary or something radically different from any other democrat. He's a politician and says what needs to be said. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy or is going to be shitty in office, it just means, in my view, that he isn't going to bring any sort of change that we haven't seen before. I don't like at all what you're insinuating with me. You obviously have an issue with me, you always have, and frankly, I don't give a damn.

Oh I think you do and your post makes no sense Nicole. And if you can't discuss things with me without thinking that I'm out to get you, then that's your problem.

The mere fact that any Democrat gets into the WH over virtally 20 years of a conservative philosophy that seeks to dumb down America by using wedge issues and class/social warfare to maintain power, IS change.

I don't know why Hillary supporters assume that people who support Obama view him as a messiah. He is SO NOT THAT.

Also, I don't insinuate. I say it. You can choose to reply to it or not. Or read more into what I say without explaining yourself or clarfiying or asking for a clarification.

That's up to you.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

I'm not a "Hillary" supporter. I would have preferred her, simply because I like her more, but I don't actually support any politician or candidate. I'm not in to politics for the most part. Their stance was and is basically identical either way. And I'm fully aware that niether one is fully honest or is intending to keep their word on every issue. Obama has attained a sort of rock star image, for whatever reason, and people are desperate to get out of the current situation, so they're looking to him as someone who can flip everything overnight. And that's not going to happen. Like I said, I don't expect any sort of radical change from him. And NO, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Why don't you stop trying to be cute and just say what it is you mean. I have no ulterior motive with what I said. I mean just what's there. Every time you disagree with me, you come at me with that patronizing tone, as usual. It's so old its laughable. I don't know why you can't just ignore me. Because that's what I do with you. You can deny you don't have an issue with me all you want, but it's abudently clear that you do.

[arXter]

He's a politician and says what needs to be said.
you're right, he is way over-hyped but i think because of that it provides a lot of unnecessary cynicism against him (if you look at his policies and views, it's quite refreshing). i do agree a lot with his liberal/conservative mixture of stances on foreign policy and at least noticing the effect of lobbying and because of that i'd support his bid.

but as you hinted at, we're getting a follow-up to an American presidency and this job goes beyond one president's powers or ideals and we're already seeing the effect and pressures of others onto his stances and who knows how other people higher up in the chain will affect him - personnel we may not even know about. i'm no conspiracy theorist, but in such a secrative government, anything is possible.

but if you feel that way about Obama, i don't know how the hell you could get near even the mentioning of Hillary lol but that argument is hopefully dead and buried...

[Superstition]

Obama and McCain's policies on war are very, very different. Obama wants a timetable and a plan of action to turn the Iraqi government over and to pull U.S. troops from Iraq, he wants more troops in Afghanistan and he wants to closely scrutinize and cut back on pumping money overseas on the war. McCain has not really said anything other than "we have to win" but has not made any concrete statements on how he plans to do that, he hasn't mentioned a timetable and basically has said he wants to cut spending but has done so under pressure more than because he really wants to.

I actually really like John McCain, but there's no way I'm voting to put a republican back in the white house, especially not after his VP choice.

Time will tell, but I have high hopes for Barack. Bill Clinton didn't have the movement Barack had, but he was facing an incumbent president and was seen as a young, charming guy and many doubted him, but the country had great prosperity under his term. The biggest story in his presidency was that he cheated on his wife. That speaks of how well things were going under his watch.

I think Barack will win (McCain's numbers are plummeting), but I am actually worried. As you know, our votes basically meant nothing in 2000 and the election was super-tight in 2004. Things seem to be going to smooth for something insane to not happen before or during election time. One jacked up state or some crazy voting controversy and who knows what will happen.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Well see, you understand what I mean. I'm not a supporter of Clinton, that was mischaracterized I think simply because I preferred her. And I only preferred her because Obama frankly rubs me the wrong way. Policy wise, they're both fine to me. Hillary isn't even the issue anymore, she's out of the picture. Obama just isn't going to be some miracal worker, is all I meant, and unfortunately, I think a lot of people are under the notion that he will be. When things don't start shifting radically or in a big way after a few months, I'm afraid people are going to be sorely dissapointed simply because of their own unrealistic expectations. I'm not critical of Obama because of his policies. I just think he's very slick and isn't going to be everything he's being hyped up to be, that's all. And that's ALL I meant by my statement. I wasn't trying to bait anybody or start any kind of argument. I was just saying, we'll see.

[arXter]

Obama just isn't going to be some mirical worker, is all I meant, and unfortunately, I think a lot of people are under the notion that he will be. When things don't start shifting radically or in a big way after a few months, I'm afraid people are going to be sorely dissapointed simply because of their own unrealistic expectations. I'm not critical of Obama because of his policies. I just think he's very slick and isn't going to be everything he's being hyped up to be, that's all.
i agree with that, and i think part of the cause is that people look back at the last eight years and then hear all that rhetoric of "change, change; yes we can" and kind of hollywoodize it into massive expectations.

also, he's virtuallly preaching. and we know the effect (http://www.ifilm.com/video/2800789) that has on people lol

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Yeah, exactly, lol. You see exactly what I meant. The word "change" keeps getting tossed around. You know, it's like that poem, "a rose, is a rose, is a rose..." lol. It's not that I don't think he'll be affective or do good things, but the way some people talk about him, it's like they expect the entire world to do a 180 degree turn from where it is now under him in office and that's just not going to happen. I don't think politics is the way to any kind of perminent, radical change period, lol. And yeah, Obama is very charasmatic and he does preach, which gets people stirred and riled up. He's a good performer, lol.

[Superstition]

Well, it did a 180 under Bush's watch, lol.

Granted, pulling it out of the gutter is a lot easier than putting it in, but I'm not entirely sure people expect too much of Barack. I just think they're excited at the prosperity of at least SOME change. Let's get the price of gas back down, let's make healthcare less restrictive and cheaper, and let's give the Iraqis a timeline to get their government in control. I fully agree, it won't happen overnight and people hoping for that will be dissapointed, but I think if we start seeing change a little at a time, it will give people a lot of hope and faith.

[Roxanne]

i dont think ppl expect from obama to make radical changes and any kind of "revolution". they simply expect him to save the economy and go after the right ppl (terrorists) who are a threat to america and the rest of humanity and punish them for the indescribably horrible devilish crimes. they expect him to solve important domestic issues and make america stand on its feet again. i think obama is the right choice and hes the one who can and will do all that. i hope he gets elected and i'm positive he can make a great president for all americans. i think america desperately needs obama and i hope it gets him.

[LindaC781]

Will Farrell as Dubya....TOO FUNNY!!

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[Scorpio]

I can't tell you the number of people that are voting for Obama because hes black or Mccaine because he is white. I mean seriously thats all they have to say about it and they dont care about anything else.

Whats even sadder is I know these people and some are my friends. I've tried my best to encourage them to really look into each man then choose on that. Watch a debate or something no matter how boring it may be and you can pick up on something you agree on.

I'm mixed with black and white. So yeah, when I heard Obama was really in this thing of course I got excited. But that isn't the only reason I'm voting for him. I really wouldn't consider it a reason anymore because I cared enough to actually look into each man because I realized my judgment wasn't right.

I doubt theres anyone here like that but for the sake of it, if this applies to you, I encourage you to find other, better reasons. And if you know people like this encourage them.

Theres nothing wrong with being excited or supporting your race. But at the end of the day, when you do vote that should be the least of your concerns. And I also couldn't tell you the amount of people that say "Go Obama" or "Go Mccaine" and never bothered to register to vote. Thats whats really sad I guess.

[mello1]

I'm not a "Hillary" supporter. I would have preferred her, simply because I like her more, but I don't actually support any politician or candidate. I'm not in to politics for the most part. Their stance was and is basically identical either way. And I'm fully aware that niether one is fully honest or is intending to keep their word on every issue. Obama has attained a sort of rock star image, for whatever reason, and people are desperate to get out of the current situation, so they're looking to him as someone who can flip everything overnight. And that's not going to happen. Like I said, I don't expect any sort of radical change from him. And NO, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Why don't you stop trying to be cute and just say what it is you mean. I have no ulterior motive with what I said. I mean just what's there. Every time you disagree with me, you come at me with that patronizing tone, as usual. It's so old its laughable. I don't know why you can't just ignore me. Because that's what I do with you. You can deny you don't have an issue with me all you want, but it's abudently clear that you do.

Then why are you even in this thread if politics is not of interest to you? Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me to comment on things that you clearly state that you aren't interested in.

And yes, Obama does attract large crowds. That's what happens when people in general are hungry for someone to do something to deal with this mess. Most reasoned people have already said, LONG before the primaries were settled that the damage that the Bush Administration has done would take 50 years to correct at best. So tell me something that I don't already know. I don't think people are that blind Nicole.

Also Nicole, I don't have to be cute. You mix up my responsibilities with moderating with my right to discuss matters on this forum with members -- even including you. But if you have such a beef with me personally, PM me and we can discuss it. And I thank you to move that aspect of the discussion off line.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

I've tried that in the past mello, and last time I did, I recieved no response from you. You are being cute because you won't say what it is you meant by "perhaps you like the race bating thats going on right now". I don't know what that's supposed to mean and you won't say.

I'm mildly interested in this race, but politics doesn't take up a large chunk of my time of a daily basis. But I'm allowed to comment on this particular issue if I so desire. All I said was we'll see if he can live up to his hype, because in my view, people are overestimating what he'll be able to do, I could be wrong and if I am, I'll readily admit that, but until then, we'll see. That's all I meant, and you had to start in on me like you always do.

Bush messed things up, that's true superstition, but people also don't realize it was in part Clinton's idel hands in the previous term which set up some of what happened under Bush's watch.

[arXter]

they simply expect him to save the economy and go after the right ppl (terrorists) who are a threat to america and the rest of humanity and punish them for the indescribably horrible devilish crimes. they expect him to solve important domestic issues and make america stand on its feet again.
those would be miracles in and of themselves. expecting that much of the next US president would be naive imo.

as i said quite some time ago here, it's like choosing the lesser of two evils because we're far from getting a candidate that is willing to even change a lot of the backward views that still exist among the masses - instead they give in to those people's notions and speak the words that'll get the candidate their votes. electing Bush for a second term doesn't quite show the best standard of public intelllect.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Right arXter, exactly. Of course I would much rather have Obama in office then McCain. McCain isn't going to help anything. But like you said, expecting all that from Obama is too much and as you also very intelligently pointed out, the real problem lies in the fact that people continue to have the same mind set and perceptions that they've had for a long, long time, backward thinking as you said. And the only way to real change, shifting the way the world works, is to change the way people think and see. I don't see that coming from any politician, especially not anytime soon. But of course I would rather see Obama in office. At least he'll try to start the process of improvement.

[J5master]

there's nothing wrong with preaching as long as it's not idle. I don't think its idle in Obama's case. Getting people riled up and excited about an IMPORTANT election and IMPORTANT issues I definitely don't see as a bad thing.

[browneyedgirl]

At least he'll try to start the process of improvement.
Well, that's the idea here.

I oon't know what kind of people you come in contact with, but anyone who thinks Obama will correct all of America's problems is oblivious to the circumstances surrounding this election. As J5master stated, there's nothing wrong with attracting large crowds and getting them excited about the voting process. America hasn't been in this kind of hole since the Great Depression. Obama's no golden token, but there's a reason why Obama's being hyped the way he is all around the world.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

It's just the general feeling I get from the way people talk about and support Obama. Not unrealistic. When people get desperate, they look to anyone and anywhere for the answers. I think people are forgetting that Obama is a politician, like any other, and while his policies are fine, he isn't really radically different or special from any other politician. I just get the feeling from people that they view him as such.

[mello1]

I've tried that in the past mello, and last time I did, I recieved no response from you. You are being cute because you won't say what it is you meant by "perhaps you like the race bating thats going on right now". I don't know what that's supposed to mean and you won't say.

I'm mildly interested in this race, but politics doesn't take up a large chunk of my time of a daily basis. But I'm allowed to comment on this particular issue if I so desire. All I said was we'll see if he can live up to his hype, because in my view, people are overestimating what he'll be able to do, I could be wrong and if I am, I'll readily admit that, but until then, we'll see. That's all I meant, and you had to start in on me like you always do.

Bush messed things up, that's true superstition, but people also don't realize it was in part Clinton's idel hands in the previous term which set up some of what happened under Bush's watch.

I don't what you are referring to, but like I said before, if you got a beef with me, PM me. That part of this discussion on here ends now.

Also, if you had simply asked me what I meant, I would have been more than happy to tell you instead of what you've been saying. Now are you asking me or what? Let me know.

And while Clinton [Bill, that is], did things on his watch that I didn't agree with, messing up the economy was not one of them.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Did I say he messed up the economy? I asked in my initial response to you and you've failed to answer.

[mello1]

those would be miracles in and of themselves. expecting that much of the next US president would be naive imo.

as i said quite some time ago here, it's like choosing the lesser of two evils because we're far from getting a candidate that is willing to even change a lot of the backward views that still exist among the masses - instead they give in to those people's notions and speak the words that'll get the candidate their votes. electing Bush for a second term doesn't quite show the best standard of public intelllect.

I agree with this arxter (but not necessarily the 'lesser evils' part). The market forces cannot be fixed with a govt solution now. It has to play itself out unfortunately until it stabilizes. The bail out package was never going to stop the inevitable, but it doesn't help when Congressmen were coerced into going along with this bill the second time around, lest federal marital law would be enacted.

The problem with 'electing Bush the second time', is that he wasn't really elected in 2000 and there is now clear evidence that Ohio was sufficiently tampered with to affect the 2004 outcome. Voting reliability is still a huge problem here and people still fail to comprehend the problems. The best thing we've done was to start early voting and people are voting early in droves as to avoid waiting until Nov. 4th and discover that they have been illegally thrown off the voting rolls and there is nothing they can do about it.

Lastly, a lot of Republicans are truly disgusted with their own party and how it's been commandeered by fringe elements. I point you to this ed opt piece by David Brooks that is very revealing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/opinion/10brooks.html

You can also read some of the enomous comments this piece generated. While I don't agree with some of the statements he made, particularly the one about Palin, I do agree with the overall sentiment that the GOP has reduced itself to social warfare issues, while demonizing any analytical thought.

I think people have now seen the consequences of their collective uninvolvement when you allow such fringe factors to rule the day.

[mello1]

Did I say he messed up the economy? I asked in my initial response to you and you've failed to answer.

No, you didn't ask Nicole.


I don't like at all what you're insinuating with me. You obviously have an issue with me, which apparently you can't let go of, you always have, and frankly, I don't give a damn anymore. I don't even know what that statement of yours above is supposed to mean. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

That is what you said. But since you just won't say, 'Hey Mello1, what did you mean by that?', I will tell you anyway:

What I meant Nicole is that based on what we have to choose from: McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden, the time for lamenting Obama's 'rockstar' status or whether is he selling more than he can deliver is irrelevent. The McCain/Palin ticket is simply unacceptable because they are resorting to fearmonging tactics that can get someone killed. It is illegal to even joke about assassinating a Presidental candidate or the President of the United States. By McCain and especially Palin not moving to immediately state unequivocally that talk like that is illegal and will not be tolerated, they have tacitly stroke the flames of fringes beyond the fringe who think that it is the green light to do something tragic.

That is what I meant and if you just had simply asked me without all of the drama about what I 'do to you', you would have save yourself unnecessary anguish.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

I couldn't have been more direct, mello, when I said, in my first sentence, which you've convinently left out, "What the fu*k are you talking about?" I asked you pretty direct.

And I still have no idea what you've said above has to do with what I said. All I stated was that Obama is being over hyped and I doubt he can live up to it. It was a simple statement which said nothing more then it appeared to. You could have saved yourself a lot of unneeded anguish if you had just simply said "I don't think it's important as to whether Obama can live up to his hype given the alternative", but instead you tried to be clever and patronizing.

[mello1]

I couldn't have been more direct, mello, when I said, in my first sentence, which you've convinently left out, "What the fu*k are you talking about?" I asked you pretty direct.

And I still have no idea what you've said above has to do with what I said. All I stated was that Obama is being over hyped and I doubt he can live up to it. It was a simple statement which said nothing more then it appeared to. You could have saved yourself a lot of unneeded anguish if you had just simply said "I don't think it's important as to whether Obama can live up to his hype given the alternative", but instead you tried to be clever and patronizing.

That's not asking Nicole. And since I cannot be more clear, then there is nothing more I can do to explain it to you.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Yeah, that's asking. It's just very blunt, because you pissed me off.

[mello1]

Yeah, that's asking. It's just very blunt, because you pissed me off.

No, it was being disrespectful and you don't get far by doing that. Now this is the last time I'm going to say this to you and please do not respond. If you want to discuss personal matters with me, please do so via PM.

Thank you.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

lol, hystarical. Anyway, like I said, Obama is going to win, I don't think anyone has to worry about that. Unless our good ol' electoral college fails us once again. Gotta love the US voting system.

[Momma Shannon]

lol, hystarical. Anyway, like I said, Obama is going to win, I don't think anyone has to worry about that. Unless our good ol' electoral college fails us once again. Gotta love the US voting system.

In my personal opinion that wouldn't be to America's advantage. McCain may not be the best choice but I don't believe Obama has any idea of what the hell he's doing. He's a yes man with celebrity status and that makes him as dangerous as McCain.

[Superstition]

telecting Bush for a second term doesn't quite show the best standard of public intelllect.

True, but in 2000, we actually didn't elect Bush, the majority of voters elected Gore and it was the Supreme Court's decision that prevented Gore from taking office. In 2004, Bush wasn't seen as quite the joke that he is today and I think people were hoping he'd finish what he'd started. The Iraq war had only been going on for about a year at that point.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

In my personal opinion that wouldn't be to America's advantage. McCain may not be the best choice but I don't believe Obama has any idea of what the hell he's doing. He's a yes man with celebrity status and that makes him as dangerous as McCain.

Well I'm not big on Obama either. It remains to be seen, I suppose, whether or not he's going to be a puppet or actually stand by his promises.

The popular vote itself doesn't actually elect the president. The electoral college does. So while a candidate can lose the popular vote, they can still get in to office if the electoral college votes are in their favor.

[friend]

why do you consider obama a yes man?

[Momma Shannon]

why do you consider obama a yes man?

Just by watching him. He says what he thinks people want to hear without listening to what is being said. He's coached. And when he doesn't know he agrees with people around him or changes the subject. He was directly asked a question awhile back and instead of answering it he said "Oh the people don't want to hear about that they want to know about..." He didn't have the answers for the question and rather than say he wasn't up to speed on that particular issue (which would have earned him respect) he decided to inform the public of what he wanted them to talk about. If we didn't want to know that answer we wouldn't have asked the question. He gives off the impression of ignorance. Or rather the impression that he thinks we are ignorant. But he covers it well you have to give him that. He plays the part he's been given.

[mello1]

In my personal opinion that wouldn't be to America's advantage. McCain may not be the best choice but I don't believe Obama has any idea of what the hell he's doing. He's a yes man with celebrity status and that makes him as dangerous as McCain.
Well I certainly don't agree with that. Obama and Clinton's (Hillary, that is), policies were practically dead on the same with different tweaks. There is no way that Obama is the same as McCain. McCain has made it clear that he plans war with Iran and that would lead others to jump in it, unlike the Iraq situation. McCain has clearly flip flopped on how he would deal with the economy to the point that his position is no longer clear.

And if anything happens to McCain while he is in office, Palin would be President and at this point, she makes Chency look like a boy scout.

No thank you for worse than what we have right now.

[MJJC Moderator]

Well I certainly don't agree with that. Obama and Clinton's (Hillary, that is), policies were practically dead on the same with different tweaks. There is no way that Obama is the same as McCain. McCain has made it clear that he plans war with Iran and that would lead others to jump in it, unlike the Iraq situation. McCain has clearly flip flopped on how he would deal with the economy to the point that his position is no longer clear.

And if anything happens to McCain while he is in office, Palin would be President and at this point, she makes Chency look like a boy scout.

No thank you for worse than what we have right now.

Agreed. The person who is the most dangerous out of the candidates is Palin. Obama's and Clinton policies were very similar so for anyone to imply he is a blank slate is believing the PR that was spun against him. McCain still had a modicum of respect from me until the latest stunts (race baiting/making their crowds turn into a lynch mob/injecting the terrorist card and fear card) that he pulled when he started failing in the polls.

[mello1]

Also, let me share this with you guys. These comments are now coming from Republicans, as well as Democrats -- further expounding on why this is not the same:

Former McCain Campaign Chair John Weaver (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14445.html):



John Weaver, McCain’s former top strategist, said top Republicans have a responsibility to temper this behavior.


“People need to understand, for moral reasons and the protection of our civil society, the differences with Sen. Obama are ideological, based on clear differences on policy and a lack of experience compared to Sen. McCain,” Weaver said. “And from a purely practical political vantage point, please find me a swing voter, an undecided independent, or a torn female voter that finds an angry mob mentality attractive.”



“Sen. Obama is a classic liberal with an outdated economic agenda. We should take that agenda on in a robust manner. As a party we should not and must not stand by as the small amount of haters in our society question whether he is as American as the rest of us. Shame on them and shame on us if we allow this to take hold.”


Republican advisor David Gergen (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0810/09/acd.01.html):



COOPER: There’s also the question of ruling after this, and bringing the country together. It’s going to be all the more harder to do that whoever wins with all this anger out there.


GERGEN: This—I think one of the most striking things we’ve seen now in the last few day. We’ve seen it in a Palin rally. We saw it at the McCain rally today. And we saw it to a considerable degree during the rescue package legislation. There is this free floating sort of whipping around anger that could really lead to some violence. I think we’re not far from that.


COOPER: Really?


GERGEN: I think it’s so—well, I really worry when we get people—when you get the kind of rhetoric that you’re getting at these rallies now. I think it’s really imperative that the candidates try to calm people down. And that’s why I’ve argued not only because of the question of the ugliness of it.


Republican Frank Schaeffer (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.mccain10oct10,0,7557571.story):



John McCain: If your campaign does not stop equating Sen. Barack Obama (http://www.baltimoresun.com/topic/politics/government/barack-obama-PEPLT007408.topic) with terrorism, questioning his patriotism and portraying Mr. Obama as "not one of us," I accuse you of deliberately feeding the most unhinged elements of our society the red meat of hate, and therefore of potentially instigating violence.


[snip]


Stop! Think! Your rallies are beginning to look, sound, feel and smell like lynch mobs.


John McCain, you're walking a perilous line. If you do not stand up for all that is good in America and declare that Senator Obama is a patriot, fit for office, and denounce your hate-filled supporters when they scream out "Terrorist" or "Kill him," history will hold you responsible for all that follows.


John McCain and Sarah Palin, you are playing with fire, and you know it. You are unleashing the monster of American hatred and prejudice, to the peril of all of us. You are doing this in wartime. You are doing this as our economy collapses. You are doing this in a country with a history of assassinations.


Change the atmosphere of your campaign. Talk about the issues at hand. Make your case. But stop stirring up the lunatic fringe of haters, or risk suffering the judgment of history and the loathing of the American people - forever.


We will hold you responsible.


Retiring GOP Congressman Ray LaHood (http://www.wbbm780.com/LaHood--Palin-Should-Stop-It/3115013):



LaHood supports the McCain ticket, but doesn't like what he sees at some of the McCain-Palin rallies: When Barack Obama's name has been mentioned by Sarah Palin, there are shouts of "terrorist," and LaHood says Palin should put a stop to it.


"Look it. This doesn't befit the office that she's running for. And frankly, people don't like it."


Congressman LaHood says it could backfire on the Republican ticket.


He says the names that Obama is being called, "Certainly don't reflect the character of the man."


Ta-Nehishi Coates (http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/the_unthinkable_1.php):



When the McCain campaign cast the spell of diabolical jingoism, they have no idea of the forces they are toying with. We remember Martin Luther King's murder as a sad and tragic event. Less remembered is the fact that ground-work for King's murder was seeded, not simply by rank white supremacy, but by people who slandered King as a communist.


This was not some notion bandied about by conspiracy theorist, but an accusation proffered by men who were the pillars (http://www.frostillustrated.com/full.php?sid=1384) of the modern Republican Party:



As late as 1964, Falwell was attacking the 1964 Civil Rights Act as "civil wrongs" legislation. He questioned "the sincerity and intentions of some civil rights leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., James Farmer, and others, who are known to have left-wing associations." Falwell charged, "It is very obvious that the Communists, as they do in all parts of the world, are taking advantage of a tense situation in our land, and are exploiting every incident to bring about violence and bloodshed."



Falwell was not alone (http://www.sacobserver.com/government/070808/jesse_helms_racial_legacy.shtml). These men didn't kill Martin Luther King, but they contributed to an atmosphere of nationalism, white supremacy and cheap unreflective patriotism that ultimately got a lot of people killed. Confronted with Aparthied South Africa, men like Helms and Falwell used the same "communist" defense. While Mandella wasted away in prison, they dismissed the whole thing as a communist plot.



Let me be clear--This is the ghost that McCain Campaign is summoning. This is the Ring Of Power that they want to wield. The Muslim charge, the "Hussein" thing is nothing more than today's red-baiting, and it is what it was then--a cover for racists.

David Frum (http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NmE5Njk3NDBlZGZhYWU4YTMyMGFkNjYyNjJmNzYwNTg):



Those who press this Ayers line of attack are whipping Republicans and conservatives into a fury that is going to be very hard to calm after November. Is it really wise to send conservatives into opposition in a mood of disdain and fury for a man who may well be the next president of the United States, incidentally the first African-American president? Anger is a very bad political adviser. It can isolate us and push us to the extremes at exactly the moment when we ought to be rebuilding, rethinking, regrouping and recruiting.


Joe Klein (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/better_to_be.html):



But seriously, folks, I'm beginning to worry about the level of craziness on the Republican side, the over-the-top, stampede-the-crowd statements by everyone from McCain on down, the vehemence of the crowds that McCain and Palin are drawing with people shouting "Kill him" and "He's a terrorist" and "Off with his head."


Watch the tape of the guy screaming, "He's a terrorist!" McCain seems to shudder at that, he rolls his eyes... and I thought for a moment he'd admonish the man. But he didn't. And now he's selling the Ayres non-story full-time. Yes, yes, it's all he has. True enough: he no longer has his honor. But we are on the edge of some real serious craziness here and it would be nice if McCain did the right thing and told his more bloodthirsty supporters to go home and take a cold shower.


Digby (http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/slow-release-poison-by-digby-this-is.html):



We are entering a turbulent period in our country. Validating a bogus accusation that your political rival is a terrorist in our current environment is the most irresponsible thing I've seen a campaign do in many a year. They know they are very likely going to lose this election. And McCain certainly knows that the main reason he is losing is because of the dramatic failures of fellow failed Republican George W. Bush. But even knowing that his candidacy was always very likely doomed is not stopping him from releasing this poison into the bloodstream of the body politic, a poison which will be with us for a long time to come. I guess that's what McCain means when he says that Americans should fight for a cause greater than themselves. That cause, evidently, is him.


Andrew Sullivan (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-dangerous-p.html):



McCain and Palin have decided to stoke this rage, to foment it, to encourage paranoid notions that somehow Obama is a "secret" terrorist or Islamist or foreigner. These are base emotions in both sense of the word.


But they are also very very dangerous. This is a moment of maximal physical danger for the young Democratic nominee. And McCain is playing with fire. If he really wants to put country first, he will attack Obama on his policies - not on these inflammatory, personal, creepy grounds. This is getting close to the atmosphere stoked by the Israeli far right before the assassination of Rabin.


For God's sake, McCain, stop it. For once in this campaign, put your country first.


John Sweeney (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/10/mccain-defends-his-rabid_n_133710.html):



Sen. John McCain, Gov. Sarah Palin and the leadership of the Republican party have a fundamental moral responsibility to denounce the violent rhetoric that has pervaded recent McCain and Palin political rallies. When rally attendees shout out such attacks as "terrorist" or "kill him" about Sen. Barack Obama, when they are cheered on by crowds incited by McCain-Palin rhetoric -- it is chilling that McCain and Palin do nothing to object.


Paul Krugman (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/not-about-the-financial-crisis/):



The crisis isn’t the only scary thing going on. Something very ugly is taking shape on the political scene: as McCain’s chances fade, the crowds at his rallies are, by all accounts, increasingly gripped by insane rage. It’s not just a mob phenomenon — it’s visible in the right-wing media, and to some extent in the speeches of McCain and Palin.


[snip]


What happens when Obama is elected? It will be even worse than it was in the Clinton years. For sure there will be crazy accusations, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see some violence.


Greg Sargent (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/note_to_news_orgs_mccain_and_p.php):



To my knowledge neither McCain nor Palin has uttered a single syllable of protest as their crowds indulged their fear and loathing of Obama. It's hard to overstate how reckless and lacking in leadership this is -- and how dangerous this is, too.


[snip]


But neither McCain nor Palin has taken a single step to do anything like that. Surely that's the big story here.


http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/102538/

[Momma Shannon]

Well I certainly don't agree with that. Obama and Clinton's (Hillary, that is), policies were practically dead on the same with different tweaks. There is no way that Obama is the same as McCain. McCain has made it clear that he plans war with Iran and that would lead others to jump in it, unlike the Iraq situation. McCain has clearly flip flopped on how he would deal with the economy to the point that his position is no longer clear.

And if anything happens to McCain while he is in office, Palin would be President and at this point, she makes Chency look like a boy scout.

No thank you for worse than what we have right now.

I just don't see where either one of them are going to benefit me - the lowly person who works hard and constantly gets F'd over by the government and big business.

Mello you posted a book :lol: Gotta take a minute to read it :yes:

[L.J]

A couple of things I wanna respond to :lol:

Firstly to Shannon, yeah Obama comes across as a yes man, but that's what all good politicians do they say yes to everything and everyone to make them feel their idea has been taken on board... but it doesn't mean that yes he will do all the things he says yes to :lol: that's just politics. Plus no one likes to be told No... you say No after you've gotten their vote.

out of the comments mello just posted this one:

John McCain and Sarah Palin, you are playing with fire, and you know it. You are unleashing the monster of American hatred and prejudice, to the peril of all of us. You are doing this in wartime. You are doing this as our economy collapses. You are doing this in a country with a history of assassinations.

I agree with this one wholeheartedly. The monster is being unleashed and it's disgusting and I'm waiting for someone to tell me the difference between those people in the crowds chanting nigger with their death threats VS people in the middle east getting ready to stone a person to death... cause from where I'm sitting both acts are barbaric.
I'm thankful we've got nothing like this in our elections :ermm:

[mello1]

I just don't see where either one of them are going to benefit me - the lowly person who works hard and constantly gets F'd over by the government and big business.

Mello you posted a book :lol: Gotta take a minute to read it :yes:

Trust me, I work just as hard and has just as much to lose as anybody else in America.

But I do think there needs to be some calming. David Brooks was correct in that we can't reduce ourselves to wedge issues and social warfare; we lose our ability to reason and act on emotion...

...and as we all know that has consequences -- intended and unintended...

Besides, as I said to Arx... the markets are on their own. I won't even open my IRA report....nope! You can't make me! :tease::tease::tease:

[Superstition]

I just don't see where either one of them are going to benefit me - the lowly person who works hard and constantly gets F'd over by the government and big business.

Mello you posted a book :lol: Gotta take a minute to read it :yes:

He's going to lower your taxes, for one, and better regulate insurance companies to make it more affordable and allow you go across state lines for better insurance packages. McCain wanted to help make insurance better too, but he wanted to keep everyone's taxes the same and Obama wants to lower them.

Also, I know every president says they want to lower taxes, but I believe it to be true in Barack's case. He has said CLEARLY that if you make less thatn $250,000, you will pay lower taxes. That has been a huge selling point and one he will almost certainly be obligated to back up. I also think he's going to raise the economy stimulant checks to higher amounts. Maybe not as much as McCain wanted to since we'll be paying lower taxes, but we'll get more than the $600 most got back this past year.

And I truly believe he's going to do what Bush and the right so far seem reluctant to do, and that's set a timetable and goals for the Iraqi government so we can start reall pull-out of troops.

Whether these things will happen remains to be seen, but I truly believe that Obama cannot and will not fall short on those things.

[Soso Deaf]

no matter who we have as a president, rights willbe taken away, either gun rights or a woman's right to choose, we'll still have a struggling economy, and the war will still be nonsense.

both sides lie, at least the dems pretend to like us and act like we have something in common w/ them.

universal health care, an end to this 'war', and some answers and justice for those dealing w/ the shady mortgage companies would be ideal...but i don't reckon it'llhappen....

if u don't lik ewhat's going on now, then mccain ain't the answer cuz he voted the same as bush 90% of the time

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Hey, I'd rather have any democrate than a republican. Because like you said Katie, it'll just stay exactly the same if McCain gets in, which I doubt he will. But they both suck, essentially, lol. Like arXter said, the lesser of two evils in the case of politics. I just wouldn't expect all that much "change" from Obama, seriously. Let's be realistic. Until people start to change the way they think, things won't shift hardly at all. And I always say its not politicians who can get people to change the way they see the world. They aren't that important or infulential in the big picture.

[L.J]

Well Whoopi said nto to expect too much change either because it could 50 years for the US to fix all the rubbish Bush got em into. I say she's right and I say Whoopi for president! :D

But I don't think there are many people voting for Obama just on the "Change" slogan anyway.
Same as I don't think there are many people voting for McCain because he's a maverick

[LindaC781]

John McCain. A Firecracker ready to go off.. NOT a good thing for the US.

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MFIXwSmNzUg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

Sarah Palin - a DISGRACE to all of us THINKING WOMEN!!
She makes DAN QUAYLE look like a TOWERING INTELLECTUAL. If you don't know who Dan Quayle is, I suggest you look for him on Youtube...

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5Q9wucddl_Y&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Well Whoopi said nto to expect too much change either because it could 50 years for the US to fix all the rubbish Bush got em into. I say she's right and I say Whoopi for president! :D

But I don't think there are many people voting for Obama just on the "Change" slogan anyway.
Same as I don't think there are many people voting for McCain because he's a maverick

Yeah, Whoopie for President! She's smarter then all of em'.

[Soso Deaf]

haha didn't he get called out? he said the us was fine at like 9 in th emorning and before noon the very same day said the us was in a crisis...look, dude runs my state so i think he's ok BUT he too damn old....if he dies, that crazy woman will be the prez...

and i wish obama chose someone else as his vp...cuz biden is boring

[browneyedgirl]

boring
Boring? :bugeyed

He should've chose someone more entertaining when it comes to the economy and foreign relations, like Palin.

[MsMo]

Barack Obama - Black or White Remix

[/URL]<embed wmode="opaque" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PsnXCF82WJE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" allowscriptaccess="never" allownetworking="internal" width="425" height="344">

Barack Obama makes his own weather in the storm

...with a timing that suggests there might really be something
divinely ordained about Mr Obama's political rise after all,
it was a financial storm that struck...

[URL]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4916218.ece?Submitted=true (http://www.youtube.com/v/PsnXCF82WJE&hl=en&fs=1)

[~* White Chocolate *~]

^ I REALLY liked that. Thanks so much for sharing!

[Superstition]

haha didn't he get called out? he said the us was fine at like 9 in th emorning and before noon the very same day said the us was in a crisis...look, dude runs my state so i think he's ok BUT he too damn old....if he dies, that crazy woman will be the prez...

and i wish obama chose someone else as his vp...cuz biden is boring

Actually, he's not boring. He may be appearing that way because he's trying really hard to tone things down and not make any gaffes. He's actually very charismatic and funny.

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XberX_t-WvI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>



Also, John Kerry was a boring guy... shame he didn't get elected too.

[Bob George]

Some new polls have come in from Rasmussen and other reputable sources, so here is a update on the national and state polls....

Obama currently has a 7 point lead in the polls on average. However, the US election is not a national vote. The votes are done state-wide. Each state holds a certain number of electoral votes. If a candidate wins a state, they win all of the electoral votes that state holds. Once a candidate surpasses 270 electoral votes cumulatively, they win the election. So more important than the national polls are the state polls.

Obama has gained some in the very important battleground state of Florida (which holds 27 electoral votes) and now holds a 5% lead over McCain. Obama also leads in the hotly-contested battleground state of Ohio (which holds 20 electoral votes) by 3 percentage points. Colorado remains close but Obama still leads by 4 percentage points on average. Missouri also favors Obama with the Democratic candidate holding on to a 3% lead over Republican opponent McCain. Missouri went to Bush in the last two elections. As did Nevada where Obama is currently leading by 3 percentage points on average.

Speaking of red states turned blue, Obama has a decent lead over McCain in Virginia. Leading by 6-7% in the state's polls. Virginia has voted Republican since 1968. This could be the first time in forty years that the state has voted for a Democratic candidate. Although not quite blue yet, other red states where McCain's numbers are dropping are West Virginia and Georgia. McCain holds a 2% lead over Obama in WV and a 6 percentage point lead in GA.

North Carolina, which hasn't voted for a Democratic candidate since Carter in 1976, is a tie according to most polls. It has alternated between Obama and McCain for the past few weeks. NC holds 15 electoral votes.

With the polls the way they are at the moment, Obama looks like winning well over 300 electoral votes. Much more than the 270 electoral votes needed to win the election. For McCain to win this election he will need to win, in addition to the states where he currently holds a firm lead, all the aforementioned states.

[L.J]

Virginia has voted Republican since 1968. This could be the first time in forty years that the state has voted for a Democratic candidate.

wow that's always interesting when a state changes... it shows you just how big things really are that people are moving out of the comfort zone, or that area has changed demographically

[Scorpio]

That Obama Black or White mix is amazing.

Heres a little comedy to lighten the mood.

McCain Gets BarackRoll'd lol.
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The official Music Video.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/65I0HNvTDH4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/65I0HNvTDH4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Bob George]

lmao, this so funny and freakish.....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vjYniYChX3k&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vjYniYChX3k&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Vote Batman '08!

[arXter]

hey yo it's Mickey!

you're a BUM!

[~* White Chocolate *~]

lmao, this so funny and freakish.....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vjYniYChX3k&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vjYniYChX3k&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Vote Batman '08!

All I have to say is: Wow.

Batman/Robin '08...I mean...Obama/Biden '08.

[QPerth]

Thanks Bob George, I never knew about the States holding votes system before, now a few things make more sense to me. I'm an Australian, but have been so fascinated by this US election, and the system over there has been bewildering at times to say the least, especially how it is not compulsory to vote even! (it is the law you must vote here).

I'm enjoying this thread a lot, thanks to all who contribute!

ps- OBAMA/BIDEN '08 BABY! THERE IS NO OTHER REAL CHOICE!

[L.J]

and looks like the borrowing game is not just for the economics world.... with McCain borrowing Clinton's ideas for the financial crisis.




McCain talks economy with Hillary

On Sept. 24, Hillary Rodham Clinton received a surprise phone call from the man she’s often denounced as an economic know-nothing: John McCain.

This was no social call, even though Clinton likes McCain enough to keeps his photo on the wall of her Senate office. The GOP nominee had already chatted with Bill Clinton about the mortgage crisis and wanted to pick the senator’s brain about her new proposal to have the federal government buy up bad mortgages and renegotiate terms more favorable to homeowners on verge of default.

“McCain said he had been motivated by it, he was very complimentary about what she had proposed and wanted to know more,” said a person with knowledge of the call.

Clinton responded coolly. “She didn’t engage him, she just said, ‘Thank you’ and heard him out.”

Three weeks later, at the town hall debate in Nashville, Tenn., McCain rolled out a $300 billion anti-foreclosure plan that’s similar, if not identical, to Clinton’s — and subsequently credited the concept “to a suggestion that Sen. Hillary Clinton made not that long ago.”

Clinton dropped out of the race four months ago, but her presence looms large at tonight’s final McCain-Obama debate being held, appropriately enough, in her adopted state of New York.

Clinton was arguably the first candidate in either party to grasp the transformative political effect of the economic crisis, and her onetime rivals have been borrowing — liberally — from her policy and rhetorical playbooks.

“Everything in this election is being washed away by this stock market and economic stuff ... and she was the one who came out first with specific policies to deal with this, so she’s clearly having an influence on both of them,” said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

“The reason why she’s so influential is because we never had a primary candidate who won 18 million votes,” said former Bill Clinton adviser Paul Begala, who likened the former first lady’s impact to that of third-party candidate Ross Perot in 1992.


Read more here (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14599.html)

[Bob George]

^ no matter who's elected Hillary is going to see some of her ideas implemented. lol

[~* White Chocolate *~]

Watching the debate...McCain is such an ass! He HATES Obama, you can tell just from how he's looking at Obama. It's disgusting just looking at him. And he's been coming out swinging, and Obama has stayed cool as usual. Oh and McCain nearly started to cry over the fact that Obama aparently never came out against some senator who compared Palin and McCain to a segragation leader. And I was like, "Well, you and Mrs. Palin were saying Obama was palling around with terrorists. What about that bs?" LOL! It's sad. McCain KNOWS his ass is on the line so he has to come out in full attack mode. It's almost pathetic really. I really do not like him.

Obama is rockin' it.

[~* White Chocolate *~]

^ no matter who's elected Hillary is going to see some of her ideas implemented. lol

I know! I was like wow...that's cool. Hehehe.

[~* White Chocolate *~]

McCain just said Palin was a role model to all women. Ummm NO SHE ISN'T! AND NO SHE ISN'T A REFORMER MR. McCAIN!

[mjsgirl4eva]

Watching the debate...McCain is such an ass! He HATES Obama, you can tell just from how he's looking at Obama. It's disgusting just looking at him. And he's been coming out swinging, and Obama has stayed cool as usual. Oh and McCain nearly started to cry over the fact that Obama aparently never came out against some senator who compared Palin and McCain to a segragation leader. And I was like, "Well, you and Mrs. Palin were saying Obama was palling around with terrorists. What about that bs?" LOL! It's sad. McCain KNOWS his ass is on the line so he has to come out in full attack mode. It's almost pathetic really. I really do not like him.

Obama is rockin' it.
i agree he is annoying me

[Bob George]

Australians: The debate should be starting in a matter of minutes on ABC and SBS. Unless you're on daylight savings time. In which case the debate should be on now (and probably half over). If you have Foxtel, the Fox News and CNN channels will probably replay the debate all day. That's what they did for the last three debates.

From the looks of what has been said in this thread so far, it should be very interesting. I knew McCain would come out swinging with a 'got nothing to lose' attitude. He feels he can't win at this point so he's just going to throw a Hail Mary.

[~* White Chocolate *~]

Oh SNAP! Obama just got him on the health care plan...LOL! That was brilliant.

Health coverage under McCain: $5000 and up

McCain's face in response to Obama: Priceless!

[~* White Chocolate *~]

Australians: The debate should be starting in a matter of minutes on ABC and SBS. Unless you're on daylight savings time. In which case the debate should be on now (and probably half over). If you have Foxtel, the Fox News and CNN channels will probably replay the debate all day. That's what they did for the last three debates.

From the looks of what has been said in this thread so far, it should be very interesting. I knew McCain would come out swinging with a 'got nothing to lose' attitude. He feels he can't win at this point so he's just going to throw a Hail Mary.

That's EXACTLY what he's doing! Like I said, it's rather sad and ANNOYING.

He keeps referencing this plumber apparently named Joe whom Obama spoke with and he keeps turning to the camera saying, "You hear that Joe?" "Joe I'm here for you. I'm going to help you out." Crap like that. Maybe not those exact phrases, but dude it's flat out annoying and I think Obama thinks it's annoying.

And the dude says that Roe vs. Wade was a bad decision and that should be in the hands of the state. For a guy who's so anti-government involvement he seemed to not see anything wrong with government getting involved in this one. But it's state's rights...he's a federalist...**rolls eyes** THAT came direct from the horse's mouth as well.

[Justthefacts]

I am stuck at work with a computer with no sound. Tell me what am I missing?

[~* White Chocolate *~]

McCain called Obama a "pro-abortionist" WHICH ISN'T TRUE! He (Obama) just got done explaining his stance and that's what McCain threw out at him. I'm pro-choice, but that does NOT make me pro-abortion. Obama even said no one is "pro-abortion" and that it's a tragic situation, etc. etc. He also mentioned educating children and working on preventing unwanted pregnancies and provided help for women who want to keep their babies. Again, Obama is coming across as articulate and very "cool" and McCain is...well he's just coming across as a jerk. He was saying Obama was being "elequant" (sp?) with his words. Basically he was saying Obama was mixing his words and I think trying to imply some kind of tie to being an elitist or some crap like that. Obama has shown himself to be a highly intelligant man and THAT is the kind of individual we NEED as our president not "Joe six pack". Ugh!

Oh and McCain has been blaming the democrates and Obama for pretty much everything. It's rediculous.

[~* White Chocolate *~]

I feel the sudden urge to slap McCain and wipe that jackass of a grin he's had on his face clean off.

OBAMA/BIDEN '08!

[~* White Chocolate *~]

End of debate...

Obama = Intelligence, level headedness, and leadership

McCain = Attack prone, exaggerrating twisted truths, and being a jackass

Final score from all 3 debates:

Obama: 3
McCain: 0

And that's the way the cookie crumbles.

[Justthefacts]

I assume Barack won?

[~* White Chocolate *~]

OH! And McCain belittled a woman's health exception in regards to abortion. According to him even if the mother's life is at stake, abortion shouldn't be on the table.

Obama said, that it was a sensitive issue and everyone wasn't going to agree. Then he laid out what he thought and so forth.

[~* White Chocolate *~]

I assume Barack won?

Based on the debate I just watched, yes, he did. And even though Andra Mitchell is arguing McCain won and that it was McCain's best debate (hardly), Chris Matthews (a staunch conservative and Republican) said Obama won narrowly based on McCain's attitude. And I FIRMLY believe Andrea M. is a McCain supporter, so she's sticking up for him. **rolls eyes**

[Justthefacts]

She is married to the guy who got us into the trouble we are in now. Allen Greenspan

[~* White Chocolate *~]

^ Now it makes sense.

[Justthefacts]

Right so she is always doing that. When I see her on tv she is doing her best to promp him up

[TillitsGone]

Three cheers for John the Plumber. HIp hip-- :rofl:

[Justthefacts]

Polls are saying Obama won. Well one anyway

[~* White Chocolate *~]

Three cheers for John the Plumber. HIp hip-- :rofl:

Hip Hip- :lol:

LOL! Actually he's Joe the plumber...LOL! And according to Keith Olbermann, who had it as a headline on his show (:lol:), he (Joe) still agrees more with John McCain, and is now in bed. LOL! :rofl:

[~* White Chocolate *~]

And now...NO MORE DEBATES!!! YAY!!!! They're over with! Done! Le fin! WAHOO! LOL! This was the 49th Presidential debate (including the primaries and all that good stuff)...WOW...And all I have to say is THANK GOD THEY'RE OVER! LOL! :lol:

[TillitsGone]

Me too, It's up to us now, truly. We've gone through discussion, stupid scandals, what more do we need? To VOTE obviously. We will get outta bed in a couple o weeks, go outside, turn our heads at people and say ".... votin'. VOTIN'!" :agree:

[Bob George]

OK, so I took some notes while watching the debate.

I think Bob Schieffer did an excellent job as moderator. He asked great questions, he pulled up the candidates when he thought they were dodging the questions and he let the candidates go at it a bit. He only had to tell the candidates their time was up a few times. I thought he did a really great job. This was the best debate of the lot.

I knew McCain would bring up Joe the plumber. But I think it was a mistake on his part because it gave Obama an opportunity to explain why his tax plan will benefit small businesses and he did that very well. But wouldn't you know it, McCain then brought up the idea of wealth redistribution and tried to link Obama to staunch socialism. I don't think he was very successful in doing so. Btw, did McCain mouth BS when Obama said "nobody likes taxes"? lol. I think this first section of the debate about the economy and taxes really outlined a fundamental difference between Obama and McCain. McCain is more sympathetic to the business owner and the corporate leader whereas Obama is more sympathetic to the working man. McCain is more sympathetic to Joe the plumber now who has enough money to start up a business of his own, whereas Obama is more sympathetic to Joe the plumber 10 years ago when he was working hard trying to make the money to one day fulfil the "American dream".

One of the best debate questions was "say it to their face". Schieffer challenged the candidates to say what they have been saying in their campaign ads to their opponent's face. Neither really rose to the challenge which was disappointing. McCain bought up the George Wallace comparison made by John Lewis and boy, talk about fake choke-ups. A lot of Republicans accused Joe Biden of faking to choke up when he talked about the accident in which his wife and daughter died. Which was shameful on their part. But I think maybe now they'll know what a real fake choke-up looks like after seeing John McCain in this debate. He was playing the victim saying how unfair it was that John Lewis compared him to George Wallace and that "everyone is picking on me". But it gave Obama an oppurtunity to explain why John Lewis made that comparison and brought up the fact that at McCain rallies people have been screaming out very hateful things like "Arab", "terrorist", "kill him", "Obama bin Laden" etc. But unlike McCain, Obama doesn't let these things get to him. Another fundamental difference between Obama and McCain. Obama has the ability to remain calm, cool and collected. McCain is a loose cannon.

I think Obama finally put to rest the Ayers issue. Republicans will keep badgering on about it. But at least now those independent and undecided voters know that Ayers has nothing to do with Obama now and when they did have something to do with each-other, Ayers was a professor not a terrorist. He hadn't been engaged in that sort of activity for years and years. They worked on an education reform committee that a lot of respected people from both sides of the aisle were a part of. There's nothing alarming about the Obama-Ayers connection. Obama made an excellent point in saying that "it says more about your campaign than it does about me".

When talking about their running mates, McCain almost endorsed Obama when he said something to the nature of "it's time for a breath of fresh air in Washington". He was talking about Sarah Palin but it's the same thing that's been said about Obama. I'm sure when most people heard McCain say that they thought of Obama because that the kind of language that's been used to describe Obama so many times before.

When Schieffer bought up the issue of health care, McCain's heart must've sunk into his stomach. Because that's his weak point and it is Obama's strong point. He must've known he was about to get owned and owned he was. I literally laughed out loud when McCain asked Obama what the fine would be for small business who failed to supply their employees with health insurance. Obama looked into the camera and said "Joe the plumber, here's your fine... ZERO!" LMAO @ the look on John McCain's face. OWNED!

All in all, it was a very good debate. Best out of the lot. Obama totally owned McCain. McCain looked like a desperate, pathetic, washed-up old man slinging mud at Obama hoping something would stick. Nothing stuck. Obama wiped it away with ease. Obama appeared so poised and in control. Kind of like a President. I think this final debate made it real clear who is ready to be President.

[L.J]

I liked how Obama called Fox news out :rofl: "even fox news... which is rare for me!"

I was like oooh!!! LOL


but as for McCain... he's not a diplomat he's insulting and rude... if he's like that towards his own country men... what's he going to be like towards a leader from a country he doesn't like.. such as North Korea?

[~* White Chocolate *~]

^ LOL! I know! The Fox News Comment made me laugh. :lol:

[~* White Chocolate *~]

I literally laughed out loud when McCain asked Obama what the fine would be for small business who failed to supply their employees with health insurance. Obama looked into the camera and said "Joe the plumber, here's your fine... ZERO!" LMAO @ the look on John McCain's face. OWNED!


LOL! I know! That's why I said, "Priceless!" LOL! It really was. :rofl:

[TillitsGone]

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It's from 2003, but it fits perfectly now. Like the first 120 seconds. :rofl:

[Bob George]

Most of the polls that were released today would have been conducted prior to the debate. And even so, the full effect of the debate probably hasn't begun to show yet. But anyhow, here is the electoral map as it stands at the moment. Obama still looks like winning by a landslide. Do you think once the post-debate polls are released much will change?

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/electoralcollegepost-debate3.jpg

[J5master]

THat map for me is too close for comfort. Blah.

[Chaos]

I know its off topic but when ever I see maccains chubby cheeks I feel tempted to reach into the tv and pull them :lol:

[~* White Chocolate *~]

^ Funny because I always get the urge to slap him up side his balding head. LOL! :lol: I'm not a violent person really.

[J5master]

I'm always reminded of a Lil Bush (Comedy Central) quote: "Why doesn't McCain share the acorns he stores in his cheeks??!" The way Lil Bush said it was just sooo danggg funny lol

[Scorpio]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Mccain get offended when at the debate Obama mentioned the racists and hateful remarks at his rallies and how he really doesn't say or do anything about it. John basically said he does not support those comments and he always makes sure to stop them. He even claims that he has said that it isn't right.

Well today on CNN I saw his rally live. And there was a man that said once again "death to Obama" and what did John do? Nothing. He simply put his hand up and said "seriously folks i need to talk seriously to you". Now I won't cal him anything. But I will say that he did not awknolwedge that person like he claim he does, and he did not say "no don't say that its wrong". I just thought it was pretty interesting. And once again makes you question his character.

[KOPV]

I have a few questions that my wife and I are trying to figure out.. ABOUT REGISTERING TO VOTE..

We currently live in Arizona, and plan to move to California in the near future. (my wife used to live in Cali)

Our plan was to go to California and establish a drivers licence and some other things, prior to when we actually move there so our residence date would begin earlier. (So college tuition would be cheaper once we get there) Make sence??

Anyways, my wife is afraid to register to vote here in Arizona, because we are thinking maybe the fact she was here to vote, we really were not residence of California at that time.. . get me?

AND, she was thinking since she was registered to vote in cali last election, she could just do a mail in vote.. However, she is going to vote for a different party than she did before, and is not sure if she'll have to update her registeration. If so she does not have a california lisence right now to do that. Otherwise, if she does not have to update it, it should be OK since they still have her old info as a cali. registered voter.

If anyone can help us out, it would be great.. THANKS

[mello1]

I have a few questions that my wife and I are trying to figure out.. ABOUT REGISTERING TO VOTE..

We currently live in Arizona, and plan to move to California in the near future. (my wife used to live in Cali)

Our plan was to go to California and establish a drivers licence and some other things, prior to when we actually move there so our residence date would begin earlier. (So college tuition would be cheaper once we get there) Make sence??

Anyways, my wife is afraid to register to vote here in Arizona, because we are thinking maybe the fact she was here to vote, we really were not residence of California at that time.. . get me?

AND, she was thinking since she was registered to vote in cali last election, she could just do a mail in vote.. However, she is going to vote for a different party than she did before, and is not sure if she'll have to update her registeration. If so she does not have a california lisence right now to do that. Otherwise, if she does not have to update it, it should be OK since they still have her old info as a cali. registered voter.

If anyone can help us out, it would be great.. THANKS

First of all, you need to check with both California and Arizona to see if you can still register to vote. Go to their state website and look for 'elections' or voter registration information.

If your wife is still carrying a California Drivers' License, then she should request an absentee ballot from California. If you guys have licenses in AZ, you should vote in AZ.

But you can find out more from the state's registration offices.

Hope that helps.

[Scorpio]

I found that the registration deadline for Cali is October 20th. Well it must be postmarked no later than that date I should say.

And as stated, they prefer that you vote with your current address. But I just read that the deadline for registration in Arizona was October 6th.

So since she doesn't have her Cali license I would suggest calling and asking because I really don't have a straight answer or even a guess for you. I believe you only need proper ID if you're registering for the first time but I'm not 100% on that. But I've also heard that once you move from the town you live in, your registration is no longer valid. So she may not be able to vote this year is my guess.

[L.J]

McCain's response to most moments in the last debate....

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a278/Rubxqub/McCainCrazy.gif


The moderator should have asked "do either of you take drugs?

mcCain's response would have looked liike this:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/shani21/3086McCainFOX_NEWS.gif

[TillitsGone]

"McCain Crazy" :lmao:

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

McCain did look like he was stressin', lol.

[Bob George]

Coming soon to a theatre near you....

ELECTION 08 - THE MOVIE

Starring Will Smith as Barack Obama....

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/barackobama_willsmith.jpg

Meryl Streep as Hillary Clinton....

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/hillaryclinton_merylstreep.jpg

and of course, Tina Fey as Sarah Palin....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01009/sarah-palin-tina-f_1009438c.jpg

But who will play John McCain, Joe Biden and other characters in the inevitable 2008 Election movie?

lol, just for a bit of fun. Who do you think should play the candidates in a movie? And who should direct it? My guess is Oliver Stone has already started making a movie about the 2008 election.

[TillitsGone]

Wow Barrack... lookin goooood! :thumbsup:

And don't forget that John McCain will be played by....

http://media.robinwilliams.com/non_secure/images/20080905/robinwilliams23/robinwilliams23_640.jpg
ROBIN WILLIAMS Creep. I know he can act but creep.

[TillitsGone]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QGzfYOp34d8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QGzfYOp34d8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

This got me busting out laughing at 5 in da morning, and that's saying something. Sad, actually :crackingup:

[L.J]

Those facial actions :ermm:



I wanted to watch the debate with the worm though... would loved to have seen the women's responses to McCain as he said Palin is a model all women aspire to...... excuse me! I think that statement alone lost him any feminists who would vote for him... cause yes that's right ladies and gentlemen!... us ladies all want to be mindless women who squeeze into some ridiclous model of what a woman should be.. and tough luck if you're one of the 80% + of women who don't look or fit into the uppity skinny soccer mum model.

[L.J]

oh geezz....... anyone see the racisim in the Ohio rally?


“I’m afraid if he wins, the blacks will take over. He’s not a Christian! This is a Christian nation! What is our country gonna end up like?”http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/mccainpalin-supporters-let-their-rac




the blacks will take over? :mello:


oh noes!!! say it isn't so!!! http://209.85.122.85/10700/138/0/e5864/e5864.gif

[browneyedgirl]

Some of these Christians, my gosh, get a reality check. I live in one of the most suburban, conservative areas... you'll never believe all the things I hear. The best, by far, is all their reasons that Obama is the "Anti-Christ" (whatever the hell that is, exactly)

Just to mess around with my neighbors, I go "He probably is. We're doomed. You know what the polls are saying? He's going to win." And their reaction stays like :bugeyed for the rest of the day.

[Justthefacts]

Those people are no Christians. God so loved THE WORLD not white people not black people the world. They are clueless racist. And what you see here are people becoming unhinged they are going crazy Barack Obama might be the next president. If that happens then there is truly nothing black people can't do. Can't hold us back never could anyway and now you definitely can't

[Scorpio]

As if those people didn't already look like clowns this statement is just perfect:

“Obama and his wife, I’m concerned that they could be anti-white. That he might hide that.”

Excuse me? That just shows this country's ignorance because they have never showed or expressed that they could be anything close to that. You can't hide racism and believe me if he was there would be signs of it all over the news by now. Apparently they fail to realize two things. One, that it is John McCain that has the racist followers with their "death to Obama" remarks. Two....and this is a big one right here....his mother is white!

Wow, some people do not think or are too ignorant. Why would he be anti-white when hello, he lived with a white Grandmother that he praises every chance he gets for what she did for him as far as taking care of him.

I'm sorry Mr. McCain supporter, but I'm concerned that you could be anti-black. That you are doing a terrible job hiding that. Please try again.

[mello1]

Coming soon to a theatre near you....

ELECTION 08 - THE MOVIE

Starring Will Smith as Barack Obama....

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/barackobama_willsmith.jpg

Meryl Streep as Hillary Clinton....

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/hillaryclinton_merylstreep.jpg

and of course, Tina Fey as Sarah Palin....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01009/sarah-palin-tina-f_1009438c.jpg

But who will play John McCain, Joe Biden and other characters in the inevitable 2008 Election movie?

lol, just for a bit of fun. Who do you think should play the candidates in a movie? And who should direct it? My guess is Oliver Stone has already started making a movie about the 2008 election.

LOL! That's pretty good. I was thinking about Will Smith in that role...

[mello1]

:doh:
oh geezz....... anyone see the racisim in the Ohio rally?

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/mccainpalin-supporters-let-their-rac




the blacks will take over? :mello:


oh noes!!! say it isn't so!!!

Heh. Those folks probably didn't get the significance of being interviewed by Al Jazeera. They probably have no clue where Al Jazeera is from....:doh:

[mello1]

As if those people didn't already look like clowns this statement is just perfect:

“Obama and his wife, I’m concerned that they could be anti-white. That he might hide that.”

Excuse me? That just shows this country's ignorance because they have never showed or expressed that they could be anything close to that. You can't hide racism and believe me if he was there would be signs of it all over the news by now. Apparently they fail to realize two things. One, that it is John McCain that has the racist followers with their "death to Obama" remarks. Two....and this is a big one right here....his mother is white!

Wow, some people do not think or are too ignorant. Why would he be anti-white when hello, he lived with a white Grandmother that he praises every chance he gets for what she did for him as far as taking care of him.

I'm sorry Mr. McCain supporter, but I'm concerned that you could be anti-black. That you are doing a terrible job hiding that. Please try again.

Yeah, it's kinda hard to be 'anti-White' when you are half-white yourself. I guess Obama is full of half self-hate...

Talk about low-information voters. If they knew who they were giving that interview to, they would have ran that crew off the road.

But the sad thing here is that McCain/Palin has put their ambitions over civility.

At least I think McCain has.

This is Congresswoman Michelle Backman who proclaimed on MSNBC last night that half of the county and all who doesn't agree with her point of view are un-American and unpatriotic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESdA52S4Dbg

[mello1]

A nice UTube video (at least once you get pass the 1:27 mark anyway)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rUAFUoz3jc

[~* White Chocolate *~]

^ That video was both heart breaking, sobering, and full of so much hope...I loved it.

[Naturelle]

oh geezz....... Anyone see the racisim in the ohio rally?

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/mccainpalin-supporters-let-their-rac




the blacks will take over? :mello:


Oh noes!!! Say it isn't so!!! http://209.85.122.85/10700/138/0/e5864/e5864.gif


omg!!!

[iamthriller82]

Obama in 08

[TillitsGone]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/10/17/racist16_400_2.jpg

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/local-gop-group.html


:trish:

[Bob George]

Obama draws 100,000 people to his rally in St. Louis, Missouri.

http://images.politico.com/global/081018_obama_100k.jpg

That's his largest audience ever in the United States, secondly only to the audience of 200,000 that saw him speak in Germany earlier this year. More people turned up to see him speak in St. Louis than the 80,000 that attended his DNC acceptance speech.

Missouri is a battleground state that holds 11 electoral votes. The latest Rasmussen poll has Obama at 52% in Missouri to McCain's 46%. However, Bush won Missouri in the last two election by 7.2% in 2004 and 3.3% in 2000.

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Man, you know Meryl Streep already played Hillary in the Manchurian Candidate, lol.

[Chaos]

Some of these Christians, my gosh, get a reality check. I live in one of the most suburban, conservative areas... you'll never believe all the things I hear. The best, by far, is all their reasons that Obama is the "Anti-Christ" (whatever the hell that is, exactly)

Just to mess around with my neighbors, I go "He probably is. We're doomed. You know what the polls are saying? He's going to win." And their reaction stays like :bugeyed for the rest of the day.
well its true, he is the anti-christ and thats why he is gonna win:ph34r:

[friend]

Colin Powell has finally picked a candidate, and is backing Obama

LOL @ the anti-christ comments, same thing was said about Ronald Wilson Reagan, who it was determined since each of his names came to 6 - that he for sure represented 666 - LOL Gotta love the fundamentalists - NOT!

[Bob George]

Colin Powell endorses Barack Obama

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[LindaC781]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081019/pl_politico/14714

Retired General Colin L. Powell, one of the country's most respected Republicans, stunned both parties on Sunday by strongly endorsing Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) for president on NBC's "Meet the Press" and laying out a blistering, detailed critique of the modern GOP.

Powell said the election of Obama would "electrify the world."

"I think he is a transformational figure," Powell said. "He is a new generation coming ... onto the world stage and on the American stage. And for that reason, I'll be voting for Senator Barack Obama."

[browneyedgirl]

McCain: 'I love being the underdog'

Sen. John McCain said today he's "very happy" with the way his campaign is going, despite his status in the polls. "I love being the underdog," the Republican candidate said. "You know, every time that I've gotten ahead, somehow I've messed it up." Sen. Barack Obama leads McCain by 6 points, according to CNN's latest average of national polls.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/campaign.wrap/index.html

I don't know why he's happy at all, nonetheless being "very happy."

[Naturelle]

McCain: 'I love being the underdog'

Sen. John McCain said today he's "very happy" with the way his campaign is going, despite his status in the polls. "I love being the underdog," the Republican candidate said. "You know, every time that I've gotten ahead, somehow I've messed it up." Sen. Barack Obama leads McCain by 6 points, according to CNN's latest average of national polls.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/campaign.wrap/index.html

I don't know why he's happy at all, nonetheless being "very happy."


He is happy is will not be the president who will have to face and fix our economic mess! duh*

[Victory2004]

Here is the little Palin skit thingy

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/vid...ld-open/773761/ (http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/gov-palin-cold-open/773761/)


The Real Sarah Palin on Weekend Update -- Amy Poehler rapping

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/vid...lin-rap/773781/ (http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/update-palin-rap/773781/)

[MJJC Moderator]

Colin Powell Invokes Image Of Fallen Soldier

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/19/colin-powell-invokes-imag_n_135977.html


Today, Colin Powell officially endorsed Barack Obama for President. But the big news today is that this was not even his most important endorsement of the day. As it turns out, the most important thing endorsed by Colin Powell today was an America that's worth leading and worth fighting for, an America that encapsulates the idea of what some might call a "more perfect union." To that end, Powell invoked a picture to illustrate his point.

"Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no. That's not America. Is there something wrong with a seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing he or she could be president? Yet I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion that he is a Muslim and might have an association with terrorists. This is not the way we should be doing it in America.


I feel particularly strong about this because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo essay about troops who were serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay, was of a mother at Arlington Cemetery and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in, you could see the writing on the headstone, and it gave his awards - Purple Heart, Bronze Star - showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death, he was 20 years old. And then at the very top of the head stone, it didn't have a Christian cross. It didn't have a Star of David. It has a crescent and star of the Islamic faith.

And his name was Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan. And he was an American. He was born in New Jersey. He was fourteen years old at the time of 9/11, and he waited until he could serve his country and he gave his life."

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/44363/original.jpg

This brought me to tears. Bravo, General Powell!

[LindaC781]

Watched SNL last night....Palin was a BORE, but Poehler AND Fey cracked me up totally!

Intro
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/gov-palin-cold-open/773761/

Rap
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/update-palin-rap/773781/

[Victory2004]

Linda I already posted them.

[LindaC781]

Boy are they funny or what?? especially Bullwinkle...LOL

[mello1]

Beautiful.... and poignant.

Powell was very much on point today. The bashing of Americans of Muslim faith must end.

[mello1]

Here is Powell in his follow up interview. Again totally on point, especially about the whole notion of tax policy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_c5bbvmqc

[Moddie777]

Colin Powell's Endorsement of Presidential Candidate Sen. Barak Obama came as no surprise to Washington watcher's. Colin Powell has not been pleased with the Republican Party as far back as Bush's first term which towards the end, Powell step down a little earlier than anticipated and retired. Political analyst have been speculating off and on all year that he would endorse Obama.

The surprise was how far he went on ''Meet the Press" to express his unapproval of how his party was running their campaign. I have only seen clips of it but he all but said from what I can see, that McCain/Pailn campaign was racist against Obama.

[Naturelle]

^ pretty much sums it up.

[L.J]

What a powerful photo... thankyou Allison for posting :flowers:

[Billie The Kid Jean]

Hey,Im from New Zealand( most of you prob want know where it is i assume) which is relatively liberal multi-cultural country. But i would like to say, all these McCain/Palin supporters really confuse me! Do they ACTUALLY believe Obama is a terrorist???or is it just a few? And is your country really as racist as the videos on youtube suggest?its kind of worrying that the most powerfull country in the world has these views in this day n age..

It would be nice to hear from a Republican supporter.

[browneyedgirl]

And is your country really as racist as the videos on youtube suggest?its kind of worrying that the most powerfull country in the world has these views in this day n age..
Right, and that's the problem. It's truly mind-boggling.

Last elections, I registered myself as a republican and voted for Bush. I agreed with most of that stances on the issue, but to be honest, I merely registered republican because of my parents. Not that this is a shot against my parents, but there are always ulterior reasons for voting republican. (i.e.. tax cuts)

You grow up and realize it's all wrong and it's kind of become like an enlightenment for me. To be honest, republicans are too right-winged for me. The whole "we're good Christian people" act is not working.

[KOPV]

just a reminder for everyone to register to vote..


THE CUT OFF DATE!!

[Naturelle]

^^ Thanks!







Obama/Biden "08 :)

[LindaC781]

This is SICK!! And I don't mean that in a GOOD WAY!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/obama_dead_bear

CULLOWHEE, N.C. – Police at Western Carolina University and wildlife officials were investigating the discovery early Monday of a dead bear cub draped with a pair of Barack Obama campaign signs.

Leila Tvedt, associate vice chancellor for public relations, said Monday night that maintenance workers found the 75-pound bear cub shot to death in front of the school's administration building at the entrance to campus. The Obama yard signs were stapled together and placed over the bear's head, Tvedt said.

The bear had been shot in the head, Tvedt said.

"Western Carolina University deplores the inappropriate behavior that has led to this troubling incident," Tvedt said. "We cannot speculate on the motives of the people involved nor who those people might be. Campus police are cooperating fully with authorities to investigate this matter."

[wendy2004]

Going to see Obama tonight. :wild:

I advise all American members who are registered to vote to please take advantage of early voting! That way if there's a small problem with you being able to vote, it gives you a little time to get your problem sorted by election day. Be a part of HISTORY and CHANGE. Seriously. The world needs this. We ALL need this!

[iamthriller82]

I have already sent my ballot in, hope the public votes with me

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

This is SICK!! And I don't mean that in a GOOD WAY!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/obama_dead_bear

CULLOWHEE, N.C. – Police at Western Carolina University and wildlife officials were investigating the discovery early Monday of a dead bear cub draped with a pair of Barack Obama campaign signs.

Leila Tvedt, associate vice chancellor for public relations, said Monday night that maintenance workers found the 75-pound bear cub shot to death in front of the school's administration building at the entrance to campus. The Obama yard signs were stapled together and placed over the bear's head, Tvedt said.

The bear had been shot in the head, Tvedt said.

"Western Carolina University deplores the inappropriate behavior that has led to this troubling incident," Tvedt said. "We cannot speculate on the motives of the people involved nor who those people might be. Campus police are cooperating fully with authorities to investigate this matter."

Bastards.

[L.J]

That's just rotten...

Palin's Qualifications Now Top Concern Over McCain Candidacy (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/21/the-palin-effect-from-bad_n_136711.html)

Two polls released Tuesday provide striking evidence of Palin's transformation over the course of two months from GOP energy boost to major drawback, as the Alaska governor's rising unfavorability ratings have become a critical vulnerability for the McCain campaign.
Palin's qualifications to be president now rank as voters' top concern about John McCain's candidacy - "ahead of continuing President Bush's policies, enacting economic policies that only benefit the rich and keeping too high of a troop presence in Iraq," according to a new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27297013/).
Fifty-five percent of respondents now say Palin is not qualified to serve as president, a five-point jump from the previous NBC/WSJ survey.

more.... (http://http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/21/the-palin-effect-from-bad_n_136711.html)

[browneyedgirl]

Obama leads by nine points

(CNN) — Sen. Barack Obama has his largest lead so far over rival Sen. John McCain, according to CNN’s latest national poll of polls.

Obama leads McCain by nine points in the poll of polls released Tuesday – 51 percent to 42 percent. Seven percent of those surveyed are unsure about their choice for president.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/21/cnn-poll-of-polls-obama-leads-by-nine-points/2/

Not bad, Mr. Obama! :wild:

[Scorpio]

This is SICK!! And I don't mean that in a GOOD WAY!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/obama_dead_bear

CULLOWHEE, N.C. – Police at Western Carolina University and wildlife officials were investigating the discovery early Monday of a dead bear cub draped with a pair of Barack Obama campaign signs.

Leila Tvedt, associate vice chancellor for public relations, said Monday night that maintenance workers found the 75-pound bear cub shot to death in front of the school's administration building at the entrance to campus. The Obama yard signs were stapled together and placed over the bear's head, Tvedt said.

The bear had been shot in the head, Tvedt said.

"Western Carolina University deplores the inappropriate behavior that has led to this troubling incident," Tvedt said. "We cannot speculate on the motives of the people involved nor who those people might be. Campus police are cooperating fully with authorities to investigate this matter."


Wooow. "We can not speculate the motives" well obviously you can't but I think its safe to say what those motives were. Thats just sad and disgusting.

[wendy2004]

Scorpio, it's times like these when ppl sometimes show their true colors. I heard on the radio this morning that in some other town they are passing out 10 dollar bills with Obama's face showing his smile depicted like a watermelon and him having a bucket of chicken on the side. And ppl love to say "oh racism is over in America". Try again.


Anyway, I went to the rally down here yesterday and the buzz was simply amazing. Hillary Clinton wasn't at the rally I went to but Michelle and Barak were enuf. People were squished up against one another and even if we couldn't see him too well, we were content to be able to be there and hear his voice. People were honking their horns up and down the street as we were leaving. It was awesome and inspiring. It was so packed I couldn't get a souvenier going in or coming out. People were everywhere and you sorta got pushed along with the crowd. I guess that's what it must be like to get caught up in one of those MJ mobs? :lol: I will never forget it, that's for sure. Wish I had hung around longer tho cuz I heard Obama stayed long after he spoke. Everyone basically took off right after cuz the Miami Heat had a game next door and we knew traffic was going to be hell...and it was...but it was for a beautiful reason.

[TillitsGone]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/10/17/racist16_400_2.jpg

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/local-gop-group.html


:trish:

Man, it's right here!

[Pua]

I just voted (I'm absentee) but I think I might walk my ballot into a polling place on election day. I was gonna mail it but I'm not taking any chances that it gets lost in the mail.

[KOPV]

for those who have voted all ready.. Anyone feel OK with sharing who you voted for?

[Love.him]

Lucky you! :)


Scorpio, it's times like these when ppl sometimes show their true colors. I heard on the radio this morning that in some other town they are passing out 10 dollar bills with Obama's face showing his smile depicted like a watermelon and him having a bucket of chicken on the side. And ppl love to say "oh racism is over in America". Try again.


Anyway, I went to the rally down here yesterday and the buzz was simply amazing. Hillary Clinton wasn't at the rally I went to but Michelle and Barak were enuf. People were squished up against one another and even if we couldn't see him too well, we were content to be able to be there and hear his voice. People were honking their horns up and down the street as we were leaving. It was awesome and inspiring. It was so packed I couldn't get a souvenier going in or coming out. People were everywhere and you sorta got pushed along with the crowd. I guess that's what it must be like to get caught up in one of those MJ mobs? :lol: I will never forget it, that's for sure. Wish I had hung around longer tho cuz I heard Obama stayed long after he spoke. Everyone basically took off right after cuz the Miami Heat had a game next door and we knew traffic was going to be hell...and it was...but it was for a beautiful reason.

[Pua]

for those who have voted all ready.. Anyone feel OK with sharing who you voted for?

Obama/Biden