Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued) [Archive] - Page 42 - The Michael Jackson Community

Lisha

20-09-2010, 05:19 PM

Hmmm.

Sdeidjs has got me thinking here...

I thought when you said this, MP, you were being silly and joking:

She was most certainly real, but she was transparent, therefore she was never able to be seen or photographed.

But if Sdeidjs is responding with "excellent theory" she must be reading something into this that hadn't occured to me.

How DO you mean this sentence, MP?

It seems, if I'm understanding you correctly, Sdeidjs, plus taking into consideration your follow up post, that you believe "transparent" here refers to her being kept "unseen" intentionally.

Whereas, I was only able to see it as meaning that either MP was pulling our leg and indicating the LITD girl was "ghost-like" and can't be captured on film, or another meaning of transparent for me, is when one has no guile, therefore, is easy to read. But that kind of transparent would not prevent one from getting their physical image caught on film.

Help us out here, MP! (between sniffs, of course, and that runny nose...) What did you actually mean by "transparent"?

EDIT: btw, 8701girl, I wanted to acknowledge what you said here:

Maybe mj was scared on how she would react when he told her how he felt, so decided not to.
...could very possibly be part of what was going on. Didn't we at some point in here suggest that there was something about "her" that maybe he found intimidating? Good insight, 8701girl! :clapping::)

Also, one of the questions on the front burner for us in here to evaluate is "what is/was keeping them apart?"

If they were asking themselves this all along, I wonder if MJ woud have related to these words in the song his sister, Janet Jackson, recently wrote, from the song, Nothing.

Tell me what could the problem be, the past is something I can’t change
It’s a brand new day
Don’t you tell me not right now, I can’t let it go
(I can’t let it go, no I can’t let it go, Oh nooo)

We’ve got to fix this, fix this right this minute
Only pure love can calm the noise
Cus baby when we give pure love
Pure love will never come back to us void...

Sdeidjs

20-09-2010, 06:05 PM

Hmmm.

Sdeidjs has got me thinking here...

I thought when you said this, MP, you were being silly and joking:

But if Sdeidjs is responding with "excellent theory" she must be reading something into this that hadn't occured to me.

How DO you mean this sentence, MP?

It seems, if I'm understanding you correctly, Sdeidjs, plus taking into consideration your follow up post, that
you believe "transparent" here refers to her being kept "unseen" intentionally.

Whereas, I was only able to see it as meaning that either MP was pulling our leg and indicating the LITD girl was "ghost-like" and can't be captured on film, or another meaning of transparent for me, is when one has no guile, therefore, is easy to read. But that kind of transparent would not prevent one from getting their physical image caught on film.

Help us out here, MP! (between sniffs, of course, and that runny nose...) What did you actually mean by "transparent"?

Many moons ago, my nearest and dearest once told me one of many things he found so intriguing about life was the ability to look outside the box...That is what makes an individual so unique and different...For those of US that share these attributes are TRUE VISIONARIES..!

"Therefore Susie, always remember, whatever happens continue to always look outside the box and one day "I KNOW" all your dedication, loyalty, determination will one day make your many hopes and dreams a reality~~~"

As Always

:angel:

Lisha

20-09-2010, 06:49 PM

Many moons ago, my nearest and dearest once told me one of many things he found so intriguing about life was the ability to look outside the box...That is what makes an individual so unique and different...For those of US that share these attributes are TRUE VISIONARIES..!

"Therefore Susie, always remember, whatever happens continue to always look outside the box and one day "I KNOW" all your dedication, loyalty, determination will one day make your many hopes and dreams a reality~~~"

As Always

:angel:

Ahh. I'm not a true visionary; I can hardly picture tomorrow, but I suppose it will come. Your nearest and dearest would be very unimpressed with me, I should think, and probably shake their head at me as well while they were at it. I wouldn't blame 'em.

But I thought your take on what MP said was interesting! Not sure that means you think outside of the box, but it does show you did some good analysing of her words. And I can appreciate that! Thanks for responding, Sdeidjs.

Ashtanga

20-09-2010, 09:10 PM

p.s. Congrats to you on MJ's love for Brazil, Ash!

And yes, Ash, how nice to learn that MJ loves :heart: Brazil!:clapping:Yay!

Thanks! :D

BUT I wish he was back again with his children. :wub: :heart: I wished sooooooooooooo much that happened, but not happened..... :cry: *big sigh*

:bugeyed:bugeyed Hes back!!!!! :lol:
:lol:

It always comes back! :wild: :punk: :shifty:

Asedora

20-09-2010, 10:23 PM

edited

Lisha

20-09-2010, 11:13 PM

Hope you're having a nice day, too, Asedora! :)

There are many other celebs and in this world and none of them were able to hide their realtionships. Michael is no different in this case imo but it is not my point.
You and Ash really do agree on a lot of things. *waves at Ash*

I just wanted to add that I am sure that LITD girl would not attack him or mob him or follow every his step, every his move. I am sure she would not be even any close to that point. She had to be quite opposite imo, ;).
Yeah, maybe so opposite that she took it to the extreme and he wished she could have given in a little bit and came somewhere where he was (Of course, I really don't know that though...I'm just playing off of what we all have talked about lately in here.

He had a God given talent and on top of that he maybe was exposing his sexuality (the second video from Dangerous) at the front of a millions, using it as a very powerful tool to attract just one very special female. It is almost like saying: See what I can do for you? Come to me, I am here for you. :cheeky:

Let me just preface what I say next with a "Lashi and her little opinions, opinions, opinions...:smilerolleyes:" Because I don't take myself and my little opinions all that seriously, and neither should any of you. I'm just one person out of many existing in the world, so who cares? Yet, I will go ahead and give my honest response to what I bolded above.

If Michael Jackson were to use that tool on me it would have been futile. I just recently for the first time rented and saw the Bucharest DVD, and when I came to the parts where he was puttin' on the sex moves it was a big turn off for me. Now that would be if I was sitting at a concert with ANY celebrity performing and affecting being sexy for the crowd...and that would have been my reaction even back in my twenties. Now, I do ADMIRE and RESPECT Michael Jackson for having had such an understanidng on what woud go over with the majority of his audience and how he knew how to play with them, and he seemed to know always just what to do and when. I see that he was a smart, smart man. He impresses me that way. But if he were to try to attract me by doing that sort of thing on stage, he would only succeed in turning me off.

I have a feeling though, if Michael Jackson was standing in front of me in comfy regular clothes and started dancing and moving his body all about in freedom to the music, with no thought-through moves or sexual affectation, he could very well attract me! I love dance. And guys who can dance are awesome. I find that very attractive.

However, back to his LITD girl... no doubt, SHE would be someone who, like the masses, would be one to find his stage sexiness appealing. Good for her! She wouldn't be alone, huh? And probably she would make her man very happy for being like that.

Me, he'd probably want to throttle.

Asedora

20-09-2010, 11:48 PM

edited

Lisha

21-09-2010, 12:51 AM

I'm just going to open this post with saying, sometimes Asedora you say some really smart stuff.

I DO care about you Lashi. Each human being is a little universe. Each person is very important in this world and each human has her/his own unique life path. :huggy:
Aw, sweet of you to say, but I was really just trying to put things in proper perspective and meaning who should care (or get upset by) any one person's opinion? I wasn't trying to put myself down. I'm not sure how many in this world I have value to, but I know that to some I do, especially to God. It is enough. :)

But Michael sexy stage image was sort of very intimate image for nobody to see really.:secret: I know hard to balance such controversy but I hope you understand what I mean.
I'm confused by this. Nobody to see really, but he intentionally does it for all to see? Hurts my head, Asedora...you had better explain more fully. Does this somehow tie into your beliefs in reincarnation? :scratch:

...a combination of sexual firework and innocence at the same time. That's would be be her imo. Just like Michael :cheeky:I think this is very possible. And I believe what is behind those sexual fireworks in Michael, and maybe her as well, is passion...the passion that comes out in his expression and therefore, in his dancing.

But "sexual fireworks" is separate than "affecting" being sexual as part of showmanship; meaning specific moves that you expect to give a "rise." When Michael placed his hand in front of (but did not actually touch, but it gave the illusion that he was to those in the audience) Siedah's um, "lower area"... that was a strategic move to get a rise out of the audience. Did he make the right call? Have you heard the audience's reaction to it in any of the YouTube vids? Michael would say, "I rest my case."

But there are times when he dances with passion that creates a sexual firework of its own when he is not even meaning to be sexy...that is different, and it is inherent in him. I would guess if his LITD girl, (if she shares this same passion), could just be dancing... where he is watching her, her own passionate expression would be a turn on for him, without her doing one thing to come off sexy. It would just come out in her naturally when she dances.

Do you think he would be into her dancing in front of a mixed crowd and do on purpose sexual moves to turn the guys on in the room? I would like to think, no, he wouldn't. But she might attract guys anyway, just by the way she moves her body unaffectedly when she gets into the music, because she dances with passion and abandonment...freedom. If she is like MJ in this way.

One can be passionate and innocent at the same time. With that I agree.

Ashtanga

21-09-2010, 01:03 AM

You and Ash really do agree on a lot of things. *waves at Ash*

I'm not alone on the opposite side. :D :shifty:

Asedora.... :hi:

This thread is going. I'm happy for that. :give_heart: :give_rose:

http://mob88.photobucket.com/albums/k166/chamerazzi/thriller.gif :shifty:

Lisha

21-09-2010, 01:26 AM

This thread is going. I'm happy for that. :give_heart: :give_rose:

:clapping:

Would he attract you doing that sort of thing not on stage?

Whoops, I missed that question. And if I don't handle it just so I'll be in danger of turning bright red! :blush: lol.

No, if you mean I was in a room with Michael Jackson and others, and it wasn't a concert and he did those affected moves...I still would view it as being sexy acting "on purpose." It wouldn't attract me. If you mean if I had an intimate relationship with Michael Jackson, and for me, that would have to be in marriage due to my beliefs, than I feel this way:

Intimacy with another should remain just that, intimate! :D

I'll say this though, if he was sexy acting on purpose with me in a put on way, I'd laugh. If he was sexy just by being natural, then that is another ... intimate ... story...

lol.

(I wish I hadn't gone back and seen that question)

I think I'll turn red again. Don't mind me...:blush:

8701girl

21-09-2010, 01:27 AM

EDIT: btw, 8701girl, I wanted to acknowledge what you said here:

...could very possibly be part of what was going on. Didn't we at some point in here suggest that there was something about "her" that maybe he found intimidating? Good insight, 8701girl! :clapping::)
...

Well guys we have to remember michael was a pretty shy man and i think he found it hard to confront woman bout his feelings & relationships.

Ashtanga

21-09-2010, 01:34 AM

:clapping:
:wub:

No, if you mean I was in a room with Michael Jackson and others, and it wasn't a concert and he did those affected moves...I still would view it as being sexy acting "on purpose." It wouldn't attract me. If you mean if I had an intimate relationship with Michael Jackson, and for me, that would have to be in marriage due to my beliefs, than I feel this way:

Intimacy with another should remain just that, intimate! :D

I'll say this though, if he was sexy acting on purpose with me in a put on way, I'd laugh. If he was sexy just by being natural, then that is another ... intimate ... story...

lol.

(I wish I hadn't gone back and seen that question)

I think I'll turn red again. Don't mind me...:blush:
:o

My thoughts fly away now thinking in Michael .... :shifty: :naughty:

:blush:

Asedora

21-09-2010, 01:39 AM

edited

Lisha

21-09-2010, 01:41 AM

Well guys we have to remember michael was a pretty shy man and i think he found it hard to confront woman bout his feelings & relationships.

True. And about that possibility of his finding her intimidating...this has been perplexing me a little bit.

IF she came around in 2002, or 2003, after being "lost" and away, or if after One More Chance came out, and she (if there is a she) did something to respond to him like come online and join a MJ site or MJ chatroom, or wrote him a letter or two, which I would think would be to let him know she loved him and believed in him and his innocence(considering this was after OMC and is in 2003) and was there now to support him...AND her posts were now communicating these same positive things to him...well, wouldn't he feel affirmed? Then WHY OH WHY would she come off to him as intimidating? He's gettin' all this good feedback from her....all the way since 2002, 2003! It should have been "full speed ahead" for him, a full "green light."

No intimidation. :no: She's being receptive and loving. Go for it, man!

I guess we need MP's post now to understand what was keeping them apart, huh?

(are we moving at too fast of a pace now...is it getting hard to keep up?)

Asedora

21-09-2010, 01:54 AM

edited

Ashtanga

21-09-2010, 02:18 AM

I picture that she might have a very attractive body because God probably created a possibilty for them to meet each other and she had to be an attractive woman for him physically.:scratch:
It's difficult to know why we did not send in our heart, then we do not know what kind of person we'll fall in love. Love is always surprisingly, mysterious and the principal... always happens unexpectedly. We did not choose with whom we fall in love. The true love simply happens...

Well, in the case of Michael (He is special.... :wub:), most important, is the entire conjunct. No use being beautiful, attractive, wonderful and perfect on the outside.... and the inside of her? What would she have to offer for Michael beyond a perfect beauty? And for the children of Michael? She did not would only that only that love Michael..... unconditionally :heart:, but his children too. :heart: :wub: To Michael, she had that to be much more than an attractive woman and beautiful. I believe that Michael would agree me (I'm sure he would choose rigorously that woman.).... or no. (?) lol! :unsure:

:fear:

8701girl

21-09-2010, 02:30 AM

True. And about that posiblitly of his finding her intimadating...this has been perplexing me a little bit.

IF she came around in 2002, or 2003, after being "lost" and away, or if after One More Chance came out, and she (if there is a she) did something to respond to him like come online and join a MJ site or MJ chatroom, or wrote him a letter or two, which I would think would be to let him know she loved him and believed in him and his innocence(considering this was after OMC and is in 2003) and was there now to support him...AND her posts were now communicating these same positive things to him...well, wouldn't he feel affirmed? Then WHY OH WHY would she come off to him as intimidating? He's gettin' all this good feedback from her....all the way since 2002, 2003! It should have been "full speed ahead" for him, a full "green light."

No intimidation. :no: She's being receptive and loving. Go for it, man!

I guess we need MP's post now to understand what was keeping them apart, huh?

(are we moving at too fast of a pace now...is it getting hard to keep up?)

Could it be he found her intimadating cuz he was scared of losing her..?

Sdeidjs

21-09-2010, 02:38 AM

Mr.Michael Jackson truly and wholeheartedly says it B.E.S.T~~~

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<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1LAqcXaVVvM?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1LAqcXaVVvM?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

God Bless

As Always~~~

:angel:

Asedora

21-09-2010, 02:39 AM

edited

MysteriousPhoenix

21-09-2010, 03:08 AM

Sexual fireworks? Wow! A girl really misses a lot when she's off having a "code in her nose"!

Oh, about the "transparent" comment: I meant it literally. Don't read too much into it. lol! I'm a sarcastic person. But my sarcasm has seen me through some very rough times; it's how I get through - a sort of coping mechanism, if you will. And I know, it's the lowest form of comedy, but it works so goooood! lol!

And now onto this ...

True. And about that posiblitly of his finding her intimadating...this has been perplexing me a little bit.

IF she came around in 2002, or 2003, after being "lost" and away, or if after One More Chance came out, and she (if there is a she) did something to respond to him like come online and join a MJ site or MJ chatroom, or wrote him a letter or two, which I would think would be to let him know she loved him and believed in him and his innocence(considering this was after OMC and is in 2003) and was there now to support him...AND her posts were now communicating these same positive things to him...well, wouldn't he feel affirmed? Then WHY OH WHY would she come off to him as intimidating? He's gettin' all this good feedback from her....all the way since 2002, 2003! It should have been "full speed ahead" for him, a full "green light."

No intimidation. :no: She's being receptive and loving. Go for it, man!

I guess we need MP's post now to understand what was keeping them apart, huh?

(are we moving at too fast of a pace now...is it getting hard to keep up?)

Yeah, ya know, I had thought the exact same thing myself. What in thee heck is the intimidation all about!:scratch:I never got that either. I'm sorry. Here is a man who sings about making love all night 'till dawn and then all day again until it turns back night again and beyond. And you mean to tell ME that he would be intimidated by anything? He should fear NOTHING!

So that takes me to this ...

"But when it comes to bein' lucky, he's cursed
But when it comes to lovin' me, he's worst..."
~ Sheryl Crow (The First Cut Is the Deepest)

This type of thing (the intimidation - amongst other crazy things) is precisely why I think their relationship is CURSED! I mean, what kinda crazy thing is that for him to think? If he thought that, it was probably the CURSE making him think silly thougths like that. It was probably the CURSE that made a lot of strange things happen. The question is ... how they gonna fight it? Do they even want to, 'cause you gotta wanna do it!

Oh, I'm sorry for my rant. I need to go back to bed and nurse my code!

Asedora

21-09-2010, 03:22 AM

Sexual fireworks? Wow! A girl really misses a lot when she's off having a "code in her nose"!

Can you explain it to me what do you mean? :unsure: I am not sure, you know..... .

This type of thing (the intimidation - amongst other crazy things) is precisely why I think their relationship is CURSED! I mean, what kinda crazy thing is that for him to think? If he thought that, it was probably the CURSE making him think silly thougths like that. It was probably the CURSE that made a lot of strange things happen. The question is ... how they gonna fight it? Do they even want to, 'cause you gotta wanna do it!

That gets more scary now :shock: Could you pls explain some more about that CURSE theory? I have never thought about it but now I do :blink:

And... I really hope you are feeling better :)

MysteriousPhoenix

21-09-2010, 03:52 AM

Can you explain it to me what do you mean? :unsure: I am not sure, you know..... .

Oh, I'm sorry Asedora. I just meant I have a cold, but I was trying to say it in the cute way that the cartoon character in Lashi's post said it.

That gets more scarry now :shock: Coud you pls explain some more about that CURSE theory? I have never thought about it but now I do :blink:

It IS scary, Asedora. I am beginning to believe that somewhere along the way, MJ's and his LITD's relationship got some kind of curse placed on it. I used to not believe in such things myself. I was always of the belief that those type of things only worked if you believed in them. But when bad things happen over and over and over again, I think it's time to consider that perhaps something deeper (like a curse, spell, hex) is involved. I don't think it's so unusual, though. I mean, look at the position MJ was in. He might have been like a magnet to both good AND bad things. However, it may have been placed on them long ago, if Favoritetune's theory about past lives is true. I don't know, but there definitely seems to be something strange going on. They have just had too much misfortune for it to be nothing.

Oh, but I meant to add: the good news is, curses can be broken.

Asedora

21-09-2010, 04:06 AM

edited

MysteriousPhoenix

21-09-2010, 04:10 AM

That's was very cute one. :lol:

It is scary. I do believe personally that it could be the case too. I cannot say for sure but I know that curse can work trough generations. And because I do believe in reincarnation, I understand what you mean. Some women are just very jealous and they do anything to keep two loving ppl apart.
If it is oK here I have one real story of the artist who was a sex symbol back in my country of origin. Hovewer I am not sure it will fit this thread because I will have to explain it bringing this conversation to some spiritual aspects and my own phycsic abilities had been used too. Becase strange thing happen and his soul asked for an assistance. This is how did find out that it was a curse on him.

I would like to hear more about this artist when you get the chance. I think artists and other people in show business are very vulnerable.

Ashtanga

21-09-2010, 04:19 AM

E
I was talking only about physical attraction, not about anything else. Well, I am sure there had to be many, many other things to match.
It had to be a nice balance of physical and divine in her. Do you know what I mean? Just like him, you know... . Maybe she would not look like a movie star or something but I assume she would have to be good looking woman:) If God created her for him in case if they meet some day, she had to be an attractive one for him.;)
I know you were just talking about physical attraction :yes:... is that my thoughts flew away a little when I read your post (in fact always fly very far when I think of Michael. :lol: :wub:)... sorry. :blush:

:D

http://images.oprah.com/images/tows/200909/20090901/20090901-tows-michael-jackson-young-120x90.jpg
Little Michael!!! :wild: I love this picture. Sooooooooooooo cute!!! :wub: :heart:

It IS scary, Asedora. I am beginning to believe that somewhere along the way, MJ's and his LITD's relationship got some kind of curse placed on it. I used to not believe in such things myself. I was always of the belief that those type of things only worked if you believed in them. But when bad things happen over and over and over again, I think it's time to consider that perhaps something deeper (like a curse, spell, hex) is involved. I don't think it's so unusual, though. I mean, look at the position MJ was in. He might have been like a magnet to both good AND bad things. However, it may have been placed on them long ago, if Favoritetune's theory about past lives is true. I don't know, but there definitely seems to be something strange going on. They have just had too much misfortune for it to be nothing.

Oh, but I meant to add: the good news is, curses can be broken.
Well, there is still another thing: jealousy. Michael was always a man envied by many people.... and other things. You know, he not had good people around him. Not just jealousy, but people with negative energy is very bad... because attracts bad things and still have that feeling: I do not trust all around me. Fear, insecurity...... and many other feelings. I believe that difficult a little things in the life of Michael. And I always believed that he never trusted blindly and 1000% in people around him. There was always doubt and uncertainty. And with women, I also believe it would be no different, sure. :( *big sigh*

:fear:

Rubi

21-09-2010, 04:29 AM

Mr.Michael Jackson truly and wholeheartedly says it B.E.S.T~~~

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1LAqcXaVVvM?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1LAqcXaVVvM?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

God Bless

As Always~~~

:angel:

History, one of my favorite performances from Michael. Forget all the little things, admiring the grandeur of seeing him dance. And he just dance ... and I rediscover life ....
Tks :)

Asedora

21-09-2010, 04:31 AM

edited

8701girl

21-09-2010, 04:50 AM

Mr.Michael Jackson truly and wholeheartedly says it B.E.S.T~~~

<EMBED height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=640 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/usUWkIHVzo8?fs=1&hl=en_US allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

<EMBED height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=480 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/1LAqcXaVVvM?fs=1&hl=en_US allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

God Bless

As Always~~~

:angel:

:punk::punk: Love these songs

Lisha

21-09-2010, 06:30 AM

But my sarcasm has seen me through some very rough times; it's how I get through - a sort of coping mechanism, if you will. And I know, it's the lowest form of comedy, but it works so goooood! lol! I thought that puns were the lowest form of comedy/humor? At least that is what my son tells me ever time I give him a lame pun. But they are just too tempting to pass up. :smilerolleyes: Oh, and please do not devalue sarcasm like that to me again...I don't know what I'd do without it either, MP. I soooo understand.

I'm sorry. Here is a man who sings about making love all night 'till dawn and then all day again until it turns back night again and beyond. And you mean to tell ME that he would be intimidated by anything? He should fear NOTHING!
Why do I think that if AllForMJ reads the way you've worded this, she'll die laughing? :lol: I just think it will tickle her. :) You ARE funny, MP!

Notice I am staying quiet 'bout the whole curse thing? That is because I would have waaaaaaaaaaay too much to say on the subject and I do not want to put you all through it. But I am very interested in your dialoguing about it. I'm listening carefully. Please continue. :angel:

Could it be he found her intimadating cuz he was scared of losing her..?
8701girl, you are really giving some zingers here. Really good insight. It would make sense if God showed him her years ago that she was "the only one for him", that he would build things way up in his mind and heart, and then if it didn't work out, it would be all the more devestating. Well, actually, that pretty much is what the pain in Who Is It is all about, isn't it? Im sure he didn't wish to experience anything like THAT again. Not a fun time for him.

8701girl

21-09-2010, 12:35 PM

8701girl, you are really giving some zingers here. Really good insight. It would make sense if God showed him her years ago that she was "the only one for him", that he would build things way up in his mind and heart, and then if it didn't work out, it would be all the more devestating. Well, actually, that pretty much is what the pain in Who Is It is all about, isn't it? Im sure he didn't wish to experience anything like THAT again. Not a fun time for him.

Glad to hear im giving u some zingers :lol:

Anyway... Your right that is what "who is it" is bout but altough that song is bout the girl cheating on him. I think michael was more afraid bout the media getting in the way more than anything.

I think a deep part felt that he could never find love cuz she may have belived in the whole "hes a nutcase" thing.

MysteriousPhoenix

21-09-2010, 02:42 PM

Well, some strange thing happened and I knew that he is going to die 6 months before he passed. At one point I was thinking that I am crazy :crazy:
After he passed which was shocking for me (a diagnosis was exactly the same what the voice told me), his soul asked me for an assistance after he passed but, I did not provide this kind of help for him cos I had a reason. This is the story. I am trying to be short here. Basically, this is how I did find out that it was a curse on him but I did not know for sure.
Nothing is for sure when a person comes to you in spirit out of the blue.

Two years later there was a program on TV about his friends trying to find out what was behind his death and they found out that it was a curse . The story is: two women were fighting over him. And one went to a special place and placed a curse on him using black magic. I was really in shock myself because I already knew all details about two women he sort of told me being in spirit and it did match what his friends found out 2 years later. So, I do not know what was in Michael’s case… . :( I hope it is not that bad.
It is scary in one way but on another hand these ppl who do it they get it back eventually.

Thanks so much for sharing this, Asedora. It's very interesting. I remember reading not to long ago about some minister or something who was trying to get in contact with some artist who was having trouble after trouble after trouble because she believed someone was cursing him behind his back, but she was unable to reach him. This story sounds similar.

I thought that puns were the lowest form of comedy/humor?

Oh, I like those too!

Why do I think that if AllForMJ reads the way you've worded this, she'll die laughing? :lol: I just think it will tickle her. :) You ARE funny, MP!

Well, I just couldn't understand how someone could be so suggestive with his lyrics and dancing and singing and everything and then turn around and be intimidated by much less from someone else. Maybe WE should be intimidated by HIM! But perhaps its as 8701girl says it is.

Notice I am staying quiet 'bout the whole curse thing? That is because I would have waaaaaaaaaaay too much to say on the subject and I do not want to put you all through it. But I am very interested in your dialoguing about it. I'm listening carefully. Please continue. :angel:

Wow, sounds interesting. Well, if you ever change your mind, and have some info that pertains to this topic, feel free to write away! Oh, and don't forget about those other long and intense posts of yours!

Lily

21-09-2010, 04:14 PM

Reading through the posts I have only one current thought that I'd like to say...

I hope MJ didn't live his life as a "what if", but rather a "what is". Ultimately we are responsible for our own happiness. Carpe diem, life's too short. :)

Asedora

21-09-2010, 04:49 PM

Notice I am staying quiet 'bout the whole curse thing? That is because I would have waaaaaaaaaaay too much to say on the subject and I do not want to put you all through it. But I am very interested in your dialoguing about it. I'm listening carefully. Please continue. :angel:

.

I have much more things to say about it but I prefer not to. I just want to say once again, ppl who do it get it back no matter what. Time it is not an issue here. I hope everybody is having a great day:)

Sdeidjs

21-09-2010, 05:54 PM

I want to take this opportunity to thank you all for your reflective thoughts on one of our favorite threads on MJJC.

I have been extremely busy working on my undergraduate law degree(s), and with employment so I have not had much to post/respond as much as I would like.

Please know, I would love to respond to every post but due to time restraint(s) that cannot be possible. So please forgive me.

RE: With regards to Lashi's response to my Visionary Quote from my Nearest and Dearest...Here is a You Tube Video that will explain what was meant in this MJJC thread on post #10264.

Many moons ago, my nearest and dearest once told me one of many things he found so intriguing about life was the ability to "look outside the box"...That is what makes an individual so unique and different...For those of US that share these attributes are TRUE VISIONARIES..!

"Therefore Susie, always remember, whatever happens continue to always look outside the box and one day "I KNOW" all your dedication, loyalty, determination will one day make your many hopes and dreams a reality~~~"

As Always
:angel:

Without further a do~~~

"A TRUE VISIONARY THAT THOUGHT DIFFERENTLY~~~"

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EI8RTbJLTbY?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EI8RTbJLTbY?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Therefore, "with "God Like" tendencies, throughout Mr.Michael Jackson H.I.S.tory...he continued to encourage, educate the world that despite all the trials and tribulations the world throws our way...WHEN WE BELIEVE IN L.O.V.E...WE "CAN TRULY" HELP HEAL/CHANGE THE WORLD~~~"

GOD BLESS

As Always~~~

:angel:

Strange Blues

21-09-2010, 06:20 PM

Without further a do~~~

"A TRUE VISIONARY THAT THOUGHT DIFFERENTLY~~~"

<object height="385" width="640">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EI8RTbJLTbY?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="640"></object>

Therefore, "with "God Like" tendencies, throughout Mr.Michael Jackson H.I.S.tory...he continued to encourage, educate the world that despite all the trials and tribulations the world throws our way...WHEN WE BELIEVE IN L.O.V.E...WE "CAN TRULY" HELP HEAL/CHANGE THE WORLD~~~"

GOD BLESS

As Always~~~

:angel:

Who's the person speaking in the video? Everything said there is so on point and reflects what an amazing and unique person Michael is/was. He always thought outside the box, making people see things from a new angle, and that's why the world will always remember and miss him.

Lainy

21-09-2010, 10:04 PM

Man I love this thread :wild: :lol:

I'd just like to thank everyone for posting your thoughts. That was so so interesting to read. I'd like to have answered a few posts but my head goes too tired. I'm in nervous yet, tomorrow will be a long day for me. Wish me luck and pray for me.

Please continue doing the great job. I'm reading everything and anxious for reading the next posts. God bless all

8701girl

22-09-2010, 02:39 AM

Asedora

22-09-2010, 03:25 AM

8701girl

22-09-2010, 03:28 AM

MysteriousPhoenix

22-09-2010, 03:53 PM

Good evening everybody :)

Before I go to bed, I made a decision to add some more thoughts into this thread. I was thinking today what if there was such possibility to bring Michael back to life? What if God could do it? This was my a very first wish since he passed.. Then I was asking myself: Will I be able to take it without one little bit of jealousy from my side, even if it was very little if Michael fially did find his LITD? Not even jealousy, just a feeling of sadness that it is not me?
You know, it is hard to avoid such feeling completely because Michael is a dream man for many .. We know him as a man who used to belong to all women in this world.
Well, I can say YES. I could do it.
When you look deep inside your heart you cannot lie to yourself. I always was thinking that “Ghost of jealousy” is the worst feeling ever but it is hard to avoid it sometimes, you know…. We are all just humans …. So, what about you ladies? I know it is a fantasy and Michael is not coming back :( but still…. . Could you do it ? I am not expecting any answers though… . You can ignore me… .

Well, I think a good cure for jealousy is reminding ourselves that with everything we are given there is a PRICE that must be paid, and of course, the greater the gift, the greater the price. Could you imagine the price tag on the gift of being the LITD? Sure, it is a major blessing and honor, but you would first have to ask yourself if you would be able (and willing) to pay the price. Would you be able (and willing) to lose (or pay) everything or almost everything if it really came down to that?

Asedora

22-09-2010, 04:47 PM

Well, I think a good cure for jealousy is reminding ourselves that with everything we are given there is a PRICE that must be paid, and of course, the greater the gift, the greater the price. Could you imagine the price tag on the gift of being the LITD? Sure, it is a major blessing and honor, but you would first have to ask yourself if you would be able (and willing) to pay the price. Would you be able (and willing) to lose (or pay) everything or almost everything if it really came down to that?

This is an interesting point of view. Well, I have to say that it is true what you are saying about the PRICE to be paid, but some fans would pay the highest price they could you know. Some fans will give their lives away for him. Jealousy is more complex thing to deal with imo. It is not the same like paying the highest price and sacrificing. If the person is able to give her live away for Michael, the question is will the same person be able to be truly happy for him being in love with somebody if his choice was not that person? You, ladies still can ignore me. I know these questions are tough.

I hope everybody is doing well today :flowers:

MysteriousPhoenix

22-09-2010, 05:00 PM

This is an interesting point of view. Well, I have to say that it is true what you are saying about the PRICE to be paid, but some fans would pay the highest price they could you know ...

Could be, could be. It's just that I know that real life is not like the fairytales we all grew up with. Even when it comes to one of our favorite fairytales just recently mentioned, Cinderella, she had to be constanly harassed by a wicked step-mother and two wicked step-sisters. I often wondered if that was the price she had to pay to be with the prince. Now make that prince Michael Jackson and you have a Cinderella story on steroids! lol!

Hope you are well, too (and all the rest of the gang)!:flowers:

Asedora

22-09-2010, 05:56 PM

Could be, could be. It's just that I know that real life is not like the fairytales we all grew up with. Even when it comes to one of our favorite fairytales just recently mentioned, Cinderella, she had to be constanly harassed by a wicked step-mother and two wicked step-sisters. I often wondered if that was the price she had to pay to be with the prince. Now make that prince Michael Jackson and you have a Cinderella story on steroids! lol!

Hope you are well, too (and all the rest of the gang)!:flowers:

Definitely! Good catch. LITD being Cinderella had to pay a very high price. It could involve not just a physical death or something, it could be worse. You know sometimes ppl beg for death because live turns to a point when it seems more painful to live than die.

I dunno if the rest of gang would like to read such conversation :scratch:

MysteriousPhoenix

22-09-2010, 06:15 PM

I dunno if the rest of gang would like to read such conversation :scratch:

Of course they would! We are all up for almost anything!:)

A little off topic here, but everytime I see this in your siggy Asedora, I always wonder what exactly was goin' on with MJ here! He looks kinda angry, but I would think Eddie Murphy (the Pharaoh) should be the one angry on account of the fact MJ is tryin' to steal his woman! lol!

http://s44.radikal.ru/i104/0907/a2/44e85a02ef2e.gif

Asedora

22-09-2010, 06:26 PM

Of course they would! We are all up for almost anything!:)

A little off topic here, but everytime I see this in your siggy Asedora, I always wonder what exactly was goin' on with MJ here! He looks kinda angry, but I would think Eddie Murphy (the Pharaoh) should be the one angry on account of the fact MJ is tryin' to steal his woman! lol!

http://s44.radikal.ru/i104/0907/a2/44e85a02ef2e.gif

I am glad you love my siggy.:lol: That's my favorite MJ move ever :lol: He looks angry here, yes. I will agree with you.

Lainy

22-09-2010, 06:35 PM

Well, I think a good cure for jealousy is reminding ourselves that with everything we are given there is a PRICE that must be paid, and of course, the greater the gift, the greater the price. Could you imagine the price tag on the gift of being the LITD? Sure, it is a major blessing and honor, but you would first have to ask yourself if you would be able (and willing) to pay the price. Would you be able (and willing) to lose (or pay) everything or almost everything if it really came down to that?

I understand what do you mean and I agree too. You know, I always thought about how much difficult it would be for the LITD live this love, she would have to pay a high price really and maybe she wasn't prepared for that. I know now it's Ash's turn to say that true love overcomes everything, well I agree with her but we all know things don't work that way in practice. The world is too cruel and life isn't a fairytales. Unfortunately. :(

Definitely! Good catch. LITD being Cinderella had to pay a very high price. It could involve not just a physical death or something, it could be worse. You know sometimes ppl beg for death because live turns to a point when it seems more painful to live than die.

I dunno if the rest of gang would like to read such conversation :scratch:

I'm devouring every thought line here. This is very interesting and unfortunately so true.

Take care ladies. :flowers:

Lisha

22-09-2010, 07:19 PM

The subject of the day, JEALOUSY, huh? Okay.

How would MJ's fans do with his marrying his LITD (if this had taken place prior June 25, 2009)?

First of all I want to mention that early on in this thread this subject was touched on (maybe even a few times), and Moddie, in her compassionate, sensitive and caring way, started a separate thread about this very same question you have brought up to us, Asedora.

I have often thought that one of the "side" purposes of this thread was to make the idea of Michael Jackson-one -day-soon-being-with-someone-he-truly-loves
more palpable to the fans...or at least to the bunch that visit and read here and who love romance.

I still remember a post where AllForMJ addressed this in her own special style...she's good at communicating! And that was she said something like, "One day fans are going to need to accept that the day is coming when MJ's head will be on one pillow and the woman he loves (LITD GIRL!) her head will be on that pillow right next to his." (I'm paraphrasing out of memory, sorry if I got the exact wording wrong).

So what things to think about could help those fans that can't accept it?

I can't begin to tell how important compatibility and having a true connection really is in a marriage relationship. If it is not in place, you could end up feeling very lonely even within the most sacred and intimate relationships ever.

How can any of us, based on knowing this man "from a distance" and never having ever spent long quality time with him, truly know if he would be all that compatible with any of us? In our heads it is very likely we've "created" a Michael Jackson that would be PERFECT for us...but if we are honest with ourselves...we would understand that we do not know that. Not really.

Now if in here, we are believing that God is the one behind MJ and his LITD girl...remember we had talked about maybe he sought out God to find him a love so divine...the right girl for him. If we fans can believe then that God could have done this for MJ, and the LITD girl appears (I'm talking pre-June 2009, of course) in his life...and he marries her, we then should understand that to mean that he is now with the ONE girl who is his MOST suitable match.

That would mean any of us would NOT be his most suitable match. We can love him with all our hearts, we can admire him greatly, we can wish he could be ours, but reasonable thinking would be that he is not meant for us nor are we meant for him (hope it's okay I'm using present tense, it's just coming out that way), and therefore, we really wouldn't be happy with him for long if we were to be in a romantic relationship with him.

So where does that leave a fan? That should alert them that there is someone ELSE still out there that would be more perfect for them than Michael...they just haven't met them yet. Isn't there some song out right now, that repeats that phrase over and over, "I just haven't met her yet!" The guy is going on and on about her and him and all that and then he admits he hasn't even met the girl yet...apparently he thinks it's just a matter of time. Maybe some fans need to hold on to that hope, that the right guy for them is out there...he's a comin'.

Now would MJ understand if he was here how fans are feeling about all this and the fact that they might feel intense jealousy if MJ were to have married someone (his LITD girl), meaning... not them?

Oh yes, MJ would have most definitey understood. Michael knows what it is like to build up something so strong in his head that he could become absolutley devestated when it doesn't seem to be working out for him... when it comes to females (well, maybe not just females when you consider the look on his face during the grammy awards and the album, Bad, was not being recognized like he had hoped...). And he knows about jealousy. We know in the far past he was capable of building some things up about someone. He admitted himself in a phone call with a friend that he realized that his idea of he and Diana Ross belonging together was just in his head. When he was a young man we know in the Encino home he had a whole room dedicated just for her ... full of her photos on the walls. We know that when she came back from another country with the man she met there and planned a wedding for all her friends to attend ...he couldn't do it. He couldn't pretend he was happy about it.

Why would he expect fans to pretend to be happy about he and his LITD girl finally getting together if they were in fact hurting over it?

We've already talked plenty about Who Is It in here. He walked around in a daze for quite awhile, it seems, mumbling such things like "I never was, we never were." He was not doing very well at all accepting the "possibility" that his LITD girl was with someone else.

Now I wish fans would slow up in calling her a "cheater" or view her as some kind of "cold monster" based on this song...because really, based on the lyrics, that is not being said at all...he does not know if she is with some other guy, he is just guessing maybe that could be it, and he doesn't know for sure if she is not returning or never could return his feelings, but something is making him think by some perception of his own, that she no way is or could. He's lost all hope for some reason, and his mind is taking off with full pessimism.

And it is important not to base one's opinion of the LITD girl on the girl in the short film, Who Is It, for that was not MJ's own concept for a short film for that song...he was very busy, off touring for the Dangerous tour, and left that video in the hands of others. He only came for a very short period of time to film his few scenes, and we know he left even a few of those for a stand in. So that is not the interpretation to use when trying to understand the lyrics for Who Is It.

I think it is very possible that we have the song Who Is It, and all it's intense lyrics and emotion and hurt and confusion and exasperation due to a conversation Michael had with Minister Louis Farrakhan. If you have watched the interview tapes with Raffles you would maybe remember Farrakhan speaking of a time when Johnny Cochran was MJ's lawyer (late eighties, I think) and Johnny asked Farrakhan if he might go talk with Michael for he was in a depression. What Farrakhan tells us he said to Michael, was for Michael to put all his "pain" into his art...to get it out that way and let the pain work for good through his creative outlet (paraphrasing from memory again). And I would say that is exactly what MJ did in the song Who Is It. He let the pain all hang out; and it is an amazing, amazing song...one of his best...some might even say his best.

We know that young Michael had trouble with his older brothers all marrying and said (according to the dialog in The Jackson's American Dream) "How can you do this to our fans?!" So MJ has always known how fans look at the one/s that is/are their idol/s and feel romantic feelings for them. He gets that. That is probably why he said the fans who come to my gate are like my dates. I'm sure he often pondered on how he could satisfy this area in his private/personal life and still make everyone happy with the King of Pop. Quite the challenge.

All this to say, is jealousy is part of being human, and it is difficult to fight, and Michael himself has fought with jealousy as well. But it can be worked through in time.

(little by little reading this over to fix typos, I may no longer be queen g, but I am still the typo queen! I'm also good at interchanging words when I go fast...I meant "palpable" not "pliable." gah!)

little bluenes

22-09-2010, 07:46 PM

Good evening everybody :)

Before I go to bed, I made a decision to add some more thoughts into this thread. I was thinking today what if there was such possibility to bring Michael back to life? What if God could do it? This was my a very first wish since he passed.. Then I was asking myself: Will I be able to take it without one little bit of jealousy from my side, even if it was very little if Michael fially did find his LITD? Not even jealousy, just a feeling of sadness that it is not me?
You know, it is hard to avoid such feeling completely because Michael is a dream man for many .. We know him as a man who used to belong to all women in this world.
Well, I can say YES. I could do it.
When you look deep inside your heart you cannot lie to yourself. I always was thinking that “Ghost of jealousy” is the worst feeling ever but it is hard to avoid it sometimes, you know…. We are all just humans …. So, what about you ladies? I know it is a fantasy and Michael is not coming back :( but still…. . Could you do it ? I am not expecting any answers though… . You can ignore me… .

Aww wont ignore you, its a good question though. I've asked myself this once before, if Michael found someone in his life and it wasn't me could i be happy? I don't know about anyone else, but i honestly would be soo happy. I would not feel an ounce of sadness that it wasn't me because someone i love was happy and it would not matter how or why and if it wasn't me- just that there was someone there to keep him smiling. Someone there for him like he needed them to be. I kinda feel as though i'd be at peace, its hard to explain, almost as if i could stop worrying about him all the time if there was someone that was going to be there for him.
I honestly get so upset when i think about LMP's marriage to Michael not working out, i thought they'd be forever after. And then Debbie came and i thought she'd look after him and be there for him. I just sincerely hope there was SOMEONE special in his life before 25th of June.

Lisha

22-09-2010, 09:01 PM

I just want to add that one of the reasons behind Moddie asking that question you've asked Asedora, and why she started that thread to provide a safe place for fans to talk about honestly how they would feel if Michael married "someone" else, was because at that time we in here were all feeling that God was very soon going to bring the LITD girl into MJ's life and they would be able to be together at long last.

It's like Ash has often posted in here "Love is in the air" :heart: :)

We were all sensing that in regards to Michael at that time. Never did we think back in July 2008, when this thread started up, that in little less than a year's time God would decide to take Michael Jackson home to be with Him. Never! Talk about us all having to re-adjust our thinking in here! I know from AllForMJ's posts not long after June 25, 2009, she was really seeking God to make sense of it all.

Good news is she felt God showed her that Michael left this earth happy, because the Lord had graciously brought the LITD girl back into his life and he could feel her love.

We, of course, do not know to what degree, or what that means...still could have been a long distance relationship(online interactions, letters, emails) as Michael was working on things to make it possible for them to marry. But I think sensing this, from God, as AllForMJ sought Him with "Why did this happen like this???" kinda questions... a place of peace came to her, and hopefully, through her posts she has shared in here regarding this, it brought a peace to others who have been struggling with it, too. AllForMJ wanted to assure us in here that when MJ left:

He was happy. :) He had "her" love in his life. :wub:

~ And, of course, I'll add here for you all...

...if there is a "she/her!" lol.

Asedora

22-09-2010, 10:24 PM

Lashi, your post does make a LOOOOT of sense to me and I would agree with most of what was said. :)
But, I can sense that the “Ghost of Jealousy” is not gone with Michael’s passing. Sometimes I read on this board that ppl get jealous even of those YANA girls on stage or somebody else around him for a short time.
I still can sense that with Michael’s passing nothing has changed. It did transform to different form. Some ppl still think that they will be able to reach him somehow. But I noticed that some ppl go too far with that kinda wish “to join him ". That kind of wish I sense based not just on love to him but on something else. It is like saying: I want him and that's it. You know? I see, there is another side of that kind of “sacrificing for love”, some ppl do not realize maybe. I would not call that kind of love "unconditional".

Before he passed it was hard for fans to accept the idea of “MJ's head on one pillow with the woman he loves” as you said. Very true! Now it is different on one way, and still the same on another way, you know.

I saw threads about MJ possible soulmate on this board started by some fans and they lasted just a couple of days or so. Looks like this idea is not that popular either.

And I cannot say better than you said Lashi. I give you 1000% here of my agreement. You said:

So where does that leave a fan? That should alert them that there is someone ELSE still out there that would be more perfect for them than Michael...they just haven't met them yet. Isn't there some song out right now, that repeats that phrase over and over, "I just haven't met her yet!" The guy is going on and on about her and him and all that and then he admits he hasn't even met the girl yet...apparently he thinks it's just a matter of time. Maybe some fans need to hold on to that hope, that the right guy for them is out there...he's a comin'.

I hope I was clear enough for you ladies to understand what I mean. I just decided to bring it up to your attention because I can sense a problem. Ignore me, guys, if you feel that this post does not go with you.

little blueness, thanks you for being honest. :flowers:

8701girl

23-09-2010, 02:42 AM

[QUOTE=little bluenes;2990016
I honestly get so upset when i think about LMP's marriage to Michael not working out, i thought they'd be forever after. And then Debbie came and i thought she'd look after him and be there for him. I just sincerely hope there was SOMEONE special in his life before 25th of June.[/QUOTE]

I was actually kinda glad that it was over, i mean i know michael loved her but i didnt think she loved him enough. him. I know they had so much in common but to me she was more bout doing what everyone else wanted her to do and not her husband.

Her mother kept on interfering and so did alot of ppl telling her he wasnt worth it, when really IMO i think it was the other way around!

Asedora

23-09-2010, 02:58 AM

I was actually kinda glad that it was over, i mean i know michael loved her but i didnt think she loved him enough. him. I know they had so much in common but to me she was more bout doing what everyone else wanted her to do and not her husband.

I always thought that Lisa loved him more than he did. Did you read her last statement after June 25th? I think what she said there was very true. She was saying it on June 26th being under deep emotions of his passing. I am not LMP fan but I respect her more after I have read this statement, the full version which I got not that long ago. Not the one on wiki. I even saved it on my comp in case I would want to read it again for some reason.

8701girl

23-09-2010, 03:03 AM

I always thought that Lisa loved him more than he did. Did you read her last statement after June 25th? I think what she said there was very true. She was saying it on June 26th being under deep emotions of his passing. I am not LMP fan but I respect her more after I have read this statement, the full version which I got not that long ago. Not the one on wiki. I even saved it on my comp in case I would want to read it again for some reason.

IMO she just said that for the sake of saying it. I mean just months earlier she was completely dissing him on the interview she did with diane sawyer

Asedora

23-09-2010, 03:16 AM

IMO she just said that for the sake of saying it. I mean just months earlier she was completely dissing him on the interview she did with diane sawyer

This is what some women do when a man they in deep love with leaves them. What you see in this interview is a mix of unger, jealosy, sarcasm, you name it. It is just hidden from the public eye what behind it imo.

8701girl

23-09-2010, 03:23 AM

This is what some women do when a man they in deep love with leaves them. What you see in this interview is a mix of unger, jealosy, sarcasm, you name it. It is just hidden from the public eye what behind it imo.

Yes but when ur a public figure in the public eye u should keep that in private.

And what i dont understand if she did love him so much why treat him like that?

Asedora

23-09-2010, 03:37 AM

Yes but when ur a public figure in the public eye u should keep that in private.

And what i dont understand if she did love him so much why treat him like that?

She was protecting her public image imo. Nobody wants to look like crap if the guy left you, especially if you a Hollywood girl and you are so famous. Tabloids would make their own stories. So she did it first. imo. It was not nice of her but that was her choice.
I think Michael loved her for while but not the same way as she did.
I have to stop talking abot LMP because the rest of the gang won't approve it.:)

8701girl

23-09-2010, 03:41 AM

She was protecting her public image imo. Nobody wants to look like the guy left you especially if you a Hollywood girl and you are so famous. Tabloids would make their own stories. So she did it first. imo. It was not nice of her but that was her choice.

True.

Lisha

23-09-2010, 04:24 AM

Of course they would! We are all up for almost anything!:)

A little off topic here, but everytime I see this in your siggy Asedora, I always wonder what exactly was goin' on with MJ here! He looks kinda angry, but I would think Eddie Murphy (the Pharaoh) should be the one angry on account of the fact MJ is tryin' to steal his woman! lol!

http://s44.radikal.ru/i104/0907/a2/44e85a02ef2e.gif

^ Is he giving that angryish look to the girl...or to Pharoah? When watching the vid can you really tell which? I personally can't remember. Hmm. I wonder.

Asedora

23-09-2010, 04:46 AM

^ Is he giving that angryish look to the girl...or to Pharoah? When watching the vid can you really tell which? I personally can't remember. Hmm. I wonder.

He looked at Queen. Seems like everybody loves my siggy? :lol:

Lisha

23-09-2010, 06:05 AM

He looked at Queen. Seems like everybody loves my siggy? :lol:

Actually, I have all the signatures and avatars turned off. It was the post of MP's that drew my notice to it.

I think you are right. I just went and watched it again on YouTube. He is boldly just doin' all his looking and talking (singing) to her. I forgot how much I love that vid. It was actually the second MJ short film I had ever seen; the first was The Way You Make Me Feel. Two good ones in a row!

So perhaps it's not so much an angry look then, but one that is showing a certain level of displeasure. I guess he's getting it across he is non too pleased that she went onto another guy when he seems to be thinking they had unfinished business between them.

It wouldn't have made sense for him to give an angry look to Pharoah, for as things unfold, you can clearly see Pharoah is just finding out that this guy, who appeared out of magic dust, knows his queen, and his queen's reaction is confirming it. So it's not like Pharoah intentionally stole MJ's character's woman from him; Pharoah had no idea about this guy up till now, right? Plus, who could be mad at Eddie Murphy...he's so darn likable in this. :)

The whole video has such a fun mood, even though this sort of scenario going on in it is what ended more than one Shakespearean play in tragedy. Haha.

I guess then, all blame goes to the girl. And just the fact that she's sitting there bored in Pharoah's presence is enough for MJ's character to be bold and cocky, knowing his charm, and moves, and his magic is more than ample to remind her what she's been missing. Well...who could really compete with him!?

So did the girl deserve that look do you think?

Are we thinking in here that the song Remember the Time could have anything to do with the LITD girl? Can this be supported by any of the lyrics?

MysteriousPhoenix

23-09-2010, 02:31 PM

Well, frankly, if I saw MJ with someone special I would probably act just like these Justin Bieber fans when they caught him kissing a girl in the back seat of a car. Too bad I'm not 12 though 'cause then it would be more acceptable.:) (Man, it's hard being a pop star! lol!)

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/offbeat/2010/09/22/moos.justin.bieber.cnn

Asedora

23-09-2010, 04:27 PM

Are we thinking in here that the song Remember the Time could have anything to do with the LITD girl? Can this be supported by any of the lyrics?

Lashi you tell us what do you think? I am clueless. The video itself is cool though :)

Well, frankly, if I saw MJ with someone special I would probably act just like these Justin Bieber fans when they caught him kissing a girl in the back seat of a car. Too bad I'm not 12 though 'cause then it would be more acceptable. (Man, it's hard being a pop star! lol!)

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/offbeat...tin.bieber.cnn

Man, it was fun watching this video. Poor girls.:lol: So many broken hearts just from one kiss! Thank you for shearing. There is something strange with this situation. Why it has to be a star? Why not to love next door boy or class mate? I am an old fashion woman. Ignore me :)

Lisha

23-09-2010, 09:05 PM

Asedora

23-09-2010, 10:16 PM

Wow, MP, that video pretty much tells it all.

Asedora, I have always personally felt that the song Remember the Time was not about the LITD girl. But I think maybe in this thread, in the past at some point, it had been suggested the song did have something to do with the LITD girl, but I don't remember it ever being supported by the lyrics. That's why I asked. I like the song a lot. And the video. :) Just curious what others might be thinkin' 'bout it.

The song was dedicated to Diana Ross when it was released. So, take it as it is and just enjoy this "Master Piece" :lol: This is what I do ;)

Girls, you should watch this video, starting from 4.00. The girl who was with Michael in Thriller said that he was flirting with her and she fell in love with him of course :) But she said he told her he has somebody else very important to him and he cannot cross that line.
Interesting... What girl he was talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yuX08ShO0w&feature=related

Lisha

23-09-2010, 10:51 PM

The song was dedicated to Diana Ross when it was released. So, take it as it is and just enjoy this "Master Piece" :lol: This is what I do ;)

Girls, you should watch this video, starting from 4.00. The girl who was with Michael in Thriller said that he was flirting with her and she fell in love with him of course :) But she said he told her he has somebody else very important to him and he cannot cross that line.
Interesting... What girl he was talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yuX08ShO0w&feature=related

I have seen this video I believe before, and if I am remembering correctly, that is not exactly what she said.

Instead, it seems, when she asked Michael why they couldn't date he responded to her in a very "diplomatic" and clever way, and said he knew of someone that was interested in HER on the set, and therefore, he couldn't cross that line.

It's funny, I remember saying that exact line to a guy before who was interested in dating me. I told him I knew of a girl that was interested in him (which was true, she had a crush on him, but I knew she had little chance with him, also) and I said to him I couldn't do that too her. He was pretty annoyed with that response, but it took care of the situation for me. I liked the guy real well, but not to date. Not to get serious with. Wow, this is going back, this was in the year 1988, I think. Memories....

Hey, about who Remember the Time was written for (if anyone), I'm not too concerned about it, or that concerned about most of this, really; I'm just making conversation. :) Sharin' my thoughts here and there. I enjoy chatting with you guys about Michael :) and his "possible" LITD girl.

Like someone once said in here, it's nice to come in here when it is not always so nice "out there." A place for escapism and imaginative thinking and being creative and being relational with each other and those who join us as well. This thread is not just another thread; it is definitely relational and caring. It is what adds to it and makes it different.

Sdeidjs

23-09-2010, 10:56 PM

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:angel:

Lainy

23-09-2010, 11:13 PM

Like someone once said in here, it's nice to come in here when it is not always so nice "out there." A place for escapism and imaginitive thinking and being creative and being relational with each other and those who join us as well. This thread is not just another thread; it is definitely relational and caring. It is what adds to it and makes it different.

:ph34r:
Man, do you read thoughts? :lol:
It's so true. I feel just like that. :flowers:

8701girl

24-09-2010, 03:02 AM

Girls, you should watch this video, starting from 4.00. The girl who was with Michael in Thriller said that he was flirting with her and she fell in love with him of course :) But she said he told her he has somebody else very important to him and he cannot cross that line.
Interesting... What girl he was talking about?

Aww so michael had a special lady in his life then..so sweet:wub:

MysteriousPhoenix

24-09-2010, 04:23 PM

Wow, MP, that video pretty much tells it all.

Haha! Yeah and I like how there is always that one voice of reason, like that girl in there who said, "The chances of Justin Bieber falling in love with you are slim to none!" :lol:

Like someone once said in here, it's nice to come in here when it is not always so nice "out there." A place for escapism and imaginative thinking and being creative and being relational with each other and those who join us as well. This thread is not just another thread; it is definitely relational and caring. It is what adds to it and makes it different.

Awww, I'm glad eveyone in here feels L.O.V.E.d.
I love all you guys, too!:wub:

Matter of fact, I'd like to dedicate this song to all of you ...

<EMBED height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=480 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/RH0lEVMuzzw?fs=1&hl=en_US allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></EMBED>

And ... just for the fun of it ...

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Asedora

24-09-2010, 05:51 PM

edited

Favoritetune

24-09-2010, 09:18 PM

Hi guys!

One quick comment before I see the other pages here, the look in in the signature is given to Eddie Murphy because Eddie asks "and what is it you're going to do" or something like that.

I think it could be for his litdg because of the one line where he screams remember my baby! It sounds like he's pleading right there imo.

Lisha

24-09-2010, 09:41 PM

And ... just for the fun of it ...

<EMBED height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=480 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/-WzcSCsYwIw?fs=1&hl=en_US allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></EMBED>

I super-dee-duper enjoyed this! Wonderful musicallity delivered by all them. And they kept the pace so fun; it never got boring with the same choreography repeated too many times in a row. They kept it movin'. They changed things up. :) Thanks, MP... that put a smile on my face.

Favoritetune

24-09-2010, 10:01 PM

Lisha

24-09-2010, 11:29 PM

As a matter of fact, may I ask if you read this post send a shout out if you're not too shame to say you believe in love?

I'm not sure if I feel perfectly inclined at the moment to say I believe in love, but I will give ya a shout out! :) Hi Favoritetune!

~ btw, once you reach 20 posts then your posts will start appearing right away for you, so you have less than ten posts to go! You're getting there, you, Junior Member, you. ;) Won't be long and you'll be a reg. member here on MJJC... so keep postin'.

...but if someone really loves someone then they will want them to be happy even if that means being with someone else.
So then, MJ didn't really love Diana Ross when she married someone else, and he didn't really love the litdg when he thought she was with someone else (WII)?

Asedora

25-09-2010, 01:58 AM

Wow Asedora that was a great post!

I'm not sure if you will get many answers on it but if someone really loves someone then they will want them to be happy even if that means being with someone else.

Well, hard to say happy or not happy. It is tough. I was talking about jealosy an the ability to accept it and undrstand that fact without negative emotions, anger, sadness etc. Just to understand if you are not that person that means you are not God's choice becuase God's choice for you is somebody else.

Thank you. :flowers:

AllOverAgain

25-09-2010, 02:15 AM

I noticed the count on how many people looked at this thread and thought whether they think he was in love with them or someone else, something was obviously drawing people here because the numbers are really high.

As a matter of fact, may I ask if you read this post send a shout out if you're not too shame to say you believe in love?

Hello :waving:
I usually don't post here but since you asked so nicely I wanted to respond.

Do I believe in love? Yes, very much so. Do I believe that the LITD girl exists/exited? Not too sure, but it would be nice if MJ had had his happy ending.
Why do I come here? Well, I just love this thread and I love all the posts in here. It's really sweet and romatic, and as some of you said a great place for escapism. So keep 'em coming :thumbs_up:

...but if someone really loves someone then they will want them to be happy even if that means being with someone else.
So then, MJ didn't really love Diana Ross when she married someone else, and he didn't really love the litdg when he thought she was with someone else (WII)?

Well, I think he loved her but it was a selfish kind of love. In my opinion true love means you love someone for who they are, their personality, their heart, their soul. You love them no matter what, it's unconditional. All you want is for them to be happy and if they are happy with someone else you are happy for them. You love the person and not what you can get out of your love for them.
That doesn't mean you can't be sad about it though, but if you get jealous and act out because they are with someone else I think it's conditional love. You don't have their best interest in mind, you have your own interest in mind. Then you depend on them in a way, want them to give you safety and make you happy - or why else would you be jealous? You feel like you need them, they give you something you haven't learned to give yourself. But you have to learn to rely on yourself first. If you can't be happy on your own you can't be happy with someone else because you will always be in that place where you expect something from them (condition). True love isn't about what you get it's about what you give and imo love has become a trade today. If you give me safety, I give you safety; love me and I love you; make me happy and I will make you happy. I think that's why so many marriages end up in divorce today - people want their needs to be met, it's about getting and not giving.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, feel free to ignore me :blushing:

Sdeidjs

25-09-2010, 03:25 AM

Wow Asedora that was a great post!

I'm not sure if you will get many answers on it but if someone really loves someone then they will want them to be happy even if that means being with someone else.

When MJ was with Debbie about to have Prince weren't the fans happy for him? If they loved him they had to be because he was happy.

I noticed the count on how many people looked at this thread and thought whether they think he was in love with them or someone else, something was obviously drawing people here because the numbers are really high.

I am not sure if those numbers went down since the thread started and June 25th but the fact that it's still here has to say something. Hats off to all the Love In the Dark girls for that!
As a matter of fact, may I ask if you read this post send a shout out if you're not too shame to say you believe in love?

Once again, that was a great post Asedora, blessings to you!

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God Bless~~~

L.o.v.e Always

:angel:

Lisha

25-09-2010, 04:19 AM

So then, MJ didn't really love Diana Ross when she married someone else, and he didn't really love the litdg when he thought she was with someone else (WII)?
Well, I think he loved her but it was a selfish kind of love. In my opinion true love means you love someone for who they are, their personality, their heart, their soul. You love them no matter what, it's unconditional. All you want is for them to be happy and if they are happy with someone else you are happy for them. You love the person and not what you can get out of your love for them.
That doesn't mean you can't be sad about it though, but if you get jealous and act out because they are with someone else I think it's conditional love. You don't have their best interest in mind, you have your own interest in mind. Then you depend on them in a way, want them to give you safety and make you happy - or why else would you be jealous? You feel like you need them, they give you something you haven't learned to give yourself. But you have to learn to rely on yourself first. If you can't be happy on your own you can't be happy with someone else because you will always be in that place where you expect something from them (condition). True love isn't about what you get it's about what you give and imo love has become a trade today. If you give me safety, I give you safety; love me and I love you; make me happy and I will make you happy. I think that's why so many marriages end up in divorce today - people want their needs to be met, it's about getting and not giving.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, feel free to ignore me :blushing:

So fun to see new people take the time to post in here. Very cool.

Offended? Why? Who would you be offending? Thanks so much for posting your thoughts! :)

Put on your seat belts everyone, for here comes mine...

I am guessing when you begin by saying "I think he loved her, but it was a selfish kind of love" you are meaning Diana Ross and not addressing the girl in Who Is It, (that we have discussed in here before as maybe being the LITD girl). Did he have a selfish kind of love for her, the LITD girl then, too, for it sure seems he wasn't very happy for her... if she was going to be with someone else. And, pretty mad at her, as well, for not catching onto his "master plan" all worked out in his head about him and her.

Actually, he seemed to have more than one girl in his past who didn't catch into his "master plan". When he decided that Lisa Marie, a girl who on her own had fame and money, and decided she would be a good choice for him, he was "devastated" when one day in 1988 he picked up a magazine and saw a photo of her and her new husband on the cover. He thought that guy was going to be him. Right? Didn't he claim that? Doesn't seem he was too happy for her at the time. Pretty put out actually. I wonder if he was happy immediately after hearing she was going to have a baby after that first year of marriage? Maybe he had adjusted by them and was.

Please don't get the impression I am putting MJ down for him at any point in his life feeling "jealously" or devastation when someone he hoped would be his, ends up being someone elses. I'm not at all. Instead, he is someone I could actually imagine having a friendship with because he was "real" and wouldn't put on an act that he is happy when he wasn't. If I am around someone who is aways loving and talking about unconditional love all the time and is basically, in my opinion, too good to be true...no thanks, not someone I'd want to be a friend with...because no way can I be all that good-to-be-true, for I am made up of all those human kind of stuff that makes me at times quite imperfect to be around. So with MJ, if he feels and acts out jealousy once and awhile, I know he is made of the same stuff as me...he's real. And I could trust him. Anyone who comes off too together, or too good, always saying the right and mature, loving thing all the time...forget it, I can't trust them.

But, more than this, I am one who believes that there is only one who can truly love in a purely unconditional manner; and that is God.

Why? Well, it has already been mentioned, imperfect humans are selfish beings, we are flawed. And if we have selfishness in us, we cannot love anyone perfectly. Only God who is perfect can love someone perfectly. That means when you get two imperfect people together who at best can only love each other imperfectly, you have times when one of them will be selfish and will hurt and disappoint the other one, and vice versa, and then they also get to take turns forgiving each other and showing each other grace.

You say, above, AllOverAgain, if one loves someone unconditionally, they cannot be selfish and and would then, be able to accept another who they love, loving another instead of them, and find a way to be happy for them. Remember God loves us unconditonally. The Bible tells us, also, that God is a jealous God. He loves His children jealously. It's not okay with Him if those He loves turns their back on Him and loves another or anything more than Him. He is not happy for them. He is jealous and wants their Love to return to Him. (Is God selfish?)

It appears that God is an example of someone who loves unconditionally and is still jealous.

Being jealous is also a God-given human emotion. It can eat away at a person, true, so it is not beneficial for that person to give into for long. I believe Michael could have been capable of loving someone very much but his human side, his flesh, could get weak and he could have gone over to feeling jealousy. But MJ was a man who knew the Bible, and I would think would go to God to help him have the right feelings and attitudes, in any situation, that was causing him that jealousy. Perhaps that is exactly what he did when he was not happy about Diana Ross marrying who and when she did, and so perhaps his jealousy did not last long. Maybe he got to the place where he was happy for her. But good for him for being so real and open and "telling" on himself to others that he was nothappy that she did marry and wasn't gioing to pretend he was.

There is no way I would want any fan to be left feeling they were less than, or not a "true fan," or did not really love MJ, because they for a time felt some jealousy because MJ ended up with someone other than them. Nor would I hope to see anyone feeling superior over another fan because they themselves have the "correct," the more "mature," the more "loving," (or is being one who is more able to have unconditional love for him) kind of response to the idea of MJ's finally being with someone that he loves.

Give the jealous fan time. They may very well get there. They can ask God to help them adjust and accept it if it is hard for them. It's okay. God would never condemn them for it, neither should any of us. I certainly don't condemn MJ for ever being selfish, unreasonable, jealous, immature, or any other human kind of feeling that he may have experienced in his lifetime. And I hope he wouldn't condemn me for being any of those things at times either. Because there is NO way I can pretend to be perfectly good. But others can trust me to be real. And I think maybe Michael could be trusted in that way, too. :) And I'm glad about that!

(I just want to clarify that this post is not a direct response to your post, AllOverAgain, but is a response to what I have observed as a "way of looking at things" in some fans for some time, and a few posts lately have brought it to the surface for me once again. I truly enjoyed your post and thought it very reasonable and appreciated you sharing you thoughts, truly! :) )

Asedora

25-09-2010, 04:28 AM

Lisha

25-09-2010, 04:55 AM

There are different types of love, I think. I do not know what to say about unconditional love but I will try my best.

I understand what it means but I think the example of unconditional love is God’s love. And it similar to how mother loves her child. If a person is ready to die for somebody but still hoping to get something in return like "joining this person" and such, that would NOT be unconditional love in my opinion.

I was thinking about some good examples of unconditional love in literature recently. And the only example crossed my mind is a “Little Mermaid” story written by Andersen which I loved to read when I was a kid and cried my eyes out for that mermaid girl, imagining in my child’s brain that I was her :(

She could save her life by killing Prince and return to the ocean but she choose to die herself giving life to him and knowing that he was in love with somebody else.

http://mi9.com/uploads/fantasy/960/the-little-mermaid_422_13939.jpg

The thing is that when there is unconditional love there is always death involved in my opinion under certain circumstances which makes that love unconditional. It looks like there is always only that choice. Somebody has to die. The greatest historical example of unconditional love is Jesus Christ.

It is so interesting to me that you bring up the (original) story of The Little Mermaid...for I thought of it today as an example of jealousy. For after The Little Mermaid had set her hopes so high, and had even given up her tail and her life in the sea to be with the Prince...he falls in love with another. She is overcome with jealousy, and blinded by her pain, she goes to the wedding bed where the prince and his new bride are laying side by side (yes, his head on one pillow and hers on the other) fast asleep. The Little Mermaid raises a knife to kill his bride....but when she sees the Prince lying so sweetly and so in love with his new wife, she cannot do it. She understands her love for him is deeper than that, she could never take away his happiness and cause him pain. So she drops the knife and runs out to the edge of the Prince's ship. And I will let you all read the story to see how it ends, if you do not know.

She really loved him, she didn't understand how much...because she first was filled with the very natural and real human feeling of jealousy...she had to get past it. And something helped her get past it...her genuine love for him.

Now is it possible that the fans that would have felt jealousy if MJ had married his LITD girl before he died, in time, after seeing him happy and in love, would have come to place of being happy for him? That their jealousy could turn to that kind of benevolant love? Very possibly. Jealousy might have to come first for them though for a little while.

Ashtanga

25-09-2010, 04:58 AM

There are different types of love, I think. I do not know what to say about unconditional love but I will try my best.

And/Or..........

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily. 5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it . 6 It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail. 7 [I]Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end].

Lisha

25-09-2010, 05:05 AM

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily. 5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it . 6 It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail. 7 [I]Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end].

Yes! That is what we imperfect humans are shooting for! And we need God's help and God's love and God's grace to get us as close as we can to loving in such a way.

Asedora

25-09-2010, 05:19 AM

She really loved him, she didn't understand how much...because she first was filled with the very natural and real human feeling of jealousy...she had to get past it. And something helped her get past it...her genuine love for him.

.

Just to clear up what I wanted to say..... .Unconditional love imo always involves death under certain circumstances, which makes that love unconditional. The exmple in letarture is Little Mermaid story. A historical example is Jesus Christ, which is God's love. There is NO unconditional love from fans to MJ imo, but ppl talk about all the time for some reason.That was my point.

Asedora

25-09-2010, 05:27 AM

Yes! That is what we imperfect humans are shooting for! And we need God's help and God's love and God's grace to get us as close as we can to loving in such a way.

Agree. Only God can love in such way.

Lisha

25-09-2010, 05:41 AM

Just to clear up what I wanted to say..... .Unconditional love imo always involves death under certain circumstances, which makes that love unconditional. The exmple in letarture is Little Mermaid story. A historical example is Jesus Christ, which is God's love. That was my point.

Your point was good! And from there, I went on to illustrate something else... see, we can do both! :) Team work!:clapping:

An example on how we need God to help us love in the way we should because at times we can't get there on our own, is a true story from the life of Corrie Ten Boom. If you have not read her book, The Hiding Place, I highly recommend it.

She and her father and sister helped to hide jews during the Nazi invasion in Holland. They were discovered and sent to concentration camps; there father to one, and she and her sister to another. While there Corrie struggled greatly with hatred for the women guards there, for they were truly heartless and hateful to not only herself and the others, but to her own obviously frail sister who had a weak constitution who they would beat if she paused when she was supposed to be doing manual labor for them.

The time came when there was a numerical error that placed Corrie's ID number for the camp on a list of those who were being released. And so she was freed. After the war, Corrie began to travel and speak at meetings to share all that God did to help her and her sister while at camp, and how while in there they taught others about God's love for them.

One night at one of these meetings, for afterwards often people in the audience would come up to her to ask her a question or share their own stories, Corrie looked up in time to see a woman walking up to her with an extended hand. She immediately recognized this woman to be one of the guards at the concentration camp that she hated with all her heart. But here she was quickly approaching and so Corrie prayed to God something like, 'Oh God, you know I feel hate for this woman, but would you please replace that hate with love...give me your Love for her. By the time Corrie reached out and grasped that ex-guard's hand, she was filled with such an overwhelming love for the woman, she couldn't believe it. It was real, and it was God's love. And the effect it must have had on that guard, knowing how she had treated Corrie and the others, yet this woman of God was looking at her with love and forgiveness.

It has been a long while since I have read the book so I may not be telling it perfectly. But it is a beautiful real-life example of how we need God's help to give us such a love, a deep and genuine and selfless love as that.

AllOverAgain

25-09-2010, 07:44 AM

Glad nobody is offended by my post (so far ;)).
And thank you very much for your long response, Lashi. Very much appreciated :) And of course I also want to thank everyone else who responded!

I am guessing when you begin by saying "I think he loved her, but it was a selfish kind of love" you are meaning Diana Ross and not addressing the girl in Who Is It, (that we have discussed in here before as maybe being the LITD girl).

Yes, I did mean DR. Sorry, should have made that more clear.

But, more than this, I am one who believes that there is only one who can truly love in a purely unconditional manner; and that is God.

Why? Well, it has already been mentioned, imperfect humans are selfish beings, we are flawed. And if we have selfishness in us, we cannot love anyone perfectly. Only God who is perfect can love someone perfectly. That means when you get two imperfect people together who at best can only love each other imperfectly, you have times when one of them will be selfish and will hurt and disappoint the other one, and vice versa, and then they also get to take turns forgiving each other and showing each other grace.

Very true. Completely unconditional love can only be given by God, we will never reach that point but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to be better and try to overcome emotions such as jealousy and anger as much as we can, right?
I would also like to point out that it certainly wasn't my intention to put MJ down for anything he might have felt or thought or done at any given time. I am sorry if it came across like that. I am aware that my post was very idealistic and by calling MJ's love "selfish" I certainly didn't mean to say that he was a selfish person or can only love in a selfish way. But in comparison to unconditional love, the idealistic and God-given one it was selfish and that was what I was aiming at. Not that it was selfish on its own. Sometimes I have a hard time explaining myself, I apologize for any misunderstandings.

Now the question is if we will never be able to love someone truly unconditional, how far should we try to get there? How far can we get and how "healthy" is it really? Could it be that in the end, if we all strived for unconditional love, we would all end up like robots without any real personalities? If we would all reach the point where we overcame the negative human emotions to a certain degree how alike would we all be? Don't those "negative" emotions also define us a lot in a way? Maybe unconditional love isn't even something we should strive too much for?
Does someone get what I mean? I hope so lol :blush:

Remember God loves us unconditonally. The Bible tells us, also, that God is a jealous God. He loves His children jealously. It's not okay with Him if those He loves turns their back on Him and loves another or anything more than Him. He is not happy for them. He is jealous and wants their Love to return to Him. (Is God selfish?)

It appears that God is an example of someone who loves unconditionally and is still jealous.

Well, for me the question would be if He is acting out His jealousy or is He just jealous "on His own". This might be a strange answer, but I think maybe the crux between conditional and unconditional love is just the way how you deal with your feelings. It is normal to be jealous if the person you love is with someone else, but there is a difference if you act that feeling out on them and let them feel how unhappy you are with the choice they have made. Or if you see it as your own problem since there is free will and deal with it on your own because if they don't love you as much as you love them, what can you do? Not saying you should act all happy around that person if you don't feel that way, but just don't be unfair to them because they don't give you what you want them to give you. Can't you still be nice to them at that point without seeming like a fake and not very trustworthy person? And is that maybe what we really should strive for instead of true God-like unconditional love? Or am I completely off-track? :scratch:

Being jealous is also a God-given human emotion. It can eat away at a person, true, so it is not beneficial for that person to give into for long. I believe Michael could have been capable of loving someone very much but his human side, his flesh, could get weak and he could have gone over to feeling jealousy. But MJ was a man who knew the Bible, and I would think would go to God to help him have the right feelings and attitudes, in any situation, that was causing him that jealousy. Perhaps that is exactly what he did when he was not happy about Diana Ross marrying who and when she did, and so perhaps his jealousy did not last long. Maybe he got to the place where he was happy for her. But good for him for being so real and open and "telling" on himself to others that he was not happy that she did marry and wasn't gioing to pretend he was.

True!

There is no way I would want any fan to be left feeling they were less than, or not a "true fan," or did not really love MJ, because they for a time felt some jealousy because MJ ended up with someone other than them. Nor would I hope to see anyone feeling superior over another fan because they themselves have the "correct," the more "mature," the more "loving," (or is being one who is more able to have unconditional love for him) kind of response to the idea of MJ's finally being with someone that he loves.

Neither would I and neither was this my intention. Loving someone certainly isn't a contest in any way and I hope nobody understood my post like that!

I certainly don't condemn MJ for ever being selfish, unreasonable, jealous, immature, or any other human kind of feeling that he may have experienced in his lifetime. And I hope he wouldn't condemn me for being any of those things at times either.

*absolutely co-sign*

Just to clear up what I wanted to say..... .Unconditional love imo always involves death under certain circumstances, which makes that love unconditional. The exmple in letarture is Little Mermaid story. A historical example is Jesus Christ, which is God's love. There is NO unconditional love from fans to MJ imo, but ppl talk about all the time for some reason.That was my point.

Hmm. Interesting point for sure. But wouldn't that mean that there will always be that point in unconditional love where you have to prove your love to be unconditional by dying for the one you love, which in intself would do make it conditional again? :scratch:

8701girl

25-09-2010, 01:09 PM

When MJ was with Debbie about to have Prince weren't the fans happy for him? If they loved him they had to be because he was happy.

I was totally happy for him :)

Asedora

25-09-2010, 05:27 PM

edited

Lisha

25-09-2010, 07:28 PM

Glad nobody is offended by my post (so far ;)).
And thank you very much for your long response, Lashi. Very much appreciated :) And of course I also want to thank everyone else who responded!

Yes, I did mean DR. Sorry, should have made that more clear.

Very true. Completely unconditional love can only be given by God, we will never reach that point but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to be better and try to overcome emotions such as jealousy and anger as much as we can, right?
I would also like to point out that it certainly wasn't my intention to put MJ down for anything he might have felt or thought or done at any given time. I am sorry if it came across like that. I am aware that my post was very idealistic and by calling MJ's love "selfish" I certainly didn't mean to say that he was a selfish person or can only love in a selfish way. But in comparison to unconditional love, the idealistic and God-given one it was selfish and that was what I was aiming at. Not that it was selfish on its own. Sometimes I have a hard time explaining myself, I apologize for any misunderstandings.

Now the question is if we will never be able to love someone truly unconditional, how far should we try to get there? How far can we get and how "healthy" is it really? Could it be that in the end, if we all strived for unconditional love, we would all end up like robots without any real personalities? If we would all reach the point where we overcame the negative human emotions to a certain degree how alike would we all be? Don't those "negative" emotions also define us a lot in a way? Maybe unconditional love isn't even something we should strive too much for?
Does someone get what I mean? I hope so lol :blush:

Well, for me the question would be if He is acting out His jealousy or is He just jealous "on His own". This might be a strange answer, but I think maybe the crux between conditional and unconditional love is just the way how you deal with your feelings. It is normal to be jealous if the person you love is with someone else, but there is a difference if you act that feeling out on them and let them feel how unhappy you are with the choice they have made. Or if you see it as your own problem since there is free will and deal with it on your own because if they don't love you as much as you love them, what can you do? Not saying you should act all happy around that person if you don't feel that way, but just don't be unfair to them because they don't give you what you want them to give you. Can't you still be nice to them at that point without seeming like a fake and not very trustworthy person? And is that maybe what we really should strive for instead of true God-like unconditional love? Or am I completely off-track? :scratch:

True!

Neither would I and neither was this my intention. Loving someone certainly isn't a contest in any way and I hope nobody understood my post like that!

*absolutely co-sign*

Hmm. Interesting point for sure. But wouldn't that mean that there will always be that point in unconditional love where you have to prove your love to be unconditional by dying for the one you love, which in intself would do make it conditional again? :scratch:

Very intelligent responses. Why have you kept yourself from posting all this while? You have a lot of understanding and wisdom to share.

If members like you and Favoritetune continue to post and add to the already ongoing discussion...I can be on my merry way. Which might be good. :)

Everyone, keep the posts coming and I'll sit back for a bit.

Favoritetune

26-09-2010, 04:02 AM

Lashi,

That's not right. Love your posts, are you threatening us that if we keep posting you'll stop?

Ashtanga

26-09-2010, 04:24 AM

Favoritetune

26-09-2010, 04:31 AM

I think it is possible to love unconditionally as a human. I imagine that is the love a loving parent has for their child and in beautiful rare cases of love spouses have for the other, sometimes even in friendship.

Unconditional means even though you say or do something displeasing or outright cruel or hateful to another the love carries on. Through the winter and summer and all of the seasons of love, love carries on. Through the good, bad happy, sad, difficult, dark and light love carries on.

Unconditional is not placing ultimatums on love as to say if you do this or unless you do that. It is accepting a person as they are and loving them even when they do not seem so loveable.

Loving someone however is not staying around to be abused by a hateful spouse or uncaring friend it is to still love them despite their flaws and failures. To help and care, share and grow is to love.

When Jesus died on the cross it was so we could receive redemption for our sins. His love was unconditional but He did not have to die because His love was unconditional. He chose to die because the wages of sin is death and we deserved to die but as a sacrificial lamb He died in our stead.

The only death that needs to die for unconditional love is a dying to self and selfish ways and not dying of self nor taking the life of another, that is not love it is waste.

The story Asedora, you described is horribly tragic and there was another way for her to express her love which would simply be to fall to her knees and seek God's grace, will and mercy for her life as well as pray for the man she loved. Her love was NOT unconditional because when she did not believe she could be with him, her love ended when she selfishly took her life and only God knows what the future holds.

Imagine if so there is a litdg had she taken her life when MJ married Lisa marie or Debbie Rowe, where would he be?

If the man someone loves is with another woman then love for that man would cause them not to hate or to harm self or others. As Lashi said jealousy is normal. As the bible says be angry but don't sin.

If love is in someones heart for another and they are with someone else then it is their job and duty to carry on ith their life to the best of their abilities being the best person they can be because for all they know they may need to grow into being the person that man or woman needs or God has the perfect person just around the corner for them.

Lashi, don't stop making your posts.

Mysterious Phoenix, where are you? I would love to hear more of your insigts.

Sdiedjs, loved that video!

All others great posts, thanks for being so open, honest and unashamed to post your thoughts!

un_breakable

26-09-2010, 04:46 AM

Hey...... >>>> :hug:

Just checking you all.... :shifty:

I'm happy this thread is going and attracting new members. :D :cheers: :heart: Great! :clapping: I'm sure that was what Michael wanted. :wub: :give_heart: :give_rose:

(Oh Michael.... :cry:) *big sigh*

And I'll keep observing here.... :shifty: >>> http://mob88.photobucket.com/albums/k166/chamerazzi/thriller.gif

Yes, i'm new and i'm trying to understand this thread, but it seems like there is too much to talk about. it will take some time to get it.

Btw, loved your thriller gif!!!! hahaha

AllOverAgain

26-09-2010, 08:18 AM

Very intelligent responses. Why have you kept yourself from posting all this while? You have a lot of understanding and wisdom to share.

If members like you and Favoritetune continue to post and add to the already ongoing discussion...I can be on my merry way. Which might be good. :)

Everyone, keep the posts coming and I'll sit back for a bit.

Thank you so much, Lashi! Well, I didn't post because I had nothing to say, simple as that. And I'm not sure how much I will continue posting, I like to lurk and just read what everyone else is coming up with. I'm a bit lazy when it comes down to posting and I really suck at song interpretations but I promise that if I have something to say I will jump into the convo ;)

When some fans say that they love MJ unconditionally , I always want to ask: Wait a minute.. How can be fan's love unconditional if you started loving him BECAUSE OF WHAT Michael DID on stage, BECAUSE of his music etc. It is not like you loved a man without anything. You loved his music first and got attracted with his talent, and fell in love with him because of that first reason. This is the whole point to be a fan right? You fell in love with the man and the artist, not just with the man. I would not call fan's love to MJ unconditional at this point.

Yes, it is love still and it is a very strong feeling. But even after his passing this love did not turn to unconditional imo, because you cannot change the past.

So to you unconditional love means loving someone for the simple fact that they are alive, do I get this right? And if this divine love isn't there from the first moment on it can never be unconditional and not even turn into unconditional love because you started to love the person for something they have done or said and not just for the fact that they are a person and alive? Just checking if I get you right :)

I think the closest we (humans) can get to a possibility of unconditional love experience is when 2 ppl fall in love from a very first look without knowing who is that person, what he does and such. This kind of love is rare but I believe it is possible.:)

Yes, that would definitely be unconditional love (unless they would fall for another because of physical attraction, but I am sure that is not what you mean here). But to me that kind of love seems almost impossible for MJ since pretty much everyone knows who he is. Probably only he could fall in love with someone by the very first look, but not the other way around because he would always have already a label from that person in a way.

Well, have you ever heard of twin flames? It is said that your twin flame is your perfect soulmate, the one person created for you. You are two pieces of the same soul and once you meet yours you will recongnize them as your twin right away. You feel as if you've known that person forever and even share such a connection where you feel their (unconditional) love all the time - and even their emotions sometimes - no matter how far you are apart. And it is said that if you look into their eyes you see yourself. You are their perfect mirror and once you've met them the connection you both share won't go away again, even if you part ways and don't talk and see each other for years. You will still feel them.

But I've also read stories where people have known each other for years and only then recognize another as their twin and that only then the connection starts with the above stated signs. Would that still be unconditional love for you? Those people didn't fall in love with another by the first sight, but still they feel a divine unconditional love for another that nothing seems to be able to break.

And I've also read stories where people have met their twin online and recognized them even there right away. Some of them have never met but feel their twin. They are together although they are apart.

Now what if MJ and his LITD girl met, recognized each other but then were kept apart for whatever reason and he started talking to her through his lyrics all those years to tell her he hadn't forgotten her? Or maybe she was so scared by the strong connection that she stayed away from him all this time for the fear that it wouldn't work out and he was searching for her by his songs? Or what if they had met online at a later time, as someone brought up here before, and they recognized another then but the girl thought it had to be all just in her head since it surely wouldn't be HER who was HIS twin flame? And so when they lost contact online at a time (like when the chat closed) she didn't think much of the ongoing connection, and in the end they never met because she didn't make any attempt to get near him again. Could that maybe the answer? :scratch:

8701girl

26-09-2010, 12:22 PM

Hey...... >>>> :hug:

Just checking you all.... :shifty:

I'm happy this thread is going and attracting new members. :D :cheers: :heart: Great! :clapping: I'm sure that was what Michael wanted. :wub: :give_heart: :give_rose:

(Oh Michael.... :cry:) *big sigh*

And I'll keep observing here.... :shifty: >>> http://mob88.photobucket.com/albums/k166/chamerazzi/thriller.gif

Yeh its great that are new members in this thread :)..welcome guys!

Ashtanga

26-09-2010, 07:14 PM

Yes, i'm new and i'm trying to understand this thread, but it seems like there is too much to talk about. it will take some time to get it.

You have many posts to read. http://kitsuney.free.fr/blog/blog/files/crazy_kermit.gif :lol: :wild:

Btw, loved your thriller gif!!!! hahaha
Thanks!!! :D

Yeh its great that are new members in this thread :)..welcome guys!
Yes.... A big welcome to them. >>>> :hi:

And...........

AllOverAgain and Favoritetune... you have great thoughts. Very good! :clapping: I like to read them! Keep up the good job.... :cheeky:

http://mob88.photobucket.com/albums/k166/chamerazzi/thriller.gif

:shifty:

MysteriousPhoenix

26-09-2010, 07:37 PM

Welcome to the fam, AllOverAgain and un_breakable!:flowers: Nice to have you aboard ... *singing* "The looooove boat soon will be making another run, the love boat promises for everyone ..."

Excellent post on unconditional love, Favoritetune! And yeah, what in thee world is Lashi talking about? Is she tryin' to make like a tree and leave? (Boy, that was a dumb joke!)

AllOverAgain

26-09-2010, 08:36 PM

Aww, thanks guys for the nice welcoming :wub:

I am amazed that this thread is still alive and filled with so many well thought-out and profound posts - and of course so much love, love, love - even after more than two years since its beginning. It gives such a good vibe :clapping:
I would love to read everything in here but it's so much that since the beginning of this year I've only come to page 230! So I guess it will still take a while, but every page is worthwhile and one day I will have read it all!! :D

And yeah, what in thee world is Lashi talking about? Is she tryin' to make like a tree and leave? (Boy, that was a dumb joke!)

Actually, I think it was a cute joke and it made me smile :D

Asedora

26-09-2010, 08:55 PM

edited

Asedora

26-09-2010, 09:04 PM

edited

Lisha

26-09-2010, 09:22 PM

Lashi, don't stop making your posts.

And yeah, what in thee world is Lashi talking about? Is she tryin' to make like a tree and leave? (Boy, that was a dumb joke!)Funny!

Well, when I said what I said about making like a tree and leave-ing, I was sort of talking outloud...

I will be open with you all here. I do not want to be anywhere where God does not want me to be, or stay even a minute longer than He would want me to, so...I am always checking in with Him and watching to see if He gives me any indication that I'm to go. In fact, at times it's more like a "Can I go NOW!" then a "when would You like me to go?, sort of thing. lol. And that pretty much is how it's been from the very beginning of my entering the MJ world. This hasn't been easy for me, these three years have included some very hard trials for me personally, very difficult...the most difficult for me ever in my life to date. So you can see why I might be asking quite frequently, "Can I leave NOW?!"

But here I am again (meaning I came back a bit ago). Posting away.

I came back to bless some here who I felt were getting kind of sad that the thread was not having too many posts going on in it, and things maybe were less deep and interesting, like the thread was kind of dying. I knew it would be very unlikely to return things to how they were when it was hopping in here and so many were loving it, because some key and brilliant contributors are gone, and their posts are very much missed. But I thought I'd come for a time and post some things (because as you can all probably see, it isn't too hard for me to think of something to say in response to others posts).

But, with noticing some new faces in here who have the potential to add a lot to this thread with their posts, I'm thinkin' hey, this may be it...time to defer to others and move on.

I always remember something a gal shared who had the right heart attitude regarding only wanting to be where God wanted her, and only for as long as He did.

She was surprised to find herself being asked to sing as a background vocalist for a worship team at a church. That was a rather coveted position, which of course the word coveted shouldn't be involved when it comes to serving God, but the church is full of people, and again, people are flawed. But she handed the whole thing over to God and said, "I'm willing to serve You in this way as long as you want, Lord." Being that she had some prophetic gifting, she was given an impression that God was saying to her, "When a girl joins the team that is a dancer, then you will know your time is done." Well, she blessed the church with her vocals for about two years and then, at one rehearsal, the worship leader announced to the team he was adding a new girl. And there she was, and she had a lovely voice and seemed to fit in well even that first night. So, being that our "herione" here, was always watching to know when her time was through, she started a conversaton with the girl, some small talk, ya know, and then asked her what kind of things she was into. The girl, answered, "Well, I'm actually a dancer."

It must have been fun standing up there on stage at the mic every Sunday, I'm sure, and having everyone think you're pretty special and awfully lucky (since so few were asked) to be on the worship team at a church as large as that one was, but this gal had things in proper perspective and at that time, after that rehearsal, let the worship leader know that she believed God now had other things for her to do, and she was stepping down.

If it is your heart's desire to please God and do your best to serve Him, you try your best to listen and figure out where He wants you to be or what He has given your hand to do at any particular time.

I know Michael Jackson has done a lot of impressive things, and I know I look at things differently than some, that what I value may not be what someone else values, but there is something that Michael had been overheard saying that warmed my heart...deeply.

Some time after he died there was an interview with his voice instructor, Seth, and Seth told the story that the last time they were togehter (it might have been about three weeks before June 25th) he and MJ were in a room with Michael standing there ready to work on his voice, while Seth was at the pinao. But Seth first was playing something spontaneously... whatever came to him, as he was sititng there at the piano...just caught up in letting his fingers go. Michael, being one who is (as AllForMJ has put it) "a feeler" began to feel the presence of the Lord in that music. Seth wonderfully picked up on this, and with sensitivity, decided to leave MJ alone with God in that room...he even turned the light off as he exited to help there be less distraction as Michael spent that quiet time with God. When he returned, thinking it might have been enough time, Michael still was quietly talking to the Lord, and Seth heard him say,

"God, just tell me what you want me to do, and I'll do it."

To me, there are words no more beautiful for a man to say. Michael Jackson, you succeeded in impressing me very much with those words.

I don't always hear God right, and I make a lot of mistakes, but I try to stay in His will the best I'm able, and if it is His will for me to stop hanging around this site or post in this thread...then that's what I want to be aligned with. Don't know for sure yet, but I'm watching and trying to listen.

Favoritetune, I don't agree with your view on unconditional love, so maybe you'd rather I wouldn't post THAT post that explains why. haha!

Ashtanga

26-09-2010, 09:36 PM

I came back to bless some here who I felt were getting kind of sad that the thread was not having too many posts going on in it, and things maybe were less deep and interesting, like the thread was kind of dying. I knew it would be very unlikely to return things to how they were when it was hopping in here and so many were loving it, because some key and brilliant contributers are gone, and their posts are very much missed. But I thought I'd come for a time and post some things (because as you can all probably see, it isn't too hard for me to think of something to say in response to others posts).
Hey.... :hug:

:give_heart:

Some time after he died there was an interview with his voice instructor, Seth, and Seth told the story that the last time they were togehter (it might have been about three weeks before June 25th) he and MJ were in a room with Michael standing there ready to work on his voice, while Seth was at the pinao. But Seth first was playing something spontaneously... whatever came to him, as he was sititng there at the piano...just caught up in letting his fingers go. Michael, being one who is (as AllForMJ has put it) "a feeler" began to feel the presence of the Lord in that music. Seth wonderfully picked up on this, and with sensitivity, decided to leave MJ alone with God in that room...he even turned the light off as he exited to help there be less distraction as Michael spent that quiet time with God. When he returned, thinking it might have been enough time, Michael still was quietly talking to the Lord, and Seth heard him say,

"God, just tell me what you want me to do, and I'll do it."

To me, there are words no more beautiful for a man to say. Michael Jackson, you succeeded in impressing me very much with those words.

I watched this interview. :heart: God, it broke me.... :cry: *big sigh*

Asedora

26-09-2010, 09:43 PM

8701girl

27-09-2010, 02:42 AM

Some time after he died there was an interview with his voice instructor, Seth, and Seth told the story that the last time they were togehter (it might have been about three weeks before June 25th) he and MJ were in a room with Michael standing there ready to work on his voice, while Seth was at the pinao. But Seth first was playing something spontaneously... whatever came to him, as he was sititng there at the piano...just caught up in letting his fingers go. Michael, being one who is (as AllForMJ has put it) "a feeler" began to feel the presence of the Lord in that music. Seth wonderfully picked up on this, and with sensitivity, decided to leave MJ alone with God in that room...he even turned the light off as he exited to help there be less distraction as Michael spent that quiet time with God. When he returned, thinking it might have been enough time, Michael still was quietly talking to the Lord, and Seth heard him say,

"God, just tell me what you want me to do, and I'll do it."

AWW he was so beautiful :cry:

Favoritetune

27-09-2010, 03:18 AM

Hi guys,

Asedora, even the ending is tragic! A souless extended non life of watering flowers with tears???

I am sorry but I have to say again in my opinion the taking of ANY life is selfishness! This story portrays a jealous enraged lady who is about to take the life of the woman who was with the man she wanted to have but instead chooses to commit suicide. She did not give up her life she took it! Her thoughts were murder or self murder and both or wrong in the scenario depicted.

To compare such an action to Jesus' dting on the cross to stand in our stead is totally wrong because He allowed people to kill him, He did not commit suicide.

I am kind of yelling with a bleeding heart right now because I am frustrated and sad all at once listening to this story and thinking some of MJ's fans can relate to that.

Again I ask, if there is someone who is meant to be with Michael and this lady saw him with Lisa Presley after they were married and took her own life, where would that leave Michael after he and Lisa divorced? Answer the same question concerning Debbie Rowe?

Only God knows what the future holds in it's entirety, no one should give up on life or hate another to the point of murder.

If this mermaid in the story line was in love with Michael and his bride that she saw him with was Lisa Mary Presley if the mermaid committed suicide where would Michael be if she were the one for him?

To me that story line seems like a childish adult who can't have their own way throwing a fit. Enraged she wants to kill the woman who has what she wants then realizing the great remorse she would feel for breaking the heart of the man she loved so she instead chooses to take her own life rather than find the strength to carry on and trust that life had love for her.

I am sorry if you can feel my frustration from the words I am writing and though I feel like I am yelling I am not yelling at you, just the thought of such a desperate depression makes me livid and sad for any who might feel that way.

I have read many of your posts which I think are so eloquent, intelligent and outright beautiful so please do not take my ranting as an attack against you in any way, rather it is my compassion towards your views that I exert.

Lashi?

You were joking? That wasn't funny!

I hope God doesn't want you to leave anytime soon and I may put in some selfish prayers concerning that:)

I don't mind you posting opposing views to what I wrote. We may not agree or I may see things from a different viewpoint, we're all still growing.

I think that you would say something along the lines of Jesus died because of unconditional love for humanity but had humanity not sinned there would be no need for His unconditional love to be shown in such an extreme complete extent. That is all I was saying. I know it is His love that compelled Him to allow Himself to die but again it is our sins that made there be a need for Him to die.

This is too deep and sad. Am I chasing people away? Maybe I should be the one to stop posting?

How many more posts do I need for my messages to show up before the day is gone?

Who knows where to find that interview of Michael's vocal coach? Is that on this site?

MysteriousPhoenix

27-09-2010, 01:58 PM

Well, when I said what I said about making like a tree and leave-ing, I was sort of talking outloud...

I will be open with you all here. I do not want to be anywhere where God does not want me to be, or stay even a minute longer than He would want me to, so...I am always checking in with Him and watching to see if He gives me any indication that I'm to go. In fact, at times it's more like a "Can I go NOW!" then a "when would You like me to go?, sort of thing. lol. And that pretty much is how it's been from the very beginning of my entering the MJ world. This hasn't been easy for me, these three years have included some very hard trials for me personally, very difficult...the most difficult for me ever in my life to date. So you can see why I might be asking quite frequently, "Can I leave NOW?!"

... I don't always hear God right, and I make a lot of mistakes, but I try to stay in His will the best I'm able, and if it is His will for me to stop hanging around this site or post in this thread...then that's what I want to be aligned with. Don't know for sure yet, but I'm watching and trying to listen.

I understand, Lashi, for I too think that my days here have been numbered (the end coming as soon as perhaps the end of this week).

The times they sure are a'changin' - and fast! It can be scary, but, like an acticle I read just today about the saints in the old testament, when God told them to "Go!" they just went! They didn't even know where they were going, they just walked by faith! They are my heroes! I want to be like that!

I feel God is placing many of us on some kind of journey. I think we should all pray for each other since sometimes journeys (and transitions) can be pretty rough.

I hope it is in God's will for me to be here just a little longer since this thread and everyone in it has meant so much to me. But, if it doesn't fit into His plan for my life, I will accept it and move forward. There is sadness in my heart, but I am giving myself permission to be excited as well!

I hope we will all enjoy the journeys God has chosen to set us on and I hope we will all meet up again just around the bend.:angel:

P.S. Hey, I just wanted to add a little comic relief, since that has always been my way of dealing with difficulties in my life, and Lashi, I just wanted to say that if you've ever seen the movie What About Bob? (which in my opinion has got to be one of the funniest movies ever made!), then you will understand when I say that I give you permission to take a vacation - a vacation from your problems! If any of you out there have not seen it, you must rent it TODAY!

xthunderx2

27-09-2010, 03:06 PM

I understand, Lashi, for I too think that my days here have been numbered (the end coming as soon as perhaps the end of this week).

The times they sure are a'changin' - and fast! It can be scary, but, like an acticle I read just today about the saints in the old testament, when God told them to "Go!" they just went! They didn't even know where they were going, they just walked by faith! They are my heroes! I want to be like that!

I feel God is placing many of us on some kind of journey. I think we should all pray for each other since sometimes journeys (and transitions) can be pretty rough.

I hope it is in God's will for me to be here just a little longer since this thread and everyone in it has meant so much to me. But, if it doesn't fit into His plan for my life, I will accept it and move forward. There is sadness in my heart, but I am giving myself permission to be excited as well!

I hope we will all enjoy the journeys God has chosen to set us on and I hope we will all meet up again just around the bend.:angel:

P.S. Hey, I just wanted to add a little comic relief, since that has always been my way of dealing with difficulties in my life, and Lashi, I just wanted to say that if you've ever seen the movie What About Bob? (which in my opinion has got to be one of the funniest movies ever made!), then you will understand when I say that I give you permission to take a vacation - a vacation from your problems! If any of you out there have not seen it, you must rent it TODAY!
I totatly understand and enjoyed your post...thank you.

Sdeidjs

27-09-2010, 03:46 PM

What Is this thing called L.O.V.E..?

Love is the emotion of strong affection and personal attachment. In philosophical context, love is a virtue representing all of human kindness, compassion, and affection. In religious context, love is not just a virtue, but the basis for all being ("God is love"), and the foundation for all divine law (Golden Rule).

The word love can refer to a variety of different feelings, states, and attitudes, ranging from generic pleasure ("I loved that meal") to intense interpersonal attraction ("I love my wife").

"Love" can also refer specifically to the passionate desire and intimacy of romantic love, to the sexual love of eros (cf. Greek words for love), to the emotional closeness of familial love, or to the platonic love that defines friendship,to the profound oneness or devotion of religious love.This diversity of uses and meanings, combined with the complexity of the feelings involved, makes love unusually difficult to consistently define, even compared to other emotional states.

Love in its various forms acts as a major facilitator of interpersonal relationships and, owing to its central psychological importance, is one of the most common themes in the creative arts.

Unconditional love is a term that means to love someone regardless of the loved one's qualities or actions. The paradigm of unconditional love is a mother's love for her newborn.

Unconditional love is often used to describe the love in an idealized romantic relationship. It may sometimes also be used to describe love between family members, comrades in arms and between others in highly committed relationships.

Unconditional love is a side-effect of nirvana.

Quotations referring to unconditional love;

Referring to a belief in ideal love among humankind, Civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. was quoted as saying “I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality”.

Unconditional Love Written by Tracy Carrigan "I opened the Door of my Heart to Unconditional Love"

Pope John Paul II was recorded as saying during a homily in San Francisco, in September 1987, that God "loves us all with an unconditional, everlasting love".

Source: Wikipedia

As Always

:angel:

I think it is possible to love unconditionally as a human. I imagine that is the love a loving parent has for their child and in beautiful rare cases of love spouses have for the other, sometimes even in friendship.

Unconditional means even though you say or do something displeasing or outright cruel or hateful to another the love carries on. Through the winter and summer and all of the seasons of love, love carries on. Through the good, bad happy, sad, difficult, dark and light love carries on.

Unconditional is not placing ultimatums on love as to say if you do this or unless you do that. It is accepting a person as they are and loving them even when they do not seem so loveable.

Loving someone however is not staying around to be abused by a hateful spouse or uncaring friend it is to still love them despite their flaws and failures. To help and care, share and grow is to love.

When Jesus died on the cross it was so we could receive redemption for our sins. His love was unconditional but He did not have to die because His love was unconditional. He chose to die because the wages of sin is death and we deserved to die but as a sacrificial lamb He died in our stead.

The only death that needs to die for unconditional love is a dying to self and selfish ways and not dying of self nor taking the life of another, that is not love it is waste.

The story Asedora, you described is horribly tragic and there was another way for her to express her love which would simply be to fall to her knees and seek God's grace, will and mercy for her life as well as pray for the man she loved. Her love was NOT unconditional because when she did not believe she could be with him, her love ended when she selfishly took her life and only God knows what the future holds.

Imagine if so there is a litdg had she taken her life when MJ married Lisa marie or Debbie Rowe, where would he be?

If the man someone loves is with another woman then love for that man would cause them not to hate or to harm self or others. As Lashi said jealousy is normal. As the bible says be angry but don't sin.

If love is in someones heart for another and they are with someone else then it is their job and duty to carry on ith their life to the best of their abilities being the best person they can be because for all they know they may need to grow into being the person that man or woman needs or God has the perfect person just around the corner for them.

Lashi, don't stop making your posts.

Mysterious Phoenix, where are you? I would love to hear more of your insigts.

Sdiedjs, loved that video!All others great posts, thanks for being so open, honest and unashamed to post your thoughts!

:punk:

Lily

27-09-2010, 03:59 PM

Those of you thinking of moving on will know when the time is right to do just that. I know that I did. This has become a place for me to visit and share my thoughts occasionally, but the truth is life changes, we let go and we move forward. The beauty about this thread is that we are continuously reminded that the one thing that last forever is love. It's timeless. I hope that in the end MJ had truly found his LITD. :)

"Just like the butterfly, I too will awaken in my own time."

Best of luck to everyone. Do and live what's in your heart. :)

Sdeidjs

27-09-2010, 04:33 PM

I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to knowledge and research with many genre (s) of interest...

For some this post may be a bit perplexing, and for others a bit of an enlightenment...

What is a Twin Flame?

Twin flames, also called twin souls,are literally the other half of our soul. We each have only one twin, and generally after being split the two went their separate ways, incarnating over and over to gather human experience before coming back together. Ideally, this happens in both of their last lifetimes on the planet so they can ascend together. So you probably haven't had many lifetimes with your twin.

Each twin is a complete soul, not half a soul. It is their task to become more whole, balancing their female and male sides, and ideally become enlightened, before reuniting with their twin. This reunion is of two complete and whole beings. All other relationships through all our lives could be said to be "practice" for the twin, the ultimate relationship.

What is a Soulmate?

Soulmates are our soul family, the ones we do have many lifetimes and experiences with, who help us grow and evolve, create and dissipate karma. According to ancient wisdom, when the soul is "born" or descended from Source, it is created in a group. The souls in this group are our soulmates, ones who are very like us in frequency makeup. Then each of these souls is split into two, creating the twins.

A soulmate is someone you are close to at a soul level, and with whom you have had many shared experiences in different lifetimes, in various kinds of relationships -- siblings, parent-child, best friend, as well as romantic relationships. There is a deep love for each other, and a spiritual bond that sets them apart from the superficiality of most other people in your life. Conversations are generally deep, about personal growth and service to make the world a better place. We can have many soulmates in our lives, and they come to us to help us grow spiritually.

Twin Flame reunions are the most fulfilling relationships we can enter into as humans, on all levels. However, twin flame couples have been extremely rare on the planet, and for good reasons.

When twins get together, it is for some kind of spiritual service work. This is their primary reason for finding each other, because through their union a huge birthing of creative energy is released, to be used for their mission together to help the planet and humanity make a big shift forward in consciousness.

Your chance of meeting and staying with your twin depends on how evolved your soul is, and how much of your baggage from this and past lives you have cleared. The biggest reason twins have to separate after coming together is their individual emotional baggage. Because in the presence of your twin, there can be nothing between you, nothing blocking your closeness. This means that everything comes up for healing that you haven't previously healed. Everything!

When twins reunite, both of them experience an acceleration of their spiritual growth and awakening. They get on the fast track of learning about esoteric wisdom and experiencing other states of consciousness. They usually haven't been together all that often during their series of lives on the planet, and so their backgrounds may be different. Yet, there is a closeness and similarities of spirit that are almost uncanny, noticed in many ways, such as looking back at yourself when you look at your mate, and a remembering of the distant past when you first split up. Guidance is strong with these relationships, and usually one or both have a good channel for communication with Spirit. Their connection is telepathic, and hugging each other is like coming home for nourishment.

Source:Soul Evolution.org

As Always

:angel:

AllOverAgain

27-09-2010, 06:19 PM

For me there is unconditional love possibility for humans on daily basis is a mother love to a child. It is like God's love to us. Historical example is Jesus Christ. I already have been talking about it in my previous post.

This is what I meant. Between man and woman I said the closest we can get to unconditional love is soul mate love. This is what this thread was about right? :)

Ahhh, I think I got you now. Boy, that took me long :lol: Thanks for your patience. Somehow your talking about someone having to die for it being unconditional love throw me completely off track first.

I tend to agree with Favoritune though. Of course I don't mean that in the way of taking sides, I love to hear everyone's point of view. It's great that humankind is so far today that we can agree to disagree :)

I am sorry but I have to say again in my opinion the taking of ANY life is selfishness! This story portrays a jealous enraged lady who is about to take the life of the woman who was with the man she wanted to have but instead chooses to commit suicide. She did not give up her life she took it! Her thoughts were murder or self murder and both or wrong in the scenario depicted.

To compare such an action to Jesus' dting on the cross to stand in our stead is totally wrong because He allowed people to kill him, He did not commit suicide.

[...]

To me that story line seems like a childish adult who can't have their own way throwing a fit. Enraged she wants to kill the woman who has what she wants then realizing the great remorse she would feel for breaking the heart of the man she loved so she instead chooses to take her own life rather than find the strength to carry on and trust that life had love for her.

I think unconditional love for someone else always involves unconditional love for yourself first (as much as imperfect humans are capable of course, as we discussed before). Otherwise I would rather call it dependency. If you don't want to live your life without someone you do not love them unconditionally, rather you put pressure on them - "Be with me or I will kill myself". And just because that person may not be with you or love you doesn't mean you don't mean a lot to them in other ways, or that there isn't someone else who you will fall in love with at a later point and can happily be with. I think the story is more about a hurt ego than unconditional love.

Thanks for all the definitions, Sdeidjs.

I would hate to see anyone leaving this thread because I appreciate everyone's posts so much, but if you feel in your heart that you have to move on I wish you all the best. I just hope it won't be too soon for anyone in here and we can still enjoy what you all have to say :) :heart:

Lisha

27-09-2010, 06:35 PM

Lashi, the reason why I started posting here is because I loved reading your posts and this is why I decided to share my own thoughts.:huggy:
Also MP posts inspired me to think deeper into something I did not do before. We are learning together about love. Shearing opinions is wonderful thing to do.:)
But, really do what God tells you to do :heart: I can understand it.
Thank you, Asedora and I appreciate how understanding you are being, and others here, too! And yes, MP's posts rock!

and Lashi, I just wanted to say that if you've ever seen the movie What About Bob? !
Never seen it! I'll check it out. :)

Hi guys,

Asedora, even the ending is tragic! A souless extended non life of watering flowers with tears???

I am sorry but I have to say again in my opinion the taking of ANY life is selfishness! This story portrays a jealous enraged lady who is about to take the life of the woman who was with the man she wanted to have but instead chooses to commit suicide. She did not give up her life she took it! Her thoughts were murder or self murder and both or wrong in the scenario depicted.

To compare such an action to Jesus' dting on the cross to stand in our stead is totally wrong because He allowed people to kill him, He did not commit suicide.

I am kind of yelling with a bleeding heart right now because I am frustrated and sad all at once listening to this story and thinking some of MJ's fans can relate to that.

Again I ask, if there is someone who is meant to be with Michael and this lady saw him with Lisa Presley after they were married and took her own life, where would that leave Michael after he and Lisa divorced? Answer the same question concerning Debbie Rowe?

Only God knows what the future holds in it's entirety, no one should give up on life or hate another to the point of murder.

If this mermaid in the story line was in love with Michael and his bride that she saw him with was Lisa Mary Presley if the mermaid committed suicide where would Michael be if she were the one for him?

To me that story line seems like a childish adult who can't have their own way throwing a fit. Enraged she wants to kill the woman who has what she wants then realizing the great remorse she would feel for breaking the heart of the man she loved so she instead chooses to take her own life rather than find the strength to carry on and trust that life had love for her.

I am sorry if you can feel my frustration from the words I am writing and though I feel like I am yelling I am not yelling at you, just the thought of such a desperate depression makes me livid and sad for any who might feel that way.

I have read many of your posts which I think are so eloquent, intelligent and outright beautiful so please do not take my ranting as an attack against you in any way, rather it is my compassion towards your views that I exert.

Lashi?

You were joking? That wasn't funny!

I hope God doesn't want you to leave anytime soon and I may put in some selfish prayers concerning that:)

I don't mind you posting opposing views to what I wrote. We may not agree or I may see things from a different viewpoint, we're all still growing.

I think that you would say something along the lines of Jesus died because of unconditional love for humanity but had humanity not sinned there would be no need for His unconditional love to be shown in such an extreme complete extent. That is all I was saying. I know it is His love that compelled Him to allow Himself to die but again it is our sins that made there be a need for Him to die.

This is too deep and sad. Am I chasing people away? Maybe I should be the one to stop posting?

How many more posts do I need for my messages to show up before the day is gone?

Who knows where to find that interview of Michael's vocal coach? Is that on this site?

Man! You're fiesty! :D (btw, congrats on your 20 posts and becoming a full-fledged member now!)

Okay, obviously The Little Mermaid is a fictional fairytale. And when fables and such want to give us moral teachings they use extremes.

When I am talking about fans that feel jealousy over MJ having been with some other chick than them, I am not talking about a jealous fan who is also unstable. It's never going to be "okay" to stand over your female rival with a knife in your hand with the intention of harming her. That goes without saying.

I'm not sure if I read the actually story of The Little Mermaid or if I am remembering an animated Japanese version I saw years ago based on it. But to memory, the situation the mermaid created for herself, because she wanted something outside of her world, gave her few options at the end. She gave up her tail and "oneness" with the sea, which represents who she was created to be, and therefore her identity and destiny. God was not sought out by her...God was not included in this story...instead she went to a Sea Witch.
The bargain with the Sea Witch was she had to get the prince to fall in love with her and marry her by a certain time or she would die. That's being pretty much locked into something.

Even if she had elimated the prince's new wife, it was too late to save herself now.

The beauty of the ending of the story I remember, which differs from what Asedora has shared, is she goes to the edge of the ship and is called out to once again be "one" with the sea. Instead of death, she becomes seafoam and for eternity is where she has always belonged. The impression I get is that as a mermaid she would never have died, but would remain immortal as long as she stayed in the sea where she belonged. It is a bitter-sweet story, but you can see like many myths and fables, it has some lessons to teach.

When I use something for an illustration, I am always only speaking of the isolated reference to the story, or the film, whatever, that I am taking the example from. I never meant to imply that you could slot the jealous fan, MJ, and the LITD girl smack into the characters of The Little Mermaid and follow the story straight through and you'd have a match.

I was using the part I shared of the story to illustrate that one can feel jealousy while still loving someone very much, but maybe first they have to have something occur to make them realize they do. In this case, it took the Little mermaid seeing how happy and how much in love he was with his new bride. In her jealousy, she was only able to think of herself (as we do) and couldn't get past it long enough to really see that he was so very happy. Once it got through to her, the jealousy in her heart lifted and she made the right choice. Choice to commit suicide? No. Her time was out regardless due to the bargain she made with the sea witch. But she chose to leave that world and return to the sea where she belonged with her heart in the right place. That is freeing.

AllOverAgain

27-09-2010, 07:06 PM

The beauty of the ending of the story I remember, which differs from what Asedora has shared, is she goes to the edge of the ship and is called out to once again be "one" with the sea. Instead of death, she becomes seafoam and for eternity is where she has always belonged. The impression I get is that as a mermaid she would never have died, but would remain immortal as long as she stayed in the sea where she belonged. It is a bitter-sweet story, but you can see like many myths and fables, it has some lessons to teach.

When I use something for an illustration, I am always only speaking of the isolated reference to the story, or the film, whatever, that I am taking the example from. I never meant to imply that you could slot the jealous fan, MJ, and the LITD girl smack into the characters of The Little Mermaid and follow the story straight through and you'd have a match.

I was using the part I shared of the story to illustrate that one can feel jealousy while still loving someone very much, but maybe first they have to have something occur to make them realize they do. In this case, it took the Little mermaid seeing how happy and how much in love he was with his new bride. In her jealousy, she was only able to think of herself (as we do) and couldn't get past it long enough to really see that he was so very happy. Once it got through to her, the jealousy in her heart lifted and she made the right choice. Choice to commit suicide? No. Her time was out regardless due to the bargain she made with the sea witch. But she chose to leave that world and return to the sea where she belonged with her heart in the right place. That is freeing.

Now this is a completely different ending from the one Asedora shared and I can see what you mean. This ending is about accepting and letting go whereas I am still of the opinion that the other ending is about dependency.

Ashtanga

27-09-2010, 07:08 PM

This is too deep and sad. Am I chasing people away? Maybe I should be the one to stop posting?
:hug:

No..... Do not do it. I hope you keep up the good jog here. :yes: Will always exist different opinions and it's always very interesting to read them. Everyone here has some thoughts very interesting. I hope to keep seeing your posts and others too... :cheeky:

Who knows where to find that interview of Michael's vocal coach? Is that on this site?
Here:

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94235

Asedora

27-09-2010, 07:43 PM

edited

Rubi

27-09-2010, 09:17 PM

The times they sure are a'changin' - and fast! It can be scary, but, like an acticle I read just today about the saints in the old testament, when God told them to "Go!" they just went! They didn't even know where they were going, they just walked by faith! They are my heroes! I want to be like that!

I feel God is placing many of us on some kind of journey. I think we should all pray for each other since sometimes journeys (and transitions) can be pretty rough.

I hope it is in God's will for me to be here just a little longer since this thread and everyone in it has meant so much to me. But, if it doesn't fit into His plan for my life, I will accept it and move forward. There is sadness in my heart, but I am giving myself permission to be excited as well!

I hope we will all enjoy the journeys God has chosen to set us on and I hope we will all meet up again just around the bend.:angel:

The right words at the right time!
It fits perfectly for what I'm living, but it is only God. I just want more and more trust in HIS purpose.

Thanks for the words, MP. I prayed in Jesus' name, it seems that the answer came through you ... :)

And reminds me of the lines of ¨The Fish That Was Thirsty¨ and also the verses of a song Brazil (one of my favorites):

¨i was told, but/I came here/For to ask of Pilgrimage and Prayer/Peace in tempest/ I do not know how to pray/ Just wanted to show/ My look ¨

This discussion is really fascinating. It has the power of love

8701girl

28-09-2010, 02:46 AM

[QUOTE=Lily;2996758 The beauty about this thread is that we are continuously reminded that the one thing that last forever is love. It's timeless. [/QUOTE]

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

You are totally right

8701girl

28-09-2010, 02:49 AM

Guys, I am not going to answer to everybody's post cos I am kinda busy today working on my MJ project.

IIt even nicer if you get married MJ fan. :lol: It is rare but I heard stories like that.

Ohh an mj project cool :wild: wish u good luck with that, hope it goes well.

I :pray: that i will one day find a man who is also a mj fan....but i dont think my wish will be granted. But im so happy for u asedora that u found someone to share mjs music with :D

Asedora

28-09-2010, 03:35 AM

Ohh an mj project cool :wild: wish u good luck with that, hope it goes well.

I :pray: that i will one day find a man who is also a mj fan....but i dont think my wish will be granted. But im so happy for u asedora that u found someone to share mjs music with :D

I will pray for you too :pray: You have to believe it and you will find him. Trust me. As for me I did not marry MJ fan, I am too old for that . Maybe next life? :lol:

Favoritetune

28-09-2010, 07:05 AM

8701girl

28-09-2010, 01:07 PM

I will pray for you too :pray: You have to believe it and you will find him. Trust me. As for me I did not marry MJ fan, I am too old for that . Maybe next life? :lol:

LOL..whoops :blush: sorry i got it wrong....must have been someone else that did.

8701girl

28-09-2010, 01:08 PM

8701 Thank you!!!.

Your welcome :D

Sdeidjs

28-09-2010, 04:37 PM

Asedora, are you married? Can you tell us about the project you are working on?

Thank you for the 20 post congratulations Lashi, let's see if it works.

Why is everyone thinking they are going to be leaving?

8701 Thank you!!! Thanks to all the others including Allover Again (Nice name by the way) for the posts.

As long as there is unconditional/everlasting L.O.V.E in the air...

As promised; I WILL Forever Be Here, There, and Everywhere~~~

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For the Eyes of Truth and Justice Are Always Watching~~~

As Always

:angel:

Favoritetune

28-09-2010, 06:23 PM

That's been my favorite song lately. Thank you for posting that Sdeidjs!

Asedora, are you saying MJ fans are too young for you or that you are too old to get married?

Well, just to keep a discussion going, I think Mysterious Phoenix was going to write about curses. I think Michael being so full of light was a magnet for evil forces to try to take him down. I think many people perhaps without even realizing it spoke curses over his life and if there is a litdg then if she is spiritually attuned she would have had to battle a lot of this in the spirit. I don't know if Michael would have been able to pray through so much evil alone. I am also sure many of Michael's fans aided him by lifting their prayers on his behalf.

Do you guys think Michael was afraid of hurting his fans so instead he sacrificed himself and his litdg? Maybe he thought the fans felt he should be with them or no one at all? Maybe the closer he got to this litdg the more it scared him because the more likely it seemed he would cause others hurt.

In don't walk away he says he "just can't find the right words to say," he tries but all his "pain gets in the way" What pain? Fear of being hurt or fear of hurting? Both or something entirely different? What do you think he means?

Thinking on that question now, maybe it's that he lost her before and he wanted to speak but had so much hurt from losing her that he couldn't get the words out... Maybe in this song song he is expressing a love so great that everyday they were apart his pain grew.

But what if at some point they were faced withthe thought of possibly causing others pain, what would they have done? Hurt eachother knowing it would kill them both or risk the possibility of causing others pain, if there is a litdg?

I read Asedoras story about the mermaid and think of Michael's fans and it seems to me if he was seeing things that way he would die inside not wanting to hurt others.

I think of You Are Not Alone and there is a very strong message there. I think he knew his marriage with Lisa Marie would not last and he wanted people to know without knowing.

I'd really like to know what your takes are on the other songs Don't Walk Away and Fall Again.

What should MJ and his litdg have done if she existed? Died with a broken heart for fear of breaking others?

Lisha

28-09-2010, 08:04 PM

Favoritetune, that was a great post; really, really good.

Being there for Michael...being there for anyone...what's it mean?

There are some friends that were a part of my life in my past that will never, ever part from my heart. There are just some people that we come across that we just know we will always want the best for their life; and our heart will always be filled with warmth when we think about them. I already feel that way about MP; I will always want the Lord's best for her in her life and will always think of her with fondness...even after she is long gone from this place. Those warm feelings for her won't go away.

Now some of these friends of mine I have not seen or spoken with for over twenty years...but they have not left my heart. Just the other day I was thinking of them and thanking the Lord that He had brought them in my life for a season of time. If I saw them today, something tells me we would pick up where we left off and still care very much. I believe this is because there are some in our lives that God creates a godly soul-tie with; like He did with Jonathan and David in the Bible. They both knew that there friendship tie would be there forever.

Do you have to be right there in someone's life to still keep them in your heart? And if they always remain in your heart, in a way, are you still being there for them? Isn't that the message MJ ws trying to get across in YANA and a couple other songs...even though he wasn't in his LITD girl's life (or his fans) he was still there. How? Throught a spiritual connection?

If I had a godly soul-tie friendship formed with MJ and he got all pouty because I decided to not be visible to him anymore online due to God calling me to other things, then, oh boy...I'd have to hand that one over to God and say...get him lined up, God, with this...help him be understanding and less selfish. (not that I think he was the type that would have been).

One could argue that "seeing" her (his LITD girl) around in some capacity was important to him based on us hearing him sing pointedly, "Keeping her around, keeping her around" during the TII rehearsals. But still, that could just mean his being able to "pick her up" as being around through their spiritual connection. And if for some reason MJ had to be out of sight because it was God telling him to do so, should his LITD girl be pouty because it's too hard for her not being able to see him in some way or know what is going on? I should hope not! It should be far more important to her that her man is obeying God no matter what the cost to their relationship, and she should trust both MJ and God and wait in faith. (I am remembering that speech where MJ talked about others saying things like: "Where is he?...or...There he is again!" so he did at times disappear from view for awhile)

If God is behind their love for each other, it will remain steadfast and they will BE there for each other (even if not seen as being around) as they wait on God to work all things into good for them. And they should still be able to "feel" each other, but even if that for some reason abates, they need to stand on their love anyway...just like with God at times, sometimes He will feel more distant to us at times than others...yet, this should not change our faith or knowing His love for us, even...if we can't feel it. But "feeling it" seems to have been crucial to MJ as far as feeling the love from his fans and his LITD girl (iif she exists).

When you initially brought up the songs, Favoritetune, Don't Walk Away, and Fall Again, and asked the question how can he stop losing her? ...and, what was he wanting her to do? I was thinking that he was emphasizing to "her" the importance to him that he always continues to feel her through that spiritual connection. He won't feel he is "losing her" if he knows she is still having her thoughts pointed towards him. Because of his unique situation of his celebrity and his sensitivity to things and his feelings of loneliness...staying connected has a strong importance to him, I think...like a lifeline. It seems the most valuable thing to him, is that he knows she cares, even if he can't see her or be with her.

He made it a point to say to her in the adlibs of TGIM 2008, that "you know, you know I really care." That is the same thing he wanted from her...to always know and FEEL that she really cares, and by his saying that she knows he really cares in that adlib, then he must have hoped she was able to "feel it" even when he couldn't show her in the ways a man can, when in an actual personal relationship with someone. MJ's life was unique, and he needed her to be willing to get onboard with a unique way for them to relate. Theirs seems to be destined to not be like an everyday love relationship. And what was important to him was something so much deeper than even the physical display (although always nice...not of as much value to him than the strong "divine" connection). That is why he sang, 'It doesn't matter to me how you kiss, touch, love, or hold me." In other words, he viewed what they had, a divine love connection, of greater, and deeper value.

We do know, if we consider this repeated lyric in several of his songs through the years, that he yearned for some physical connectiveness with her. But it wasn't about sex (not that he wouldn't have enjoyed that!) it was just to be able to finally touch her, since he loved her from a far...like gently tough her hand or to softly stroke her face. It reminds me of Wall-E and how much he hungered to just hold Eve's hand. That's all Wall-E wanted...to be able to touch her in that sweet and pure way.

It makes me wonder if MJ finally had a chance (I shouldn' have to say this , but what I am setting up is just for example sake, not that this should ever be possible. Privacy first!) to touch her after longing to for years, and we his fans who have heard his lyrics and picked up on his longing...could sit there in a theater and see up on the screen, just as it was happening for him and her for the first time...there...he is lovingly taking her hand and is feeling all the sensations accompanying it...wouldn't we, wouldn't we all just feel compelled to yell out and hoot and applaud in joy for him, since he waited soooooooo long just to do that with her. We were awfully happy for Wall-E; how much more if it was our beloved Michael. Yes? He's taken us through it all with him through his songs and lyrics. It's like he's saying "You're in on it with me, because you've been paying attention." AllForMJ was paying attention, wasn't she? And so we have this thread.

Hmmm. The pain they would cause, Favoritetune, if they had gotten together and it hurt fans and others? And how they should view it or feel and do about it? I'll save that for another long post, if you don't mind. :)

Asedora

28-09-2010, 08:38 PM

edited

Sdeidjs

29-09-2010, 02:47 AM

Sdeidjs, thank you for posting this. This is a question of terminology. Maybe I did not use a proper one. Sorry if somebody got confused. So, in Michael's case most his fans are his soulmates. Simply speking ppl from the same group, family of souls.
LITD girl is his Twin Flame.

I am married and I have a son 5 y.o. MJ has different fans. Some of them are 14 y.o and some are around his age. And yes I am too old to get married again. I hope it helps.:)

Your very welcome~~~

As Always

:angel:

8701girl

29-09-2010, 02:51 AM

There are some friends that were a part of my life in my past that will never, ever part from my heart. There are just some people that we come across that we just know we will always want the best for their life; and our heart will always be filled with warmth when we think about them. I already feel that way about MP; I will always want the Lord's best for her in her life and will always think of her with fondness...even after she is long gone from this place. Those warm feelings for her won't go away.

I have a friend who i have known all my life and always used to talk to, but now that she has married & got children - we dont speak much at all.

Even though it does hurt that we rarely see or talk to each other now, i still wish her & her family all best. But it does hurt alot that our friendship has died down but i know its time for me to move on & let go slowly

Lisha

29-09-2010, 03:29 AM

I have a friend who i have known all my life and always used to talk to, but now that she has married & got children - we dont speak much at all.

Even though it does hurt that we rarely see or talk to each other now, i still wish her & her family all best. But it does hurt alot that our friendship has died down but i know its time for me to move on & let go slowly

I'm sorry now that I brought something up that caused you to think about a hurtful situation in your own life regarding a friendship. :( And what makes me sad about this having occured in your life is because you have in posts, here and there, in this thread, given me the impression that you do not really see your true worth. And I'm afraid that the way this friendship you mention has waned, that it has made you feel a little rejected. That can affect our self-esteem when that happens; don't let it.

I know you said not too long ago in a post that you feel you would not be "worthy" enough to be MJ's LITD girl. But you have to know, someone special like Michael has been given the gift from God to really "see" a person's worth, and he would have "seen" you...your heart and your value. And God is going to bring others into your life that will be able to as well. Wait on Him. There is a man out there who will have those kind of "seeing" eyes for you. You will know him by the warmth you feel and the acceptance you feel when you are with him. Remember what I've said. One day he'll be there. :better:

8701girl

29-09-2010, 03:36 AM

I'm sorry now that I brought something up that caused you to think about a hurtful situation in your own life regarding a friendship. :( And what makes me sad about this having occured in your life is because you have in posts, here and there, in this thread, given me the impression that you do not really see your true worth. And I'm afraid that the way this friendship you mention has waned, has made you feel a little rejected. That can affect our self-esteem when that happens; don't let it.

I know you said not too long ago in a post that you feel you would not be "worthy" enough to be MJ's LITD girl. But you have to know, someone special like Michael has been given the gift from God to really "see" a person's worth, and he would have "seen" you...your heart and your value. And God is going to bring others into your life that will be able to as well. Wait on Him. There is a man out there who will have those kind of "seeing" eyes for you. You will know him by the warmth you feel and the acceptance you feel when you are with him. Remember what I've said. One day he'll be there. :better:

Theres no need for u to apologise, its ok.

I do admit i have felt my self esteem go down over the years and now i constantly feel anxious & nervous all the time.

But its not so much bout the friendships that have taken me this way- its me all me. I have gotten to a point i have become stuck and dont know how 2 get out of it. And thats proberly the reason why my friends have dissed me.. they just cant understand or simply dont want 2.

I think it maybe too late for that man to come in my life, once i have sorted myself out ....it may be too late.

Lisha

29-09-2010, 03:46 AM

I think it maybe too late for that man to come in my life, once i have sorted myself out ....it may be too late.

I see. You are at a stand still. I understand. You need some kind of helping hand. May I suggest you start with God? He is a pro at getting those who come to Him "unstuck."

If you allow God to help you sort yourself out, once He has done that, it will be perfect timing for that man to come into your life. God is always on time if you trust Him, it will not be too late. But in order to first understand your own true worth, you need to understand how much you are worth to God. Seek Him; ask Him to show you. Then He may bring others into yor life that He will use to reinforce that to you...safe people (but imperfect people like us all, remember that)who will show you acceptance and will not criticize you or make you feel inferior. Give God a chance, ask Him.

Sdeidjs

29-09-2010, 03:49 AM

Theres no need for u to apologise, its ok.

I do admit i have felt my self esteem go down over the years and now i constantly feel anxious & nervous all the time.

But its not so much bout the friendships that have taken me this way- its me all me. I have gotten to a point i have become stuck and dont know how 2 get out of it. And thats proberly the reason why my friends have dissed me.. they just cant understand or simply dont want 2.

I think it
maybe too late for that man to come in my life, once i have sorted myself out ....it may be too late.

It's "never" to late...

When the "right one" comes along you WILL know it..!

Mr.Jackson says it best; Always "Keep The Faith" ~~~

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As Always

:angel:

8701girl

29-09-2010, 03:53 AM

It's "never" to late...

When the "right one" comes along you WILL know it..!

Mr.Jackson says it best; Always "Keep The Faith" ~~~

<object width="480" height="385">

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As Always

:angel:

Awww i :love: that song

Asedora

29-09-2010, 05:40 AM

But its not so much bout the friendships that have taken me this way- its me all me. I have gotten to a point i have become stuck and dont know how 2 get out of it. And thats proberly the reason why my friends have dissed me.. they just cant understand or simply dont want 2.

I think it maybe too late for that man to come in my life, once i have sorted myself out ....it may be too late.

I knew one girl (she was here on MJJC) She told me that Michael was sort of holding her from getting married. She was not interested in other guys but after he passed she somehow managed to move on and even went to another country to meet that guy. But she told me no one will be like Michael. I understand it, but it is very sad. We all look for perfection but the truth is we have to learn how to love somebody who is not that perfect.

Favoritetune

29-09-2010, 07:10 AM

8701girl

29-09-2010, 12:47 PM

I knew one girl (she was here on MJJC) She told me that Michael was sort of holding her from getting the married. She was not interested in other guys but after he passed she somehow managed to move on and even went to another country to meet that guy. But she told me no one will be like Michael. I understand it, but it is very sad. We all look for perfection but the truth is we have to learn how to love somebody who is not that perfect.

Well, we know nothing about universe, we are just humans. All we can do is just to believe. We do not know universal law and how it works, but I am assuming that the faith is very important. Even Jesus was teaching about importance to keeping the faith.

Even MJ who did anything he could to find his LITD girl, did not find her, but even if he did, it would be only in case if this union was set up in Heaven because he sacrificed himself for love. Love is such thing which is VERY difficult to get and from mine point of view it is a main reason for reincarnation. We keep trying over and over by coming back because we all have been separated from our soul flames.

But if it even nothing there after death....., some ppl say... Personally, I do care because if I am dead I simply will not feel anything anymore. It is even better lol. Why to worry? This is how I talk to myself sometimes lol

Oh its not michael thats holding me bck...just other stuff going on with my life and me in general.

I just need someone that will be there for me in the good times and in the bad. And also they need to be in a relationship with me cuz they want 2 be, not cuz someone told them to.

Sdeidjs

29-09-2010, 03:16 PM

Some people believe in reincarnation in steps up the evolutionary ladder, some believe when you die - you cease to exist, some believe in heaven on earth, some believe in heaven and hell...

Out of all the philosophies I have read concerning what occurs after this life is over the one that speaks of heaven and hell seems the wisest to believe. Why? Because IF there is a hell you don't want to go there and should there be a heaven you don't wanna miss it! So it would be extremely foolish in my opinion to overlook what could be the most important decision in life- heaven or hell?

I believe there is someone to love for those who have a heart that cries for love. I believe there is someone there to answer that call but far too many people settle for what they want instead of what God has for them.

Dear Favoritetune;

With regards to your reflection of thoughts about heaven I have a "true story" that I would like share that recently happened close to home...

My sister Deb & I frequently visit mom and friends at the nursing home where she has been residing for the past few years...

One evening about two weeks ago, a son came to visit his mom like he always did on a regular basis. But on this particular day, he received that dreaded call we all fear when the time has come for our elderly parents to move on from this physical plane...

On that night, when he went to visit his mom for the last time, as they held each others hand, she said to him "please don't worry, don't be sad, all my friends and family are here, this place is beautiful, more beautiful than I could have ever imagined... I don't even need my shoes..!"~~~

As he made his way out of his moms room that evening for apparent reason (s) he was sobbing profusely...minutes later his mom passed...

Therefore, I have personally experienced with my pops passing as well as on occasion, seen enough to believe that the phenomenon of God, Heaven, and the Angels are always at work..!:wub:

God Bless

As Always

:angel:

MysteriousPhoenix

29-09-2010, 03:51 PM

... Well, just to keep a discussion going, I think Mysterious Phoenix was going to write about curses. I think Michael being so full of light was a magnet for evil forces to try to take him down. I think many people perhaps without even realizing it spoke curses over his life and if there is a litdg then if she is spiritually attuned she would have had to battle a lot of this in the spirit. I don't know if Michael would have been able to pray through so much evil alone. I am also sure many of Michael's fans aided him by lifting their prayers on his behalf.

Maybe a prayer chain should be started for her, too!

... There are some friends that were a part of my life in my past that will never, ever part from my heart. There are just some people that we come across that we just know we will always want the best for their life; and our heart will always be filled with warmth when we think about them. I already feel that way about MP; I will always want the Lord's best for her in her life and will always think of her with fondness...even after she is long gone from this place. Those warm feelings for her won't go away.

Awww, thank you, Lashi! That really touched my heart. I feel the same about you, too!

... Now some of these friends of mine I have not seen or spoken with for over twenty years...but they have not left my heart. Just the other day I was thinking of them and thanking the Lord that He had brought them in my life for a season of time. If I saw them today, something tells me we would pick up where we left off and still care very much. I believe this is because there are some in our lives that God creates a godly soul-tie with; like He did with Jonathan and David in the Bible. They both knew that there friendship tie would be there forever.

Do you have to be right there in someone's life to still keep them in your heart? And if they always remain in your heart, in a way, are you still being there for them? Isn't that the message MJ ws trying to get across in YANA and a couple other songs...even though he wasn't in his LITD girl's life (or his fans) he was still there. How? Throught a spiritual connection?

If I had a godly soul-tie friendship formed with MJ and he got all pouty because I decided to not be visible to him anymore online due to God calling me to other things, then, oh boy...I'd have to hand that one over to God and say...get him lined up, God, with this...help him be understanding and less selfish. (not that I think he was the type that would have been).

One could argue that "seeing" her (his LITD girl) around in some capacity was important to him based on us hearing him sing pointedly, "Keeping her around, keeping her around" during the TII rehearsals. But still, that could just mean his being able to "pick her up" as being around through their spiritual connection. And if for some reason MJ had to be out of sight because it was God telling him to do so, should his LITD girl be pouty because it's too hard for her not being able to see him in some way or know what is going on? I should hope not! It should be far more important to her that her man is obeying God no matter what the cost to their relationship, and she should trust both MJ and God and wait in faith. (I am remembering that speech where MJ talked about others saying things like: "Where is he?...or...There he is again!" so he did at times disappear from view for awhile)

If God is behind their love for each other, it will remain steadfast and they will BE there for each other (even if not seen as being around) as they wait on God to work all things into good for them. And they should still be able to "feel" each other, but even if that for some reason abates, they need to stand on their love anyway...just like with God at times, sometimes He will feel more distant to us at times than others...yet, this should not change our faith or knowing His love for us, even...if we can't feel it. But "feeling it" seems to have been crucial to MJ as far as feeling the love from his fans and his LITD girl (iif she exists).

When you initially brought up the songs, Favoritetune, Don't Walk Away, and Fall Again, and asked the question how can he stop losing her? ...and, what was he wanting her to do? I was thinking that he was emphasizing to "her" the importance to him that he always continues to feel her through that spiritual connection. He won't feel he is "losing her" if he knows she is still having her thoughts pointed towards him. Because of his unique situation of his celebrity and his sensitivity to things and his feelings of loneliness...staying connected has a strong importance to him, I think...like a lifeline. It seems the most valuable thing to him, is that he knows she cares, even if he can't see her or be with her.

He made it a point to say to her in the adlibs of TGIM 2008, that "you know, you know I really care." That is the same thing he wanted from her...to always know and FEEL that she really cares, and by his saying that she knows he really cares in that adlib, then he must have hoped she was able to "feel it" even when he couldn't show her in the ways a man can, when in an actual personal relationship with someone. MJ's life was unique, and he needed her to be willing to get onboard with a unique way for them to relate. Theirs seems to be destined to not be like an everyday love relationship. And what was important to him was something so much deeper than even the physical display (although always nice...not of as much value to him than the strong "divine" connection). That is why he sang, 'It doesn't matter to me how you kiss, touch, love, or hold me." In other words, he viewed what they had, a divine love connection, of greater, and deeper value.

We do know, if we consider this repeated lyric in several of his songs through the years, that he yearned for some physical connectiveness with her. But it wasn't about sex (not that he wouldn't have enjoyed that!) it was just to be able to finally touch her, since he loved her from a far...like gently tough her hand or to softly stroke her face. It reminds me of Wall-E and how much he hungered to just hold Eve's hand. That's all Wall-E wanted...to be able to touch her in that sweet and pure way.

It makes me wonder if MJ finally had a chance (I shouldn' have to say this , but what I am setting up is just for example sake, not that this should ever be possible. Privacy first!) to touch her after longing to for years, and we his fans who have heard his lyrics and picked up on his longing...could sit there in a theater and see up on the screen, just as it was happening for him and her for the first time...there...he is lovingly taking her hand and is feeling all the sensations accompanying it...wouldn't we, wouldn't we all just feel compelled to yell out and hoot and applaud in joy for him, since he waited soooooooo long just to do that with her. We were awfully happy for Wall-E; how much more if it was our beloved Michael. Yes? He's taken us through it all with him through his songs and lyrics. It's like he's saying "You're in on it with me, because you've been paying attention." AllForMJ was paying attention, wasn't she? And so we have this thread ...

This post was great! And made a lot of sense! Thanks so much for taking the time to write it!

Love.him

29-09-2010, 04:41 PM

Doubt it. He knew some would be happy for him & some wouldn't. I think if Michael had been able to be happily married permanently he's still be with us.

"Do you guys think Michael was afraid of hurting his fans so instead he sacrificed himself and his litdg? Maybe he thought the fans felt he should be with them or no one at all? Maybe the closer he got to this litdg the more it scared him because the more likely it seemed he would cause others hurt."

Favoritetune

29-09-2010, 08:27 PM

Love.him, Nice insight! Thanks for replying!

Lashi, I wanted to give you props on your beautiful posts to 8701. I wanted to reply and encourage her when I read the post but it seems you touched it all.

8701, God bless you! It'll get better.

Sdeidjs, Thank you for sharing that story with us! I have heard MANY like this including some on the more cryptic side of things illustrating hell. One of which I heard came from an atheist on his death bed. I was told he started screaming about the fire and "them coming for him." It was really sad and morbid...

One of the reasons I say people should consider that there is a hell is because even if you don't believe it is better to be precautious and prepared than unaware. Some religions don't believe in hell. I spoke to one wonderful woman and she asked how could there be a fire that never ends and pain that never goes away or something along those lines. I asked her how the sun has managed to burn for so long and wouldn't it be possible for God. When she had asked me about the pain she may have said people could get used to but I just thought of my brother who had a toothache when I was a kid and his pain did not end until he went to the dr. If so there is a hell the bible warns more times than I counted and it talks of it being eternal. Who wants that?

Some people say they don't want to live in fear and think of such things but as I am writing just now I thought about people warning about driving in the desert and how to keep the car from overheating and how some disregard the advice and how people are advised when going through long patches of untravelled land to get gas whenever close to half a tank... Sorry to say many have broken down from their cars overheating and lack of gas for not heading advice and wanting to not be afraid. Some hances aren't worth taking.

Asedora, you said "But if it even nothing there after death....., some ppl say... Personally, I do care because if I am dead I simply will not feel anything anymore. It is even better lol. Why to worry? This is how I talk to myself sometimes lol"

A lot of people think this way and that is a big if to chance. Some people (obviously not saying you do nor am I implying all) feel they have no one to answer to and they are free to do whatever, however to whomever etcetera. Wont they be surprised if they are wrong.

I think of the bible telling us about hell like our parents warning us of spankings or other punishements to keep us in line. Some kids are good and they just do right others climb the fence of the borders of right and fear is very useful. Some may say why should a child fear but I ask when they grow up and walk into the real world not knowing punishment and reprecussion what then? If so be there is a great creator, which I wholeheartedly believe there is without an ounce of doubt, I think He too has consequences and compassion. His compassion was expressed in the death of Jesus Christ if we reject that then all else is on us. That is our choice not His doing.

Mysterious Phoenix, That was a sweet idea about a prayer chain for a litdg but his fans would likely pray against her and that is probably what she has battled amidst praying for him. Maybe it would be better for any who care to pray in privately. Beautiful thought though if she were to exist and read it I bet it would bring tears to her eyes if she is sappy like that.

Okay, Lashi where is the rest of that post?

MP, What else do you know about curses? I know love breaks them.

Sdeidjs

29-09-2010, 08:41 PM

"This video collaboration was one of Mr.Michael Jackson's personal projects with some Friend (s) of his they created for all the Orphaned Children Of The World..!" (c) 2009 :wub:

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God Bless

L.O.V.E Always

:angel:

Favoritetune

29-09-2010, 08:51 PM

Wow! Sdeidjs, thank you for posting that! Makes you want to hug and kiss each one of them and again my favorite song for now.

Ashtanga

29-09-2010, 10:13 PM

:o

I loooooooooooove this thread. :wub: :heart: :girl_in_love: :give_heart: :give_rose: :blush: Wonderful thoughts.... :clapping: I really have nothing to say. I feel that my journey ended in this thread. :yes: So now I'm just observing here.... :shifty:

http://www.gifanatics.com/files/Jackson_popcorn.gif

:cheers:

Asedora

29-09-2010, 11:35 PM

Oh its not michael thats holding me bck...just other stuff going on with my life and me in general.

I just need someone that will be there for me in the good times and in the bad. And also they need to be in a relationship with me cuz they want 2 be, not cuz someone told them to.

Sorry, I did not mean that Michael was holding you back from starting your realtionships with guys. I just said that I heard stories like that. I hope you will be all right. If I ever would tell my life story to anybody ppl will ask me how did I go trough this hell. So, I prefer not to and I just keep going and I take whatever comes, and just deal with this. Life is not an easy thing, just do what you have to do.:)

To everybody:

Personally, I do not believe in hell existence. I do believe in Jesus Christ but not in hell.
Take care :flowers:

Favoritetune

30-09-2010, 01:40 AM

Asedora,

Please be careful. It seems that you are taking guidance that tells you there is another chance after this life to get things right. Seize today! This is the life that matters, your second chance is already here. Some people think that they regress and progress until they get it right but if they are wrong and it does boil down to heaven or hell then that's it game over- no replay.

Asedora

30-09-2010, 01:57 AM

edited

Sdeidjs

30-09-2010, 02:06 AM

After deep thought and review of the many beautiful reflection of thoughts in this thread for many moons...I find myself sharing some reflective thoughts of strength, knowledge, and everlasting L.O.V.E of the Heart (s)~~~

Again, some may be a bit perplexed while others will become truly enlightened;

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oy5ItHenibo?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oy5ItHenibo?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

May GOD continue to Bless YOU in all that YOU do and keep YOU FOREVER safe from harms way~~~

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z2mrOXCsWD4?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z2mrOXCsWD4?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

God Bless

L.O.V.E Always

:angel:

Ashtanga

30-09-2010, 02:20 AM

8701girl

30-09-2010, 02:35 AM

8701, God bless you! It'll get better.

Aww thanx :hug: God bless u too.

8701girl

30-09-2010, 02:37 AM

Sorry, I did not mean that Michael was holding you back from starting your realtionships with guys. I just said that I heard stories like that. I hope you will be all right. If I ever would tell my life story to anybody ppl will ask me how did I go trough this hell. So, I prefer not to and I just keep going and I take whatever comes, and just deal with this. Life is not an easy thing, just do what you have to do.:)

To everybody:

Personally, I do not believe in hell existence. I do believe in Jesus Christ but not in hell.
Take care :flowers:

Thats ok, just do what u feel is right for u :)

I was always taught in church in my primary school days that hell was for the ppl that did bad in their life and those who did good will be in gods eternal world. I dont know if i belive in it cuz i havent well lived that yet lol...guess i'll know when that day comes when i die.

MysteriousPhoenix

30-09-2010, 03:03 AM

Today is the Feast Day of St. Michael the Archangel ~ Sept. 29.

Sdeidjs

30-09-2010, 03:06 AM

Today is the Feast Day of St. Michael the Archangel ~ Sept. 29.

:angel:

Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~:wub:

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/2281q9JgNQw?fs=1&hl=en_US width=480 height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

God Bless

L.O.V.E Always

:angel:

Lisha

30-09-2010, 03:20 AM

Sdeidjs, that was such a nice story you shared about the woman in the nursing home and her son. I am glad that you and your sister were there for that son during and after her passing. How cute his mother mentions that she doesn't even need shoes where she was a goin'. :)

MP, What else do you know about curses? I know love breaks them.

How do you mean "love breaks them?"

8701girl

30-09-2010, 03:23 AM

How do you mean "love breaks them?"

I think he means how they can destory love

Lisha

30-09-2010, 03:29 AM

I think he means how they can destory love

Actually when one speaks of curses and getting rid of them, they use the phrase "breaking" the curse or "breaking it off" of someone. So here I am thinking Favoritetune is saying that Love has the power to break a curse off of someone.

I am curious on what exactly Fav (your name is too long for a poor typist like me) is meaning on how Love can do that. I guess I would like an example.

8701girl

30-09-2010, 03:31 AM

Actually when one speaks of curses and getting rid of them, they use the phrase "breaking" the curse or "breaking it off" of someone. So here I am thinking Favoritetune is saying that Love has the power to break a curse off of someone.

I am curious on what exactly Fav (your name is too long for a poor typist like me) is meaning on how Love can do that. I guess I would like an example.

Well love is a very powerful thing, if its strong enough- it will withstand anything thats stands in its way.

Lisha

30-09-2010, 04:03 AM

^ That was very well worded, 8701girl! :flowers:

Favoritetune

30-09-2010, 02:58 PM

This is my PERSONAL belive and do not push anybody to believe what I think and do not belive in hell period. I hope it is clear now. Yes, yes, yes, I do believe in reincarnation cos it makes a lot of sense but it does not mean that do not try to do my best TODAY. And I do believe that God is LOVE but not an evil person who wants his children to go to hell. I am not going to change my own beleve system I was working on for 20 years long reading each religios/historical book I ever seen. Please, keep it in mind.
Thank you.

PS And I edited my previous post in order to keep it without an argument.

No fare that you edited, now if anyone reads what I said to you it wont make any sense and I will sound crazy:)

Can you explain to me what you mean when you say that you do "believe God is LOVE but not an evil person who wants his children to go to hell?"

I am perplexed on this.

The bible says that "hell was created for the devil and his angels" but that it has enlarged itself. Why? To hold a greater occupancy of people wanting to follow the devil.

Satan is known as the great deceiver and we also know he can appear as an angel of light. When we read how he tempted Jesus on Mount Olives we see he is also familiar with scripture, but remember he is a deceiver.

Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life - no one comes to the Father but by me.

We know but of two ways if we believe scripture- to follow Jesus or satan which leads to life or death, heaven or hell.

What is deception, I am going to look up the dictionary term real quick:

–noun
1. the act of deceiving; the state of being deceived.
2. something that deceives or is intended to deceive; fraud; artifice.

—Synonyms
2. trick, stratagem, ruse, wile, hoax, imposture

The terms listed above- Satan is great at.

Some people want to create their own way and not go God's way and to each their own. Satan tried to do things his way and he was cast out of heaven and the cause of hell.

Does it make God evil for creating reprecussion for sin? God doesn't want mankind to go to hell but He did give us free will, so now it's our choice ever since Jesus died on the cross. I hope you don't blame God for those who deny the gift of Christ thinking they can create something better. I think it was God who created the universe and am certain none who reside on this planet earth could do better.

He created Michael Jackson! How awesome is that?

I'm not trying to change you- only God can do that but he gave you free will.

I think it's great that you study! Twenty years is great!

Are you famiar with the Holy Spirit?

Lashi, 8701 summed it up pretty well- love conquers all.

Thanks for posting more videos Sdeidjs! I will watch them later/

Peace!!!

Asedora

30-09-2010, 03:42 PM

Are you famiar with the Holy Spirit?

Do you want me to make to feel down? It is bad idea and wasting of time. Yes, I am familiar with Holy Spirit concept maybe more than most folks because I was baptized in Orthodox Church. And if you know anything about Orthodox Christianity and philosophical aspects developed in Orthodox Christianity including Orthodox dogma, you should be aware that Holy Spirit and Holy Trinity are parts of this concept since the beginning of Christianity. If you wish to continue an argument, I am not going to do it here. We had another thread on this board you can express yourself and what do you think about religion. I just want to say: what is available for some ppl is not available for others. This thread btw is not about religion.

Have a nice day

MysteriousPhoenix

30-09-2010, 04:01 PM

MP, What else do you know about curses? I know love breaks them.

All You Need Is Love?

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/r4p8qxGbpOk?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/r4p8qxGbpOk?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Lisha

30-09-2010, 04:12 PM

Asedora, I am just going to share with you what I feel the Lord has been showing me about you, and that is...

He is wooing you to Him. He is showing you more and more of His love. I can tell from the things you post. And like it is said above, Love conquers all. If at this point in your studying, "a hell" does not make sense to you, but God loving you does, then move forward in God with that. And if there is ever anything in the Bible that does not make sense to you (for as you know, "hell" is mentioned in the Bible), then ask God to make His meaning of it understandable to you, and in time, He will. I do all the time; we all do...the Bible is not always immediately clear in what it is telling us. But if it is in the Bible, there is some reason for it, and He is the one who can in His way and timing show you. Just ask.

But you know God is Love and He loves you. That.Is.Wonderful!

Again, discussion on the things of the Lord and faith will come up in this thread because of who MJ was and his perspective...it had everything to do with God. That would include his love for his LITD girl.

Remember, recently I cautioned for us all in here to not let any one post, or a particular individual's opinion offend us.

~ btw, just to start trouble, for I live for that (just kidding!) I do not believe all you need is LOVE to break a curse and other demonic influences...and I have scripture to back it up along with my own personal experiences.

MysteriousPhoenix

30-09-2010, 04:37 PM

~ btw, just to start trouble, for I live for that (just kidding!) I do not believe all you need is LOVE to break a curse and other demonic influences...and I have scripture to back it up along with my own personal experiences.

Ohhhh, a wise guy, eh? Why I oughtta ... (Just funnin' ya! You and I both know how MJ loved his Three Stooges!:lol: )

Actually, I know exactly what you're talking about since I have my own Scriptural Curses/Demon/Spiritual Warfare Ammo Power Pack and I aim it regularly at that ol' scoundrel devil ... in rat-a-tat-tat fashion!:western:('Cause MP means business! I just tell him, "I think what we have heeya is failiah to communicate!")

Asedora

30-09-2010, 04:52 PM

MysteriousPhoenix

30-09-2010, 05:18 PM

Group Hug!:group:

Asedora

30-09-2010, 05:27 PM

Group Hug!:group:

:heart: :hug::hug:

wendijane

30-09-2010, 06:02 PM

:heart: :hug::hug:
:heart: Wub .love to all here :huggy:

8701girl

01-10-2010, 02:33 AM

^ That was very well worded, 8701girl! :flowers:

Thanx

Group Hug!:group:

:group:

Sdeidjs

01-10-2010, 03:24 AM

Something MOST Enlightening happened to me today...

It "touched" me so deeply, and for whatever reason (s) that I cannot explain (so please do not ask) this experience prompted me to create THIS Reflection Of Thought~~~

"I never quite figured out WHY YOU always treated/acted the way YOU do/did throughout the years..."UNTIL" today...

Whether or not YOU ever "took the time" to realize this or not...I have been there done that where YOU are currently in life..!

Therefore...

"People that LIVE in glass bubble (s) should "NEVER" throw stones. No matter how hard YOU "THINK" YOU work, how much YOU "THINK" YOU "PAY" to society, how much money YOU earn, how many material possessions YOU accumulated by marriage, and or inheritance etc. etc. etc.

One (s) should "NEVER" prejudge or judge another, nor "EVER" forget where one comes from; because one day, it could be taken ALL away from YOU in an instant...

Money is NOT everything...Love, Health, Knowledge, and the Pursuit of Happiness IS..!"

(c) 2010

God Bless

L.O.V.E Always

:angel:

8701girl

01-10-2010, 03:34 AM

Lashi, 8701 summed it up pretty well- love conquers all.

Yes it certainly does.

Sdeidjs

01-10-2010, 03:40 AM

Focusing on the Subject of Interest...The Inception of this thread;

Here's a "definite" favorite for all the "L.O.V.E.R.S" of the World~~~

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/CaGcDYENzg4?fs=1&hl=en_US width=480 height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

On that note..."It's ALL About The L.O.V.E..!~~~"

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/0k_Vsmqf6X8?fs=1&hl=en_US width=480 height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

It truly IS A "Wonderful" Life"..!~~~ "THINK" ABOUT IT..!~~~

God Bless

L.O.V.E Always

:angel:

Dedicated to Mr.Michael Jackson and His~~~

"The Journal Of Reflections Of Thought..."TRUTH" OF JUSTICE NOTHING IS BLACK OR WHITE...Psalm 37~~~" (c) 1995

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/EoRULG4kmZw?fs=1&hl=en_US width=480 height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/juvn7gykiPo?fs=1&hl=en_US width=480 height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

Psalm 37~~~

L.O.V.E Always

:angel:

‎"Whatever happens to "US" in the past will "forever" change the future..!"~~~

Author Unknown Paraphrased by Susie Deeds

God Bless

L.O.V.E Always~~~

:angel:

Lorraine

01-10-2010, 08:39 AM

Sdeidjs

01-10-2010, 04:56 PM

sdeidjs,
I see you are continuing to ignore all requests to stop double/triple posting in this thread.. You have shown that you do know how to multi quote and edit a posts and yet you still continue to break one of Gaz's board rules. I ask, Yet again. Please do not do this. Thank you. :)

Posts merged.

I am not double posting on purpose...Susie can be a technological duppa head sometimes...

Again Please forgive me..!

As Always

:angel:

Lisha

01-10-2010, 05:09 PM

I am not double posting on purpose...Susie can be a technological duppa head sometimes...

Susie, I come in here And see this....

Time and time again I do not understand your behavior.

It is impossible for someone to accidently double post WHEN the content in each post is different from the others. Why are you openly lying to Lorraine?

It is possible for the server to act up and we discover that a duplicate post of the one we meant to post has happened. The content in both are exactly the same. When that happens, a conscientious member simply deletes the duplicated content out of one of their posts and adds "accidental double post" to it, and then hits the report button explaining to staff what happened and asks for the post to please be removed. This keeps the threads tidy.

I didn't see the posts here in question this morning, but if Lorraine, a senior staff member, had to "edit in" the content of your other posts into one, than that tells me the content in each of your posts were different from the others...they had a unique thought or theme you wanted to discuss/post. Right?

Please do not lie to a staff member about this. Why you would is beyond me.

And if I am seeing this incorrectly, please tell me. I just want to understand you behavior, for I do not.

Lorraine

01-10-2010, 05:22 PM

Oh, We have a thanks button in here now. :)

Susie, I can't understand either that you don't realise that you are doing it. :scratch: But ok.. Apology accepted, Again.... But PLEASE don't keep doing it. :praying lol

Lisha

01-10-2010, 05:31 PM

Wow! If others had difficulty taking The Love in The Dark thread seriously before, how much more of a problem will they have with it... now that the thread is in a forum called, Shoo-be-doo-be-doo-da-day!

I ask you that!!! :lol:

Sdeidjs

01-10-2010, 06:09 PM

Susie, I come in here And see this....

Time and time again I do not understand your behavior.

It is impossible for someone to accidently double post WHEN the content in each post is different from the others. Why are you openly lying to Lorraine?

It is possible for the server to act up and we discover that a duplicate post of the one we meant to post has happened. The content in both are exactly the same. When that happens, a conscientious member simply deletes the duplicated content out of one of their posts and adds "accidental double post" to it, and then hits the report button explaining to staff what happened and asks for the post to please be removed. This keeps the threads tidy.

I didn't see the posts here in question this morning, but if Lorraine, a senior staff member, had to "edit in" the content of your other posts into one, than that tells me the content in each of your posts were different from the others...they had a unique thought or theme you wanted to discuss/post. Right?

Please do not lie to a staff member about this. Why you would is beyond me.

And if I am seeing this incorrectly, please tell me. I just want to understand you behavior, for I do not.

Being an Undergraduate Law Student my schedule tends to get quite hectic with studying, assignments, working, advocating, philanthropy, and The Journal of Reflection of Thoughts TRUTH OF JUSTICE NOTHING IS BLACK OR WHITE - Part 2 (c) 2009

I truly have absolutely NO reason to lie...

Therefore;

"Please do not judge a man/woman until YOU have walked two moccasins in his/her shoes~~~"

Mr. Michael Jackson Paraphrased by Susie

On that note: The key to proper technological protocol = Pay closer attention to the details.

As Always

:angel:

Lisha

01-10-2010, 06:32 PM

Being an Undergraduate Law Student my schedule tends to get quite hectic with studying, assignments, working, advocating, philanthropy, and The Journal of Reflection of Thoughts TRUTH OF JUSTICE NOTHING IS BLACK OR WHITE - Part 2 (c) 2009

I truly have absolutely NO reason to lie...

Therefore;

"Please do not judge a man/woman until YOU have walked two moccasins in his/her shoes~~~"

Mr. Michael Jackson Paraphrased by Susie

On that note: The key to proper technological protocol = Pay closer attention to the details.

As Always

:angel:

I am so glad to hear that you have no reason to lie. That is a very good thing. :)

And, yes, I will judge people's "behavior," with no apologies, and I don't care what Michael Jackson said. He doesn't dictate to me.

If I do judge someone's behavior, it is always with the intent to understand also what may be behind the behavior, and with that understanding often comes softness and compassion. So I seek to understand why a person is doing what they are doing; and I may ask them why. I have asked you why more than once in here. Yet, to be honest, none of your responses have been very satisfying. I never learn the why behind your behavior, so I can then know how to pray and help. I'm left being confused. That's never a good sign. But I'll keep tryin' with ya.

I'm also curious about this, and I will humbly admit that because it's been so long ago since I was in college and got my B.A. degree, that things may have very much changed. But back then, when I knew fellow undergraduate students who were hoping to get into law school, there was no "undergraduate law" degree they could pursue. They were left to seek a major that might be compatible with law, like political science, or maybe, history. Once they got a B.A.(Bachelors of Arts) or B.S.(Bachelors of Science) in something else, they then went on to be accepted into a law school and began to pursue a degree in law. Even a friend of mine who wished to work with lawyers and became a paralegal, she got her degree in history.

So what I am trying to understand, because you are way across the country from me, in Ohio, so it may be different, or times have changed, and so now and there for you in Ohio, universities do offer a B.A. degree in law?

To be honest I am just admittedly ignorant on this sort of thing these days for I am very removed, so I am asking for clarity.

Favoritetune

01-10-2010, 08:19 PM

Okay,

What the heck is going on in here?

I think the devil has come through to stir up chaos, reek havock and take Michael's name away out of this discussion topic.

By the way, who came up with Shoo-be-doo-be-doo-da-day for the name change? It stinks! Furthermore some people may think certain threads no longer exist since the title Michaelmania has been abolished. Who can we talk to, to get that reserected?

Lashi, Your posts are usually like an angel's but it seems your posts to Sdeidjs go a long ways back with frustration and is lacking love. Please be kind. We never know what another person is going through emotionally, physically, spiritually or pretty much anything unless they tell us and they would like still leave more than half of it out.

Your heart comes through your words so well and it seems to have heardened a bit behind her double posting whether intentional or accidental. Don't let it change who you are.

Sdeidjs, Come on lady we LOVE your posts! Don't get the moderators all huffed up about double posting they may restrict you like they did me when I first came here and that would suck. I wonder how many posts people have totally missed since they did not show up for a day later and during the time other messages had come through all grouped in there. Everyone needs to reread the entire thread to see what they missed:)

Seriously though Sdeidjs, my heart aches for you a bit on the way people responded and I'm hoping you're not feeling bad nor am I blaming you or them 'cause it seems there is some past frictions going on but can we all think of Michael and overcome it? Sdeidjs can you try a little harder and think of multi posting as a way of attacking Michael since he was all about the peace and by failing to keep your word it kind of helps to stir up even more chaos? Please don't be offended! I love your posts and would hate to have to wait for them.

Asedora, Wow girl you were hot with me! I didn't even know how to respond to the things you wrote without coming across wrong so I just prayed and decided to give it some time before I responded. Listen, I don't know what religion you are so I was never trying to convert you to anything, besides you said you believed in Jesus. As for believing in hell we each have a choice on that I was sharing my thoughts.

I drove through the desert once and my tank was pretty high so when I saw a gas station I thought I should just wait until the one after that before fueling up. Something inside me started to move me to go ahead and get gas then. I pondered the thought and inquired why should I - I have plenty of gas I can wait a while but that nagging inside me said do it. For safety sake I obeyed that voice inside of me and pulled over and filled my tank then continued driving. Before I saw another open gas station my car was near empty and in the red zone. Had I not listened I didn't have phone reception so I couldn't call anyone to help me. I was driving at night so who knows how safe I would be if I flagged someone down if anyyone did pass by while I was stranded and who knows if they would have stopped. I'm not trying to convince you of anything so please don't get angry or offended. I am only sharing what life and the Holy Spirit has taught me. When God speaks listen and it's better to be an over precautious safe person than a stranded soul in distress.

God bless you guys and those who pray please pray for peace even in here!

Sdeidjs

01-10-2010, 08:19 PM

I am so glad to hear that you have no reason to lie. That is a very good thing. :)

And, yes, I will judge people's "behavior," with no apologies, and I don't care what Michael Jackson said. He doesn't dictate to me.

If I do judge someone's behavior, it is always with the intent to understand also what may be behind the behavior, and with that understanding often comes softness and compassion. So I seek to understand why a person is doing what they are doing; and I may ask them why. I have asked you why more than once in here. Yet, to be honest, none of your responses have been very satisfying. I never learn the why behind your behavior, so I can then know how to pray and help. I'm left being confused. That's never a good sign. But I'll keep tryin' with ya.

I'm also curious about this, and I will humbly admit that because it's been so long ago since I was in college and got my B.A. degree, that things may have very much changed. But back then, when I knew fellow undergraduate students who were hoping to get into law school, there was no "undergraduate law" degree they could pursue. They were left to seek a major that might be compatible with law, like political science, or maybe, history. Once they got a B.A. or B.S. in something else, they then went on to be accepted into a law school and began to pursue a degree in law. Even a friend of mine who wished to work with lawyers and became a paralegal, she got her degree in history.

So what I am trying to understand, because you are way across the country from me, in Ohio, so it may be different, or times have changed, and so now and there for you in Ohio, universities do offer a B.A. degree in law?

To be honest I am just admittedly ignorant on this sort of thing these days for I am very removed, so I am asking for clarity.

My Goodness Gracious, Mr.Michael Jackson does not dictate to anyone;

Knowledge IS Growth...therefore...I am just the messenger..!

Susie pretty much in a nut shell

EXPERIENCE

Secretary/Legal Assistant/Paralegal 2006- Current
Capitol International Productions, Inc./Tevis Entertainment, Inc.

• Process and execute standard and customized legal contracts, addendums, and special provisions for advancement of national and local entertainers in theatres, auditoriums, colleges, and festivals.

•Assist national entertainment agents with venue specifications including but not limited to contractual obligations, promotional material, ticket sales and Certificate’s of Authorities.

•Track, collect, and process deposits; reconcile past dues.

•Utilize multi-phone lines, Microsoft Word, Excel, Windows Explorer, Outlook, Sale Logix, Novegin, Lexis Nexis, Adobe, and the Internet.

Office/Receptionist 2006-2008
Ryan Homes

•Supported ten administrators with general office duties, data entry of properties, building/engineering plans, accounting, promotional materials, employee activities, inventory of office supplies, catering for administrative and employee meetings.

•Utilized MS word and excel to prepare monthly reports for the Vice President, managerial divisions, and office managers.

Manager 1993 – 2005
O’Hara’s Pub & Grille

•Administered daily operations of fast-paced restaurant/catering establishment.

•Maintained high quality customer service; assumed inventory responsibilities including contact, negotiation, and purchase of restaurant/beverage supplies.

•Assisted owner, president, vice president, and the head chef with general, seasonal catering menus.

•Processed payroll for thirty employees; completed accounts payable, accounts receivable entries.

•Created and implemented newspaper, radio, television advertisements; marketed establishment through door-to-door sale calls at local businesses, homes and to the general public.

•Coordinated catering and assisted on and off site customers with reservations, pricing, menu selections, design set-up, and invoicing.

EDUCATION

University of Akron 2005 - Current
Major: Law/Political Science/Public Relations

Cuyahoga Community College 1993
General Education

Medina County Career Center 1980
Business/Management

CERTIFCATIONS

American Red Cross: CPR/AED,ADULT/CHILD PLUS CPR – INFANT 2009-2010

Managing Cosmetologist 1980

AFFILIATIONS

The University of Akron Chapter of 2010
The National Society of Leadership and Success, Sigma Alpha Pi

President, The University of Akron/Legal Studies Association 2006-2008

Award for Excellence, The University of Akron 2006-2007
Paralegal Studies Department

Bring on Brunswick Committee, 2003-2005
Brunswick Area Chamber of Commerce

1987 - Present

Save the Children, World Vision, Voice of Martyrs, Special Olympics, Unicef, Children International, Clinton Foundation,Wheelchair Foundation, Center For Disease Control, US Environmental Protection Agency, US Government, Home Land Security, U.S. State Department,No Limits.org, Library Of Congress/Law Library.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS:

United States Patent – Inventor

The Journal of Relfections of Thought Nothing IS Black or White Part 1© 1995
The Journal of Reflections of Thought Nothing IS Black or White Part 2 @ 2009
Get The Scoop Michael Jackson Board Game

As Always

:angel:

Lisha

01-10-2010, 09:07 PM

University of Akron 2005 - Current
Major: Law/Political Science/Public Relations

Well, only this was needed to answer my question, but the way you went about answering me will lead into what I will post about in a minute.

But now, let me say, hey, I guess then, one can major in law at some schools nowadays. That's new for me. Political Science, of course, makes sense, and I had mentioned it, and Public Relations would also make good sense to major in if going into law. So thank you for the info.

I know of a few in my past who had double majors; one girl chose PoliSci and Art. O.o. She loved them both, so good for her! But it is rare for someone to have a triple major, and this seems to be what you are saying you are doing, yes? That will involve a lot of units and willl mean it will take you longer to get your degree, but it will look good on your application to Law School if you pull it off.

Now what I want to talk with you about.

Susie, you NEVER need to defend your worth or value to anyone! But what I have observed from the things you have posted, (especially the clue given to me in your recent post where you were venting to some unknown person) that you have had a long life of being put down by others. Many tried to make you feel you had little worth and that you would not amount to anything, and that would create a very deep wound. Very deep.

Sometimes when we are walking around with this kind of wound, it causes us to work really hard to make sure others will see us as being a "somebody." By the way here, in this thread, you have repeatedly pointed others to your project on your website; told us often of your efforts to do your part to heal the world; your successes in your pursuit for a vocation that you feel will make you be able to hold your head high among others, which would be a career in Law; and how you have let us know over and over again how busy you are with your worthwhile pursuit for an education, and therefore, have little time for such petty things that others may spend their time with in here; your past association with your nearest and dearest friend, where you word things in such a way to make us all think you are meaning it to be Michael Jackson;...all this...shows me, Susie, how hard you are trying to impress and make sure others know you have worth.

But Susie, you do not have to try this hard...for God is the one who has given you worth, and He will be the one to show those He desires to how truly valuable you are. And it won't have to be because of what you've done or who you know and what others have favorably said about you. Instead, you can be free to quietly pursue the desires of your own heart that God has placed there and while doing so, others will "see" you. God can do this for you; Michael Jackson cannot.

Now it is wonderful if MJ did tell you those motivating words long ago and they found a special place in you heart. We know from his nephew, Taj, how inspiring MJ can be. He wanted others to acheive and live their dreams. But MJ is just a man. He cannot do for you what God can. He cannot help you know, a knowing deep inside, that you have worth. But God can, and if you let Him, He will begin to heal those wounds from your past that you received from others who acted like they were superior to you, and seemed to enjoy making you feel small. Michael Jackson cannot heal those kinds of wounds in you. You have to look to God.

And God is the one who will show others your worth. God's the one who can tap me on the shoulder and say, "Lashi, have you considered my servant, Susie? Do you see the beautiful heart I am forming in her? Do you see her kindness to those who need a kind word? I am pleased with her, just because of who I have made her to be."

If God can get through to me about you, he can show others; and Susie, He will be your advocate, and you will never have to defend yourself to others or blow your own horn ever again. Trust Him. Live your life to please God, not to please or impress Michael Jackson or anybody else. Just quietly live out your life plan and let God be your defense... let Him be the one to lift you up in front of others. :hug:

Sdeidjs

01-10-2010, 09:58 PM

Well, only this was needed to answer my question, but the way you went about answering me will lead into what I will post about in a minute.

But now, let me say, hey, I guess then, one can major in law at some schools nowadays. That's new for me. Political Science, of course, makes sense, and I had mentioned it, and Public Relations would also make good sense to major in if going into law. So thank you for the info.

I know of a few in my past who had double majors; one girl chose PoliSci and Art. O.o. She loved them both, so good for her! But it is rare for someone to have a triple major, and this seems to be what you are saying you are doing, yes? That will involve a lot of units and willl mean it will take you longer to get your degree, but it will look good on your application to Law School if you pull it off.

Now what I want to talk with you about.

Susie, you NEVER need to defend your worth or value to anyone! But what I have observed from the things you have posted, (especially the clue given to me in your recent post where you were venting to some unknown person) that you have had a long life of being put down by others. Many tried to make you feel you had little worth and that you would not amount to anything, and that would create a very deep wound. Very deep.

Sometimes when we are walking around with this kind of wound, it causes us to work really hard to make sure others will see us as being a "somebody." By the way here, in this thread, you have repeatedly pointed others to your project on your website; told us often of your efforts to do your part to heal the world; your successes in your pursuit for a vocation that you feel will make you be able to hold your head high among others, which would be a career in Law; and how you have let us know over and over again how busy you are with your worthwhile pursuit for an education, and therefore, have little time for such petty things that others may spend their time with in here; your past association with your nearest and dearest friend, where you word things in such a way to make us all think you are meaning it to be Michael Jackson;...all this...shows me, Susie, how hard you are trying to impress and make sure others know you have worth.

But Susie, you do not have to try this hard...for God is the one who has given you worth, and He will be the one to show those He desires to how truly valuable you are. And it won't have to be because of what you've done or who you know and what others have favorably said about you. Instead, you can be free to quietly pursue the desires of your own heart that God has placed there and while doing so, others will "see" you. God can do this for you; Michael Jackson cannot.

Now it is wonderful if MJ did tell you those motivating words long ago and they found a special place in you heart. We know from his nephew, Taj, how inspiring MJ can be. He wanted others to acheive and live their dreams. But MJ is just a man. He cannot do for you what God can. He cannot help you know, a knowing deep inside, that you have worth. But God can, and if you let Him, He will begin to heal those wounds from your past that you received from others who acted like they were superior to you, and seemed to enjoy making you feel small. Michael Jackson cannot heal those kinds of wounds in you. You have to look to God.

And God is the one who will show others your worth. God's the one who can tap me on the shoulder and say, "Lashi, have you considered my servant, Susie? Do you see the beautiful heart I am forming in her? Do you see her kindness to those who need a kind word? I am pleased with her, just because of who I have made her to be."

If God can get through to me about you, he can show others; and Susie, He will be your advocate, and you will never have to defend yourself to others or blow your own horn ever again. Trust Him. Live your life to please God, not to please or impress Michael Jackson or anybody else. Just quietly live out your life plan and let God be your defense... let Him be the one to lift you up in front of others. :hug:

Goodness Gracious Lashi, I have absolutely no clue where you get THAT from...I am Susie JUST Being Susie like I have done for the last 48 years...

Seeing, learning, and hearing about many many things that go on throughout the world makes my heart bleed...whether or NOT that Reflection of Thought was about me or not is truly a moot point..!

However, what IS "very important" to understand...No matter how hard one (s) try...NO ONE can "ever" change the past, H.I.S.t.o.r.y...it IS what it is..!

God Bless

As Always

:angel:

Lisha

01-10-2010, 10:16 PM

I got it from observing and listening with my spiritual ears. Although, some of what I observed, I am sure others have observed as well.

Now if I can just remember what I was going to say about "pain" in response to something Favoritetune had posted, but *sigh* it might be too long now and it has completely faded. I'll try a little later and see if it comes back to me. :)

EDIT: One more thing I want to elaborate on, because there is more to my comment: I don't care what Michael Jackson said; he doesn't dictate to me.

And in this context I was meaning just because MJ may be elevated in some people's estimation, not he, or anyone, just by celebrity, or whatever, is automatically going to give their words any weight for me. No matter who the person is, I will weigh what they say.

That is what I was meaning.

Now if I had met MJ and he and I had a conversation does this mean I would automatically reject any of his advice? No. I have spent quite a bit of effort since coming into the MJ world to ascertain if MJ was a man of quality or not...trying the whole time working through a lot of what the media has said about him, and told me what I was supposed to think about him, etc...you all know what I mean. Now I've come to a place where I do highly regard MJ and see him as a man of high quality. But I don't just listen to any body without weighing their words and checking them against what I believe. And I fully think MJ could have handled that about me, and is the type that would have no problem calling me on things that he would see as being "off" about me. And that wouldn't feel nice probably at the time, maybe, but I would respect that. And I wouldn't hesitate on calling him out on things, too.

So I didn't want to leave it like I have no respect for him or would totally disregard everything he says. That is not the case. But just because he's Michael Jackson doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he says nor would he have probably agreed with everything I say or do. Fair enough. :) We'd be even.

Probably a lot of you feel the same way.

EDIT TWO:

Lashi, Your posts are usually like an angel's but it seems your posts to Sdeidjs go a long ways back with frustration and is lacking love. Please be kind. We never know what another person is going through emotionally, physically, spiritually or pretty much anything unless they tell us and they would like still leave more than half of it out.

Your heart comes through your words so well and it seems to have heardened a bit behind her double posting whether intentional or accidental. Don't let it change who you are.

I just saw your response now, I hadn't seen it, and someone mentioned it to me in a PM so I sought it out, hmmm.

Your response is very telling to me. I'm glad for that.

My posts are not like an angel's, for they can't be, I'm an everyday person. And as an everyday person, I will stay consistent...no worry about me changing.

I feel my response posts to Sdeidjs were honest, and with the intent to find out information, to speak truth, and if at all possible, be helpful. She's not at a place to receive. But I had to find out for sure. And my posts were backed with praying.

And since I just got through expressing how I weigh everyone's words, I'm weighing yours now. And if you are a new member, how would you know if I have had a long term frustration with Sdeidjs' posts? Have you been a member here before as someone else? If so, that already puts me on my guard. What are you up to Favoritetune? I'm feeling guile...but for what purpose?

Yes, God's enemy is doing some work in here, but it did not originate with me. Maybe you don't understand what's going on behind the scenes. But I am familiar with the feeling of this type of warfare. Unfortunately, very familiar. I'm gettin' my armor on.

Favoritetune

02-10-2010, 04:47 AM

Lisha

02-10-2010, 05:12 AM

"how would you know if I have had a long term frustration with Sdeidjs' posts?"
Susie, I come in here And see this....

Time and time again I do not understand your behavior.

It is impossible for someone to accidently double post WHEN the content in each post is different from the others.

Ouch!

Ouch? What part is "ouch"?

Time and time again I do not understand her behavior, that is the absolute honest truth. I would not have said that if I didn't think Susie would be able to understand what I meant. It wasn't to be insulting, but to yet again give her the opportunity to explain her behavior in an honest and clear, not in a cryptic, way.

Frustration isn't the word, but an observation and feeling that something is not quite right, which causes the confusion and the several attempts to try to understand and give the benefit of the doubt.

But I will allow what you've quoted to support the possibility of how you concluded this has been going on for awhile...for this confusion with quite a few of Susie's posts has been going on for a long while. True.

But I don't think your perspective is the same as mine on this. I am coming from a different place. We will have to agree to disagree. How does that sound? :)

Favoritetune

02-10-2010, 05:37 AM

Cool.

Hey in the song I can't let her get away at the very end is he saying remember we gotta be at the very, very end or am I hearing things?

Lisha

02-10-2010, 05:52 AM

Cool.

Hey in the song I can't let her get away at the very end is he saying remember we gotta be at the very, very end or am I hearing things?

Well, let me just make my way over to YouTube where I hear everything so very clearly. :smilerolleyes: Are you meaning after the ending three words where he says like a proclamation: GET HER BACK! Doesn't the song end there, though? Or are you saying before that he is saying, "remember we gotta be"?:scratch:

Favoritetune

02-10-2010, 06:01 AM

At the very end of the song it sounds like the last words he's saying really fast.

It's at 4:50 in the song. Not sure if that's all of the links but here is the one I was on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MBhxAO-T1I

Lisha

02-10-2010, 06:06 AM

So where I am hearing "let her go, never let her be, GET HER BACK!" you are hearing somewhere in there "remember we gotta be" which sounds similar to where I hear "never let her be" Is that where? If so, what do you think the phrase "remember we gotta be" means?

Favoritetune

02-10-2010, 06:12 AM

Yes, that's what I am hearing. It could mean that maybe someone told them a prophecy concerning their future or maybe they spoke those words to eachother or both maybe?

Did you see the time code above where I am hearing it? Where are you hearing yours?

8701girl

02-10-2010, 06:18 AM

Lisha

02-10-2010, 06:29 AM

Yes, that's what I am hearing. It could mean that maybe someone told them a prophecy concerning their future or maybe they spoke those words to each other or both maybe?

So the words mean: Remember we gotta be [together]. (or maybe: Remember we gotta be [one])

It does sound like a reminder of a prophetic word that was given to either one of them or both. Very interesting. He doesn't want her to let anything get in the way of that, so he is taking a moment to say "don't forget!!...I know you know this, too!!!"

I get ya, FT.

Did you see the time code above where I am hearing it? Where are you hearing yours? Yes, it is at the same place as the time code you gave, 4:50.

Yeh i saw that title "shoo be doo....."

and i was like wtf...:blink:
Are you Frank Sinatra? :clapping:
:lol:

8701girl

02-10-2010, 06:37 AM

Are you Frank Sinatra? :clapping:
:lol:

Umm noooooo :lol:

I shorten it cuz i couldnt be bothered writing it all! :lol:

Favoritetune

02-10-2010, 06:39 AM

Whatever the prophesy was and or their commitment to eachother maybe?

So you are hearing those words too?

Lisha

02-10-2010, 06:47 AM

Well, not so well, no. But I like the whole idea of it. I could force myself to hear it!

But "never let her be" seems to match more of the state he was in and his other ramblings throughout the adlibbing.

When he asks "Or was it just a lie?" Could that mean, was the prophetic word a lie? If so, then yeah, "remember we gotta be" could fit. So by the end of his ramblings, he is back not thinking it was just a lie, or he wouldn't have reminded her of it. Again, interesting.

Favoritetune

02-10-2010, 06:53 AM

Sdeidjs

02-10-2010, 03:43 PM

Things that make us all go Mmm~~~

http://img.cache.vevo.com/Content/VevoImages/video/844A7F545BDFA005A194867B2EB03334.jpg?width=256&height=144&crop=auto

Ghost by Michael Jackson
http://www.vevo.com/video/USSM20401953
Watch the music video for Ghost by Michael Jackson and more new Pop videos on VEVO. (http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fv.vevo.com%2FdWd&t=Ghost+-+Michael+Jackson+%7C+Music+Video+%7C+VEVO#)

God Bless

As Always

:angel:

Lisha

02-10-2010, 08:08 PM

He does say never but I don't hear let her be at the very end. I hear him say never gonna a lot near the end. In that last rambling he says something about the public and television it seems but tele is heard and the rest seems slurred. The words are really complex.

I don't hear never let her be right there. I hear remember we (a pause) gotta be (song ends).

I'm about to fasten my eyes on a DVD gnight ladies!

gnight ladies

So that's why I kept feeling reminded of Itsjustmenothim for awhile now. Why the pretense?

Also, I was earlier today reminded of the question MP brought up (and you, FT) on what is keeping/kept MJ and his LITD girl apart. Then I came across a scripture in 1Thessalonians, where Paul is explaining the why behind his not being able to visit the church he has parented and loves.

But, brothers, when we were torn away from you for a short time (in person, not in thought), out of our intense longing we made every effort to see you. For we wanted to come to you -- certainly I, Paul, did, again and again -- but Satan stopped us.

That got me thinking and decided to change the words a bit to suit MJ and his LITD girl:

But, dear, when I was torn away from you for a long time (in person, not in thought), out of my intense longing I made every effort to see you. For I wanted to come to you -- certainly I did, again and again -- but Satan stopped me.

The above scripture shows how God's enemy can stop such a thing over and over again from happening, because of the enemy knowing how God's hand is on the people involved and if together they would experience a strenthening. No way does God's enemy want THAT!

EDIT: About what you say here, FT...

In that last rambling he says something about the public and television it seems but tele is heard
So are you thinking maybe he said something in these fast lyrics to get across to her that "never" is our relationship going to be in the "public" eye or in the media (television/tele representing media)? Is that what you are thinking? (are you British with that use of "tele." :) )

Favoritetune

03-10-2010, 01:39 AM

Hi Lashi Holmes,

I honestly can't make out all the words there so I don't know what he is saying. It must be pretty intense because it sounds like he has deliberately hidden words in the end of the song, because of that I just listened to that rap like 50 x's and is this is what I got from it. I only wrote what I thought I was hearing so there's gonna be a bunch of things I missed so and nothing is there to inicate the missing spots but it may work for you.

MJ Rap

I got the feelin trouble gonna stop,
I got the feelin she neva gonna drop
I got the feelin she never gonna step
I got the feelin but she never gonna know

I got the feelin that she’s on the high tip
I got the feelin that she never gonna take a break
I got the feelin her head is al f’d up
I got the feelin that she forgot about us

Can’t let go o o o o o o o

I gotta see her

I got the feelin that she never gonna get away

I have a feelin that she never gonna get awy

I can’t let, I can’t let her get away

No no

She wont, she wont, she, she wont do it

I wont let it

Hel no, no, no, no, no

Get away

She wont, she wont, she wont

Hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo

Be together
She wont
With her

Oh no, she wont

O why, o no, she wont ,she wont, she wont, she wont ,she wont, she wont
Never gonna
Live with me

Never drink on the the public on the tele v
Never gonna nothing gonna stop
I never gonna

She gonna stop
I never gonna
Remember me
I never gonna
That she gonna live
I never gonna
Remember we
Gotta be

Lisha

03-10-2010, 02:38 AM

^ You handled that nicely, I must confess. Nothing like landing on your feet. lol.

Okay, well, FT, you've got me dizzy 'cause I'm in danger of getting mixed up on which thread I'm in. We've been discussing now this song in both your thread and here in the LITD thread. But, yeah, discussing lyrics in this way works for both...true, true!

I see you are hearing a couple swear words. I had a convo before with another who swore(haha) that they heard curse words, also, but no way could I pick them up. But if both of you can...hmmm.

I think your deciphering of the lyrics here is good. I like it. So do you know street talk and urban lingo and all that...'cause what does

she’s on the high tip mean?

Is it as unflattering to her as

her head is al f’d up

(Nice lyrics, MJ. What a nice guy)

And this, Never drink on the the public on the tele v

So in the middle of going on and on about this chick, he stops for a moment to make it known that no one will ever see him drink on public television?

Well, yeah, we all need to hear that in the middle of all this! We were all so very concerned for months, maybe years over this issue ...thanks MJ for finding a spot in a song of yours to fill us in and bring us peace of mind. lol.

Bottom line though, I enjoyed reading your lyric ideas. And you were the one that brought in some really good insight regarding the YANA video, way back when in this thread, and how it is fervent green when he brings up the LITD girl in the song, and dry desert when we are seeing LMP. That was brilliant. :)

Favoritetune

03-10-2010, 04:02 AM

Hi,

Sorry about same song in both threads. I'm not sure what high tip means. I just listened to it repetively and at first I thought he was saying on the highest step but eventually the timing was right for that and when all was said and done it sounds like high tip. I just googled it and there are some things that are called high tip trailers and other items. Seems like they are lifted up and tip over at a higher height or something but I had never heard of the term until the song and looking it up tonight on the internet.

I haven't paid attention to any of the words I wrote other than that being what they sounded like.

BTW you're too smart for your own good.

Okay I was just looking at the words I got and it could be because of the DVD I saw last night which was called Knowing but as I was looking at what I wrote it seemed like there was a message in the wording so try bolding everything after he says "never gonna" and see what you get:=.

Lisha

03-10-2010, 04:44 AM

I'm not all that bright, really, but sometimes the Lord helps me, and I appreciate it when He does. :wub:

Soooo...

drop, step, know, take a break, get away, get away, live with me, nothing gonna stop, she gonna stop, remember me, that she gonna live, remember we gotta be.

Like that?

Now if I unbold certain letters from the list above, just sooo, finding the correct pattern...will it spell out something of enlightenment? Or is it ALL just right there as is?

EDIT: is that the Nicholas Cage flick, you're talking about? (good ol' IMDb). I haven't seen it. Are there puzzles for the characters to figure out in the story line?

EDIT 2: nevermind, I saw this under the trivia for the movie: The perceptual phenomenon of people looking for patterns in randomness (number strings, faces in trees, shapes in clouds etc.) is called Apophenia.

Favoritetune

03-10-2010, 04:47 AM

Try this- everything after never gonna:

O why, o no, she wont ,she wont, she wont, she wont ,she wont, she wont
Never gonna
Live with me

Never drink on the the public on the tele v
Never gonna nothing gonna stop
I never gonna

She gonna stop
I never gonna
Remember me
I never gonna
That she gonna live
I never gonna
Remember we
Gotta be

Also discard the random part about never drink

I'm still going here so be patient

If you remove words where he says got the feeling then this is what he is saying

trouble gonna stop,
she neva gonna drop
she never gonna step
but she never gonna know

that she’s on the high tip
that she never gonna take a break
her head is al f’d up
that she forgot about us

Now that's pretty darn deep

Lisha

03-10-2010, 05:12 AM

Did you catch my previous post? Was everything I said in it a wash?

Okay, well, so

she never gonna know that she’s on the high tip (well, I can believe her not knowing that, for if she is like me, she doesn't even know what it means!)

and, she never gonna know that she never gonna take a break (is she at her workplace...does she belong to a union? I hope so)

and, she never gonna know that her head is al f’d up (maybe that's best, but I have a feeling he really wanted to let her know)

and, she never gonna know that she forgot about us (how did that ever slip her mind?)

That's all I got for you... maybe you can help.

Favoritetune

03-10-2010, 05:44 AM

Wow!

I can't believe I waited anxiously for that:)

Okay, here's what I get

Each of these starts with got the feelin

trouble gonna stop,
she neva gonna drop
she never gonna step

Above it looks like he's optimistic here that she wont leave
then he says:

but she never gonna know

and follows with I got the feelin:

that she’s on the high tip (somthing staitioned high and can tip?)
that she never gonna take a break (things are gonna be difficult maybe?)
her head is all f’d up (Why would he say that?)
that she forgot about us (Maybe that's why?)

If you bold the words with editing at the random never gonna and gonna you get:

Live with me

Never drink on the the public on the tele v
stop

stop

Remember me

live

Remember we
Gotta be

and that is my conclusion for the night ladies.

I'd love to hear your interpretations but mind you I did just watch a dvd about a psychic, a mathematician, prevailing doom, and children's heaven all rolled into one thanks to my cous. so my brain is prob. not functioning in it's usual capacity or maybe this was the perfect time for me to spend some time trying to figure it out and that way was meant to be. I'll wait to see what you make of it.

and sadly Lashi, yes I think it was all a wash:D but I did read it!

MysteriousPhoenix

03-10-2010, 03:37 PM

... Also, I was earlier today reminded of the question MP brought up (and you, FT) on what is keeping/kept MJ and his LITD girl apart. Then I came across a scripture in 1Thessalonians, where Paul is explaining the why behind his not being able to visit the church he has parented and loves.

That got me thinking and decided to change the words a bit to suit MJ and his LITD girl:

But, dear, when I was torn away from you for a long time (in person, not in thought), out of my intense longing I made every effort to see you. For I wanted to come to you -- certainly I did, again and again -- but Satan stopped me.

The above scripture shows how God's enemy can stop such a thing over and over again from happening, because of the enemy knowing how God's hand is on the people involved and if together they would experience a strenthening. No way does God's enemy want THAT!

I think that's it in a nutshell.

Ape

03-10-2010, 10:51 PM

Oh boy, I am way back on page 500 or so in a 700 (almost) page thread and no time to read it. oh woah is me :P. Anyways, I like the last bit of what I read on the last page. I wonder if I will ever get to the nuggets of gold in the pages I've missed or not. (or are there any? well Im sure with all you guys there would be some at least). I hope everyone is doing well. Just wanted to say hello mostly.

(oh and I went to my movie premiere. It went well. It's not out, just had one showing here and it's going to be in some festivals. Other than that not sure). I look awful in it, but that's the role. I liked watching it this time around. The first time I was disappointed but with a full audience it was nice. I enjoyed it more. If anyone was wondering about it.. thought I'd fill you in. I now have a poster with my name on it, which is kind of cool, and a DVD of it.)

Favoritetune

03-10-2010, 11:53 PM

Hey Ape Congratulations on your movie debut!

Lashi, this isn't the post you were asking if I caught was it?

That got me thinking and decided to change the words a bit to suit MJ and his LITD girl:

But, dear, when I was torn away from you for a long time (in person, not in thought), out of my intense longing I made every effort to see you. For I wanted to come to you -- certainly I did, again and again -- but Satan stopped me.

The above scripture shows how God's enemy can stop such a thing over and over again from happening, because of the enemy knowing how God's hand is on the people involved and if together they would experience a strenthening. No way does God's enemy want THAT!

If that's the one you meant sorry, I thought you meant this post.

drop, step, know, take a break, get away, get away, live with me, nothing gonna stop, she gonna stop, remember me, that she gonna live, remember we gotta be.

About the one with the scripture, I saw it and thought it was pretty amazing that you found something that you used to relates so well. So amazed that I didn't have a way to comment on it at the time. I still don't entirely but now that you've answered my/our question (mine and Mysterious Phoenix') then I inquire what then would be the solution to this?

I'll check back later for any answers and I'll go read 1 Thess.

Lisha

04-10-2010, 12:17 AM

Apers! It's so good to see you! I am proud of you for so many things, and that movie is one of them :)

MP, when I saw your post this morning, it put a big smile on my face. I wasn't sure if you had completely gone yet or not, and just seeing that MysteriousPhoenix had posted in the LITD thread, made me feel joy inside. :D Hope you're doing well. :pray:

wendijane, that was sweet of you to thank Ape for her post. Aww. :hug:

Lainy

04-10-2010, 01:04 AM

Hi ladies!
I just stop here to wish a great week for everyone. I hope you're doing well.
I was somewhat saddened by what I've read in some previous posts ... but... well... God will act.
Ape, I'm glad for your movie debut. Congratulations. :)
God bless all

EDIT:
Wow! If others had difficulty taking The Love in The Dark thread seriously before, how much more of a problem will they have with it... now that the thread is in a forum called, Shoo-be-doo-be-doo-da-day!

I ask you that!!! :lol:

I got a fright with this change name. :lol:

Lisha

04-10-2010, 01:52 AM

I was somewhat saddened by what I've read in some previous posts ... but... well... God will act.
Many feel very saddened or uncomfortable when any confrontation is going on around them. I know and understand this. There is a catch phrase going around all over the net that goes like this, "Save your drama for your momma." People love saying it. And there is a lot of unnecessary drama that takes place. But a confrontation, using reasonable, pointed, fair wording is different (a calm, even, communication with the intent to help one possibly re-evaluate their behavior, and doing this while not using name-calling or a condescending tone, or other nasty, vehemous kind of talk, like I've seen take place in threads even on this site.). It is definitely different from that. But a lot of people have not had this calm, even communication (not done in anger) modeled to them, but only know the unhealthy, unreasonable, unfair, angry and belittling kind. And when reading text only, they assume the words must come with that, because it is what they are used to, but actually, if they could see the individual's face, they might see a face that is calm, and nothing like that at all. I hope always to be fair and reasonable in all of my communication, and I do pray for that. :)

I got a fright with this change name. :lol:

I know! Someone had way too much fun making that name up. :lol:

FT, do you have a time code to go with where you are hearing this?

her head is al f’d up
It is hard for me to picture the sweet, innocent Michael that I've created in my own head saying a lyric like that regarding his LITD girl, especially when he was quite confident that one day "she gon, she gon, she gonna hear it!" So I'd like to have another listen 'cause I can't (or don't want to) believe it!!! lol.

8701girl

04-10-2010, 01:56 AM

(oh and I went to my movie premiere. It went well. It's not out, just had one showing here and it's going to be in some festivals. Other than that not sure). I look awful in it, but that's the role. I liked watching it this time around. The first time I was disappointed but with a full audience it was nice. I enjoyed it more. If anyone was wondering about it.. thought I'd fill you in. I now have a poster with my name on it, which is kind of cool, and a DVD of it.)

Congrats on the movie role! :clapping::clapping:

Im sure the movie will do great :D

What is the movie called?

Asedora

04-10-2010, 02:18 AM

I do not know what kind of confrontation you guys were talking about. Hopefully it was not about me. :)
I am not sure that I can paricipate this conversation any longer cos I am busy with my own "stuff" but I will be here sometimes. Maybe finally the question about LITD will be more clear in the next 10 years ;)
Take care everybody :huggy:

8701girl

04-10-2010, 02:21 AM

I got a fright with this change name. :lol:

So did i! :lol:

Favoritetune

04-10-2010, 03:04 AM

Lainy, Thanks for the well wishes!

Lashi, the time code is 3:19 and 20. I am not certain but that is what it sounds like. I think that could be why I stopped listening to the song long ago but I don't remember. Let me know what you hear.

Asedora, Ten years?!?

8701girl:)

Lisha

04-10-2010, 03:40 AM

^ ya know, I find when listening to his hard to hear lyrics that the power of suggestion can be very strong, but I do think I can hear that now. O.o

Well, gee, this then would go over just fine with his LITD girl, huh?... that he is the type who would talk like this with her? Very disrespectful. If a guy said that to me, I'd be gone.

But he seems to have relationships with girls who swear, so maybe it's his "type," and therefore she (LITD girl, if she exists) would be cool with it. I don't think LMP would bat an eye if he said that word around her. Many females wouldn't. I'd have a problem with it.

~ How do the rest of you women who read this thread feel about this? Would you be comfortable in a relationship with a man who swears and uses the f-word around you? Would you feel he still was being respectful to you? What if you observed that he didn't talk that way in front of his mom (can any of you, for example, picture MJ talking like that in front of Katherine?) but he does around you. How would that make you feel? Respected?

Now I know there are guys who swear all the time and are in circles where that is just how they talk, and if I was in the company of that sort of male, then I would understand that it might be too much of a battle to fight to get him to understand it was making me feel disrespected...so I would weigh it, and perhaps let it go. But the man who has given me every indication that he cares about me and wants to be in a relationship with me, yet talks that way with me? No.

Another thing to think about it, if MJ was saying that word because he was upset, frustrated, and angry at the LITD girl for "leaving" or making him feel she didn't want him...whatever, some misunderstanding that had not been talked through yet...well, what would make her think that if she was in a relationship with him and he got angry, hurt, frustrated, he wouldn't lose control and start swearing at her? Couldn't this be a heads up that he might do that? How demeaning to be treated like that by a man you care about. Wouldn't you expect him, if he loves you and cares, to remain respectful even if he is upset, and to communicate what he is feeling to you in rational words in a reasonable way? Wouldnt he want that in return? I would no way if I was angry at someone I valued yell at them or call them names or start cussing just because they upset me (I'm not saying I wouldn't show any signs of being upset...). So, then, I would no way receive or accept that from the man.

Would you girls? Or you guys...would you want your sisters to be talked at like that?

Favoritetune

04-10-2010, 05:53 AM

This song was about a girl not sung to a girl so it's not really talking to her. You called it rambling so maybe maybe he was just going through the motions. Hey, maybe he was drinking and that's where the other line came from:)

All silliness aside to be honest as to your question nobody is perfect and people make mistakes. The duty in love is to learn and grow.

8701girl

04-10-2010, 11:55 AM

[QUOTE=Lashi;3006523Well, gee, this then would go over just fine with his LITD girl, huh?... that he is the type who would talk like this with her? Very disrespectful. If a guy said that to me, I'd be gone.

But he seems to have relationships with girls who swear, so maybe it's his "type," and therefore she (LITD girl, if she exists) would be cool with it. I don't think LMP would bat an eye if he said that word around her. Many females wouldn't. I'd have a problem with it.

~ How do the rest of you women who read this thread feel about this? Would you be comfortable in a relationship with a man who swears and uses the f-word around you? Would you feel he still was being respectful to you? What if you observed that he didn't talk that way in front of his mom (can any of you, for example, picture MJ talking like that in front of Katherine?) but he does around you. How would that make you feel? Respected?

Now I know there are guys who swear all the time and are in circles where that is just how they talk, and if I was in the company of that sort of male, then I would understand that it might be too much of a battle to fight to get him to understand it was making me feel disrespected...so I would weigh it, and perhaps let it go. But the man who has given me every indication that he cares about me and wants to be in a relationship with me, yet talks that way with me? No.

Another thing to think about it, if MJ was saying that word because he was upset, frustrated, and angry at the LITD girl for "leaving" or making him feel she didn't want him...whatever, some misunderstanding that had not been talked through yet...well, what would make her think that if she was in a relationship with him and he got angry, hurt, frustrated, he wouldn't lose control and start swearing at her? Couldn't this be a heads up that he might do that? How demeaning to be treated like that by a man you care about. Wouldn't you expect him, if he loves you and cares, to remain respectful even if he is upset, and to communicate what he is feeling to you in rational words in a reasonable way? Wouldnt he want that in return? I would no way if I was angry at someone I valued yell at them or call them names or start cussing just because they upset me (I'm not saying I wouldn't show any signs of being upset...). So, then, I would no way receive or accept that from the man.

Would you girls? Or you guys...would you want your sisters to be talked at like that?[/QUOTE]

All the men in my life pretty much swear ...and i have to admit so do i! *blush*

And i do get call names by my stepdad sometimes but i just ignore it really, theres no point getting upset bout that cuz it just shows how childish he is at times.

But if i had a boyfriend/husband and said those names to me id tell them how i feel bout it, make him apologise but if he didnt id leave.

Lisha

04-10-2010, 04:47 PM

This song was about a girl not sung to a girl so it's not really talking to her. It seems to me based on the several times he uses the word "you" that he is meaning to say these things to a girl.

I try so hard to love you
Some things take time and shame
I think the whole world of you
Your thoughts of me remain
I'll play the fool for you
Just say it and I'll do
Just make this thing come true
(Make this dream come true)

I tried to mastermind it
By saying let it be
But everytime I did it
The hurt came back at me
I told you that I need you
A thousand times and why
I played the fool for you
And still you said goodbye
(Still you said goodbye)

Also that line that I hear, and I know of at least one other person who has heard this in the fast adlib part, "she gon, she gon, she gonna hear it." makes me think that this song could be both about a particular girl, for some lyrics do talk about her and not to her, and a commuication to a (the same) particular girl. And it seems he was banking on her one day hearing what all he had to say to her at the time, in order for her to understand the level of pain and aggravation he was going through...all DUE TO HER! Yikes!

That's what I get from it. And so, that would mean, he wanted her to hear, "her head is al f’d up."

All the men in my life pretty much swear ...and i have to admit so do i! *blush*
See, that's the thing. For some, both male and females, because of who they hang around with, swearing can be as natural as breathing. No one in their group is thinking a thing about it. It's not a big deal to them. I understand that. For me, I haven't been around others who swear for years, not socially, nor in my own family. I don't hear it on a daily basis. But if I did, knowing how impressionable I am on what I hear, like how I start talking in an accent when I am around somneone speaking with one pretty fast, that I am sure I'd start picking up on swear words... unless I really in my mind, would fight it. That's hard to do when you are hearing something non-stop.

But I have brought up the importance of compatibility. Now somewhere along the line MJ changed. When he was a young man he did not swear. What happened? Did he start getting around a lot of people who did, and felt less accepted because he didn't swear... so he began to allow himself to say a few swear words here and there? Did he not during that 2007 Ebony interview say pretty much that very thing?

But fairly early on he was in friendships with others who did swear (and being in that business, too). He began his friendship, I think, with Debbie Rowe in the early to mid-eighties and she can swear like a truck driver if provoked (and that is probably because she has always been around it. I understand. I like Debbie, she's very real). And when MJ started hanging around LMP, finally meeting her after so long of waiting for the opportunity, he definitley swore around her (and apparently told crass jokes and drank). In fact, she commented that he started swearing to her right there at the first meeting with her, I guess to disspell to her the "myth?" that he was a goody-goody....or as she put it, to assure her he was very "normal." Hmm.

So what happened to the young man who had made a choice early on not to swear. Well, he changed.

So since compatibility is important, I would think then if he was attracted to the LITD girl, she must swear. And since we have discussed that, at some points in their long history, that he "watched" her and observed her, then he might have known before he wrote CLHGA, that she was a girl not unused to hearing swear words. Didn't we at times think she might be a girl from the hood? Doesn't urban talk include a lot of swearing? So the LITD girl herself might say a few choice swear words when she is upset, just like, apparently, MJ was perfectly capable of doin'. (The bodyguards who are promoting their book certainly want to give the impression that MJ had a way to make it known when he was displeased.....hmmm...did that include swearing at the top of his lungs? :o A lot of people do respond in that way)

So the compatibility between the LITD girl and MJ could very well be there in this area. And for her, then, him saying "her head is al f’d up" well, it would not phase her at all and she'd simply think, "Woah, I got him mad!" and maybe even chuckle at the thought of it. Could be. We all come from different places and have different perspectives.

And i do get call names by my stepdad sometimes but i just ignore it really, theres no point getting upset bout that cuz it just shows how childish he is at times. I'm sorry to hear that; and even if you have learned to mostly ignore it, it still can't be very fun for you when it is going on. :hug:

But if i had a boyfriend/husband and said those names to me id tell them how i feel bout it, make him apologise but if he didnt id leave.
Sounds like you'd place a boundary there with the guy. Good for you.

All silliness aside to be honest as to your question nobody is perfect and people make mistakes. The duty in love is to learn and grow.
Yes, and this all occured in the song CLHGA twenty years ago. I'm sure MJ in all that time could very well have learned and did grow. :)

Favoritetune

04-10-2010, 06:20 PM

Lashi, I meant that part of the song where he is rapping wasn't sung to her. Because he says I got the feeling she's...

I don't think a lady has to swear to be compatable with a guy who does and some ladies like 8701girl have heard so much cursing that they just don't want to hear anymore but unless someone is intentionally trying to hurt you that's no reason to abandon a relationship.

Like you said a lot of men and women swear. Some women like to argue, curse be cursed at and even hit. When that happens there is something deeply wrong. Some men comply and or deal with. Some women tolerate these things and some would never tolerate it.

When a person curses it's often just considered a bad word but when someone curses at someone and they are calling someone names to hurt them it is another form of abuse.

In the song the words aren't directed at the woman he is singing of but rather they seem to be about her if in fact that is what he's saying. For all we know he went into the studio drunk and recorded that part of the song or maybe they got him drunk while they were recording. Maybe it was a response of the pain he was feeling. Maybe it is in relation to the Who Is It song and he was just extremely ticked off of the thought of her seeing another guy? A lot of times when people are hurt they curse.

The line after it sounds like he says I got a feeling her head is all f'd up the next verse sounds like I got a feeling she forgot about us.

He goes back and forth from talking about "her" to talking to "her" through the whole song. When I pay attention to his voice it does sound like a cross between hurt and anger, is thought how he sounds to you?

I think I just heard a part right before the rap where he says "No you aint!" :) The time code is 2:53.

Hey 8701girl, Sorry to read that about your step dad. Keep your head up and don't let it break your spirit!

Ape

04-10-2010, 06:25 PM

Oh no, everyone has changed their names? Now I'll never keep up ;)

I love the bible passage you wrote and adapted to this (it is so hard to call you by your new name...but for you, I will do it) Lashi. Sometimes the thing that makes difficult things in life easier, for me, is to think that it could be Satan placing these things in my path. So I get pretty stubborn and just keep on going without giving up. I think that is the key, to not give up and to trust in God. Not sure how that can apply to this but I always try to relate things to myself to understand.

I don't think I agree with the girl necessarily being someone who swears or would need to swear. I don't think swearing should have to have much bearing in a relationship. I have a friend who has the mouth of a trucker and I love her just the same, it's just how she is and I accept her. She won't swear around children just as she won't smoke around them and I do appreciate that. Respect, however, should have lots of bearing in a relationship and so in your case, since you really are uncomfortable around cuss words, someone who loves you would try their best to watch their tongue in your presence just because they care about you; but you would probably do well to be forgiving of them and accepting of them if they occassionally express themselves in that manner. Though maybe because you are so uncomfortable with it, you wouldn't end up with someone who's vocabulary regularly included such words.

I think you have to look at the whole person, not just pieces of them. There are parts of any person who we would reject if they were the entire person. Part of loving someone is accepting those parts we would reject (I think). Hmmm, though having said that, there are certain things that for myself, I couldn't accept. My experience has taught me otherwise. For instance, I couldn't date a drug addict. I could date a recovered drug addict, but not one who is currently continuing doing drugs. I don't need that in my life and nor do my children. I have, in the past, tried to be there for someone who was a drug addict and I couldn't help them. All it did was tear my own family apart. You can still love them, but sometimes when someone continually choses a path that goes away from you, what can you do? You be there for them if they come back to you. But then if one of my children were doing drugs, I would want to take them far away from that life until they were themselves again and out from under the influence of drugs and try to keep them from returning to it. Oh what a topic I've brought up... sorry. There are just some things in life that are horrific to have to deal with. I know this probably is a touchy subject as well because of Michael. People think that those close to him should have intervened. They probably did. I have no idea what happened but in my experience, you can't force someone to change or quit drugs, just as you can't force someone to go on a diet and lose weight. It has to come from inside, but it DOES help to have support. It really Doesn't help to have enablers.

Now I'm not sure I really want to post this. ..but not sure how to edit it either and I don't have much time. Guess I'll post and run!

Ape

04-10-2010, 06:30 PM

FavoriteTune, you said so well what I was trying to say. :) I guess my post isn't really needed.

edit:oh shoot, sorry. All this time away from online and I forget how to post. I should have edited instead of double posting. Sorry Lorraine or any other moderators.

Favoritetune

04-10-2010, 06:41 PM

Hahahaha Ape their gonna get you girl:)

and thanks!

Lisha

04-10-2010, 06:58 PM

Ape, your post was great! Really. So many very true things you put in there.

And, yes, we go back a long time now :) and I suppose I'll always be Queen to you. Think of Lashi as my cute side. Haha. (then what side was the queen g part...hmm...I'm afraid for an answer). :D

So good to see you posting here. You always add so much. :clapping:

EDIT: FT, you sure are having MJ be some sort of a lush! But then again, I thought maybe the LITD girl was a lush once in here, so seeeeeeeee, more evidence of their compatibility! (in fact, I think that mannequin is still possibly residing at the bar in the Hayvenhurst home. There ya go, taking you all down memory lane in here with past posts. :) )

Favoritetune

04-10-2010, 07:19 PM

Lashi, What manequin are you talking about?

I'm not making him a lush, I'm just rambling out possibilities.

Lisha

04-10-2010, 08:40 PM

Lashi, What manequin are you talking about?

I'm not able to find the photos that would make it easier to explain, but after June 25, 2009 there was a picture going around of the kids, some of the cousins, playing together at Hayvenhurst, in a room with a bar... and this mannequin was seen propped there, at the bar.

A while before that, I had posted photos of that very mannequin. MJ had asked Christian Audigier permission to take it from one of the Ed Hardy stores, and it was placed in the front seat of MJ's SUV to be taken home with him. The media photographers snapped away and shot video of it and even asked it some questions. When I posted those pictures, summer said she heard that the mannequin ended up being placed at the bar (apparently summer was right!). And so I said it was a message to us in here from MJ that his LITD girl is a lush! (we had been talking at the time of MJ getting messages across to us in different ways and that they were NOT just coincidences!! :D )

So there ya go. The mannequin/lush story. :lol: Memory lane.

but unless someone is intentionally trying to hurt you that's no reason to abandon a relationship.
What I was meaning... is if the guy you are in a relationship with knows how you feel about hearing swear words (especially the f-word) and yet he still says it around you, then I think that is in a way intentionally hurting you, and not respecting your wishes or a boundary you have set up.

So then I think it would be a very good idea to re-evaluate the relationship and possibly abandon it. And wouldn't the girl in this situation, if she was starting to walk in a room, and then overheard her guy tell someone else about her, "her head is all f'd up" wouldn't she be very hurt? In that case, he didn't mean for her to overhear, and probably wouldn't have said it if he knew she was in earshot. But in this song, I think he did mean for the LITD girl (if she exists) to one day hear. But it was very long ago, and I do think his voice sounds hurt and angry, and it is coming from that. And heavy drink. lol.

Asedora

04-10-2010, 08:42 PM

^ I think your deciphering of the lyrics here is good. I like it. So do you know street talk and urban lingo and all that...'cause what does

she’s on the high tip mean?

Is it as unflattering to her as

her head is al f’d up

(Nice lyrics, MJ. What a nice guy)

And this, Never drink on the the public on the tele v

:)

I am almost left but I came back :lol: What kind of song you were discussing here guys? If it is Can't let her get away lyrics I cannot reacall this part: she’s on the high tip , her head is al f’d up :mello: where did you get it from?

Lisha

04-10-2010, 09:16 PM

I am almost left but I cam back :lol: What kind of song you were discussing here guys? If it is Can't let her get away lyrics I cannot reacall this part: she’s on the high tip , her head is al f’d up :mello: where did you get it from?

Here's the post where FT posted his take on what MJ is saying during the fast adlib/rap part of the song, Can't Let Her Get Away:

I honestly can't make out all the words there so I don't know what he is saying. It must be pretty intense because it sounds like he has deliberately hidden words in the end of the song, because of that I just listened to that rap like 50 x's and is this is what I got from it. I only wrote what I thought I was hearing so there's gonna be a bunch of things I missed so and nothing is there to inicate the missing spots but it may work for you.

MJ Rap

I got the feelin trouble gonna stop,
I got the feelin she neva gonna drop
I got the feelin she never gonna step
I got the feelin but she never gonna know

I got the feelin that she’s on the high tip
I got the feelin that she never gonna take a break
I got the feelin her head is al f’d up
I got the feelin that she forgot about us

Can’t let go o o o o o o o

I gotta see her

I got the feelin that she never gonna get away

I have a feelin that she never gonna get awy

I can’t let, I can’t let her get away

No no

She wont, she wont, she, she wont do it

I wont let it

Hel no, no, no, no, no

Get away

She wont, she wont, she wont

Hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo

Be together
She wont
With her

Oh no, she wont

O why, o no, she wont ,she wont, she wont, she wont ,she wont, she wont
Never gonna
Live with me

Never drink on the the public on the tele v
Never gonna nothing gonna stop
I never gonna

She gonna stop
I never gonna
Remember me
I never gonna
That she gonna live
I never gonna
Remember we
Gotta be

Asedora

04-10-2010, 10:26 PM

Here's the post where FT posted his take on what MJ is saying during the fast adlib/rap part of the song, Can't Let Her Get Away:

Oh thank you. i have never paid attention to this part. I can hear this part:

I got the feelin trouble gonna stop,
I got the feelin she neva gonna drop
I got the feelin she never gonna step
I got the feelin but she never gonna know

I got the feelin that she’s on the high tip
I got the feelin that she never gonna take a break
I got the feelin her head is al f’d up

But I do not hear this: I got the feelin that she forgot about us

I am not sure about the rest either.

Lisha

04-10-2010, 11:17 PM

You're welcome. :)

Oh thank you. i have never paid attention to this part. I can hear this part:

I got the feelin trouble gonna stop,
I got the feelin she neva gonna drop
I got the feelin she never gonna step
I got the feelin but she never gonna know

I got the feelin that she’s on the high tip
I got the feelin that she never gonna take a break
I got the feelin her head is al f’d up

But I do not hear this: I got the feelin that she forgot about us

I am not sure about the rest either.

So you definitely hear "I got the feelin' her head is all f'd up" also? Wow.

That last line (which you left out) I have always heard as:

"I got the feelin' that she neva gonna listen to it"

But later he says, "she gon, she gon, she gonna hear it." So I think he REALLY wanted her to listen to this song when it came out and to "hear" it, or all that he had to say to her through it. That's my feeling at this point.

So I don't hear "...she forgot about us" as that line either, just like you don't hear it.

Lorraine

04-10-2010, 11:22 PM

You're welcome. :)

So you definitely hear "I got the feelin' her head is all f'd up" also? Wow.

That last line I have always heard as

"I got the feelin' that she neva gonna listen to it"

But later he says, "she gon, she gon, she gonna hear it." So I think he REALLY wanted her to listen to this song when it came out and to "hear" it, or all that he had to say to her through it. That's my feeling at this point.

So I don't hear "...she forgot about us" as that line either, just like you don't hear it.

I hear "I got the feelin' her head is all f'd up" Very clearly..
I do not hear that last line at all.. can't make it out myself but I don't hear " She forgot about us "

Asedora

04-10-2010, 11:38 PM

You're welcome. :)

So you definitely hear "I got the feelin' her head is all f'd up" also? Wow.

It is very clear imo :yes: Mike was using a bad language :lol:

I got the feelin' that she neva gonna listen to it actually make sense but I am not sure about that line.
Do you thik that this song was addressed to LITD girl? I think it could.

8701girl

04-10-2010, 11:42 PM

See, that's the thing. For some, both male and females, because of who they hang around with, swearing can be as natural as breathing. No one in their group is thinking a thing about it. It's not a big deal to them. I understand that. For me, I haven't been around others who swear for years, not socially, nor in my own family. I don't hear it on a daily basis. But if I did, knowing how impressionable I am on what I hear, like how I start talking in an accent when I am around somneone speaking with one pretty fast, that I am sure I'd start picking up on swear words... unless I really in my mind, would fight it. That's hard to do when you are hearing something non-stop.

When i was younger i didnt swear as much but as u grow older and become more aware of the world, your personality changes & you mature.
I went to a catholic school when i was in primary and was taught that swearing was bad, but its hard not to when it seems to be everywhere.
But i found it quite sexy hearing mj do it....hey what can i say it was HOT!!!
:inlove:

I'm sorry to hear that; and even if you have learned to mostly ignore it, it still can't be very fun for you when it is going on. :hug:
Sounds like you'd place a boundary there with the guy. Good for yoiu

:hug:

Its not fun but im alot stronger then i was a few yrs bck, so i dont bother about it much

Sdeidjs

05-10-2010, 12:38 PM

"If you enter this world knowing you are loved and you leave this world knowing the same then everything that happens in between can be dealt with..!"

Michael Jackson

God Bless

:angel:

Favoritetune

05-10-2010, 07:14 PM

Do you know where to find the manequin photos or do you have a link?

Lisha

05-10-2010, 07:51 PM

I hear "I got the feelin' her head is all f'd up" Very clearly..
I do not hear that last line at all.. can't make it out myself but I don't hear " She forgot about us "
You, too, Lorraine?! Well, that takes care of it; too many are hearing it, so that must be what he's sayin'. I give. lol.

Do you know where to find the manequin photos or do you have a link?
I don't know how I managed to get you so curious about this mannequin. It's not a big deal. It was a "guy" mannequin, not a female. It had no association with the LITD girl. I was just jokin' around at the time I posted the pics of it.

I know quite a few fans save a whole bunch of MJ stuff on their computers for easy/later reference, but I don't do that. I keep nothing MJ related on my comp for long. So I do not have the pics I originally posted, nor do I know where to find the one of Blanket and the Malnik boy playing in a room at Hayvenhurst, where the mannequin is in the background sitting on the bar.

The mannequin is only the top half of a guy.

So it's a bit of work for me to find things, but for you, FT, I went on YouTube quickly, had some luck, and copied these two pics from a vid. Hope it will suffice.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9328/edhardymann.png

Favoritetune

05-10-2010, 08:21 PM

Cool Thanks Lashi,

After reading that scripture you read from Thess. I went and read both chapters and have pondered on Paul not being able to reurn there to those people.

I also thought of when an angel in the old testament had informed one of God's people that he had tried to come when he first prayed for understanding of a vision.

10 Then behold, a hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees. 11 He said to me, “O Daniel, man of high esteem, understand the words that I am about to tell you and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you.” And when he had spoken this word to me, I stood up trembling. 12 Then he said to me, “Do not be afraid, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart on understanding this and on humbling yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to your words. 13 “But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia. 14 “Now I have come to give you an understanding of what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision pertains to the days yet future.”

I thought, yes Satan sometimes can delay people from what they are seeking and wondered if Paul ever went to Thess. again. I thought it was highly possible that he did not return but then I also thought that Pauls work in them was complete.

If God does in fact has a litdg for Michael Jackson than their work could not have been complete and it is not the same as one desiring to see many in which they love. In biblical times there were no planes, trains or other fast modes of transportation so when they travelled far that was goodbye forever to many they came to know and love.

Paul suffered more than many but his calling was great.

When you read Daniel you see that angels are working on our behalf and one things I notice is when he was able to come the angel said: then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia. “Now I have come.

This scripture yells to me that prayer is important. I think Michael Jackson and his litdg should have be making every prayer and effort for God's will to be done in their lives and for His holy angels to war on their behalf.

When it is something we want I think Satan perhaps can delay it and maybe even prevent but when it is the will of God only the people involved could deny His blessings and that would be dumb.

Love.him

05-10-2010, 09:49 PM

I agree with you, Lashi. I wouldn't put up with it either.

^ ya know, I find when listening to his hard to hear lyrics that the power of suggestion can be very strong, but I do think I can hear that now. O.o

Well, gee, this then would go over just fine with his LITD girl, huh?... that he is the type who would talk like this with her? Very disrespectful. If a guy said that to me, I'd be gone.

But he seems to have relationships with girls who swear, so maybe it's his "type," and therefore she (LITD girl, if she exists) would be cool with it. I don't think LMP would bat an eye if he said that word around her. Many females wouldn't. I'd have a problem with it.

~ How do the rest of you women who read this thread feel about this? Would you be comfortable in a relationship with a man who swears and uses the f-word around you? Would you feel he still was being respectful to you? What if you observed that he didn't talk that way in front of his mom (can any of you, for example, picture MJ talking like that in front of Katherine?) but he does around you. How would that make you feel? Respected?

Now I know there are guys who swear all the time and are in circles where that is just how they talk, and if I was in the company of that sort of male, then I would understand that it might be too much of a battle to fight to get him to understand it was making me feel disrespected...so I would weigh it, and perhaps let it go. But the man who has given me every indication that he cares about me and wants to be in a relationship with me, yet talks that way with me? No.

Another thing to think about it, if MJ was saying that word because he was upset, frustrated, and angry at the LITD girl for "leaving" or making him feel she didn't want him...whatever, some misunderstanding that had not been talked through yet...well, what would make her think that if she was in a relationship with him and he got angry, hurt, frustrated, he wouldn't lose control and start swearing at her? Couldn't this be a heads up that he might do that? How demeaning to be treated like that by a man you care about. Wouldn't you expect him, if he loves you and cares, to remain respectful even if he is upset, and to communicate what he is feeling to you in rational words in a reasonable way? Wouldnt he want that in return? I would no way if I was angry at someone I valued yell at them or call them names or start cussing just because they upset me (I'm not saying I wouldn't show any signs of being upset...). So, then, I would no way receive or accept that from the man.

Would you girls? Or you guys...would you want your sisters to be talked at like that?

I'm glad your talking about Can't Let Her Get Away. It's so difficult to hear some of the rap. I put in bold what I hear so far. For the high tip bit, I think it might also be "hide it". I also think I hear "hide it" a little later. I might have another listen tomorrow.

Hi Lashi Holmes,

I honestly can't make out all the words there so I don't know what he is saying. It must be pretty intense because it sounds like he has deliberately hidden words in the end of the song, because of that I just listened to that rap like 50 x's and is this is what I got from it. I only wrote what I thought I was hearing so there's gonna be a bunch of things I missed so and nothing is there to inicate the missing spots but it may work for you.

MJ Rap

I got the feelin trouble gonna stop,
I got the feelin she neva gonna drop
I got the feelin she never gonna step
I got the feelin but she never gonna know

I got the feelin that she’s on the high tip
I got the feelin that she never gonna take a break
I got the feelin her head is al f’d up
I got the feelin that she forgot about us

Can’t let go o o o o o o o

I gotta see her

I got the feelin that she never gonna get away

I have a feelin that she never gonna get awy

I can’t let, I can’t let her get away

No no

She wont, she wont, she, she wont do it

I wont let it

Hel no, no, no, no, no

Get away

She wont, she wont, she wont

Hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo

Be together
She wont
With her

Oh no, she wont

O why, o no, she wont ,she wont, she wont, she wont ,she wont, she wont
Never gonna
Live with me

Never drink on the the public on the tele v
Never gonna nothing gonna stop
I never gonna

She gonna stop
I never gonna
Remember me
I never gonna
That she gonna live
I never gonna
Remember we
Gotta be

Thanks for letting us know how the movie is going, Ape. Will it be sold on DVD? It's good to read you again :)

Oh boy, I am way back on page 500 or so in a 700 (almost) page thread and no time to read it. oh woah is me :P. Anyways, I like the last bit of what I read on the last page. I wonder if I will ever get to the nuggets of gold in the pages I've missed or not. (or are there any? well Im sure with all you guys there would be some at least). I hope everyone is doing well. Just wanted to say hello mostly.

(oh and I went to my movie premiere. It went well. It's not out, just had one showing here and it's going to be in some festivals. Other than that not sure). I look awful in it, but that's the role. I liked watching it this time around. The first time I was disappointed but with a full audience it was nice. I enjoyed it more. If anyone was wondering about it.. thought I'd fill you in. I now have a poster with my name on it, which is kind of cool, and a DVD of it.)

Lisha

05-10-2010, 10:35 PM

Hey Love.him! Always nice to see you posting in here. I think maybe you mostly observe, but I'm glad you stopped by today.

So you hear that infamous line, also!!!! :lol: I have a whole long story to post regarding that phrase...it'd be another lengthy post so I'm askin' myself," should I? should I not?" over and over again today.

Keep us posted if you hear some more lines. :)

FT (isn't it nice how I got your username down first to three letters, and now... only two. I feel accomplished!)

One thing that all this in Daniel is perhaps indicating, is that something is needed to "release" a chief angelic prince to be able to come to the aid of the other angels, for they are apparently a higher and more powerful rank.

So what in Daniel's case, did he "do" that released the chief prince, arch-angel, Michael? It seems like a cause and effect thing going on.

What Daniel "did" was he fasted and prayed for those three weeks.

Now that, it seems, is what enabled the chief prince to come.

What else did Daniel "do?" even before that... in fact, the first day he prayed (out of the three weeks). What he did was this, "[he] set [his] heart on understanding ..., and in humbling [himself] before [his] God, [his] words were heard.

So this is where I find it sad that MJ and his LITD girl really had no way to communicate with each other, other than through songs and connecting, maybe... only vaguely, through a spiritual connection (probably no excessive clarity that way). For if they could have only talked to each other, they then together, not physically, but in one accord, could have prayed to God, humbling themselves before God, setting their hearts in understanding what was God's will for them...and together, for a designated length of time, agreed upon between them, simultaneously, fasted.

There would be much power released in that, if... they had both participated in that mutual fast. Perhaps a chief prince would have been dispatched to join the already warring angels, that were fighting the opposition in Satan's camp that were against the LITD girl and MJ ever coming together.

...only the people involved could deny His blessings and that would be dumb
Could you give me an example of where or how people would be denying His blessing? I'm not sure what you mean here.

8701girl

06-10-2010, 01:35 AM

The mannequin is only the top half of a guy.

So it's a bit of work for me to find things, but for you, FT, I went on YouTube quickly, had some luck, and copied these two pics from a vid. Hope it will suffice.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9328/edhardymann.png

:bugeyed:bugeyed Gosh that mannequin looks like a real person!

Lisha

06-10-2010, 03:00 AM

:bugeyed:bugeyed Gosh that mannequin looks like a real person!
I know!

~btw, I'm very glad on how the Let's Talk About Michael forum is now set up. And also, very pleased that this thread is back in Michaelmania! Yay! :clapping:

Thanks, MJJC Staff! :flowers:

EDIT: Looks like the way things are set up has been changed yet again, I can't keep up! But it's good to see the LITD thread is still in Michaelmania. Phew. :)

8701girl

06-10-2010, 11:33 AM

I know!

~btw, I'm very glad on how the Let's Talk About Michael forum is now set up. And also, very pleased that this thread is back in Michaelmania! Yay! :clapping:

Thanks, MJJC Staff! :flowers:

Im also very happy that its back in michaelmania :D

Favoritetune

06-10-2010, 07:59 PM

Hi Lashi, I just meant if they walked away, gave up or even something similiar to Jonah who got directions from God and ran the other way.

I'm glad the the page is back too.

Sorry for mentioning where it sounds like he's cursing. It seems I started something with that.

Okay, so where is AllforMJ? Does she still post here? I noticed we are now in the lucky/blessed 700's of the thread. All for MJ come cellebrate and give us some of your blessed insight!?!

I have an idea, for those who have not read this thread from the start, how about you ladies provide a teaser of your overall thoughts and observations concerning MJ and his possible litd lady? What you had hoped for him/them and what you think they would face if he were here today? What could make them stronger, stay together and overcome all opposition? If people would be accepting or would/should it matter to him/them? and what your personal hopes for MJ were???

I know that's quite a request but I would love to read your insights and am sure others would as well.

Also, those in hiding maybe you can come out and cellebrate Michael's favorite number as well with a post of your own???

No-Body

06-10-2010, 09:09 PM

Lovely to see this little train speedin' away on the railway of love, most of the time that is...There was talk a bit back about Michael's fears about hurting us fans had he come together with the supposed gal in the dark, if she exists, that is. Wouldn't the logical question be – did he think of the fans when he got married twice?

I shouldn't be giving advice to anyone on any particular topic, let alone to those two on how they should have lived their lives, but if this were prior to June 25th 2009 i would tell both Michael and that chick of his to be happy, love each other, don't let nothing and no one stand in their way and don't give a crap about us, cause as much as i hate that word, that's what all of us here are – fans, that and nothing more.

We might feel that we knew the man, but can any of us, truly, honestly say that we did? Some might have even talked to him and met him. The rest of us enjoy his art, we love his message of his love and caring, we admired his strength, we have been with him through his trials and tribulations, we've seen and felt his pain and sorrow but that doesn't mean we knew him completely. Not by a long shot. We only know what he wanted to share.

What about his doubts, confussion, turbulence and violence? I don't think we can truly say we've seen or experienced those. It's easy for us, as fans, to sit and talk and speculate for entertainment purposes about his life, especially now that he is no longer alive and with no possibility whatsover to prove us right or wrong. That means we can basically say or imagine just about anything, there's no way of knowing. I guess that, in a very ironic and tragic, if i may add, way is the appeal of this thread. Anything goes.

All his life Michael had been public property. As long as he belonged to no one, he belonged to everyone. How did someone put it in another thread? His voice made love to millions upon millions of girls. How generous of him, right? Along the years, his body also did share some of that love with some extraordinary ladies. All of them must have had something exciting and intriguing about them if he deemed them worthy enough to share his bed, his energy and some of them even his name.

What about his mind and his soul, with whom did those make love, the rest of the time that is? Wouldn't it be sad if the answer were no one? What if Ash is truly right? What if there is no girl/love in the dark? What if she was just in his imagination – some sort of prototype, an ideal that could never be attained by a typical human?

For the other school of thought of the thread though, here comes another version - what if, somehow, some way, one day the face that might have haunted his dreams for years, for decades even, materialized and was clothed in flesh and bones and got out of his head and into his life? That would pretty amazing, right?

What if that scared him though? As long as she was 'safe' in his imagination, an image and a hidden desire he could cling to when times were rough in reality she was perfect, but once she became fully human that scared him away? It seems to be a well established fact around here that if she does exist (how should i put this in such a way as to not offend the less than supermodel people out there in the world) i got it, her inner self was more appealing than her exterior. What if not only she wasn't anywhere near as pretty as he had built her up to be in his imagination, but also all the other qualities he might have seen in her were nowhere to be found? What if his spiritual eyes were as lousy as his physical ones? What if she wasn't as smart/kind/patient/strong as he thought/wanted/needed her to be? What if he was afraid their encounter would be a total disappointment? What if he was more in love with the idea of her than with her?

What if, on the other hand, he was afraid he might not live up to her expectations of him? What if he feared she had placed him on some sort of pedestal and confused him with the Budapest statue and couldn't handle the reality of who he was as a complete human being?

And a last, but not least hypothesis – what if he was afraid of love? Misery and loneliness can be the most faithful of companions, whilst joy and happiness can be foreign concepts and the most abstract of notions for some people. Some have been hurt so much and so deeply, or have missed so much love for such a long time, perhaps even a lifetime, that when the slightest chance of light and love comes their way they build up defenses fearing that true love is something beyond their worth.

Wouldn't it be sad though to think Michael and maybe his lady felt that way? What if more than failure, success is what scared them? What if they were afraid not of misery, but of love itself? What if the thought of their dreams actually coming true was scarier than anything else?

I've written all of the above (which is quite short by my standards lol) before seing the previous post from...FT, is that the name? But i think what i said fits rather well with those suggestions above. In any case, it's what my potato brain could come up with...y'all keep it up.

Peace and love people, peace and love. God bless you everyone.

Love.him

06-10-2010, 09:55 PM

No, you didn't start anything. People are sharing their opinions just as you are allowed to share yours.

Haven't had a chance to listen again ... Oh, I meant to ask those who have tried to make out the words: What do you hear at I think it's 2:53-2:55? Yesterday when I listened to it I thought it might be " You ain't coming back." The ending is hard to hear b/c of the sound effect used at the end of it; it sounds like it's mixed out, of fast forwarded at the end.

Hi Lashi, I just meant if they walked away, gave up or even something similiar to Jonah who got directions from God and ran the other way.

I'm glad the the page is back too.

Sorry for mentioning where it sounds like he's cursing. It seems I started something with that.

Okay, so where is AllforMJ? Does she still post here? I noticed we are now in the lucky/blessed 700's of the thread. All for MJ come cellebrate and give us some of your blessed insight!?!

I have an idea, for those who have not read this thread from the start, how about you ladies provide a teaser of your overall thoughts and observations concerning MJ and his possible litd lady? What you had hoped for him/them and what you think they would face if he were here today? What could make them stronger, stay together and overcome all opposition? If people would be accepting or would/should it matter to him/them? and what your personal hopes for MJ were???

I know that's quite a request but I would love to read your insights and am sure others would as well.

Also, those in hiding maybe you can come out and cellebrate Michael's favorite number as well with a post of your own???

Favoritetune

06-10-2010, 10:54 PM

Okay Shabuya that was a great post but since you didn't notice what I wrote earlier it is only fair that you give us more:D

Love.him, When I said it seems like I started something I just meant a lot of people were focusing on that one word moreso perhaps than trying to determine what all is he saying and what is the total meaning in the song. Sorry if my post confused anyone when I said that.

as for 2:53-2:55 to me it sound like he's saying I know you aint.

8701girl

07-10-2010, 01:41 AM

but if this were prior to June 25th 2009 i would tell both Michael and that chick of his to be happy, love each other, don't let nothing and no one stand in their way and don't give a crap about us, cause as much as i hate that word, that's what all of us here are – fans, that and nothing more.

We might feel that we knew the man, but can any of us, truly, honestly say that we did? Some might have even talked to him and met him. The rest of us enjoy his art, we love his message of his love and caring, we admired his strength, we have been with him through his trials and tribulations, we've seen and felt his pain and sorrow but that doesn't mean we knew him completely. Not by a long shot. We only know what he wanted to share.

Very true

Favoritetune

07-10-2010, 03:12 AM

Hey guys please pardon this post. I wanted to send it to someone but was unable so maybe if they come to this board they will read it.

Thanks!

Yes, I know that song. Somebod'ys knocking should I let him in.

Did the guy you were warned about hurt you or did you run away from the possibility of being hurt?

I understand if you feel the Lord is pulling you away but maybe it's the devil playing with your past hurts so you wont be able to help those here know God more and His will for them.

Your words are very powerful and when I said before that you speak like an angel I wasn't being guile I was pointing out the obvious kind, insightful godly part of you. I am sure you would agree that there are people here who read this thread that are almost oblivious to God- or should I say was? I think you managed to minister to some of these people. Your words and Mysterious Phoenix has helped me. Remember the scripture that says where two or three gather together in my name I am there in the midst? You did that. God was here.

Did you notice how crazy things got after we spoke so highly of God? They even changed the name of where the thread was located! I don't think whoever did it meant wrong but do you get what I am saying? God was moving! You quoted scripture that was amazingly relevent. Not everyone could or would do that. There is strength in numbers and you're walking away. I wont judge you because only you know what God has placed on your heart or what fears you are running from. What I can say again is I hope our paths will cross again. I may add that I also hope to see you continue to post in the thread if it is God's will and that is what I will pray for. I avoided the selfish prayers I claimed I would likely make:)

Whatever it is you choose to do remember that you made an awesome impact on peoples lives right here.

God bless you!