The Dangerous Tour Discussion Thread [Archive] - The Michael Jackson Community

benscarr

23-07-2008, 11:41 AM

The 1992 leg of Dangerous Tour was awesome, though not a energetic as the Bad Tour (one of the reasons being, Michael was ill whilst on tour with a number of dates been canceled last minute.).

I remember the first of 3 Dangerous concerts I attended, and it was raining most of the day. About 20mins before Michael was due on stage, music by various Motown artists was being played in Wembley Stadium and then something like Keep Me Hanging On by Diana Ross & The Supremes was the second from last song. And the the final song was We Will Rock You by Queen. The sound then went silent, the lights went down and the classical song Carmina Burana started playing, big screens switched on with a montage of Michael Jackson, then "POW" Michael Jackson jumped up on stage. That is the best ever intro to a Michael Jackson concert.

I was amazed by Michael's Wembley Statdium performances, but sadly the Dangerous Tour: Live in Bucharest has erased my own memories of the Dangerous concerts I went to, because it's shockingly crap. The original BBC1 versions screened in November 1992 is dull and Michael lacks energy (he cut the tour short after that concert as he was having problems with his throat, and went to have an operation on it). The official DVD release of the Dangerous Tour is the HBO versions screened in December 1992, and is badly edited with crowds and parts of Michael's performances from many different countries and dates.

There is some great footage of the Dangerous Tour, like MTV's Dangerous Tour Diaries and a MTV Music Awards performances (or some USA awards show) for Michael performing Jam at Wembley Stadium. Full concerts of those performances, would give the Dangerous Tour the credit it deserves because fans who think the Bucharest concert is a true representation of the Dangerous Tour are being mislead and are really missing out.

BONGANI

23-07-2008, 12:18 PM

I'l be sure to check that out Benscarr thanx for the info

Kinga

23-07-2008, 02:24 PM

The is some great footage of the Dangerous Tour, like MTV's Dangerous Tour Diaries and a MTV Music Awards performances (or some USA awards show) for Michael performing Jam at Wembley Stadium. Full concerts of those performances, would give the Dangerous Tour the credit it deserves because fans who think the Bucharest concert is a true representation of the Dangerous Tour are being mislead and are really missing out.

Agreed 100%!!!!

I have attended one Dangerous concert in Vienna in 1992 and the atmosphere in the stadium was AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!! Michael filled the whole stadium with his energy. I was far away from the stage still I could feel it. I still can't believe I was lucky enough to experience the Michael magic (twice :D)!

michaelsson

25-07-2008, 07:45 PM

why r there only 8 replies? THIS IS THE DANGEROUS TOUR PEOPLE!!!!

wannabestartinsomthin21

26-07-2008, 12:43 AM

Ohhhhhhhhhhh maaaaaaaaaaan. Okay. I have all this footage from the "Dangerous Tour", and benscarr, you're right. The Bucharest show doesn't show at all what that tour was like. Some of the footage I have, from various news programmes and documentary's, Michael was sick, and I mean he was so off the chain good that it was scary. His dancing was unreal, just unreal. The level of energy that he had, the power in his steps, combined with the fluidity, the ease, the speed and the cleanness of his lines, it just blows my mind any time I see it. Every time he hit a step, he looked like a coild spring just releasing and all of that wound up energy exploding out in to a totally controlled burst, no sloppiness or excess, and then transitioning that same energy and strength in to the next step with total fluidity.

This tour doesn't get the credit it deserves because Michael didn't sing 100% live, but who cares, lol. His command of the stage, the beauty of his dancing, and his charisma were off the charts.

I didn't know he actually had surgery on his throat though. You could tell on certain dates that he was feeling bad, his energy was way down.

benscarr

26-07-2008, 09:59 AM

This tour doesn't get the credit it deserves because Michael didn't sing 100% live, but who cares, lol. His command of the stage, the beauty of his dancing, and his charisma were off the charts.

Cool post !!!

I'd like to point out to a lot of fans, that one of the reasons Michael didn't song 100% live on the Dangerous Tour was that he was very ill whilst on that tour in 1992. A number of concerts were canceled, and one was canceled at Wembley Stadium just 1hr before Michael was due on stage. Michael even collapsed on stage at Wembley Stadium at the end one concert after performing Man In The Mirror. So at least for the Dangerous Tour their is a good reason for Michael lip-syncing, but I'm not so sure about his reasons for lip-syncing on the History Tour.

I would love it if Michael released another concert from the Dangerous Tour on DVD, because I can't watch BBC1 version (which is much better than the badly edited and contrived HBO version) or the HBO, Live: In Bucharest concerts as there not good concerts and apart from Michael's stunning performance of Working Day And Night, Michael has zero energy on that concert.

wannabestartinsomthin21

26-07-2008, 12:24 PM

Yeah, thanks for the info. I had no idea he was so ill for a large part of that tour. That sucks. And fans gets so harsh with him too over it. On certain shows you can tell he isn't feeling good at all. Which makes it remarkable that he would get out there at all even.

I heard he was suffering from bronchitas (sp?) or something like that on the History tour, which would explain why his voice was so hoarse when he would sing live.

benscarr

26-07-2008, 10:26 PM

I heard he was suffering from bronchitas (sp?) or something like that on the History tour, which would explain why his voice was so hoarse when he would sing live.

I think he was suffering from something like bronchitas. Let's hope when Michael does do another world tour he will be able to sing a full tour live again. Because I think the throat problems Michael had on the Dangerous Tour are part of the reason, Michael lip-synced almost all of the songs on the History Tour, as may have been advised by doctors not to put too much strain on his voice. As Michael does tour for too long, like a year and a half, and most artists and bands only tour for a about 3 or 4 months.

wannabestartinsomthin21

26-07-2008, 10:34 PM

Yeah, that's true. I'm certain that Michael could sing a full tour live no problem. He needed a break though. When you think about it, the Bad tour lasted from 87 to 89, then he began touring again in 92-93, and then again from 96 to 97. So for that whole period, from 87 to 97, he toured for 4 out of those ten years. That's a lot. I think he'll be okay, vocally, now. And like you said, he goes on the road for so long, and does such long shows, over two hours, it had to have taken a tole with so little rest in between each one. But I'm sure now he would be fine.

michaelsson

27-07-2008, 09:02 AM

mike had laryngitis on the history tour,his dr didnt want him 2tour,but yall kno mike lol the show must go on so mimin was the alternative

wannabestartinsomthin21

27-07-2008, 09:07 AM

Yeah, that was it, larygitis.

benscarr

27-07-2008, 10:00 AM

Michael said in his autobiography Moonwalk, that he had problems with his throat on some concerts on the Destiny Tour and that Marlon had to sing some of his parts on some songs. Because when you think about it, Michael may have started having vocal problems with his throat at a younger age than most artists, he's been touring since he was he was 11yrs old. And from 1970-81 the Jackson 5/Jacksons toured every year, and that's going from the age of 11 to only 23, and 23 is an age most artist will start touring in an intense way.

michaelsson

28-07-2008, 08:44 AM

michael said in his autobiography moonwalk, that he had problems with his throat on some concerts on the destiny tour and that marlon had to sing some of his parts on some songs. Because when you think about it, michael may have started having vocal problems with his throat at a younger age than most artists, he's been touring since he was he was 11yrs old. And from 1970-81 the jackson 5/jacksons toured every year, and that's going from the age of 11 to only 23, and 23 is an age most artist will start touring in an intense way.

trueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Toffy

30-07-2008, 06:30 AM

OMG THE FREAKING DANGEROUS TOUR!!! :w00t: ::jumps up and down all excited::

IDK why, but man the attitude and feel of this tour was just AMAZING... Speaking as a lighting designer, this show just blew me away in regards as to what they accomplished as far as special effects go in the early 90s. Even the stuff that was still every day technology at the time was used just brilliantly... I mean come on, you can't tell me you didn't absolutely LOVE those strobes during Jam!!! :D

This tour was also the tour that I felt Mike's whole "Mysterious" thing was at it's best, both with the theme of the album and with how he presented the tour. Part of it had to do with the fact that he pretty much NEVER talked to the audience, but how he entered, exited, and presented himself was just so incredibly crafted to perfection of the whole Dangerous 'feel'.

I could just talk about the Dangerous tour until the cows come home! BTW, I personally love the Bucharest DVD... ::dodges tomatoes::

RockWithLou

03-08-2008, 07:02 PM

BEST TOUR!!!! Gahhhh, I love it so much. :wub:

I love the outfit and I don't even know why! I love his hair during the Dangerous tour! Although all the songs wern't live the ones he did sing live were amazing!!! I don't mind lip syncing anyway. :lol: I LOVE the Working Day and Night pants. :drool: :lol:

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/Louchambers/020.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/Louchambers/mj1497.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/Louchambers/103-1-1.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/Louchambers/113-1.jpg

wannabestartinsomthin21

04-08-2008, 06:21 AM

Well Michael was just freakin' intense beyond description. Hands down the greatest performing artist that ever lived.

BONGANI

04-08-2008, 07:31 AM

mike had laryngitis on the history tour,his dr didnt want him 2tour,but yall kno mike lol the show must go on so mimin was the alternative
Some fans hace said that the laryngitis thing was never confirmed and its only a fan myth. How true is that? Or rather.. ho false is that?

K.O.S.

06-08-2008, 07:25 PM

Michaels voice problems started with the Bad Tour, he mimed more songs at the end of the tour, and if you listen to the 1989 Los Angeles concert on youtube you hear his voice and you know he has laryngitis. He got that heavily on the DT, so he took painkillers to handle shows. He got addicted at the end and the rest is history. That is why he mimed most of the songs on HT, because DT nearly destroyed his voice.

I personally like Dangerous and History more then Bad because of the dancing. Michaels dancing went on to another level after Bad, so I never think of Bad as his best even if he did sing more live. The best concerts from DT are at the beginning. BJ Munich is in my opinion the most energetic performance of that song. his concerts in Sweden, wembley and belgium were powerful. but around september, october 1992 he got tired. same thing on HT. he had less energy on the second leg then the first

K.O.S.

06-08-2008, 07:27 PM

laryngitis is very common for singers, and singers who sing with a high pitch voice contracts it easier. It is not a myth, but a serious problem for MJ.

simon89

06-08-2008, 10:22 PM

Look at the tour's dates. I mean the Bad Tour was 123 concerts! Some 3-5 concerts in a row some of them. Harsh for the throat!

simon89

06-08-2008, 10:26 PM

What was the Dangerous Tour's total gross?

wannabestartinsomthin21

07-08-2008, 08:12 AM

That's really scary when you think about it. If Michael lost his voice, that would be devestating. So people complaining about him miming should cut him a break, seriously. I never knew he started taking pain killers because of his throat problems on the Dangerous tour. Where did you find that out K.O.S.? If you don't mind my asking. That's sad.

K.O.S.

07-08-2008, 02:11 PM

Michael cancelled the tour and taped a audio recording where he explained why he had to cancel, back in 1993. Elisabeth Taylor also talked about it on the Diane Saywer interview in 1995. Michael has actually been taking painkillers since the burning accident in 1984 during the pepsi commercial. So I think he had the problem way before Dangerous tour. That may have also prompted the decision to mime on the History Tour. He was maybe also scared he would get addicted again if he got throat problems.

wannabestartinsomthin21

08-08-2008, 01:42 AM

Oh I know about his past addiction to pain medication and the fact that he's taken pain medication througout the years for various things, I just wasn't aware that he was taking them to deal with the throat problems is all.

K.O.S.

08-08-2008, 03:34 PM

Laryngitis is very painful

wannabestartinsomthin21

09-08-2008, 03:43 AM

Oh, see, I didn't know that, lol. But thank you for the info.

michaelsson

10-08-2008, 12:59 AM

Some fans hace said that the laryngitis thing was never confirmed and its only a fan myth. How true is that? Or rather.. ho false is that?

This was 100percent True.

startinsomethin87

29-04-2009, 05:05 PM

*bump*

Just found this thread. :)

You know, it's pretty interesting when you start watching all the Dangerous Tour vids/listening to all the audio available and begin to notice things.

For one, it's no wonder the poor man got throat problems on this tour. Listen to the first show in Munich audio, especially WBSS and Beat It.

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He sang them both in the same key as they are on the Thriller album ... which is HIGH. You can tell he was forcing his voice to go higher than I think it wanted to, and he did those songs that high for the first few shows, too. You can tell that, along with the intense dancing, it all got a bit too much, because once he got to Rome he knocked the key of WBSS down a couple notches, and then again at the second Stockholm show (to the key it remained for the rest of the tour).

Hopefully his live voice is back up to par for the "This is It" shows, even if he does have to sing some songs in a lower key.

Billie The Kid Jean

08-05-2009, 10:51 AM

Is it true that at some concerts MJ closed the concert with heal the world and didnt even sing man in the mirror?

L.T.D

08-05-2009, 02:19 PM

So people say he laryngitis on the Dangerous Tour, then he had Laryngitis on the HIStory tour as well? So it lasted 5 years.........

I think he may have had it on HIStory Tour but Dangerous Tour im not sos ure about. he didnt even sound bad on The Dangerous Tour :S He didnt sound to good on Wanna Be Startin Somethin, but before that he had just done Jam which is very energetic. Not to mention that he is also dancing all the way through Wanna Be Startin Somethin.

benscarr

08-05-2009, 05:03 PM

The interesting thing about the Dangerous Tour where Michael had serious throat problems, and the mainly lip-synced History Tour is that Michael always sang the Jackson 5 medley very well, and I'll Be There live beautifully.

Birchey

08-05-2009, 06:36 PM

The Laryngitis thing is blown wellout of proportion, It did not effect any part of Michaels tours concerning Lip Synching, anyone who claims he mimed due to Throat problems, doesn't know there stuff! Michael Lip Synched because he could and not for NO medical reason!

michaelsson

08-05-2009, 06:42 PM

Birchey

08-05-2009, 06:51 PM

footage/audio proves otherwise

So how you say that, cuz in my opinion its the footage and audio which proves Lip Syncing had nothing to do with Michaels medical problems

michaelsson

09-05-2009, 12:49 AM

So how you say that, cuz in my opinion its the footage and audio which proves Lip Syncing had nothing to do with Michaels medical problems

well of couse not. it wud be the other way around lol. he has been having throat problems for a while,hes said it himself.(i kno u kno that tho lol) and its evident during scream (brunei),some wbss perfomances and def some j5 medley performances where his vocals were scratchy and strained. Even during the 93perfromaces of wbss some were strained.And in the 93 mexico depo he complained about his coughing. but 2each his own

Birchey

09-05-2009, 12:55 AM

well of couse not. it wud be the other way around lol. he has been having throat problems for a while,hes said it himself.(i kno u kno that tho lol) and its evident during scream (brunei),some wbss perfomances and def some j5 medley performances where his vocals were scratchy and strained. Even during the 93perfromaces of wbss some were strained.And in the 93 mexico depo he complained about his coughing. but 2each his own

Yes I know he had throat problems but it doesn't change the fact that he lip synced, you see alot of people blame lip syncing on his medical problems but its simply not true, Michael tours were rehearsed with these songs lip synced, he performed them from start to finish of the tour without singing them live once, not once, the songs were always gonna be lip synced no matter what Michael health, Michael real problem came just before the Rome bad tour concert, he was told not to do the concert but went ahead with it.

Also another note is the last Bad Tour wembley concert, Michaels voice was horrible, he hardly sung the opening number well, but he still did the live songs live and the lip synced, mimed, its because thats the way the show was planned to be.

His throat problems came out of constant singing/rehearsing most nights, but we also have to remember the lip syncing was planned well before any throat problems. Its is just easier for Mike to lip sync, even though most the time he is actually singing along to the lip sync ha ha

TheDangerousFan

09-05-2009, 06:29 PM

Birchey

09-05-2009, 08:12 PM

This is from the final wembley show, listen to how bad his vocals are, also his voice is bad at leeds too, the next concert! I should be getting this concert in full audio in the next couple of weeks

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TheDangerousFan

10-05-2009, 04:54 PM

OMG His voice is really bad here.There are some History concerts better than this WBBS performance.You can really tell that there is something in 3:11 .Poor Mike.Hope his voice is better now.

michaelsson

10-05-2009, 05:57 PM

Yes I know he had throat problems but it doesn't change the fact that he lip synced, you see alot of people blame lip syncing on his medical problems but its simply not true, Michael tours were rehearsed with these songs lip synced, he performed them from start to finish of the tour without singing them live once, not once, the songs were always gonna be lip synced no matter what Michael health, Michael real problem came just before the Rome bad tour concert, he was told not to do the concert but went ahead with it.

Also another note is the last Bad Tour wembley concert, Michaels voice was horrible, he hardly sung the opening number well, but he still did the live songs live and the lip synced, mimed, its because thats the way the show was planned to be.

His throat problems came out of constant singing/rehearsing most nights, but we also have to remember the lip syncing was planned well before any throat problems. Its is just easier for Mike to lip sync, even though most the time he is actually singing along to the lip sync ha ha

well i agree,it definately doesnt change the fact he lyp synced but maybe it was intended to be done that way because he wasnt happy with his voclas. during the history tour rehearsals he sung stranger in moscow live and sounded awesome. if i was having throat issues and i knew it was a problem and i wasnt satisfied with my vocals, my black ass would've been lyp syncin 2 lol. and thanx 4 the bad tour audi,im gonna go list now

michaelsson

10-05-2009, 06:02 PM

Dorian

10-05-2009, 07:05 PM

What happened on the Rome concert from Bad tour?

john13th

10-05-2009, 08:53 PM

Of all the Bad Tour concerts that I have seen/heard, I would say that the first concert he did in Europe, which was in Rome was vocally the worst. He sounded tired, out of shape and not as powerful as he did in the later concert of the european leg, japanese leg and the american leg of the tour.

Zeus 7

10-05-2009, 09:06 PM

Ive loved all the Dangerous/Bad performances Ive seen, maybe alot of people are right about his vocals sounding poor, anybodies would though after so many shows?

We`re did you see/here this?? Do you have a link, please?

during the history tour rehearsals he sung stranger in moscow live and sounded awesome.

Birchey

10-05-2009, 09:33 PM

i dont think he sounded that bad @ all,if this is bad ill take it any day lol

Its bad tour, we all love it :)

But if you compare his vocals from that show to say, the night before you can hear the strain on his voice :(

And also we only have a small clip from the end of the SIM Rehearsals (I leaked that clip and there is no more) he might well have mimed the rest of the song, all we have is the end.

I just think MIchael knows he can get away with miming, plus he is a perfectionist as we all know. Michael doesn't have throat problems for 2 years running, there is no excuse to mime most you're tracklist for over 100 or so shows. Even when we got rare glimpses at these songs live it was because Michaels playback failed or because his Microphone channel was still switched up, lol thats another thing, Michael does actually sing the songs even though he is lip-syncing

michaelsson

11-05-2009, 01:22 AM

Its bad tour, we all love it :)

But if you compare his vocals from that show to say, the night before you can hear the strain on his voice :(

And also we only have a small clip from the end of the SIM Rehearsals (I leaked that clip and there is no more) he might well have mimed the rest of the song, all we have is the end.

I just think MIchael knows he can get away with miming, plus he is a perfectionist as we all know. Michael doesn't have throat problems for 2 years running, there is no excuse to mime most you're tracklist for over 100 or so shows. Even when we got rare glimpses at these songs live it was because Michaels playback failed or because his Microphone channel was still switched up, lol thats another thing, Michael does actually sing the songs even though he is lip-syncing

lol ur right we all do love the bad tour. do u have the audio 4rm the previous night?

and u leaked that clip? thank u soooooooooo much lolololololololol

and yea i know hes actully singin his mic is usually turned down. i always laugh when im watchin the auckland show during thriller when he tells the guy 2 turn the mic down or during sum billi jean performances he tellin them to turn the mic up lol

michaelsson

11-05-2009, 01:23 AM

We`re did you see/here this?? Do you have a link, please?

i have it on my ipod. akonmj is the original uploader of the clip hes the reaon we have it,the file is probably on my other computer id have 2look 4it. try youtube tho

Birchey

11-05-2009, 11:22 AM

i have it on my ipod. akonmj is the original uploader of the clip hes the reaon we have it,the file is probably on my other computer id have 2look 4it. try youtube tho

Thats not actually my clip sadly, the guy who uploaded it has a few Japanese bad tour clips, I do have alot of other rare bad tour clips on my channel which is: www.youtube.com/birchey3000

TheDangerousFan

11-05-2009, 12:56 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5etxr2v3Qjo here is the Stranger Moscow Rehearsel - his voice is so powerfull!Like In The Bad Tour

K.O.S.

11-05-2009, 01:11 PM

Yes I know he had throat problems but it doesn't change the fact that he lip synced, you see alot of people blame lip syncing on his medical problems but its simply not true, Michael tours were rehearsed with these songs lip synced, he performed them from start to finish of the tour without singing them live once, not once, the songs were always gonna be lip synced no matter what Michael health, Michael real problem came just before the Rome bad tour concert, he was told not to do the concert but went ahead with it.

Also another note is the last Bad Tour wembley concert, Michaels voice was horrible, he hardly sung the opening number well, but he still did the live songs live and the lip synced, mimed, its because thats the way the show was planned to be.

His throat problems came out of constant singing/rehearsing most nights, but we also have to remember the lip syncing was planned well before any throat problems. Its is just easier for Mike to lip sync, even though most the time he is actually singing along to the lip sync ha ha

This is false. Michael did not lip sync the History Tour rehearsals. There are videos on youtube that proves that.

And everyone has got the facts wrong. Michael had laryngitis on the Dangerous Tour, and had to cancel several concerts due to his health. He also became addicted to pain killers because he had to take the pills to be able to sing and do the concerts.

THIS is why Michael at the end of the History Tour rehearsals decided to mime most of the songs. He did not want to go through what he went through during the Dangerous Tour.

All the concerts for the entire History Tour was mimed and sung live in the exact same manner on each of the 82 concerts, so yes Michael planned this. But the reason was because of what he endured during the Dangerous Tour.

Dorian

11-05-2009, 04:13 PM

Does someone have the full rehearsal?

michaelsson

12-05-2009, 06:01 AM

Thats not actually my clip sadly, the guy who uploaded it has a few Japanese bad tour clips, I do have alot of other rare bad tour clips on my channel which is: www.youtube.com/birchey3000

-subscribed - lol

benscarr

12-05-2009, 02:22 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5etxr2v3Qjo here is the Stranger Moscow Rehearsel - his voice is so powerfull!Like In The Bad Tour

This isn't a rehearsal, sounds like an audio from an actual concert.

dangerous2000watts

12-05-2009, 04:10 PM

The outfit looked so nice I really thought it was when I was a kid

Michael has many different styles and he has been changed a lot (due to the hairstyles and ages mostly), if I have to choose one favorite look of MJ, I would go with "Dangerous era MJ'.
He was so perfect!
The toaster thing was amazing I still got goose bumps whenever I looked at the scenes! It was revolutionary!

startinsomethin87

12-05-2009, 07:03 PM

The toaster thing was amazing I still got goose bumps whenever I looked at the scenes! It was revolutionary!

I've always wondered what it would be like to be shot out that thing. lol

michaelsson

12-05-2009, 07:10 PM

This isn't a rehearsal, sounds like an audio from an actual concert.

it was rehearsals. a few fans were invited 2watch

82Thriller84

12-05-2009, 08:10 PM

Birchey

12-05-2009, 10:16 PM

This is false. Michael did not lip sync the History Tour rehearsals. There are videos on youtube that proves that

Where exactly are these videos? Show me one?

And you say HIStory tour was lip-synced every night because he didn't want to go through what he went through on Dangerous Tour..............Dangerous tour which was also heavily lip synced ha ha

FACT! Michael lip-synced because he could, not due to no illness, its proven in the fact both tours were planned to be lip-synced in parts. here is another great proving point

Why did michael lip-sync all songs apart from J5 Medley & WBSS on HIStory tour...........Because they were the only 2 songs he couldn't get away with, WBSS would have been too slow, the vocals are not power full and it would have been blatantly lip-synced, J5 Medley, well a 10 year old MJ voice would be weird lol

And bad tour was re-arranged to include some lip-syncing, Michael does this because he can, not because of an illness

Also why does he lip-sync on one off shows? BECAUSE HE CAN

All Earth song performances, Dangerous performances, Elizabeth I Love You and so on, He does this because the songs are not rehearsed to be done live

Birchey

12-05-2009, 10:18 PM

This isn't a rehearsal, sounds like an audio from an actual concert.

Its an amazteur recording taken from a VHS tape, we only have parts of the rehearsals sadly, I got hold of the SIM clip and uploaded it for fans a few years back, I have been trying to get more

benscarr

13-05-2009, 03:17 PM

it was rehearsals. a few fans were invited 2watch

You could be right, but I'm still not convinced. Where was the rehearsal, and why were a few fans invited.

Where exactly are these videos? Show me one?

And you say HIStory tour was lip-synced every night because he didn't want to go through what he went through on Dangerous Tour..............Dangerous tour which was also heavily lip synced ha ha

FACT! Michael lip-synced because he could, not due to no illness, its proven in the fact both tours were planned to be lip-synced in parts. here is another great proving point

Why did michael lip-sync all songs apart from J5 Medley & WBSS on HIStory tour...........Because they were the only 2 songs he couldn't get away with, WBSS would have been too slow, the vocals are not power full and it would have been blatantly lip-synced, J5 Medley, well a 10 year old MJ voice would be weird lol

And bad tour was re-arranged to include some lip-syncing, Michael does this because he can, not because of an illness

Also why does he lip-sync on one off shows? BECAUSE HE CAN

All Earth song performances, Dangerous performances, Elizabeth I Love You and so on, He does this because the songs are not rehearsed to be done live

Where don't know the reasons why Michael choose to lip-sync the majority of the songs on the History Tour. Maybe is like you said "Because he can", and maybe the after years of touring from the 1960's to the Bad Tour which was gruling took it's tool on the Bad Tour which obviously had an effect on the Dangerous Tour, and Michael may have been advised not to sing live again or for some years on long tours. It could be that Michael can't be bothered to sing live and was just lazy. Basically we don't know the full facts, just our own speculation.

You said Michael sang Wanna Be Startin Somethin, J5 Medley live and HIStory (HIStory was lip-synced) because he wouldn't be able to get away with lip-syncing them. Well Michael could get away with lip-syncing them (even though he sag WBSS and the J5 Medley live), because he could re-recorded live vocal versions of them and use them as playback to lip-sync as Michael did with You Rock My World on the MSG 30th Anniversary concerts in 2005. Michael's also sang the J5 medley many times as an adult, and could use audio recordings of rehearsals from previous tours etc and digitally extract ay background noise. As for not lip-syncing Wanna Be Startin Somethin on the History Tour, wouldn't be because in your view the vocals would be too slow, it would be because the song contains a number of sound effects such as wispers etc.

FACT! There is no proven fact that both the Dangerous and History Tours were planned to be lip-synced in parts, if you mean that the public and fans were supposed to know it was a lip-synced tour. The Dangerous Tour had far more live vocals than lip-synced, nearly every song was sang 100% live except about 3 or 4. And quite a number of Dangerous concerts were cancelled in 1992 during to throat problems Michael was having. If the Dangerous Tour was planned to be a lip synced tour, then Michael would never have done rehearsals and sang live on them <object height="344" width="425">

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The History Tour may or may not have ended up being tour planned to be lip synced tour, but it's not a proven fact that it was planned from the start. Fans attending Michael's History Tour were supposed to have though he was singing live, and it's obvious it wasn't. Also you say Michael wouldn't get away with lip-syncing certain songs like WBSS, when the fact is Michael doesn't get away with lip-syncing any songs on tour because he's the worst as lip-syncing as he's a naturally good at singing live on tour.

Another thing about the History Tour is that Michael lip-synced songs like You Are Not Alone and a few others and sang the end parts of the songs live. On Beat It Michael lip-synced the first half of the song until the guitar part, then on the last part of the song with the dancing Michael would sing live. And that is before the extended brake down on Beat It.

Its an amazteur recording taken from a VHS tape, we only have parts of the rehearsals sadly, I got hold of the SIM clip and uploaded it for fans a few years back, I have been trying to get more

But doesn't sound like a rehearsal ?, it sounds like an actual concert that's been passed off as a rehearsal because if the screaming fans, which you don't get at rehearsals.

michaelsson

13-05-2009, 03:37 PM

You could be right, but I'm still not convinced. Where was the rehearsal, and why were a few fans invited.

But doesn't sound like a rehearsal ?, it sounds like an actual concert that's been passed off as a rehearsal because if the screaming fans, which you don't get at rehearsals.

rehearsals were iin prgue. and the fans werent loud enough 4 it 2even be considered 2be a concert lol

Birchey

13-05-2009, 06:48 PM

You said Michael sang Wanna Be Startin Somethin, J5 Medley live and HIStory (HIStory was lip-synced) because he wouldn't be able to get away with lip-syncing them. Well Michael could get away with lip-syncing them (even though he sag WBSS and the J5 Medley live), because he could re-recorded live vocal versions of them and use them as playback to lip-sync as Michael did with You Rock My World on the MSG 30th Anniversary concerts in 2005. Michael's also sang the J5 medley many times as an adult, and could use audio recordings of rehearsals from previous tours etc and digitally extract ay background noise. As for not lip-syncing Wanna Be Startin Somethin on the History Tour, wouldn't be because in your view the vocals would be too slow, it would be because the song contains a number of sound effects such as wispers etc

Michael never used re-recorded vocals for any of the shows, all the vocals came from the studio cuts, he obviously didn't feel the need to re-record or didn't have time.

FACT! There is no proven fact that both the Dangerous and History Tours were planned to be lip-synced in parts, if you mean that the public and fans were supposed to know it was a lip-synced tour. The Dangerous Tour had far more live vocals than lip-synced, nearly every song was sang 100% live except about 3 or 4. And quite a number of Dangerous concerts were cancelled in 1992 during to throat problems Michael was having. If the Dangerous Tour was planned to be a lip synced tour, then Michael would never have done rehearsals and sang live on them

Lol at refering to the DWT rehearsals, these were early rehearsals, dance rehearsal in fact, Michael didn't even know what was going on most the way through them, and even on those Smooth Criminal had the original backing voclas being played, The reason Michael sung those live (Like he was trying) was because playing his vocals over the top would stupid because the whole point of the show was to co-ordinate things, and Michael is giving instructions throughout those rehearsals, the tapes where then given to the dancers and band to take home and rehearse privately.

songs that were mimed, Jam, Smooth Criminal, Thriller, Will you be there, The Way You Make Me Feel, Bad, Black Or White, Heal The World, Man In The Mirror thats 9 songs not 3 or 4, thats half the setlist!

Listen to the Munich rehearsals audio, they are NOT sung live!

Also on another note, why did Michael mime almost all his one off performances? Elizabeth I Love you, How Crazy is that!

But doesn't sound like a rehearsal ?, it sounds like an actual concert that's been passed off as a rehearsal because if the screaming fans, which you don't get at rehearsals.

Those are from Prague rehearsals, I got the clip from a friend and leaked it online a few years back, the show was held at Letna Park, Park being the keyword, it was open air I believe, you can search the rehearsals video on youtube, they try to cover the stage with black material so people can't see :)

benscarr

13-05-2009, 07:08 PM

Michael never used re-recorded vocals for any of the shows, all the vocals came from the studio cuts, he obviously didn't feel the need to re-record or didn't have time.

I am very aware does use vocals from his studio cuts when he's lip-synced on tour. And you have misread what I said, which is that Michael could have re-recorded live vocals for songs on his tours like WBSS if he wanted to. And Michael did re-recorded a live vocal for YRMW in 2001.

Lol at refering to the DWT rehearsals, these were early rehearsals, dance rehearsal in fact, Michael didn't even know what was going on most the way through them, and even on those Smooth Criminal had the original backing voclas being played, The reason Michael sung those live (Like he was trying) was because playing his vocals over the top would stupid because the whole point of the show was to co-ordinate things, and Michael is giving instructions throughout those rehearsals, the tapes where then given to the dancers and band to take home and rehearse privately.

songs that were mimed, Jam, Smooth Criminal, Thriller, Will you be there, The Way You Make Me Feel, Bad, Black Or White, Heal The World, Man In The Mirror thats 9 songs not 3 or 4, thats half the setlist!

Listen to the Munich rehearsals audio, they are NOT sung live!

For a start, Michael only performed Bad and The Way You Make Me Feel at his first concert in Munich in 1992, after that they were dropped from the setlist.

The amount of songs Michael lip-synced depended on his problems at the time. Michael may have ip-synced more songs that 3 or 4, but the tour was mostly sang live WBSS/ Human Nature, Smooth Criminal (sometimes lip-synced) / Black Or White (sometimes lip-synced) / Billie Jean/ Beat It/ Working Day and Night were sang live. The Dangerous Tour was not planned as a lip-synced tour, Michael was ill on that tour due to thoat problems in 1992, and then on the 1993 leg when the false abuse accusations happened he was addicted to pain killers. Plus on the 1993 leg Beat It was dropped from the set list, and may have been replaced by Dangerous.

Also on another note, why did Michael mime almost all his one off performances? Elizabeth I Love you, How Crazy is that!

Michael should sing live on all if one off televsion performances, as I hate lip-syncing. I also don't like the song or performance of Elizabeth I Love you.

How Crazy is that! well you tell me because what exactly is it your saying. Are you saying Michael can't sing live ?

Those are from Prague rehearsals, I got the clip from a friend and leaked it online a few years back, the show was held at Letna Park, Park being the keyword, it was open air I believe, you can search the rehearsals video on youtube, they try to cover the stage with black material so people can't see :)

I can't find a YouTube link for the Prague rehearsal, except for that Stranger In Moscow segment.

rehearsals were iin prgue. and the fans werent loud enough 4 it 2even be considered 2be a concert lol

I'm still not 100% convinced.

michaelsson

13-05-2009, 08:32 PM

I'm still not 100% convinced.

have u seen/heard the audio 4rm the prague show? major difference seeing how has stranger in moscow isnt live and the crowd was loud ass hell

Birchey

13-05-2009, 08:38 PM

I am very aware does use vocals from his studio cuts when he's lip-synced on tour. And you have misread what I said, which is that Michael could have re-recorded live vocals for songs on his tours like WBSS if he wanted to. And Michael did re-recorded a live vocal for YRMW in 2001.

For a start, Michael only performed Bad and The Way You Make Me Feel at his first concert in Munich in 1992, after that they were dropped from the setlist.

The amount of songs Michael lip-synced depended on his problems at the time. Michael may have ip-synced more songs that 3 or 4, but the tour was mostly sang live WBSS/ Human Nature, Smooth Criminal (sometimes lip-synced) / Black Or White (sometimes lip-synced) / Billie Jean/ Beat It/ Working Day and Night were sang live. The Dangerous Tour was not planned as a lip-synced tour, Michael was ill on that tour due to thoat problems in 1992, and then on the 1993 leg when the false abuse accusations happened he was addicted to pain killers. Plus on the 1993 leg Beat It was dropped from the set list, and may have been replaced by Dangerous.

Michael should sing live on all if one off televsion performances, as I hate lip-syncing. I also don't like the song or performance of Elizabeth I Love you.

How Crazy is that! well you tell me because what exactly is it your saying. Are you saying Michael can't sing live ?

I can't find a YouTube link for the Prague rehearsal, except for that Stranger In Moscow segment.

I'm still not 100% convinced.

Okay seems, you don't know too much about MJ live, for a start its a joke to say he sung Smooth Criminal live on Dangerous tour, it was lip-synced from start to finish! Black or White was lip-synced on all but maybe 3 or 4 shows as an estimate, nearly every recording bar munich, cologne, and wembley (Maybe not heard live in the stadium, but later added to the song for a special airing on tv).

We we're talking about MIchael planning on lip-syncing from the beginning, hence I included TWYMMF & Bad, BUT these were added back into the set-list later in the tour :)

I do agree about the 1993 shows, he was in some serious problems but listen to his vocals on the opening show and tell me he has throat problems.........

About Elizabeth I Love You, I said it was crazy because no one actually knows why he mimed it? It was a one off, slow performance that he could have pulled off nicely, but he mimed it after the abut a minute inot the song til the end :S

PRAGUE REHEARSALS - NOT A CONCERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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:):):):):)

benscarr

14-05-2009, 01:22 PM

Okay seems, you don't know too much about MJ live, for a start its a joke to say he sung Smooth Criminal live on Dangerous tour, it was lip-synced from start to finish! Black or White was lip-synced on all but maybe 3 or 4 shows as an estimate, nearly every recording bar munich, cologne, and wembley (Maybe not heard live in the stadium, but later added to the song for a special airing on tv).

We we're talking about MIchael planning on lip-syncing from the beginning, hence I included TWYMMF & Bad, BUT these were added back into the set-list later in the tour :)

I do agree about the 1993 shows, he was in some serious problems but listen to his vocals on the opening show and tell me he has throat problems.........

About Elizabeth I Love You, I said it was crazy because no one actually knows why he mimed it? It was a one off, slow performance that he could have pulled off nicely, but he mimed it after the abut a minute inot the song til the end :S

PRAGUE REHEARSALS - NOT A CONCERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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:):):):):)

Good rehearsal footage, and I'm now convinced the Stranger In Moscow audio is from a rehearsal.

Don't tell me I don't know much about Michael live, I know my stuff. You can disagree with me, but have some respect when you debate with people otherwise don't bother.

Birchey

14-05-2009, 02:43 PM

Good rehearsal footage, and I'm now convinced the Stranger In Moscow audio is from a rehearsal.

Don't tell me I don't know much about Michael live, I know my stuff. You can disagree with me, but have some respect when you debate with people otherwise don't bother.

I do have respect, and give respect when its due, but you obviously commented rashly without doing any homework and it appeared that you didn't know much, So you set yourself up for that. I know a great deal about Michael live, its what I do, Its my main fascination with Michael so naturally when people relay wrong info, I have to step up. Over time I have done this and corrected the MJ community on alot of things I.E Dates of live shows, venues and so on

Dorian

15-05-2009, 05:47 AM

Birchey,you said he didn't use pre-recorded tracks.

What about the TYMMF solo at MSG in 2001?
Wasn't it pre-recorded?

Birchey

15-05-2009, 07:34 AM

Birchey,you said he didn't use pre-recorded tracks.

What about the TYMMF solo at MSG in 2001?
Wasn't it pre-recorded?

I said re-recorded, he never recorded any new vocals for his tour, he did use slightly different vocals ocassionally but from the studio sessions, in Will You Be There, it has different lyrics on one line :)

and TWYMMF 2001 was the album version just knocked down a semitone or so to match his rougher voice now ;) He did the same with beat It. I am not sure about what Ben said about You Rock My World, I will have to watch when I get home from work, but I think he sung it partly live one night, they mixed both nights up though on the Televised version, I am pretty sure he never re-recorded vocals especially for the show if he did. He probably used different studio cut vocals, I will watch :)

benscarr

15-05-2009, 08:23 AM

I do have respect, and give respect when its due, but you obviously commented rashly without doing any homework and it appeared that you didn't know much, So you set yourself up for that. I know a great deal about Michael live, its what I do, Its my main fascination with Michael so naturally when people relay wrong info, I have to step up. Over time I have done this and corrected the MJ community on alot of things I.E Dates of live shows, venues and so on

I know my stuff about Michael Jackson live, and don't mind admiting when I'm wrong. To say I don't now about Michael Jackson live is a sweeping statement. I will be transfering my video of the Dangerous Rehearsal over to DVD, and I'll watch it again to see if Michael had planned to lip-sync on the Dangerous Tour. I'll try and get hold of a tape recorder to listen to cassettes I have of various Dangerous concerts from 1992 as I still see some of what you say debateable. Also when replying to a debate, I don't appreciate sarcastic LOL's as I don't respect people who are sarcastic or arrogant in there responses. I don't mind having things pointed out if I'm wrong on a fact, because it adds to my knowledge.

I know my stuff, and I have a I have a huge archive bootleg videos, DVD's, and audio recording ie cassettes, cds and vinyls that I've been collecting for over 20yrs. I don't mind saying my knowlewdge of the Dangerous Tour is a bit rusty, as it's not a favorite era of mine and I very rarely watch or listen to the Dangerous concerts I have. But now I'm thinking about it, I'll be transfering MTV's Dangerous Tour Diaries I recorded on video in 1992 over to DVD as that was a cool programme. And I'll have a look at the other Dangerous era live stuff I have.

Respect should be given when replying to a members post (epecially when they have made no personal comments, or sweeping statements etc), it's not something that's given when you feel credit is due.

Don't accuse me of spreading false info on YouTube, and all this crap about there being a difference in having an opinon and fact etc, there was no need so be so f*cking aggressive when I have said I was wrong about the audio for the rehearsal on Stranger In Moscow on here and on YouTube, because I could have completely ingnored it. That's obviously not good enough for you.

I am not sure about what Ben said about You Rock My World, I will have to watch when I get home from work

Your view that Michael may have used an unused vocal cut from YRMW studio recording is possible. But why do you need to watch it again, when accroding to you I don't know anything about Michael Jackson live.

I would suggest you stop telling me I don't know anything or have little knowledge of Michael Jackson live, and we stop this heated debate and start are more friendly one.

Birchey

15-05-2009, 03:30 PM

I know my stuff about Michael Jackson live, and don't mind admiting when I'm wrong. To say I don't now about Michael Jackson live is a sweeping statement. I will be transfering my video of the Dangerous Rehearsal over to DVD, and I'll watch it again to see if Michael had planned to lip-sync on the Dangerous Tour. I'll try and get hold of a tape recorder to listen to cassettes I have of various Dangerous concerts from 1992 as I still see some of what you say debateable. Also when replying to a debate, I don't appreciate sarcastic LOL's as I don't respect people who are sarcastic or arrogant in there responses. I don't mind having things pointed out if I'm wrong on a fact, because it adds to my knowledge.

I know my stuff, and I have a I have a huge archive bootleg videos, DVD's, and audio recording ie cassettes, cds and vinyls that I've been collecting for over 20yrs. I don't mind saying my knowlewdge of the Dangerous Tour is a bit rusty, as it's not a favorite era of mine and I very rarely watch or listen to the Dangerous concerts I have. But now I'm thinking about it, I'll be transfering MTV's Dangerous Tour Diaries I recorded on video in 1992 over to DVD as that was a cool programme. And I'll have a look at the other Dangerous era live stuff I have.

Respect should be given when replying to a members post (epecially when they have made no personal comments, or sweeping statements etc), it's not something that's given when you feel credit is due.

Don't accuse me of spreading false info on YouTube, and all this crap about there being a difference in having an opinon and fact etc, there was no need so be so f*cking aggressive when I have said I was wrong about the audio for the rehearsal on Stranger In Moscow on here and on YouTube, because I could have completely ingnored it. That's obviously not good enough for you.

Your view that Michael may have used an unused vocal cut from YRMW studio recording is possible. But why do you need to watch it again, when accroding to you I don't know anything about Michael Jackson live.

I would suggest you stop telling me I don't know anything or have little knowledge of Michael Jackson live, and we stop this heated debate and start are more friendly one.

Why you going all defensive, I didn't put anything personal that was not already obvious, I said you don't know too much, the keywords being "too much" especially on DWT which you just admitted above, so if you want to comment on something you are "rusty" on maybe its wise to listen to dangerous tour before commenting, not after. All the info and videos are available on youtube and info on numerous sites including this one :)

I don't go out my way to attack people, you seem to be suggesting something along those lines, in fact I do like to put people right when they are wrong, its only for the benefits of other fans though, like I said I have proven so much stuff in the pass that was wrong information.

And I do respect members, I have uploaded alot of rare videos, audio and made some great mixes for the community to enjoy and I give respect when its due, you seem to trip over your words, when I say I give respect when its due, that means when its due, which is usually all the time to other members, but you mention I had no respect, why is that? Because I opposed wrong info you were posting? thats bitter, I never said anything personal about you, I don't know you, but it was obvious you didn't have a clue about some of this topic, saying 3 or 4 songs were lip-synced on DWT when it was 9, saying Black or White was live, when that was only a couple of shows, Saying SC was live when he never sung it live, Saying SIM was from a concert, when it was a rehearsal, can you see what I am saying, And you talk about sweeping statements, when you are posting clearly false statements, double standards?

And about replying on youtube, you clearly made a statement saying it was NOT from a rehearsal, and then you say you didn't spread false info? without even investigating nothing you said it was from a concert, no ifs or buts or maybe it is, you said it WAS, as if you knew

And again about me saying LOL, come on people say it all time, its embedded in the internet language! Turn back a page Michaelsson even said it referring to your comment, he have no respect either? Of course he does, he was just using his knowledge to correct you, thats all

benscarr

16-05-2009, 09:57 AM

Why you going all defensive, I didn't put anything personal that was not already obvious, I said you don't know too much, the keywords being "too much" especially on DWT which you just admitted above, so if you want to comment on something you are "rusty" on maybe its wise to listen to dangerous tour before commenting, not after. All the info and videos are available on youtube and info on numerous sites including this one :)

I don't go out my way to attack people, you seem to be suggesting something along those lines, in fact I do like to put people right when they are wrong, its only for the benefits of other fans though, like I said I have proven so much stuff in the pass that was wrong information.

And I do respect members, I have uploaded alot of rare videos, audio and made some great mixes for the community to enjoy and I give respect when its due, you seem to trip over your words, when I say I give respect when its due, that means when its due, which is usually all the time to other members, but you mention I had no respect, why is that? Because I opposed wrong info you were posting? thats bitter, I never said anything personal about you, I don't know you, but it was obvious you didn't have a clue about some of this topic, saying 3 or 4 songs were lip-synced on DWT when it was 9, saying Black or White was live, when that was only a couple of shows, Saying SC was live when he never sung it live, Saying SIM was from a concert, when it was a rehearsal, can you see what I am saying, And you talk about sweeping statements, when you are posting clearly false statements, double standards?

And about replying on youtube, you clearly made a statement saying it was NOT from a rehearsal, and then you say you didn't spread false info? without even investigating nothing you said it was from a concert, no ifs or buts or maybe it is, you said it WAS, as if you knew

And again about me saying LOL, come on people say it all time, its embedded in the internet language! Turn back a page Michaelsson even said it referring to your comment, he have no respect either? Of course he does, he was just using his knowledge to correct you, thats all

I said I got my opinion of the rehearsals was wrong, and once again that obviously wasn't good enough for you. Your replys are vindictive and aggressive, and you have gone way over the top by accusing me of spreading false information on YouTube. You have gone out of your way to attack me, your attiude is one of a bully and you are not following to rules of this site of being respectful to members.

Michaelsson stuck to the topic of the rehearsal of Stranger In Moscow didn't go any further and you have gone over the top and you are being very personal for no reason other than the fact I don't feel the audio was authentic at first. I can admit when I'm wrong, and you can't and your wrong in the manner you have attcaked me on this thread.

Birchey

16-05-2009, 10:23 AM

I said I got my opinion of the rehearsals was wrong, and once again that obviously wasn't good enough for you. Your replys are vindictive and aggressive, and you have gone way over the top by accusing me of spreading false information on YouTube. Also Michaelsson stuck to the topic of the rehearsal of Stranger In Moscow didn't go any further and you have gone over the top.

Thats you're opinion, at the end of the day everything I posted could be backed up, I do research, You posted alot of info as being fact when its nothing but fiction. You said I went over the top but it wasn't me who started swearing,I suggest you know what you are talking about before you post stuff you aint got a clue about,I don't go into topics and post wrong info, like you clearly have, you accepted you were wrong, thats cool but don't be bitter and start accusing me of being aggressive, I work on facts, simple and blunt,I came into this thread to post some correct info for the fans, not to have you playing victim and saying how harsh I am, I am not like that.

benscarr

16-05-2009, 10:28 AM

Thats you're opinion, at the end of the day everything I posted could be backed up, I do research, You posted alot of info as being fact when its nothing but fiction. You said I went over the top but it wasn't me who started swearing,I suggest you know what you are talking about before you post stuff you aint got a clue about,I don't go into topics and post wrong info, like you clearly have, you accepted you were wrong, thats cool but don't be bitter and start accusing me of being aggressive, I work on facts, simple and blunt,I came into this thread to post some correct info for the fans, not to have you playing victim and saying how harsh I am, I am not like that.

I'm not playing the victim, and you are the one who is bitter. You are the one who accuses me of spreading false information etc. Yes I started swearing, but you shouldn't have made vindicted replys to me full with arrogant and sweeping statements.

You are aggressive and you have gone over the top. You seem to want to make me feel guilty, well I don't feel guility at all. I got a fact wrong, no big deal to me to admit I was wrong because there is no shame in it. You are way out of line in your responses, sweeping statement of my knowlegde of Michael Jackson live and for accusing me of "spreading" false info on YouTube. If I was spreading false info I would have done more than have written down my opinion about a piece of audio.

Birchey

16-05-2009, 10:36 AM

You are aggressive and you have gone over the top. You seem to want to make me feel guilty, well I don't feel guility at all. I got a fact wrong, no big deal to me to admit I was wrong. But you are way out of line in your responses, sweeping statement of my knowlegde of Michael Jackson live and for accusing me of "spreading" false info on YouTube. If I was spreading false info I would have done more than have written down my opinion.

Me trying to make you feel guilty,I am only saying stop acting victim, you want an apology or summat? I am just a bit miffed at how you could write stuff without any knowledge of it? this is going way off topic,I have my opinions, you have yours, This thread is for talk and facts on DWT of which I have added some facts, you have added yours.I just don't see the points in your responses, whatare you trying to acheive? what exactly?

On topic, does anyone know Michael later added TWYMMF and Bad back into the Dangerous Tour setlist?

benscarr

16-05-2009, 10:40 AM

Me trying to make you feel guilty,I am only saying stop acting victim, you want an apology or summat? I am just a bit miffed at how you could write stuff without any knowledge of it? this is going way off topic,I have my opinions, you have yours, This thread is for talk and facts on DWT of which I have added some facts, you have added yours.I just don't see the points in your responses, whatare you trying to acheive? what exactly?

On topic, does anyone know Michael later added TWYMMF and Bad back into the Dangerous Tour setlist?

What I'm I trying to achieve, that's something I wonder about you with your aggressive and vindictive posts. I think we are could get this tread locked, not something that I want to happen but your started it going downhill by being agressive and not accepting I was wrong by being friendly and moving on, but by being arrogant.

I asked for us to have a more friendly debate about this and it's obviously wasn't what you wanted, so it's hypocritical to ask me what I want to achieve. You are the one who started the aggressive posts, getting personal and making sweeping statements about my knowledge and going over the top by accusing me of spreading false information. To receive such an aggressive reponse from you, I would have to have gone to great lenghths to saying the Stranger In Moscow audio was a fake, or say you your a racist (and I'm 100% sure you are not a racist) to get such responses from you.

Oh you have your opinions and I have mine, well you should have said that and politely accepted I got my fact wrong much earlier.

And in response you your question about if TWYMMF and Bad back into the Dangerous Tour setlist? They weren't, but Dangerous was added to the last few concerts on the 1993 leg of the tour. And I have heard Beat It was dropped from a few concerts, but I'm not sure if that's true or not.

I would like to stop these arguing, but for that you have to admit you went over the top by saying I spread false information on YouTube, and admit you have made a sweeping statement about my knowlege of Michael Jackson live. Because I have admited I was wrong about the Stranger In Moscow audio, and that my knowledge of the Dangerous Tour is rusty (but that doesn't mean I don't know anything about the tour). But I doubt you will admit to anything.

Birchey

16-05-2009, 10:43 AM

What are we going to achieve, I think getting this tread locked.

Oh you have your opinions and I have mine, well you should have said that and politely accepted I got my fact wrong much earlier. Because the process have already started.

Yes a good clean-up of this thread might be due, yes sir, next time when replying to someone I will remember my please and thank you's! I wont swear in threads either...................like you did..............double standards. I am sorry but this is ridiculas, utterly pathetic!

benscarr

16-05-2009, 11:07 AM

Yes a good clean-up of this thread might be due, yes sir, next time when replying to someone I will remember my please and thank you's! I wont swear in threads either...................like you did..............double standards. I am sorry but this is ridiculas, utterly pathetic!

I don't need you to say please and thankyou's. You should just stick to the actual topic, and not be so aggressive in your responses especially when I have admited I got a fact wrong, and but that still wasn't good enough was it. Don't worry this tread will be cleared up. Double standards, well your the one who started it not me and your the one who doesn't follow the rules of this site.

Birchey

16-05-2009, 11:35 AM

I don't need you to say please and thankyou's. You should just stick to the actual topic, and not be so aggressive in your responses especially when I have admited I got a fact wrong, and but that still wasn't good enough was it. Don't worry this tread will be cleared up. Double standards, well your the one who started it not me and your the one who doesn't follow the rules of this site.

I started it, when you cleary quoted my first long statement saying this

"FACT! There is no proven fact that both the Dangerous and History Tours were planned to be lip-synced in parts, if you mean that the public and fans were supposed to know it was a lip-synced tour. The Dangerous Tour had far more live vocals than lip-synced, nearly every song was sang 100% live except about 3 or 4. And quite a number of Dangerous concerts were cancelled in 1992 during to throat problems Michael was having. If the Dangerous Tour was planned to be a lip synced tour, then Michael would never have done rehearsals and sang live on them"

Other than the throat problems which is widely known, nothing else above is fact, now if you don't want people to comment on thing you wrote that are wrong then don't write them, and as for saying I started it, is childish, this thread is for info on the dangerous tour, I added some, you added some false info, I corrected you, you got bitter and wouldn't leave it, making me out to be some kind of disrepectful monster which I am not, I do alot for MJ fans, I uploaded rare audio, video and have a great youtube channel www.youtube.com/birchey3000 read some of the comments on my vids. I don't see how all this is so important to you, I mean I only stated the obvious, if you are unsure about something don't post it as fact

But back on topic again! I don't think Michael really had on-going throat problems on dangerous tour, not until the end, I certainly dont think he would have added more songs to the setlist in late 1992 if he did, I think exhaustion may have hit him more, but 93 he definately suffered, thats when he stripped 2 live songs and replaced them with dangerous (you could could it as being 4 shows as he took TWYMMF and Bad back out the setlist in late december 1992)

I hope he sings live for the o2 concerts but I think it would be a push, but alot of the music, sounds and arrangements could be produced around his lower, grittier vocacls, but thats only really going on 30th Anniversary concert, which I don't think Michael was much into

Birchey

16-05-2009, 11:42 AM

And in response you your question about if TWYMMF and Bad back into the Dangerous Tour setlist? They weren't, but Dangerous was added to the last few concerts on the 1993 leg of the tour. And I have heard Beat It was dropped from a few concerts, but I'm not sure if that's true or not.

He added TWYMMF and Bad back into a few tokyo shows after public demand, he did drop Beat it yes and also Working Day and Night and replaced them with Dangerous, he also never performed the J5 Medley at Sao Paulo (I think it was Sao Paulo) that was the shortest DWT Concert of all it was 4 songs shorter than the opening show in Munich, I think he did well to cancel when he did even though the show was to head over the Australia and maybe into the early part of 1994

benscarr

16-05-2009, 12:57 PM

He added TWYMMF and Bad back into a few tokyo shows after public demand, he did drop Beat it yes and also Working Day and Night and replaced them with Dangerous, he also never performed the J5 Medley at Sao Paulo (I think it was Sao Paulo) that was the shortest DWT Concert of all it was 4 songs shorter than the opening show in Munich, I think he did well to cancel when he did even though the show was to head over the Australia and maybe into the early part of 1994

That's interesting, good info. I'd like to see some of the Japan Dangerous concerts in full, as I have some footage and Michael's arrival at the airport on video. I would like Michael to completely drop the J5 Medley, or re-arrange it and add some Jacksons songs to it.

With the opening Munich concerts, I have a video I recorded a DEF II Special (late 1980's early 1990's music programme) on BBC Two. Michael sings Black Or White live on that specific broadcast, his vocals on it aren't great (which I presume had to do with the troat problem that Michael had on the tour), and I think that performance is from the opening concert of the tour. Did when did start lip-syncing the song. I have to get a tape recorder so I can listen to a Wembley concert I have on audio of black or white.

One some performances of Human Nature on the tour, Michael barely sang Human Nature and appeared to mumble barely audiable vocals (these are somethings I have to watch and listen to again). I think Michael's vocal performances on the Bruni concerts in 1996 were much better, epecially the vocals on Wanna Be Startin Somethin, and on both the vocals and the robot dance on Human Nature.

Birchey

16-05-2009, 01:12 PM

That's interesting, good info. I'd like to see some of the Japan Dangerous concerts in full, as I have some footage and Michael's arrival at the airport on video. I would like Michael to completely drop the J5 Medley, or re-arrange it and add some Jacksons songs to it.

Someone I know has one of the concerts on audio cassette, they are suppose to be sending it to me to transfer, It would be interesting to hear, as usually the Japanese concerts are quite different from the rest, don't know why? The tracks on bad tour were slowed down, also they added a "godzilla" sound to WBSS in Japan 88 which I don't think anyone has noticed but me, I am sad like that. Also in Japan 92 & 96 Michael wore "messy" hair, not like the other shows, and in Japan of course we got different outfits, well I know he wore at least one different jacket

Listen at 0:41 & 0:45 for the "godzilla" SFX, they may have sampled it on the synth

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benscarr

16-05-2009, 01:25 PM

the Japanese concerts are quite different from the rest, don't know why?

I've heard their critics aren't as harsh as the rest of the world. At least in the 1980's and 1990's many major artists would start their tours their as a kind of practice/experiment run. I think Michael did this with the Bad Tour in 1987, which was basically a solo Victory Tour with I Just Can't Stop Loving and Bad add, before he started the USA and rest of the world tour in early 1988 with more songs from Bad and only Heartbreak Hotel from The Jacksons.

The Wanna Be Startin Somethin "Godzilla" sounds like a synth to me, in what Quincy Jones would discribe as white noise, as in a kind if hidden not/arrangment like how Michael's music is composed where it sounds simple, but underneth there is a lot more arrangment that their appears to be.

In response to Michael singing live at the O2, I think the credibility of his concerts depend on it. I know the lip-syncing wasn't greatly acknowledged by the media (except for News Round on BBC One)on the HIStory Tour and that suprised me, but I think they wouldn't ignore it this time. I'm not worried about Michael's energy level just his live vocals, which were stunning in the from the first Jackson 5 tour in 1970 to the Bad Tour. I'm still not sure if the troat problems have effected Michael's use of them on tour or not. And no questions have been submitted to MJJ Productions or AEG about Michael's vocal ability while performing and dancing.

Birchey

16-05-2009, 01:26 PM

With the opening Munich concerts, I have a video I recorded a DEF II Special (late 1980's early 1990's music programme) on BBC Two. Michael sings Black Or White live on that specific broadcast, his vocals on it aren't great (which I presume had to do with the troat problem that Michael had on the tour), and I think that performance is from the opening concert of the tour. Did when did start lip-syncing the song. I have to get a tape recorder so I can listen to a Wembley concert I have on audio of black or white.

One some performances of Human Nature on the tour, Michael barely sang Human Nature and appeared to mumble barely audiable vocals (these are somethings I have to watch and listen to again). I think Michael's vocal performances on the Bruni concerts in 1996 were much better, epecially the vocals on Wanna Be Startin Somethin, and on both the vocals and the robot dance on Human Nature.

The black or white performances baffle me lol, well if you listen on Munich the playback vocals don't come in where they are supposed to, I think it forced MJ to sing it live, then they gradually bring in the playback, he sings it live on Cologne, a couple of shows later :S There is a video of him performing it from wembley supposedly the 30th July 1992, but on he amateur audio it is lip-synced, but that was one of the "Edited" videos, Michael likes to broadcast, so I think the vocal track was added, maybe from Munich not sure. I actually have the official Sony EPK Promo VHS the BBC used for the DEFII Special, its got all the clips from the special uncut and then a black screen for a few seconds, I might upload when i can transfer.

I think after Early Bad Tour Human nature should have been dropped, or not placed near WBSS one of the most energetic tiring songs on the set-list, but the dancing is nice :)

Momma Shannon

16-05-2009, 01:41 PM

I'll have to clean this a bit later but remember respect one another and their opinions and if you have issues get it off the forum - go to pm or get over it.

Play nice warning issued.

simon89

16-05-2009, 09:56 PM

What a fantastic discussion between you two haha

benscarr

16-05-2009, 10:32 PM

What a fantastic discussion between you two haha

You might have to pay a subscription fee next time, but I'm glad you enjoyed it.

startinsomethin87

16-05-2009, 10:41 PM

Hey, I noticed the "Godzilla" sound too! You can hear it on the LA concert in '89 as well! haha sorry, I know that's a "Bad Tour Discussion" topic.

Birchey

17-05-2009, 01:20 PM

Hey, I noticed the "Godzilla" sound too! You can hear it on the LA concert in '89 as well! haha sorry, I know that's a "Bad Tour Discussion" topic.

Yes seems they kept the extra sounds in, I like them, they pop up randomly which is nice

startinsomethin87

17-05-2009, 05:00 PM

OK here's a different question: what was the name of the woman who replaced Jennifer Batten on guitar for the '93 shows? I know Greg Phillinganes left, Brad Buxer replaced him as Musical Director and Isaiah Sanders joined keyboards, but who took over for Jennifer?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c147/ey5287/dan.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c147/ey5287/dan2.jpg

K.O.S.

23-05-2009, 12:26 AM

Cool post !!!

I'd like to point out to a lot of fans, that one of the reasons Michael didn't song 100% live on the Dangerous Tour was that he was very ill whilst on that tour in 1992. A number of concerts were canceled, and one was canceled at Wembley Stadium just 1hr before Michael was due on stage. Michael even collapsed on stage at Wembley Stadium at the end one concert after performing Man In The Mirror. So at least for the Dangerous Tour their is a good reason for Michael lip-syncing, but I'm not so sure about his reasons for lip-syncing on the History Tour.

I would love it if Michael released another concert from the Dangerous Tour on DVD, because I can't watch BBC1 version (which is much better than the badly edited and contrived HBO version) or the HBO, Live: In Bucharest concerts as there not good concerts and apart from Michael's stunning performance of Working Day And Night, Michael has zero energy on that concert.

Michael collapsed on ALL MITM performances on the Dangerous Tour. It was rehearsed and was ment to be included. It is a James Brown gimmick that Michael adopted to his performance. Where he appears to pass out, but he gets help getting up again and continues singing.

K.O.S.

23-05-2009, 12:39 AM

Where exactly are these videos? Show me one?

And you say HIStory tour was lip-synced every night because he didn't want to go through what he went through on Dangerous Tour..............Dangerous tour which was also heavily lip synced ha ha

FACT! Michael lip-synced because he could, not due to no illness, its proven in the fact both tours were planned to be lip-synced in parts. here is another great proving point

Why did michael lip-sync all songs apart from J5 Medley & WBSS on HIStory tour...........Because they were the only 2 songs he couldn't get away with, WBSS would have been too slow, the vocals are not power full and it would have been blatantly lip-synced, J5 Medley, well a 10 year old MJ voice would be weird lol

And bad tour was re-arranged to include some lip-syncing, Michael does this because he can, not because of an illness

Also why does he lip-sync on one off shows? BECAUSE HE CAN

All Earth song performances, Dangerous performances, Elizabeth I Love You and so on, He does this because the songs are not rehearsed to be done live

Why do you say Dangerous Tour was heavily lip synced?

Here are the songs he lip synced on all tours, so we can put this discussion behind us.

Bad Tour: The Way You Make Me Feel, Smooth Criminal, Bad(second leg) and most of Man In The Mirror.

Dangerous Tour: Jam, Smooth Criminal, Thriller, Will You Be There(except final part of the song), Black Or White, Heal The World and most of Man In The Mirror

History Tour: Scream, They Don't Care About Us, In The Closet, Stranger In Moscow, Smooth Criminal, You Are Not Alone, The Way You Make Me Feel, Off The Wall Medley, Billie Jean, Thriller, Beat It, Come Together/D.S, Dangerous, Black Or White, Blood On The Dance Floor, Earth Song, Heal The World and History.

K.O.S.

23-05-2009, 12:46 AM

You could be right, but I'm still not convinced. Where was the rehearsal, and why were a few fans invited.

Where don't know the reasons why Michael choose to lip-sync the majority of the songs on the History Tour. Maybe is like you said "Because he can", and maybe the after years of touring from the 1960's to the Bad Tour which was gruling took it's tool on the Bad Tour which obviously had an effect on the Dangerous Tour, and Michael may have been advised not to sing live again or for some years on long tours. It could be that Michael can't be bothered to sing live and was just lazy. Basically we don't know the full facts, just our own speculation.

You said Michael sang Wanna Be Startin Somethin, J5 Medley live and HIStory (HIStory was lip-synced) because he wouldn't be able to get away with lip-syncing them. Well Michael could get away with lip-syncing them (even though he sag WBSS and the J5 Medley live), because he could re-recorded live vocal versions of them and use them as playback to lip-sync as Michael did with You Rock My World on the MSG 30th Anniversary concerts in 2005. Michael's also sang the J5 medley many times as an adult, and could use audio recordings of rehearsals from previous tours etc and digitally extract ay background noise. As for not lip-syncing Wanna Be Startin Somethin on the History Tour, wouldn't be because in your view the vocals would be too slow, it would be because the song contains a number of sound effects such as wispers etc.

FACT! There is no proven fact that both the Dangerous and History Tours were planned to be lip-synced in parts, if you mean that the public and fans were supposed to know it was a lip-synced tour. The Dangerous Tour had far more live vocals than lip-synced, nearly every song was sang 100% live except about 3 or 4. And quite a number of Dangerous concerts were cancelled in 1992 during to throat problems Michael was having. If the Dangerous Tour was planned to be a lip synced tour, then Michael would never have done rehearsals and sang live on them <object height="344" width="425">

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The History Tour may or may not have ended up being tour planned to be lip synced tour, but it's not a proven fact that it was planned from the start. Fans attending Michael's History Tour were supposed to have though he was singing live, and it's obvious it wasn't. Also you say Michael wouldn't get away with lip-syncing certain songs like WBSS, when the fact is Michael doesn't get away with lip-syncing any songs on tour because he's the worst as lip-syncing as he's a naturally good at singing live on tour.

Another thing about the History Tour is that Michael lip-synced songs like You Are Not Alone and a few others and sang the end parts of the songs live. On Beat It Michael lip-synced the first half of the song until the guitar part, then on the last part of the song with the dancing Michael would sing live. And that is before the extended brake down on Beat It.

But doesn't sound like a rehearsal ?, it sounds like an actual concert that's been passed off as a rehearsal because if the screaming fans, which you don't get at rehearsals.

The rehearsal is in Prague. There also exist video of some of that rehearsal. The stage area was closed and you could not see anything, just hear Michael rehearse. But the audio of Beat It is from Bad Tour Yokohama. Don't know why that is though.

benscarr

23-05-2009, 08:49 AM

Michael collapsed on ALL MITM performances on the Dangerous Tour. It was rehearsed and was ment to be included. It is a James Brown gimmick that Michael adopted to his performance. Where he appears to pass out, but he gets help getting up again and continues singing.

I know that, but Michael did actually collapse on one of the Dangerous concerts performing Man In The Mirror. I was at that actual concert and at the time I did not believe Michael collapsed for the reason you have stated. But listening back to an audio I have of that concert, the end part of the extended Man In The Mirror, Michael appears to have trouble get his vocals going and at least sounds as though he's ran out of energy and can't get up. And that is different from the other audios and videos I have.

I'm not sure what date it was, but at one of the Wembley Stadium concerts one of the concerts was cancelled at the last minute, whilst all the fans were in the stadium due to Michael have major throat problems/ being ill on that tour. I presume fans who had turned up for that specfic concert would have been more p*ssed off that those who've had the dates of the opening O2 concerts rescheduled, because some will have already used their plane and train tickets etc and where as fans attended the O2 rescheduled concerts who have a right to be angry, at least have the time to get a refund on plane, train and hotel tickets even though they should never have been put in that position.

The rehearsal is in Prague. There also exist video of some of that rehearsal.

This has alread been discussed, argued and and resolved on previous pages on this thread.

michaelsson

23-05-2009, 09:18 PM

benscarr u rock! lol. whew u guys kill me lol

Birchey

25-05-2009, 12:40 PM

Why do you say Dangerous Tour was heavily lip synced?

Here are the songs he lip synced on all tours, so we can put this discussion behind us.

Bad Tour: The Way You Make Me Feel, Smooth Criminal, Bad(second leg) and most of Man In The Mirror.

Dangerous Tour: Jam, Smooth Criminal, Thriller, Will You Be There(except final part of the song), Black Or White, Heal The World and most of Man In The Mirror

History Tour: Scream, They Don't Care About Us, In The Closet, Stranger In Moscow, Smooth Criminal, You Are Not Alone, The Way You Make Me Feel, Off The Wall Medley, Billie Jean, Thriller, Beat It, Come Together/D.S, Dangerous, Black Or White, Blood On The Dance Floor, Earth Song, Heal The World and History.

I said it was heavily lip-synced because in my own opinion if you lip-sync almost half the show that is considered as a substantial amount of lip syncing, add in Bad and TWYMMF from the opening shows and later the tokyo shows that pretty much is a 50/50 live/lipsync.
Then the 93 shows its over half the concert and the Sao Paulo show he didn't do J5 Medley so its even more.

And its also not as clean cut on the lip-sync list, its annoying because Michael performs some songs live on some shows, or at least more parts, it seems mainly when the playback fails though, or when Michael is in a good mood

Birchey

25-05-2009, 12:42 PM

And that is different from the other audios and videos I have.

Ben what videos/concert you have, any amateur audio? thats not uploaded or more HQ versions?

K.O.S.

25-05-2009, 12:44 PM

I said it was heavily lip-synced because in my own opinion if you lip-sync almost half the show that is considered as a substantial amount of lip syncing, add in Bad and TWYMMF from the opening shows and later the tokyo shows that pretty much is a 50/50 live/lipsync.
Then the 93 shows its over half the concert and the Sao Paulo show he didn't do J5 Medley so its even more.

And its also not as clean cut on the lip-sync list, its annoying because Michael performs some songs live on some shows, or at least more parts, it seems mainly when the playback fails though, or when Michael is in a good mood

Well again you are mistaken. He did not lip sync half the show.

Birchey

25-05-2009, 12:51 PM

Well again you are mistaken. He did not lip sync half the show.

Example from Tokyo 92

Live

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
Human Nature
I Just Can't Stop Loving You (duet with Siedah Garrett)
She's out of My Life
Jackson 5 Medley: I Want You Back / The Love You Save
Jackson 5 Medley: I'll Be There
Billie Jean
Workin' Day and Night
Beat It

Total - 9 (10 if you count I Want You Back & The Love You Save Seperate)

Lip-Sync

Jam
Smooth Criminal
Thriller
Black or White
Will You Be There
The Way You Make Me Feel
Bad
Black or White
Heal the World
Man in the Mirror

Total- 10

Point Proven!

TheDangerousFan

25-05-2009, 04:19 PM

Well again you are mistaken. He did not lip sync half the show.

Ohh god he lipsyched even more.Did you hear how bad was his voice in wbss performances.He hardly can breath.The best wbss vocals ware in bangkok 93
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benscarr

26-05-2009, 09:40 AM

Ben what videos/concert you have, any amateur audio? thats not uploaded or more HQ versions?

I'll have a look within the next few days. I have both the BBC and the contrived and edited HBO version of the Bucharest concert from 1992, and one full amateur video (need to transfer to DVD) of a Dangerous concert (can't remember the location of the concert as I haven't watched it for over 10yrs). And audio cassettes (I need to digitaly transfer) of the BBC Radio 1 live transmission of the Bucharest concert, and a live audio of a Wembley Stadium concert I attended. One some of the concerts Michael didn't use the Carl Orff song Carmina Burana, and another classical song was used instead during the opening video montage.

I also some various televison specials and news footage of the Dangerous concerts that I recorded myself or have bought over the years. Most of the footage I haven't watched since the mid 1990's. I recently transfered MTV's Dangerous Tour Diaries on to DVD, and I'm not really too impressed with programme and thought it was excellent when I watched it on transmission in 1992. I also transfered Michael's MTV 10th Anniversary performance of Black Or White and Will You Be There from 1991 on to DVD, and that is excellent. I think that is Michael's best performance of Black Or White (even though it's obviously lip-synced), with different musical arrangement that Michael should use in concert.

Ohh god he lipsyched even more.Did you hear how bad was his voice in wbss performances.He hardly can breath.The best wbss vocals ware in bangkok 93

Wow, excellent vocals and not something I'd expect for 1993 for various reasons.

Birchey

26-05-2009, 12:19 PM

I'll have a look within the next few days. I have both the BBC and the contrived and edited HBO version of the Bucharest concert from 1992, and one full amateur video (need to transfer to DVD) of a Dangerous concert (can't remember the location of the concert as I haven't watched it for over 10yrs). And audio cassettes (I need to digitaly transfer) of the BBC Radio 1 live transmission of the Bucharest concert, and a live audio of a Wembley Stadium concert I attended. One some of the concerts Michael didn't use the Carl Orff song Carmina Burana, and another classical song was used instead during the opening video montage.

Interesting :)

I have some recordings from Wembely 1992, one very HQ and another (Maybe same recording) in the post coming to me.

Which concert did you attend?

benscarr

26-05-2009, 05:42 PM

Interesting :)

I have some recordings from Wembely 1992, one very HQ and another (Maybe same recording) in the post coming to me.

Which concert did you attend?

I attended 2 concerts. The first one on 31st July 1992 (I have an audio recording of this date, but I need to check the date of the cassette as I haven't listened for about 4yrs or so), and then on 23rd August 1992. The one I went to on 23rd August was a rescheduled concert, as it's original date was cancelled last minute with fans already in the stadium. I wasn't at the original date, and bought the ticket when some went on official resale. Tickets for that tour were £22.50 (my Bad concert tickets were £17.50 each).

I heard that the jack in the box jumping pad Michael jumped up on to the stage to, didn't work on one of the Wembley Stadium Dangerous concerts, and that instead Michael ran from the side of the stage in to the center and then the explosions would go off.

K.O.S.

26-05-2009, 06:10 PM

Example from Tokyo 92

Live

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
Human Nature
I Just Can't Stop Loving You (duet with Siedah Garrett)
She's out of My Life
Jackson 5 Medley: I Want You Back / The Love You Save
Jackson 5 Medley: I'll Be There
Billie Jean
Workin' Day and Night
Beat It

Total - 9 (10 if you count I Want You Back & The Love You Save Seperate)

Lip-Sync

Jam
Smooth Criminal
Thriller
Black or White
Will You Be There
The Way You Make Me Feel
Bad
Black or White
Heal the World
Man in the Mirror

Total- 10

Point Proven!

Michael did not perform Bad and The Way You Make Me Feel in Tokyo. He performed those two songs in the three first shows of the tour, and then never performed them again for the rest of the tour.

Also, Michael lip synced only half of Will You Be There and Man In The Mirror

Point NOT proven

Birchey

26-05-2009, 08:57 PM

Michael did not perform Bad and The Way You Make Me Feel in Tokyo. He performed those two songs in the three first shows of the tour, and then never performed them again for the rest of the tour.

Its not common knowledge that these songs were re-introduced, but I know they were and so do a few other people. This is 100% FACT, no point in saying its not true

Also, Michael lip synced only half of Will You Be There and Man In The Mirror

Point NOT proven

So michael did the outro speaking part of Will You Be There and did some adlibs at the end of man in the mirror, are we counting how many seconds he sung live or lip-synced?

He only did both the above mentioned because he could not mime them, so you are now saying that those 2 songs are not lip-synced? They fall into the category of being lip-synced because the bulk important parts of the song, the main lyrics are mimed?

Does this mean Beat It wasn't mimed on HIStory tour, because he sang some ab-libs?

Also again with my point the late 93 shows were over half lip-synced, and Sao Paulo concert only had a few live songs left

WonderingWho

26-07-2009, 03:08 AM

Does anyone have a full and correct listing of the band for the "2nd leg" of Dangerous tour? Greg and Jennifer I know didn't play this leg, and i suspect david also dropped out after superbowl.

MJ1814

26-07-2009, 02:46 PM

MJDion

28-07-2009, 05:40 PM

Well I just watched this tour (my first Mike tour) on dvd last week and I was rather bored at some parts. :( The best performances were Thriller and WDAN. Besides that nothing really stood out to me. It was the same pop-lock routines that he's been doing for a while, which I guess you can't him for it cuz it's his signature. Him being alone on stage sometimes was probably what was draining the most. IDK maybe it's an acquired taste so I'll watch it again later on. But for the most part, it was just okay.

I know what you mean actually. A lot of his dance moves are the same ones he's always been doing, snapping his finger and twisting his foot, which he's very good at, don't get me wrong, but the dancing that impressed me the most was the Thriller routine and the Smooth Criminal number. I think he's fantastic at choreographed routines, and those are my personal favorite. I was impressed at the songs he sung live because previously I only saw the History Tour, and everything is pretty much lip synched. I don't know how he danced like he did and sang live during the Dangerous Tour like he did.

A. Sizzle

28-07-2009, 07:27 PM

I've yet to download any Dangerous tour DVDs. Anyone have any suggestions on which is the best?

wojciszek

28-07-2009, 08:16 PM

The rehearsal is in Prague. There also exist video of some of that rehearsal. The stage area was closed and you could not see anything, just hear Michael rehearse. But the audio of Beat It is from Bad Tour Yokohama. Don't know why that is though.

hmm i don't get it when did he use vocals from Yokohama?

Example from Tokyo 92

Live

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
Human Nature
I Just Can't Stop Loving You (duet with Siedah Garrett)
She's out of My Life
Jackson 5 Medley: I Want You Back / The Love You Save
Jackson 5 Medley: I'll Be There
Billie Jean
Workin' Day and Night
Beat It

Total - 9 (10 if you count I Want You Back & The Love You Save Seperate)

Lip-Sync

Jam
Smooth Criminal
Thriller
Black or White
Will You Be There
The Way You Make Me Feel
Bad
Black or White
Heal the World
Man in the Mirror

Total- 10

Point Proven!

it really matters on how you count if song is lip synched ;], for me MitM = 50% lip sync, HtW = 50% lip sync, Bad = 66% lip sync, too bad he had to lip synch some songs in DWT and many in History, (because his voice is great live) but we all know he could sing ( even if some ppl think that he lost his ability to sing in History World Tour he hadn't, watch royal Brunei 1996 )

MJ1814

29-07-2009, 02:41 AM

I know what you mean actually. A lot of his dance moves are the same ones he's always been doing, snapping his finger and twisting his foot, which he's very good at, don't get me wrong, but the dancing that impressed me the most was the Thriller routine and the Smooth Criminal number. I think he's fantastic at choreographed routines, and those are my personal favorite. I was impressed at the songs he sung live because previously I only saw the History Tour, and everything is pretty much lip synched. I don't know how he danced like he did and sang live during the Dangerous Tour like he did.

The Thriller routine was probably the best because he actually brought the song to life...the visuals were good. But the other routines were rather simple...SC and BI were good as well. It just got boring when the songs weren't given a visual. Also the cinematography and camera work wasn't the best. It was only 1991 so I can't really blame them. But the tour as a whole was just okay to me.