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DuranDuran
26-08-2008, 03:13 AM
Talkbox
http://profxmachine.com/images/1153521424_HEIL_TALK_BOX_HT1_463X342.jpg
http://www.americanmusical.com/ProductImages/Large/50250.jpg
The talkbox was originally developed to add a wah-wah effect to a guitar by directing guitar talkbox sound to the mouth through a plastic tube. The mouth acts as a filter and changing the shape of the mouth results in a wah type effect.

When talkbox was first released, it was called by various names such as voice box, talking modulator, mouth tube, or a mouth wah. It is said the name “talkbox” was standardized by Roger Troutman of ZAPP, one of the key persons in funk talkbox history.

The very first talkbox to go out on market is said to be Kustom Electronics' “The Bag,” released in 1969. Its appearance is just like a water bottle in a bag, but this triggered other manufacturers such as Jim Dunlop and Electro Harmonix to start manufacturing talkboxes.

Talkboxers in Funk, R&B and Hip Hop music explored different techniques and performed on synthesizers in place of guitars so it can produce a wide variety of sounds. Stevie Wonder is said to be the first musician who performed the talkbox on the synthesizer. His performance can be viewed on You Tube. Roger Troutman took this to a further level and established his own distinct style. His performance can also be viewed on You Tube. Roger Troutman has made a powerful impact on talkboxers today.

Vocoder
http://www.vintagesynth.com/korg/vc10.jpg
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/images/oreilly/digitalmedia/2006/03/vocoder-korg-ms200b450.jpg

Invented by a Bell Labs whiz named Homer Dudley to improve telephone service in the 1940s, the vocoder broke speech patterns into components, allowing them to be re-transmitted efficiently over a narrow bandwidth.

The unsung Dudley was a pioneer in figuring out how to synthesize sounds and quickly ascertained the vocoder (or voice coder) possessed a creative potential far beyond the transmission of phone calls. In fact, the device proved to be of crucial importance World War II, scrambling transoceanic conversations between Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Winston Churchill.

In 1971, the vocoder entered the pop culture mainstream when Kubrick invited composer Wendy Carlos to score the music to his controversial adaptation of Anthony Burgess' A Clockwork Orange. Employing a vocoder to "sing" on "Timesteps," Carlos produced a classic of early electronic music.

In the years since the vocoder has leant atmospheric touches and a futuristic ambience to a bevy of songs, including Laurie Anderson ("O Superman!"), Kraftwerk ("We Are the Robots") the Beastie Boys ("Intergalactic"). The vocoder's popularity somehow seems fitting. Its trance-like effect has elements of human warmth but also a decidedly metallic tone. A product of the communications revolution, the vocoder has become a perfect fit for artists seeking a "new millennium" sound.

Sonovox

Incredibly, a precurser to the Vocoder was invented back in the mid-Thirties. The Sonovox used small speakers attached to the singer's throat that were patched through music instruments - horns, guitars, etc. The singer mouthed the words of a song, and by changing the shape of the mouth and position of the tongue, changed the sound of the instrument. It created a pretty weird robot-voice-like effect.

Musicians in the '30s and '40s didn't really know what to do with it, so it was usually used on children's records.

Difference between a Talkbox and a Vocoder

Since talkbox creates sound that is somewhat mechanic compared to a human voice, some people may confuse it as a vocoder. Vocoder's structure and sound differs completely from a talkbox. In a vocoder, human voice and synthesizer signals are respectively directed through 10 to 20 band-path filters and envelope followers to analyze the human voice and reproduce the modifying amplitude by each bandwidth frequency. Talkbox and Vocoder are similar in a sense that it both filters a synthesizer, but band-path filters are used in a vocoder where the actual mouth is used in a talkbox. Therefore, a more precise pronunciation is possible with a talkbox.

DuranDuran
26-08-2008, 03:27 AM
Sonovox
Kay Kyser ~ 1940
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Talkbox {keyboard}
Stevie Wonder ~ 1973
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Talkbox {guitar}
Joe Walsh ~ 1973 (start about 3:12)
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Vocoder
Midnight Star ~ 1983
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arXter
26-08-2008, 04:07 AM
lol in defence of the "T-Pain effect"... http://www.bbc.co.uk/606/2/refresh/images/smileys/f_doh.gif unfortunately it seems that's what all these effects will come under nowadays.

Stevie's use here goes without saying, as well as other 'pioneers' like Troutman. i also kind of like how Teddy Riley used it in the style of Chris Jasper/Quiet Storm moog lead lines (a la For The Love Of You) blending it in with the melody, as a typical bluesy lick. but he milked it too much for my taste.

my favourite use of it is in underground Dance music (specifically US and then UK Garage). cats like Todd Edwards who used to sing into the vocoder (or feed through prerecorded vocals) then intricately chop the results up and use it as a rhythm section that drives the whole song. much more creative than just 'making your voice sound weird'.

Todd Edwards - Far Away
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and some of his followers:

Groove Connection - Club Lonely (Dem 2 Dub Mix)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE-jqahClOE

Daft Punk + Todd Edwards - Face To Face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkN-AC_JiIU

Daft Punk - Digital Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxzBvqY5PP0

Daft Punk - Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cYWfq--Nw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjxf9gn-xoM (Neptunes Remix)


classic:

Zapp & Roger - So Rough, So Tough (Live)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARVWndtOk00

144,000
26-08-2008, 04:38 AM
i'm all for anything that continues to develop the sound of music and that helps keep egos in check. i think these inventions do that. i don't understand what the backlash is against artists like tpain and such..whereas no part of music is going to suffer or diminish because of this inventions. there will still be singers....but there will also be this invention.

and..besides, there's nothing illegal about making money musically using this instrument. to hear some of the complaints against it, you would think it was illegal. lol

Superstition
26-08-2008, 05:30 AM
My favorite use of the talkbox by Stevie is actually when it's less pronounced. There's a song from his most recent album, A Time To Love. It's called "Please Don't Hurt My Baby" and it's used mostly in the backing vocals so you don't notice it too much unless you're listening for it.

Of course, the master, Roger Troutman, has several tracks that I love where he really shows how to use the talkbox. "Heartbreaker" and a cover of Lionel Richie's "Easy" are really good. Traditionally, you don't talk when you are using the talkbox, but use your mouth to form the sound. On "Easy", it sounds as if he may be singing the "Aaaah, aaah, aaahs" in the chorus while simultaneously using the talkbox. Or maybe it's just layering, I'm not sure. It sounds great though.

I'm half tempted to take up piano lessons just to learn to play it.

arXter
26-08-2008, 05:40 AM
top class production from another micro-vocoding/micro-sampling disciple, Akufen:

Craig David - What's Your Flava (Akufen Remix)

<TABLE style="BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 11px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1px solid; COLOR: #000; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc 1px solid; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle><EMBED pluginspage=http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer src=http://www.esnips.com//escentral/images/widgets/flash/dj1.swf width=132 height=138 type=application/x-shockwave-flash flashvars="autoPlay=no&theFile=http://www.esnips.com//nsdoc/ec983fdf-8230-4053-8d64-693df577304f&theName=Craig David - What's Your Flava (Akufen Club Mix)&thePlayerURL=http://www.esnips.com//escentral/images/widgets/flash/mp3WidgetPlayer.swf" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" quality="high"></EMBED></TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px" vAlign=bottom align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Akufen - My Way
<EMBED src=http://media.imeem.com/m/ygRk24g_Y_/aus=false/ width=300 height=110 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED>

Akufen - Jeep Sex
<EMBED src=http://media.imeem.com/m/xpLqYUwJWS/aus=false/ width=300 height=110 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED>

this guy's to Todd Edwards what Mike is to JB.



i'm all for anything that continues to develop the sound of music and that helps keep egos in check. i think these inventions do that. i don't understand what the backlash is against artists like tpain and such..
but what T-Pain does is no invention or development - he's taking something that was used subtely as an instrument before and milked it beyond belief as his trademark singing voice - and here i was thinking that T. Riley overused it.

but with pitch-processing like Autotune, at least T-Pain is transparent about it. as for keeping egos in check, the problem is Autotune and the like have opened up a wave of successful pretty-faces-with-no-voices that are clogging up the commercial waves (see Rhianna's early live auditions). it blurs the distinction of the innate talents (worthy of their egos) from the pitch-corrected plastic counterparts whose voices aren't made any more unique with AutoTune anyway!

here's Erykah Badu & co. on why their egos should speak out on this:

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/irk3_p15RJY&hl=en&fs=1 width=212 height=172 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true"></EMBED>

(watch out for the AutoTune example)


whereas no part of music is going to suffer or diminish because of this inventions. there will still be singers....
unfortunately no where near the amount of natural and unique talents we had back in the day (~mid 90s and before).

i'm always happy to quote this from our man:


"I don't think people are being experimental and innovative enough. -- I think there's too much cookie-cutter stuff."


Michael Jackson; Ebony, Dec 2007
i'd be the first to check out any new development/innovations/gizmos in art and its technology, but i'm fascinated even more so on how we can use them creatively.

---

btw, i love your chords on that Soundclick demo. i joined up to that site a long time ago but completely forgot under what username. gonna create a new account and buzz you there if you don't mind http://www.bbc.co.uk/606/2/refresh/images/smileys/f_smiley.gif.

troubleman84
26-08-2008, 05:41 AM
The greatest talk box users were Stevie and Roger.

Teddy was OK, I guess Peter Frampton played a mean talk box too.

I guess I can give T-Pain pointers and kudos for bringing that style back.

Superstition
26-08-2008, 07:21 AM
I like Teddy Riley's work. The difference between Teddy Riley and a lot of current producers and the "in" hip-hop and contemporary R&B artists is that Riley can actually make real music with real instruments, but he utilizes the computers. So many artists today do all of their work at a computer. There's kids who lay beats down on a computer and make it big. At best, I guess some of them can use keyboards and synths to create a track.

Roger - Computer Love
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Stevie Wonder - Positivity w/ his daughter Aisha (Talkbox on backing vocals)

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arXter
26-08-2008, 12:50 PM
a couple of tracks from a Thriller-era R&B-Funk collab album between Herbie Hancock and Rod Temperton called LITE ME UP [1982].

http://i37.tinypic.com/2dugoiq.jpg

Give It All Your Heart
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Motor Mouth
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I like Teddy Riley's work. The difference between Teddy Riley and a lot of current producers and the "in" hip-hop and contemporary R&B artists is that Riley can actually make real music with real instruments, but he utilizes the computers. So many artists today do all of their work at a computer. There's kids who lay beats down on a computer and make it big. At best, I guess some of them can use keyboards and synths to create a track.
to be fair, i don't see any difference between Timbaland and Teddy Riley except that Riley grew up learning a few instruments but he never really put them to use in his work as a NJS producer, barring the required keyboard skills obviously. and i agree that there are many producers who don't even know how to the play the keyboard (save for a few bass lines) but i don't see it as something necessary if e.g. you're only a sampling Hip-Hop producer - Pete Rock, Primo never really required it at all and their work is unique and priceless.

i think if Timbo hadn't gone into the ringtone music route, he'd be more openly hailed just as influential as Teddy because of his 90s stuff. i believe he was, anyway.

DuranDuran
26-08-2008, 02:04 PM
There's a talkbox used on "Wondering Who" by The Jacksons

troubleman84
26-08-2008, 02:28 PM
It sure was. :yes:

Now I believe GREG PHILLINGANES may have used it. ;)

There's also some talkbox in Mary Wells' 1981 album, "In and Out of Love" on the songs "Let's Mix It Up" (near the end) and "I'm Not the One (You're In Love With)" (also near the end).

mistermaxxx
27-08-2008, 01:01 AM
for me Roger and Peter Frampton and Stevie rocked it tight. dug Sly and the family stone's "Don't call me N****,Whitey. sly rocked it on that track way back when.

troubleman84
27-08-2008, 06:07 AM
for me Roger and Peter Frampton and Stevie rocked it tight. dug Sly and the family stone's "Don't call me N****,Whitey. sly rocked it on that track way back when.

I loved it when Sly lay it on the talkbox. :punk:

144,000
27-08-2008, 07:31 PM
I like Teddy Riley's work. The difference between Teddy Riley and a lot of current producers and the "in" hip-hop and contemporary R&B artists is that Riley can actually make real music with real instruments, but he utilizes the computers. So many artists today do all of their work at a computer. There's kids who lay beats down on a computer and make it big. At best, I guess some of them can use keyboards and synths to create a track.

Roger - Computer Love
<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/HftQgBZ-Ou8&hl=en&fs=1 width=425 height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true"></EMBED>

Stevie Wonder - Positivity w/ his daughter Aisha (Talkbox on backing vocals)

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/SfLX3e5VRlg&hl=en&fs=1 width=425 height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true"></EMBED>

well..talent is talent, no matter how big or small it may seem to others. so, that's why i'm cool with the artists of today. cus what person a can do with a small talent, person b cannot.

i'm cool with Teddy Riley too.

arXter
27-08-2008, 08:26 PM
good pick there
although i never liked the album, even though the thought of Temperton/Hancock is "http://www.bbc.co.uk/606/2/refresh/images/smileys/f_smiley.gif" alone.

arXter
27-08-2008, 08:27 PM
jam session between ?uestlove (The Roots) and James Poyser:

The Randy Watson Experience - Selma Hyjack
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Poyser on the vocoder saying "hey dont you wanna? hey salma heyek?" :/

two of my fav people Pino Palladino on bass, and J Dilla on bells there.

DuranDuran
28-08-2008, 05:43 PM
Here's some vocoder classics:

Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five ~ Scorpio
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Kraftwerk ~ The Robots (1991 version)
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Soulsupastarr
29-08-2008, 09:24 AM
IMO, the talkbox effect gave music a more futuristic sound in the late 70's and 80's and although Stevie & Herbie used it first, IMO Roger was the pioneer of using the talkbox and he made it a standout feature of his solo music and with Zapp too. Teddy Riley is another artist today who uses the talkbox a lot in his music with BlackStreet & Guy and I read that he had his talkbox customized to sound like Roger's. Also, I think that the effect T-Pain uses on his vocals is from using the 'auto tune' instead of using a talkbox. Prince has also used a talkbox on some of his songs too like '3121'.

Here's a few videos of Roger I thought I'd add. the first is a tribute song for Kareem Abdul Jabbar's NBA career that he made along with Ray Davis (Parliament/Funkadelic) called "I'm So Happy". The second is Roger's cover of James Brown's "Papas Gotta Brand New Bag" which is from his "Unlimited!" album.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/loSSJt1TYW8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/loSSJt1TYW8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RhWzeTIiyGg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RhWzeTIiyGg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

144,000
29-08-2008, 05:08 PM
IMO, the talkbox effect gave music a more futuristic sound in the late 70's and 80's and although Stevie & Herbie used it first, IMO Roger was the pioneer of using the talkbox and he made it a standout feature of his solo music and with Zapp too. Teddy Riley is another artist today who uses the talkbox a lot in his music with BlackStreet & Guy and I read that he had his talkbox customized to sound like Roger's. Also, I think that the effect T-Pain uses on his vocals is from using the 'auto tune' instead of using a talkbox. Prince has also used a talkbox on some of his songs too like '3121'.

Here's a few videos of Roger I thought I'd add. the first is a tribute song for Kareem Abdul Jabbar's NBA career that he made along with Ray Davis (Parliament/Funkadelic) called "I'm So Happy". The second is Roger's cover of James Brown's "Papas Gotta Brand New Bag" which is from his "Unlimited!" album.

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/loSSJt1TYW8&hl=en&fs=1 width=425 height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true"></EMBED>

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/RhWzeTIiyGg&hl=en&fs=1 width=425 height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true"></EMBED>

i don't know if tpain used an autotune, cus it sounds different from what chris brown used..and chris brown def used an autotune in a song. the autotune sounds like a mechanical voice..but the talkbox sounds like an acutal special effect, and makes no bones about it not sounding like a voice, although it can mouth words in tune. and the latter is what tpain sounds like. to me, the autotune is unnecessary and irritating...chris brown already has a singing voice, and didn't seem to need it, but he used it anyway. tpain doesn't sing..so his device sounds like a special effect. i guess i prefer that sound, to the autotune.

arXter
29-08-2008, 05:23 PM
^ it's definitely pitch-processing software that is used on T-Pain's vocals (like AutoTune, Melodyne, there are dozens of them doing the very same thing). it's the same software that is used to make pitch-perfect vocals.

Soulsupastarr
31-08-2008, 09:02 AM
You can hear the auto-tune effect on R Kelly's "Hairbraider" track too.

Superstition
31-08-2008, 09:43 AM
R. Kelly is playing that out. He's even using the same phrases as T-Pain. He did it in the Same Girl Triple Up Remix too. Both T-Pain and R. Kelly were on that track.

arXter
31-08-2008, 09:45 AM
yeah many muppet are using it now; Lil Wayne, Kanye, Chris Brown, Lil Kim, Bow Wow, Lil Boosie

even Snoop's used it on his Sensual Seduction tune but he pays tribute to Roger & Zapp in the video even though it's not a talkbox lol

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qSS_DY_z-Dc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qSS_DY_z-Dc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

arXter
09-09-2008, 02:05 PM
'whisper' vocoder:


Zo! - I Can't Help It
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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/Zo-I_Cant_Help_It.mp3"><br />
<param name="quality" value="high"><br />
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sings in the chorus.
</pre>

arXter
11-09-2008, 09:37 PM
Teddy on the talkbox on my favourite show, Later With Jools Holland:

Blackstreet - Don't Leave Me (Live on Jools '97)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d8bJEWZr1Wk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d8bJEWZr1Wk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

http://www.scuba2000.com/forum/images/smilies/groovin.gif

Superstition
12-09-2008, 03:27 PM
^ Whoa.. nice find. That's a great version. A little bit of nice jazzy sax in there spice it up.

arXter
14-09-2008, 01:19 PM
^ yeah, the whole performance's much better than the album version imo. even the engineering from BBC beats that on their album. still a great album, though.


from George Clinton's new album

Ain't That Peculiar (feat. Sly Stone & El DeBarge)
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<param name="movie" value="http://www.maximum-jackson.com/discussion/audio/audio-player/player.swf">
<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/george_clinton-aint_that_peculiar.mp3">
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with Sly putting on some gruff ad-libs through both a vocoder and a talkbox.

mo_rizwan
14-09-2008, 07:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8xg4qJI8gU :)

arXter
20-09-2008, 08:00 PM
Craig David - What's Your Flava [2002]

http://i36.tinypic.com/eur76u.jpg

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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/Craig_David_-_Whats_Your_Flava.mp3">
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nice production from Garage maestro Mark Hill (of Artful Dodger).

troubleman84
22-09-2008, 03:28 AM
You can hear the auto-tune effect on R Kelly's "Hairbraider" track too.

I almost cried when Kells did it. He obviously was following what T-Pain was doing and the song wasn't even that good to me.

troubleman84
22-09-2008, 03:29 AM
Craig David - What's Your Flava [2002]

http://i36.tinypic.com/eur76u.jpg

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<param name="movie" value="http://www.maximum-jackson.com/discussion/audio/audio-player/player.swf">
<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/Craig_David_-_Whats_Your_Flava.mp3">
<param name="quality" value="high">
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nice production from Garage maestro Mark Hill (of Artful Dodger).

I LOVED THIS JOINT! :punk:

arXter
23-09-2008, 02:54 AM
these are some individual vocal tracks (some probably of Mike's b/g vox) of the vocoder work on Remember The Time. it came from an acetate that was sold out of Teddy Riley's studios.


http://www.mjcollectorland.com/rubriques/acetate/imageacetate/teddy&futurerecord.jpg
http://www.mjcollectorland.com/rubriques/acetate/imageacetate/rttrileyacetate.jpg

#6 Vocal Runs 1
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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/rtt_vox_runs1.mp3">
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#6 Vocal Runs 2
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#6 Vocal Runs 3
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#6 Vocal Runs 4
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#6 Vocal Runs 5
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<param name="movie" value="http://www.maximum-jackson.com/discussion/audio/audio-player/player.swf">
<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/rtt_vox_runs5.mp3">
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pretty cool.

Superstition
23-09-2008, 04:18 AM
Zapp & Roger - Easy

<object width="300" height="110">

<embed src="http://media.imeem.com/m/v-PKm1JSIK/aus=false/" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="300" height="110">Easy (Album Version) - Zapp & Roger (http://www.imeem.com/people/0ONNpz-/music/eMB63bBv/zapp_roger_easy_album_version/)</object>

Stevie Wonder - Please Don't Hurt My Baby

<object width="300" height="110">

<embed src="http://media.imeem.com/m/jbXr9HtUmW/aus=false/" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="300" height="110">Please Dont Hurt My Baby - Stevie Wonder (http://www.imeem.com/people/0ONNpz-/music/M3YLkHKb/stevie_wonder_please_dont_hurt_my_baby/)</object>

eighthnoterojo
23-09-2008, 04:58 AM
I guess that, like any technology, in the right hands, it can work great.

I'm not a massive fan of the effect, but it does work well in some cases. It's just that, to me, it often takes away a certain amount of the 'human' element of the voice. Those subtle things like vibrato, inflections, etc.. those are the things I enjoy hearing the most in singing. Expression.

It's very easy to overuse an effect, any effect. When the effect takes precedence over the music, then it's too much.

It really depends on the song, and how it's used...

Just my thoughts.

arXter
24-09-2008, 10:55 PM
Those subtle things like vibrato, inflections, etc.. those are the things I enjoy hearing the most in singing. Expression..
funny thing is, with Auto-Tune, two of the steps to get that vocoder/Cher effect is to zero both the vibrato and pitch-drift knobs lol spot on, girl.

eighthnoterojo
26-09-2008, 04:58 AM
Well, in Cher's Believe, I find the effects to be appropriate for the song. Effects make sense in a techno-type song. I'm not a massive fan of techno, generally, but I can certainly appreciate the techniques they used.

I went and had a listen to the song, to refresh my memory, and there are many different effects in there (talking about the voice in particular here.)

Varied filtering, echo, varying amounts of reverb,...

I find the effects nicely balanced, and even though they are obvious, they add to the song rather than detract from it in this case, imo. The Autotune is not used everywhere, and there is also plenty of vibrato, which I assume is Cher's own. lol

I haven't been up to listening to very much music these days, (you know why from my PM,) but I bet all these newer effects are used in really creative ways in contemporary art music... when I feel up to it, I'll be listening and observing again.

arXter
27-09-2008, 11:36 AM
i actually began hating Cher's song because it was so massive in the UK and everyone was going on about the "Cher effect" LOL but she did use it as an effect, as opposed a replacement for vocals as in the case of T-Pain.

anyway, another vocoder track, from a Jackson:


http://usuarios.lycos.es/graceland1977/a_randy-and-the-gypsys.jpg

Randy & The Gypsys - Love You Honey [1989]

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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/randy_-_love_you_honey.mp3">
<param name="quality" value="high">
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Superstition
27-09-2008, 09:02 PM
That is a great track..

I also have Jackie's album "Be The One" and it too was pretty good. Very good effort by Randy.

arXter
13-10-2008, 01:04 AM
having listened to Air's '98 debut album, vocoders and talk-boxes were used pretty much everywhere. here are my picks:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b1/Moonsafari.air.albumcover.jpg

New Star In The Sky
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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/air_-_new_star_in_the_sky.mp3">
<param name="quality" value="high">
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Remember
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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/air_-_remember.mp3">
<param name="quality" value="high">
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Kelly Watch The Stars
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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/air_-_kelly_watch_the_stars.mp3">
<param name="quality" value="high">
<param name="menu" value="false">
<param name="wmode" value="transparent">
</object>

Chihiro2
13-10-2008, 09:12 PM
here’s also an interesting experiment from Air

Run
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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/21/2108957/03%20Run.mp3">
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slightly transformed verses’ vocals give it a bit stronger, robotic sound (plus that french accent lol) and the chorus (‘run’ and ‘go’) made of multiplied voices built in a loop and layered over harmonized synths.
overall it creates cool hypnotic and mysterious atmosphere of the track.

eighthnoterojo
14-10-2008, 05:42 AM
^^That's pretty cool.

I realize some of you are tired of the Cher Believe song lol, but have you heard this version by Go Home Productions? (wait 12 seconds into the vid)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjdqIakubSs

:D

Superstition
14-10-2008, 10:45 AM
<object width="300" height="110">

<embed src="http://media.imeem.com/m/2DJVM0O7Fr/aus=false/" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="300" height="110">People Make The World Go Round (Talkbox Jam) (Live) - Stevie Wonder (http://www.imeem.com/people/0ONNpz-/music/C-IwK6Rb/stevie_wonder_people_make_the_world_go_round_talkb ox_jam/)

<object width="300" height="110"><param name="movie" value="http://media.imeem.com/m/J2Y-55izgO/aus=false/"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://media.imeem.com/m/J2Y-55izgO/aus=false/" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="300" height="110" wmode="transparent"></embed><a href="http://www.imeem.com/people/0ONNpz-/music/Rji2c0fS/stevie_wonder_girl_blue/">Girl Blue - Stevie Wonder</a></object>
</object>

arXter
20-10-2008, 01:05 PM
^ loving PMTWGR.


here's Rodney Jerkins taking after his mentor, Teddy:

http://i34.tinypic.com/m8ityx.jpg

Joe - Don't Wanna Be A Player
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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/joe_-_dont_wanna_be_a_player.mp3">
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(2-Step Garage Remix)
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eighthnoterojo
22-10-2008, 05:25 AM
Here's Opolopo.

"Some improvised vocoder funk alongside Lasse Berger from Swedish Brandy."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGMW0E26hOQ

Superstition
22-10-2008, 12:25 PM
Stevie Wonder on the talkbox at another concert doing a couple of random cuts..

Let's Get Physical and Never Can Say Goodbye (Jackson 5)

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bsp0pgY7HC0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

arXter
26-10-2008, 12:46 PM
here's a very cool vocoder-led cover from Bill Wolfer with MJ doing backgrounds.


http://i35.tinypic.com/350rub5.jpg

Papa Was A Rollin' Stone [1982]

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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/bill_wolfer_-_papa_was_a_rollin_stone.mp3"><br />
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</object>

Superstition
01-11-2008, 07:47 AM
Another MJ cover by Stevie... BILLIE JEAN.. :D

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QYErItf4jT8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QYErItf4jT8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

144,000
01-11-2008, 08:04 AM
Another MJ cover by Stevie... BILLIE JEAN.. :D

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/QYErItf4jT8&hl=en&fs=1 width=425 height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>


haha!! i loved that! the vocoder or the autotune can be used for many good things. Stevie did great with that! too bad we don't have full on bass sound with that. boy...i don't care how i cause people to lose breath over this..but i'd love to hear a real good autotune cover of billie jean. i think that would work!

arXter
01-11-2008, 09:46 AM
Another MJ cover by Stevie... BILLIE JEAN.. :D

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QYErItf4jT8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QYErItf4jT8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
aaahhhhh i love his talkbox medleys! those concerts better be followed by a well thought-out live DVD compilation.

cheers for posting this.

arXter
19-11-2008, 02:42 AM
swipe from Timmy's MJB thread (http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1681903)..

this is one of Teddy's most vibrant talk-box+vocoder combo, just improvising over Mary's vocal loop.


http://i37.tinypic.com/2u4mpz7.jpg

Mary J Blige - My Love (T.R. & Mary Mix) [1993]

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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/my_love_-_tr_and_mary.mp3"><br />
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</object>

Superstition
24-11-2008, 10:27 AM
^That's really nice... Mary is hit or miss for me, but that is a nice jam.

I about died when I saw this... Keith John (Stevie's longtime backup) is doing the vocals and Stevie is on talkbox.

<object width="400" height="300">


<embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=420618&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></object>
Stevie Wonder sings "Knockin' Boots" (http://vimeo.com/420618) from kim (http://vimeo.com/kimberly) on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com).

arXter
26-11-2008, 08:14 PM
Roger Troutman's protege, Sure 2 B (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=304888000), has some nice modern-day talkbox productions.


http://i37.tinypic.com/1zcaw7.jpg

here's the best take on a D'Angelo classic with solo sax, lush organs and the box:

Sure 2 B & Teddy Patterson - Brown Sugar
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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/t_patterson_-_brown_sugar.mp3"><br />
<param name="quality" value="high"><br />
<param name="menu" value="false"><br />
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</object>


and a Zappified slow-jam:

Sure 2 B - Old School Lovin'
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<param name="quality" value="high"><br />
<param name="menu" value="false"><br />
<param name="wmode" value="transparent"><br />
</object>


and this is a pretty decent (if not amateurish) MJ cover on that solo saxophonist's CD:

Teddy Patterson - You Rock My World
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<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID=4&amp;soundFile=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/9/7/2086157/t_patterson_-_yrmw.mp3"><br />
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Superstition
01-12-2008, 11:29 AM
Me'Shell Ndegeocello - Come Smoke My Herb. The talkbox kicks in at around the 5:08 mark.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5-hwFEGeMKI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5-hwFEGeMKI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

144,000
02-12-2008, 02:53 AM
Roger Troutman's protege, Sure 2 B (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=304888000), has some nice modern-day talkbox productions.


http://i37.tinypic.com/1zcaw7.jpg

here's the best take on a D'Angelo classic with solo sax, lush organs and the box:

Sure 2 B & Teddy Patterson - Brown Sugar
<OBJECT id=audioplayer4 type=application/x-shockwave-flash height=24 width=290 data=http://www.maximum-jackson.com/discussion/audio/audio-player/player.swf>


</p>
</p>
</p>
</p>
</p></OBJECT>


and a Zappified slow-jam:

Sure 2 B - Old School Lovin'
<OBJECT id=audioplayer4 type=application/x-shockwave-flash height=24 width=290 data=http://www.maximum-jackson.com/discussion/audio/audio-player/player.swf>


</p>
</p>
</p>
</p>
</p></OBJECT>


and this is a pretty decent (if not amateurish) MJ cover on that solo saxophonist's CD:

Teddy Patterson - You Rock My World
<OBJECT id=audioplayer4 type=application/x-shockwave-flash height=24 width=290 data=http://www.maximum-jackson.com/discussion/audio/audio-player/player.swf>


</p>
</p>
</p>
</p>
</p></OBJECT>


there's no doubt that those are pro musicians on that yrmw cover. so it really makes me appreciate MJ's talent that much more.

Yuki88
06-12-2008, 07:06 PM
Fingazz - Rock with You
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RnsP-YfIbVo&hl=ja&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RnsP-YfIbVo&hl=ja&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

GREAT:)

Yuki88
15-12-2008, 05:04 AM
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Superstition
27-01-2009, 04:48 PM
Lots of talk of Cher bringing the auto-tune effect in 1998.. I forgot Kid Rock had done it earlier in the year (1998) with "Only God Knows Why":


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Foxy..
28-01-2009, 10:35 PM
Well my Winamp player finally crashed with Bill Wolfer - Papa Was A Rollin' Stone on repeat.. Arx you owe me a PC!

arXter
28-01-2009, 10:44 PM
aaahhh my bad mate LOL it's in the name of good music, so all is well =P it better be anyway cos i'm skint http://www.bbc.co.uk/606/2/refresh/images/smileys/f_laugh.gif

coincidence we both reached this thread, i just finished typing this then the bloody website gave me a server error! typed it again...

__________________

this song was recorded by Mike and intended for Thriller after Quincy heard the Jap electronica group Yellow Magic Orchestra perform the original. it didn't work out and went to Mike's collaborator Greg Phillinganes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE5lhnv0QD4). Eric Clapton (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vknAa7Vhms) then recorded his own (hit) version.

this is the original 1979 track with vocoder vocals:


http://i43.tinypic.com/2ldzi9x.jpg

YMO - Behind The Mask

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arXter
20-02-2009, 04:51 PM
edit, page too slow.

arXter
20-02-2009, 04:58 PM
Chris Jasper's last r&b album (and one of his best), back from 1995. that second track uses the vocoder like Boddicker on Mike's P.Y.T.


http://i43.tinypic.com/okxvl3.jpg

Deep Inside
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There For You
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Superstition
21-02-2009, 03:28 AM
I really love the ending of "Black Man" by Stevie Wonder, as he essentially resings the first verse and does some ad-libs on the talkbox. However, there's a slightly annoying "History Lesson" at the end of the track. So I ran the track through audacity to get the backing talkbox track more prominent:

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:gRwcqEAHec2lfM:http://oneray.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/songs-in-the-key-of-life_stevie-wonder.jpg

Stevie Wonder: Black Man (Backing talkbox vocals)
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arXter
21-04-2009, 11:13 AM
more njs era talkbox layers, this time from talkbox-maestro Fingazz (http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1704291&highlight=fingazz#post1704291) of The Untouchables, done in the style of Teddy's "new jack jazz" with the upright bass:



http://i39.tinypic.com/2cdzu52.jpg

INTRO

Come Inside
(Fingazz Mix)
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Fingazz's YouTube channel with talkbox-making vids in the studio:

http://www.youtube.com/user/FingazzClassics

Superstition
05-05-2009, 10:00 AM
http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:87kto7vYpsTCBM:http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KqndcpjQSek/SNk_AUUKqVI/AAAAAAAAIv8/Qnmwbw9DBIo/s400/guy-bestOf.jpg

Guy - Tell Me What You Like
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Superstition
11-05-2009, 11:35 AM
Rufus & Chaka getting mega-funky on "Tell Me Something Good". Loving the talkbox on this one.

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arXter
17-05-2009, 01:28 AM
^ that's brill.

here's Teddy freestyling on an 8-minute medley of select hits:

My Prerogative (Bobby Brown)
Now That I Found Love (Heavy D)
I Wanna Get With You (Guy)
Just Got Paid (Keith Sweat)
Remember The Time (MJ)
Groove Me (Guy)

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Superstition
17-05-2009, 07:16 AM
He did the little dancebreak part of Remember The Time.. love it. Too bad there isn't a 12" version of RTT out there. I've got the remixes and ripped the video track, but its just not the same.

DuranDuran
26-09-2009, 12:26 AM
Roger and the Human Body ~ Bearing Straight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzratHtc-PU

DuranDuran
19-02-2010, 12:06 AM
Here's some more Sonovox footage.
blhqeWpwwkA&fmt=18

DuranDuran
05-04-2010, 02:47 PM
Here's a funk classic featuring a vocoder.
1PBjNyZwqXs&fmt=18

DIRTYDIANA☆
06-04-2010, 03:53 AM
Roger Troutman is the GOAT with the talkbox!

arXter
07-05-2010, 03:31 AM
Current Blue Note jazz pianist Robert Glasper's new(ish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-Booked)) album featuring this mint Herbie cover with some revamping of the talkbox and gorgeous drum and bass work.

Watch out for his background layering of multiple talkbox harmonies.



http://i44.tinypic.com/sgl2iq.jpg

2009
Robert Glasper Experiment

Butterfly
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DuranDuran
30-05-2010, 10:52 PM
My grandmother used to have this on an 8-track.
5jTsGnbjmNY&fmt=18

DuranDuran
09-03-2011, 08:48 PM
Auto-Tune
http://i53.tinypic.com/sw3cl5.jpg
http://www.twobitnews.com/files/AutoTuneNative-large_0.jpg

Not every lead singer is blessed with perfect pitch. This incredible tool helps correct vocal imperfections by automatically adjusting the vocal track to the intended notes. If automatic mode isn't for you, you can also dive in and tweak notes one by one with a virtual keyboard. There's even a graphical interface that allows you to visualize the vocal track and bump notes up and down in a way that isn't disruptive or obvious to the listener.

Although the program is best known for the singing-through-a-fan, robotic vocal style that has dominated pop radio in recent years with stars like Lady Gaga, T-Pain and countless others, Auto-Tune is in fact widely used in the studio and at concerts to make artists' sound pitch-perfect.

"Quite frankly, [use of Auto-Tune] happens on almost all vocal performances you hear on the radio," said Marco Alpert, vice president of marketing for Antares Audio Technologies, the company that holds the trademark and patent for Auto-Tune.

The beauty of Auto-Tune, Alpert said, is that instead of an artist having to sing take after take, struggling to get through a song flawlessly, Auto-Tune can clean up small goofs.

"It used to be that singers would have to sing a song over and over, and by that time you've lost the emotional content of the performance," Alpert said. "Auto-Tune is used most often for an artist who has delivered a fabulous performance emotionally and there may be a few pitch problems here and there . . . [the software] can save a once-in-a-lifetime performance."

How it works

Auto-Tune users set a reference point – a scale or specific notes, for example – and a rate at which derivations from this point will be digitally corrected.
This rate can be carefully calibrated so a voice sounds "natural," by tacking the voice smoothly back to the reference pitch. Or, artists can make the correction happen quickly and artificially, which results in the warbling, digitized voices now all the rage in pop, hip-hip, reggae and other types of music.

Auto-Tune's invention sprung from a quite unrelated field: prospecting for oil underground using sound waves. Andy Hildebrand, a geophysicist who worked with Exxon, came up with a technique called autocorrelation to interpret these waves. During the 1990s, Hildebrand founded the company that later became Antares, and he applied his tools to voices.

The recording industry pounced on the technology, and the first song credited (or bemoaned) for introducing Auto-Tune to the masses was Cher's 1998 hit "Believe.

Although a success with audio engineers, Auto-Tune remained largely out of sight until 2003 when rhythm and blues crooner T-Pain discovered its voice-altering effects.

DuranDuran
13-06-2012, 10:30 PM
tGWgfoL168w