Prop 8 Overturned In California

[Travis]

How come no one is talking about this? This is a great day for gay rights! Maybe now I can finally get that marriage license!!! http://absolutemadonna.com/absolutemadonnatawk/images/smilies/thumbup.gif http://absolutemadonna.com/absolutemadonnatawk/images/smilies/thumbup.gif http://absolutemadonna.com/absolutemadonnatawk/images/smilies/PartyK.gif

<!-- m -->http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38560562/ns/us_news-life/

[JohnC]

Apparently us gays will experience hell eventually. So why not get married?

[max000]

Yeah, great news.!! Happy for the gay community. The battle is not over. It's going to the supreme court. President OBAMA two female supreme court appointees will vote in support of the gay community. I know that BRONX native justice SONIA SOTOMAYOR will be on your side Travis and JohnC.

[Travis]

The battle is never over, but it's yet another step in the right direction. Equal rights is always an uphill battle. Remember, there was once a time too when people tried to justify slavery, segregation, and blacks not being able to marry (among many other horrors) through the bible and it's teachings. Thank goodness for separation of church and state!

You'd think we would learn from our own past, but no. Fear and misunderstanding always trumps fairness. If only we could look at the big picture and realize that "to each their own" and "live and let live" are truly words to live by.

I'll leave you with some quotes:

“Misunderstanding arising from ignorance breeds fear, and fear remains the greatest enemy of peace.” Lester B. Pearson

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.” Bertrand Russell

“Neither a man nor a crowd nor a nation can be trusted to act humanely or to think sanely under the influence of a great fear.” Bertrand Russell

[JohnC]

Even if this does get legalised or whatever, then the whole 'gay people adopting' issue will come up, then theres a whole other battle... But, then again, at least we have a better reason for having kids than '...the condom broke...'

[max000]

The battle is not over, but you are winning, and the evil-doers know it.
Saw KEITH OLBERMANN'S comment last night about the topic. It was a repeat from 2008, but it was damn good. I do not like OLBERMANN personally but i love his politics. Love how he goes after the hypocrites. His relentless attacks on RUPERT MURDOCK's dishonest, corrupt brand of journalism is priceless.

[MJstarlight]

this is great news!!!! :)

[Fluffy_Oz]

Apparently us gays will experience hell eventually. So why not get married?

good point. yous are condemned already, so why not run amuck, steal, kill, GET MARRIED???

that's great news, and I'm happy for all gays.:) hopefully the rest of the world (that hasn't yet) will follow.

[Dangerous21]

I don't read or watch the news but this is actually good news! Equality for all...

[Travis]

good point. yous are condemned already, so why not run amuck, steal, kill, GET MARRIED???

that's great news, and I'm happy for all gays.:) hopefully the rest of the world (that hasn't yet) will follow.

LOL@Fluffy:D

If we really wanted to corrupt the world we'd all become politicians. :cheeky:

[JohnC]

If we really wanted to corrupt the world we'd all become politicians. :cheeky:
Nah. Some of us are too smart for politics.

[Severus Snape]

About time for prop. o8 to kick the bucket.

Hopefully this will send a message to all Americans that the time has come to get with the program and stop discriminating against gays, bisexuals and lesbians. Whoever wants to get married should be able to do so as long as both people are at or above the legal age of consent.

[Sophielo]

This is great news, I was really happy to hear this had been overturned. This is the 21st century and to hide behind the bible to condemn homosexuality is simply ridiculous as the bible says a lot of things that are simply not relevant to todays society, including Leviticus. Congrats to you guys who this affects!

[laramay]

I'm very happy about this. I have a lot of gay friends, however, in Sweden, we're pretty openminded in general, maybe more so than in the States, I'm not sure.
Either way, I think everyone should have equal rights in this world, regardless of race, sexuality or whatever.

[Darth Sidious]

Terrible.

[Buttercup]

Wonderful news :) The country I live in legalized same-sex marriage 5 years ago, and I hope more places follow suit.

[Marilyn Monroe]

great, great, great news.

[Moonwalker.Fan]

as far as I know 52% voters said NO, ... then... a lawsuit brought by two same-sex couples and the city of San Francisco seeking to invalidate the law as an unlawful infringement on the civil rights of gay men and lesbians.

Where is the democracy?

People of California said NO!

[JohnC]

as far as I know 52% voters said NO, ... then... a lawsuit brought by two same-sex couples and the city of San Francisco seeking to invalidate the law as an unlawful infringement on the civil rights of gay men and lesbians.

Where is the democracy?

People of California said NO!
So.... if 52% of people vote that black people shouldn't have the same rights as white people... that makes it ok?

That statistic only proves that only 48% of California actually has a brain.

[LoveMJackson]

Good news! Its about time.

[max000]

So.... if 52% of people vote that black people shouldn't have the same rights as white people... that makes it ok?

That statistic only proves that only 48% of California actually has a brain.


Figured people on this board were some what like-minded, over flowing with love and compassion. Disullusioned i am so wrong.

Why are so many afraid of a law, that won't effect them one iota.????

[JohnC]

Figured people on this board were some what like-minded, over flowing with love and compassion. Disullusioned i am so wrong.

Why are so many afraid of a law, that won't effect them one iota.????
Well, in this case, they don't know the first thing about gay people. All those close minded people do is make an asumption and asume they're right. Thats whats wrong with the world in general. Too blind to see their own flaws.

[144,000]

The battle is never over, but it's yet another step in the right direction. Equal rights is always an uphill battle. Remember, there was once a time too when people tried to justify slavery, segregation, and blacks not being able to marry (among many other horrors) through the bible and it's teachings. Thank goodness for separation of church and state!

You'd think we would learn from our own past, but no. Fear and misunderstanding always trumps fairness. If only we could look at the big picture and realize that "to each their own" and "live and let live" are truly words to live by.

I'll leave you with some quotes:

“Misunderstanding arising from ignorance breeds fear, and fear remains the greatest enemy of peace.” Lester B. Pearson

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.” Bertrand Russell

“Neither a man nor a crowd nor a nation can be trusted to act humanely or to think sanely under the influence of a great fear.” Bertrand Russell




i never knew that...where in the bible does it say black people can't get married?

[sweet princess]

Congrats to the gay community. It's all for LOVE. :flowers:

[ginvid]

i never knew that...where in the bible does it say black people can't get married?

Ii doesn't but people try to justify anything. Any thinking person who is not seeking to justify a simple minded and barbaric view can see through that. However, homosexuality is expressly condemned. What I do not like is when the gay rights movement is compared to the civil rights movement. It is NOT the same. It is different on so many levels. And no I will not explain my opinion any further. At that I will leave this thread. i just wanted to say that.

And BTW, (Before I go) the Bible is VERY applicable to what goes on today. This is the 21st century and it is even more poignant for today's world. And those who believe in it do not need to use it to "hide" behind anything. And on a final note, it annoys me to no end when people think that just because a person does not agree with homosexuality, it is because they are ignorant and in fear of it. They can be two completely different ideas and are not necessarily intertwined (Although I can admit they can be). We just cannot assume they are.

[JohnC]

What I do not like is when the gay rights movement is compared to the civil rights movement. It is NOT the same.
In terms of 'equality', it's very similar.


the Bible is VERY applicable to what goes on today.
Ill believe that when I see a talking snake offering me some fruit.

[ginvid]

In terms of 'equality', it's very similar.


Ill believe that when I see a talking snake offering me some fruit.

You can think that way as you will. I am simply stating my opinion. We are on polar opposites on both issues but hey not all will agree. And this is something we will not agree on.

[DanceofLorelei1994]

Getting closer to equality.

Healing the world. :)

[123Jam]

1 It should have never been voted on in the first place
who are we to vote on the marriage rights of others

2 People do not understand the judicial system
even though the law was voted on and passes doesn't make it automatically right and the permanent law. it is still subject to review by courts
it could have passed with 90% vote and still be revoked because it is how america has always and will always work.
George W. Bush lost the popular vote yet he was elected president. why? because the electoral college voted differently and take precedence over the popular vote.

3 Separation of Church and State
the founding fathers established this principle in many documents
the first amendment to the constitution states that the government can not deny the freedom of religion, however, it also states that government should not create laws respecting a particular established religion

4 The Bible is not the authority
The Bible also condones slavery and killing those who don't observe the sabbath(resting on sunday)
To Christians out there, your not suppose to pick and chose what parts of the bible you like, and your not even suppose to be judging others in the first place

5 God
IF god says homosexuality is an abomination and homosexuals are condemned to hell then why did he make homosexuality a natural occurrence among animals. I thought god was suppose to be looking out for us and be all loving.
Did it ever occur to people that there might not be a god or if you chose to believe in god then did it ever occur that maybe this condemnation of homosexuality is man derived and not truly god's word. If you take everything in the bible as god's word you should also be promoting slavery, genocide of non believers, and killing those who work on Sunday of course in accordance with god's word


I am not homosexual but recognize injustice/intolerance/hypocrisy/religious bigotry/discrimination when I see it and it is all applicable in this case.

The issue will make it to the supreme court eventually though and gay marriage will be allowed

[Courtney]

I was so excited when I heard about this last week. I think this is great news. It's about time they stop discriminating against the gays. If only the rest of the country would agree on this. I honestly don't see the big deal. The Church believes that marriage should be between a man and a woman but what about what the rest of us believe? Love is love, you can't control that. It's nobody's business to judge the gays, in my opinion.

Great news. Equal rights for everybody. :yes:

[144,000]

1 It should have never been voted on in the first place
who are we to vote on the marriage rights of others

2 People do not understand the judicial system
even though the law was voted on and passes doesn't make it automatically right and the permanent law. it is still subject to review by courts
it could have passed with 90% vote and still be revoked because it is how america has always and will always work.
George W. Bush lost the popular vote yet he was elected president. why? because the electoral college voted differently and take precedence over the popular vote.

3 Separation of Church and State
the founding fathers established this principle in many documents
the first amendment to the constitution states that the government can not deny the freedom of religion, however, it also states that government should not create laws respecting a particular established religion

4 The Bible is not the authority
The Bible also condones slavery and killing those who don't observe the sabbath(resting on sunday)
To Christians out there, your not suppose to pick and chose what parts of the bible you like, and your not even suppose to be judging others in the first place

5 God
IF god says homosexuality is an abomination and homosexuals are condemned to hell then why did he make homosexuality a natural occurrence among animals. I thought god was suppose to be looking out for us and be all loving.
Did it ever occur to people that there might not be a god or if you chose to believe in god then did it ever occur that maybe this condemnation of homosexuality is man derived and not truly god's word. If you take everything in the bible as god's word you should also be promoting slavery, genocide of non believers, and killing those who work on Sunday of course in accordance with god's word


I am not homosexual but recognize injustice/intolerance/hypocrisy/religious bigotry/discrimination when I see it and it is all applicable in this case.

The issue will make it to the supreme court eventually though and gay marriage will be allowed

the Jews are historically recorded as being delivered from slavery, in the Bible. it records the God of the Bible as delivering them from slavery, and hating that they were in slavery. remember Exodus? remember the movie 'the ten commandments' that they show on network tv every year, where Moses is the one designated to lead them out of slavery?

and do not look at me as condemning gays, because i ask you to read something before you comment on it, because i do not condemn gays, by pointing you to something that you haven't read. because i don't condemn anyone. i have yet to see anyone truly read what they are commenting on, because they obviously didn't read what was there. there is a verse in the Bible that says 'lean not to thine own understanding'. the entire Bible is based on that verse. that means, chances are, whatever you say about the Bible is wrong. and i'm not going to pretend to explain it, because the understanding the Bible refers to, is also my understanding. as well as yours.

[Moonwalker.Fan]

Guys.... the mankind is dating to 3 million years, and the human race - homo sapiens sapiens=today´s people are old 100-40 thousands years.... so BIBLE and "GOD" (or any religion) are irrelevant here!!!!

Homosexuality is the inseparable part of the human nature and nature itself.

Only people who wanted to create the Godhead strictly separated only the parts they wanted them to be venerated.

Only people created GODs and religions.

I recommend to read a book - Homosexuality In History
(http://www.amazon.com/Homosexuality-History-Colin-Spencer/dp/0151002231/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281471115&sr=8-12)

+

Gay Life & Culture: A World History (http://www.amazon.com/Gay-Life-Culture-World-History/dp/0789315114/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281471115&sr=8-8)

A Natural History of Homosexuality (http://www.amazon.com/Natural-History-Homosexuality-Francis-Mondimore/dp/0801854407/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281471115&sr=8-1)

Homosexuality and Civilization (http://www.amazon.com/Homosexuality-Civilization-Louis-Crompton/dp/0674022335/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281471115&sr=8-3)

[ginvid]

1 It should have never been voted on in the first place
who are we to vote on the marriage rights of others

2 People do not understand the judicial system
even though the law was voted on and passes doesn't make it automatically right and the permanent law. it is still subject to review by courts
it could have passed with 90% vote and still be revoked because it is how america has always and will always work.
George W. Bush lost the popular vote yet he was elected president. why? because the electoral college voted differently and take precedence over the popular vote.

3 Separation of Church and State
the founding fathers established this principle in many documents
the first amendment to the constitution states that the government can not deny the freedom of religion, however, it also states that government should not create laws respecting a particular established religion

Either you are misapplying this or are you saying homosexuality is a religion? Otherwise it makes no sense in the context of the discussion here. You could mean that religion should not determine laws (Maybe) but even that is not true. Religion has always governed law and it always will as long as people are religious. It even played a hand in the development of the US despite what they wrote on that paper.


4 The Bible is not the authority
The Bible also condones slavery and killing those who don't observe the sabbath(resting on sunday)
To Christians out there, your not suppose to pick and chose what parts of the bible you like, and your not even suppose to be judging others in the first place

Again, someone without an understanding of the Bible trying to use it to throw stones at others. The Mosiac law covenant and the the "New Covenant" set up as a part of Christianity are two separate things. Christians are no longer under that law and do not have to abide by it. And simply because the Bible is not the authority for you, you must by now understand in your life that it is the authority for many and many adhere very strongly to it.


5 God
IF god says homosexuality is an abomination and homosexuals are condemned to hell then why did he make homosexuality a natural occurrence among animals. I thought god was suppose to be looking out for us and be all loving.
Did it ever occur to people that there might not be a god or if you chose to believe in god then did it ever occur that maybe this condemnation of homosexuality is man derived and not truly god's word. If you take everything in the bible as god's word you should also be promoting slavery, genocide of non believers, and killing those who work on Sunday of course in accordance with god's word

God does not say homosexuals are condemned to hell. And animals can do what ever they like. They are not bound by any spiritual priciples merely instinct. They also kill, rape, steal, you name it. But they are not reasoning beings and do not have an understanding of the laws that govern themselves. And again this tirade about slavery, genocide, and the Sabbath does nothing but belie your own ignorance of the Bible and your own lack of understanding.



I am not homosexual but recognize injustice/intolerance/hypocrisy/religious bigotry/discrimination when I see it and it is all applicable in this case.

What you recognize is what you want to recognize. i usually do not comment on threads such as these because I do not want to seem as though I am stirring up controversy. But I cannot be idle while the same people on the thread who look for equality and tolerance and so forth take aim and so aggregiously condemn, sterotype and denounce attitudes and actions which they do not understand and which are different from theirs. They do they same thing as religious fanatics and it is very disheartening. If those who believed in the Bible were to start rattling off on homosexuality, they would be called homophobic, yet it is acceptable here for people to go on and on about the Bible and those who believe? Whatever!!! The intolerance comes through in the ignorance of some of the comments in this thread. And I for one am sick of it. You guys spout out pure venom in blanket statements and it angers me. It is also offensive. I'm sorry Travis, I did not mean to derail your thread and I hope from this point on it can be a more positive thread on both sides and people on both sides can agree to disagree with demeaning others and their beliefs.




The issue will make it to the supreme court eventually though and gay marriage will be allowed

I believe it will.

[123Jam]

Generally abrahamic religions are against homosexuality therefore it is believed to be unacceptable(for them to be together let alone marry), HOWEVER, this can not be established as a law of the government simply because this belief is part of the majority of religious institutions.

I'm sure you will agree with me that the United States is not a theocracy but many of those in government often heed their religious beliefs while in office ideally they should not though because the united states government is based on John Locke's social contract and derives its power from the people not god.

Regardless of the details of the Bible (whether it says one thing or another)
in no case should it be used as the authority for the judicial system. One religion may call for one thing and another religion call for another



The overall point is that for SOME people(due solely to their religious beliefs) feel homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry. It is their right to feel this way and a church can deny homosexual couples marriage if they want BUT the government whether federal or state can not.


Im sorry if i offended anyone or gave misinformed details about the Bible but i just wanted to point out the flaws and lack of logic in arguments against allowing homosexuals to marry.








Either you are misapplying this or are you saying homosexuality is a religion? Otherwise it makes no sense in the context of the discussion here. You could mean that religion should not determine laws (Maybe) but even that is not true. Religion has always governed law and it always will as long as people are religious. It even played a hand in the development of the US despite what they wrote on that paper.



Again, someone without an understanding of the Bible trying to use it to throw stones at others. The Mosiac law covenant and the the "New Covenant" set up as a part of Christianity are two separate things. Christians are no longer under that law and do not have to abide by it. And simply because the Bible is not the authority for you, you must by now understand in your life that it is the authority for many and many adhere very strongly to it.



God does not say homosexuals are condemned to hell. And animals can do what ever they like. They are not bound by any spiritual priciples merely instinct. They also kill, rape, steal, you name it. But they are not reasoning beings and do not have an understanding of the laws that govern themselves. And again this tirade about slavery, genocide, and the Sabbath does nothing but belie your own ignorance of the Bible and your own lack of understanding.




What you recognize is what you want to recognize. i usually do not comment on threads such as these because I do not want to seem as though I am stirring up controversy. But I cannot be idle while the same people on the thread who look for equality and tolerance and so forth take aim and so aggregiously condemn, sterotype and denounce attitudes and actions which they do not understand and which are different from theirs. They do they same thing as religious fanatics and it is very disheartening. If those who believed in the Bible were to start rattling off on homosexuality, they would be called homophobic, yet it is acceptable here for people to go on and on about the Bible and those who believe? Whatever!!! The intolerance comes through in the ignorance of some of the comments in this thread. And I for one am sick of it. You guys spout out pure venom in blanket statements and it angers me. It is also offensive. I'm sorry Travis, I did not mean to derail your thread and I hope from this point on it can be a more positive thread on both sides and people on both sides can agree to disagree with demeaning others and their beliefs.





I believe it will.

[ginvid]

Generally abrahamic religions are against homosexuality therefore it is believed to be unacceptable(for them to be together let alone marry), HOWEVER, this can not be established as a law of the government simply because this belief is part of the majority of religious institutions.

I'm sure you will agree with me that the United States is not a theocracy but many of those in government often heed their religious beliefs while in office ideally they should not though because the united states government is based on John Locke's social contract and derives its power from the people not god.

Regardless of the details of the Bible (whether it says one thing or another)
in no case should it be used as the authority for the judicial system. One religion may call for one thing and another religion call for another



The overall point is that for SOME people(due solely to their religious beliefs) feel homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry. It is their right to feel this way and a church can deny homosexual couples marriage if they want BUT the government whether federal or state can not.


Im sorry if i offended anyone or gave misinformed details about the Bible but i just wanted to point out the flaws and lack of logic in arguments against allowing homosexuals to marry.










OK, Understood. I do agree with you in saying US government is not a theocracy. As such, we cannot (and I do not) expect for Biblical laws to govern it. And as our society becomes more and more secular, we will see the prevailing attitudes once governed by the Bible being overturned more and more in matters of government.

I think we can agree on this. :flowers:

[Siyahamba]

As someone from a country that has had marriage equality for over five years now, I have to say: What's the fuss? Opposite-sex Canadian couples are still getting married, and they're still having children. Churches are still free to marry and not marry whom they choose. The sky hasn't fallen.