Just saw this thread...
Lemme just clarify a few things:
I think the estates of Michael, Elvis and the Beatles all over exaggerated sales to promote each artists' reputation, the labels they were associated with shipped so many of their albums over the years also.
Thriller is not disputed by anyone as the best-selling album of all time, that much is clear by Wyman, Guinness and the estate. What's NOT clear is "how much".
The American market is the biggest market for music in the world so 29 million actual sales (of the album) are accounted for.
The best-selling album in the UK (Queen's hits album) sold over 6 million, Thriller did over 4 million there. This is what it what was counted.
Another big music market, Australia, had Thriller selling over 1.12 million. The best-selling album in Australia has only gotten up to 1.6 million (Meat Loaf and some Australian dude named John Furnham) but that goes with the population.
In Canada, it's around 2 million or more.
In Japan, it's around 2.5 million copies. I think one of Mariah's albums is over 3 million so she tops MJ in the best-selling international album ever in Japan.
In France, the top-selling album there is Celine Dion's "D'eux" and that only sold like 4 million. MJ did 2.3 million there.
In Germany, it sold 1.5 million copies (best-selling album there is around 3.15 million).
So far, 29 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 2.5 + 2.3 + 1.5 = 42.30 million albums (not units mind you).
Then you gotta factor in Brazil (3.8 million), Argentina (500,000+), Austria (400,000+), Finland (119,061), Hong Kong (80,000+), Italy (100,000+), Mexico (1.6 million), the Netherlands (1.4 million), New Zealand (180,000+), Portugal (40,000+), Sweden (400,000+) and Switzerland (300,000+).
42.30 + 9.30 = roughly 51.60 million so far.
Here's more figures posted from UK Mix:
Greece = 100,000 (sales it was reported to have sold in 1983)
Spain = 600,000+
Belgium = 560,000+
Denmark = 180,000+
Poland = 20,000+
Ireland = 7,500+
Norway = 150,000+
Czechoslovakia = 100,000 in imports reported around April of 1985
Yugoslavia = 112,000 reported around June of 1984 (possibly imports)
Russia = 10,000+ (based on Thriller 25 alone; I don't think Russia sold much of international music until after the mid-1990s and right around that time Michael was finally able to take full advantage of the Russian market whereas during Thriller he wasn't able to)
Singapore = 40,000
South Korea = 3,000 (T25 only)
India = original album sold more than 100,000, T25 sold 15,000 (115,000 copies-plus)
South Africa (the only African country I know that covers album sales, not too sure about Zaire, Nigeria, Zambia, Angola, Kenya or whatever) = 100,000+
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Hmm, well whadaya know? It rounds up to roughly 54 million plus tax. :lol:
Now you ask "well where's the other 46 million at?"
Well most countries don't have the same sales/shipments statistic ruling that a country like, say, the United States, has.
Like an album goes platinum in the states, it's one million actual sales.
In the UK, if you go platinum, the ruling is only roughly 300,000.
In Australia, you can go platinum selling 70,000.
In Japan, 250,000 is platinum, you can reach one million but it'll be a "Diamond" album. Unfortunately Thriller's Japan certification appears to be stuck in Gold but I guess they're sticking with how they tallied it up in those days (in the UK, it's sold 4.2 million but it's certified less than Bad; Thriller is 11x platinum in the UK but Bad is 13x platinum).
In Brazil, 80,000 is enough for platinum.
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I think for Thriller to actually sell over 100 million albums (which ain't the same as units, which could be what the estate is going on...but then again I haven't been able to corroborate that the estate actually sent this statement), least five countries are going to have to go with the same estimates as the states.
Like take the UK for instance. if the certification is 11x platinum, that would mean it actually sold 11 million copies.
It's 8x platinum in the Netherlands, then it would be 8 million copies.
It's also 8x platinum in Austria.
16x platinum in Australia
3x platinum in Germany
"Diamond" in France (in the U.S./America, it's 10 million, so if we used the U.S. tally in France, then France would say 10 million)
It's also Diamond in Argentina though it only has really sold 500,000 and that goes with the country's population. But if we use the U.S. tally, it'll be 10 million.
So that's 95 million.
Then we have other certifications:
Canada is 2x Diamond... so let's say they used the U.S. tally, 2x Diamond is exactly what Thriller is in the United States, but if we used the same U.S. tally in Canada, that'll be 20+ million.
And we're over 115 million (that is if every country went by the U.S. tally and not their own). And then it's "platinum" in other countries, so it could round up to 120 million.
That would be the only way to prove Thriller actually did sell what has been rumored.
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"But what about everything else that goes with Thriller? Should that count?"
OK, let's try that...
Let's say we round up the sales of every Thriller single release:
"The Girl is Mine"
"Billie Jean"
"Beat It"
"Wanna Be Startin' Something"
"P.Y.T."
"Human Nature"
"Thriller"
According to UKMix, in the U.S. alone, Billie Jean as a physical single did 2.5 million. The Girl is Mine, 1.5 million. Beat It, 2 million. WBSS, around 900,000+. Human Nature, around 800,000+. P.Y.T., around 600,000. Thriller, around 1.05 million. So Thriller's seven singles altogether sold roughly 9.35 million. For some singles, like Beat It and Billie Jean, if you add in mastertone and digital formats, it did over 3 million.
According to some worldwide figures for Billie Jean, it sold over 70,000+ in Australia, over 500,000 in the UK, 20,000 in Spain, 200,000+ in Canada, 1 million in France and 7.5 million in New Zealand. No other countries' sales were tallied. It went number two in South Africa but it's no telling how much copies it actually sold as of now. Some singles can successfully chart at number one or at the top ten without being certified and having no idea of the sales.
Beat It's worldwide sales include 70,000+ in Australia, 100,000+ in Canada, 15,000+ in Denmark, 1.18 million in France, 7,500+ in New Zealand, and 250,000+ in the UK.
Thriller (single)'s sales include 1 million physical sales, 3.3 million digital sales and 500,000 ringtones so it could be Michael's best-selling single of all time in the states if it's all tallied up. It did 140,000+ in Australia, 100,000+ in Canada, nearly a million in France (975,000+), 25,000+ in Italy, 30,000+ in Mexico and 250,000+ in Mexico.
To be fair, the singles' sales for Thriller were great compared to any other album before (or probably sense). Billie Jean, Beat It and Thriller were the real main sellers among the 7.
The Making of Michael Jackson's Thriller, which could or probably not count, to Thriller, sold nine million copies, I don't know if it's just the states or worldwide altogether.
I also know you probably wonder about how it matches up in LPs, cassettes, CDs and MP3s. And that's when digital album sales probably factor in and it's no telling because the estate hasn't called for audits at this point in the U.S. for digital sales as they do with albums now that are in demand both physically and digitally.
It's a difficult process, really. But either way, it doesn't diminish that it sold twice more albums than the number-two best-selling album (Back in Black, which is now roughly around between 45-50 million, give or take) while Thriller is roughly around between 51-65 million in total sales estimates (just as an album). 65 million would probably be a good excuse for most fans, mainly because of digital sales and/or T25 sales. I don't think anyone, even MJ's label, adds a copy to an album's sales based on how many compilations the album's singles are placed on there. Not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it's a really weird way of adding to it because I don't know if it would mean one unit each for each compilation.
I love Michael as much as the next person but I just think when it comes to sales, we have to be honest, each artist is gonna have over-exaggerated sales. People don't believe Elvis sold a billion (and I don't even think when Elvis died, he did that much). You gotta remember, it was a really DIFFERENT time when Elvis was out. Albums weren't big then, it was mainly singles. The Beatles also came at a different time but by then albums slowly became a factor, maybe not in the early 1960s but definitely in the later portion of the decade. MJ benefited from a sales boon in the 1980s. That's why he or his estate could claim the sales it claimed to have done. Wyman might've not done favors with his opinions on Michael but you have to admit, it's actually a good discussion to see how sales are done. I just thought I'd point that out. Again, this is just from what I've been reading.
