Did MJ Have ANY Faults?

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

I think the HIStory Tour issue is complex. I don't think MJ was in the best of health during it and perhaps the Royal Bruni show was an opportunity for him to see if he could sing more live vocals? I don't know, but he did sing the first performance of Scream live and I'm giving the man the benefit of the doubt that he signed on to do the tour with the best of intentions.

When he did sing live his voice wasn't in great shape and I would imagine the jetlag left him utterly exhausted and dead on his feet if his immune system was low to begin with. I went out to Vegas and LA for a few weeks a few months ago and wasn't right for weeks afterwards. I'm just back a little over two weeks from a trip to Mauritius for a family wedding and I'm still recovering from it. This jetlag has never been a problem for me in the past, but this year (I'm 37) it has worn me into the ground. I can only imagine MJ doing those long haul transatlantic and oceanic flights and then having to get on stage in front of 60 or so thousand people.

I don't think he ever set out to short change people and always went to every effort to delight his fans. The workload MJ had and the family life he had was ferocious during that time and the man looked exhausted at times.

You can go see Britney right now in Vegas and she lip syncs her way through her show every night, she's in the same venue every night (no globe hopping involved) and she looks quite healthy and capable of live vocals although I know she's not a great singer to begin with.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

LindavG said:

I wonder how this can be though. Didn't Seth Riggs say Michael took great care to preserve his voice? He had a soft speaking voice too and it wasn't like he was using his voice excessively (for interviews and such) either. He sounded great during the Bad tour (I have watched that Yokohama concert a million times) so I don't understand how his voice could decline so much in just a few years. Perhaps there was an underlying medical issue we don't know about. It doesn't make sense to me why Michael would choose to lipsynch almost the entire show when he was so obsessed with being perceived as a great performer.

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Michael's voice wasn't in that great shape at all by the time the HIStory tour came around, it only continued to decline as time went on, hence his increased reliance on lip syncing. He needed to preserve his voice. It was mainly the way he was singing, the "gritty voice" wasn't good for his vocal chords at all. It's a shame really that his health continued to decline.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

LindavG said:

Maybe I need to give it a chance then. I did enjoy the rehearsals that I saw, even if it was just him messing around. Is the Bucharest concert the best one?

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DON'T watch Bucharest. I bought it years ago and still haven't been able to get past the first 20 or so minutes of the show. The audience shots are so distracting that it drives me crazy. I don't know what they were thinking-we're watching the concert to see Michael, not close-ups of screaming, hysterical girls. The only way I can watch any of Bucharest is in bits and pieces-like IJCSLY with Siedah on the computer because they actually keep the cameras on them.

Now, the rehearsals? I discovered them on YouTube around 2008 and I could watch them anytime, any place-and I do-they are absolutely wonderful.

I relented and decided to give Bremen a shot last year and I enjoyed it-at least I watched it all the way through. Nothing, to me, beats the rehearsals.

aazzaabb said:

I think the HIStory Tour issue is complex. I don't think MJ was in the best of health during it and perhaps the Royal Bruni show was an opportunity for him to see if he could sing more live vocals? I don't know, but he did sing the first performance of Scream live and I'm giving the man the benefit of the doubt that he signed on to do the tour with the best of intentions.

When he did sing live his voice wasn't in great shape and I would imagine the jetlag left him utterly exhausted and dead on his feet if his immune system was low to begin with. I went out to Vegas and LA for a few weeks a few months ago and wasn't right for weeks afterwards. I'm just back a little over two weeks from a trip to Mauritius for a family wedding and I'm still recovering from it. This jetlag has never been a problem for me in the past, but this year (I'm 37) it has worn me into the ground. I can only imagine MJ doing those long haul transatlantic and oceanic flights and then having to get on stage in front of 60 or so thousand people.

I don't think he ever set out to short change people and always went to every effort to delight his fans. The workload MJ had and the family life he had was ferocious during that time and the man looked exhausted at times.

You can go see Britney right now in Vegas and she lip syncs her way through her show every night, she's in the same venue every night (no globe hopping involved) and she looks quite healthy and capable of live vocals although I know she's not a great singer to begin with.

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I don't enjoy the History tour for these reasons-not so much the lip syncing, (because yes, its noticable on the close-ups and he sounds like the album), but because he looks really tired and exhausted in it. We know Metzger was traveling with him during that tour and much later on learned that's where he used the propofol-but he just seems so tired.
BUT one time not too long ago I watched a home movie version of the History Tour-and I felt like I was sandwiched in between thousands of fans while I was watching it and the experience was totally different-you couldn't tell the lip syncing, you couldn't tell that Michael was tired and that the lupus was wearing him down-I think from the real audience standpoint it was probably a terrific show.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

I think my main problem with the HIStory tour, apart from the lip syncing is how robotic and disinterested MJ looks. He honestly looks like he doesn't want to be there, also, as barbee said, he was using propofol and that probably didn't help him.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Pink Diamond Princess said:

LOL, I didnt like this idea if part of this part of the forum at first, but on second thought I love it because I know that people are going to show their true colors here.

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you don't need a special part of the forum for people to show their true colors. they already did that before

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Michaels Lover said:

you don't need a special part of the forum for people to show their true colors. they already did that before

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True.
But this place will make it obvious to others I hope.

AlwaysThere;4166716 said:

And quite frankly, I wouldn't expect a different response from you.

The fact that Tom Cruise didn't receive any backlash from his actions is disgusting. (Matter of fact, I had never heard of that incident to begin with. Same with the incidents with Steve Irwin and Hugh Jackman - they're all news to me!)

All of these man acted outlandishly irresponsible. None of them deserve defense for these actions in my view.

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MJ did not “deserve that backlash he got”, which was, by all accounts, hugely disproportionate as compared to all the other celebrities.

HIStoric;4166727 said:

Honestly I don't even know if that is dangerous. Without video footage or other photos, I don't know what the water's current is like in that photo, nor how deep it is which I think would factor into my opinion of what's happening there. I can't say anything, but I'm also not one to judge people as a whole off little one-offs like this (unless it's something drastic, like ya know, murder/rape).

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I think the act itself (dangling a child over a river) is dangerous, regardless of the importance of other parameters (such as, river’s depth, water’s current).

Of course we are not the ones to judge people as a whole (by such dangling acts), but that exact thing happened with MJ by getting a greatly unfair treatment (for one more time), mainly from people who wanted to profit from such high profile, showbiz cases (few publicity moments, big headlines, etc).

mj_frenzy;4166866 said:

MJ did not “deserve that backlash he got”, which was, by all accounts, hugely disproportionate as compared to all the other celebrities.

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He most certainly did.

Your justification for letting this incident slide stems from the fact that Tom Cruise and Steve Irwin did not receive the same treatment that Michael did. And I agree for the most part. Their actions are just as irresponsible and shouldn't be forgiven so graciously.

But that does not mean that Michael gets a pass. He acted stupidly and deserved to be called out for it.

Obviously certain people overstepped the situation, but anyone who questions his sanity and criticizes that action in particular is completely valid in my book. He earned most of this criticism and he had to deal with it.

This mentality from users here is rapidly starting to wear me down. I grasp that this is a fan forum, and harsh judgment being thrown at the focal point of it isn't exactly the most jubilant topic of discussion, but seeing such ridiculous defense mechanisms simply because this is Michael Jackson makes any sort of legitimate and/or intelligent discussion impossible.

Innocent comments that might be considered negative are met with a firing squad that almost always fails in their arguments. Why? Because it's Michael Jackson, and so few people can handle any valid criticism without jumping the gun and causing a fuss.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

I don't understand why people keep trying to justify MJ's actions by going "b-b-but this person has done this also". That doesn't somehow make it okay MJ did it lol.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

AlwaysThere said:

He most certainly did.

Your justification for letting this incident slide stems from the fact that Tom Cruise and Steve Irwin did not receive the same treatment that Michael did. And I agree for the most part. Their actions are just as irresponsible and shouldn't be forgiven so graciously.

But that does not mean that Michael gets a pass. He acted stupidly and deserved to be called out for it.

Obviously certain people overstepped the situation, but anyone who questions his sanity and criticizes that action in particular is completely valid in my book. He earned most of this criticism and he had to deal with it.

This mentality from users here is rapidly starting to wear me down. I grasp that this is a fan forum, and harsh judgment being thrown at the focal point of it isn't exactly the most jubilant topic of discussion, but seeing such ridiculous defense mechanisms simply because this is Michael Jackson makes any sort of legitimate and/or intelligent discussion impossible.

Innocent comments that might be considered negative are met with a firing squad that almost always fails in their arguments. Why? Because it's Michael Jackson, and so few people can handle any valid criticism without jumping the gun and causing a fuss.

Absolutely ridiculous.

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This is honestly how I feel also.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

^^ Everything becomes so very one sided.

"Michael Jackson is awesome!"
"Yeah, he is!"

That's the extent of most conversations around here. Never a bad thing, but acknowledging certain less-than-positive sectors and discussing why they do/don't matter is stimulating discussion and a very welcome change of pace.

But the reasoning behind all defense cannot be "it's Michael Jackson". Doesn't work.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

AlwaysThere said:

This mentality from users here is rapidly starting to wear me down. I grasp that this is a fan forum, and harsh judgment being thrown at the focal point of it isn't exactly the most jubilant topic of discussion, but seeing such ridiculous defense mechanisms simply because this is Michael Jackson makes any sort of legitimate and/or intelligent discussion impossible.

Absolutely ridiculous.

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AlwaysThere said:

"Michael Jackson is awesome!"
"Yeah, he is!"

That's the extent of most conversations around here. Never a bad thing, but acknowledging certain less-than-positive sectors and discussing why they do/don't matter is stimulating discussion and a very welcome change of pace.

But the reasoning behind all defense cannot be "it's Michael Jackson". Doesn't work.

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Your superciliousness has become really boring.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

mj_frenzy said:

Your superciliousness has become really boring.

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Agreed, I peeped their "I'm better then the rest of you attitude" quite awhile ago.
Any who, you're wasting your breath talking to them.
You should just put them on ignore, so they won't further annoy you. :yes:

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

mj_frenzy said:

Your superciliousness has become really boring.

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:yes: indeed!!

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

SmoothGangsta said:

I don't understand why people keep trying to justify MJ's actions by going "b-b-but this person has done this also". That doesn't somehow make it okay MJ did it lol.

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But do people keep harping on it over and over and over again - including that person's fans - for decades? That's the whole point, not "but he did it too".

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

mj_frenzy said:

Your superciliousness has become really boring.

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Pink Diamond Princess said:

Agreed, I peeped their "I'm better then the rest of you attitude" quite awhile ago.
Any who, you're wasting your breath talking to them.
You should just put them on ignore, so they won't further annoy you. :yes:

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I wouldn't consider it superciliousness as much as having the maturity to acknowledge the less-than-excellent things Michael Jackson has said/done rather than pretend as if they didn't happen and defend him at every turn, even if in certain situations he simply doesn't deserve it because no one else would get it.

Several other members here have that frame of mind, as well.

But of course the approach to this is, "He's STILL saying negative things about Michael Jackson? I don't want to debate with him further or talk to him or simply accept that he doesn't like a particular thing. I'm going to be largely hypocritical in some responses, question his fandom in others, and then block him because I don't feel like acknowledging another viewpoint and feel like making an elementary school decision."

This back and forth is so tiresome. I understand that myself and SmoothGangsta have been made out to be the bad guys on this forum. That's fine. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

But considering that this is a thread on Michael's faults and/or mistakes, you should expect to see quite a bit of negative comments. This is the one place where that Stan mentality should be left at the door. If some of us can be put on blast for spouting negativity in a positive space (i.e., the greater part of the forum), the exact opposite is true in here.

respect77 said:

But do people keep harping on it over and over and over again - including that person's fans - for decades? That's the whole point, not "but he did it too".

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People very rarely harp on it within this forum as far as I'm aware.

This is a thread regarding faults and things Michael did and/or said that were maybe not the wisest of ideas. Bringing that situation up in such a thread is almost guaranteed no matter what board you're on.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

respect77 said:

But do people keep harping on it over and over and over again - including that person's fans - for decades? That's the whole point, not "but he did it too".

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^^^^
This!
I agree.

HumbleBee;4166629 said:

One flaw Michael Jackson had was that he was just too good looking. So good looking to the point of making the ladies go crazy and faint.




¯\_(&#12484_/¯

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And here I thought he was flawless! My bad

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

I can't even take this thread anymore :hysterical:

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

I feel like I need to say something here-since I don't belong to any "stereotype Michael Jackson fan group"-I'm not a fanatical stan little girl that thinks Michael was Peter Pan personified and I'm not a nerdy, cynical type that knows all of Michael's unreleased music by heart. If anything, I belong to the old Jackson 5 kids that grew up with them, but even then I was the type of kid who had no teen idols and the people I was going crazy for were Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Duke Ellington who were all in their heyday when my parents were growing up. I just grew up with the Jacksons and had an attachment to and love for Michael from the get go and was fortunate enough to live to see him evolve into the mega superstar that he became. I related to him personally because I didn't know anyone else my age that had that same love for old Hollywood that I had-or the bios I was reading, or the music I was listening to.

But I think some of this back and forth has gotten out of hand-Let's use the Blanket on the balcony for example: NO ONE here has tried to justify in any way what Michael did with Blanket. No one has said "he wouldn't hurt a flea" or "he held his child so tight" or "he just wanted the fans to see his new baby"-anything like that. I think we have all used common sense and logic and agreed that it was a stupid move-and it's a stupid move that a lot of men do with kids. You don't see too many women tossing their kids in the air or holding them in front of crocodiles. What everyone has been pointing out is the backlash he received-yes, he should have been criticized. But did we really have to hear it over and over and over and over for years?

Just TONIGHT on my newsfeed, there was a story about Bigi because the paps caught him out yesterday and of course, it was side by side with a picture of Michael holding him at the balcony. This is 2016!!!And honestly, that's just one of the million things that we are all sick and tired of Michael being criticized for. Yeah, if he had done it again, I'd say call CPS, but it wasn't an everyday thing. This backlash is just insane.

I think this forum is necessary because maybe there are some legitimate fans out there with legitimate questions and maybe they can find real answers here. Not answers by spiteful trolls. Plenty of those out there.
Somebody asked about "why didn't Michael use his own sperm" and maybe on another site, he would have got some crazy answer. Here, we can point out-"how do you know he didn't? What are you basing that on. Just your eyeballs?" There are no DNA tests taken-no one has said differently except the tabloids and people who WANT to be the dad. Michael was in the delivery room with them, cut their cords, and his name is on their birth certificate. That we know for sure. Until I hear some FACT telling me otherwise, I just think he's the kids' father and that's all there is to it.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Don't we all have faults?! ... :rollseyes:

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Spontaneous I would say:

1.
That he often wanted to be someone else or at least someone better (Perfectionism) --> And I know I will get in trouble for that but he had a lot of plastic surgery (and not just because of health problems)... the question is is this really his fault? I would say partly... but also his father is to blame. But that's impossible to say what's really the true reason

2.
He was very naiv! sorry but he really was. He said many things in interviews about his relationship to children which wasn't clever to say in my opinion... Although I don't believe he was guilty!!! His behaviour was sometimes questionable especially in the last years (too much handholding, Interviews,...) ? maybe he was just to naiv... but again this is just an opinion

3.
Building his image in the 80s was a fault for me... Thinking he could play with the press and so on (if that rumour is true)

4.
Lying in interviews
Regarding his Plastic Surgery he lied... that was obvious. I know he was embarresed but what he Said about it was unrealistic...
He also should have said earlier that he has a skin disorder and maybe admitting that he may have bleeched parts to even out the splashes (this is just a theory... but turning white completly is very very very rare) --> yeah I know people didn't know much about the disorder back then but that would have been better than saying nothing


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Did MJ have ANY faults?

Deleted because I was completely missunderstood.

Just wanted to bring a extreme example to show you that we can never say about anyone that he or she has no mistakes.


First of all because we can't judge someone we don't know because of things we read about him or her! So we have no right to say he had this or that mistake. But we also can't say that he didn't have mistakes. And at this point I used the extreme example to point that out

And even if we know someone personal we cannot be sure if he or she has mistakes. Because we can't look in there heads. And again I brought the extreme example of a pedophile (because that allegation came up and I am sure he was innocent!!!!!!! Why don't you get that? ) but I wanted to point out that some people who are pedophiles are the nicest person you can imagine and never hurt any child ... because they know it would be wrong... and that was my extreme example. But I never wanted to say he was one! No! I don't believe it after all I read (but that's the point. I can't know. No one can. But that doesn't mean anything. Just an extreme example)

I hope my intention is clear now and I want to excuse to anyone that felt offended (even though I don't get why)

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

deleted

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Slave To The Rhythm just because you are willingly ignorant about the allegations doesn't mean others didn't do research and based their opinion on strong evidence. Do your research first and only then criticize.

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

I was expecting this answers weil actually I did hours of research about the allegations... and like I said before I believe he was innocent... otherwise I couldn't be a fan or listen to his music... and it's absolutely true that you should judge someone by evidence and nothing else! (Just want to mention here that I never judged him in any ways). All I wanted to say is that you can never know 100 % about someone else. Especially not about a celebrity ? and even though we all did hours of research we still don't know everything


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Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

and even after hours and hours of research... (yeah I know you will say I did wrong Research...) I believe he was innocent but I could never say he was 100% innocent (regarding to that he could have had an interest in children but never did something bad)


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Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

And afer re-reading my post I admit that it Sounded like I would believe he was a pedophile but no I don't! I just mean we Can never look in anyone's head...


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Did MJ have ANY faults?

InvincibleMJ said:

Slave To The Rhythm just because you are willingly ignorant about the allegations doesn't mean others didn't do research and based their opinion on strong evidence. Do your research first and only then criticize.

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never critized anything regarding the allegations ? Just said I questioned his behaviour with children sometimes or things he said in interviews... but that doesn't mean that I believe he was a pedophile...

I did much research about the allegations and believe he was innocent...