Madonna Appreciation thread - For fans

Muhammad Ali 1995

Bumping this as now we're all loved up in one music thread again. Hopefully this becomes the only Madonna thread we need!

I know Innuendo isn't that big a fan as far as I know? But Matty & Az have some interest as I hope others do too.

I'll start with ranking the 13 studio Madonna albums, as back in the 80's I think it was Madonna that got me interested in ranking.

1. American Life
2. Erotica
3. Hard Candy
4. Like A Prayer
5. Rebel Heart
6. True Blue
7. Bedtime Stories
8. Madonna
9. Like A Virgin
10. M.D.N.A
11. Ray Of Light
12. Music
13. Confessions On A Dancefloor

MattyJam said:

I have a funny relationship with Madonna.



My two best friends/biggest arch enemies (my brother and Tony R) are huge fans.

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I don't know why you talk about us like we're two separate people.

I wouldn't say Madonna had huge success post 2000. But yes, she's done well. Especially Tour wise.

She's benefitted by the fact she's so level headed which I think comes from not being a famous child.

Fiona said:

Madonna is one of my all time favorite artists alongside MJ.

Favourite albums are American Life, Erotica and Rebel Heart. I tend to find whenever her albums are less well received I usually love them and whenever she's going through a phase of massive commercial success, it's usually the albums I'm not so keen on.

Saw the Rebel Heart show at the o2 few years back... she's still a force to be reckoned with even approaching 60.

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Yeah they're 3 of my favourites also. American Life is stunning - Mother & Father, Nothing Fails, Easy Ride - all sublime.

Some crackin stuff on Rebel Heart too, but some strnge choices. The title track is brilliant but only on the ultra deluxe for some reason.

Ghosttown is her best single in ages & should have been lead instead of Living For Love which is good but Madonna by numbers.

Madonna? One of the greatest popstars of all time surely! The most talented? No. The most consistent? Probably not in terms of brilliant albums, but certainly in terms of brilliant material throughout those albums as well as time and again delivering brilliant live show/tour after brilliant live show/tour. The hardest working pop performer over one of the longest periods in a career where youth and contemporary relivance seem to be the only things the matter? Absolutely. She brings it time and time again, reinvents herself and works hard. I would say most of her albums offer stellar pop! It's very hard for me to rate her albums as my favourite is The Immaculate Collection which frankly is the greatest sequenced Hits collection I've ever heard -also the biggest selling hits album if memory serves.

01. Like A Prayer
02. Hard Candy
03. Erotica
04. True Blue
05. Rebel Heart
06. Like A Virgin
07. MDNA
08. Confessions On A Dance Floor
09. American Life
10. Music
11. Bedtime Stories
12. Ray Of Light
13. Madonna

This really is subject to change.

aazzaabb said:

Madonna? One of the greatest popstars of all time surely! The most talented? No. The most consistent? Probably not in terms of brilliant albums, but certainly in terms of brilliant material throughout those albums as well as time and again delivering brilliant live show/tour after brilliant live show/tour. The hardest working pop performer over one of the longest periods in a career where youth and contemporary relivance seem to be the only things the matter? Absolutely. She brings it time and time again, reinvents herself and works hard. I would say most of her albums offer stellar pop! It's very hard for me to rate her albums as my favourite is The Immaculate Collection which frankly is the greatest sequenced Hits collection I've ever heard -also the biggest selling hits album if memory serves.

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I think Queen is the biggest GH ever in UK & Eagles in America. It's biggest female one though.

It annoys me a bit when people say 'not the most talented' as it's normally the same that say 'it's down to reinvention' or keeping relevant.

Okay I wouldn't say she had MJ's genius. I wouldn't say anybody had. But if it was just down to sexuality & reinvention, she's have been done 25 years ago.

The reality is that she's kept making fantastic tunes that endure & last the test of time.

Fiona said:

I loved Rebel Heart but felt it was a bit too long.

Have you heard some of the Rebel Heart outtakes? Beautiful Scars and Addicted are better than some of the songs that made the album.

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Yeah I've got the ultra deluxe version that has those tunes. She could have made one great 11 track album, but at least she's giving value for money.

I love the tracks Rebel Heart, Ghostown, Body Shop, Heartbreak City, Devil Pray & Hold Tight.

Can't believe she chose Bitch I'm Madonna over Rebel Heart for a single.

MattyJam said:

i also love Intervention from American Life. Reminds me of a RHCP song.

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Yeah I see that. Maybe Snow or Desecration Smile?

Tony R said:

I think Queen is the biggest GH ever in UK & Eagles in America. It's biggest female one though.

It annoys me a bit when people say 'not the most talented' as it's normally the same that say 'it's down to reinvention' or keeping relevant.

Okay I wouldn't say she had MJ's genius. I wouldn't say anybody had. But if it was just down to sexuality & reinvention, she's have been done 25 years ago.

The reality is that she's kept making fantastic tunes that endure & last the test of time.

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I've never really rated her as a singer, but then many of the artists I like are not necessarily the greatest singers, their great communicators, and thats how I rate someone, their abillity to be able to communicate something to me, a lot of the time it's not even something I can explain, it's more a feeling. So what I should have said is 'She's not the most technically gifted' which is irrelevant in pop/rock anyway and to a large degree not really the point. With some of the artists I like I have a habit of putting a little disclaimer at the beginning of why I like them, probably from growing up and listening to different opinions; everyones a cynic.

I think with Madonna it's about everything. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. The synergy between what she does in the studio, working with people she's drawn to, her visual presentation, her elaborate stage shows and work ethic/ability to constantly evolve, her complete enthusiasim for every single album/tour set-list is incredible given she's long reached the point where she could simply tour on her 80's/90's catalogue of hits, but no, she keeps it fresh and exciting.

MattyJam said:

I never knew people considered Madonna a bad singer until I started using message boards and you hear these kind of complaints. I think unless you have a terrible singing voice, then a singer is only as good as the songs they're singing. Nobody complains that Paul McCartney isn't a technically gifted singer, so why do they bring it up with Madonna? Sexism?

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Possibly. So many artists I like aren't technically good at all but they've got a unique style. Heck, Dylan live fails to pronounce words! I like Madonna on her albums but live sometimes she slips into almost talking. That is why I rhetorically asked "The most talented?" In terms of technical ability no, but again, it's not about that, she hasn't proclaimed herself to be pavarotti and this is pop music.

Actually I should have just stated that I like her without trying to over analyse something that wasn't asked.

I don't know if it's sexism. I just think that with females everyone expects them to sound like Adele, or Celine Dion or Mariah Carey (when she ould still sing). But although there's a market for torch singers, with pop it's irrelevant to a degree.

And anyway, since she trained for Evita, Madonna's live voice has been really strong. Yeah, she'll never be Aretha Franklin. But at least she should be given some Respect.

You're welcome.

Also, like with MJ, take away all the frills (the controversy, live shows, great videos, attitude etc) and just listen to the music and you have some of the best pop songs of all time.

Like A Prayer
Holiday
Music
Don't Tell Me
Ray Of Light
Papa Don't Preach
Open Your Heart
Into The Groove
La Isla Bonita
Express Yourself
Vogue
Justify My Love
Take A Bow
Live To Tell
Hung Up
Borderline
Lucky Star
Crazy For You


and that's just a handful of singles...

Tony R said:

I don't know if it's sexism. I just think that with females everyone expects them to sound like Adele, or Celine Dion or Mariah Carey (when she ould still sing). But although there's a market for torch singers, with pop it's irrelevant to a degree.

And anyway, since she trained for Evita, Madonna's live voice has been really strong. Yeah, she'll never be Aretha Franklin. But at least she should be given some Respect.

You're welcome.

Also, like with MJ, take away all the frills (the controversy, live shows, great videos, attitude etc) and just listen to the music and you have some of the best pop songs of all time.

Like A Prayer
Holiday
Music
Don't Tell Me
Ray Of Light
Papa Don't Preach
Open Your Heart
Into The Groove
La Isla Bonita
Express Yourself
Vogue
Justify My Love
Take A Bow
Live To Tell
Hung Up
Borderline
Lucky Star
Crazy For You


and that's just a handful of singles...

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Thats exactly what she brings! Stellar pop classics! And by the way, I agree with what your saying and that was the point I was trying to make.

Finally, Rebel Heart DVD and CD gets a release date. September 15th.

Looks like it will be great as will include all the acoustic extra songs.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...bel-heart-tour-concert-filmlive-album-w482029

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...t-tour-concert-film-heads-to-showtime-w446181

Madonna announced her new concert film, Rebel Heart Tour, will be released September 15th. The live film originally premiered on Showtime in December 2016 and was taped during Madonna's Sydney, Australia concerts in March 2016.

Bitch, She's Madonna: The Genius of the 'Rebel Heart' Tour
Sentimental, unapologetic show comes 30 years after her first MSG performance

The film includes bonus content such as live and behind-the-scenes unreleased footage. The career-spanning set list featured hits from throughout Madonna's discography, as well as reinterpreted renditions of classic tracks, acoustic versions of "Like A Prayer," "Secret" and "Don't Tell Me" and her first ever in-concert performances of "Take a Bow."

Madonna fan Aldo Diaz designed Rebel Heart Tour's cover art, while the singer's frequent collaborators Danny Tull and Nathan Rissman co-directed the film. Rebel Heart Tour will be released as a digital download, DVD/Blu-ray and a standalone CD featuring highlights from the concert.

Fiona said:

At last. I've been waiting on this.

Did you go to see any of the RH gigs Tony?

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Unfortunately not. I was in Golden Circle for MDNA though!!

I've seen the show on Showtime & it seemed really good on the whole. I love the RH album and the fact she did so many extra special songs she'd never done before or for a long time.

Fiona said:

I love the Confessions tour blu-ray! They did a superb job with that one, I'm hoping the RH show was filmed in a similar way, to really capture the excitement of the show.

I saw it at the O2, first time I've seen a show of hers in the flesh since Drowned World. It seemed lighter and airier than the denser and darker Drowned World Tour with it's goth punk, industrial, and cowboy aesthetics (I loved all that), but the setlist was fantastic.

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I think this will unfortunately follow the way MDNA was shot. Lots of cutaways, slow motion shots and massive crowd noise. Still looks amazing though. Great mix of over the top theatrics as well as some more intimate moments.

By Travis M. Andrews July 6, 2017 Washington Post

It seems like a relationship between rapper Tupac Shakur and pop superstar Madonna at the height of their careers would have been fodder for the world’s tabloids. Instead, it was mostly rumor. And, as with so much of Tupac’s life, many of the specific details were lost with his death in 1996.

In place of a firsthand account, we’re left with an oral history pieced together by those who knew the couple. Madonna herself hasn’t been particularly forthcoming about the relationship, aside from confirming it and offering a few scant details in 2015.

However, a recently surfaced letter, written by Tupac to Madonna, offers a rare insight into the late rapper’s life. It appears to be a break-up letter, but it hinted at just how calculated aspects of Tupac’s character were, particularly with regard to race.

The letter was addressed simply to “M” and was dated Jan. 15, 1995, which coincided with his time at New York’s Clinton Correctional Facility for sexual assault. It was first published Wednesday by TMZ with four sections redacted. Rolling Stone said it confirmed the letter’s authenticity.

It will be up for auction with a starting bid of $100,000 at the Gotta Have Rock and Roll sale, which is scheduled for July 19 to 28. It was uncertain how the letter wound up in circulation.

In it, Tupac seemed to admit to breaking up with Madonna because she was white.

“For you to be seen with a black man wouldn’t in any way jeopardize your career, if anything it would make you seem that much more open and exciting,” Tupac wrote. “But for me at least in my previous perception I felt due to my ‘image’ that I would be letting down half of the people who made me what I thought I was.”

“Like you said, I haven’t been the kind of friend I know I am capable of being,” he wrote, adding, “I never meant to hurt you.”
By his “image,” Tupac was likely referring to his status as an activist and social critic focusing on the perils faced by America’s black communities through his music.

“I’m not saying I’m gonna change the world, but I guarantee that I will spark the brain that will change the world,” he once said.

His parents were both Black Panthers, and he was named for “Túpac Amaru, a South American revolutionary who led an uprising against his imperial Spanish colonizers,” according to HipHopDX.

His lyrics were often tinged with anger at the systematic oppression of black Americans. On “Words of Wisdom,” for example, he rapped:In the letter, Tupac also alluded to being hurt because Madonna in an interview said “’I’m off to rehabilitate all the rappers and basketball players’ or something to that effect.”

“Those words cut me deep seeing how I had never known you to be with any rappers besides myself,” he wrote. “It was at this moment out of hurt and a natural instinct to strike back and defend my heart and ego that I said a lot of things.”

“It no longer matters how I’m perceived,” he wrote. “Please understand my previous position as that of a young man with limited experience with a extremely famous sex symbol.”

Though the note was conciliatory — he offered “my friendship once again, this time much stronger and focused” — it took an ominous turn at the end.

“I felt compelled to tell you … just in case anything happened to me,” he wrote, adding, “Please be careful Madonna. Everyone is not as honorable as they seem. There are those whose hearts bleed with envy and evil. They would not hesitate to do you harm.”

Tupac was killed in a drive-by shooting the next year.

Madonna hasn’t said much about her relationship with Tupac, though she did once tell Howard Stern that he was responsible for her now infamous interview on “The Late Show with David Letterman” during which she used profanity, sexual innuendo and ignored several of Letterman’s questions.

“I was in a weird mood that day,” Madonna told Stern of the interview. “I was dating Tupac Shakur at the time, and he had got me all riled up about life in general. So when I went on the show I was feeling very gangster.”

The Tupac letter is so interesting. I never knew they were together, I kind of followed Tupac in 1995/96 when I really dug gangsta rap, even though I liked his more positive stuff like Dear Mama and Keep your head up.

Madonna would date him though, she loved men of all types and stripes and would have been attracted to Pac's bad boy image, although I suspect in his heart Pac was a really nice and sensitive guy who used the gangsta image as part of the record selling thing. The letter if real shows a real sensitivity on Pac's part and makes out Madge was being a bitch with him.

My favourite album is Erotica, so adventorous and bold and some well written songs (Bad Girl, Deeper and Deeper, Erotica, Thief of Hearts etc) and really is a grower. Like Tony I love her classic tracks and love me some 80s Madonna. True Blue and Like a Prayer. No filler at all. Madonna and Like a Virgin are good too, but have filler on them, still Borderline is a perfect song and one of my favourites.

My absolute Madonna favourite song is Justify my Love (She reached Perfection between Prayer and Erotica) and Vogue is right up there too.

Not so crazy about post Music Madonna (Music is a good album), American Life is dreadful, Confessions is Okay, but suffers from sameness and Hard Candy is surprisingly good. I confess I have not heard MDNA but have Rebel heart and find it hit and miss. Ghost Town and Icon are top notch and Bitch I'm Madonna is funny, but really can't get into the rest yet.

^ American Life is her best album mate!

Hard Candy is possibly my favourite from her post-Music era. Rebel Heart yeah hit and miss but some great tracks on it, especially the Super Deluxe. The hate and backlash it got was harsh in my opinion, and predictable.

Tony R said:

I think this will unfortunately follow the way MDNA was shot. Lots of cutaways, slow motion shots and massive crowd noise. Still looks amazing though. Great mix of over the top theatrics as well as some more intimate moments.

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Incredible tour and the only time I've seen her live. But the tour DVD/Blu Ray was way over the top. It's way too edited, ridiculously so. The fan-shot amatuers on YouTube capture the brilliance of the tour much better IMO.

aazzaabb said:

Hard Candy is possibly my favourite from her post-Music era. Rebel Heart yeah hit and miss but some great tracks on it, especially the Super Deluxe. The hate and backlash it got was harsh in my opinion, and predictable.

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Problem with Rebel Heart is that it suffered from poor quality control. It could have been an amazing 11 track album, her best for years. But some of teh best songs (notably the title track) were only on the deluxe versions.

Also, like MDNA, poor choice of lead Madonna-by-numbers singles. She should have led with a ballad. Ghosttown is her best single in years and best ballad since Take A Bow, but it did nothing. Then ****ing releasing 'Bitch I'm Madonna'? Jesus.

But some fantastic songs on there. I'd encourage anyone to stream Rebel Heart, Ghosttown, Devil Pray for starters.

The Tour is out in September I believe, massively late and if it's like the one that was on Showtime, then unfortunately again it's very over-edited. Looks like it was an amazing show though with lots of extras. She performed one very special different track each night, including Take A Bow, the only time she's sung it on tour so I hope that's included. Also hopefully the full 'Tears Of A Clown' show.

Tony R said:

Problem with Rebel Heart is that it suffered from poor quality control. It could have been an amazing 11 track album, her best for years. But some of teh best songs (notably the title track) were only on the deluxe versions.

Also, like MDNA, poor choice of lead Madonna-by-numbers singles. She should have led with a ballad. Ghosttown is her best single in years and best ballad since Take A Bow, but it did nothing. Then ****ing releasing 'Bitch I'm Madonna'? Jesus.

But some fantastic songs on there. I'd encourage anyone to stream Rebel Heart, Ghosttown, Devil Pray for starters.

The Tour is out in September I believe, massively late and if it's like the one that was on Showtime, then unfortunately again it's very over-edited. Looks like it was an amazing show though with lots of extras. She performed one very special different track each night, including Take A Bow, the only time she's sung it on tour so I hope that's included. Also hopefully the full 'Tears Of A Clown' show.

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I really like the MDNA album, actually that along with Hard Candy are my 2 favourites from Music onwards. You make a great point about Rebel Heart; there's a great 11 track album in there! And I can't understand why one of its best tracks 'Rebel Heart isint on the standard album of it's namesake?

There's a few reasons to it I think, there's a need to stay relevant and put more of what appeals to a younger audience and there's also a need to give the long term core fanbase a few great reasons to buy the super deluxe. At the end of the day the tracks can be bought online via streaming so track sequencing on a modern pop album isn't as important today as it once was. Her fans will buy everything, the casuals pick and choose.

Again, with the live DVD's she's staying relevant with all the over-editing, but there's really no need as her concerts are among the best out there and can stand on their own without all the added hype graphics and edits. She should scale that back a lot. Perhaps she wants the DVD to be it's oen thing, it's own statement, seperate from the tour but it's very distracting. I don't the dvd of MDNA does justice to how great the live show was. But again, there's always YouTube for that and she puts her heart into every project she does.

aazzaabb said:

There's a few reasons to it I think, there's a need to stay relevant and put more of what appeals to a younger audience and there's also a need to give the long term core fanbase a few great reasons to buy the super deluxe. At the end of the day the tracks can be bought online via streaming so track sequencing on a modern pop album isn't as important today as it once was. Her fans will buy everything, the casuals pick and choose.

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The issue is the reviews, Madonna has a lot of casual fans who will buy if they hear it's a great album (e.g. Ray of Light got amazing reviews & led to big sales), if RH would have got better reviews (it got good ones but not great) based on a great 11 track album then it would have led to better sales.

But I maintain that similar to YRMW for Invincible, if the lead single would have been better it would have made all the difference. Also you can't fall off stage to a ballad!

Tony R said:

The issue is the reviews, Madonna has a lot of casual fans who will buy if they hear it's a great album (e.g. Ray of Light got amazing reviews & led to big sales), if RH would have got better reviews (it got good ones but not great) based on a great 11 track album then it would have led to better sales.

But I maintain that similar to YRMW for Invincible, if the lead single would have been better it would have made all the difference. Also you can't fall off stage to a ballad!

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Was Rebel Heart her Invincible? The same thought crossed my mind about the lead single. The whole ageism thing happened also and yes, falling off the stage and her meltdown moment made everything a bit "out there". I look forward to watching the DVD though. You have to give it to her, Album, Tour, DVD! Every time!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">A P O L O G i Z E...........&#9829;&#65039; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/stevenkleinstudio?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#stevenkleinstudio</a>. Text by Rupi Kaur &#128591;&#127996;. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/thefutureisequal?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#thefutureisequal</a> <a href="https://t.co/LmRsC3RRf0">pic.twitter.com/LmRsC3RRf0</a></p>&mdash; Madonna (@Madonna) <a href="https://twitter.com/Madonna/status/1016314375181914113?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Snoop talking about Madonna & Tupac on Howard Stern (August 31, 2018)

Santa Baby (1987)

teaser for upcoming album "Madame X"

Favorite Madonna Songs

Angel * Pretender * Where's The Party * Sidewalk Talk (with John Jellybean Benitez/Catherine Buchanan)

Angel (by Madonna and Stephen Bray)
Pretender (by Madonna and Stephen Bray)
Where's The Party (by Madonna, Stephen Bray, Patrick Leonard)
Sidewalk Talk (by Madonna)

Catherine Buchanan passed away in the early 2000s from a brain tumor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7TnfylF9lI