Dieter Wiesner-Channel on YouTube

Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Yeah, but in 1999 or so (I think MJ wanted to buy Marvel in late 90's not in 2003) Marvel wasn't worth $4 billion.

I think it was that time period.

Michael's plans to buy Marvel started in 1999 and continued to 2003. It was reported that the asking price was $1 billion in 1999. Buying Marvel was the main part of all Weisner's plans. In his book and in Sullivan's book Weisner says the asking price was $1.4 Billion in 2002 and Michael wanted to give it but couldn't because Sony wouldn't let him use Sony/ATV as a collateral. so he wanted to get $1.4 billion from some financial institution by using his catalog. We all know the Sony/ATV loan situation - that it was already heavily leveraged and Michael's share wasn't even worth $1.4 billion back then. So sorry but given everything we know about his finances, it's unrealistic to expect him to be able to pay/find $1.4 billion for Marvel.

Same for Neverland II. I mean the first neverland staff, maintainance and mortgage wasn't paid for years - proving Siegel's letter that Michael did not have much cash at hand. so how could he get and build a second, bigger, better neverland?

In my opinion Michael would have benefited more from a restructuring of his debts, assets more than trying to invest tens of millions to other projects. that's me. I think Wiesner played Michael's weaknesses. when people were saying serious stuff, Wiesner was like "we'll buy Marvel, we'll build this and that".
 
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Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

^^it might have been Michael also focusing on the bigger picture. I saw a video of him talking about it and he was brimming over with ideas of things they could do for Marvel.
He prob thought if he could just scrape the money together it would pay itself back and make huge money. He was right. It went from 1.4 b to 4 billion in just a few years.
But definitely a crazy risk.
Wiesner probably just fed those dreams.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

The video made me quite sad, in that it was a reminder of how Michael tried to see the good in people, and wanted so badly to trust. The list is quite long of those who were not worthy of his trust, and took advantage.

That video looks like Michael was reading from a script. Which he probably was. Did Michael script it? Did Weisner? See above, about people not worthy of his trust. ..
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

^^it might have been Michael also focusing on the bigger picture. I saw a video of him talking about it and he was brimming over with ideas of things they could do for Marvel.
He prob thought if he could just scrape the money together it would pay itself back and make huge money. He was right. It went from 1.4 b to 4 billion in just a few years.
But definitely a crazy risk.
Wiesner probably just fed those dreams.

you are absolutely correct that Marvel was a good investment as seen from increase in value. However I don't think it was right time or right thing to do for Michael. Think this - what if rather than pursuing a dream he focused on restructuring his debt and assets in 2003 like his old time team wanted? Perhaps the situation would be better in 2009 and he wouldn't have need to perform and still be alive today.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Maybe so. Michael is a creative dreamer, unlike most of us who have to think about the logical realistic side of life.
That's why I'm so very sorry that so many people like Weisner and Thome and on and on got their hooks in him.

I read once that in Michael's 30 yr solo career (1979-2009) he spent the first 15 yrs making exceptional decisions and choices and the last 15 making the worst ever.
I think they were talking musically, but I sometimes agree with this statement as it goes for him personally and professionally.

Of course, hindsight is always...
 
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Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

The interesting events I was mentioning was a letter from Barry Siegel. He sent a letter to Michael saying the money from the loan on Sony/ATV was running out and financially he would be in a bad situation. Siegel wanted a meeting with Michael, Branca, McClain, Modabber, Green to discuss the options. At that time Wiesner was talking to Michael about some of his ideas such as MJ Universe, Marvel etc that some people call as "hot-air projects" - meaning impossible to happen. So Michael hired Wiesner and partner and then fired his rest of the team. Then none of the projects ever happened (and couldn't happen to start with) and money started to go missing as Legrand testified. An overall mess.

When was that letter sent, and is this the time when Branca resigned saying that MJ had surrounded himself with extreme shady people, meaning Dieter W and the other guy?


So maybe he's planning to bring a law suit against the estate for unpaid management fees-like everybody else-and he's disputing that Michael was on drugs when he agreed to it. This would be a first step, I guess, by posting a very coherent video.

I'm not that familiar with him, but it seems like all his recent money making endeavors recently have been failing.

I think that window has closed an ages ago. He should have put in claim if he was owned money.
 
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Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

you are absolutely correct that Marvel was a good investment as seen from increase in value. However I don't think it was right time or right thing to do for Michael. Think this - what if rather than pursuing a dream he focused on restructuring his debt and assets in 2003 like his old time team wanted? Perhaps the situation would be better in 2009 and he wouldn't have need to perform and still be alive today.

I think he should have focused on making money like he did in the '80 and early '90. That would be the best thing he could do and then pay the debts/loans, NOT restructuring it. Restructuring and interests is what made him to be near bankruptcy. He could have done so much more, he had so much great music just sitting in the vaults, he could have just pick 10 of them each year and release an album that would sell 10 MIL copies easily. He could have performed smaller tours, not world tours of 100 dates - like 10 big concerts (especially in US) every year. And all his debts would disappear without any restructuring and he would have enough money to invest in new things, including Marvel. But it's his life, I'm just saying, not judging.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

MJ had too big a heart for this cruel world.

He trusted people - and people let him down again and again...
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Power of attorney is a written document that requires a signature. So lazy or not, Michael or not, everyone has to go through the paper work.


But why does Michael say in this video:

"Rather than writing you a letter I have found this format (video) to be most efficient for what i wish to communicate"

If he knew that a written contract had as well to be done or already was done, why would he say this.

Maybe he later didn't remember signing contracts because there simply were none.
As messy as everything went down in that time, it wouldn't be impossible.

Unlike other recordings we know he doesn't sound sedated to me in this video.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

When was that letter sent, and is this the time when Branca resigned saying that MJ had surrounded himself with extreme shady people, meaning Dieter W and the other guy?

January 22, 2003. Wiesner wrote Michael got it on January 27. Hired and gave power of attorney to Weisner and Konitzer on January 31, 2003. and fired all of his old team (Branca, Siegel, Green etc.) on February 4, 2003. This is when siegel resigned from Executor position. This is also when Weisner asked Legrand to investigate Branca and others. Funny that Legrand didn't find anything against Branca but found Wiesner and Konitzer stealing close to a $1million from Michael. Branca was rehired, the power of attorney was changed/limited. Legrand testified to this.

Branca says he resigned in 2006.

This is the letter

January 22, 2003

Michael Jackson

Dear Michael:

I just received a phone call from Evvy indicating that Michael La Perruque needs more petty cash in Florida. The expense of keeping your entourage in Florida is very high. Although we have covered the hotel to date, I understand you are currently planning on moving from a room @ $975 per night to the Presidential suite @ $2500 per night. Please be aware that all of your funds for the month of January have now been depleted. There is no cash available to send to you. Expenses this month have been very high because of legal and other contractual arrangements, as well as packing and shipping of equipment and transportation for personnel to Florida.

I am very concerned that your entire subsistence is based upon drawing down on the Bank of America loans. These loans will soon be exhausted and there will be no funds available to support your lifestyle. It is my understanding that you have now decided not to tour or play the shows in Las Vegas. The television special should not provide any net income to you after expenses. With no additional income being earned, it has now become clear that you will no longer be able to support your lifestyle. We must get together at your convenience and I am willing to meet you anywhere to discuss this situation. I would suggest that Zia Modabber, John Branca, John McClain and if you desire Trudy Green attend this meeting. But in any case, it is extremely important that we get together to discuss the specifics of this and how you will maintain your lifestyle.

I cannot overstate the importance of us getting together or the extent to which this problem has grown. Please call me or have Evvy arrange for us to get together.

Sincerely,

[Barry Siegel]

I think he should have focused on making money like he did in the '80 and early '90.

As you can see from the above letter he didn't want to work or at least perform. Also personally I don't see what they did in regards to Michael's debt between 2003-2009 as restructuring. They went and got bigger and bigger loans. That's not what I suggest as restructuring.

But why does Michael say in this video:

"Rather than writing you a letter I have found this format (video) to be most efficient for what i wish to communicate"

If he knew that a written contract had as well to be done or already was done, why would he say this.

Maybe he later didn't remember signing contracts because there simply were none.
As messy as everything went down in that time, it wouldn't be impossible.

Unlike other recordings we know he doesn't sound sedated to me in this video.

there's a written power of attorney, it's been mentioned in a lot of sources (books, deposition, testimony). and it's written document, it needs to be signed and dated and sometimes even need a notary approval, that's the law. With a power of attorney, the person can act in your place/ benefit, sign for you and they would include a copy of the power of attorney document to demonstrate that they have the power of attorney and sign in your place.
 
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Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

The irony when the Estate/Branca-targeting folks always say "MJ sued Branca for embezzlement!!!" when infact they neither do understand MJ was being lied to and manipulated to fire and exchange most of his legal team back then nor do acknowledge there was zero evidence against Branca...
Just like these fans don't understand and acknowledge the will is authentic and legal.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Nice to see unreleased footage, yet it's very sad to watch also.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

This is all very alarming, and sad, and one can only imagine what was going on behind the scenes? Ivy, do you know how long Weisner had POA? I mean, before Branca was rehired? One thing that comes to mind is that -- even as Tohme said in an interview that he was doing -- a wall was built around Michael and it's possible communications were filtered as to who would be allowed access to him (mail, and maybe phone) and who was not? The Siegel letter is very to-the-point, and demanded immediate action, but instead Michael "killed the messengers?" i.e. firing them? And then rehiring them?

Then, as we know, things got exponentially worse, as the accusations/arrest came the following year, in 2004. And then of course the trial, its conclusion, and Michael's moving to Bahrain. We know that after Bahrain, he bounced around Europe and then settled in Ireland, where he seemed to be optimistic and in good shape. I wish he had NEVER returned to the U.S., though. He seemed happy in Ireland. There then were negotiations about a Las Vegas show, that might have improved his finances. But that fell through. Enter -- TOHME. And we know the rest, or as much of it as we can know. .. .
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Thanks to bashir and co mj had no real chance to do anything interms of business or performing. i dont believe in fate and paths are set out but when you look back over the last twenty years it was one thing leading to another like everything was staged to end the way it did.
 
Here's Dieter's take on this - from his book (translated by Google, sorry, no time to do better):

In January 2003, Tommy Mottola was fired from his post as director of Sony. It was an ignominious withdrawal. Employees of the firm took him right out of his own office, and then out of the building and escorted out to the very street.

Of course, I realized that a new collaboration with Sony was almost impossible, especially because Michael did not want it anymore. But he was still bound by the contract. Therefore, in November of the same year, a greatest hits album «Number Ones» was released with a new song One More Chance, written by a successful music producer R.Kelly. Later, it was planned to shoot a music video of this song. But when Sony wished to provide the same stage set which had been used for Smooth Criminal for shooting, Michael was disappointed. He received consents for the shooting from some of the luxurious hotels in Las Vegas, primarily from the «Green Valley». They were willing to pay huge sums to Michael, just to have their destination chosen for filming. But according to the agreement, Michael had to fulfill the requirements imposed by Sony.

Then, in January 2003, Michael received a mail from LA, marked "strictly confidential, in person." It was a letter from his accountant who worked with John Branca, Michael's lawyer. It arrived on January 27 late in the evening in Miami Oriental hotel in Florida.

All these years that I spent with Michael, during travel, I usually occupied a room next to his suite. But as he was often active at night, listening to music or composing, I began sometimes to do otherwise. In rare cases, I took a room on the floor below, just to sleep. That was what I did that night in Miami Oriental, when Michael received the letter that shook him so badly.

As I learned later, at about five o'clock in the morning he ran through the corridors on his floor, looking for me. Dressed in a blue dressing gown and surgical cap, he knocked on all the doors in a row and asked for me. In the end, he found me. Still not really awake, I let him in, and we sat down on my bed.

He started crying from deep disappointment, and then handed me the letter. I marked down the time on the envelope, 5:40, and began to read. I could not believe my eyes and could only shake my head. My drowsiness vanished, and I noticed that Michael was watching me as I read, waiting for my help. His accountant wrote:

6ixxyw.jpg


Unthinkable. They reproached his lifestyle. Superstar, whom had earned them millions. This had to be the first, this was something new. So disrespectful.

For normal people, of course, the price for the suites might seem astronomical. But at the top of the show business, it was nothing compared to the amounts that an artist like Michael Jackson makes over the years. They were unhappy even with travel spending of the employees - an inevitable expense item for any superstar.

Because of this reproach, Michael felt that he was pressured financially. It scared him and forced him into performing which he - as was well known - hated and resisted. (Performances meant selling his talent for television shows and concerts in Las Vegas - so that their income source does not dry out, and the money flowed nicely, and all was well again - that's what they imagined!

We had come to Miami to arrange a presentation of a charity project. Michael wanted to help children with cancer, collect donations for them. He auctioned off his personal belongings, such as handwritten lyrics, and revenue was supposed to aid organizations and various clinics.

Michael was especially struck by this letter because it was written by people with whom he had worked closely. And now they literally put a gun to his head. He was deeply shocked.

I tried to calm Michael, but he was very angry. He cried. I opened the balcony door to let in some fresh air, and again sat down beside him and hugged him. I put the letter with envelope on the table as far from us as possible. He kept looking at them, as if he could not believe that they existed.

That letter, to him, symbolized the ruthlessness of the music business. People who wrote it wanted to induce him to a certain behavior. The letter, received by Michael on January 27, 2003, was the beginning of a certain process, which would later make him agree to 50 This Is It concerts. Michael was supposed to start making profit for the system again, as he called it, regardless of the circumstances. He knew that money always went first.

Michael long ago experienced financial difficulties, primarily because of contracts that were drawn against him. He wasn't earning as much money as he had used to, but he never thought that he was bankrupt. He was too ashamed to admit it publicly. Michael decided to start all over again. He wanted to show them all what he was capable of - in a whole new way.

We sat on the bed in my room. The sun already rose outside. My attempts to reassure Michael gradually came to fruition, I even thought that I saw some relief in his eyes. Michael wanted to get away from Sony and promised me from that moment to look only forward. I was able to quietly take him back to his room, where he lied down exhausted and slept all morning.

---

Michael decided to change the "system" - in the beginning of February 2003, he wrote a letter of cancellation of employment to all former employees and distributed it first by fax and then by mail and in person, right from Miami. One of the major recipients was Michael's former quarterback John Branca.

With this message in February 2003, Michael's former attorney John Branca was dismissed immediately:

25i0o6t.jpg


Similar letters went to his former employees Barry Siegel and Brian Wolf. To Trudy Green, who was his music manager, and Howard Kaufman, director of marketing, he wrote:

69gy2g.jpg
 
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Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

No matter what was going on. Wiesner was, has been and certainly is no person to trust ever. He's trying to make 'more' money with Michael.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Wow. Wiesner's book explains, that he led Michael to believe that Siegel and his attorneys were persecuting him in some way, rather than telling him the truth about his own finances! This shows how Wiesner manipulated Michael into turning on those who were trying to HELP him. I'm so sorry that Michael believed him, at least for awhile. I'd say that Wiesner's own words dug him a hole, and surely there is a special place in hell for people like that?
 
Korgnex;4073210 said:
The irony when the Estate/Branca-targeting folks always say "MJ sued Branca for embezzlement!!!" when infact they neither do understand MJ was being lied to and manipulated to fire and exchange most of his legal team back then nor do acknowledge there was zero evidence against Branca...

there has always been some power play going on. Not limited to Wiesner but for someone to be hired someone needs to be fired. I do think many people used some stuff to their advantage. I mean look to this example. On one hand you have old advisors who say "there's no cash, this is serious, we need to talk" and then on the other hand you have a new person who is saying "we can buy Marvel, we can buy this $80 Million Vegas property and build a new neverland". So it's not that surprising that Michael went with Wiesner but that didn't do him any favors in my opinion. Because we know in 2009 Michael was still in the same alarming situation Siegel warned him about in 2003. No or little cash at hand, bills, salaries, mortgages not being paid and still using Sony/atv loan for income but that was levereged to the max. At the end it meant Michael having to go on a tour or declare bankruptcy. All of which could have been different if these issues were addressed in 2003.

Autumn II;4073217 said:
Ivy, do you know how long Weisner had POA? I mean, before Branca was rehired?

Hard to say exact timing. Branca was back by November/December 2003.

This is what Legrand said though - only relevant parts not full transcript

Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you ever learn whether or not Mr.Jackson had given a power of attorney to either of these two people?

A. Yes, I believe he did.

Q. Did that concern you?

A. Yes.

Q. Why?

A. I was concerned that they could abuse that power or exceed the authority of the power.

Q. Did you do anything about that?

A. Yes. I spoke to some of the other lawyers that were representing Mr. Jackson, and we agreed that we would ask Mr. Jackson to revoke the power of attorney.

Q. Was that done?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, at some point in time did you become suspicious of Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weizner?

A. Yes.

Q. Why did you become suspicious of Konitzer and Weizner?

A. I became concerned that they were in a position to divert funds. I was concerned about the — having appropriate documentation for tax purposes for Mr. Jackson and his companies. And in general, I — I began to disagree with some of Mr. Konitzer’s decisions on matters and felt that he was making bad decisions, I guess is the way to say it. So I — I became suspicious of his motives and actions.

Q BY MR. MESEREAU: You mentioned you were suspicious of financial matters involving Konitzer,right?

A. Yes.

Q. Please explain.

A. Well, ultimately there was another attorney involved who was serving as the escrow agent for some funds, and I asked him for an accounting in order to get Allan Whitman up to speed on some disbursements, payments, payables, et cetera. And that accounting came from this attorney, and it indicated that there had been about $900,000 – I don’t remember the exact number, but it was many hundreds of thousands of dollars that had been disbursed to Ronald Konitzer or Dieter Weizner. I mean, the combination was in hundreds of thousands of dollars. And I then — I spoke to a couple of the lawyers that, you know, were providing representation, and I ultimately wrote a letter within, you know, a couple of days of learning of this. I wrote a letter to Mr. Konitzer asking him to account for this money.

Q. Was the amount you were concerned about approximately $965,000?

A. Yeah, without seeing it today. But that sounds like approximately the right number, yes.

Q. And where did that amount come from, if you remember?

A. I believe the source of that funds was the FOX — some of the FOX payments with regard to the “Take 2” video production.

Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Why did you think Konitzer and Weizner had diverted $965,000 from Mr. Jackson?

A. Because the report I got from this other lawyer showed those disbursements.

Q. And when you saw the record of those disbursements, what did you do?

A. I spoke to several of the other lawyers that were representing Mr. Jackson, and agreed that I should write a letter to Mr. Konitzer asking him to account.

Q. Did you ever find out what he had done with the money?

A. No, I was terminated by Mr. Jackson as counsel within, I don’t know, two weeks, maybe, of that letter to Mr. Konitzer.

See? when they were suspected they fired Legrand.

The Siegel letter is very to-the-point, and demanded immediate action, but instead Michael "killed the messengers?" i.e. firing them? And then rehiring them?

Siegel wasn't hired back until 2009. But I agree with "kill the messengers" part. That's probably what prompted Siegel from resigning as an Executor of the will.

morinen;4073222 said:
Here's Dieter's take on this - from his book (translated by Google, sorry, no time to do better):

Unthinkable. They reproached his lifestyle. Superstar, with which they themselves have earned millions. This has not happened, it's something new. And disrespectful.

Because of these accusations, Michael felt that he had been pressured financially. They caught up with him and forced him to fear for performances that he - as he was known - and who always hated resisted.

Michael especially struck by this letter because it was written by people with whom he had worked closely. And now they literally put a gun to his head. He was deeply shocked.

Michael long ago experienced financial difficulties, primarily because of the drawn against him contracts. He earned not so much money as they used to, but he would never have had the idea that he was bankrupt. He was too ashamed to admit it publicly. Michael decided to start all over again. He wanted to show them all what a - a whole new way.

Thanks. I have read Wiesner version before. In hindsight I don't think the letter was disrespectful, it was realistic. Wiesner himself acknowledges Michael's financial problems and how he refused to acknowledge the financial problems. Hiring Wiesner gave him that out in this instance as well. I still think perhaps acknowledging the issues early and trying to resolve them could have been better and could have avoided the events of 2009.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

I hate to say it because I adore Michael to death but he had poor judgement on people's true character, he trusted way too much and let a bunch of crocks to come into his life. :(
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Wow. Wiesner's book explains, that he led Michael to believe that Siegel and his attorneys were persecuting him in some way, rather than telling him the truth about his own finances! This shows how Wiesner manipulated Michael into turning on those who were trying to HELP him. I'm so sorry that Michael believed him, at least for awhile. I'd say that Wiesner's own words dug him a hole, and surely there is a special place in hell for people like that?

I don't think he led Michael to believe anything - it looks like Michael didn't want to perform and was pretty much in denial all on his own. But Dieter certainly used the situation in his favor - to enable Michael and ally himself with him by using his weakness against "the enemies" (people who brought in harsh reality).

That's the definition of a "yes"-man.
 
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Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

I hate to say it because I adore Michael to death but he had poor judgement on people's true character, he trusted way too much and let a bunch of crocks to come into his life. :(

That and I also think he sometimes preferred to bury his head in the sand instead of facing reality - and whoever told him what he wanted to hear was "in" and whoever did not tell him what he wanted to hear was "out".
 
morinen;4073232 said:
I don't think he led Michael to believe anything - it looks like Michael didn't want to perform and was pretty much in denial all on his own. But Dieter certainly used the situation in his favor - to enable Michael and ally himself with him by using his weakness against "the enemies" (people who brought in harsh reality).

respect77;4073234 said:
That and I also think he sometimes preferred to bury his head in the sand instead of facing reality - and whoever told him what he wanted to hear was "in" and whoever did not tell him what he wanted to hear was "out".

I agree with you both.

This is exactly what Ron Burkle said at MJ Inc book

By this point, however, Jackson had left for Bahrain, ditching Burkle’s personal finance regimen in the process. “He just needed someone there to tell him no, and there wasn’t anybody there to tell him no,” the billionaire says. “And if you told him no, he handled it pretty well. But as soon as someone told him yes, he was gone.”

I think Michael himself didn't want to acknowledge any financial problems. He needed people to tell him the truth. But in instances where someone said "no" (no you don't have money) and someone said "yes" (you can buy spend whatever you want), he went with "yes" people.
 
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Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Yes, of course, Michael bears responsibility. There was once a time when Michael signed all checks over fifty dollars, but those days were long gone. I see that Wiesner wasted no time in diverting Michael's money -- to himself. That was a pervasive pattern with others who wormed their ways into the inner-circle. The list is very long.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Interesting posts.

Michael said he was always working. Unfortunately, if Michael was not on stage performing, it was equated to not working by many. The opportunities presented to Michael almost always consisted of performing and after 30 years, I can understand Michael preferring not to do so.

I personally have always viewed Michael as a dreamer, a prideful man, a stubborn man, and a compassionate man for better or worse. He was very aware many sought to relieve him of his hard earned gifts and take advantage of his generosity because he wrote about it with his brothers on the Destiny album. As predicted and understood, so many proved him correct.

It would have been grand if he could have been advised how to reinvent himself while maintain the image he worked so hard to establish and offered less confining opportunities instead of proposing performances time and time again. It would have been grand to see him co-write and/or produce songs/albums for those that sought to work with him for example. It simply was not meant to be.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

I don't think he led Michael to believe anything - it looks like Michael didn't want to perform and was pretty much in denial all on his own. But Dieter certainly used the situation in his favor - to enable Michael and ally himself with him by using his weakness against "the enemies" (people who brought in harsh reality).

That's the definition of a "yes"-man.

That and I also think he sometimes preferred to bury his head in the sand instead of facing reality - and whoever told him what he wanted to hear was "in" and whoever did not tell him what he wanted to hear was "out".

It's interesting reading a thread with like minded people (and no arguments) about the reality of MJ's choices and finances throughout the 2000's. I haven't read Michael Jackson Inc. yet, but the more I read about this kind of stuff on the forum, the more interested I am. MJ's choices along with his obvious addiction(s) became so confusing at that time that I stopped paying attention. I didn't even know about a "Second Neverland?" It's unfortunate to see his genius be so swiftly manipulated and disregarded. I remember watching the Immortal Documentary, and Greg Phillinganes mentioning when he chose to go on tour for Bad I believe, and stay in the same hotel, that the fans would call out "Michael" all day and all night. He essentially mentioned how MJ was surrounded 24 hours a day by fans and yes people, and that no human being is made to withhold that much fame and power. I thought he hit that pretty accurately.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Imo mj was never able to have or create a b.s radar so to speak. He was never given the chance to have the normal social relationships that we all have as kids,teenagers and young adults were we learn about social relationships and learn the lessons of being hurt or used which leads us to be able to emotionally mature where we learn to see peoples motives and learn who to trust etc. Imo mj was totally stunted in that because he had no chance to experience such things as a young person. to me this was a big factor in how mj ended up surounded by so many sleezes and never seemed to learn. he had no clue who to and who not to trust. it seemed to be a case of better the devil you know in many cases.
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Imo mj was never able to have or create a b.s radar so to speak. He was never given the chance to have the normal social relationships that we all have as kids,teenagers and young adults were we learn about social relationships and learn the lessons of being hurt or used which leads us to be able to emotionally mature where we learn to see peoples motives and learn who to trust etc. Imo mj was totally stunted in that because he had no chance to experience such things as a young person. to me this was a big factor in how mj ended up surounded by so many sleezes and never seemed to learn. he had no clue who to and who not to trust. it seemed to be a case of better the devil you know in many cases.

Agree with this. He had little opportunity to interact with kids his own age -- it was just his brothers and sisters. Michael idealized children as "innocent," but had probably never seen the bullying that can go on, or the conflicts that kids must learn to work out with one-another, or the fact that some kids DO lie. I think he lacked the radar that almost everyone else has, that some people simply are not trustworthy. He tended to believe what others told him . . . .
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Agree with this. He had little opportunity to interact with kids his own age -- it was just his brothers and sisters. Michael idealized children as "innocent," but had probably never seen the bullying that can go on, or the conflicts that kids must learn to work out with one-another, or the fact that some kids DO lie. I think he lacked the radar that almost everyone else has, that some people simply are not trustworthy. He tended to believe what others told him . . . .
that's true but only one side of the coin... on the other side they will be developing paranoia because they might miss the bs-radar but they very much do notice and feel the pain when they're betrayed.

Keeping kids away from other kids is making them also easier to be regulated longer, influenced longer and directed longer by parents. Often 'these kids' do break "free" sooner or later but keep the pattern to trust someone else kind of 'too much' and slip in all different kinds of dependencies again... yep it makes them easy victims.

But I also think in this special case of Michael Jackson things got so big so fast when Michael entered adulthood... it was probably anyways hard to find the right ppl to trust... so he just kept changing them?! Going with the yes ppl is telling about some Jackson genes I'd say. You can't deny where you're coming from and who brought you up... sure you can work on it but then again it will shine through from time to time?! It's just when you're an adult you're responsible!
 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Going with the yes ppl is telling about some Jackson genes I'd say.

I don't think it's genetics - more like learned behaviour. The Jackson family do seem to have this tendency of buring their heads in the sand over problems. I will never forget when Katherine was asked about Michael's rehab in 1993 during the AEG trial and she said she did not want to know about that because she did not like bad news. That was so shocking to me. Bad news or not, but that is your son, for god's sake! And another one that sticks out to me is that interview that LaToya gave a couple of years ago in which she was asked wheter she and Michael ever talked about that crap she pulled on him in 1993 and her answer was "No, that's not the Jackson family way." Something like that. Here @2:45

 
Re: Dieter Wiesner-chanel on youtoube

Wow. Wiesner's book explains, that he led Michael to believe that Siegel and his attorneys were persecuting him in some way, rather than telling him the truth about his own finances! This shows how Wiesner manipulated Michael into turning on those who were trying to HELP him. I'm so sorry that Michael believed him, at least for awhile. I'd say that Wiesner's own words dug him a hole, and surely there is a special place in hell for people like that?

All of these crooks that called themselves Michael's managers displayed similar pattern.
Dieter,Tohme got rid of all the people around Michael that could question their own actions, and Raymone and Randy were funnelling money for their own use, just like Dieter and Tohme.

At least Michael was on the road to recovery and tried to take control of his business by himself as we remember from the notes brought in during the AEG trial:
Hire accountant I trust now and lawyer I want to meet him
 
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