On Behind the Mask

adamschoales

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This for me is one of the standouts of the Michael Album. It's such a classic Jackson track that's infectious beat and rhythm makes you want to get up and dance.

It was also considered to be one of the greatest unreleased tracks prior to its release on michael:
http://www.metafilter.com/82928/Behind-the-Mask-Michael-Jacksons-rarest-recording

My questions are these (bearing in mind I doubt anyone will have definitive answers):

1) how complete was the track prior to McClain's "finishing" of the track. I'm going to assume he made the silly decision of adding the live element to the track but there are other additions I'm assuming he's made

which leads me to

2) one of the biggest complaints my girlfriend has with the song is all the "hee-ee-ee-hee- hee"s in the track. She said after her first listen "it's like they just added those all afterwords and someone got a little too liberal with the copy/paste button" and I am inclined to agree. In fact an article from the time the album came out made note of it being the song to feature "the largest number of jackson's trademark hee-hee". And it's true. It's an absurd number. Do we really think Michael would have had that many in there? I would imagine a couple here and there and that McClain just kept adding more and more... either way its distracting and I think lets the song down a little

3) anyone know what the "demo" actually sounded like? how much filling out did this need? Is it safe to assume it was a well produced and more or less finished demo (along the lines of the invincible demos on The Ultimate Collection - more like an OUTTAKE than a demo) along the lines of Fly Away: fully complete ready to present to the artist (this is of course presuming that the version of Fly Away included on Bad SE wasn't remixed/cleaned up/finished by Michael FOR the SE release)? I'd be interested to see what state the track was in prior to McClain stepping in. Somehow I have a feeling he simply added the Live aspect and a few other little touches, but I'm not sure.

4) How different is the track ORIGINALLY from the Philiganes version? You compare the Philiganes version to the Jackson version and they are VERY different. The Philiganes version is MUCH MORE 80s. Do we think that Michael's original version was the same and McClain simply pulled the vocal track and created a new musical arrangement based on the original track, or is the musical arrangement we're hearing on the Michael version the way Michael intended it and Philiganes was the one who changed the arrangement for HIS version? (I hope I'm making sense here). It stands to reason that the demo version and the final version by Philiganes would change quite a bit. Go back to "Fly Away". Michael's version and Rebbie's eventually released version differ quite a lot. Then again, take "Fall Again" - the Glen Lewis version sounds very similar to michael's demo (granted Michael didn't write the song) with more instrumentation over top (for me this is how I feel the Behind the Mask track went: Michael's original demo and then just a little more production was added for the final release). But again, I don't know.

Okay. Chew on those for a bit. Hopefully someone will know...
 
Unfortunately I don't think any of us can answer these questions as nobody has heard BTM in it's original state.

I agree with you about it being one of the best tracks on Michael though. His vocal delivery is killer on this song!
 
2) one of the biggest complaints my girlfriend has with the song is all the "hee-ee-ee-hee- hee"s in the track. She said after her first listen "it's like they just added those all afterwords and someone got a little too liberal with the copy/paste button" and I am inclined to agree. In fact an article from the time the album came out made note of it being the song to feature "the largest number of jackson's trademark hee-hee". And it's true. It's an absurd number. Do we really think Michael would have had that many in there? I would imagine a couple here and there and that McClain just kept adding more and more... either way its distracting and I think lets the song down a little

i'm glad finally someone else mentions this.
i think the live concert atmosphere is a bad copy & paste job...
but what really ruins the song for me is this "hee-ee hehe".
not only because its too often, but because its slightly OUT OF KEY/TUNE. damn...

McClain must be deaf or something...
someone seriously should tell him to leave Michaels music alone
and leave it to the professional producers.
 
The "hee-hee-hee" parts are great. I could be wrong, but I reckon they were like that on the original 80s recording.
 
The "hee-hee-hee" parts are great. I could be wrong, but I reckon they were like that on the original 80s recording.

I agree...I love those parts...I absolutely love the song the way it is...could have done without the live crowd, but I don't mind it...
 
adamschoales;3291087 said:
2) one of the biggest complaints my girlfriend has with the song is all the "hee-ee-ee-hee- hee"s in the track. She said after her first listen "it's like they just added those all afterwords and someone got a little too liberal with the copy/paste button" and I am inclined to agree. In fact an article from the time the album came out made note of it being the song to feature "the largest number of jackson's trademark hee-hee". And it's true. It's an absurd number. Do we really think Michael would have had that many in there? I would imagine a couple here and there and that McClain just kept adding more and more... either way its distracting and I think lets the song down a little

Well, I'd personally say BTM is the best song the album, but I agree with these point...I don't think the original version Michael created could have had that "hee-ee-ee-hee' part as much as it did, I dislike it.....but who knows..nobody has heard the original..

Also, the random live performance thing added in...I have no clue why he would randomly add that in..lol...It doesn't fit at all though..

I actually thought Michael had completed Behind The Mask? So it was much more than a Demo...From Wikipedia

"Quincy Jones heard Yellow Magic Orchestra’s version during the Thriller sessions, and brought it to Michael Jackson, Michael had recorded the song, adding an extra melody line and a few extra lyrics. Legal battles prevented the song to be released on Jackson's sixth studio album, Thriller, and remained unreleased for over 25 years"
 
I actually think the live crowd noise at the beginning adds to the atmosphere of the opening.

The bit in the middle is kind of unnecessary but it's subtle enough to ignore.

Whilst I do wish they wouldn't meddle with his unreleased music, some fans just love to nitpick at every decision the estate makes.
 
For me, his vocals are so kick ass and stellar, they make up for anything I'd have to complain about lol
 
Also, the random live performance thing added in...I have no clue why he would randomly add that in..lol...It doesn't fit at all though..

Its more the fact that there's no consistency. Make it a fake live track, fine, worked for Benny and the Jets. But its the way it just randomly fades out and quickly too then randomly shows up again a the end.

Whilst I do wish they wouldn't meddle with his unreleased music, some fans just love to nitpick at every decision the estate makes.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I also hated the Thriller 25 remixes that Michael HIMSELF approved.
 
For me, his vocals are so kick ass and stellar, they make up for anything I'd have to complain about lol

:clapping:

I've yet to read a single post from you where I don't find myself agreeing with every word.
 
For me, his vocals are so kick ass and stellar, they make up for anything I'd have to complain about lol

IMO Great song, with 2 things that prevent it from being perfect ;)
 
My questions are these (bearing in mind I doubt anyone will have definitive answers):


which leads me to


QUOTE]

I have so called "original version".The vocals are pretty much the same but there are no "hee, hees" only hiccups.The only "hee" you can hear (3 of them) are at 4:33.The orchestration on original version is so 80's, especially the intro of about 30 sec.Somebody was complaining about the saxophone, but it is on original version too.

I am not familiar with Greg's version.
 
:clapping:

I've yet to read a single post from you where I don't find myself agreeing with every word.

His voice carries so much melody, soul, richness and energy it almost doesn't need any music...I feel the same about Slave..
 
My questions are these (bearing in mind I doubt anyone will have definitive answers):


which leads me to


QUOTE]

I have so called "original version".The vocals are pretty much the same but there are no "hee, hees" only hiccups.The only "hee" you can hear (3 of them) are at 4:33.The orchestration on original version is so 80's, especially the intro of about 30 sec.Somebody was complaining about the saxophone, but it is on original version too.

I am not familiar with Greg's version.

MAN! What I would give to hear this!

For those not familiar:
Greg Philiganes Version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRHBTGuFSd8
Eric Clapton Version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N8GbyF4OcM
 
My questions are these (bearing in mind I doubt anyone will have definitive answers):


which leads me to


QUOTE]

I have so called "original version".The vocals are pretty much the same but there are no "hee, hees" only hiccups.The only "hee" you can hear (3 of them) are at 4:33.The orchestration on original version is so 80's, especially the intro of about 30 sec.Somebody was complaining about the saxophone, but it is on original version too.

I am not familiar with Greg's version.

Turns out this track was actually the fan remix of the Greg Phillinganes version with a fan filtered acapella from MICHAEL layered over top...
 
I think the "Michael" version of Behind the Mask uses an early demo version as Michael added new lyrics to the very original.

Listen to Greg's version, and there are lyrics that aren't on the version we have on Michael, but Greg is not credited as a writer. Same for Eric Clapton's version. They must have come from Michael!

And it makes sense, since Michael is clearly fumbling some of the lyrics (which the estate says are "I don't want you if you can't answer" but does ANYONE hear that?!), and he doesn't even sing "s you" when he sings "stab"! Of course, that gives it flair.

So I think the version we have was built around an early demo (possibly with the hee-hees in it as a rough guide throughout the tape) and therefore a different, fuller, more 80s synth-pop version that was meant for Thriller is still in the vaults.
 
Being McClain is an Estate Executor and Producer of BTM I dont think its likely we'll hear the original demo.
 
I think the hee-hee-hee bits are the work of MJ. I read somewhere that MJ added an extra hook, which I'm guessing is the hee-hee-hee.

I would like to hear the original MJ version though.
 
I think the hee-hee-hee bits are the work of MJ. I read somewhere that MJ added an extra hook, which I'm guessing is the hee-hee-hee.

I would like to hear the original MJ version though.


Well he clearly recorded them, but I think the track's absolute littering of them is NOT his work.

IMHO.
 
I absolutely love this song. The first time I heard it, I teared up when the live part came on. Just hearing him talk and be goofy made me really sad :( But it's a great song, my favourite on Michael :D
 
Heres something I have thought of and found.

For a start, John recorded a whole new backing track for the song, I am guessing the song was too dated sounding, but its more likely that John is just a gimp!

The "dun-dun-dun-da" seems extremely similar to vocals used in the Scream Classic Club Mix, these could have easily been thrown into Melodyne and messed about with.

Now Thirdly and this is the biggy, I figured why they used crowd noise. Now the only parts with the random crowd noise are parts that can be used to overlap on vocals, using the "knockout" method to generate DIY acapella vocals, I am thinking John finished the mix and this point came up..........how to solve it? Grab your copy of Bucharest 92!
 
Heres something I have thought of and found.

For a start, John recorded a whole new backing track for the song, I am guessing the song was too dated sounding, but its more likely that John is just a gimp!

The "dun-dun-dun-da" seems extremely similar to vocals used in the Scream Classic Club Mix, these could have easily been thrown into Melodyne and messed about with.

Now Thirdly and this is the biggy, I figured why they used crowd noise. Now the only parts with the random crowd noise are parts that can be used to overlap on vocals, using the "knockout" method to generate DIY acapella vocals, I am thinking John finished the mix and this point came up..........how to solve it? Grab your copy of Bucharest 92!

Interesting theory, but I honestly believe the "dun-dun-din-dow-dow" part is from the BTM recording session. If you listen to the DIY acapella, the voice sounds like a very young MJ doing his lower-voice that he sometimes used. Similar to that used in Burn This Disco Out, Get on The Floor or WBSS when he does the guitar riff during the intro. MJ had this kind of nasal sound to his voice during the early-to-mid 80's.

Another theory could be that that beatbox on BTM is from that time, Mj kept it unrealsed, and decided to re-record that beatbox and use it in Scream, which is why it sounds so similar.

On another note, Has anyone noticed that during the bridge, the Sax is playing the meldoy of Funkadelic's "One Nation Under a Groove" ?

:D
 
I am friends with someone very "in the loop" with people at Sony, and he told me that the "ee-hee-ee-hee"'s in the song weren't recorded for that particular song. They are from an early '80s demo titled "Fire is the Feeling" (according to him).
 
Now Thirdly and this is the biggy, I figured why they used crowd noise. Now the only parts with the random crowd noise are parts that can be used to overlap on vocals, using the "knockout" method to generate DIY acapella vocals, I am thinking John finished the mix and this point came up..........how to solve it? Grab your copy of Bucharest 92!

I think you are right on! thumz up Birchey
 
I think BTM is perfect.

I think MJ himself would be very satisfied with the result.
 
I think BTM is perfect.

I think MJ himself would be very satisfied with the result.

yes it is perfect....especially the fan crowd part...that part is perfect...the best part of the song....are u crazy ?
 
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