IJCSLY Single with "Don't Be Messin' Round" bonus track [Discussion]

[respect77]

THAT Teddy Riley died a long time ago. The Teddy Riley we have now is nothing compared to that old Teddy Riley. With that said I'l like Bill Bottrell to help with any potential future Dangerous anniversary release. People seem to forget he was also one of the geniuses that made Dangerous the great album it is.

Black or White, Give In To Me, Dangerous and many other songs as well... need I say more?

He's probably the most underrated producer Michael worked with. Everybody seems to be focusing on Quincy Jones, the 90s Teddy Riley and the incredibly overrated Darkchild. Shame...

I agree. After what he has done on the "Michael" album I would not want Teddy Riley to touch Dangerous 25, sorry. Bring on Bill Bottrell!

[xthunderx2]

They should release 3 versions of DBMA:

1. Original track- no major changes to it...weather it's finished, partially finished, or not even close to finished. It's probably a bit dated so it probably could use some production done to it to clean it up. Release it as is so we can at least hear what MJ was going for.

2. Updated track- like Hollywood Tonight...just for the love of God don't add so much stuff to it, that it follows trends rather then sets them.

3. Remix- Even though I despise remixes, making a decent remix for the dance clubs, or radio airplay would be a smart choice.

yup I agree...it would be a beautiful thing to here the track in its original state....maybe they could do all 3 of your idea's......maybe put them on ONE cd release...just the three of them...ya know to take us through the steps of how the song changed from beginning to the end process. fans being able to hear the originality of Michael's work is always a treasure.

[OnirMJ]

THAT Teddy Riley died a long time ago. The Teddy Riley we have now is nothing compared to that old Teddy Riley. With that said I'l like Bill Bottrell to help with any potential future Dangerous anniversary release. People seem to forget he was also one of the geniuses that made Dangerous the great album it is.

Black or White, Give In To Me, Dangerous and many other songs as well... need I say more?

He's probably the most underrated producer Michael worked with. Everybody seems to be focusing on Quincy Jones, the 90s Teddy Riley and the incredibly overrated Darkchild. Shame...

Bill Bottrell is amazing. My favourite song ever, Who Is It, is co-produced by him. I didn't forget him. I don't agree with you that Darkchild is overrated though. My point is that those producers (including Bill) that originally worked with MJ on the album should be finishing the songs (if that is neccessary).

[KingMikeJ]

Bill Bottrell is amazing. My favourite song ever, Who Is It is co-produced by him. I didn't forget him. I don't agree with you that Darkchild is overrated though. My point is that those producers (including Bill) that originally worked with MJ on the album should be finishing the songs (if that is neccessary).

I understand what you are saying but after what Teddy Riley did to songs on the Michael album (especially Hollywood Tonight) I do not want him finishing any of Michael's work. As he has shown with HT, he prefers to change the existing work to suit his taste rather than finish it the way he thinks Michael would have.

Quincy Jones fought to have Billie Jean removed from Thriller's tracklist. That is enough evidence to show he is not a genius producer without the help of Michael. On top of that, after what Quincy has said about Michael recently makes me sick and to have him working on a new MJ album would also make me sick.

[OnirMJ]

I agree. After what he has done on the "Michael" album I would not want Teddy Riley to touch Dangerous 25, sorry. Bring on Bill Bottrell!

If we ignore fake vocals on the 2 songs and that stupid bridge on Hollywood, I think Teddy did great job. I'm talking about production of course, not the whole songs. If he had real vocals those songs would be great in my opinion. Production on Breaking News and Hollywood is amazing. Monster is well produced too. Too bad that he agreed to work on the fake songs, but he still knows how to produce a hit record.

I don't think there will be Dangerous 25. They said that Bad 25 will be the last re-release.

[Pentum]

Production is amazing on Hollywood Tonight? It's really bad.

1. Throughout the song, you can hear the old HT demo filtered in the BG (you can especially tell right after the intro when the beat kicks in)
2. The bass sucks
3. After the bad bridge, there is still that effect on MJ's voice which disappear after he sings "jeaaaans"
4. What KingMikeJ said about it

Only nice thing I like about it is the horns and guitar. Other than that, it's just not good. Nothing compared to the original demo.

[OnirMJ]

Production is amazing on Hollywood Tonight? It's really bad.

1. Throughout the song, you can hear the old HT demo filtered in the BG (you can especially tell right after the intro when the beat kicks in)
2. The bass sucks
3. After the bad bridge, there is still that effect on MJ's voice which disappear after he sings "jeaaaans"
4. What KingMikeJ said about it

Only nice thing I like about it is the horns and guitar. Other than that, it's just not good. Nothing compared to the original demo.

I only heard 20 seconds of the original demo. I like the original bass, but I like Teddy's bass too. Michael wanted that "smooth muted bass". I agree about effect on MJ's voice.

[SoCav]

Production is amazing on Hollywood Tonight? It's really bad.

1. Throughout the song, you can hear the old HT demo filtered in the BG (you can especially tell right after the intro when the beat kicks in)
2. The bass sucks
3. After the bad bridge, there is still that effect on MJ's voice which disappear after he sings "jeaaaans"
4. What KingMikeJ said about it

Only nice thing I like about it is the horns and guitar. Other than that, it's just not good. Nothing compared to the original demo.

Amen! Though I still much prefer the strings in the demo over the horns because I feel they fit the theme of the song much better.

I also think the mixing was terrible. The bridge was clearly too long (and that is even disregarding the whole changing the lyrics and story thing). By the time you got to the end of it, the song was devoid of energy. The ending also went on too long.

I only heard 20 seconds of the original demo. I like the original bass, but I like Teddy's bass too. Michael wanted that "smooth muted bass". I agree about effect on MJ's voice.

Well, the bass sounds muted, but to me not in a nice way. Teddy equalized the hell out of it and you only hear the absolute lowest frequencies. This causes the bass to have no character and sounds dreadful, imo. Which is a shame, because it is a great bassline.

[respect77]

If we ignore fake vocals on the 2 songs and that stupid bridge on Hollywood, I think Teddy did great job. I'm talking about production of course, not the whole songs. If he had real vocals those songs would be great in my opinion. Production on Breaking News and Hollywood is amazing. Monster is well produced too. Too bad that he agreed to work on the fake songs, but he still knows how to produce a hit record.

I think Teddy did a really poor job with Hollywood Tonight.

[T.N.A.]

Only nice thing I like about it is the horns and guitar. Other than that, it's just not good.

That was actually Neff-U's idea. He was the first one to work on the song but Sony didn't feel it was quite 'it', so they brought in Teddy Riley to murder it, though he still left Neff-U's horns in it...

Teddy Riley basically destroyed HT. In my opinion, the demo was way better...

Same for Lenny Kravitz.

[OnirMJ]

That was actually Neff-U's idea. He was the first one to work on the song but Sony didn't feel it was quite 'it', so they brought in Teddy Riley to murder it, though he still left Neff-U's horns in it...

Teddy Riley basically destroyed HT. In my opinion, the demo was way better...

Same for Lenny Kravitz.

I think Lenny Kravitz did great job on Another Day. The instrumentation on the Demo version was poor, too much synths. And the final version is so powerful, so hard-rock and it works well with MJ's angry voice.

I agree that Neff-U should have been the one to finish Hollywood Tonight. But don't agree that Teddy "destroyed" and "murdered" it. I look at Hollywood Tonight as a remix and I like it very much, it's my favourite song from the album.

And how can you tell that the Demo was "way better" based on that 20 sec snippet?

[T.N.A.]

And how can you tell that the Demo was "way better" based on that 20 sec snippet?

The overall feel of it, the sound(s) or the emotion it was conveying? Also, I may or may not have heard more than just 20 seconds of it, so that helped too.

I think Lenny Kravitz did great job on Another Day. The instrumentation on the Demo version was poor, too much synths. And the final version is so powerful, so hard-rock and it works well with MJ's angry voice.

I disagree. That track is pop-rock at its best. Not to mention that Lenny replaced the main guitar riff (as heard in the chorus) from a 'hard' one, to a funky one. That's not rockier, if you ask me.



Also here's the bit of the article about HT I mention a few posts back:

The new single of "Hollywood" is truer to this last version than the album cut. Of course, Jackson had intended to keep working on it, which is why his estate and Sony originally brought in two of Jackson's close collaborators, Theron Feemster (aka Neff-U) and Teddy Riley, to try to finish it. Feemster had the first crack and came up with some solid mixes; yet Sony didn't feel it was quite right and subsequently gave Teddy Riley a shot. Riley's production, which retained much of Michael and Brad's demo (including the intro and outro) and elements of Feemster's mix (including the fantastically funky guitar riff), became the album version.

here's the full thing: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vo..._b_834857.html

[SoCav]

I think Lenny Kravitz done great job on Another Day. The instrumentation on the Demo version was poor, too much synths. And the final version is so powerful, so hard-rock and it works well with MJ's angry voice.

To each their own of course, but for me it is the opposite. The riff Kravitz added just does not have the same power as the original. It also kinda detracts from the vocals, where the original complemented them. Again, just my opinion of course.

I agree that Neff-U should have been the one to finish Hollywood Tonight. But don't agree that Teddy "destroyed" and "murdered" it. I look at Hollywood Tonight as a remix and I like it very much, it's my favourite song from the album.

And how can you tell that the Demo was "way better" based on that 20 sec snippet?

You can still tell a lot about the instrumentation based on those 20 seconds we have of the demo.

-The beat is much more of a typical MJ beat (louder snare, more groove). It packs much more of a punch.
-The bass sounds much cleaner.
-The instrumentation is more stripped down.
-It features the kind of ominous strings that MJ used in several songs, in line with the dark message of the song, rather than the exuberant horns.
-No effects on MJ's vocals
-The mix is much cleaner. Everything sounds kinda muddled in Teddy's mix.

To me, all of these already make the demo much better. I also agree with T.N.A. that it just conveys a different emotion. As I already said, the demo feels much darker, whereas the original sounds more like a very nice but somewhat more generic uptempo banger. And, of course, I prefer hearing the songs the way MJ left them anyway.

[marebear]

Will the song be on the bad re-release cd? If some people can't get the song it would be nice to have it on the cd.

[Billyjeanplxiv]

Ive noticed the effect on Michael vocals after the bridge, and the weird leftovers when the beatboxing starts. Hollywood sounds nice, but you can hear the mistakes. The bass should have been recreated...not EQ'ed. And we should have got the demo.