Feedback Requested: Bad25 Sales. Why low sales?

ivy

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We are hearing that the sales for Bad 25 anniversary release was lower than expected. There's a request to gather feedback from the fans especially about why they didn't buy Bad 25 as well as what could be done to improve the sales numbers.

So we are asking you to provide feedback to the interested parties. Please explain
- your reasons to not buy / buy Bad 25
- any criticism
- any improvements

Reminder : We realize that Michael album / Cascio songs could be a reason and if so please mention it. However do not turn the thread into an authenticity debate. Similarly if Estate and/or Sony related issues affected your purchase mention it but again please remember not to turn this thread into an argument about them.

Thank you for your feedback.
 
I thought Bad 25 was great! I bought the Deluxe Collectors Edition, the Deluxe Edition, the regular CD, the vinyl LP, and the DVD. Soon the vinyl 3 LP version.

My suggestion as a person in business, is that they did not market Bad 25 enough, and in the right ways for most of the general public to know about it.

A few months back I even emailed John Branca for permission about a free screening of the Wembley concert at a college in Los Angeles for promotional purposes, but that never happened.

It is all about getting the word out to people who would not normally know about products like Bad 25, and focusing the marketing efforts on the demographics that will buy the product. For example, promotional events at colleges.

Just my idea off the top of my head.
 
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My only criticisim is the bad picture quality of the Wembley dvd. They could have choosed better quality concert. They should release hq Bad Tour 88-89 concert and audio doesn't have to be 5.1. Otherwise Bad 25 was amazing release. New songs were great and the Deluxe Edition was great too. I hope they will release more concerts in the future.

Edit: Movie theater release of Michael's concerts could boost the sales. Bad Tour concert from the film reels could be great
 
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I am really shocked that the numbers are low, since just reading the fan base forum would say that a lot of people were looking forward to and bought it. Personally, since funds are tight and I already bought the album in 87, the cassette tape (that I play all the time in my car) in 87, and the 2001 Special CD version I didn't invest in the whole package. I DID of course get the Wembley concert.
I would have loved to have the CD Live, and the demos (I went crazy for the demos on the Special OTW and Thriller CDs), but they didn't sell those separately. I'll probably go back and buy them later.
I still would like to thank the Estate for issuing the DVD separately-for people like me that could only buy a little.
 
Based on input from someone involved in the BAD25 project, the target audience was the fans primarily. Unfortunately, if the fans are not receptive enough to projects such as this one, it may very well affect the desire to release future projects...such as a Dangerous25 or 3D HIStory or future documentaries.

If anyone has particular suggestions for attractive promotion, that would be welcome input I think. Personally, a theatrical release for Spike's doc would have been terrific, but maybe it didn't happen because sales were lower than expected for the BAD25 set.

Do we really want nothing more than what is already out? No more anniversary re-issues or unreleased material?

I believe the interested parties will consider well reasoned input from anyone willing to offer it.
 
PS to my previous post on this: personally I don't care for re-mixes-even when authorized by the artist-so I did not care for Thriller 25 at all-and didn't want the CD with the remixed BAD songs even though I was dying to listen to those demos. I do think they should have played the Spike Lee doc in ALL big cities-LA and NYC aren't the only cities with MJ fans-TII did very well in the theatres.
 
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I do wish the estate would compile us a list of all the things they have like unreleased songs, demos and footage. With that we could help them with what they should put in future releases and albums. Or what the estate should do is what was mentioned in that other topic about the possibility of having a "Michael Jackson Collector Label" which will be primarily based to fans and they wouldn't have to waste there time and money promoting things that won't sell to non-fans.
 
I thought they did a great job overall with BAD 25, the product. I did buy the Deluxe & Collectors.

But marketing-wise, they dropped the ball: one of the reasons for low sale, is poor & ineffective marketing. Non fans or fans not on social medias had no idea of the package. They tried to duplicate MJ's old marketing tricks...but those are dated & now ineffective.

They need to find a new way to reach out people: TV commercials aren't as effective as in the '80s because ratings for TV shows have fallen to their lowest ever. Also, don't forget many bought that same album 3 years ago. So the general public may not be interested in getting the same CD for 4 new "demos".

They should have released a song like I'm so blue....

BAD 25 is the 4th CD released in 3 years. Too much.....in a short period of time. MJ used to release a CD every 5 years...since he passed, Sony/Estate have released more CDs than MJ did between 1979 & 1989.

Lastly, re-airing an MJ original commercial would have grabbed attention...the Pepsi mash up was...not good.

ETA: was there any BAD 25 CD commercials when BAD 25 the documentary aired on ABC? I dot recall seeing a single commercial
 
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I thought they did a great job overall with BAD 25, the product. I did buy it Deluxe & Collectors. But marketing-wise, they dropped the ll: one of the reasons for low sale, is poor & ineffective marketing. Non fans or fans not on social medias had no idea of the package. They tried to duplicate MJ's old marketing tricks...but those are dated & now ineffective. They need to find a new way to reach out people: TV commercials aren't as effective as in the '80s because ratings for TV shows have fell to their lowest ever. Also, don't forget many bought that same album 3 years ago. So the general public may not be interested in getting the same CD for 4 new "demos". They should have released a song like I'm so blue.... BAD 25 is the 4th CD release in 3 years. Too much.....in a short period of time. MJ used to released a CD every 5 years...since he passed, Sony/Estate have released more CDs than MJ did between 1979 & 1989. Lastly, re-airing an MJ original commercial would have grabbed attention...the Pepsi mash up was...not good.

At the re-airing an old Michael Jackson commercial....YES! That would bring back memories for old fans and maybe make them go and buy it. This maybe too far fetched for promotion and would be a better idea drinks wise then pepsi would be bring back the Mystery Drink! It wasn't made in the bad era so it wouldn't be good in that sense but maybe the drink itself could have been kept but the tin changed to be suitable with the bad 25 album
 
Maybe it would have helped if the Spike Lee docu would have been on TV in many countries in the week of the release - not months after.
 
Well, of course I did buy it, this was a wonderful year for us hardcore fans, it's a shame it's almost over..anyway, I'm one of those fans that would buy a record time and again if it has even the smallest change (extras,demos, unreleased material, etc.) which was the case with BAD25. Of course, I bought Wembley DVD also, but that was only last week. My complaints would be the quality on the DVD, I guess there wasn't much they could do and it's not expensive as some of the CD packages were, so I guess I can let that pass. I enjoyed it thoroughly despite that.

About the audio, well..more unreleased stuff wouldn't hurt. I would've bought a more expensive bundle had they added more unpublished material AND had they left the original tracks intact..(2001 versions were great, i.e: smooth criminal breathing on the intro, Bad's horns..etc I liked that better..don't know why they were changed) AND last but not least, there was a tremendous lack of marketing. Not once did I see anything related to the release of the Spike Lee doc, the cans, the record itself in my country (Mexico) so yes, marketing and promotion were disappointing..and they should think about that next time a BIG re-release takes place. ;D
 
While I bought it, there are several fans who I know that won't buy any Mj product released by Sony until the Cascio songs are removed from Michael's discography. Every aspect of Bad 25 was fantastic but those songs have left such a stain that for some is unforgiveable.

Please come to the debate thread if you want to discuss it.
 
I wrote a post about this in the Chart thread. I don't know how to post the whole post here. I copied most of the text here instead.




Here’s the reasons I think sales are low:

- supply is TOO low, demand is high

Some fans have to wait through October for a product they pre-ordered September and earlier. Walmart, HMV and others sold out of the product before the first week of release even ended.

- no need for the 2cd set & too few demos/unreleased material

The executors knew fans wanted the concert dvd more than anything so why even have the 2 cd set? The set is technically the special edition with 6 demos that are now on YT where fans who haven’t even received their orders and/or only brought the dvd (and will rip the audio from the dvd probably) are listening to them for free.

How many Bad 25 owners who brought the cd/dvd combos have even listened to the original cd before watching the dvd or listening to the demos? Bad was supposed to have 30+ tracks in 1987. Where are all of those songs?

- the concert dvd was the prize and was packaged wrong

Michael didn’t have a live solo cd all this time so many of his fans were not trained to even want one or expect one. Why not sell the dvd with the live cd ONLY so that the success of the live cd was ensured? If someone finds out the number of dvds sold and if the live cd sold AS MUCH, Michael would be # 1 now and not the Pink person.

- all collector’s edition items can be brought separately online

It’s a smack in the face to fans who spent so much to buy this. It should of came out during the holidays with the Spike Lee documentary included for the same price it’s at now.

-promotions were not good

Most were on the Internet. The Pepsi commercial was very short with no clear product information. Walmart and Target ads switched between the cd and the dvd which was confusing for a non-fan who doesn’t know all of the package choices. Also, not advertised in international markets that don’t have Pepsi (but have Coke) and don’t have Walmart and such.

Vogel’s articles were very good but, only fans were interested and they were only on the Internet. Spike Lee’s documentary is the best ad for Bad and won’t be seen in its entirety until February 2013! Why did this not have a theatrical release like TII? Airing on television during holidays will only give a boost if fans buy for non-fan family and friends. When fans buy the documentary dvd next year, will they buy the Bad cd again? No!

THE TRUE PROBLEM WAS PACKAGING!!!​

Why not pair the documentary with the original cd and demos as one product and the live dvd with its cd as another???

To sell someone something they already have, one must repackage correctly. If the live cd was packaged with the dvd, MJ would be number one NOW and not just on the catalogue chart. Sony and the executors are responsible for packaging and did not do it correctly.

I would love to know how many dvd units were sold.

We never knew how far off we were from reaching 1,000,000 units of Bad25 sold so we can see a clip of the Bad doc from the estate. No transparency.

I guess it is a moot point now. I've enjoyed my Bad25 products and I will wait for the documentary DVD next year.
 
Generally, I also think it's a bit unfortunate that Michael had so many Greatest Hits albums in the past 10 years. Casual fans might buy those rather than any individual studio album.
 
Is this question about America only?
I have bought the Deluxe edition, but for Russia I can say that Deluxe wasn't released there, nor was Wembley, and ordering from abroad is very expensive. Only the 2CD edition was released in Russia, and it was not advertised at all. Wembley concert was probably the most awaited piece of the whole Bad 25 package, so I believe if it was released and advertised, sales could be pretty good.

As to the release itself, I thought it was as great as it could be bar one thing: remixes were completely unnecessary. I skip them all the time when I listen to the CD2, because they are hideous (and who likes remixes anyway?) I would have preferred to hear "Cheater" and some of the candid studio moments like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd8r6Ho7TrQ instead.

Other than that the release was awesome, the demos were a treasure and the DVD was invaluable. I can't imagine why it wouldn't sell well, and that's unfortunate. Maybe people just had too much Michael Jackson in the last three years...
 
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I for one loved Bad 25 and think it was the first thing the Estate got right. However, the DVD was packaged wrong and some may not have bought due to the VHS which we know is out of their hands but it wasn't going to be bought by people who expected blu-ray quality. Maybe the songs being cut because of remixes being included was another reason? I can't think of anything else but if I do I'll be sure to post :)
 
The BAD Live CD should have a stand-alone release!!
 
To be honest, I think the main reason was it wasn't promoted enough, nor soon enough. For example, at the beginning the Bad 25 Pepsi cans campaign was a failure in my opinion because they were nearly impossible to find. Something went wrong with the distribution apparently. They should have been easy to find in any grocery store. I also think Spike Lee's Bad 25 documentary came too late. If it had aired at the time of the album's release maybe it would have increased sales. The Dancing With The Stars tribute was probably the best promotion the release got, but it was kind of too late by then.

That being said, I absolutely love the Bad 25 package and all that it came with. For me at least, it exceeded my expectations.
 
I was very happy with the product. The marketing however was poor. Just take a look at the Bad 25 deluxe package. You don’t see Michael’s face or Michael’s name on the cover. So how does one walking through a store even know it's a Michael Jackson product? Unless you already knew about Bad 25, if you saw this in a store, you might not notice it even if you’re a fan.

I also saw a lot of ads on TV that didn’t even mention the Wembley DVD. Like the Pepsi ads during the XFactor for example. They were really cool and were great publicity for Michael’s name, but not for Bad 25. People who saw those ads would have had to actually look up on the Internet to know what Bad 25 was about.

The deal with Pepsi was a big missed opportunity. It could have been great promotion if everybody could have seen them in grocery stores, but those cans were so hard to find even for fans who knew about them that it just ended up being pointless. The idea was good however, but the distribution was terrible.

Great songs like Al Capone, Price Of Fame and Streetwalker should have been used for the promotion. People don’t know that Michael’s demos sound that good. If they knew, I’m sure they would be much more interested in new releases. So why not get those songs to play on radio and on television? Never heard the remixes on radio or television either, but in my opinion we don't need remixes yet, as long as Michael still has so many great unreleased songs. We just need the general public to actually hear them. Keep the remixes for when you'll run out of good unreleased songs.
 
Just a quick question... We know that the men running the Estate are great attorneys, but are they knowledgeable in marketing? Cause when John Branca said in the Spike Lee documentary that he suggested that Michael do an album of cover songs, I pretty much looked at the television set the same way Michael looked at him. That would have been a terrible move for Michael, thank God he didn’t take that advice! lol So if they don’t have much knowledge about marketing, I hope they can get a marketing expert to help them. Michael was a genius in marketing, but now he’s gone…
 
I never saw any of the Pepsi cans in any grocery store that I go to. I asked friends to let me know if they saw them, but no one did.
 
well I really wish MJ had newer finished songs that he had completed.. what ever happened to the work with Will.i.am and the songs with Rodney Jerkins that weren't released? Bad 25 was 25 years old, I think most folks were waiting for MJ to hit us with something new before he left this world. Unfortunately it doesn't appear that he finished any of the new music he was working.
 
I bought it, but that poor VHS turned in DVD should have never been released. That is below Michael Jackson standards (actually that is below anyone's standards), it is unacceptable. CD2 of the boxset is great, although remixes should not have been released on the main CD, they should have been free promo Pepsi remixes. I think poor DVD quality was the main reason why the sales are low.

Other huge reason why everything released after MICHAEL album sells poorly is of course Cascio tracks. If the Estate want to regain fans appreciation they know what they need to do - remove those tracks from Michael Jackson's discography. Everything started with that and until they fix that everything will go downhill. It is not too late to apologize to the fans. I don't even want money refund, I just want those songs to be erased from MJ's discography.
 
i did my part, the girls each got the regular & i got the deluxe but yeah nonfans didnt know about it, especially older folks not on facebook, etc. maybe a new single or two more to radio mightve helped
 
Personally, I think Bad25 is an amazing product, it’s a total must-have for every fan.

I wouldn’t really change anything about Bad25. I know the DVD quality wasn’t great, but if that’s the best possible quality available I don’t see much point in complaining about it. I like the unreleased songs, and was happy with how many new songs we got. I don’t think there should have been more new songs. There is only a limited number of unreleased songs, and if they release tons of new material in the first few years after his death, what are they going to release in 20 or 30 years? I think it’s important to think further ahead, and not just about whatever the current project is.

I think I’m very much in the minority with this, but I liked the remixes too. Well, at least the Speed Demon remix and the Pitbull-free version of Bad. I would have been fine with having more remixes on the album, but I think a lot fans don’t like remixes at all, so having a lot of them on the album probably wouldn’t be a good idea.

I don’t really know what to think of Bad25’s sales. I mean, it seems clear the general public isn’t all that interested in it. Which isn’t maybe that surprising, considering it’s a re-release of a 25 year old album, which a lot of people already bought relatively recently in 2009. And I think it’s usually just fans who are interested in re-releases.

Also, I think the timing is just wrong for a MJ release to be hugely popular with the general public. Michael’s album sales had a huge increase in 2009, and there has been a lot of new MJ projects since. We’ve had several albums, a video game and a hugely successful tour. That’s a lot of stuff for any artist, especially an artist who’s no longer here. Maybe the public just needs a little break. Michael always took breaks between albums, to build up hype and anticipation. I think that’s what needed now too.

Another thing that has to affect the sales is that the album is just very hard to find in stores, at least here where I live. I don’t know if stores just didn’t order it, but the only way to buy the album is to order it online. Which of course casual listeners aren’t going to do since they probably don’t even know the album is out.

Still, I’m a bit surprised by the sales numbers. Even if it’s targeted mostly towards fans, I thought Michael has way more fans than this. I don’t know what to say. Maybe he just doesn’t have as many fans as I’d like to think? Or maybe there are tons of fans out there who just boycott everything. That would be really frustrating, because even though those fans might mean well, boycotting products like Bad25 would be a terrible idea imo.
 
Michael always took breaks between albums, to build up hype and anticipation. I think that’s what needed now too.

Breaks worked well when Michael was still alive, but now that he's gone, it could have an adverse effect. It might be good for the general public, but fans need something to discuss and to keep them busy, or else the interest will fade away and we'll move on. What would happen to this forum if the Estate waited 4 years before the next release? Back when Michael was alive, it wasn't a problem, because even when he didn't release anything, we still saw a lot of him. He would perform, make special appearances, give interviews, or he'd be stalked by paparazzi. But now we would have NOTHING. Nothing to keep the interest up while we wait for the next album. I think a collectors label could be a very good solution here. That way the general market wouldn't be saturated with Michael Jackson products, and fans would still get little things on a regular basis to keep them interested.
 
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