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Thread: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

   
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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    I just read the Jeffrey Adams deposition--wow--what a series of events that seemed so random and yet ended up with the disastrous meeting of MJ and CM via this guy! This guy formed Knockout Security in December 06 and somehow with just having formed this company, with no proven track record, he gets to 'orchestrate" MJ's security when he arrives fro Ireland. Then in Feb o7 he is asked to recommend a dr for the sick kids and send CM over. The guy who asks for the recommendation is a guy called John or Basheer Mohammed. Now presumabley Jeffry Adamas had something to do with this guy b/c he 'orchestrated" MJ's security, and yet in the depo he says he doesn't know the guy's last name! This seems so unorganized and random and not tight and I wonder who decided to hire these people in the first place? Raymone? Who?

    Then why is some random security guy that no one knows his last name calling another security guy for a dr recommendation--I mean doesn't MJ know other people in Vegas? He could have called Jack Wishna, the guy who convinced him to return to USA or any number of people--or even someone in his (gulp) family who after all LIVE in Vegas. It all sounds so completely nuts and weird and disorganized.

    And then Jeffrey Adams ends up being with CM from MJ's death til his incarceration b/c his dad wanted him to--what about his job? Does he have a family? What about his Knockout Security company?--yes, it was a knockout all right. I am aghast. And he said he couldn't say how much money he earned as being security for CM.

    Just seems so weird that someone like MJ should be getting these medical recommendations from his security guards-WHY???

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    I did not have time to actually evaluate the proposed form, I'm just to busy trying to get stuff out for the rest of the people. The notes then the verdict form, I was just so tired yesterday made a bunch of mistakes and I still have jury instructions to work on. But I thought it was surprising that Jacksons form did not ask if Murray was hired and who hired him questions. Isn't that how the negligent hiring claim supposed to start? was there a hiring and was the hiring negligent?
    Now that you mention it, the question is did AEG hired CM is missing! Plaintiffs assumed that is clear as muddy water that AEG hired CM
    This trial has been going on so long that they forgot why they were in court:-)
    I've said few times in past months that judge has to remind jurors what this trial is about, but obviously she have to remind plaintiffs too :giggle:

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    On page 47 of the AEG Jury forms, 'Implied in fact contract' it states that the jury should look to the conduct and relationship between the parties.

    I don't think this would include any communication that took place to draft the contract.

    Were AEG aware that Murray was going to attend the meeting with Michael?

    By conduct, I would assume this would include any money/payment - Murray was never paid.


    The Plantiffs instructions on contracts start on page 10

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    This is an interesting bit:
    CACI no Special 1 Minor's right to sue: Guardian Ad Litem, submitted by defendands.
    Because PPB are under age of 18, and are therefore minors, the law requires that an adult bring the suit on their behalf. The adult is called a guardian. In this case, KJ childrens grand-mother, has been named as th guardian for PPB.

    I don't know if it effects on jury but defence got KJ to admit that she didn't ask from PPB anything nor did she told them tthat she is sueing AEG.
    --------------------
    There are many interesting points in defenses instructions, but this got my extra attention:
    Foreseeability
    To determine whether AEG knew or should have known CM's unfitness or incompetence created a particular risk of harm to MJ, one test that is helpful is to ask the question whether or not, if a personof ordinary prudence had been in the same situation and possessed of the same knowledge as AEG, he or she would have foreseen or anticipated that CM might have harmed MJ in the manner that occured here.

    That is a good advice to jurors to put themselves into AEG people shoes and think would they have foreseen the danger of CM.
    -------------------------
    "In awarding plaintiff's damages, you should consider the amount of money that plaintiffs receive today from MJ companies and MJ's estate in your calculation.Plaintiffs must show that there has been some monetary loss. If plaintiffs are today receiving the same or more money from MJ's estate or MJ companies than they received before his death, there is no monetary loss, and you cannot award them any economic damages. To do so, would result double recovery which is not allowed."

    How jurors would be able to determinate if KJ gets more money from MJ's estate now than she got before as AEG wasn't allowed to bring it up during the trial?
    ----------------
    In order for KJ to recover damages, the evidense must establish that she was financially dependent upon MJ for the "necessaries of life"." Necessaries of life are food, clothing, shelter, and medical treatment.
    If you find KJ wasn't dependent on MJ for the "NOL" you may not award her any economic or non-economic damages.

    That should be interesting as Havenhurt going on foreclosure was brought up during the trial.
    ------------------
    "At least nine jurors must agree on a verdict"

    Is this true, 9 out of 12 must agree the same verdict?
    What is they don't?
    -----------------
    I see that they put in the last page explanation what General medical needs (as mentioned in CM contract) means.

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    Jackson side has filed a motion asking judge to prevent AEG from mentioning the dismissal of the defendants as it could "confuse the jury" and they want a jury instruction that tells the jurors not to speculate why a person is no longer involved in the case.

    AEG has filed a reply saying they have no intention of mentioning such and according to rules both parties cannot mention successful / unsuccessful motions to the jury.
    Plaintiffs are odd punch :ph34r: AEG has it printed in in their jury instructions.

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by marebear View Post
    I don't get how people say Katherine doesn't want to hear bad things and they don't tell her bad things so she avoids it. Is she a child or something? Nobody likes to hear bad things but she is a grown woman with children and grandchildren. What I have read the last couple of days shows to me that the Jacksons should have had therapy a long time ago. They don't communicate at all only when they want something. I am not trying to sound hateful but you can't be blind to what happens in life. We don't live in a fantasy world where only good things happen. Her children treat her like a fragile child and she treats them the same way back it seems. She says if she had known things she would have done something but you can't help but wonder what when she avoids talking about things and dealing with things. The whole family does that. I am sorry I am just shocked by this logic.
    excellent post! Katherine claims AEG or someone there should've let her and Joe know that MJ was 'deterioriating' and they would've went over there in a heartbeat but I guess she forgot that Randy allegedly had 7 interventions and Joe told her that MJ looked frail and thin to him and she did absolutely nothing... so what would she have done if AEG, Ortega or Karen Faye had called her and said that MJ was sick or being drugged?

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Some points have called my attention. The first one is from the AEG's proposal of Jury Instructions, page 42:





    This one about the Plaintiffs' proposal, page 10:



    Page 15:





    Another interesting point is on p. 14 of the Plaintiffs' Jury Instructions:

    CACI 401. BASIC STANDARD OF CARE

    Negligence is the failure to use reasonable care to prevent harm to oneself or to others.
    A person can be negligent by acting or by failing to act. A person is negligent if he or she does something that a reasonable careful person would not do in the same situation or fails to do something that a reasonably careful person would do in the same situation.
    You must decide how a reasonably careful person would have acted in Defendant AEG Live’s situation.
    Last edited by smoothlugar; 13-09-2013 at 05:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    ^^^^^ The first paragraph answers a point I raised earlier.

    On the negligence part, if AEG are liable based on that explanation then so are other people.

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Some updates

    Partial Shimelman deposition is out. If AEG wants to call him, they need to call him live to the stand.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From ABC

    Arguments in court have cleared the way for Katherine Jackson to be called back to the witness stand in the Michael Jackson wrongful-death lawsuit. AEG defense attorneys say they want to ask her about her claim for damages. Documents filed by the plaintiffs put the damage amount at $40 billion. AEG attorneys call that figure absurd. The plaintiffs say the number is based on a document expressing a maximum on what Jackson's loss was worth.

    The judge told AEG attorneys they cannot ask Katherine Jackson about the damage statement. However, she can be asked about her economic and personal loss.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Jacksons filed an opposition about AEG's jury instructions CACI 306 and Special Instructions 4. They are also opposing AEG's request to remove mention of supervision.
    Twitter : Ivy_4MJ

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by Tygger View Post
    Ivy, the group will support you right or wrong, deflection and spin; but you know that. Please be kind and do not forget to thank your supporters for their unconditional support. laughs

    How many posters in this thread alone immediately stated the removal of Phillips/Gongaware was a blow to the plaintiffs’ case? After learning the removal was customary and Duke’s article stating the defense rejected the removal previously, some realize it was not a blow but, not all.

    Panish has to control how the jurors will view the removal of defendants. If you clearly read your own post, Panish is stating he cannot depend on the AEG LAWYERS to clarify that situation for the jurors without taking advantage of that situation for their own benefit. It is better the jurors are not told by the defense or, if they are, it has to be carefully tailored as to not benefit either side.

    Try again. wink
    WHAT??? LOL! Not Ivy supporters. Let's get it right ok? MICHAEL JACKSON Not Michael Jackson "FAMILY" supporters! This forum is named the MICHAEL JACKSON COMMUNITY FORUM! Stop trying to minimize people. Ivy is top notch on my respect spectrum but MJ ALONE is why I am here.

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by jaydom7 View Post
    excellent post! Katherine claims AEG or someone there should've let her and Joe know that MJ was 'deterioriating' and they would've went over there in a heartbeat but I guess she forgot that Randy allegedly had 7 interventions and Joe told her that MJ looked frail and thin to him and she did absolutely nothing... so what would she have done if AEG, Ortega or Karen Faye had called her and said that MJ was sick or being drugged?
    KJ is full of it just like her cubs.

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    I agree Victory she is full of it.. she acts like she was absolutely clueless or nonchalant about all of MJ's medical issues. I am assuming that she wasn't there to take care of him during his scalp surgeries, back pains, and other ailments he was having.

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    Quote Originally Posted by jaydom7 View Post
    I agree Victory she is full of it.. she acts like she was absolutely clueless or nonchalant about all of MJ's medical issues. I am assuming that she wasn't there to take care of him during his scalp surgeries, back pains, and other ailments he was having.
    I believe she didn't wanna know as long as the $$ were rolling in you know.

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    More delays
    Alan Duke ‏@AlanDukeCNN 13h
    Michael Jackson death trial testimony delayed again until Wednesday due to juror family emergency.

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    Default Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

    From Randy's depo:
    He says he was close to MJ, but couldn't recall whether he talked or saw to MJ in 2009?

    From his infamous letter:
    Our brother told us, in no uncertain terms and without hesitation in the months prior to his death, that he despised both of you and that he did not want either of you to have anything to do with his life or estate for that matter.

    and later when MJ was living in Carolwoord, Joe and him tried to call MJ but they were unsuccesful

    Typical Randy, talking out of his a.s. I'd like to know, if he didn't talk or couldn't remember seeing MJ in 2009, when MJ told him that he hates Branca & McCain, and don't want them to be in his life or his estate? Btw, if MJ used the word estate, did MJ knew he was going die?
    ------------------
    Too funny, on page 20 he says he was investigating MJ drug use, and when asked how he was investigating it, he repllied: by talking people around MJ, and that person around MJ was Rebbie! Since when Rebbie is known to spend time with MJ? No wonder Rebbie got sick and couln't testify, as religious as she is, to cooperate with Randy's lies, she would have had to lie on stand and a lot:smilerolleyes:
    ------------------
    Another too funny statement from Randy. At the end of his depo he says while they were trying to figure out how to grieve, and even before MJ was buried, Branca and co went to court about wills etc

    Randy forgot that, 4 days after MJ's death (MJ still in morgue),KJ was the first one in court telling that MJ died intastate and wanted to be nominated as administrator of the estate. Prior even going to court, there must have had talk within family who would be the most like person to be nominated and according to Randy's infamous letter, they were aware of MJ had will, so there must have been some plotting and talking prior going to court. So I suppose "grieve" in Jacksonese has a different meaning.
    Last edited by Bubs; 14-09-2013 at 10:42 AM.

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