The Michael Jackson Estate - Discussion (2013)

[AlwaysThere]

I continue to see discussion about the estate and their incompetence reign throughout nearly every thread on this board. Many arguments I've read are very insightful and thought out; some are simply reaffirming long standing feelings and disapproval of the way things are being carried out. So, with that in mind, I've decided to put together a stand alone thread where the fans can rant about the estate. I did a search and couldn't find a standing thread pertaining to this topic, but I apologize if I missed it.

==NOTE: Assuming this thread isn't deleted, discussion WILL get heated. There are no wrong opinions, nor are their right ones. There will be debates. In advance, I want to point out that I do not wish to insult any member of the fan community with any post I make in this or any other thread. I am simply expressing my feelings towards those who take what they get for granted.==

To begin my assessment (which is a bit long ), we need to give the estate the benefit of the doubt. Michael was admittedly God awful at archiving. His belongings, including paintings, hard drives, etc., were in total disarray when the estate was first formed soon after his passing. Hell, the estate can't even locate Michael's vocals for Groove of Midnight, which was recorded in 1987 and, based on Matt Forger's response, may have been lost or destroyed. When fans complain because they felt that a newly-released compilation didn't offer enough unreleased music, I can't help but want to point out that the estate does not have everything, and releasing more than necessary at one point in time would dry out the vault in a matter of years. Think about it: would you rather waste all the Bad-era demos at once for Bad 25 and never hear a new song from that era again, or have them released in sections over a long period of time and get to experience that magic over and over?

Secondly, fans tend to focus on the negative side of everything. Bad 25 gave us a VHS copy of Wembley, right? Yeah, but it also gave us six amazing new songs, a great package, a phenomenal documentary and perhaps the strongest performance Michael's ever done. The Michael album was overproduced and gave us three fake songs, right? Yeah, but it also gave us seven amazing songs that are regularly acclaimed on this very board. I'm not saying you have to adore every single project that comes out -- criticism breeds higher quality -- but when the estate does something right, you need to tell them.

We are not dealing with Michael Jackson here, people. I'm fully with the belief that every release has to honor his legacy, but we cannot expect 100% perfection. And I'm sure I will see comments that say that flawlessness isn't expected. True, not from everyone at least. There are a number of people, not only on here but on other boards, who have the mindset that if a project has a flaw, they can only talk about that flaw and not give props to anything. There are a substantial number of fans that will criticize, yet give credit when it is due, and for those of you who do, this paragraph specifically is not directed at you.

If I had to give the estate a rating from 1 to 10, I would give them a solid 6.5. Their beginnings were very rocky, especially with Michael, but as of late they have shown a true desire to communicate with fans and give us what we want. I don't expect perfection in the slightest, but I have faith that the estate will deliver in the next few years. If I'm wrong, of course I will be the first to stand up and take back everything I said. But for the time being, I wish them the best of luck with the next album, and I'm excited to see how it turns out.

 

[Bubs]

Good post and interesting subject. I agree with your assessment that there are fans that only see the flaws but not the whole product.

I think it is safe to say, some of those fans are family supporters and think family should have run the estate, thus trying to find flaws on everything Branca and Co trying to do. Then there is fans that generally think the estate should release only 100% perfect products, which is impossible as MJ is not here to give his guidance.

I would give to the estate solid 8.5. The reason for high rating because I don't consider only what they release on Michael's name but everything else that goes with the handling his estate. If you followed AEG trial, you know how they tried to protect MJ's privacy during AEG trial.
AEG trial also brought out the notes that MJ had written to himself. Executors didn't see those notes before the trial (MJ's nephew was holding them in his closet), but obviously Branca and Michael had talked some of the coming projects, and as far as I can see Branca and Co have followed the lines what MJ wanted to do.
Samples what MJ wanted to do and what the estate completed:
MJ musical now - Immortal and MJONE
MJ Soda Can London Deal Now - Pepsi cans
games activation now - MJ experience
the next movies if I don't concentrate film no immortalization - MJ wanted immortalized and obviously didn't think he had more than enough to be immortal, but I see where Branca and Co got the name for touring Immortal show and there was TII document
Cirque Du Soleil 10,000,000 - 2 Cirque shows

That some fans reaction to Bad 25 with Wembley concert was a bit odd.
It was known before what the quality was going to be, but there were still complains about it, even thought it was the concert that fans petitioned to be released.
Noone forced them to buy it, they could have buy just the songs, but I guess some fans loved to complain just for sake of it



Also the estate is doing good job with various court cases.


PS, belated birthday wishes to Branca
Backstreet Boys ‏@BoysInBack 18h
Happy 63rd Birthday John Branca. Thank you for keeping Michael’s Legacy alive. – http://MJ-Upbeat.com Cool Photos Below…

 

[HIStoric]

Re: The Michael Jackson Estate - Discussion

I think the Estate at the beginning was quite rocky, with the release of Michael (which I consider a forgettable album that's only worthy of 'meh' status), but I've been happy with pretty much every other project they have done.

-I loved the Vision boxset. The packaging was cool - ESPECIALLY the cover and I was fine with the video quality. Yes, I expect better in the future but it will take quite sometime to find all the original film negatives of Michael's short films, re-scan them and then have to re-edit them all over again (as they were edited on tape apparently. It was really nice to just have one neat package with all of Michael's short films in one place.

-I really went to the Immortal show and LOVED it! I couldn't give a damn about the CD (Have no intention what so ever of buying it) but the show itself is just amazing and the 9th top grossing tour of all time?! Who would've thought of that?!

-Bad 25 was also great! I enjoyed most of the songs released in that boxset (didn't really like or care for 'Free') and I was so excited to hear Al Capone. The photo booklet was presented well and the packaging was top-notch (I love the boxset I got) and even the standard edition is nice to look at. I myself was happy with the concert. As we all know, Michael's archiving was atrocious and I think we're lucky we found a VHS of his that was no doubt played over and over hundreds of times. It's a 25 year old VHS people, stop expecting miracles. I thought it looked great for a 25 year old tape and if anything, added a... nostalgic factor to it that I can't quite explain. Yes, it is a bit... off at first but I found I got used to it quite quickly. The content of it was fine and I loved how we finally got a live CD! I did hear that, around the time the DVD was about to come out, they had found film negatives of the concert and by then, it was obviously too late to suddenly cancel production of the DVD so they'll likely re-release it in a few years.

-The Bad 25 documentary itself was just fine and most of the issues I have with it are probably out of the Estate's control. I wish Spike Lee made the doco longer and spent more time on the songs, rather than filling up 10 minutes at the end with Man in the Mirror. I wouldn't have minded the end of that performance, but I would've preferred to spend more time on the songs as some songs (i.e. Speed Demon) felt rushed. The segment for the song 'Bad' was perfect though, but it's obvious they had a whopping amount of footage and BTS material for that. I felt the distribution of the film after it's TV premiere was slack, though this may have been on Sony's part since they seem to handle distribution of MJ's material? They should have uploaded it to iTunes upon the release of the DVD. I would've saved $15 and got it in HD instead of DVD (but at least I have a physical copy I suppose). Speaking of the DVD, I would like to say I am very happy with the visual quality of the DVD. All the newly scanned film and newly-shot interview footage look WONDERFUL, even when I full-screen it and it is no doubt helped by the fact we got no extras, meaning there was more space on the disc for the documentary and therefore the transfer was higher quality. In saying that, extras would've been nice to and I wish the Estate provided these. Overall, I very much enjoyed the documentary, I just wish it was longer and that the distribution was handed better.

Overall I too would give the Estate 8.5/10. They f*cked up big time with Michael, but they have really seemed to have learnt their lesson and seem to be taking their time with this next project, which will hopefully give us something everyone can love and enjoy!

 

[jamba]

Re: The Michael Jackson Estate - Discussion

I think the Estate has done a good job too. They have had to cover a lot of bases--the lawsuits alone have been absolutely mindboggling in that there are coming out of the woodwork and now the freakin IRS on top of everyone else. They had to renegotiate all the loans and untangle the finances, not to mention trying to locate and gather up all the possessions, the artwork, the archives--it is a big job. I think it will take years to unravel it all--Neverland, the lawsuits, the archives. Then there is all the family drama and the various KJ issues. I give them kudos for all they have done to handle these things and put out good products to earn $$ for the Estate, keep people reasonably happy, and keep MJ's legacy alive and growing.

People have questioned the will, as we know, but if MJ had another will--where is it? This is the only one around. So if this will would be invalidated, that would mean Bank of America and the courts would be handling the Estate or--long shot--the Jacksons. Given the alternatives, there is no doubt in my mind who is best suited to do the job.

I hope Branca and McClain stay healthy.

I have been happy with the Estate projects. They are building a legacy over time--for all time.

 

[analogue]

Re: The Michael Jackson Estate - Discussion

With the exception of the Michael album I think that the estate has done a good job so far

 

[krikzil]

Re: The Michael Jackson Estate - Discussion

I shudder to think where things would stand without Branca at the helm. Sure, there have been some missteps but overall the Executors have done a very good job in my opinion. The complicated debt situation, dealing with the family and its schemes and working to preserve MJ's legacy are all difficult jobs.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: The Michael Jackson Estate - Discussion

In recent days, I've seen various fans endorse the practice of leaking unreleased recordings. Their reasoning, you may ask? Well, the bulk of it actually focuses on that individual's distaste for the Estate and their fear of having these tracks offered to us in a less-than-perfect circumstance. To these people (assuming they are visiting this thread), I offer this:

Take a look at the posthumous catalog of Jimi Hendrix and count how many perfect projects there are. Now count how many good/decent projects there are. Now count how many bad products there are. I'm expecting one of these categories in particular to outweigh the others by a substantial margin. Now do the same with artists like Elvis, Amy Winehouse, Tupac Shakur, The Notorious B.I.G., John Lennon. Odds are you'll find more subpar releases than you will good ones. And you will NOT find a perfect project anywhere in the bunch.
(Before I begin receiving comments about any Beatles projects, particularly Anthology, I feel compelled to point out that at the time of its release, there were three surviving Beatles to overlook its outcome. Even today, Paul and Ringo are still going strong and can oversee any major release if they intend to. Therefore, any Beatles projects don't count.)

Another unfair reasoning that I have been given is that the Estate decided to release the three Cascio tracks on the album, which in my opinion is extremely unjustified. As much as it seems naive to believe, all we can fault the executors (or really, John Branca and Howard Weissman) for is believing the songs were genuinely Michael. Do they deserve hate because it's their opinion? No, just like some fans who believe the tracks are real don't deserve hate. They DO deserve hate, however, on the fact that they lied about the songs (the audio forensic results, the testimony of Michael's collaborators, etc) and fail to acknowledge that they made a mistake releasing them publicly.