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Thread: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch (The Estate Responds - page 63 post 945)

   
  1. #31
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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by morinen View Post
    I don't care what the problems around the ranch were, to be honest, all I know is they failed Michael and his legacy by failing to resolve those problems.
    please clarify something for me: imagine it's 100% impossible to open a museum. So you don't care it's 100% impossible and you want them to open it no matter what?

    does that even make sense? while I understand the emotional reaction to this news, I don't get the accompanying impossible and unrealistic demands or expectations.


    The significance of the place for all the good and bad that'd happened there is enormous, the place is a memorial to human magic and the humankind cruelty.
    perhaps it's me but do you really think this supports your position? for whatever reason this disturbs me personally.
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  3. #32
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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    please clarify something for me: imagine it's 100% impossible to open a museum. So you don't care it's 100% impossible and you want them to open it no matter what?
    I don't believe such things are impossible. Zoning gets changed if there is enough investment, exceptions are made for significant occasions - this is not a machine, these are human rules that can be negotiated. If not now, maybe in 10 years when the government changes. Let's face it, it's being sold because it's not a profitable investment at the moment, in other words, it's treated as no more than a piece of land.

    And sorry, I didn't understand what disturbs you. I believe what people did to Michael and his home was awful, and the humankind should remember such deeds and acknowledge them and try not to repeat them in future. Learn something from history, you know. Have a place to come and think about what they or their predecessors did to their neighbour. In a sense like a war memorial. Of a different scale, but with a similar connotation.
    Last edited by morinen; 31-07-2014 at 04:41 AM.

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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    I thought the Estate still retains 87.5%? Colony has the right to sell the Estate's share too?

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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Ivy, continuing to characterize me as anti-Estate at any and all opportunities, eh? laughs

    Simply stating such does not make it so and you seem to have missed the other posters who feel the same.

    You and the other “knowledgeable fans who follow lawsuits” are free to wax poetic about the dangers of Tohme who introduced Michael to Colony and AEG. Enjoy. That is the Estate's statement and it included Michael's name, not Tohme's.

    Regardless of Tohme, I will correct myself as the Estate does indeed have an 87.5% undivided interest in Neverland; Colony does not have controlling interest.

    There was no profit in the property once Estate/Colony could not have the residential property re-zoned for commercial use. I will assume a judge has approved this sale and the Estate will realize a tidy profit when the property is sold. No need to preserve a part of Michael’s legacy for his children when profits are waiting.

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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold Pants Girl View Post
    I thought the Estate still retains 87.5%? Colony has the right to sell the Estate's share too?

    87.5% may not be the right number I guess. I don't know.

    The source close to the Estate said Colony holds the majority and has the say in how to deal with the property.

    And the Estate has no say.



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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    they said an agreement negotiated during Michael's lifetime gave Colony the rights to sell Neverland. If anything they blamed the agreement not Michael. The knowledgeable fans who follow lawsuits know that the negotiated deal has been the topic of Estate vs. Tohme lawsuit in which Estate openly blamed Tohme for bringing an unfavorable deal to MJ and MJ signing the deal without independent counsel. so "Michael's fault" is your biased interpretation of what was being said. Now in your quest to portray Estate negatively you can choose to ignore the very important piece of information from Tohme lawsuit. I can't say I'm surprised.

    and I'll do a reminder for the other people

    May 2008 Tohme and Michael signs a finder's agreement for Tohme introducing Michael to Colony Capital.
    - Estate alleges that Tohme didn't tell Michael that he had a pre-existing relationship with Colony Capital.
    - According to the finder's fee agreement : Michael was to give Tohme 10% of the loan amount ($2.4M), 10% from the future sale of Neverland and 10% from any future transactions with Colony Capital.
    - Estate claims Michael didn't have an independent lawyer and signed the finder's fee agreement without fully understanding and getting independent explanation of it.
    - Estate says Michael signed the agreement because he trusted Tohme and believed the finder's fee amount was normal and customary. Estate argues that these amounts are too high.
    - Estate says Tohme had conflicting roles - working as a finder and working as the manager of Michael.
    - Estate states that the Neverland deal done with Colony Capital was highly unfavorable for Michael. It limited his use and control of Neverland and had unfavorable financial terms.
    - Estate says as Tohme had ties and interest in regards to Colony Capital, he didn't look for better and more favorable financing options for Neverland. (Estate says that they believe other better options were available)
    - Estate says Michael signed the Neverland / Colony Capital agreement without having counsel independent from Tohme and not subject to Tohme's control and authority.

    it should be quite obvious now whose fault Estate thinks Neverland deal is.
    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    Zoning change is not that easy. and believe me even if Lady Gaga or whomever you think to be perfect buys it they would not be magically able to change zoning and open museums and such.

    Even in 2009 CC tried to get a permit for burial and a memorial and even back then it was reported that even neighbors were against even such permits or any zoning change. It's a country side, a residential area with ranches etc. It doesn't have the infrastructure to handle heavy traffic and it doesn't seem like zoning or restrictions would change.

    this is the reality of the situation.
    :victory: Thank you for breaking down the lawyer speak, Ivy! It is what it is, people. To be honest, I don't blame those residents near the ranch for fighting against changing the zoning. I wouldn't want my secluded/tranquil neck of the woods turned into a side show or tourist trap.

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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Thank you for the information..Meanwhile where , where is Thomme.? under a rock?

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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by mkgenie View Post
    87.5% may not be the right number I guess. I don't know.

    The source close to the Estate said Colony holds the majority and has the say in how to deal with the property.

    And the Estate has no say.


    But they have the right to sell his 87.5% share? Yeah I'd say that's a bad deal alright!

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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    So sad...

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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by mkgenie View Post
    Oh no, the Estate should have enough money to buy it back.
    My guess is that Colony set the price so high to buy out their interest the Estate said forget it. Estate is not going to allow them to emotionally hold a hammer over their heads and cheat the kids out of all they have earned.

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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by SheilaMJFan4Ever View Post
    :victory: Thank you for breaking down the lawyer speak, Ivy! It is what it is, people. To be honest, I don't blame those residents near the ranch for fighting against changing the zoning. I wouldn't want my secluded/tranquil neck of the woods turned into a side show or tourist trap.
    The thing is, today there are people at the gates practically 24/7. They come, they have picnics at the gates, they play music. When Michael lived there, busloads of children were brought to the ranch every couple of weeks, and it didn't disturb anyone. The territory is huge, the bus disappears behind the gate, and you'll never see or hear its occupants. The situation for the neighbors now is worse than it could have been if organized visits to the territory were carried out. There is Hearst ranch about 200 miles from Neverland - was that a zone approved for a museum when Hearst lived there? Probably not. But now it is, because it's a historic monument. And it is preserved as such. Neverland is not, largely because America is unable to recognize Michael Jackson as a historic figure of enough importance to preserve his artifacts as part of history. Which is sad to me, because when this recognition comes, a lot of things may be already undone and lost irreversibly.

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  20. #42
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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by morinen View Post
    I don't believe such things are impossible. Zoning gets changed if there is enough investment, exceptions are made for significant occasions - this is not a machine, these are human rules that can be negotiated. If not now, maybe in 10 years when the government changes.
    well this doesn't sound even a little realistic to me. You want them to buy a not profitable investment and throw money at it for decades in the hopes that stuff might change.

    And sorry, I didn't understand what disturbs you. I believe what people did to Michael and his home was awful, and the humankind should remember such deeds and acknowledge them and try not to repeat them in future. Learn something from history, you know. Have a place to come and think about what they or their predecessors did to their neighbour. In a sense like a war memorial. Of a different scale, but with a similar connotation.
    well it would have made more sense to me if your argument was to keep it as a childhood home or for the good memories and such. For a reason why I don't understand it sounded like you are more focused on keeping and remembering it for all the bad things happened. I mean who goes to Neverland and thinks "here is where those kids claimed they were abused and Michael was strip searched. Here's the place that Michael believed to be tainted by evil". I don't get it. and honestly I don't think any human being would come there to remember such deeds and get a lesson from there. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold Pants Girl View Post
    I thought the Estate still retains 87.5%? Colony has the right to sell the Estate's share too?
    No one knows the details of the agreement between them

    Quote Originally Posted by Tygger View Post
    Ivy, continuing to characterize me as anti-Estate at any and all opportunities, eh?
    well I kinda think you outed yourself the other day with your over sensitivity about anti-estate people when it wasn't even aimed to you.


    I will correct myself as the Estate does indeed have an 87.5% undivided interest in Neverland; Colony does not have controlling interest.
    and now please go and research undivided interest and you'll see majority percentage doesn't give "controlling" to anyone. or do you need my help? In short in a undivided interest regardless of the percentages each owner has equal rights on the property. and plus creditors can force a sale.

    ---------

    I mean we know Colony has put over $23.5 M+ to the property. It seems any and all commercial attempts to raise revenues have failed. Colony has no emotional reason to put more money into Neverland and have a loss on their investment. As a creditor their agreement probably has a payback or force a sale option. And I guess it's safe to assume that Estate won't or can't buy it given they mention new owner in their statement.
    Last edited by ivy; 31-07-2014 at 05:08 AM.
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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Yes it was the deal Michael made through Tohme with Colonial that gave them rights to sell it. The Estate is suing Tohme over that deal. They feel Michael got shafted. The Estate had nothing to do with it. They are not the ones selling Neverland and they have no legal right to stop colonial from Selling it. The fact that Michaels Estate will receive it's share from the sale is not any wrong doing on their part its part of the original deal. At lease something goes back to MJ's Estate. They certainly understand the Historical value and legacy of Neverland. They discussed options with Colonial of ways they could salvage and use the property but zoning laws wont allow it. Plus Colonial is losing money maintaining it while it is sitting dormant.. The Estates hands are tied as far as stopping Colonial from selling it..
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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by 8701girl View Post
    This should be up to the children and no one else! and didnt paris say she wanted to rebuild it ?
    but they don't own it or have the right to it...

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  26. #45
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    Default Re: From The Estate: Colony Capital To Sell Neverland Ranch

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    well this doesn't sound even a little realistic to me. You want them to buy a not profitable investment and throw money at it for decades in the hopes that stuff might change.
    Maybe the state government should be offered to buy it, like they bought Hearst Castle. I don't know what was done to save it, Ivy, so it's hard for me to advise. But I know that it has historic significance as well as significance for many people, it was important to Michael and reportedly still is important to his children. So the decision to sell it because it's not profitable is materialistic and maybe a bit shortsighted.

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    well it would have made more sense to me if your argument was to keep it as a childhood home or for the good memories and such. For a reason why I don't understand it sounded like you are more focused on keeping and remembering it for all the bad things happened. I mean who goes to Neverland and thinks "here is where those kids claimed they were abused and Michael was strip searched. Here's the place that Michael believed to be tainted by evil". I don't get it. and honestly I don't think any human being would come there to remember such deeds and get a lesson from there. Sorry.
    I mentioned both sides, because I think both are important for different reasons. And I mentioned it mainly to counter the usual argument "Michael never wanted to go back there anyway" or "this place is tainted," so good riddance. It may be true, I'm not in denial about it, but it doesn't make it less valuable - in some ways, it makes it more so. Because it bears that lesson whether you want to see it or not. Of course people come there to remember the good in the first place, to remember Michael, but it comes with a lace of sadness. Because unless you are in denial, you can't forget the end of the story. Again, it's like with a war memorial. You come to remember people for heroic thing they did, but it inevitably comes with certain reflection.
    Last edited by morinen; 31-07-2014 at 05:23 AM.

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