Latest on MJJC

Kanye West soon-to-be-king of pop?

wednesday

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
550
Points
0
I was looking at amazon-reviews of Susan Fast's Dangerous, which are few and very general and therefore not very helpful, and saw from the same series a book on Kanye West's album My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy and came upon this review:

"Our culture is already bored with meta-commentary about the potential effects of the digital revolution. It’s here, it’s everywhere, it’s the water flowing over the gills of the millennial and nourishing an isolated global community of social mavens, prepared to Google-as-a-verb the meaning of the word “maven” at a moment’s notice from a smartphone, tablet, netbook, and eyeglasses. It is no surprise, then, that possibly the most influential musician of the 21st century personifies and embraces the identity-crafting realm of the real-time and connected. It's important that any book about this musician understands the world we live in.

Kirk Walker Graves, author of the 33 1/3 entry for Kanye West’s album “My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy”, assumed the burden of dissecting the eponymous album for this very reason. Why focus an intellectual analysis on an album only four years old, nearly devoid of historical context? The author sends the message that MBDTF is the first album that wraps its tendrils directly into the psyche of a society that treats socializing as preparation for personal celebrity, desiring all things immediately not just due to impatience, but because soon now will be irrelevant. Much like the album and our pop culture, the importance of Graves’ analysis cannot be understated, or delayed.

Graves shows a level of enthusiasm for his work comparable to a toddler with a leaf blower in a realm of endless cotton candy. The book begins by giving one of the best explanations of Kanye, the artist and the human, that I have yet read. It helps the reader place him within the digital culture now pervading the world that I previously mentioned. At times, Graves’ ardor lends the book a zest for cultural context that informs the reader of even the most implacable song-sample or lyrical choice. There is a clear appreciation for sociological an anthropological meaning here as well; the many aspects of Kanye and the individual works within MBDTF are frequently described in terms of America’s love-hate response to His ego and ambitions. If you’ve ever felt there’s a fiendishly clever quality to the production of pop-friendly or nearly-pop-friendly songs like “All of the Lights” or “Runaway”, Graves is more than happy to validate you. In most cases, I found myself a convert.

That is not to say that this issue of the 33 1/3 series is without its faults. It feels that on occasion, Graves digs too deep to strike oil on analyses; it’s important that you agree with Graves on the conclusion that Kanye is intractably intertwined with the music he produces, or else all the talk of Kanye’s narcissism and aplomb in the text can become frustratingly psychoanalytical. However, to Graves’ credit, he generally avoids jargon and thesaurus-bombs in favor of flowery and just-short-of-excessive description, leaving it accessible to most learners interested in all the hoopla about Mr. West.

“My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy” (the book) is a superb look at how our society is feeding the Kanye machine, producing great works of maximalist conglomeration (as well as Yeezus, which even the author admits lacked the initial vitality of MBDTF). When Graves then opens up the machine to give the readers a look at the parts, he proves his credentials. In homage to his imagery-thick writing style, I offer my personal interpretation of his thesis, for you to decide whether or not to read his book:

Kanye is a pop-culture amalgam, accumulating the discarded love and scorn of the public eye, screaming from the mountaintop of public consciousness, Wi-Fi enabled, spotlights overhead, clutching a fistful of forgotten hooks and blistering verse, daring the cameras to look away. He is a one-man 24-hour news cycle channeling the ferocity of a boundless ego, repressed by men in suits in corner offices and sitting at talk-show desks. He’s producer, pariah, artist, child, deity, caricature and soon-to-be-king of pop all in one, and MBDTF is the promise."


Now, I never understood the fuss about Kanye West and I have not seen that he has had a big impact on anyone, although I have come across people saying to my face that he is a genius and much bigger and better than Michael Jackson (and no, this did not come from Kanye West's own mouth ;D).

So, I would be grateful if someone could enlighten me on what exactly the big deal is about him as an artist/cultural figure, because I fail to see it. Thanks!
 
Hah, you're just gonna rile up the board again with the thread title like that.

He's an extremely talented rapper and producer and has been very influential in that world, as well as crossing over and exposing hip hop (fans) to a lot of things that may not have liked or explored on their own (whether it's fashion, lyrical content, music, etc).

He's got an extremely huge ego and I find that really entertaining, especially when he goes on long rants about he's the best. A lot of people take him wayy too seriously when he boasts these things. I just sit back and let him rant.

Great live performer, too. Rare in the world of rap.

tumblr_mbar3t9BpV1qedpuyo1_250.gif

tumblr_mbar3t9BpV1qedpuyo2_250.gif

:D
 
:mello:

Kanye? Not hardly. No one can touch that sparkly and glittery bar Michael set impossibly high years ago. He remains legendary.
 
I love Kanye and find it annoying the media dismiss everything he says as simply another "rant". He too like Michael broke down some serious boundaries and did some very influential things but I honestly believe calling a rapper the King of Pop is simply laughable, he's obviously not a Pop star. His story about Michael and 808s and Heartbreaks is always funny too.
 
Galactus123 said:
To me he souns like that too:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/14/kanye-west-wheelchair_n_5818116.html
Click to expand...

When I heard about that story I felt a strong urge to take my walker and slap him. He's may be good in what he does artistically, I've never liked his music but I can respect some people do. There's nothing on having confidence in what you do and having high self esteem but he just crosses the to be a hideous cocky arrogant and to disrespect others with such a huge ego. Michael proved over and over he didn't need to be a jerk to be respected, loved and legendary, he was a class act and only himself could surpass Michael Jackson.
 
You have to understand that in the 33 1/3 series a writer may have some type of bias towards an album he writes about.

I don't think Kanye can be the "King of Pop" 1) because he is not a pop musician but a rapper, 2) because he is not popular enough for that. In short: he is not pop and not king. LOL.
 
King of rap? No. King of Pop? Hell no. Everyone can assume these modern artists (until they're blue in the face) that someone will take Michael Jackson's crown. Nobody will. Until I see a modern artist sell as many records as Michael,Elvis,and the Beatles combined and beat them all to the top of that list,win as many awards as Michael did,donate a lot of money to charities around the world,etc.,then MAYBE they can sit at Michael's table,but absolutely not in a million years will Kanye West be the king of anything but being an egocentric manic douche.
 
What a stupid article. Everyone knows that Lil Wayne is the new king of pop
 
analogue said:
What a stupid article. Everyone knows that Lil Wayne is the new king of pop
Click to expand...

LMAO absolutely!!

My god when I saw this thread an eye-roll sufficed I don't know who in their right mind would even consider Kanye in the same realm as Michael Jackson. I feel like the ones who spill that the mess that is that comment don't really know who Michael Jackson was or the impact that was made. Clearly their judgements is erratically flawed.
 
Trying to find a new king of pop to replace Michael is perfectly fine. But when you try to find a new king of rock n roll to replace Elvis and a new fab four the replace The Beatles then that's blasphemy
 
Original..I liked 808heartbreaks whatever[w hat was the story about Michael and that album ?] but I wouldn't say the mindset [workwise] is close to Michael. its not genius enough.Hes not a looker either. Little to no empathy so..
 
I think people need to realize that there literally can't be another "King of Pop" the same way there can't be another "The Boss" (Bruce Springsteen) It's simply a title. Not saying it's not a deserving title, because there is simply no arguing that MJ is the most successful and influential artist in history. Kanye West is extremely talented in my opinion, and I think he has one of the most impressive discographies of any artist in the past 10 years. But like I said before, "King of Pop" is a title that will forever be associated with Michael Jackson. The same way "The Fab 4" will always be associated with the Beatles, and "The King of Rock N Roll" will always be associated with Elvis Presley, and "The Godfather of Soul/The hardest working man in show business" will always be associated with James Brown. Kanye West has a similar thing with the whole "Yeezus" thing. But as far as "King of Pop" goes.. It will always be associated with MJ, and MJ will always be known as The King of Pop.
 
I like Kanye's songs but I think the reviews on My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy were extremly exaggerated and IMO it's not even HIS best album. No comment on that "soon to be king of pop" thing. Pa-lease.
 
Snow White luvs Peter Pan;4043512 said:
I've never understood how Kanye can have fans when he's a colossal asshole and egocentric.
Click to expand...

Because he's an incredible performer and makes some amazing music.

I don't think anyones going to deny that there are times when he's an asshole and egocentric, but I do think a lot of it is overconfidence, passion and frustration that is then twisted by the media. I remember he was getting really passionate about his love and passion for fashion, his frustration at how hard it is for a rapper to get into that industry and I remember so many people online laughing at him, also complaining about how he came off like an whiny arrogant douche.

I read this really good comment online a few weeks ago that I thought I'd share (in a shortened form, full version is here if you scroll down a bit):
"I think the media's treatment of him means the casual observer has a knee-jerk unwillingness to afford him enough credibility to engage with his ideas, and an impulse to dismiss him as both an artist and a person by labeling his intense conviction as narcissism, vanity or stupidity. He has a lot to say, but for all his mainstream success nobody is listening. "Look at the rapper trying to sound smart! Look how much he loves himself!" When Kanye speaks in interviews about what he perceives to be wrong with the world, people laugh.

He's spoken at length about how the only way to inspire the downtrodden to transcend social barriers is to show them someone who looks like them, who loves himself and is dreaming big, which is what he has always done - "To persuade people to take me seriously as an artist and to have people able to listen to my music... I'm still the same kid from Chicago, still knocking on the door, but the doors are heavier. I promise you we will break them."

His fans know that most of his songs, even the most "ego heavy" ones, are inner monologues laid bare that testify to his struggles. I can’t think of any other popular artists using such a huge platform to deliver worthwhile AND listenable social commentary, who are simultaneously treated with such derision as to be ignored and dismissed. I honestly think that because of our monochromatic media people simply aren’t used to seeing black rappers taking themselves seriously and speaking with conviction on charged issues (“George Bush doesn’t care about black people”) and because of that, it's hard for people to listen. If the public and the media can find a way to see past his self-confidence then they'd be able to listen to what he's actually saying, and then we can criticise him meaningfully rather than simply dismiss him as a moron or an egomaniac."

I think that last part is similar to Michael actually. Think of all the reviews about MJ-related material that go on about Michael being a weirdo. It's rare that we ever see a review not bring it up. I recall the author(?) of Michael Jackson Inc. complaining about how many reviews would dismiss the serious content of the book, instead often discussing or at least referencing how 'wacky' MJ was. If people could find a way to get past what they consider Mj's 'wackyness', then they could discuss him meaningfully rather than simply dismiss him as a w.acko as too many people actually do.

Maybe this post isn't entirely on topic, but it's about Kanye and I thought that comment brought some interesting points up (that actually somewhat relate to Michael I feel).
 
I will lose hope in humanity if they really are going to call him The King of Pop. I seriously will... what the hell is wrong with people?
 
HIStoric;4044526 said:
Because he's an incredible performer and makes some amazing music.

I don't think anyones going to deny that there are times when he's an asshole and egocentric, but I do think a lot of it is overconfidence, passion and frustration that is then twisted by the media. I remember he was getting really passionate about his love and passion for fashion, his frustration at how hard it is for a rapper to get into that industry and I remember so many people online laughing at him, also complaining about how he came off like an whiny arrogant douche.

I read this really good comment online a few weeks ago that I thought I'd share (in a shortened form, full version is here if you scroll down a bit):
"I think the media's treatment of him means the casual observer has a knee-jerk unwillingness to afford him enough credibility to engage with his ideas, and an impulse to dismiss him as both an artist and a person by labeling his intense conviction as narcissism, vanity or stupidity. He has a lot to say, but for all his mainstream success nobody is listening. "Look at the rapper trying to sound smart! Look how much he loves himself!" When Kanye speaks in interviews about what he perceives to be wrong with the world, people laugh.

He's spoken at length about how the only way to inspire the downtrodden to transcend social barriers is to show them someone who looks like them, who loves himself and is dreaming big, which is what he has always done - "To persuade people to take me seriously as an artist and to have people able to listen to my music... I'm still the same kid from Chicago, still knocking on the door, but the doors are heavier. I promise you we will break them."

His fans know that most of his songs, even the most "ego heavy" ones, are inner monologues laid bare that testify to his struggles. I can’t think of any other popular artists using such a huge platform to deliver worthwhile AND listenable social commentary, who are simultaneously treated with such derision as to be ignored and dismissed. I honestly think that because of our monochromatic media people simply aren’t used to seeing black rappers taking themselves seriously and speaking with conviction on charged issues (“George Bush doesn’t care about black people”) and because of that, it's hard for people to listen. If the public and the media can find a way to see past his self-confidence then they'd be able to listen to what he's actually saying, and then we can criticise him meaningfully rather than simply dismiss him as a moron or an egomaniac."

I think that last part is similar to Michael actually. Think of all the reviews about MJ-related material that go on about Michael being a weirdo. It's rare that we ever see a review not bring it up. I recall the author(?) of Michael Jackson Inc. complaining about how many reviews would dismiss the serious content of the book, instead often discussing or at least referencing how 'wacky' MJ was. If people could find a way to get past what they consider Mj's 'wackyness', then they could discuss him meaningfully rather than simply dismiss him as a w.acko as too many people actually do.

Maybe this post isn't entirely on topic, but it's about Kanye and I thought that comment brought some interesting points up (that actually somewhat relate to Michael I feel).
Click to expand...

I actually had the same conversation with a friend just few days ago. I got a link for a video of Kanye on a radio show where he got angry with the host even though he was on his side - I think u mention it in your post. All the comments were on how crazy Kanye is, but I listened to what he said (beyond his tantrum) and I really felt for him. Like people are just saying how crazy he is and not listening to any word coming out from his mouth. And fail to understand the injustice that's been going.

I told my friend (who's also a MJ fan) it's so typical of public and the media to complain about conspiracies and corruption but once a person from show business says he was a victim or a conspiracy, they call him a crazy paranoid and dismiss every thing he says. Numerous of times Michael's been called a paranoid (by fans too) for saying he's being chased for the catalog or for being black even though as times goes by facts are revealed and we find out just how RIGHT ON he was. Not comparing them or anything but there's some notion we can't ignore...

Now Kanye might be an egomaniac (like 90% of the current hollywood community) and I'm taken a back from some of his comments or his "tantrums", but he also good sides. I think he's one of the most talented rappers these days and even though I'm not into rap music, I own 2 of his albums. Plus, some of the things he says are not stupid and shouldn't be that easily dimissed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top