Previous Cases, Textbook Terms And Court Statistics

InvincibleMJ

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Started this on WR lawsuit thread and I don't want a derail the thread as we're waiting so I started a new one...

I know a lot of haters try to use statistics and textbook defintions against him but I think if we get to the core of it we'll see how these cases don't actually fit and can't be used against Michael.

Please note this is not about equaling some of the criminals to Michael. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the cases that we discuss (and whether the verdict was right or wrong). I hope we can discuss they dry facts of cases against sexual abusers (the amount of accusers, evidences that were found against them), false allegations statistics, false evidences, celebrity\rich people cases, cases that ended clearing the defendant, etc.


For example we know the prosecution of the 2005 case wanted to have Clemente as an expert witness to talk about the textbook profile of a pedophile and statistics of previous cases. Mesereau argued with statistics of false allegation when Clemente on the other hand said it's mostly among 5 years old (false memories). To that TM answered that 13 years olds lie more often than younger kids. Clemente said "it depeneds on the situation" :)doh:) and "they rarely lie about sexual abuse".

The child abuse is not even the main factor here, it's more about how often people lie in court, statistics of blackmails and how low people sink when they think can profit from lies.

These are the two cases Mesereau mentioned:

McMartin case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial
Bakersfield case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kern_County_child_abuse_cases
 
Films to watch.

McMartin trial


Wich Hunt documentary

 
Films to watch.

Wich Hunt documentary


Respect thank you so much for this movie! So overwhelming to watch :cry: I can't imagine the what it's like to be in prison for so long.

Few parts caught my attention -

They way the police man denied they don't have time to coach children is so untrue and it's clear the police and the DA spend a lot of time coaching "victims" and leading them to say things they want to say, as later shown in the tapes. Made me roll my eyes on their adamant statement that they never coach children, that "children don't lie" and "conspiracies never happen". Reminds me of "we don't have personal vendetta" :smilerolleyes: The tape reminded me of Corey's tape.

I'm glad these children came forward and told everyone they lied. I hope Michael's false accusers live with this kind of guilt and maybe one day they'll tell the truth too.

Also, when the accusers said they couldn't bathe their own babies I realized the experience of such interrogations and witnessing a man going through false allegation might cause a person to be afraid to be alone with their children. I find it very interesting.
 
Respect thank you so much for this movie! So overwhelming to watch :cry: I can't imagine the what it's like to be in prison for so long.

Few parts caught my attention -

They way the police man denied they don't have time to coach children is so untrue and it's clear the police and the DA spend a lot of time coaching "victims" and leading them to say things they want to say, as later shown in the tapes. Made me roll my eyes on their adamant statement that they never coach children, that "children don't lie" and "conspiracies never happen". Reminds me of "we don't have personal vendetta" :smilerolleyes: The tape reminded me of Corey's tape.

Yes, and Jason Francia.


I'm glad these children came forward and told everyone they lied. I hope Michael's false accusers live with this kind of guilt and maybe one day they'll tell the truth too.

I am not that optimistic because Michael's case is all about money and greed - unlike the cases in the documentary. Robson and Safechuck are making these allegations while they are adult to make money, so obviously they do not have any scruples to lie about such things. They are just fully amoral people and I am not expecting them to somehow suddenly turn moral later. The Arvizos? Those kids were raised to be schemers by their mother, so I am not expecting anything from them either. And Jordan seems to have convinced himself that not to upset his luxury life for a moment is more important than to set the record straight. It's a sad situation, but I do not expect any of these people suddenly get some morals if they had not before.

The kids in the documentary did not have a monetary motive to lie and did not have a monetary motive to keep up the lie while they were adults. And also some of the accusers in the doc were these people's own children, so that again is a different situation. And one other difference is that these people were put in jail. I can imagine that Robson and Safechuck are telling themselves this is OK because Michael cannot be put in jail, so in their mind they are not harming him (which is BS of course, but people have a way to excuse their own wrongdoings to themselves).
 
Yes, and Jason Francia.

His tape leaked too? Never heard it but even his mother's investigation sounds like they put words in her mouth so she can make sense.

I am not that optimistic because Michael's case is all about money and greed - unlike the cases in the documentary. Robson and Safechuck are making these allegations while they are adult to make money, so obviously they do not have any scruples to lie about such things. They are just fully amoral people and I am not expecting them to somehow suddenly turn moral later. The Arvizos? Those kids were raised to be schemers by their mother, so I am not expecting anything from them either. And Jordan seems to have convinced himself that not to upset his luxury life for a moment is more important than to set the record straight. It's a sad situation, but I do not expect any of these people suddenly get some morals if they had not before.

The kids in the documentary did not have a monetary motive to lie and did not have a monetary motive to keep up the lie while they were adults. And also some of the accusers in the doc were these people's own children, so that again is a different situation. And one other difference is that these people were put in jail. I can imagine that Robson and Safechuck are telling themselves this is OK because Michael cannot be put in jail, so in their mind they are not harming him (which is BS of course, but people have a way to excuse their own wrongdoings to themselves).

Eh. I'm not counting on Wade and James either, unless Wade is going to claim he had some kind of temporary insanity. I agree the jail is a factor. Wade and James probably don't think they harm MJ or don't care if they do (because they don't gain from their friendship anymore) and I think the Arvizos are more resentful because they lost the case. However I still have this little hope Jordan will come forward one day but sadly I think he's too afraid to do it. Maybe Jason too.
 
His tape leaked too? Never heard it but even his mother's investigation sounds like they put words in her mouth so she can make sense.

No, I did not say Francia's tape leaked. I said his interrogation was also coercive and inappropriate with the police basically forcing him into saying what they wanted to hear: http://michaeljacksonallegations.com/jason-francia/

Of course, in his case there was also the mother for whom it was financially lucrative if her son claimed something. So I think he got pressured from both sides.

However I still have this little hope Jordan will come forward one day but sadly I think he's too afraid to do it. Maybe Jason too.

To be honest Francia to me seems a bit retarded which is why he was probably an easy target for the police. And with his mother also using the allegations to cash-in I don't expect him to tell the truth either.
 
^ I agree about the tape. I'm hoping but I'm not holding my breath :ermm: This story didn't get a lot of media attention anyway.


conviction.jpg



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_(2010_film)

The movie "Conviction" from 2010 is based on a true story of a false murder accusation back in the 80's. The local police didn't like this man (Kenny Waters) and threatened witnesses & told them to say they saw him in the crime scene at the time of the murder. The conviction was based on their testimonies and Kenny's blood type. His sister went to law school to save him. After 18 years he was freed from prison. Kenny Waters was also part of the "Innocence Project" you can read his story here:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/cases-false-imprisonment/kenny-waters
 
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