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No Sleep (New Single)

MJJ梦舞诗话;4095725 said:
what‘s this？can you explain？
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Janet Jackson's new song called "No Sleep".
 
Sounds like Janet's gotten her groove back! :punk:

I hope the rest of the album holds up. I need to hear more tracks before I purchase the entire thing, lol!
 
How refreshing to hear a veteran artist make the kind of music the fans made them famous for instead of desperately playing catch-up to kids half their age. Well played Janet. No Sleep sounds vintage JJ to me. It could've been an outtake from the Janet album.... it's almost as if the last ten years of horrid techno music masquerading as R&B never happened.
 
Song could have come straight out of the 90's. I like it, fair play Janet!
 
"Plush."

I've already bought the single and listened many times. :blush:
 
I lost count on how many times I've listened to this. Very refreshing! Now, this is the summer jam, it's like Michael one year and next year is Janet all over again, in a sense.
 
I heard the song yesterday on a radio station (SWR 1) in Germany. Moderator introduced it as the new song from Janet Jackson, the little sister from Michael Jackson and a pop icon from the 90th. He also said a album will follow and that she announced a tour with America dates and maybe dates for Europe will follow.

The song starts on 40 on the worldwide i-tunes charts.

http://kworb.net/ww/
 
Janet really needs to rejuvenate her music & not just recycle the same R’n’B grooves & sounds. The lead single (‘No Sleep’) does not bring something new after eight years (probably due to lack of confidence/inspiration).

To be more specific, ‘No Sleep’ sounds like an outtake from her latest album (‘Discipline’) and is very similar to one of the songs of that album (‘Can’t B Good’). These two tracks really seem to have been recorded during the exact same period.

I expect the songs from her new album to have at least those aggressive elements (musically & lyrically) that appeared on some of her previous songs (for example, ‘What About’, ‘Trust a Try’, ‘This Time’) which can really work well when it comes to her music.
 
mj_frenzy;4096254 said:
Janet really needs to rejuvenate her music & not just recycle the same R’n’B grooves & sounds. The lead single (‘No Sleep’) does not bring something new after eight years (probably due to lack of confidence/inspiration).

To be more specific, ‘No Sleep’ sounds like an outtake from her latest album (‘Discipline’) and is very similar to one of the songs of that album (‘Can’t B Good’). These two tracks really seem to have been recorded during the exact same period.

I expect the songs from her new album to have at least those aggressive elements (musically & lyrically) that appeared on some of her previous songs (for example, ‘What About’, ‘Trust a Try’, ‘This Time’) which can really work well when it comes to her music.
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Janet is almost 50 years old. 50 years old artists generally do not innovate. Look at Prince. At his peak he's been very innovative and creative, but he is not really any more. In popular music I think the creative peak of an artist is in his/her 20s-30s. Old artists can opt for two ways: 1) they do what Madonna does, trying to keep up with today's trends, but that looks awkward from a ~50-years-old artist. Also an artist like Madonna or Janet naturally has her own old fanbase which is also made of people who are of a different generation than today's teenagers. And those people may want to hear the music they fell in love with from that artist. 2) they can go back and bring back a taste of the old music their core fan base tends to like. That's what Janet opted for. That No Sleeep is a mellow, slow tempo song does not mean that all of the album will be like that. I am sure there are some up tempo songs on it as well. When That's The Way Love Goes came out that too was criticized for being a bad choice for a lead single. Then look what happened.
 
It`s 69 after 3 days on the worldwide i-tunes chart. Best country as expected USA (34).
http://kworb.net/ww/

Maybe the song will get a rise after Bet-awards.
 
It's actually refreshing that it's not a song like "So Excited" or "Feedback" as a first single.
I just hope the followup one is uptempo.
This doesn't seem like a SINGLE material.
But in any case, it's a nice song. Just not one I'd pick to put out first.
I wish she sang the whole song the way she does towards the end without the layering(without all the breathy layered vocals).
 
respect77;4096289 said:
Janet is almost 50 years old. 50 years old artists generally do not innovate. Look at Prince. At his peak he's been very innovative and creative, but he is not really any more. In popular music I think the creative peak of an artist is in his/her 20s-30s. Old artists can opt for two ways: 1) they do what Madonna does, trying to keep up with today's trends, but that looks awkward from a ~50-years-old artist. Also an artist like Madonna or Janet naturally has her own old fanbase which is also made of people who are of a different generation than today's teenagers. And those people may want to hear the music they fell in love with from that artist. 2) they can go back and bring back a taste of the old music their core fan base tends to like. That's what Janet opted for. That No Sleeep is a mellow, slow tempo song does not mean that all of the album will be like that. I am sure there are some up tempo songs on it as well. When That's The Way Love Goes came out that too was criticized for being a bad choice for a lead single. Then look what happened.
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As regards Janet, I think there is a third option: to find a happy medium between her basic R’n’B roots & new trends (directions).

But, judging by her lead single (‘No Sleep’), I am afraid that Janet’s comeback will not break new ground in music after eight years. She has already decided to play it safe by releasing an R’n’B lead single (by the way, her rainy/thunderous song intros are becoming extremely predictable & annoying) &, moreover, she has already planned to perform (firstly) to an audience that is, for the most part, particularly fond of that kind of music.

Regarding Madonna, although I agree that it may look awkward on her, it does not mean necessarily that the same applies to Janet.

Finally, I think Prince is a completely different artist who cannot be confined to norms or generalizations because he is in a league of his own.
 
Does new ground always have to be broken in music. By now they're can't be any new ground.

I agree about artists in their 20s and 30s because they're also influenced by the music they grew up with and were influenced by.

Every single old school artist that I've seen interviewed in the last 2 years say Bruno Mars when asked about current artists. Without exception. Everything old is new again.
 
mj_frenzy;4096442 said:
But, judging by her lead single (‘No Sleep’), I am afraid that Janet’s comeback will not break new ground in music after eight years. .
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When was the last time a 50-year-old artist broke new grounds?

Finally, I think Prince is a completely different artist who cannot be confined to norms or generalizations because he is in a league of his own.
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Why would Prince be above criticism? The fact is that his new music is not as good or innovative as his music in the 80s was and his fans would be the first to admit that. And that was exactly my point. That even a very creative artist like Prince runs out of ideas by the age of 50-60. 50-60 year old artists generally are not the innovators and trend setters in this industry. So I don't think it's fair to expect something groundbreaking from Janet - whether creatively or commercially. If she can make her fans happy and if she can have a moderately successful album then I think she can be happy and satisfied.
 
Didn`t make Madonna her fans happy? Her first week-charts shows she has a strong fan-base behind her worldwide. Comments in the Madonna-thread in this forum were positiv and dind`t she even got good critics for her album in the news-papers.. She did live-appearences on many great award shows and I think on her tour she will be able to fill the big arenas.
For me it more seems more she lost the big appeal to the general public, which is als indicated in the album-sales-drops in the second week. 2012 she was 53 and her album MDNA was also 1 in UK and USA.

But first week is still impressive.

Charts Rebell Heart
Chart (2015)

Peak
position

Australian Albums (ARIA)[175] 1
Austrian Albums (Ö3 Austria)[176] 1
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Flanders)[177] 1
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Wallonia)[178] 2
Brazilian Albums (ABPD)[179] 4
Canadian Albums (Billboard)[180] 1
Croatian Albums (HDU)[181] 3
Czech Albums (ČNS IFPI)[155] 1
Danish Albums (Hitlisten)[182] 2
Dutch Albums (MegaCharts)[156] 1
Finnish Albums (Suomen virallinen lista)[183] 2
French Albums (SNEP)[184] 3
German Albums (Official Top 100)[151] 1
Greek Albums (IFPI)[157] 3
Hungarian Albums (MAHASZ)[185] 1
Irish Albums (IRMA)[186] 5
Italian Albums (FIMI)[187] 1
Japanese Albums (Oricon)[162] 8
Japanese International Albums (Oricon)[163] 1
Korean International Albums (Gaon)[164]
Deluxe version 1
New Zealand Albums (Recorded Music NZ)[161] 7
Norwegian Albums (VG-lista)[188] 2
Polish Albums (ZPAV)[189] 5
Portuguese Albums (AFP)[190] 1
Russian Albums (2M)[191] 2
Scottish Albums (OCC)[192] 3
Spanish Albums (PROMUSICAE)[193] 1
Swedish Albums (Sverigetopplistan)[194] 10
Swiss Albums (Schweizer Hitparade)[195] 1
UK Albums (OCC)[196] 2
US Billboard 200[197] 2

____________

Tina Turner I think had the peak of her carrer betwenn 45 and 55.


___________

Edit: worldwide i-tunes-charts

No Sleeep: 143, USA: 54

OT: LNFSG: 163
 
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respect77 said:
When was the last time a 50-year-old artist broke new grounds?

Why would Prince be above criticism? The fact is that his new music is not as good or innovative as his music in the 80s was and his fans would be the first to admit that. And that was exactly my point. That even a very creative artist like Prince runs out of ideas by the age of 50-60. 50-60 year old artists generally are not the innovators and trend setters in this industry. So I don't think it's fair to expect something groundbreaking from Janet - whether creatively or commercially. If she can make her fans happy and if she can have a moderately successful album then I think she can be happy and satisfied.
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Metrics (as a way of measuring success or even breaking new ground in music) have been changing all the time. This applies also to older artists, so I think the first question does not make sense.

I did not say that Prince is above criticism.

Also, to claim that Prince must have run out of ideas (due to his age) really sounds like a rather prejudiced & unfair point of view. Creativity & age are not always inversely proportional & claiming the opposite sounds like a rather narrow way of thinking.

In regard to Janet, I cannot tell for sure what exactly would make her happy & satisfied as far as her career is concerned (in fact, I think nobody can).
 
Some people just can't get out of their comfort zone, Janet's music is r&b and pop for the most part and she wasn't 50 in her peak. That latest song indeed sounds like it came from her 90's albums.

At least Michael didn't get stuck with the winning formula because one if his many motivations to create music was to be a pioneer. It seems just a few had that capacity:

“I think a great artist should be able to create any style, any form, anything from rock to pop to gospel to spiritual, just wonderful music where everybody can sing it…” – Michael Jackson
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We have a little idea what Michael was recording in those last years but those songs aren't even the final product.
 
mj_frenzy;4096617 said:
Metrics (as a way of measuring success or even breaking new ground in music) have been changing all the time. This applies also to older artists, so I think the first question does not make sense.
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Let's see.

You said:

I am afraid that Janet’s comeback will not break new ground in music after eight years.
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Then I asked you to name an artist about her age that did break new ground in popular music. So how does that question suddenly not make any sense when you were the one who brought up "breaking grounds"? Please define what you mean by "breaking grounds" then.

Also, to claim that Prince must have run out of ideas (due to his age) really sounds like a rather prejudiced & unfair point of view. Creativity & age are not always inversely proportional & claiming the opposite sounds like a rather narrow way of thinking.
Click to expand...


Prejudice? No, it's an observation. There does seem to be a correlation between age and creativity in popular music. Most pop/rock stars achieve their creative peaks, most influential works in their 20-30s, not 50-60s. That's just a general tendency which is difficult to dispute. Or if you want to dispute it then please give examples rather than just dismissing my opinion as prejudiced and narrow-minded with no counter argument given. Maybe you will be able to find one or two artists who created their most important, most groundbreaking works at their 50-60s in popular music as opposed to their 20-30s, but I am sure that still will be the rare exception rather than the rule.
 
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Annita said:
Didn`t make Madonna her fans happy?
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I don't know how happy or unhappy her fans are, but I'm sure Rebel Heart will not go into history as one of Madonna's best albums.

And Madonna has always been massively supported by the mainstream media and she has a loyal hard core fan base and she's always been great at marketing (eg. featuring so many current artists in the video for her current single was an obvious marketing move). Janet has been somewhat blacklabelled by the US media since 2004 which was even admitted by some big boss recently. So I think Janet has a bit of a disadvantage there. And yes, we can also admit that Janet has never been as big as Madonna - especially internationally. Is that supposed to be a shame now and a reason to not to release music?

In any case, I prefer the sound of No Sleeep to anything that is on Rebel Heart - but I know taste is subjective. I also prefer Janet to stick to her comfort zone (even if to some here it appears to be a negative thing) rather than looking desperate in trying to catch up with trends that do not suit her. The talking point was "groundbreaking" and while I do not think No Sleeep is groundbreaking (nor I think it has to be to be enjoyable), I don't think that Rebel Heart is groundbreaking either.
 
^^I don't think Janet is being blackballed by the US media any longer. I've seen dozens of news reports with anchors going absolutely crazy over her and her music.
Of course most of these people are Janet's age or younger but they seem ecstatic. Their excitement is quite amazing-but I'm happy for her.
I was never a Janet fan for herself, but I always felt the Super Bowl thing was horrendously unfair.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Finally, I think Prince is a completely different artist who cannot be confined to norms or generalizations because he is in a league of his own.
Click to expand...

mj_frenzy said:
Also, to claim that Prince must have run out of ideas (due to his age) really sounds like a rather prejudiced & unfair point of view. Creativity & age are not always inversely proportional & claiming the opposite sounds like a rather narrow way of thinking.
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Very much agreed. A fan of Prince would know Prince's issue in the music industry at 50+ is the exact same issue he had in the music industry when he was 20. Prince could not effectively be categorized because he did not express an interest in creating radio-friendly music.

respect77 said:
And yes, we can also admit that Janet has never been as big as Madonna - especially internationally.
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sigh

I personally do not remember Janet being blackballed by U.S. media.
 
Who talked about radio friendly music or commercial success? The point I was replying to was that Janet's new music is not groundbreaking enough. It is not groundbreaking but does it have to be? And once again I ask: what was the last time a 50-year-old artist put out groundbreaking music?

Prince may not aspire to put out radio friendly music any more, but that's besides the point. It does not mean that we cannot say anything about the quality of his music and whether it is better or worse, more innovative or not than the music he did at his peak. I know that music is subjective but you will have a hard time finding people even among hard core Prince fans who will say Rock and Roll Affair or Breakfast Can Wait are up there with his classics. If anything his fans on Prince.org bash him all the time for not putting out anything good for more than 10 years (that's the opinion a lot of them have at least). My point was that artists rarely produce groundbreaking music in their 50-60s. That is true of even such a creative force as Prince. That was the whole point, not the radio-friendliness or commerciality of Prince's music. They just either want to cater to their old fan base (a path Janet seemed have chosen) or try to appeal to younger generations by following current trends (eg. Madonna). Or they may just not care, like Prince, but not caring that does not mean Prince's new music is groundbreaking. It is not.

I just don't think Janet has anything to prove any more. If she wants to do the kind of music that she did in the 90s and if she wants to be in her comfort zone why is that wrong? She's not going to produce her most groundbreaking work now and she's probably not going to compete with current acts on the charts, but who does of her generation? Madonna has a different approach and Prince has a different approach, but fact is that neither of these approaches resulted in groundbreaking new music.


sigh

I personally do not remember Janet being blackballed by U.S. media.
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Later in February 2004
The NFL, upset that their Super Bowl was overshadowed by a halftime performance, respond immediately. “We were extremely disappointed by elements of the MTV-produced halftime show," NFL executive vice president Joe Browne said at the time. "They were totally inconsistent with assurances our office was given about the content of the show. It's unlikely that MTV will produce another Super Bowl halftime." CBS and MTV’s parent company Viacom, angered that an unannounced addition to the Super Bowl performance has now cost them all future halftime shows, hits back at Jackson by essentially blacklisting her, keeping her music videos off their properties MTV, VH1, and radio stations under their umbrella. The blacklist spreads to include non-Viacom media entities as well.
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March 22nd, 2004Damita Jo, Jackson’s eighth album, arrives roughly five weeks after her Super Bowl performance. Thanks to the radio and music television blacklist, the LP underperforms compared to Janet’s previous releases. However, and perhaps propelled by all the controversy, Damita Jo still sells enough first week copies to debut at Number Two on the Billboard 200. Despite the backlash, the album eventually goes platinum several times over.
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January 2014
A decade removed from Nipplegate, former FCC chairman Michael Powell admits that the committee acted "unfairly" toward Janet Jackson following the incident. He tells ESPN that the FCC overreacted. "I personally thought that was really unfair. It all turned into being about her," Powell said. "In reality, if you slow the thing down, it's Justin ripping off her breastplace." The comments are a complete turnaround from Powell’s own words 10 years earlier, when he called Nipplegate "a new low from primetime TV."
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http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/nipple-ripples-10-years-of-fallout-from-janet-jacksons-halftime-show-20140130
 
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Didn't Gerardo ask Michael about that incident and Michael agreed that the press was giving her a hard time bc she was a Jackson? I remember reading about the radio blacklist at the time.
 
respect77;4096653 said:
Let's see.

You said:

Then I asked you to name an artist about her age that did break new ground in popular music. So how does that question suddenly not make any sense when you were the one who brought up "breaking grounds"? Please define what you mean by "breaking grounds" then.

Prejudice? No, it's an observation. There does seem to be a correlation between age and creativity in popular music. Most pop/rock stars achieve their creative peaks, most influential works in their 20-30s, not 50-60s. That's just a general tendency which is difficult to dispute. Or if you want to dispute it then please give examples rather than just dismissing my opinion as prejudiced and narrow-minded with no counter argument given. Maybe you will be able to find one or two artists who created their most important, most groundbreaking works at their 50-60s in popular music as opposed to their 20-30s, but I am sure that still will be the rare exception rather than the rule.
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Breaking new ground in music means to do something that the public has never heard or seen before (or even to create a totally new artistic field). If artists (before Janet) achieved that (or not) in their 50’s, it is of little importance because there is no correlation necessarily between what those artists achieved & Janet will achieve.

Also, when observations (originated from previous works) are used to predict & condemn future (artistic) attempts then these observations are automatically turned into prejudices. Artistic rebirths (irrespective of the age) happen all the time & will continue to happen. Also, to limit creativity/inspiration to certain ages does not make sense & is rather unacceptable when it comes to music.

Regarding Janet, I expressed my opinion judging by her intentions that she has already showed to us (‘No Sleep’, concert venues). Also, I hope that Janet will at least try to experiment with new sounds/ideas as she did successfully in the past (‘China Love’, ‘So Much Betta’, for example) instead of being stuck again to the same things (pointless interludes, prosy ballads, etc.).

respect77;4096729 said:
Who talked about radio friendly music or commercial success? The point I was replying to was that Janet's new music is not groundbreaking enough. It is not groundbreaking but does it have to be? And once again I ask: what was the last time a 50-year-old artist put out groundbreaking music?

Prince may not aspire to put out radio friendly music any more, but that's besides the point. It does not mean that we cannot say anything about the quality of his music and whether it is better or worse, more innovative or not than the music he did at his peak. I know that music is subjective but you will have a hard time finding people even among hard core Prince fans who will say Rock and Roll Affair or Breakfast Can Wait are up there with his classics. If anything his fans on Prince.org bash him all the time for not putting out anything good for more than 10 years (that's the opinion a lot of them have at least). My point was that artists rarely produce groundbreaking music in their 50-60s. That is true of even such a creative force as Prince. That was the whole point, not the radio-friendliness or commerciality of Prince's music. They just either want to cater to their old fan base (a path Janet seemed have chosen) or try to appeal to younger generations by following current trends (eg. Madonna). Or they may just not care, like Prince, but not caring that does not mean Prince's new music is groundbreaking. It is not.

I just don't think Janet has anything to prove any more. If she wants to do the kind of music that she did in the 90s and if she wants to be in her comfort zone why is that wrong? She's not going to produce her most groundbreaking work now and she's probably not going to compete with current acts on the charts, but who does of her generation? Madonna has a different approach and Prince has a different approach, but fact is that neither of these approaches resulted in groundbreaking new music.



http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/nipple-ripples-10-years-of-fallout-from-janet-jacksons-halftime-show-20140130
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Regarding Prince, his (strategic) moves cannot be taken for granted. He has already proven that he is probably the most unpredictable artist in the world & his constant appeal/success may be also because of this.
 
mj_frenzy;4096753 said:
Breaking new ground in music means to do something that the public has never heard or seen before (or even to create a totally new artistic field).
Click to expand...

OK, because that's how I understood it as well.

If artists (before Janet) achieved that (or not) in their 50’s, it is of little importance because there is no correlation necessarily between what those artists achieved & Janet will achieve.
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The fact is that it happens rarely (if ever) that a 50-60-year old artists breaks new grounds in popular music. I don't know why is that but that's the fact. And if we do not set such high standards for other artists then why do we set it for Janet? Is that fair?

Also, when observations (originated from previous works) are used to predict & condemn future (artistic) attempts then these observations are automatically turned into prejudices. Artistic rebirths (irrespective of the age) happen all the time & will continue to happen. Also, to limit creativity/inspiration to certain ages does not make sense & is rather unacceptable when it comes to music.
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I do not limit anything. I simply point out a fact, which is that you do not see many (if any at all) 50-60-year-old artists in popular music who set new standards or do groundbreaking things in music. To pont this fact out is not a prejudice but a simple fact. If you do not think it is a fact you should give examples rather than just dismissing my position as "prejudice" and "not making sense", "narrow-minded", "unacceptable" and whatnot. Rather than just labelling my opinion I'd be more interested in actual facts and arguments about why it is fair to expect this from Janet when we do not expect it from anyone else from her peers? Is there a reason for why you expect more from her artistically than Prince or Madonna? Do you hold her in higher regards artistically?

And I do not want to make it about Prince, but his appeal and success has been far from being "constant", but again your reply was pretty much besides the points I was making.
 
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Respect77, I am not inserting myself into the groundbreaking discussion. I only wanted to agree with MJ_Frenzy’s points that Prince is indeed in a league of his own and Prince has not “run out of ideas” because he is 50+. Online fans on Prince.org will bash Prince for every reason under the sun and still idolize the man. They simply have a different method of showing adoration (similar to another MJ online forum) that I would not personally accept as fact. As you said, that is their opinion. It is the view of a majority on an online forum which should not be confused with the majority of Prince fans; it is simply opinion.

Prince never aspired to release radio-friendly music which allowed him to be, for the most part, uncategorized. That speaks to him as an artist who does continue to enjoy success and some would say that made him a pioneer, i.e. groundbreaker and they continue to view him and his music as such. Those are two separate discussions. I am unsure if you are confusing commercial success with the merits of artistic work which will dictate groundbreaking work. Example: many have said Michael’s artistic peak/most groundbreaking work was Thriller because of its commercial success however; many would say his artistic peak would be his more mature albums, i.e., Dangerous, and/or later works.

As for Janet, I said: “I personally do not remember Janet being blackballed by U.S. media.” A little more research would show she was embraced by some non-Viacom outlets. This is very similar to outlets who did not shun Michael in 2005. Those were mostly R/B-outlets (her roots as another poster stated) such as BET which is where I saw her promoting Damita Jo and where her video for the album was aired. R/B radio stations continued to play her as well and the commercial success of Damita Jo meant the methods used by these Viacom outlets and some non-Viacom outlets were not necessarily successful.

Adding: to prevent confusion that all non-Viacom outlets were R/B oriented, they were not. Here is Janet performing All Nite (Don't Stop) on Jay Leno's late night U.S. show.

[video=youtube;HfSpp3IJ3tM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfSpp3IJ3tM[/video]
 
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