Michael Jackson is #34 on Rolling Stone Magazine's 100 Greatest Songwriters........

Psychoniff

Proud Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
933
Points
0
I'm am somewhat happy with his position on the list although I think they could have been a bit more persuasive with the information about his impact on songwriting.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-songwriters

Here's what I would have said:

As a songwriter he was brilliant at evoking pathos to communicate and translate to his audience the feel of every word. His use of different writing styles such as dramatic prose to create tension and suspense in songs such as "Who Is It" and "Billie Jean", narrative/storytelling to unravel tales metaphorical of his own life experiences in songs like "Price Of Fame" and "Heartbreak Hotel", monologues/soliloquies to reveal inner turmoil and contradictions in songs such "Dangerous" and "Will You Be There", and stream-of-consciousness to evoke a sense of urgency and desperation in songs like "Jam" and "Tabloid Junkie". He also covered many themes in his lyrics from the femme fatale is tales such "Dirty Diana" to more serious socially-conscious anthems from the Cold War-era inspired " Be Not Always", ecological destruction in "Earth Song" to anti-war sentiments in "We've Had Enough". He also employed other nifty tricks to enhanced the listening experience or advantage or coda the the song's narrative like spoken raps, rapping, beatboxing (including as part of arrangements) and scat singing.
 
Last edited:
Link that works http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-songwriters (sorry, for some reason half the link was missing :p)

From a writing perspective, I don't think he's my #1 favourite songwriter anymore, but I still think Michael's rank should've been higher. As for what position, I don't know as I'm not familiar enough with the songwriting of many of the artists ranked above him.

But at the end of the day, lists like these never really bother me because it really is nothing more than just an opinion piece by a few journalists. Great write up btw Psychoniff :)
 
I don't know how Rolling Stone is when it comes to Michael. Since I don't think I ever remember hearing how they were with him. But still he should have been in the top 10. Or at the most the top 5. Apparently the people who run that magazine. Haven't heard his songs Stranger In Moscow, Earth Song, Who Is It, and Billie Jean. Most especially Who Is It. Where I think it is the most greatest song ever written.
 
To be fair, I always thought that too-but the more docs I see or books I read about musicians, I realize they're prejudiced against a lot of greats-white or black. The rankings on this whole list is a little ridiculous.
 
Pretty rigged list. Most of the Top are 1960s and earlier, Bob Marley is the highest ranking post 1970 one at #16. Even my man Prince who is like the greatest songwriter of all time in my book gets to only number #18. MJ deserves to be much higher, most of the songs on Bad, Dangerous and History should make that patently obvious.

Also I think they have tried to include as many rappers (So they can't be accused of being racist) and modern sugary acts like Taylor Swift who is very untalented and can only write country and western style break up songs. I mean she is #97 and Notorious BIG is #52, whereas as talented people like Alvin Tousaaint is at #77, Sly Stone at #44 and even Stevie Wonder is only at #15.
 
This is Rolling Stone for you. I knew they would have Dylan and the Beatles in the Top 3 before even looking. They are THAT predictable. I don't know why even bother with these lists any more. :smilerolleyes:
 
Pretty rigged list. Most of the Top are 1960s and earlier, Bob Marley is the highest ranking post 1970 one at #16. Even my man Prince who is like the greatest songwriter of all time in my book gets to only number #18. MJ deserves to be much higher, most of the songs on Bad, Dangerous and History should make that patently obvious.

Also I think they have tried to include as many rappers (So they can't be accused of being racist) and modern sugary acts like Taylor Swift who is very untalented and can only write country and western style break up songs. I mean she is #97 and Notorious BIG is #52, whereas as talented people like Alvin Tousaaint is at #77, Sly Stone at #44 and even Stevie Wonder is only at #15.

That's interesting, I didn't notice.

Prince was great but I don't think the constant lyrics about sex show much willingness to be versatile.
 
Last edited:
I wish I'd get famous just to tell how much better MJ is than most of the top 30. Idk where this misinformation that MJ didn't write most of his hits or MJ was only an entertainer became popular, but I do know how much damage it's gonna cause to Michael's legacy.

How many people can write and produce a song as complex as Billie Jean, or such brilliantly woven sexual tension as in In The Closet, or describe a tragedy so saddeningly as in Little Susie? Not Prince! Smooth Criminal, Will You Be There, Who Is It, Stranger In Moscow, Beat It, Don't Stop Till You Get Enough, They Don't Care About Us, Tabloid Junkie - such diversity, such versitality. To be able to write lyrics with themes ranging from teenage romance to political wars, from unnoticed crime scenes to global anthems. I mean, how underrated could MJ - probably the most famous megastar all across the globe - really be? His singing is criticized, his dancing is criticized (yes, it is), his songwriting is criticized - every talent of his is said to be "mediocre" or maybe a little above mediocre. The only stuff he gets full credit for are his live performances and music videos. Of course this is mostly done by the old, biased and probably white critics but still..

Having said all this, I'm surprised Michael made the Top 50 - since he mostly wrote teenage fluff according to the rock magazines.
 
This is Rolling Stone for you. I knew they would have Dylan and the Beatles in the Top 3 before even looking. They are THAT predictable. I don't know why even bother with these lists any more. :smilerolleyes:

But as weird as this sounds, I'm ok with this.
 
I wish I'd get famous just to tell how much better MJ is than most of the top 30. Idk where this misinformation that MJ didn't write most of his hits or MJ was only an entertainer became popular, but I do know how much damage it's gonna cause to Michael's legacy.

How many people can write and produce a song as complex as Billie Jean, or such brilliantly woven sexual tension as in In The Closet, or describe a tragedy so saddeningly as in Little Susie? Not Prince! Smooth Criminal, Will You Be There, Who Is It, Stranger In Moscow, Beat It, Don't Stop Till You Get Enough, They Don't Care About Us, Tabloid Junkie - such diversity, such versitality. To be able to write lyrics with themes ranging from teenage romance to political wars, from unnoticed crime scenes to global anthems. I mean, how underrated could MJ - probably the most famous megastar all across the globe - really be? His singing is criticized, his dancing is criticized (yes, it is), his songwriting is criticized - every talent of his is said to be "mediocre" or maybe a little above mediocre. The only stuff he gets full credit for are his live performances and music videos. Of course this is mostly done by the old, biased and probably white critics but still..

Having said all this, I'm surprised Michael made the Top 50 - since he mostly wrote teenage fluff according to the rock magazines.

That's why i'm so surprised he beat out Morrisey, Elton John, David Bowie and many other 'gods' of music songwriting according to rock critics. you are right about every point here, he is criminally underrated as a lyricist, his versatility as songwriter is insane considering how wide-ranging he was as a singer and a dancer. In fact, if their was one word to describe the musical/artist/creative legacy of MJ I think the most appropriate term would have to VERSATILITY!!!!
 
I grew up listening to the Beatles but many of the Lennon-McCartney songs are an acid trip (not all but many of them,) it was the 60s after all and LSD was the fashionable drug of choice, Dylan is a superior lyricist than the Lennon-McCartney duo, they wrote more coherent lyrics in their solo career IMO. If Dylan is no. 1, I don't wanna go through the whole list to see it, it doesn't surprise me, the mag is named after one of his songs after all, I'm not sure if he's in reality the best but he is superior to many of that list.

I know RS is walking joke but how come is Prince better writer than Michael to them? Many of his most famous songs are a different allegory about having sex while Michael wrote about a different variety of topics which are still relevant in today's society. He should have been in the top 5 or at least top ten but we're taking about a bunch of racist pricks running a bias white magazine who thought his success with Off The Wall wasn't worth a front cover and gave it to The Cars (who are they today?) instead. So F-U-C-K Rolling Stone magazine!
 
It's sad, because a lot of music snobs don't view Michael as a real songwriter. Only because he didn't play any instruments.

Someone on stage strumming on a guitar or playing a piano
People's reaction: ''Wow, what an artists! That person is a real songwriter!''

Someone on stage singing and dancing like MJ
People's reaction: ''He's a good entertainer, but he's no artists. He doesn't play any instruments''


And what's funny is that Eric Clapton is a fantastic guitarist, but he wrote very few of his songs, but music snobs would consider him to be more of a songwriter than Michael just because he plays guitar
 
It's like these critics/magazines purposefully ignore HIStory and BotDF and to some extent Dangerous too. The songwriting in all three of these albums is simply phenomenal and still is very applicable to this society. I mean, Working Class Hero can be praised (I think it's excellent BTW) but They Don't Care About Us is forgotten. Imagine is praised, but Earth Song is discarded as "Messiah Complex". Stranger in Moscow, Jam, Morphine... I don't know how these lyrical masterpieces get overlooked so easily.
 
Resisting the urge not to rant :scratch:

I cracked. 34th!!!!! How do you DOMINATE the music industry for almost your entire life (with mostly self written hits), and not get in the top 10 best songwriters of all time ? I don't even know why I get worked over a magazine that hasn't relevant for 15 years...
 
It's like these critics/magazines purposefully ignore HIStory and BotDF and to some extent Dangerous too. The songwriting in all three of these albums is simply phenomenal and still is very applicable to this society. I mean, Working Class Hero can be praised (I think it's excellent BTW) but They Don't Care About Us is forgotten. Imagine is praised, but Earth Song is discarded as "Messiah Complex". Stranger in Moscow, Jam, Morphine... I don't know how these lyrical masterpieces get overlooked so easily.

Even if they do dismiss his 90's work, he still deserves to be at least in the top 10 for songs like Don't Stop Til You Get Enough, Heartbreak Hotel, Wanna Be Startin Somethin, Billie Jean, The Way You Make Me Feel, Another Part Of Me, Liberian Girl, Dirty Diana and Smooth Criminal
 
Great that he's on there. But as soon as you see the ABBA guys are at the bottom in #100, you can pretty much ignore it!
 
Interesting, Abba should be so much higher, besides their own mega selling hits they wrote songs like I know him so well and One night in Bangkok as well. Prince sang more than sex Psychokniff, listen to songs like "Nothing compares 2 u", "Love thy will be done", "Empty Room", "Money don't matter 2nite", "I love u but don't trust u anymore", "Cinnamon Girl", "Dear Mr Man", "1 + 1 + 1 = 3". Then his work for satellite artists, Cool, The Walk, A Love Bizarre, Manic Monday, Stand Back, With this tear, Eternity, 5 Women.

Prince can also arrange the music, add on harmony layers of vocals, bass, guitars, keys, pianos, maracas and everything you want. Prince's early songs are about sex, but they were also about Love and Faith "The Holy River, God, The Ladder, The Word" and most of his later songs explore love. Ever listened to a song like Adore or anything else off Sign o the Times. Yes MJ got accussed of writing teenage fluff, but Village Voice and all the Critics loved Prince. Plus think of the unmistakable pop classics like 1999, LRC, When Doves Cry, Purple Rain and Kiss. If that is not jangly well written pop, what is?

If this list was properly done, Prince would be Top 5 and Michael would be at about 8 or 9.
 
Interesting, Abba should be so much higher, besides their own mega selling hits they wrote songs like I know him so well and One night in Bangkok as well. Prince sang more than sex Psychokniff, listen to songs like "Nothing compares 2 u", "Love thy will be done", "Empty Room", "Money don't matter 2nite", "I love u but don't trust u anymore", "Cinnamon Girl", "Dear Mr Man", "1 + 1 + 1 = 3". Then his work for satellite artists, Cool, The Walk, A Love Bizarre, Manic Monday, Stand Back, With this tear, Eternity, 5 Women.

Prince can also arrange the music, add on harmony layers of vocals, bass, guitars, keys, pianos, maracas and everything you want. Prince's early songs are about sex, but they were also about Love and Faith "The Holy River, God, The Ladder, The Word" and most of his later songs explore love. Ever listened to a song like Adore or anything else off Sign o the Times. Yes MJ got accussed of writing teenage fluff, but Village Voice and all the Critics loved Prince. Plus think of the unmistakable pop classics like 1999, LRC, When Doves Cry, Purple Rain and Kiss. If that is not jangly well written pop, what is?

If this list was properly done, Prince would be Top 5 and Michael would be at about 8 or 9.

Do mine eyes decieve me? I guess not. Prince is preferred over Michael only because of these two reasons:

1. Prince had a much easier life.
2. Prince could play instruments.

Nothing else Prince has done is on par with Michael on a global scale. He might be legendary in your book, but much of the East hasn't even heard about him.

Let's take an example; has Prince written about sex? Yes. Has Michael Jackson written about sex? Yes again.

Has Prince written party anthems? Yes. Has MJ written party anthems? Yes again.

Has Prince written about the way man treats nature? Probably not. Has MJ done it? Yes.

Has Prince written anti war anthems? No. Has MJ done it? Yes.

Has Prince written anything other than what black people are supposed to write about (as per the stereotype)? Probably not. Has MJ done it? Absolutely.

It was MJ who brought black music into the mainstream, not Prince. It's MJ who's celebrated all over the globe, who's so famous that it seems like his name is hardwired into every human being. When talking about western music, there isn't even a single instance when the TV person doesn't mention MJ at least once. It's MJ whose songs like "They Don't Care About Us" and "Earth Song" and "Beat It" and "Bad" and "Black or White" are chanted all across the world. Not Prince.

I'm sorry I became a little too sentimental or whatever. But people diss MJ just because of his hard life. Just because he was vulnerable and loving and too giving he suffered so much loss. This stuff makes me really really mad. He's as revolutionary an artist as John Lennon, even more in some aspects. Don't agree? Look at how inmates in jails all over the world dance to MJ's songs which were released decades ago. Or how people gather around the screen when his music videos or performances are shown in public. How many people can write the stuff he did?

I apologize again, but this really pisses me off. And I had to get it out.
 
It was MJ who brought black music into the mainstream, not Prince.
It was neither. Scott Joplin did it with ragtime in the early 1900s. Then Louis Armstrong was pretty much the first black performer that crossed over and became a big mainstream star. Ragtime & jazz was black music and jazz developed into swing in which big bands were a craze during the 1920s and 1930s. Blues singer Bessie Smith was also popular in the 1920s and 1930s as well. She was popular enough to have a movie studio make a short film starring her called St. Louis Blues in 1929, when it was not that common for black performers to be in movies, and were often played by white actors in blackface like A Birth Of A Nation. Then it was acts like the Mills Brothers, Ethel Waters, Lena Horne, & The Ink Spots. Rock n roll in the 1950s was an offspring of R&B which was originally called race music. Many black performers became mainstream like Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Chubby Checker, Sam Cooke, etc. Elvis Presley was pretty much doing black music and he was pretty popular and so were The Beatles on their early records. Gospel singer Mahalia Jackson was popular with mainstream audiences too and so was the Fisk Jubilee Singers before her. Pretty much all of these acts were mainstream with black music before Mike & Prince were born. Motown & Stax was mainstream and the Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, and early Fleetwood Mac was doing blues based music which was black music.
 
Hell the list had R Kelly above Marvin Gaye. Biggie, Jay-z, Kanye and Eminem but no Tupac who blew them all away.
It's RS.
MJ was one of the greatest songwriters ever due to a combination of his musical and lyrical diversity, worldwide impact and influence.
 
It was neither. Scott Joplin did it with ragtime in the early 1900s. Then Louis Armstrong was pretty much the first black performer that crossed over and became a big mainstream star. Ragtime & jazz was black music and jazz developed into swing in which big bands were a craze during the 1920s and 1930s. Blues singer Bessie Smith was also popular in the 1920s and 1930s as well. She was popular enough to have a movie studio make a short film starring her called St. Louis Blues in 1929, when it was not that common for black performers to be in movies, and were often played by white actors in blackface like A Birth Of A Nation. Then it was acts like the Mills Brothers, Ethel Waters, Lena Horne, & The Ink Spots. Rock n roll in the 1950s was an offspring of R&B which was originally called race music. Many black performers became mainstream like Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Chubby Checker, Sam Cooke, etc. Elvis Presley was pretty much doing black music and he was pretty popular and so were The Beatles on their early records. Gospel singer Mahalia Jackson was popular with mainstream audiences too and so was the Fisk Jubilee Singers before her. Pretty much all of these acts were mainstream with black music before Mike & Prince were born. Motown & Stax was mainstream and the Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, and early Fleetwood Mac was doing blues based music which was black music.

How many territories has Motown been influential or even heard in? Like I've said in other threads, the world doesn't consist of only US and Uk. How many people in India and in China even know about Motown or Prince? Both the countries make up one third of the world's population. I live in Pakistan so I know how well MJ is known. And how less known are other "megastars" from that timeframe - save for Madonna.
 
How many territories has Motown been influential or even heard in? Like I've said in other threads, the world doesn't consist of only US and Uk. How many people in India and in China even know about Motown or Prince? Both the countries make up one third of the world's population. I live in Pakistan so I know how well MJ is known. And how less known are other "megastars" from that timeframe - save for Madonna.
Since Rolling Stone is US magazine and a rock based one at that, why would they be writing about who is popular in China, Pakistan, & India? That is not the audience who buys the magazine. They don't have anybody from South America or Africa either and they're continents. Africa is full of black music. All black people don't make the same kind of music. Popularity and sales has nothing to do with someone's music being better or not, only that they have a good promotional staff and big money behind them. Some of the people on the list are not even really mainstream known in the US like Randy Newman.
 
I mean, Working Class Hero can be praised (I think it's excellent BTW) but They Don't Care About Us is forgotten.

On the plus side, the recent events in America have actually put the song in the spotlight again. It's gained many plays on Spotify and is currently his 10th most popular song at 30,441,283 streams. In addition, I've seen it go viral on some social websites such as Tumblr where I remember seeing a post with the song embedded, and it was gaining hundreds of likes every few minutes.

How many territories has Motown been influential or even heard in? Like I've said in other threads, the world doesn't consist of only US and Uk. How many people in India and in China even know about Motown or Prince? Both the countries make up one third of the world's population. I live in Pakistan so I know how well MJ is known. And how less known are other "megastars" from that timeframe - save for Madonna.

I generally agree with what DuranDuran says right above this post, so no need to repeat him/her.

Although is there anyway to find out how much artists have sold in those countries? I went to go look up figures for Prince and MJ and well, I didn't really know where to start since Wikipedia offered information for countless other countries... except India and China. Would be very interesting to see! :)
 
Last edited:
Interesting, Abba should be so much higher, besides their own mega selling hits they wrote songs like I know him so well and One night in Bangkok as well. Prince sang more than sex Psychokniff, listen to songs like "Nothing compares 2 u", "Love thy will be done", "Empty Room", "Money don't matter 2nite", "I love u but don't trust u anymore", "Cinnamon Girl", "Dear Mr Man", "1 + 1 + 1 = 3". Then his work for satellite artists, Cool, The Walk, A Love Bizarre, Manic Monday, Stand Back, With this tear, Eternity, 5 Women.

Prince can also arrange the music, add on harmony layers of vocals, bass, guitars, keys, pianos, maracas and everything you want. Prince's early songs are about sex, but they were also about Love and Faith "The Holy River, God, The Ladder, The Word" and most of his later songs explore love. Ever listened to a song like Adore or anything else off Sign o the Times. Yes MJ got accussed of writing teenage fluff, but Village Voice and all the Critics loved Prince. Plus think of the unmistakable pop classics like 1999, LRC, When Doves Cry, Purple Rain and Kiss. If that is not jangly well written pop, what is?

If this list was properly done, Prince would be Top 5 and Michael would be at about 8 or 9.

Total agreed mate!

Do mine eyes decieve me? I guess not. Prince is preferred over Michael only because of these two reasons:

1. Prince had a much easier life.
2. Prince could play instruments.

Nothing else Prince has done is on par with Michael on a global scale. He might be legendary in your book, but much of the East hasn't even heard about him.

Let's take an example; has Prince written about sex? Yes. Has Michael Jackson written about sex? Yes again.

Has Prince written party anthems? Yes. Has MJ written party anthems? Yes again.

Has Prince written about the way man treats nature? Probably not. Has MJ done it? Yes.

Has Prince written anti war anthems? No. Has MJ done it? Yes.

Has Prince written anything other than what black people are supposed to write about (as per the stereotype)? Probably not. Has MJ done it? Absolutely.

It was MJ who brought black music into the mainstream, not Prince. It's MJ who's celebrated all over the globe, who's so famous that it seems like his name is hardwired into every human being. When talking about western music, there isn't even a single instance when the TV person doesn't mention MJ at least once. It's MJ whose songs like "They Don't Care About Us" and "Earth Song" and "Beat It" and "Bad" and "Black or White" are chanted all across the world. Not Prince.

I'm sorry I became a little too sentimental or whatever. But people diss MJ just because of his hard life. Just because he was vulnerable and loving and too giving he suffered so much loss. This stuff makes me really really mad. He's as revolutionary an artist as John Lennon, even more in some aspects. Don't agree? Look at how inmates in jails all over the world dance to MJ's songs which were released decades ago. Or how people gather around the screen when his music videos or performances are shown in public. How many people can write the stuff he did?

I apologize again, but this really pisses me off. And I had to get it out.

Calm the hell down dude! This isn't a competition between the two, they are BOTH important trailblazers!

How many territories has Motown been influential or even heard in? Like I've said in other threads, the world doesn't consist of only US and Uk. How many people in India and in China even know about Motown or Prince? Both the countries make up one third of the world's population. I live in Pakistan so I know how well MJ is known. And how less known are other "megastars" from that timeframe - save for Madonna.

It's not all about popularity! By that logic, Justin Bieber is more revolutionary that bluesman Robert Johnson.
 
Back
Top