Deleted member 9375
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So I've been thinking about this for the past few days and feel it deserves it's own thread for a number of reasons,
1: It seems to be a slightly separate issue to a possible Dangerous25 release because it throws up a whole litany of talking points and strong opinions all on it's own.
2: It's another issue that seems to divide opinion, both sides with pros and cons, but with fans on either side of the fence taking real umbrage with opposing arguments.
3: It's raised the usual and oft familiar fan jive-talk such as "should be thankful for what your given/get" and "as long as it's HD/Film, I really don't give a damn"
4: I could have replied in the Dangerous25 thread, posted a whole more bunch of videos, went back and forth, round and round in circles (which is probably what could happen here) and just completely derail it for the fans who are sick to death of this type of discussion.
Why MJ Beats started this rumor, I don't know? Was it simply something one of them said in gest, a frivolous throw-away comment that grew legs and took on a life of it's own? Possibly. But at the same time it throws up an interesting argument about something we could possibly get in the new year and after 6 years of sub-par releases, what is acceptable and to be expected at this point?
Would the possible release of possibly the weakest run of shows, well intended yes, and without meaning to tarnish anyone's wonderful memories of said shows, be a good move? Even in HD? A point that baffles me. As bad as some of the releases have been the past 6 years, they have managed to clear MJ's debt off within the first 3 years which is remarkable when you consider how much financial trouble he was in. But what then about the artistic integrity of it all? the legacy? the music? Surely the reason most of us are here and first and foremost the most important thing?
I want to make clear also that I'm not wholly against everything 93 where shows are concerned. I do really enjoy some of the performances, especially Jam 93 and how it evolved musically (the added synth bass really packs a punch) and also the added choreography to the closing bars, aswell as the way the pyro explosives are layered over MJ's image as he strikes a pose on 'go with it' spins and pops on 'Jam!' It's powerful. That said, Mexico Jam isn't one of the better ones in my opinion. I also really enjoy the Buenos Aries performance of Dangerous, and like the performance of WYBT from that show also.
For me the Mexico shows are lacking on quite a few levels and the 93 leg was dogged by problems, both technical and personal. Technically, WDAN and Beat It are removed (both tracks were removed after the Japan shows), although to be fair you've got Dangerous instead of Beat It which is probably good since it was the Dangerous Tour. The second tier hydraulic stage is absent, not that that is a major thing, quite minor I guess, Jenifer Batten is absent and her stand-in if memory serves tends to do that really annoying (like air guitar thing) of pretending to play the solo during BOW by over mimicking the solo.
Then there's MJ. Highly addicted by this point and under the influence during the shows, with that glazed-over despondent look like much of the 30th anniversary shows where his eyes are just blank at times. I'm not knocking him for it, I understand the reasons. He shouldn't have been on stage at all if you ask me as it effects everything, his dancing and vocals, his emotional state. The culmination of allegations, reproductive scalp surgery (can you imagine the pain of that) Dental infection and 2 molars removed (I've had 2 molars removed myself, not at the same time and it hurt like hell and was exhausted after it both times for days) and 3 days of a deposition between shows, like literally between shows where he was again quite clearly medicated and struggling to answer basic enough questions.
During 92 Michael was ill with throat and viral infections, but sporadically and nowhere near as ill as he was in 93. There was roughly 8 shows cancelled and rescheduled in 92 and roughly 20 shows cancelled in 93, many not rescheduled at all including the entire Australian leg and a show in India.
The first 9 shows in 92 featured Bad & TWYMMF, and both tracks would feature again in the 2 Japan 92 shows:
2 Munich shows, 2 Rotterdam shows, 2 Italian shows (more commonly referred to as the Rome and Monza shows), 1 Cologne show, 1 Oslo show and finally the 2 Japan shows.
These 2 Japan concerts from the Tokyo Dome are pretty intriguing, during the 31st December new years eve show MJ wished everyone a happy new year from his dressing room, Slash joined him for BOW and his band played Auld Lang Syne after Heal The World and Bad and TWYMMF are performed. The youtube footage looks quite good. That's certainly something I could get excited about seeing and ironically these are also indoor shows (something which we don't have) which would be great. Right on the cusp of 1993, but possibly with added 92 energy and oomph, with black Jam jacket. This is also possibly the show with the red striped pants & red shirt for MITM?
During the Toulouse 92 show In The Closet instrumental was played by the band as a tribute to Princess Stephanie of Monaco (the mystery girl from the song) who was a guest.
So my preference would be a 92 show, possibly the 7th, 8th or 9th concert performed depending on whats best, or the Japan New Years Eve concert, or possibly that Wembley show where the Jam and BOW promo-shot performances come from. Pack it with bonus performances. Include the In The Closet instrumental, Include the Dangerous performance from 93, include one of the best Jam 93's, Include Bad and TWYMMF if it's not already in the setlist.
So what would you want? I'll never ever buy into the concept of "I don't care so long as its HD!" Release a top quality performance and pack it with bonus features. As extensive and as good as is absolutely possible.
If you want a 93 show explain what it is about the 93 shows that makes them so appealing to you? What makes them superior than the 92 shows? What is it about the 92 shows that you don't like?
Or if your completely bored of this flogged dead horse, simply ignore.
1: It seems to be a slightly separate issue to a possible Dangerous25 release because it throws up a whole litany of talking points and strong opinions all on it's own.
2: It's another issue that seems to divide opinion, both sides with pros and cons, but with fans on either side of the fence taking real umbrage with opposing arguments.
3: It's raised the usual and oft familiar fan jive-talk such as "should be thankful for what your given/get" and "as long as it's HD/Film, I really don't give a damn"
4: I could have replied in the Dangerous25 thread, posted a whole more bunch of videos, went back and forth, round and round in circles (which is probably what could happen here) and just completely derail it for the fans who are sick to death of this type of discussion.
Why MJ Beats started this rumor, I don't know? Was it simply something one of them said in gest, a frivolous throw-away comment that grew legs and took on a life of it's own? Possibly. But at the same time it throws up an interesting argument about something we could possibly get in the new year and after 6 years of sub-par releases, what is acceptable and to be expected at this point?
Would the possible release of possibly the weakest run of shows, well intended yes, and without meaning to tarnish anyone's wonderful memories of said shows, be a good move? Even in HD? A point that baffles me. As bad as some of the releases have been the past 6 years, they have managed to clear MJ's debt off within the first 3 years which is remarkable when you consider how much financial trouble he was in. But what then about the artistic integrity of it all? the legacy? the music? Surely the reason most of us are here and first and foremost the most important thing?
I want to make clear also that I'm not wholly against everything 93 where shows are concerned. I do really enjoy some of the performances, especially Jam 93 and how it evolved musically (the added synth bass really packs a punch) and also the added choreography to the closing bars, aswell as the way the pyro explosives are layered over MJ's image as he strikes a pose on 'go with it' spins and pops on 'Jam!' It's powerful. That said, Mexico Jam isn't one of the better ones in my opinion. I also really enjoy the Buenos Aries performance of Dangerous, and like the performance of WYBT from that show also.
For me the Mexico shows are lacking on quite a few levels and the 93 leg was dogged by problems, both technical and personal. Technically, WDAN and Beat It are removed (both tracks were removed after the Japan shows), although to be fair you've got Dangerous instead of Beat It which is probably good since it was the Dangerous Tour. The second tier hydraulic stage is absent, not that that is a major thing, quite minor I guess, Jenifer Batten is absent and her stand-in if memory serves tends to do that really annoying (like air guitar thing) of pretending to play the solo during BOW by over mimicking the solo.
Then there's MJ. Highly addicted by this point and under the influence during the shows, with that glazed-over despondent look like much of the 30th anniversary shows where his eyes are just blank at times. I'm not knocking him for it, I understand the reasons. He shouldn't have been on stage at all if you ask me as it effects everything, his dancing and vocals, his emotional state. The culmination of allegations, reproductive scalp surgery (can you imagine the pain of that) Dental infection and 2 molars removed (I've had 2 molars removed myself, not at the same time and it hurt like hell and was exhausted after it both times for days) and 3 days of a deposition between shows, like literally between shows where he was again quite clearly medicated and struggling to answer basic enough questions.
During 92 Michael was ill with throat and viral infections, but sporadically and nowhere near as ill as he was in 93. There was roughly 8 shows cancelled and rescheduled in 92 and roughly 20 shows cancelled in 93, many not rescheduled at all including the entire Australian leg and a show in India.
The first 9 shows in 92 featured Bad & TWYMMF, and both tracks would feature again in the 2 Japan 92 shows:
2 Munich shows, 2 Rotterdam shows, 2 Italian shows (more commonly referred to as the Rome and Monza shows), 1 Cologne show, 1 Oslo show and finally the 2 Japan shows.
These 2 Japan concerts from the Tokyo Dome are pretty intriguing, during the 31st December new years eve show MJ wished everyone a happy new year from his dressing room, Slash joined him for BOW and his band played Auld Lang Syne after Heal The World and Bad and TWYMMF are performed. The youtube footage looks quite good. That's certainly something I could get excited about seeing and ironically these are also indoor shows (something which we don't have) which would be great. Right on the cusp of 1993, but possibly with added 92 energy and oomph, with black Jam jacket. This is also possibly the show with the red striped pants & red shirt for MITM?
During the Toulouse 92 show In The Closet instrumental was played by the band as a tribute to Princess Stephanie of Monaco (the mystery girl from the song) who was a guest.
So my preference would be a 92 show, possibly the 7th, 8th or 9th concert performed depending on whats best, or the Japan New Years Eve concert, or possibly that Wembley show where the Jam and BOW promo-shot performances come from. Pack it with bonus performances. Include the In The Closet instrumental, Include the Dangerous performance from 93, include one of the best Jam 93's, Include Bad and TWYMMF if it's not already in the setlist.
So what would you want? I'll never ever buy into the concept of "I don't care so long as its HD!" Release a top quality performance and pack it with bonus features. As extensive and as good as is absolutely possible.
If you want a 93 show explain what it is about the 93 shows that makes them so appealing to you? What makes them superior than the 92 shows? What is it about the 92 shows that you don't like?
Or if your completely bored of this flogged dead horse, simply ignore.
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