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Thread: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

   
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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    Quote Originally Posted by KOPV View Post
    it is no secret that a large majority of athletes take performance enhancement drugs.. The only reason this stuff makes news is to highlight catching someone (group of people) is to promote/insinuate that they are trying to catch people.. often the organizations themselves help pass tests by simply giving a schedule of when tests would be done... It's just the careless that get caught. And once the test is failed the organization HAS to legally make a move
    Except with the case of Sharapova, and Russia as a country, the bans aren't enough in my opinion.

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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    Quote Originally Posted by innuendo141 View Post
    Except with the case of Sharapova, and Russia as a country, the bans aren't enough in my opinion.
    Who do you think should be put in jail?
    The people that covered for the cheating athletes, the athletes themselves, or both?

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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    lets be real, goverments have been using steroids for decades on decades. German soldiers were given steroids in the 30's, 1950's Russian Olympians were given, than united states fallowed after continuously losing to the Russians.. Much of steroid development was to help people that were sick - anemic, HIV patience.. But much of its expansion was specifically developed by doctors to help athletes... Who do you think funded these advancements for that purpose?
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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    Quote Originally Posted by KOPV View Post
    lets be real, goverments have been using steroids for decades on decades. German soldiers were given steroids in the 30's, 1950's Russian Olympians were given, than united states fallowed after continuously losing to the Russians.. Much of steroid development was to help people that were sick - anemic, HIV patience.. But much of its expansion was specifically developed by doctors to help athletes... Who do you think funded these advancements for that purpose?
    Thats all true, but if uncovered the highest bans have to be dished out to put others off doing it. Its as simple as that. Sport is being, and has been destroyed for decades because of doping, but its no excuse to lay back. If it was proven that the US government were funding a national doping scheme, I would want to see America as a country blanket banned from competetive international sport. Lance Armstrong got his comeuppance. He should never be allowed compete in anything again.

    Princess, I dont really know if anyone should be jailed. Whats done is done. I think a lifetime ban for doping is necessary. Look at the results coming in from London and Sochi. Rio will be next. I mean, come on, look at the woman who woman the 10,000 metre final. An absolute embarrassment.

    Russia have been caught red handed with something that has forever put a biased doubt in my mind whenever I hear a Russian athlete doing well, and thats bad enough.

    Also, anyone hear Billie Jean King talk about Sharapova? Saying she should be welcomed back with open arms? If Sharapova was a man, she wouldnt be saying that. Sharapova played her fundraiser, so more politics there. Sharapova undid a lot of the work King fought tooth and nail for back in the 70s, and as badly percieved as womens tennis is at the minute, because of the lack of consistency among the top players, people will see "the biggest star" return to tennis because "she is needed". Sharapova is a lying doping bitch. (not being sexist, if she was a man i'd have called her a prick)

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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    ^ It's all objective thinking on opinions of enhancement drugs.. Enhancement drugs can come in all forms, not just steroids.. There are millions of people taking enhancements legally simply through TRT and various other forms.. Some actually need it due to imbalanced levels of hormones or sick, and others don't.. It can be tricky slope when for example in a sport team you have athlete A taking TRT (legal enhancement) vs. an all natural guy/gal.. Some will say why does athlete A get approved for enhancements legally because there natural levels of testosterone is lower and athlete B gets stuck with what they are born with..

    Thoughts?
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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    Quote Originally Posted by KOPV View Post
    ^ It's all objective thinking on opinions of enhancement drugs.. Enhancement drugs can come in all forms, not just steroids.. There are millions of people taking enhancements legally simply through TRT and various other forms.. Some actually need it due to imbalanced levels of hormones or sick, and others don't.. It can be tricky slope when for example in a sport team you have athlete A taking TRT (legal enhancement) vs. an all natural guy/gal.. Some will say why does athlete A get approved for enhancements legally because there natural levels of testosterone is lower and athlete B gets stuck with what they are born with..

    Thoughts?
    Huge difference. Athletes make WADA or whoever aware of whatever issue they have, and medication is investigated and approved. People get sick and injured, thats life. Sharapovas Meldonium or whatever it is is only a short term drug to be taken for heart conditions. Sharapova used for over q0 years, and had been warned by WADA or USADA that it was on their list of products under investigation and then was banned. Whereas if she had gotten the exemption like honest acting athletes, we wouldnt have this issue. I may seem naive, but Ive more time for people who are open and abide by the system rather than the likes of her, who has played a victim, blamed her team, and has taken no responsibility for what shes done. She has no answers. Caught rotten.

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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    ^ I'm not specifically speaking about this specific instance.. Just more so thought around performance enhancement in sports.. the fact that in the united states guys once they reach below x amount of testosterone vs. average for the age they can easily make a case to get legal testosterone.. With that being the case, what is really fair? You and I go head to head, and you are injecting testosterone in your body elevating you above the natural threshold..

    That is more what I'm saying!
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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    Quote Originally Posted by KOPV View Post
    ^ I'm not specifically speaking about this specific instance.. Just more so thought around performance enhancement in sports.. the fact that in the united states guys once they reach below x amount of testosterone vs. average for the age they can easily make a case to get legal testosterone.. With that being the case, what is really fair? You and I go head to head, and you are injecting testosterone in your body elevating you above the natural threshold..

    That is more what I'm saying!
    I get you. But, isnt it the case that in order for you to be able to legally intake testosterone, wouldn't there need to be a hormone deficiency of some kind? I most certainly dont know all the ins and outs myself. Its very hard to say. I know Venus Williams has had to take several meds throughout the past decade because of some illness she has had, which at any given time makes her weak and faint- so Id imagine there would have been some inclusion of hormones, glucose, something medical to keep her boosting, but the condition itself would almost balance any possible increase in preformance level.

    You are right, its definitely a tough one. There's a certain naivety to feel so strongly about something when there are so many loopholes that question what you think, and I'm definitely guilty of that. I think it would have to come down to a case by case basis really, because what you are saying is true. Absolutely no black and white.

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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    ^ I'll say this, depending on age, it can become very easy to get 'Testosterone Replacement Therapy'. Especially once a man reaches into his 30's.. Basically as long as you can show that lower testosterone is negatively effecting your life (at home, at work, philological issues) you can get it prescribed.. And of course athletes can feel like they don't have not enough testosterone very easily.. You take that and coincide it with it being your profession (.ie. Pro sport) + a popular name - It becomes soooo very easy to get prescribed. There are plenty of ordinary people at the gym I see every day on it.. I'll say if you knew how many people were taking steroids (legally or illegally you would be shocked)... I am often around the sport of bodybuilding so I see it a lot but I still get shocked when I find out this guy, that guy, this girl is on it... people you would never look at and assume so!
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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    The gym I used go to, it was very obvious, mainly by the "acne" like marks/spots on the shoulders of guys who dont look like they need any steroids. I had been told that the majority of that gym were on some type of "juice" or another, so it's not that surprising. They were of the Jersey/Geordie Shore-type fanbase.

    Didnt Lance Armstrong get away with injecting a type of steroid during his first Tour de France, citing a saddle rash? I could be wrong with steroid, but I dont think it was EPO at that time

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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    ^ I heard that about Lance Armstrong but not sure, never really fallowed it.. everyone will have different thoughts on steroids/performance etc, which I honestly respect both sides of the fence but in my opinion.. As long as people have competitive nature - performance enhancements will be used. Knowing that (not saying right or wrong) I think it would be easier to simply make it public knowledge that athletes are allowed to use it instead of trying to put the covers of the publics eyes... There's a reason why professional sport companies let the athletes know when tests will be done.. and even the tests are not always blood tests, some just do lie detector... ummmm!! think about it.. Leagues help athletes take them (did you know they even test for steroids in pro bodybuilding?) Really? is there a question there? Same with the WWE, many of those men/women are supplementing on steroids but they know how to test ok.. People on the road 300+ days a year, not getting proper nutrition, running there bodies into the ground cannot look like monsters without "help".. I personally know where The Rock for example gets his.. though he's not wrestling anymore.
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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    As an endurance athlete myself, I despise anyone who knowingly takes a substance knowing that it will improve their performance to the extent that they could be/are cheating someone clean out of an honest result. I know how hard I work all year round, so I can only imagine how hard a clean international athlete works. As you say, all the wool needs to come off. Blank slate. Even to the point where, hey, would it make a level playing field if it everything was fair game?

    Quote Originally Posted by KOPV View Post
    Same with the WWE, many of those men/women are supplementing on steroids but they know how to test ok.. People on the road 300+ days a year, not getting proper nutrition, running there bodies into the ground cannot look like monsters without "help".. I personally know where The Rock for example gets his.. though he's not wrestling anymore.
    Yeah, and way too many have died young beacuse of this. British Bulldog sustained a bad injury in 98 on a trap door in the ring and needed meds for teh rest of his career. Heart just gave out. And surely to god these meds had an effect on Warrior's death. I think I've read the the WWE wellness policy is severley flawed, to say the least. The deaths under 60 in the WWE/alumni are horrific

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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    ^ indeed, I would add in though.. as a fellow wrestling fan, many of the wrestlers did not live a 'clean' life.. I know you're aware of multiple addictions to various drugs in that sport.. pain killers, and various 'mood' enhancers, alcoholism etc.. And yes steroids, which can be administered moderately safe - but I also think it's safe to say that in pro wrestling much of what is needed to make it safer is overlooked and ignored.. (all the support the body needs to cleanse itself)

    I agree with your thought on someone cheating with enhancements, I just also feel that... Since it is not fair to the natural guy/gal. It's unfair for sport leagues to claim bans against It while under the table helping athletes do it... The most fair way I can think of resolving is letting individual decide... That way each person knows what is and is not a fair playing field, can decide to partake knowing so.. It's just unfair for example for you to compete believing that others are on the same field as you.. When they are not.. the secrecy causes more issue (in my eyes) than anything
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    Default Re: World Anti-Doping Agency accusing Russia for cheating by dope coverups

    Quote Originally Posted by innuendo141 View Post
    Princess, I dont really know if anyone should be jailed. Whats done is done. I think a lifetime ban for doping is necessary. Look at the results coming in from London and Sochi. Rio will be next. I mean, come on, look at the woman who woman the 10,000 metre final. An absolute embarrassment.

    Russia have been caught red handed with something that has forever put a biased doubt in my mind whenever I hear a Russian athlete doing well, and thats bad enough.

    Also, anyone hear Billie Jean King talk about Sharapova? Saying she should be welcomed back with open arms? If Sharapova was a man, she wouldnt be saying that. Sharapova played her fundraiser, so more politics there. Sharapova undid a lot of the work King fought tooth and nail for back in the 70s, and as badly percieved as womens tennis is at the minute, because of the lack of consistency among the top players, people will see "the biggest star" return to tennis because "she is needed". Sharapova is a lying doping bitch. (not being sexist, if she was a man i'd have called her a prick)
    Oh!
    When I saw you say you didn't think a ban was enough my mind kind of jumped to the conclusion of jail time.:lol:

    And I agree with what you said about the whole situation leaving doubts.
    Not every Russain athlete is a cheater (and the doubts those cheaters have created aren't fair to the clean athletes), but for those that did cheat goodness knows the half life of those drugs let alone how long it will take until the drugs are completely out of their system.
    They could be 'clean' and still have an unfair advantage over truly clean competitors (regardless of how slight the advantage is).


    Am also shocked at what you said that Billie Jean King said, and had no idea about it until now.

    Quote Originally Posted by KOPV View Post
    ^ It's all objective thinking on opinions of enhancement drugs.. Enhancement drugs can come in all forms, not just steroids.. There are millions of people taking enhancements legally simply through TRT and various other forms.. Some actually need it due to imbalanced levels of hormones or sick, and others don't.. It can be tricky slope when for example in a sport team you have athlete A taking TRT (legal enhancement) vs. an all natural guy/gal.. Some will say why does athlete A get approved for enhancements legally because there natural levels of testosterone is lower and athlete B gets stuck with what they are born with..

    Thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by KOPV View Post
    ^ I heard that about Lance Armstrong but not sure, never really fallowed it.. everyone will have different thoughts on steroids/performance etc, which I honestly respect both sides of the fence but in my opinion.. As long as people have competitive nature - performance enhancements will be used. Knowing that (not saying right or wrong) I think it would be easier to simply make it public knowledge that athletes are allowed to use it instead of trying to put the covers of the publics eyes... There's a reason why professional sport companies let the athletes know when tests will be done.. and even the tests are not always blood tests, some just do lie detector... ummmm!! think about it.. Leagues help athletes take them (did you know they even test for steroids in pro bodybuilding?) Really? is there a question there? Same with the WWE, many of those men/women are supplementing on steroids but they know how to test ok.. People on the road 300+ days a year, not getting proper nutrition, running there bodies into the ground cannot look like monsters without "help".. I personally know where The Rock for example gets his.. though he's not wrestling anymore.
    You told a lot of truth with these comments.
    Although I'm sure some athletes are clean, to a certain extent I've always felt as though cheating in sports is an open secret.
    All things considered it certainly is a tricky situation. :/
    Last edited by Pink Diamond Princess; 01-04-2017 at 10:44 AM.

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    Default Russia banned from 2018 Olympics



    IOC bans Russia from 2018 Winter Olympics

    Individual athletes 'under strict conditions' allowed to compete as neutrals

    The International Olympic Committee has banned Russia from competing at the 2018 Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang, South Korea, following a vote on Tuesday. However, it allows for individual Russian athletes "under strict conditions" to compete as an "Olympic Athlete from Russia [OAR]" without their national flag or anthem, according to a release from the IOC.

    Russia could refuse the offer to compete as neutrals and boycott the Games, which are scheduled for Feb. 9-25. Russian President Vladimir Putin has previously said it would be humiliating for Russia to compete without national symbols. Canadian lawyer Richard McLaren, who investigated state-sponsored doping in Russia on behalf of the World Anti-Doping Agency, told CBC News there's a "high probability" that Russia would boycott these Games and prohibit any of its athletes from competing.

    "We've never seen this kind of extensive sanctioning of a country and the officials within a country," McLaren said. "I congratulate the IOC in its decision. It confirms my findings in the investigation that I conducted for WADA."

    The IOC suspended the Russian Olympic committee and IOC member Alexander Zhukov, and also banned Russian Deputy Prime Minister Vitaly Mutko from the Olympics for life. Mutko was the sports minister in 2014 and is the head of the organizing committee of soccer's next World Cup.

    The IOC also imposed a fine of $15 million US on the Russian Olympic committee to pay for investigations into the case and toward future anti-doping work.

    COC 'encouraged' by ruling

    Canadian Olympic Committee president Tricia Smith was pleased with the decision to ban Russia.

    "We are encouraged and hopeful that the sanctions announced today by the International Olympic Committee [IOC] will bring forward positive change for clean and ethical sport," Smith said in a statement.

    Chris Overholt, the CEO and secretary general of the COC, added that "the IOC has done essential work on this issue today. The Canadian Olympic Committee will continue its efforts in collaborating with Canadian and world leaders for clean sport."

    After the decision was announced, Zhukov said Russia's athletes need time to consider whether they will take part in the Games. He added that they plan to discuss it Russian sports officials and athletes at a forthcoming meeting before a final decision on participation, but didn't give a date.

    Zhukov painted the ruling as a compromise, saying "there's positive and negative sides," and praising the IOC's decision to use the term "Olympic Athlete from Russia" for Russian competitors under a neutral flag.

    Previously, suspended countries have used terms such as "Independent Olympic Athlete," which was used last year for Kuwaiti competitors at the Olympics in Rio de Janeiro.

    Zhukov said "they'll be called Russian athletes and not some kind of neutrals ... that's very important."

    'Refusing means giving in'

    Former NHL player Ilya Kovalchuk said Russia must go to the Olympics despite not being able to use its national flag at the Pyeongchang Games. Kovalchuk tells Russian news agencies that a boycott would not work. He said, "refusing means giving in" to what he terms political pressure.

    "Patriotism and love for your country, it's in your heart," he said. "For that you don't have to shout or even wear the flag on your chest. And if, I hope to God, we manage to compete well, then we'll definitely sing the anthem."

    Kovalchuk was named to Russia's pre-Olympic hockey team on Tuesday.

    Two-time reigning world champion figure skater Evgenia Medvedeva, who also appeared in front of the IOC board, wouldn't say if she'll compete as a neutral.

    "It will be discussed more and it's very early to ask questions like that," she said.

    The sanctions could be challenged at the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

    "An Olympic boycott has never achieved anything," IOC president Thomas Bach said at a news conference. "Secondly, I don't see any reason for a boycott by the Russian athletes because we allow the clean athletes there to participate."

    The Russian doping program caused "unprecedented damage to Olympism and sports," said IOC-appointed investigator Samuel Schmid, the former president of Switzerland who was asked to verify an "institutional conspiracy."

    Former investigator calls ruling a "farce'

    Jack Robertson, who until 2016 was WADA's chief investigator and helped expose Russia's doping program, said it is a "farce" that Russian athletes will be allowed compete under a neutral banner.

    "This is a farce and the IOC knows it," Robertson wrote in an email to The National's Adrienne Arsenault. "There is absolutely no sure way to 100 per cent differentiate between clean athletes and doping athletes."

    "If there were, then doping would have ceased long ago."

    Robertson called the ruling a "betrayal" to clean athletes.

    "I deeply regret we fell short in making this a cleaner field. [They] deserve better," he wrote.

    The International Paralympic Committee (IPC) is expected to make a decision on whether to ban Russian athletes for the Winter Games next March. The IPC did banish Russia from the 2016 Paralympics in Rio.

    Russia denies state-sponsored doping

    Russia has repeatedly refused to accept that a state-sponsored doping program existed. Such denials helped ensure bans on its track federation and anti-doping agency have not been lifted.

    Instead, Russia blames Grigory Rodchenkov, the former director of Moscow and Sochi testing laboratories, as a rogue employee. It wants the scientist extradited from the United States, where he is a protected witness.

    The executive board reached its decision Tuesday after a scheduled 4½-hour debate when it heard from a Russian delegation that included world figure skating champion Evgenia Medvedeva. The delegation was led by Zhukov, who was later suspended.

    Two IOC commission leaders — appointed after World Anti-Doping Agency investigator Richard McLaren upheld Rodchenkov's doping claims in July 2016 — also reported to the Olympic board.

    Schmid's report included a 50-page sworn affidavit from Rodchenkov, who was also a key witness for McLaren and an IOC disciplinary commission.

    The chairman of that disciplinary panel, Swiss lawyer Denis Oswald, reported about prosecuting Russian athletes implicated in cheating at the 2014 Sochi Games. By Monday, 25 Russians had been disqualified from the Sochi Games and banned from the Olympics for life, and 11 medals were stripped. One Russian was cleared.

    Russia no longer leads the Sochi medals table. Even before the IOC reallocates the stripped medals, the United States has the most total medals and Norway has the most golds.

    The banned Russian athletes have said they will appeal against the Oswald judgments at the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne.

    Any sanctions imposed by the IOC can also be challenged at CAS, and later at Switzerland's supreme court, which can intervene if legal process has been abused.

    The IOC said a panel of officials chaired by former France Sports Minister Valerie Fourneyron will decide which athletes to accept at the Olympics in February.

    Source: CBC.ca
    Last edited by PoP; 06-12-2017 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Adding news Russia banned from 2018 Winter Olympics
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