Next posthumous album without original versions?

[Slave To The Rhythm]

If they would release a posthumous album with unfinished songs they maybe couldn't put the demos on the album. Would it be a problem for you?

For example if they would release an album with the RedOne and Will.i.am songs and they would just finish them, would you nontheless like to get the demos?

Or when there are some unfinished tracks where another artist is needed to sing the chorus or some verses what then?

 

[Michaels Lover]

no to all 3 questions

 

[SoCav]

I'm not buying a product in which the originals are not included and where MJ's own work is not the primary focus. I'm buying Michael Jackson products because I'm interested in Michael Jackson, not some flavour-of-the-month's reinterpretation of Michael's work.

 

[OnirMJ]

I would always want to hear the original version/demo of the song. Although I would understand it if they decide to just finish the production on unfinished tracks and release it like that (like they did with MICHAEL). In that way the original versions are not that essential (although it would be nice to have them, especially for the fans). If they decide to do another Xscape type album where the concept was to "contemporize" the original versions or as they explained it, to create new songs around Michael's vocals inspired by Michael's spirit, in that case I think original versions or demos are essential. And I think they know that. I'm fine either way they decide to go. The perfect concept, of course, would be finishing the songs (MICHAEL style) with original versions or demos as a bonus material for the fans. Releasing just unfinished material and/or demos is absolute worst possible idea. It's just like throwing the songs away because projects like that will just flop and no one outside the hardcore fan base will ever hear those songs and possible hidden gems (something what happened to Bad 25 tracks). That should never happen again. If they have some songs that are just not good enough for the new albums or songs that have no vocals or not enough releasable vocals then those songs should be saved for anniversary releases like Bad 25 and box sets like The Ultimate Collection.

 

[Slave To The Rhythm]

I'm not buying a product in which the originals are not included and where MJ's own work is not the primary focus. I'm buying Michael Jackson products because I'm interested in Michael Jackson, not some flavour-of-the-month's reinterpretation of Michael's work.

I'm not talking about contemporizing songs. I'm talking about finishing songs. His recent work after 2005 probably won't need an update but maybe they need to finish the songs. My question was if they should include unfinished songs which are nearly the same nonetheless.

 

[SoCav]

^Personally I would always want to hear the originals, yes.

I am not against finishing songs if it is done by the people who worked with Michael on those same songs, as long as they are told that they should stick to the ideas that MJ formulated wherever possible. It would actually be interesting to hear how they would finish the material (a bonus documentary or YouTube clips in which they explain why they finished the songs the way they did, could provide us with a lot of great insights about how Michael worked and the history of the songs). But then I would still like to see those finished songs presented as a bonus, "one possible version of what the songs could have become," rather than the main focus of the project ("here's Michael Jackson's new studio album").

 

[Slave To The Rhythm]

^Personally I would always want to hear the originals, yes.

I am not against finishing songs if it is done by the people who worked with Michael on those same songs, as long as they are told that they should stick to the ideas that MJ formulated wherever possible. It would actually be interesting to hear how they would finish the material (a bonus documentary or YouTube clips in which they explain why they finished the songs the way they did, could provide us with a lot of great insights about how Michael worked and the history of the songs). But then I would still like to see those finished songs presented as a bonus, "one possible version of what the songs could have become," rather than the main focus of the project ("here's Michael Jackson's new studio album").

Such a documentary would be great!!

I like the idea of contemporizing songs by other producers if the songs are very old and outdated. If they will release his post Invincible or let's say post 2005 songs the original producers should just finish them in my opinion.

I rather have an album with contemporized songs presented as an MJ album than an album with demos Michael would never have released in that way. He left them because he wasn't 100% pleased with them or didn't have enough time to finish them.
Maybe he would hate the contemporized songs we will never know. But sometimes the vision of someone else can be great too. And the contemporized songs are well thought.

 

[AlwaysThere]

I would like to hear Michael's original version, but on a personal level I'm only interested in how good the song itself is. Producers have outdone Michael's demos before, so it doesn't matter much to me.

 

[morinen]

^Personally I would always want to hear the originals, yes.

I am not against finishing songs if it is done by the people who worked with Michael on those same songs, as long as they are told that they should stick to the ideas that MJ formulated wherever possible. It would actually be interesting to hear how they would finish the material (a bonus documentary or YouTube clips in which they explain why they finished the songs the way they did, could provide us with a lot of great insights about how Michael worked and the history of the songs). But then I would still like to see those finished songs presented as a bonus, "one possible version of what the songs could have become," rather than the main focus of the project ("here's Michael Jackson's new studio album").

I so agree with this. As far as I am concerned, Michael's art should always come first. I just see it as disrespectful to finish his work and present it as his. And Michael's demos are awesome most of the time, even when they are just in the groove state. They are awesome, catchy grooves and they show how good a composer he was. Plus, there are plenty of examples on Michael and Xscape where they took a finished or almost finished song and made it worse by "contemporizing" or finalizing it. So I always want to hear and have the original song and all the revisions are secondary.

 

[HIStoric]

While I do enjoy many of the contemporisations on Xscape (and tend to play them more than the demos tbh, though I was listening to the demos today), it's absolutely paramount that they always include how Michael left it when last worked on it (or some sort of demo).

When it comes to finishing/contemporisations, it's irrelevant to me if they worked with Michael or not. Contemporised versions on both the Michael album and Xscape proved to me that just because someone worked with Michael on the song doesn't mean they can finish it in the best way (a big example - Another Day. ugggghhhhhhhhhh.).

So far I've noticed that I often prefer it when someone new has come in to contemporise the music, ala Timbaland or StarGate. This obviously isn't an "end all", it's just a trend I've noticed so far. The 2014 version of A Place With No Name is, to me, one of the greatest pieces to be released since Michael's death. As long as they're not the "flavour of the month" and have a credible history at being an excellent producer, I'll be pretty open. Of course, if Michael did express interest in working with them (or did work with them), then sure all the better... it's just not a requirement to me. The exception is anniversary albums, I'd prefer if the unreleased music there remained as to how Michael worked on them.

It actually excites me to hear people's spin on Michael's music and we've got some pretty great results so far. If I ever want to listen to Michael's take, well, his versions are there for me to enjoy! If I truly do not like a song (case in point, that f**king Pitbull remix of Bad), I just won't rip it off the CD. Honestly I just forget it even exists until someone here brings it up!

 

[innuendo141]

I have bought everything that the Estate have released officially so far.

If they released another horrific "album" like Xscape without the demo versions I would not buy it. Simple as.

Nothing will change my opinion on that. Timbaland made a Timbaland album. Which have always sounded cat to me.

Even bringing in Teddy Riley was a sh*t show on Michael. He produced a song that had an imposter.

Inexcusable, and absolutley unforgivable what the Eastate have done, and to just wipe it under the carpet and act as if we will forget?

Sorry for the rant, but I just want the work Michael Jackson DID to be released, not the work that the Estate think Michael Jackson SHOULD have done to whore his name and talent for a billboard #1 album and whatever new bullsh*t gimmicks will be available to further his "achievements" in death.

At the end of the day, John Branca and John McClain will go to the grave knowing that they failed in the worst way possible that no one has ever failed before with the Michael album. And they have not repaired that damage.

Leave the man's unfinished work alone. Give us a collector's label. Give us unreleased shows that we can purchase, and we WILL pay.

I know a lot of you will disagree with me, but there ya go. My tastes, my opinion. That's all.

 

[IMWhizzle]

If those tracks are done by Daft Punk, Pharrell Williams and Timbaland, I would buy every copy on any format! And I will be a happy person! ?

 

[Slave To The Rhythm]

I have bought everything that the Estate have released officially so far.

If they released another horrific "album" like Xscape without the demo versions I would not buy it. Simple as.

Nothing will change my opinion on that. Timbaland made a Timbaland album. Which have always sounded cat to me.

Even bringing in Teddy Riley was a sh*t show on Michael. He produced a song that had an imposter.

Inexcusable, and absolutley unforgivable what the Eastate have done, and to just wipe it under the carpet and act as if we will forget?

Sorry for the rant, but I just want the work Michael Jackson DID to be released, not the work that the Estate think Michael Jackson SHOULD have done to whore his name and talent for a billboard #1 album and whatever new bullsh*t gimmicks will be available to further his "achievements" in death.

At the end of the day, John Branca and John McClain will go to the grave knowing that they failed in the worst way possible that no one has ever failed before with the Michael album. And they have not repaired that damage.

Leave the man's unfinished work alone. Give us a collector's label. Give us unreleased shows that we can purchase, and we WILL pay.

I know a lot of you will disagree with me, but there ya go. My tastes, my opinion. That's all.

In my opinion Xscape without the contemporized versions would be very bad i woulf have listened maybe once or twice to it and then leave it.

I think Michael would hate Sony for releasing unfinished songs, simply because he was a perfectionist. And if you listen to the demos you can cleary hear why some them wasn't released.

We will never know what he would think about the reworked songs. But i rather buy a product with a good quality which is well thougt and he maybe could be proud of. Of some demos that are soo outdated he wouldn't be proud of I'm sure.

If some songs are finished or neary finished like Xscape or APWNN the I'm glad when they are also included. And if they will release one of the last songs he worked on like I'm Dreamin' i hope the won't change them or include both versions whivh would be really cool because we would get two modern versions of one song

 

[Tony R]

In my opinion Xscape without the contemporized versions would be very bad i woulf have listened maybe once or twice to it and then leave it.

I think Michael would hate Sony for releasing unfinished songs, simply because he was a perfectionist. And if you listen to the demos you can cleary hear why some them wasn't released.

We will never know what he would think about the reworked songs. But i rather buy a product with a good quality which is well thougt and he maybe could be proud of. Of some demos that are soo outdated he wouldn't be proud of I'm sure.

If some songs are finished or neary finished like Xscape or APWNN the I'm glad when they are also included. And if they will release one of the last songs he worked on like I'm Dreamin' i hope the won't change them or include both versions whivh would be really cool because we would get two modern versions of one song

Agree, can't believe anyone had a problem with Xscape. You had best of both worlds. Thought even though not all the remixes worked it was very tastefully done and if you wanted pure MJ then just listen to the demos.

 

[innuendo141]

Agree, can't believe anyone had a problem with Xscape. You had best of both worlds. Thought even though not all the remixes worked it was very tastefully done and if you wanted pure MJ then just listen to the demos.

That's where we disagree. I know that an album of just demos wouldnt work- and I wouldnt expect one to be released. But I do not think Xscape was tastefully done. It was just Michael Jackson songs remixed to sound like what was considered fresh to certain people, by putting their own sound on it, thus to me making the least sounding Michael Jackson songs I've ever heard.

It all comes down to personal taste and opinion though- I've no problem with anyone who likes Xscape whatsoever, it would be ridiculous.

 

[HIStoric]

If those tracks are done by Daft Punk, Pharrell Williams and Timbaland, I would buy every copy on any format! And I will be a happy person! ?

I've wanted to hear Daft Punk produce an MJ track for years. Honestly Get Lucky sounds PERFECT for MJ, I can seriously imagine him singing it if he was still alive in when it was recorded back in 2012. Of course, there are those videos that alter Pharrell's pitch so he sounds remotely like MJ at various points in the song (notably the beginning). It's cool.

 

[HIStoric]

I could actually imagine MJ releasing those songs sounding that way. There is no way I could imagine MJ releasing a song that sounded like Timabland's version of Blue Gangster or StarGate's A Place With No Name.

I can imagine him doing StarGate's APWNN (especially after Invincible), but I agree on Blue Gangsta (Gangster?).

I remember wondering around the release what an MJ album would sound like in 2014 were he still here and it was hard to answer that because who knows what direction Michael would go in. After all, music has changed quite a bit since he would've last worked on music so I therefore imagined Xscape as what the producers thought MJ's sound might've transitioned towards in 2014.

I think a number of songs hit the mark, I could imagine MJ releasing APWNN, LNFSG, Loving You, STTR, Xscape in their contemporised state were he still here in 2013/2014 (with some odd variations here and there; to add his touch of MJ magic). I think some definitely missed the mark (DYKWYCA, Blue Gangster which sounds very... generic).

 

[Graf]

I am interested in Michael's musical vision and not the vision of other producers/musicians...Just release the songs as Michael created them. I also feel it's perfectly ok to release them in demo format, do not alter them. Look at 'Cheater' on The Ultimate Collection, it's a demo and it's simply incredible. If a song was completed when Michael was here, they should never change it just for the sake of it.

 

[Tony R]

I am interested in Michael's musical vision and not the vision of other producers/musicians...Just release the songs as Michael created them. I also feel it's perfectly ok to release them in demo format, do not alter them. Look at 'Cheater' on The Ultimate Collection, it's a demo and it's simply incredible. If a song was completed when Michael was here, they should never change it just for the sake of it.

Then you have all the BOTDF remixes that were done when he was alive. And they were mostly awful.

 

[OnirMJ]

Agree, can't believe anyone had a problem with Xscape. You had best of both worlds.

I love Xscape very much and I think it is great but I wouldn't say "best of both worlds". In my opinion best of both worlds would be finishing songs (if possible by original producer or at least engineer, something like MICHAEL style) instead of contemporizing them (creating new songs around MJ's vocals that are inspired by him, Xscape style) + releasing the very last version MJ worked on (not the one they think is most interesting, the best or irrelevant if it leaked previously - for example Blue Gangsta was not the last mix Michael did).

 

[Graf]

Then you have all the BOTDF remixes that were done when he was alive. And they were mostly awful.

They are alright, not my favorite remixes of all time but the HIStory Remix is one of the best I've ever heard (Incredible Music video for it too)

Those remixes weren't really his musical vision though, I think he just wanted to do a favor to some other producers/artists. Wasn't the whole Rave/Danceclub a big thing at this time too?

With Michael not here, I really just prefer every song he created did to be left as they are, especially for album releases. I have no problem though if they add some remixes or other production versions as a bonus CD or something.

 

[OnirMJ]

If a song was completed when Michael was here, they should never change it just for the sake of it.

There's no songs in the vault in such state. That's the problem here and that's why we have these discussions. That's just not the way MJ worked. He worked on a lot of material simultaneously and thus not finishing any of the tracks that didn't make the final tracklists of his albums with exceptions like outtakes such as Shout and others that were eventually released as B-sides on singles or on Greatest Hits collections and box-sets. All other unreleased tracks are unfinished and need some kind of "finishing" - producing.

 

[Tony R]

I have no problem though if they add some remixes or other production versions as a bonus CD or something.

But that's what Xscape was! Just that the contemporised versions were not on a separate disc.

I wonder if people would have been more accepting if the demos would have been first on the album with the remixes after or on separate disc.

 

[HIStoric]

(not the one they think is most interesting, the best or irrelevant if it leaked previously - for example Blue Gangsta was not the last mix Michael did).

Where did you read this? Just curious.

 

[Graf]

There's no songs in the vault in such state. That's the problem here and that's why we have these discussions. That's just not the way MJ worked. He worked on a lot of material simultaneously and thus not finishing any of the tracks that didn't make the final tracklists of his albums with exceptions like outtakes such as Shout and others that were eventually released as B-sides on singles or on Greatest Hits collections and box-sets. All other unreleased tracks are unfinished and need some kind of "finishing" - producing.

Regardless of what is in the vault of songs, I've always just preferred to hear Michael's version no matter how finished or unfinished they happen to be. 'Cheater' is considered a 'demo' - thus 'unfinished' but it sounds pretty great to me.

But that's what Xscape was! Just that the contemporised versions were not on a separate disc.

I wonder if people would have been more accepting if the demos would have been first on the album with the remixes after or on separate disc.

Oh I know, but my perspective has always been Michael's version,even if their demos, should be made first on the album. I don't really have a problem if the other versions are secondary. I would take Michael's demos of a song over a 'finished' version by someone else, every time.

 

[Tony R]

^ I hear you but you can play in any order

Real crimes are Thriller 25 and Shitbull on Bad25.

This is the aural equivalent of someone walking into my house on Christmas Day and pissing on my kids.

 

[Graf]

^ I hear you but you can play in any order

Real crimes are Thriller 25 and Shitbull on Bad25.

This is the aural equivalent of someone walking into my house on Christmas Day and pissing on my kids.

:lol:

 

[OnirMJ]

I wonder if people would have been more accepting if the demos would have been first on the album with the remixes after or on separate disc.

That would make no sense at all given the concept of the album that was discussed in length in various interviews, TV appearances and even in CD booklet. Those songs were not remixes but album versions of the songs. As they said "contemporized" versions - they decided not to try to finish Michael's unfinished material because no one can know for sure how would Michael do that so they decided for this concept. Creating brand new songs around Michael's vocals, new songs that are inspired by Michael Jackson and his vocals. As they often said they didn't try to finish unfinished songs from '80s and '90s, they wanted to create new songs, something Michael might have recorded in 2014 if he had lived, something that he might have recorded in 2014, brand new and not finishing unfinished production on old songs. That was the plan from the start of the project and that was transparently said, written in the booklet and even shown in the making of video. That was the concept they opted for. People should learn to accept that. It was their good will that they decided to release original versions of the songs. They didn't have to do that. But they did it for the fans. And it was the right decision.

 

[OnirMJ]

Where did you read this? Just curious.

Xscape Origins by Damein Sheilds. Songs co-writter Elliot Straite aka Dr. Freeze is quoted for saying that. And Damian did have interview with him. The leaked version is the last mix/version Michael worked on.

 

[OnirMJ]

Regardless of what is in the vault of songs, I've always just preferred to hear Michael's version no matter how finished or unfinished they happen to be. 'Cheater' is considered a 'demo' - thus 'unfinished' but it sounds pretty great to me.

Yeah, but MJ would never put it in such state on his studio album. So why would his Estate? Also radios wouldn't play it in such unfinished state.