Did lack of B-sides hinder MJ's charts success?

dannyboysays

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Throughout the majority of his solo career, Michael Jackson's single releases tended to be accompanied by several forgettable dance remixes and fans were very rarely treated to entirely new songs in the form of B-sides.

Do you feel that this might have affected the chart performance of Michael's single releases?

As a long-term fan I would often buy his new singles when they were released on cassette tape or CD.

But I was always frustrated that almost all of the singles were only accompanied by an array of dance remixes. There was nothing new to enjoy.

Michael released lots of singles from his solo albums (no less than NINE from Dangerous!) but I believe that the absence of B-sides may have hampered the performance of his singles on the charts. I think that the absence of interesting, new and exciting B-sides (or even alternate versions, demos, acoustic versions, etc.) may have dissuaded many MJ fans from going out and purchasing the single from stores, ultimately reducing their sales. Because they weren't getting anything new aside from a few forgettable remixes.

I believe that the inclusion of B-sides could have helped Michael's singles to perform much better in the international charts. They could have been the difference between Michael enjoying a moderate top ten placing and him achieving a number one smash hit single. I would even go so far as to suggest that Michael could have racked up at least as many number one singles as The Beatles or Elvis if he had included new tracks on them.

Michael always claimed to be a prolific writer. But unfortunately we never got to enjoy much of his 'B material' until after his death. I would have loved to have been able to enjoy these songs within his lifetime. I believe that having a larger song catalogue in the form of available B-sides would have added to his legacy as a singer and songwriter by adding 'depth' to his cannon.

Imagine, for instance, that the singles from the Bad album (IJCSLY, TWYMMF, Man in the Mirror, Smooth Criminal, etc.) had been accompanied by an array of B-sides such as Streetwalker, Fly Away, We Are Here to Change the World (from Captain Eo), The Price of Fame, Al Capone, etc.)

Imagine that the singles from the Dangerous album (which were less successful than those from Bad) had been accompanied by B-sides such as Someone Put Your Hand Out, For All Time, Do You Know Where Your Children Are, Slave to the Rhythm, (the fabled) Men in Black, etc.

These B-sides could have been supplemented by demos, alternate versions, live versions, etc.

New singles featuring brand new MJ material would have been a HUGE hit with fans and helped many more singles to soar to number one in the charts. Every single release would have been an 'event.' What's more, album sales could potentially have been boosted by the release of 'special editions' released a few months afterwards which collected all the extra tracks on a bonus disc.

What do you think?
 
I think he should have done more b-sides. I agree about the remixes. For a man who didn't care for remixes, he sure had a lot on his single releases.

The only b-side that comes to mind that he released was "Shout" on the "Cry" single.
 
I think CDs eventually killed the idea of a B-side, because a B-side was side 2 of a 45 single, and later maybe a 12" maxi single. CD singles cost more than the vinyl 45s. Also since a CD could hold more time than the old formats like the LP, cassettes, or 8-tracks, acts could put the leftover songs on the album. I think this phased out the popularity of singles. Most 45s by all acts didn't have specially recorded songs exclusive to the single. A B-side was usually a song from the same album, an instrumental version of the A side, or a song from an older album. There are cases where some acts never released albums and only released singles. This usually happened with small independent labels.

A 45 had 2 songs on it, there weren't a bunch of remixes. Remixes were on maxi singles, and these didn't count on the regular singles charts in Billboard. There was a separate chart for that called "dance singles", "club singles", or "disco singles", depending on the year the chart was compiled. There are cases where a remix is the 45 version and not on the album. Most people who bought 45s probably weren't aware if a B-side was exclusive to it, unless they were a big fan of the act. I don't think people in general cared. People who bought the albums generally didn't buy the singles, so I don't think that helped sales much. There were some acts who were known for exclusive B-sides though.
 
I think CDs eventually killed the idea of a B-side, because a B-side was side 2 of a 45 single, and later maybe a 12" maxi single. CD singles cost more than the vinyl 45s. Also since a CD could hold more time than the old formats like the LP, cassettes, or 8-tracks, acts could put the leftover songs on the album. I think this phased out the popularity of singles. Most 45s by all acts didn't have specially recorded songs exclusive to the single. A B-side was usually a song from the same album, an instrumental version of the A side, or a song from an older album. There are cases where some acts never released albums and only released singles. This usually happened with small independent labels.

You think so? Of the 5-8 CD Singles I had when I was a youngin (all of which I bought near the end of the CD Single era so around 2005/2006), they all had B-Side like tracks, tracks that weren't on the album they were technically promoting. They also did have a remix on there as well (some even had music videos - "Enhanced CDs" they were called).

I noticed that this B-side like material stopped happening when they discontinued making CD singles (for the most part) and focused on digital music stores like iTunes, where more often than not it would just be the one song available as the single. Although sometimes CD Singles will still have a B-Side. I just remembered Adele's song Skyfall (which came out 2012) on iTunes has just the song, but the CD Single also has the instrumental.
 
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I'll be honest here, and it's most likely because of my age, but after I quit buying 45s as a teen in the 70's, I didn't even realize that something called a CD single had taken its place. I really thought we had gone straight from 45s to i-tunes, because that's what i-tunes reminded me of. I never saw them in stores. Or maybe because I wasn't looking for them. I knew they were still releasing singles (because of the stats for OTW, Thriller and BAD), but I just thought they were 45s still, or radio singles.

I first heard about them after I joined this forum-and people were talking about collecting CD singles-I looked it up in Wikipedia and it looks like they were not very big in the US-much more popular in Europe, especially England.


edited to add: of course the B side of 45s always had a completely different song-usually a less popular song and not always from the same album. I remember we used to get multiples of the same B side song on different singles. But then remixes weren't done back then.
 
I'll be honest here, and it's most likely because of my age, but after I quit buying 45s as a teen in the 70's, I didn't even realize that something called a CD single had taken its place. I really thought we had gone straight from 45s to i-tunes, because that's what i-tunes reminded me of. I never saw them in stores. Or maybe because I wasn't looking for them. I knew they were still releasing singles (because of the stats for OTW, Thriller and BAD), but I just thought they were 45s still, or radio singles.
In the late 1980s though the early 1990s, there were cassette singles. The 45 equivalent sometimes had the 2 songs on both sides of the tape, I guess so you don't have to rewind it. The maxi single version was usually the same as the vinyl. Occasionally the cassette and vinyl maxi singles had different remixes. I also remember the cassette version of an album sometimes had extra tracks not on the record. This later happened with CDs too. Like the Bad record and cassette didn't have Leave Me Alone on them. The last song was Smooth Criminal.
 
I think he should have done more b-sides. I agree about the remixes. For a man who didn't care for remixes, he sure had a lot on his single releases.

The only b-side that comes to mind that he released was "Shout" on the "Cry" single.

Agreed (with the bold).

Not to forget Come Together on Remember The Time in 1992 with all its extra ad-libs. This version is by far better than the HISotry album version.
 
In the late 1980s though the early 1990s, there were cassette singles. The 45 equivalent sometimes had the 2 songs on both sides of the tape, I guess so you don't have to rewind it. The maxi single version was usually the same as the vinyl. Occasionally the cassette and vinyl maxi singles had different remixes. I also remember the cassette version of an album sometimes had extra tracks not on the record. This later happened with CDs too. Like the Bad record and cassette didn't have Leave Me Alone on them. The last song was Smooth Criminal.
True-I started having to buy cassettes of albums around 1990 when it got hard to find vinyl-CDs were taking over-but again, that wasn't a single-it was the whole album. I ended up having to buy Dangerous that way.
 
You think so? Of the 5-8 CD Singles I had when I was a youngin (all of which I bought near the end of the CD Single era so around 2005/2006), they all had B-Side like tracks, tracks that weren't on the album they were technically promoting. They also did have a remix on there as well (some even had music videos - "Enhanced CDs" they were called)
Some acts might have still put extra songs in later years, but exclusive B-sides (and not album tracks or instrumentals) happened more in the vinyl era up till the 1990s. Sometimes these B-side tracks are put on remastered CDs today.
 
Kids today don't know about b-sides.
They be like "oh, like the extra tracks you get on the deluxe edition on iTunes?"
 
I never had the impression that MJ was lacking in chart success.

I also think buying singles was mainly a thing in the US and maybe UK. In my country, for example, there was never really a culture of singles (well, until the Internet era and iTunes) because they were too expensive for people compared to the content. So people bought albums. And record stores hardly even kept singles.
 
Really? I think its the opposite.
I'm an American who grew up in Europe most of my early life.
The whole music market was built on maxi CD singles. I mean, if an artist put out a single, they had a CD you can buy in the stores.

The U.S. had singles you can buy, but it was NOTHING compared to Europe. Most of the time, they wouldn't have a physical single at all (and most shops singles section was VERY small). All the big places to buy music (at least during the years I grew up) in the states had very limited singles you can get. America was more focused on getting you to buy that album.

The states use of singles was mostly vinyl, which I guess DJ's were more of a target audience.
 
Well, I am from Eastern Europe where people are poor. Here they did not buy singles. It's possible that in Western Europe it was different.

People always talk about how the Internet killed the music industry and sales, but I think that's only true about albums. I think iTunes is probably a lot better for singles than physical singles were. I can say I have bought a lot more singles (songs) on iTunes than I have ever did in the era of physical singles. (I only ever bought one single, Scream/Childhood, and I think that was also the only MJ single I have ever seen in a record store.)
 
yes, singles were a big deal in Western Europe as well. I remember buying single after single like there was no tomorrow, back in the 90's. there were several singles released with the same song, they just had different remixes. I have 4 different singles for almost each song that were released as singles from HIStory
 
Not sure it hindered him, in the UK the vast majority of singles all went Top 10.

Only obvious exceptions that spring to mind are Gone Too Soon (first single as the allegations hit) and Cry (which, ironically did have a genuine unreleased B side!).

Also, one of his best loved and most enduring songs, Man in the Mirror only got to something like 23 on first release! As that y that time, everyone thought, 'I'll just buy the goddamn album!".

I loved it when we did get a surprise such as full Come Together on RTT (I can genuinely remember my excitement as I saw that in HMV) and Shout, but I can see why there weren't more. Remember that Michael didn't believe in album tracks or B sides, if a song wasn't good enough to put on an album then it wasn't good enough full stop.

The first five singles from Bad were huge successes (all number one in U.S. ) and by then everyone just went out and bought the albums.

There are many artists with a more successful singles career in terms of number ones e.g. Madonna or Rhianna, but album wise they both sell minimal amounts compared to MJ.

I think he saw singles and the accompanying short films as commercials for the albums mainly. Hence why he released so many, as they were all justifiably good enough to represent that album they came from.

As a hardcore fan I bought everything and still have my 7" from OTW through to the CD singles from HiStory and Invincible. It was always exciting to see what was on there, and I recall being excited by the mega remixes on early HIStory singles and remixes from his earlier works.

So to answer the question, I'm sure he may have sold a few more singles but not lots, fans would buy the singles anyway and casual fans are more worried about the A side.

Good thread though.
 
Really? I think its the opposite.
I'm an American who grew up in Europe most of my early life.
The whole music market was built on maxi CD singles. I mean, if an artist put out a single, they had a CD you can buy in the stores.

The U.S. had singles you can buy, but it was NOTHING compared to Europe. Most of the time, they wouldn't have a physical single at all (and most shops singles section was VERY small). All the big places to buy music (at least during the years I grew up) in the states had very limited singles you can get. America was more focused on getting you to buy that album.
This was not the case during the 45 era. 45 singles were a big market, but not maxi singles as much. They were more expensive and Top 40 radio generally didn't play longer songs which was often the case of remixes on the maxi singles. Many stores didn't carry 12" maxi singles, but you could buy a 45 at K-Mart, Target, or some other department store. Maxi singles were usually in stand alone record stores. Many people didn't buy albums, as they were costly, they only bought the songs they heard on the radio. 45's were cheap enough for many teens to buy too, unlike an album. This is where the concept of "one hit wonder" came about. They had a song that became popular on the radio, but not necessarily a popular album
 
I loved it when we did get a surprise such as full Come Together on RTT (I can genuinely remember my excitement as I saw that in HMV) and Shout, but I can see why there weren't more. Remember that Michael didn't believe in album tracks or B sides, if a song wasn't good enough to put on an album then it wasn't good enough full stop.
A B-side was not necessarily a lesser song. A few of Prince's B-sides got radio airplay like Erotic City and 17 Days. Into The Groove by Madonna was a B-side on the 12" to Angel in the US. It was not a stand alone single here. Many popular Beatles songs were B-sides.
 
A B-side was not necessarily a lesser song. A few of Prince's B-sides got radio airplay like Erotic City and 17 Days. Into The Groove by Madonna was a B-side on the 12" to Angel in the US. It was not a stand alone single here. Many popular Beatles songs were B-sides.

I know. Some of may favourite groups have had stunning B sides and have released full album compilations of them (Suede, Oasis for example), but the perception is that B sides are recorded tracks not good enough or did not fit onto the album. At least in the record company's eyes.
 
Hey, what about Ice Ice Baby by Vanilla Ice! That was a b-side!



With MJ, I think he was very much of the less is more philosophy and it worked extremely well. You were always left wanting more Michael Jackson music and everything he released had a certain visceral quality to it. The track on the single you were buying was of the highest standard. I would have loved a few decent b-sides definitely and I certainly don't think it would have hurt sales that's for sure. I'm happy enough to get extended versions, instrumentals and some of the remixes were OK, but getting a For All Time or an Escape as a b-side would have been incredible. I think he should have done that a bit more.
 
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I know. Some of may favourite groups have had stunning B sides and have released full album compilations of them (Suede, Oasis for example), but the perception is that B sides are recorded tracks not good enough or did not fit onto the album. At least in the record company's eyes.
Oasis released an incredible amount of material through b-side status! Each of their singles had 4 tracks like an EP and every track could be a hit like The Masterplan, Round Our Way, Acquiesce, Half The World Away, I Am The Walrus, Whatever, Come On Feel The Noise etc. I don't care what people think about Britpop and Oasis, it was all brilliant!
 
Hey, what about Ice Ice Baby by Vanilla Ice! That was a b-side!



With MJ, I think he was very much of the less is more philosophy and it worked extremely well. You were always left wanting more Michael Jackson music and everything he released had a certain visceral quality to it. The track on the single you were buying was of the highest standard. I would have loved a few decent b-sides definitely and I certainly don't think it would have hurt sales that's for sure. I'm happy enough to get extended versions, instrumentals and some of the remixes were OK, but getting a For All Time or an Escape as a b-side would have been incredible. I think he should have done that a bit more.

Yeah he definitely preferred less is more, I've said before he preferred to be perfect rather than prolific.
 
Really? I think its the opposite.
I'm an American who grew up in Europe most of my early life.
The whole music market was built on maxi CD singles. I mean, if an artist put out a single, they had a CD you can buy in the stores.

The U.S. had singles you can buy, but it was NOTHING compared to Europe. Most of the time, they wouldn't have a physical single at all (and most shops singles section was VERY small). All the big places to buy music (at least during the years I grew up) in the states had very limited singles you can get. America was more focused on getting you to buy that album.

The states use of singles was mostly vinyl, which I guess DJ's were more of a target audience.
You just backed up what I read on Wikipedia and most likely why I never saw them here-and I LIVED in record stores til about 88. Or when it just got flat out hard to find vinyl albums anymore. 45 singles, when we were growing up in the late 60's and 70's, were the thing for DJs and jukeboxes, kids and teenagers-til we all graduated to albums-we had zillions of them-because they were so cheap-in fact, I remember cutting them out off the back of cereal boxes. They played too-I think that's so funny now.
 
People always talk about how the Internet killed the music industry and sales, but I think that's only true about albums. I think iTunes is probably a lot better for singles than physical singles were. I can say I have bought a lot more singles (songs) on iTunes than I have ever did in the era of physical singles.

But the physical single or maxi single was around 6-9 $ or euros. Single on itunes is 0,99 or 1,29 $ or euros. That's why Rihanna sold 200 million "records" and Lady Gaga 140 million singles. In my opinion those are not singles, those are album tracks.
 
Complete Motown Singles

There were a few B-sides by the Jackson 5 and the solo albums from that period. They were put on box sets by Motown a few years ago going by year. But the box sets are all of their acts, not J5 only. I don't know if they're still in print or not though.
 
Not having b side songs on his albums very much effected his career... for the better! People buy for good music, for hits and potential classics.. not for b side curiousity..

He did that intentionally to sell more and show he only makes good ass music
 
People buy for good music, for hits and potential classics.. not for b side curiousity..
I don't know about that. That may be so for Top 40 radio listeners, but if a person is into jazz, new age, or gospel, there's no hit singles with that. There's a jazz album chart, but jazz songs are usually not released as singles because Top 40 doesn't play it, especially if it's instrumental. Herb Alpert used to get radio hits though.
 
B-sides would have added to the success. Fans would have purchased those singles for those extra tracks that couldn't be found elsewhere.
Artists like The Smiths and Suede didn't just throw their bad cast offs onto their singles as B-Sides, they intended to put album quality material on them.
In the 90s especially, single formatting rocketted. You could get CD single 1, CD2 and somtimes even CD3 as well as a cassette single and 7'' that may each all contain something exclusive. All those purchases could only add to the chart success of the single.

I did always wonder why such a big artist like MJ didn't have much quality B-side material.
 
There was another B-side: Can't Get Outta The Rain, on the single of The Girl Is Mine.
 
Can't Get Outta The Rain

There was another B-side: Can't Get Outta The Rain, on the single of The Girl Is Mine.
Technically, this is really the part 2 of the 12" version of You Can't Win. Can't Get Outta The Rain is on the B-side of Billie Jean too. The maxi single of Billie Jean has an instrumental version of the A side though.
 
B-sides would have been ideal on the lesser known songs that were released as singles or singles that were released 12-18 months after the release of the album. They may have guaranteed more success on the charts for those singles. I wonder why MJ never used many of his unreleased songs as B-sides. Maybe he wasn't happy with the quality of the songs that didn't make the final cut on the album.
 
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