Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a Producer

[Psychoniff]

from 25:04 minutes.

I'd advise you guys to listen to the whole video, it's really informing about MJ's true role in being a 'producer'.

It show's for one that wasn't always specific about what he wanted, and relied heavily on his collaborators to do the groundwork.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

Leave it to you to turn something positive into something negative. Again.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

Except Rob doesn't say anything that questions MJ role as a producer. Those things he describes at 25:04 - well, Quincy relied on such groundwork by collaborators as well, but I guess you wouldn't put "producer" in quotation marks when you talk about him. But we know already, Psychoniff that diminishing MJ as a creative force, especially as a songwriter and producer is your agenda on this board. You are getting boring and transparent at this point.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

Except Rob doesn't say anything that questions MJ role as a producer. Those things he describes at 25:04 - well, Quincy relied on such groundwork by collaborators as well, but I guess you wouldn't put "producer" in quotation marks when you talk about him. But we know already, Psychoniff that diminishing MJ as a creative force, especially as a songwriter and producer is your agenda on this board. You are getting boring and transparent at this point.

I was thinking the same thing :lol: and Rob actually said Jimmy Jam did it too. I think someone here doesn't know how things work in the studio and what producers do... :smilerolleyes:

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

it's really informing about MJ's true role in being a 'producer'.
It show's for one that wasn't always specific about what he wanted, and relied heavily on his collaborators to do the groundwork.

I don't have time to listen to it this morning, but I will-but the way you worded this, it's like you just want to prove that Michael didn't and couldn't write or produce songs.

Collaboration is well known and talked about and written about. In the OTW doc, Marlon and Jackie talk about the total change Greg Philliganes made to 'Shake your Body'-nobody's having a fit over that.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

I listened to the whole interview. It's a very nice interview, nothing that tries to diminish MJ or tries to take anything away from him. It's just Psychoniff's usual trick of trying to take things out of context and twist it into something that tries to diminish MJ as a writer or a producer. He does this all the time since he is on this forum. He did this with the Making Michael book and others as well.

Rob's post on the Gearslutz forum is also mentioned in the interview. The post where he posted things like:

One morning MJ came in with a new song he had written overnight. We called in a guitar player, and Michael sang every note of every chord to him. "here's the first chord first note, second note, third note. Here's the second chord first note, second note, third note", etc., etc. We then witnessed him giving the most heartfelt and profound vocal performance, live in the control room through an SM57.

He would sing us an entire string arrangement, every part. Steve Porcaro once told me he witnessed MJ doing that with the string section in the room. Had it all in his head, harmony and everything. Not just little eight bar loop ideas. he would actually sing the entire arrangement into a micro-cassette recorder complete with stops and fills.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-...-worked-michael-jacksons-dangerous-album.html

 

[Psychoniff]

^Except, that he did leave certain songs to the interpretation of the producer. I twisted nothing.

I was thinking the same thing :lol: and Rob actually said Jimmy Jam did it too. I think someone here doesn't know how things work in the studio and what producers do... :smilerolleyes:

He explained what a 'producer' is vs 'engineer' quite clearly, which is someone who has an overall vision for a project and dictats almost all element of it. If by what Rob said is true, that MJ did indeed leave projects to the interpretation of his collaborators whilst gone for weeks, so in what way is he overseeing and dedicating the entire project? Does that really make him a 'producer'?

This is in no way diminishing MJ, it's just we want the honest picture of his working habits and what he was like working in studio.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

^Except, that he did leave certain songs to the interpretation of the producer. I twisted nothing.

Oh so now that makes them the producer. MJ asking his musicians to provide them with hundreds of guitar samples from that he can choose from makes those who do that job the producer instead of MJ who is actually directing that work. Alright. I so knew this what you will get to. You are that predictable.

I guess Quincy Jones then wasn't really a producer either, because he did leave a lot of things to others as well. In fact, right after Rob says that about MJ he also says the same thing about how Jimmy Jam worked. I guess that means Jimmy Jam isn't a producer either. Or just a "producer" as you would put it.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

He explained what a 'producer' is vs 'engineer' quite clearly, which is someone who has an overall vision for a project and dictats almost all element of it. If by what Rob said is true, that MJ did indeed leave projects to the interpretation of his collaborators whilst gone for weeks, so in what way is he overseeing and dedicating the entire project? Does that really make him a 'producer'?

This is in no way diminishing MJ, it's just we want the honest picture of his working habits and what he was like working in studio.

He gave the example that MJ told them to provide him with hundreds of guitar samples by the next morning and they did. He didn't say MJ didn't have an overall vision for the project and didn't direct it. In fact, he says the exact opposite! Providing guitar samples is now having an overall vision for the project, instead of the guy having it who is giving you the orders about how to put a song together? LOL.

So yes, you ARE twisting it. And you are sweating to do so. LOL.

 

[Psychoniff]

He gave the example that MJ told them to provide him with hundreds of guitar samples by the next morning and they did. He didn't say MJ didn't have an overall vision for the project and didn't direct it. In fact, he says the exact opposite! So yes, you are twisting it.

If he wasn't present, how could he 'direct'? He went away for weeks without even specifying what a to b to c was. Rob even said that a lot of the interpretation of the tracks were left largely to Brad.

However, of certain other tracks MJ was indeed held full artistic control like TDCAU.

Ultimately, MJ as a producer was something of mixed bag to be honest, I don't think he had the nouse to come up with a whole album of tracks self-produced like Prince or Brian Wilson. I have nothing against MJ personally though, this is not attempt to 'twist' or ''diminish' anything. I'm a fan of his music, I'm not taking 'digs' like people have erroneously claimed.

He gave the example that MJ told them to provide him with hundreds of guitar samples by the next morning and they did. He didn't say MJ didn't have an overall vision for the project and didn't direct it. In fact, he says the exact opposite! Providing guitar samples is now having an overall vision for the project, instead of the guy having it who is giving you the orders about how to put a song together? LOL.

So yes, you ARE twisting it. And you are sweating to do so. LOL.

That was FOR a SPECIFIC track NOT the WHOLE album!

 

[Psychoniff]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

"I very seldom see you giving credit to him for anything."

LOL at that post.

If you check my profile posts then will KNOW that I have continuously given MJ credit. I don't need to go through them just check for yourself.

 

[KOPV]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

^Psychoniff - what is it exactly you get from pointing out what Michael did not/could not/would not do? We all know he never claimed to be an instrumentalist, stated he cannot read music.. In fact never called himself a great producer, director, or anything.. All the stories of his greatness behind the scenes.. (Well most) come from people that worked with him.

So why the need to point it out that way? We don't talk about how greg phillinganes could not hit specific notes, or produce specific ways.. We just say he was great at what he did. We don't say Quincy was a bad engineer...

Michael never claimed to be anything he's not, it's just freaking awesome how much he DID do without us knowing at the time.. In the 80's we did not know to the extent he would arrange his music, how much in the creation process he DID.. people gave that all to Quincy..

Michael was a musical genius and I think you know that..

 

[HIStory]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

If he wasn't present, how could he 'direct'? He went away for weeks without even specifying what a to b to c was. Rob even said that a lot of the interpretation of the tracks were left largely to Brad.

Directing is not necessarily about being present at all times. When you assigned your co-workers or employees with a certain task you don't necessarily have to be there at all times. Quincy wasn't either. And bosses aren't always there when the employees work, does that mean they are not directing? Besides Rob didn't say MJ left for weeks (like you keep saying here), he talked about MJ ordering them to do something and then left for the day or left them to that job overnight by the next morning.

Never in the interview he said MJ did not have the creative control over the project or that he did not have a vision or that he did not direct. That's your biased, agenda-filled twist of the story. In fact, he says just the opposite in the context.

Ultimately, MJ as a producer was something of mixed bag to be honest, I don't think he had the nouse to come up with a whole album of tracks self-produced like Prince or Brian Wilson. I have nothing against MJ personally though, this is not attempt to 'twist' or ''diminish' anything. I'm a fan of his music, I'm not taking 'digs' like people have erroneously claimed.

You absolutely do. You are obsessed with it. Most your posts on this board are about how MJ didn't really write his songs or produce his songs. And at other times it is digs at other aspects of MJ's life (eg. you tried to turned the Prince thread into a thread about MJ's supposed addiction). You keep taking quotes out of context for that while you omit other parts of an interview or a book where people talk about his creative genius as a writer or producer with great admiration. Rob did that too many times, so it is very twisted from you to try to interpret his words the way you do. What is that focus on the negative and even trying to twist postive statements into something negative if it is not an agenda?

 

[Psychoniff]

^Psychoniff - what is it exactly you get from pointing out what Michael did not/could not/would not do? We all know he never claimed to be an instrumentalist, stated he cannot read music.. In fact never called himself a great producer, director, or anything.. All the stories of his greatness behind the scenes.. (Well most) come from people that worked with him.

So why the need to point it out that way? We don't talk about how greg phillinganes could not hit specific notes, or produce specific ways.. We just say he was great at what he did. We don't say Quincy was a bad engineer...

Michael never claimed to be anything he's not, it's just freaking awesome how much he DID do without us knowing at the time.. In the 80's we did not know to the extent he would arrange his music, how much in the creation process he DID.. people gave that all to Quincy..

Michael was a musical genius and I think you know that..

I don't! That's loaded language.

Directing is not necessarily about being present at all times. When you assigned your co-workers or employees with a certain task you don't necessarily have to be there at all times. Quincy wasn't either. And bosses aren't always there when the employees work, does that mean they are not directing? Besides Rob didn't say MJ left for weeks (like you keep saying here), he talked about MJ ordering them to do something and then left for the day or left them to that job overnight by the next morning.

Never in the interview he said MJ did not have the creative control over the project or that he did not have a vision or that he did not direct. That's your biased, agenda-filled twist of the story. In fact, he says just the opposite in the context.



You absolutely do. You are obsessed with it. Most your posts on this board are about how MJ didn't really write his songs or produce his songs. And at other times it is digs at other aspects of MJ's life (eg. you tried to turned the Prince thread into a thread about MJ's supposed addiction). You keep taking quotes out of context for that while you omit other parts of an interview or a book where people talk about his creative genius as a writer or producer with great admiration. Rob did that too many times, so it is very twisted from you to try to interpret his words the way you do. What is that focus on the negative and even trying to twist postive statements into something negative if it is not an agenda?

I prefer it if we focus on the video that I posted and it's contents, rather make this whole thread about ME! Thanks!

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

OP needs to have an entire stadium of seats.
Michael was/is the best at so many things but you focus on the very few things that he wasn't.

 

[Psychoniff]

Directing is not necessarily about being present at all times. When you assigned your co-workers or employees with a certain task you don't necessarily have to be there at all times. Quincy wasn't either. And bosses aren't always there when the employees work, does that mean they are not directing? Besides Rob didn't say MJ left for weeks (like you keep saying here), he talked about MJ ordering them to do something and then left for the day or left them to that job overnight by the next morning.

Never in the interview he said MJ did not have the creative control over the project or that he did not have a vision or that he did not direct. That's your biased, agenda-filled twist of the story. In fact, he says just the opposite in the context.



You absolutely do. You are obsessed with it. Most your posts on this board are about how MJ didn't really write his songs or produce his songs. And at other times it is digs at other aspects of MJ's life (eg. you tried to turned the Prince thread into a thread about MJ's supposed addiction). You keep taking quotes out of context for that while you omit other parts of an interview or a book where people talk about his creative genius as a writer or producer with great admiration. Rob did that too many times, so it is very twisted from you to try to interpret his words the way you do. What is that focus on the negative and even trying to twist postive statements into something negative if it is not an agenda?

It was more that a "day", or "overnight". Rob said he was doing it for weeks, going on the train home to change clothes and eating chocolate covered espresso beans to stay awake.

Directing is not necessarily about being present at all times. When you assigned your co-workers or employees with a certain task you don't necessarily have to be there at all times. Quincy wasn't either. And bosses aren't always there when the employees work, does that mean they are not directing? Besides Rob didn't say MJ left for weeks (like you keep saying here), he talked about MJ ordering them to do something and then left for the day or left them to that job overnight by the next morning.

Never in the interview he said MJ did not have the creative control over the project or that he did not have a vision or that he did not direct. That's your biased, agenda-filled twist of the story. In fact, he says just the opposite in the context.



You absolutely do. You are obsessed with it. Most your posts on this board are about how MJ didn't really write his songs or produce his songs. And at other times it is digs at other aspects of MJ's life (eg. you tried to turned the Prince thread into a thread about MJ's supposed addiction). You keep taking quotes out of context for that while you omit other parts of an interview or a book where people talk about his creative genius as a writer or producer with great admiration. Rob did that too many times, so it is very twisted from you to try to interpret his words the way you do. What is that focus on the negative and even trying to twist postive statements into something negative if it is not an agenda?

That's a not true at all. I've posted many many threads about how I believe he was actually an underrated musical artist, from his singing to his songwriter. Again, like I responded to Mattyjam, check by posts for yourself, it's self-evident...really.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

Additionally, as far as I know MJ could do just about everything but play an instrument, and he could do things with his voice to the point that he didn't need an instrument.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

I prefer it if we focus on the video that I posted and it's contents, rather make this whole thread about ME! Thanks!

It is about you because the video doesn't say the things you claim it does. It doesn't say MJ was not the director. It doesn't say MJ did not have a vision. It doesn't say any of what you made out of it. Once again the quesion is why you insist on making something negative out of something that is actually positive. It's hard to give you the benefit of doubt any more when it is not the first time, not the second time, not even the third time. It is a pattern with you.

You did something very similar in the Making Michael thread. You took things out of context while failing to present other point of views from the same book that represented a different opinion about MJ than the agenda that you wanted to support.

I don't! That's loaded language.

You are not someone to complain about loaded language when you started this thread by putting MJ's role as a producer between quotation marks.

It was more that a "day", or "overnight". Rob said he was doing it for weeks, going on the train home to change clothes and eating chocolate covered espresso beans to stay awake.

So that means MJ was never in the studio and didn't give directions and didn't have a vision? Like I said you are sweating to make it into something that it is not and that was never claimed. LOL.

 

[KOPV]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

Psych - you didn't answer my question lol!..

what is it exactly you get from pointing out what Michael did not/could not/would not do?

 

[Psychoniff]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

^I found it interesting the way his behaviour was in studio, because we can't alway see what he was like, hearing it from people who worked closely with him is always eye-opening.


I've also seen comments many times, claiming that MJ was this wizkid who did EVERYTHING even play instruments and suggest incorrectly that people like Q. were overrated or not as important to the finished product than MJ. So hearing from those who worked with him clears much of this stan haze that is created by uninformed fans who seem to put MJ on a pedestal at every opportunity.

However, this is NO attempt to "twist" or "diminish" MJ's artist input as previous posts have suggested.

 

[LindavG]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

Ultimately, MJ as a producer was something of mixed bag to be honest, I don't think he had the nouse to come up with a whole album of tracks self-produced like Prince or Brian Wilson. I have nothing against MJ personally though, this is not attempt to 'twist' or ''diminish' anything. I'm a fan of his music, I'm not taking 'digs' like people have erroneously claimed.

I've also seen comments many times, claiming that MJ was this wizkid who did EVERYTHING even play instruments and suggest incorrectly that people like Q. were overrated or not as important to the finished product than MJ. So hearing from those who worked with him clears much of this stan haze that is created by uninformed fans who seem to put MJ on a pedestal at every opportunity.

If people are wondering what Psychoniff's agenda on this board is, THIS is it. I see this behaviour all the time from insecure Prince fans - putting Michael down as an actual creative artist with control over his music because that's Prince's territory. It's not that complicated.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

I've also seen comments many times, claiming that MJ was this wizkid who did EVERYTHING even play instruments and suggest incorrectly that people like Q. were overrated or not as important to the finished product than MJ. So hearing from those who worked with him clears much of this stan haze that is created by uninformed fans who seem to put MJ on a pedestal at every opportunity.

Strawman argument, because this is definitely not a typical stance by MJ fans. Some will point out that he did play some instruments occasionally (usually just in reaction to claims he didn't play any instruments at all), but I have never seen claims that he did everything in the studio all alone. You are mixing up Prince fans with MJ fans. To brag about how he did everything all alone is their thing, not MJ fans'.

Most MJ fans are perfectly aware of his method of creating music and are all fine with it. I appreciate the naturality and instinctiveness of his way which is at least as impressive to me as playing a million instruments. To me the important thing is that he was a creator, not the method that he used to create.

As for Quincy, the things that MJ fans say about him are usually in answer to suggestions that Quincy was the creator of MJ's success. When even articles make claims like Quincy wrote We Are The World with Lionel Richie while they don't even mention MJ, or when people until this day believe Quincy wrote MJ's music in the 80s then it is fair to point out that Q's role is often overstated because it is. There is a reason why that erroneous belief about Quincy being the writer of MJ's material is still held by some people.

And I think LindaG hit the nail on the head.

 

[analogue]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

To me the important thing is that he was a creator, not the method that he used to create.

Exactly. When MJ was composing Black Or White, he sang the guitar riff to Bill Botrell, and then Bill Botrell played it on guitar. Would the song sound better if MJ had played it on guitar instead? Of course not. It's the final result that's most important

 

[KOPV]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

Michael knew what he was 'great' or 'the best' at and that is what he contributed.. if he tried to take on everything and not use the 'best' in the business maybe he would have sold album like Brian Wilson or Prince too.

Not a nock on Prince, he was genius!!!!

 

[Psychoniff]

^^^But I've seen comments on this forum about Q. not being that important or overrated in the success of MJ. You don't have to put Q. down whilst clearing up any misconceptions about his true roll vs MJ's.

If people are wondering what Psychoniff's agenda on this board is, THIS is it. I see this behaviour all the time from insecure Prince fans - putting Michael down as an actual creative artist with control over his music because that's Prince's territory. It's not that complicated.

Based on what we know, am I wrong with that statement? Has MJ EVER written and produced ALL the songs on a single album in his entire career?

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

Psychoniff use the multiquote or edit buttons when you reply to more than one person.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Engineer Rob Hoffman On MJ role as a 'Producer'

^^^But I've seen comments on this forum about Q. not being that important or overrated in the success of MJ. You don't have to put Q. down whilst clearing up any misconceptions about his true roll vs MJ's.

LindaG indeed hit the nail on the head.

Your constant need of putting down MJ's production and other creative skills is all about stating the importance of Quincy to you, isn't it? But thing is Quincy didn't do all by himself either. He wasn't really a songwriter, for a start. (Yes, I know he did write some stuff earlier in his career in jazz, but in popular music he wasn't really a songwriter with the exception of writing or co-writing one-two songs.) He needed Michael, Rod Temperton and others to write the songs before he could produce anything. He also relied on musicians in many things. So if Quincy worked in team as a producer, why is it a bad thing for Michael to work in a team and not doing everything all alone? If you don't put "producer" in quotation marks next to Quincy's name (and I am sure you would not) why do you do that passive-agressive thing to MJ?

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Thread title has been changed to something more relevant to the content of Rob Hoffman's interview.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

If people are wondering what Psychoniff's agenda on this board is, THIS is it. I see this behaviour all the time from insecure Prince fans - putting Michael down as an actual creative artist with control over his music because that's Prince's territory. It's not that complicated.

Those Prince fans are just haters and they KNOW they're lying.
The only thing Prince fans always say is that MJ couldn't play instruments, or that MJ couldn't "write music like Prince".
They try to make it seem like Prince was a genius while belittling Michael to the point of saying that he "couldn't even write music".
Thing is, It's not as if MJ has NEVER wrote a song, we KNOW that MJ was an amazing songwriter.
Infact he was so good that he wrote many of his biggest hits.
That's why MJ was/is the best to ever do it.

Some artist can only sing, some can only dance, some can only write, and some can only play instruments.
Michael was/is a genius that could sing, dance, write, and the way I see it MJ used his voice as an instrument (very few people if any had MJ's VOCAL talent ALONG with being able to dance, it's normally one or the other).

Prince could've been the second coming of Mozart, and he wouldn't have been as big as Michael, it just wasn't going to happen.
No other solo artist in the HIStory of music has reached Michael's level of impact, success, and fame.

And I guess having owned half of the largest publishing company in the world, and owning your own catalogue with your music and the music of other lucrative artist isn't "having creative control of your music". *side eyes*

Some people do anything to discredit Michael, but when it comes to being an ALL AROUND ENTERTAINER Michael has very few if any weakspots.
If you have to tear down another artist to uplift your fave chances are your fave isn't as good as the artist your tearing down.

 

[LindavG]

Based on what we know, am I wrong with that statement? Has MJ EVER written and produced ALL the songs on a single album in his entire career?

Well, at least you're not denying the obvious, I have to give you credit for that.

No, Michael never wrote or produced all the songs on his albums on his own. That doesn't mean Michael was not a great songwriter or producer. It was just not a matter of principle for him the way it was for Prince. If he wanted to, he could have cut Man In The Mirror and Just Good Friends from the Bad album and replace them with one of his self-written songs just so he would have the bragging rights of writing the entire album on his own. But Michael never cared about that; he recognised MITM was a beautiful song and he was not too proud to include it on his album. And aren't we glad for that?

Michael could have taught himself to play instruments but he chose another method of composing, which was just as effective. Michael was never meant to be the kind of artist that sits behind a piano or strums the guitar on stage for two hours. If that's what you're looking for, there are plenty of other artists around who offer that but Michael performed his music in a different and equally impressive way.

Michael was not Prince but Michael did not want to be Prince. There's no point in comparing the two.