Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

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Phil Collins has opened up about his relationship with Michael Jackson, sharing his opinions on the alleged child sex abuse claims made against him.

Collins new memoir ‘Not Dead Yet’ is released this week, and features the former Genesis turned solo icon recalling his friendship with the ‘Thriller’ star and how he trusted him with his daughter Lily Collins – but added that ‘there’s no smoke without fire’.

“He’s very sweet and friendly,” he says of Jackson. “All thoughts of the weird things I’ve heard disappear in an instant,” he admits. “I don’t bat an eyelid when he invites Lily and Jill to pal upstairs in his toy room.”

Collins adds: “Michael Jackson, though clearly not the same as us mortals, is not the weirdo we’ve been led to expect. A brilliant musician and a nice guy who’s had to live an extraordinary life from the age of 5. But, even though I have no direct knowledge of the murkier side of Michael’s life, I have to say that there’s probably no smoke without some kind of fire.”

Jackson trial for child molestation charges in 2005 when he was found not guilty. He faced similar accusations from 13-year-old Evan Chandler in 1993, who sued him for allegedly sexually abusing him, before they reached a financial settlement and a criminal investigation was dropped due to a ‘lack of evidence’.

Meanwhile, details of Collins’ feud with Paul McCartney continue to unravel – after the former Beatle attempted to make peace with Collins when slammed for his ‘bad attitude’.

Phil Collins’ upcoming tour dates are below.

London, Royal Albert Hall (June 4, 5, 7, 8, 9)
Cologne, Lanxess Arena (11, 12)
Paris, Accors Hotel Arena (18, 19)

http://www.nme.com/news/phil-collins...claims-1789907
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

So you added the last part to the headline when it is not in the actual NME headline...

And "no smoke without fire" is probably the stupidest saying ever. One that many lynch mobs were based on.

And actually Collins doesn't say what he means by that. Whether he is referring to the allegations is only NME's guess.
 
whats 'strange' to me is how someone can have mentioning's of him that is 90% positive and great and at the end jab like that... Total contradiction!

“I don’t bat an eyelid when he invites Lily and Jill to pal upstairs in his toy room.” .. Than the "no smoke......"
 
Phil Collins on Michael Jackson child molestation claims: 'There is no smoke without some fire'

Former Genesis singer Phil Collins has addressed the child molestation allegations against his late friend Michael Jackson. In his new memoir Not Dead Yet, Collins praises the Thriller legend's musical prowess and states he has no direct knowledge of the sexual offence claims against Jackson.

In the autobiography, released on 20 October, Collins, 65, recalls visiting Jackson's home with his daughter Lily Collins and ex-wife Jill Tavelman. The In The Air Tonight singer writes of the king of pop: "He's very sweet and friendly. All thoughts of the weird things I've heard disappear in an instant. I don't bat an eyelid when he invites Lily and Jill to play upstairs in his toy room."

The child molestation claims were first brought against Jackson in the early 1990s. The Billie Jean singer, who died in 2009, was criminally charged with abusing a teenage boy in 2003 and put on trial before being acquitted in 2005.

Although Collins can not say with certainty, he believes there would be "no smoke without fire" in regards to the child sex abuse claims. The British singer writes in the memoir: "Michael Jackson, though clearly not the same as us mortals, is not the weirdo we've been led to expect.

"A brilliant musician and a nice guy who's had to live an extraordinary life from the age of five. But, even though I have no direct knowledge of the murkier side of Michael's life, I have to say that there's probably no smoke without some kind of fire."


Collins is in the midst of making a major comeback to music, breaking the short-lived retirement he began in 2011. The Against All Odds hitmaker will perform five nights at London's Royal Albert Hall with additional shows scheduled for Germany and France. With Collins finally back onstage, fans have called for a Genesis reunion, something the singer is willing to consider.

Addressing the possibility of the group reforming, Collins said at a press conference: "We're still great pals. Tony, Mike and I went out on my birthday in London. Anything can happen, really. I just don't want to suddenly take the break off and start flying off and doing things. I just want to do things carefully and think about the consequences."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/phil-colli...aims-there-no-smoke-without-some-fire-1588599
 
Re: Phil Collins on Michael Jackson child molestation claims: 'There is no smoke without some fire'

Thanks for sharing - There's a thread for this already!
 
Re: Phil Collins on Michael Jackson child molestation claims: 'There is no smoke without some fire'

How many threads do we need in this and all of them belong in the trials section with this kind of headline. Or in the Hood.
 
Re: Phil Collins on Michael Jackson child molestation claims: 'There is no smoke without some fire'

wow, another "friend" betrays Michael. big surprise :smilerolleyes:
 
Re: Phil Collins on Michael Jackson child molestation claims: 'There is no smoke without some fire'

Anyone who believes in the no smoke... theory in this day an age with the amount of bogus claims against many people is nothing more than an idiot
 
KOPV;4172148 said:
whats 'strange' to me is how someone can have mentioning's of him that is 90% positive and great and at the end jab like that... Total contradiction!

“I don’t bat an eyelid when he invites Lily and Jill to pal upstairs in his toy room.” .. Than the "no smoke......"

I'll give Phil the benefit of the doubt here, because if he thought there was a chance that Michael might be guilty, there's no way he would have let his kids pal upstairs in Michael's room.

And here's a great quote from Phil Collins about Michael
quote-when-children-see-michael-jackson-they-see-a-human-being-when-adults-see-him-they-see-phil-collins-92-41-59.jpg
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

Its a badly written article that leaves you confused. i don't think Phil is saying he thinks MJ did something.

Edit: just saw who created this thread in this part of the forum. Shock
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, how do we know he meant the allegations? Clickbait articles are the worst these days
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

Its a badly written article that leaves you confused. i don't think Phil is saying he thinks MJ did something.

Edit: just saw who created this thread in this part of the forum. Shock
Well, the thread was in the Mania section and that's supposed to be about his ART.
This headline has no place in the News or Mania sections. It seems like we are getting too many of these about the same thing.
 
Re: Phil Collins on Michael Jackson child molestation claims: 'There is no smoke without some fire'

wow, another "friend" betrays Michael. big surprise :smilerolleyes:

It's a badly written article that makes no sense, because one minute Phil Collins says that he never batted an eye lid when his kids spent time in Michael's room, and then the next minute he's saying that there's no smoke without fire. If Phil Collins really suspected that MJ might have been guilty, there's NO WAY he would have let his kids spend time in Michael's room.

Lets give Phil Collins the benefit of the doubt here.

It's funny how some fans are willing to turn on Phil Collins so quicky after a badly written article
 
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Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

Considering how Phil has been nothing but a staunch defender of Michael I'm going to say that this was taken out of context and/or may not be a reference to the allegations at all.
Him saying that wouldn't make sense along with the other things he said, and we all see who made this thread.

In general though, the smoke without fire idiom is a stupid thing to go by in any situation and can prove very foolhardy when deciding someone's innocence or guilt.
 
Re: Phil Collins on Michael Jackson child molestation claims: 'There is no smoke without some fire'

It's a badly written article that makes no sense, because one minute Phil Collins says that he never batted an eye lid when his kids spent time in Michael's room, and then the next minute he's saying that there's no smoke without fire. If Phil Collins really suspected that MJ might have been guilty, there's NO WAY he would have let his kids spend time in Michael's room.

Lets give Phil Collins the benefit of the doubt here.

It's funny how some fans are willing to turn on Phil Collins so quicky after a badly written article
I assumed it was about that, because the title of the thread is "Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

Considering how Phil has been nothing but a staunch defender of Michael I'm going to say that this was taken out of context and/or may not be a reference to the allegations at all.
Him saying that wouldn't make sense along with the other things he said, and we all see who made this thread.

In general though, the smoke without fire idiom is a stupid thing to go by in any situation and can prove very foolhardy when deciding someone's innocence or guilt.

I agree. The article is quite contradicting and judging by Phil's earlier comments about Michael I suspect it is taken out of context. We should know better, since this happened to Michael all the time.
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

I don't see an issue with Phil's comments personally.
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

There is plenty of smoke over the Chandlers, Arvizos, Francias, Robson and Safechuck, their lawyers and the police. Tom Sneddon and the media.
So yeah where there is smoke there is fire.
If it looks like extortion sounds like extortion it is extortion. (Chandler)
If it looks like a gold digger sounds like a gold digger it is a gold digger. (Chandler, Francia, Arvizo, Robson, Safechuck)
If it looks like a con artist sounds like a con artist it is a con artist. (Arvizo)
If it looks like malicious prosecution sounds like malicious prosecution it is malicious prosecution. (Zonen, Sneddon)
If it looks like a character assassination sounds like a character assassination it is a character assassination. (the media)
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

Can't imagine what Michael went through when these allegations were made against him. I never believed he was guilty and it's so unfortunate that there is information out there to refute these claims but not everyone wants to hear the truth. A few months ago, I came across a Youtube video of a speech Michael gave at Oxford University in 2001 entitled,"Heal the Kids." Check it out then ask yourself, why wasn't his speech counted among his other noteworthy accomplishments? It's a wonderful speech.
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

Can't imagine what Michael went through when these allegations were made against him. I never believed he was guilty and it's so unfortunate that there is information out there to refute these claims but not everyone wants to hear the truth. A few months ago, I came across a Youtube video of a speech Michael gave at Oxford University in 2001 entitled,"Heal the Kids." Check it out then ask yourself, why wasn't his speech counted among his other noteworthy accomplishments? It's a wonderful speech.

I think I've heard that speech before.
I loved it. :yes:

Also, welcome to MJJC
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

Honestly, I think Collin's comments were the most level-headed and fair comments I've heard.

The truth is, none of us know for sure what happened.

He shared his encounters with Michael, yet acknowledge despite the fact that they were friends, the possibility remains. I don't think that's a bad thing to say.
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

Honestly, I think Collin's comments were the most level-headed and fair comments I've heard.

The truth is, none of us know for sure what happened.

He shared his encounters with Michael, yet acknowledge despite the fact that they were friends, the possibility remains. I don't think that's a bad thing to say.

But couldn't that be said about anyone? All your friends could possibly be criminals then.
If the allegations don't make any sense why should we still believe that it might have happened?
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

^ what we do know is the stories/plot do not add up... There is more 'smoke' IN the accusers allegations over Michaels actions. That's something that is known for sure!
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

But couldn't that be said about anyone? All your friends could possibly be criminals then.
If the allegations don't make any sense why should we still believe that it might have happened?

No because none of my friends sleep in the bed with children, or have faced those allegations before.
I didn't say the allegations didn't make sense, I said there was no evidence for me to reason that he was guilty.
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

No because none of my friends sleep in the bed with children, or have faced those allegations before.
I didn't say the allegations didn't make sense, I said there was no evidence for me to reason that he was guilty.

I get what you mean. My problem: just because someone doesn't act strange he can't be guilty of something? I understand that people are suspicious of Michael and that his behaviour raised red flags but pedophiles usually don't act that 'stupid'. They are very clever and know how to manipulate and do things in secret. They don't talk about how there is nothing wrong with sharing a bed with children. There is a reason why people are able to molest their own family members: nobody suspects anything.
 
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Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

Honestly, I think Collin's comments were the most level-headed and fair comments I've heard.

The truth is, none of us know for sure what happened.

He shared his encounters with Michael, yet acknowledge despite the fact that they were friends, the possibility remains. I don't think that's a bad thing to say.

No, if he says it was possible that MJ molested any of his accusers he simply does not know the evidence.

Yes we can know for sure what happened because there is plenty of proof: taped evidence, medical evidence, admissions by the accusers and countless testimonies and interviews videos audio books magazines files which show that

1. MJ was not attracted to males but females ever since he was a young teen
2. His accusers repeatedly lied, contradicted themselves and each other
3. What the accusers said is simply impossible! Not just implausible but impossible.

On top of that the very idea of MJ being a serial molester and living the way he did
and getting away with it despite being investigated to the bones by multiple agencies for many years makes absolutely no sense. No serial molester who was as investigated and prosecuted as MJ ever got away with it. And every serial molester
case has not only multiple credible accusers but at least some proof: DNA or tapes or admission or child porn or
letters, emails, notes, photos, credible eyewitness. There is always something beyond the words of the accusers.
In MJ's case? There is nothing. The DAs had to use Mj's legal art photo books with pictures of nude people of all ages both genders against him, how desperate is that?

Or just think about the sleepovers. Name just one serial molester who has hundreds of sleepovers
with boys and girls, friends and relatives alike with their parents' full approval , while the parents can walk in the room
any moment, including in the parents' own homes? Over and over and over again. Molesters separate the kids
from their parents as much as they can , and they tried to pick kids who don't even have parents or just one.
Not kids like Jordan Chandler who not only had two parents and a stepfather too but his father was an unstable
aggressive greedy psycho. How stupid MJ would have been to molest THAT boy with THAT father?

Think about Neverland. Do you think a child molester would ever spend tens of millions of dollars to create a place like that with dozens of employees walking around left and right including mandatory reporters like firemen and policemen,
maids who had a key to his room and the parents themselves including fathers like Kit Culkin who let's just say
was not shrinking violin! Why would a molester risk to have so many potential witness around, every single one
of them could report him to the police or child services? Why would he want anyone from law enforcement like
Brian Barron to do security where he wants to molest kids? Why would he want Barron to document
who was coming and going on that ranch? Which criminal would want to create such a proof of his victims
being there with him at a particular time?

Do you think a black child molester would choose to create a trap for kids in white conservative Santa Barbara
with that racist DA and that racist sheriff department? Don't you think a black criminal would rather chose to live
in an area where zealous prosecution was less likely? Do you think a child molester would have stayed there in Sneddon's backyard after 1993?"

This is Michael Jackson we are talking about. He could have lived all over the world. He could have got orphans or kids who were neglected by their parents. He could have even paid for kids from poor countries.

But no. This supposed predator instead just drives around in California hoping that he would accidentally run into someone
like Jordan Chandler who not only had a mother and stepfather eager to establish a relationship using the boy but then that
boy despite being fully into girls would tolerate repeated molestation even happily go back to him over and over
and over again and then would have zero interest in putting him behind bars!
Seriously. what are the chances?

Fact is the whole story of MJ being a serial molester makes absolutely no sense.
You have to believe he was the dumbest and luckiest pedo ever to believe he was one.
 
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Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

"There's no smoke without fire" is a fallacy. It basically says if there are people accusing you of something then it follows that "something MUST have happened". That's just not true. There are such as false allegations - ie. smoke without fire.

I just wonder why they don't apply that same fallacy to the accusers themselves.
MJ accused the Chandlers of extortion. It was a case where both sides said they were victims. But somehow only Chandler's
accusations are regarded as smoke not MJ's.
Despite the fact that unlike the smoke over MJ, which is merely accusations, ever changing stories nothing else
the smoke over the Chandlers is actually their own taped words and admission in their own book.

And let's not talk about the amount of smoke over the Arvizos, their history of schemes and false accusations.
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

Sits waiting for collins to be added to the long list of celebs accused in the uk. no smoke without fire eh phil!
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

when the phrase "No smoke without fire" is used in the UK it means the person saying it believes the person they're talking about is wholly guilty or at least partially guilty of the things they're accused of. It is not used in any other way.

Phil's twist on the famous phrase doesn't make me think anything different applies to him. Phil Collins blatantly thinks there was some truth in the allegations.

I'm surprised some people here can't see anything wrong with what he said.
 
Re: Phil Collins discusses Michael Jackson child sex abuse claims: "There's no smoke without fire"

it's very true that where there is smoke there is fire... Does not tell you who is lighting those flames though!! The lighter and lighter fluid were found in the accusers hands.. Not Michaels!
 
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