Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 31

Thread: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

   
  1. #16
    Points: 33,835, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 75.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4,120
    Points
    33,835
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    600
    Thanked 3,713 Times in 1,052 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    I think part of the reason why Bad is my least favourite MJ album is because it just didn't feel like enough artistic growth to me, when you compare it to what Prince was doing at that time. I know we shouldn't compare the two, and Prince deliberately set out to make his piece de resistance with Sign O The Times, but being a massive fan of both, Bad just feels a bit juvenile in comparison. Weirdly enough, the roles seem to reverse in the early 90s, with MJ making his most accomplished and serious album to date with Dangerous, while Prince was chasing trends with the inconsistent Diamonds & Pearls.

    Don't get me wrong, I still feel like the Bad album is a terrific pop album. And perhaps it's easy to take songs like MITM, Dirty Diana and Smooth Criminal for granted when you've known them since you were five years old. But I just feel like Bad could've been more. I feel like he didn't take many risks with that album. I mean, listen to a song like Abortion Papers. That outtake is one my favourite posthumously released cuts, and I think a song like that in place of Just Good Friends would've given the album a certain edge that it otherwise lacked. For an album called Bad, MJ really played things rather safe.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to MattyJam For This Useful Post:


  3. #17
    Points: 19,545, Level: 88
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 305
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassVeteranThree Friends10000 Experience PointsOverdrive

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Clare, Ireland
    Posts
    3,608
    Points
    19,545
    Level
    88
    Thanks
    2,490
    Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,563 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJam View Post
    I think part of the reason why Bad is my least favourite MJ album is because it just didn't feel like enough artistic growth to me, when you compare it to what Prince was doing at that time. I know we shouldn't compare the two, and Prince deliberately set out to make his piece de resistance with Sign O The Times, but being a massive fan of both, Bad just feels a bit juvenile in comparison. Weirdly enough, the roles seem to reverse in the early 90s, with MJ making his most accomplished and serious album to date with Dangerous, while Prince was chasing trends with the inconsistent Diamonds & Pearls.

    Don't get me wrong, I still feel like the Bad album is a terrific pop album. And perhaps it's easy to take songs like MITM, Dirty Diana and Smooth Criminal for granted when you've known them since you were five years old. But I just feel like Bad could've been more. I feel like he didn't take many risks with that album. I mean, listen to a song like Abortion Papers. That outtake is one my favourite posthumously released cuts, and I think a song like that in place of Just Good Friends would've given the album a certain edge that it otherwise lacked. For an album called Bad, MJ really played things rather safe.
    When you talk of artistic growth, Speed Demon and Liberian Girl are two songs that immediately jump at me, out of all of his catalogue. Smooth Criminal is taking pop writing to a whole new level too.

    The reason I think Bad is his best AND most important album are because of how much he has grown from Thriller to Bad. Writing nearly all the songs, using his voice now as a part of the music, a la Speed Demon, Smooth Criminal (he becomes an extension of the percussion for me).

    Fair enough, when you compare Sign O The Times (my favourite Prince album) with Bad, we can definitely say he took more risks. But Michael came back with IJCSLY as the lead single AFTER Thriller! Prince, also could have used U Got The Look as the lead and set the album off to an amazing start but didn't. Fair play to both of them


    One thing is for sure though. If Prince had a Quincy Jones, Sign O The Times would not have been 2 discs, would not have had Hot Thing or Housequake. From certain interviews I get annoyed at how much say Michael let producers have in his output, the 2 major examples being Quincy challenging Streetwalkers inclusion and apparently saying Michael could NOT call the album Smooth Criminal. (He was right with Streetwalker though).

    No force of nature can break your will to self motivate.

  4. #18
    Points: 33,835, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 75.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4,120
    Points
    33,835
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    600
    Thanked 3,713 Times in 1,052 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Quote Originally Posted by innuendo141 View Post
    When you talk of artistic growth, Speed Demon and Liberian Girl are two songs that immediately jump at me, out of all of his catalogue. Smooth Criminal is taking pop writing to a whole new level too.

    The reason I think Bad is his best AND most important album are because of how much he has grown from Thriller to Bad. Writing nearly all the songs, using his voice now as a part of the music, a la Speed Demon, Smooth Criminal (he becomes an extension of the percussion for me).

    Fair enough, when you compare Sign O The Times (my favourite Prince album) with Bad, we can definitely say he took more risks. But Michael came back with IJCSLY as the lead single AFTER Thriller! Prince, also could have used U Got The Look as the lead and set the album off to an amazing start but didn't. Fair play to both of them


    One thing is for sure though. If Prince had a Quincy Jones, Sign O The Times would not have been 2 discs, would not have had Hot Thing or Housequake. From certain interviews I get annoyed at how much say Michael let producers have in his output, the 2 major examples being Quincy challenging Streetwalkers inclusion and apparently saying Michael could NOT call the album Smooth Criminal. (He was right with Streetwalker though).
    I'm not sure I agree with you on that.

    Look at the transition from OTW to Thriller, or Bad to Dangerous. Those are examples of artistic growth. Imagine being an MJ fan with OTW and then buying Thriller and hearing an all-out rock track complete with Eddie Van Halen shredding all over the shop. Or you have the storytelling pop-drama of Thriller with the Vincent Price rap, or the sinister undertones of Billie Jean. Thriller was heading in new, exciting directions for MJ. Bad was just more of the same.

    Don't get me wrong, the songwriting on Bad was exceptional. The entire second half of the album is without flaw. But there's not really anything on there that was startlingly new or different for MJ. Perhaps MITM or Liberian Girl were a bit different for MJ at that time, but it's hardly anything drastic.

    The transition from Bad to Dangerous showed far more artistic growth imo. Dangerous is like MJ's Sign O The Times, an album that's so eclectic and ambitious and made at the height of his creativity, it's almost as if he's showing off at times. Like he's saying "yeah I can do some New Jack Swings cuts, then I'm gonna do a pop-rock song, followed by a grunge track and then I'm gonna stick Beethoven's Ninth Symphony in there and bust out a gospel anthem." It's lofty in its ambitions, but he doesn't just pull it off, he excels at it.

  5. #19
    Points: 19,545, Level: 88
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 305
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassVeteranThree Friends10000 Experience PointsOverdrive

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Clare, Ireland
    Posts
    3,608
    Points
    19,545
    Level
    88
    Thanks
    2,490
    Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,563 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJam View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with you on that.

    Look at the transition from OTW to Thriller, or Bad to Dangerous. Those are examples of artistic growth. Imagine being an MJ fan with OTW and then buying Thriller and hearing an all-out rock track complete with Eddie Van Halen shredding all over the shop. Or you have the storytelling pop-drama of Thriller with the Vincent Price rap, or the sinister undertones of Billie Jean. Thriller was heading in new, exciting directions for MJ. Bad was just more of the same.

    Don't get me wrong, the songwriting on Bad was exceptional. The entire second half of the album is without flaw. But there's not really anything on there that was startingly new or different for MJ. Perhaps MITM or Liberian Girl were a bit different for MJ at that time, but it's hardly anything drastic.

    The transition from Bad to Dangerous showed far more artistic growth imo. Dangerous is like MJ's Sign O The Times, an album that's so eclectic and ambitious and made at the height of his creativity, it's almost as if he's showing off at times. Like he's saying "yeah I can do some New Jack Swings cuts, then I'm gonna do a pop-rock song, followed by a grunge track and then I'm gonna stick Beethoven's Ninth Symphony in there and bust out a gospel anthem." It's lofty in its ambitions, but he doesn't just pull it off, he excels at it.
    We will agree to disagree! I'm one of the ones who doesn't have Dangerous in my top 3 albums, but as much as he did try different things he also tried to 100% emulate the exact same idea with Keep The Faith, which doesn't work nearly as well as MITM for me. I do agree that it seems that he went all out with Dangerous (I think he perfected this with HIStory, however).

    I do agree with you in a way that Bad was safe. Its safe as houses in many ways, but I think Speed Demon, Liberian Girl, Smooth Criminal and Leave Me Alone stand out more as absolute "out there" masterpieces and can't be considered as safe. The bass during the chorus of Speed Demon is astonishing. The instrumentation and arrangement of Liberian Girl is flawless.

    In many ways it stems from what I said about Quincy. I can absolutely guarantee you that with the demos and recordings Michael made with "The B Team" before presenting them to Quincy, you would have had your Sign O The Times.

    In defense of Bad being safe, in recording it Michael literally had nothing to complain about. The backlash hadnt started so he was riding the crest of a wave with no obvious negativity in his life yet. By the time Dangerous came around, he had plenty to say and I imagine a lot of frustration built up. This is a reason why I love Bad so much. Leave Me Alone set the precedent of things to come with Dangerous and HIStory.

    If anything, you could argue that Bad = Purple Rain and Dangerous = Sign O The Times. I chose Bad over Thriller because Michael had more of a hold on Bad artistically.

    No force of nature can break your will to self motivate.

  6. #20
    Points: 21,232, Level: 91
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 118
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Tony R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,107
    Points
    21,232
    Level
    91
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 3,256 Times in 1,136 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Great thread!

    I haven't had the time to pop in & say my piece unti now. Plus Im not as much of an afficionado on Prince as some of you so apologies for that.

    I guess there's two ways of comparing them..

    The reason why MJ is my favoutite of all time rather than say Madonna, Stevie Wonder & Prince who I also love (especially Madonna), is his amazing quality control. Thriller, Bad & Dangerous meant he released 3 perfect albums in a row (yes, JGF & CLHGW may not be perfect tracks but at the same time they don't deflect from the album's overall quality), add that that the bookended albums of OTW that is 80% perfect & HIStory which is again 80-90% perfect which on a 15 track album is amazing - and this makes for the best artist of all time. And I'm not talking short films, dancing, tours etc. This is just the quality of the music.

    So would I rather have that, or Prince & Madonna who released double or triple the albums but the quality varies amazingly by album and within album?

    I'll extend the topic to Madonna as I know much more about her. For me,from her 13 studio albums - only 4 of them are brilliant. The rest have amazing stuff on. But some only have 2 or 3 killer songs. It still means that in her 33 year career there's enough fantastic & mind blowing stuff to make her my 2nd favourite. But in terms of favourite albums of all time, I'd only say 'American Life', 'Hard Candy' & 'Erotica' (yes, I know the ones everyone else hates!).

    As far as I understand it,if you include all the NPG, 3rd Eye Girl and other extra stuff he did, Prince released 30 albums. And from the ones I have & heard, I haven;t found that definitive album yet.

    It's a bit like when Alan Partridge was asked what his favourite Beatles album was and he replies, "I'd have to say, The Best Of The Beatles'.

    On the subject of how much did Michael grow as a performer between his albums. Firstly, I'd ask how relevant that was. If he didn't grow much between Thriler & Bad (which is debatable) then it doesn't matter as Bad is a ****ing perfect album. So would I have rather he'd gone all Sergeant Pepper & released a substandard piece of work, or would i rather he released another stunnign album that sold 35million and again set the world on fire.

    The answer is the latter. Plus, anyway, songs like Smooth Criminal, TWYMMF showed a maturity plus not to mention going from writing only 3 songs on Thriller to 9 on Bad shows amazing progression.

    But yes, the change in Michael from Thriller to Bad was massively leapfroged by his change from Bad to Dangerous & then HIStory. It's like a totally different artist. Songs like TDCAU, Who Is It, WYBT, Earth Song, Jam and many others are also unrecognisable as the '80s stuff.

    Anyway, sorry I've digressed a bit from Prince. So I will say that 7 is my favourite Prince track, just so you know.
    I CAN'T TAKE IT 'COS I'M TONY

  7. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Tony R For This Useful Post:


  8. #21
    Points: 33,835, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 75.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4,120
    Points
    33,835
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    600
    Thanked 3,713 Times in 1,052 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    All I took from that is that you prefer Hard Candy to Ray of Light. I mean, really? Tony, when was the last time you went for a check-up? They can flush your ears now if they're blocked up with too much wax, with this special gadget they use.

  9. #22
    Points: 21,232, Level: 91
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 118
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Tony R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,107
    Points
    21,232
    Level
    91
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 3,256 Times in 1,136 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJam View Post
    All I took from that is that you prefer Hard Candy to Ray of Light. I mean, really? Tony, when was the last time you went for a check up?
    Yep. I know RoL is supposed to me this seminal album that all the polls tell me I'm supposed to love (including Q so I must be wrong), but I don't. I adore the title track & like Frozen & Drowned World a lot, but the rest is rather bland.

    Not a big fan of Confessions either.

    So sue me, muddyfunster.
    I CAN'T TAKE IT 'COS I'M TONY

  10. #23
    Points: 19,545, Level: 88
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 305
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassVeteranThree Friends10000 Experience PointsOverdrive

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Clare, Ireland
    Posts
    3,608
    Points
    19,545
    Level
    88
    Thanks
    2,490
    Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,563 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony R View Post
    Anyway, sorry I've digressed a bit from Prince. So I will say that 7 is my favourite Prince track, just so you know.
    id like to step in here and say that is in fact a BRILLIANT tune.



    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

    No force of nature can break your will to self motivate.

  11. #24
    Points: 33,835, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 75.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4,120
    Points
    33,835
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    600
    Thanked 3,713 Times in 1,052 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Quote Originally Posted by innuendo141 View Post
    id like to step in here and say that is in fact a BRILLIANT tune.
    Saw it live and acoustic at the Hammersmith Apollo. Good times.

  12. #25
    Points: 19,545, Level: 88
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 305
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassVeteranThree Friends10000 Experience PointsOverdrive

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Clare, Ireland
    Posts
    3,608
    Points
    19,545
    Level
    88
    Thanks
    2,490
    Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,563 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJam View Post
    Saw it live and acoustic at the Hammersmith Apollo. Good times.
    Reading things like this always reminds me of how bitter I can be.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

    No force of nature can break your will to self motivate.

  13. #26
    Points: 21,232, Level: 91
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 118
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Tony R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,107
    Points
    21,232
    Level
    91
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 3,256 Times in 1,136 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJam View Post
    Saw it live and acoustic at the Hammersmith Apollo. Good times.
    The purple git didn't even sing a whiff of it for me. Think I got about 90 seconds on nineties stuff in the whole show.
    I CAN'T TAKE IT 'COS I'M TONY

  14. #27
    Points: 33,835, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 75.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4,120
    Points
    33,835
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    600
    Thanked 3,713 Times in 1,052 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    ^^ When/where did you guys see him?

  15. #28
    Points: 21,232, Level: 91
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 118
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Tony R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,107
    Points
    21,232
    Level
    91
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 3,256 Times in 1,136 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJam View Post
    ^^ When/where did you guys see him?
    Leeds Arena May 2014.
    I CAN'T TAKE IT 'COS I'M TONY

  16. #29
    Points: 33,835, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 75.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4,120
    Points
    33,835
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    600
    Thanked 3,713 Times in 1,052 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony R View Post
    Leeds Arena May 2014.
    Were those the shows he announced about two or three days before he played them?

  17. #30
    Points: 21,232, Level: 91
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 118
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Tony R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,107
    Points
    21,232
    Level
    91
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 3,256 Times in 1,136 Posts

    Default Re: Make a version of the Bad album with Prince tracks!

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJam View Post
    Were those the shows he announced about two or three days before he played them?
    Yep - was a bit of an exciting purple whirlwind!
    I CAN'T TAKE IT 'COS I'M TONY

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •