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Thread: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

   
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    Question How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    Hi everyone

    I've been reading and re-reading some books on MJ lately and that's something that I've been thinking about for a while now.

    How would you describe Michael's faith? (as far as we know about it)

    I know he separated from the Jehovah's Witnesses, but he still very much believed in God (remember the pictures of Blanket's christening; also, he always mentioned that he thanked God for the gift he gave him, he mentioned Jesus etc.) , so he must've valued Christianity a lot nevertheless.

    Then there's the rabbi tapes where he finds aspects of Judaism interesting and he attended prayers in synagogs and spent the Shabbat together with Boteach's family etc.

    But there's also Deepak Chopra, so there's Hinduism (or Spiritualism?) as well.

    And what about his love for nature? I was always wondering whether there's a religious/philosophical term for it. To me it seems that he saw God in every plant and tree etc. Is there a term for it, like a religious, spiritual oder philosophical movement? I would love to know because I feel much the same about nature.

    And did he really engage in Islam? I know that there were vast rumous that he converted to Islam but there's no proof, right?
    I can't remember him saying anything with regards to Islam, can you?

    It seems that his belief was a sort of conglomerate of various ideologies, religious and philosophical movements. But the core of his belief was Christianity. Would you agree?


    I know this is something personal and I hope this thread is okay. I don't want to speculate about Michael's faith, I'd just like to hear your opinion based on the things we know and the things he said. I find his view of the world so fascinating because it invites everybody in and leaves no one out.
    Music, in the precision of its form and the mathematical tyranny of its laws, escapes into an eternity of abstraction and an absurd sublime that is everywhere and nowhere at once.
    - Stephen Fry


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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    He was a Jeavoah Witness till 87 and then left. I think from that point on till his death, he didn't follow any religion but he did believe in God forever. So he was a theist but didn't follow any religion. I do believe that he always had a keen interest in religion, spirituality and philosophy.
    Last edited by Blue Criminal; 28-03-2017 at 06:56 PM.

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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    I would say he was closest to Christianity but not dogmatic or fundamentalist. Of course, it is just guessing, we cannot be in his head, but my impression is that while he believed in Jesus and he was the son of God (thus we can call him a Christian) but at the same time he was bothered by some of the more violent and unfair aspects of the Bible. I remember on the rabbi tapes he questioned some aspects of the Bible. My guess is that he accepted the parts of the Bible that are about love but rejected the violent and judgemental parts (thankfully).

    I think the rumours about Islam are just that - there is no evidence he ever converted to Islam.
    Last edited by respect77; 28-03-2017 at 04:11 PM.

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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    He believed in a higher power.... It seems he kept much of a biblical belief, but with his experiences, constant reading, and studying his mind opened/questioned and freed from many of the traps religion had on him.
    **He lives forever within us**

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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    Yeah and that's what I like so much about him. I mean, believing in something is completely personal and even though I might not necessarily understand/support everything he believed in, there's still so much in it that unites people and highlights the good things, you know. I so love his approach.


    How would you describe that love of nature, though? Is there a proper term for it? I'd so love to read more about it.
    Seeing the divine (whether you call it God or something else) in everything nature creates is so lovely I think.


    Some 10 years ago or so I wasn't aware that he was so deeply religious to be honest, but from what I've read in the last years, I think he really was and I'm glad he found some peace and grounding there as well, apart from his children and music etc.
    Maybe that's also because I'm older myself and I see things differently now.

    I don't know about you, but he really shaped my life and the way I think about nature and saving this planet etc. What a wonderful gift.
    Music, in the precision of its form and the mathematical tyranny of its laws, escapes into an eternity of abstraction and an absurd sublime that is everywhere and nowhere at once.
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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    We all know that he's a devout Jehovah's Witness for years yes until 1987 he quits because the elders trying to stifle his work and his dance moves again and again. He stays closer to God and believes in the studies from the bible and loves to do what Jesus does. He does love to study religion and experimented himself to what it's like, like for example he tried what Judism is like when Rabbi Shmuley invited him and he never wanted to be converted as I know. But as far as I believe that he's very much closer to God, has Christian values, loves life and he does really respect other religions bar none. That's class.
    SUPPORTER/FAN of MICHAEL JACKSON & NARUHINA

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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    That's class.
    Oh yes! He was such a role model in that way!

    Does anyone know whether the rabbi ever plans to fully release the audio material for the tapes? Would be so interesting to actually hear him say these things as tone of voice etc. are so important when making a statement.
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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    Quote Originally Posted by maja View Post
    How would you describe that love of nature, though? Is there a proper term for it? I'd so love to read more about it.
    Seeing the divine (whether you call it God or something else) in everything nature creates is so lovely I think.
    That what you probably mean is called pantheism.

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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelD View Post
    That what you probably mean is called pantheism.
    YES! That's it! Thanks a lot! I knew there was a term for it

    I think that, in a way, this was his approach as well. Not necessarily that God is 'only' nature itself (because he also believed in Jesus etc.) but that everything in nature has God in them. Like when he said "when I see the face of a child, I see the face of God." Or when he called 'mother earth' "she".

    I just found this article which I think is an interesting read: http://www.innermichael.com/2012/02/21/a-pantheist/
    Music, in the precision of its form and the mathematical tyranny of its laws, escapes into an eternity of abstraction and an absurd sublime that is everywhere and nowhere at once.
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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    Karen Faye said that Michael did not celebrate his own birthday. So I'd say he still followed the teachings of the Holy Bible.

    The thing with nature is that God created all things. If you truly want to know the intelligence of God, then study his creations. It's that simple. Michael did read the Bible everyday. He wasn't into the trinity, so he was separate from that agenda. He spoke of the innocence of children and how even Jesus was drawn to that and used this as an example for his disciples to follow. Michael was close to his Mother and she would have continued to talk to Michael what she was learning at the Kingdom Hall. Jehovah's Witnesses do preach to the ends of the earth the good news of God's coming Kingdom!

    Why Michael left the organization in 1987, was because of the gun issue. "Smooth Criminal" was the short film that Michael was shooting and the elder's did not approve of this action, the use of a firearm.


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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    He wasn't into the trinity, so he was separate from that agenda.
    Really? Where did he say that?

    Why Michael left the organization in 1987, was because of the gun issue. "Smooth Criminal" was the short film that Michael was shooting and the elder's did not approve of this action, the use of a firearm.
    I thought it was b/c of Thriller and b/c of the crotch grabbing? I remember him saying that somewhere.. hm..

    Oh, I also love the fact that he didn't believe in damnation and that e.g. children dying is somehow God's revenge for something. He said that in the Rabbi Tapes.
    Music, in the precision of its form and the mathematical tyranny of its laws, escapes into an eternity of abstraction and an absurd sublime that is everywhere and nowhere at once.
    - Stephen Fry


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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    He left the JW doctrine behind after many conflicts they had during his early adulthood. First it was the statement for the "Thriller" video, which Michael didn't even write. Then it was about his dance style, and finally it was him playing a gangster for "Smooth Criminal" (it seems JWs aren't allowed to carry weapons). Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if he tolerated them mainly for his mother, who remains a devout JW to this day.

    Back on topic, I think he kept an interest in many different faiths, but he did show reverence to God and Jesus. My main prayer for years is that he received Jesus personally through repentance, because the way he loved people and was condemned by so many others really paralleled Jesus' earthly ministry to me. I don't worship Michael, but as a Christian it pains me to think of him (or most anyone else) in such a horrible place as hell. None of us can know what he truly believed in the end, but my hope is he's with Jesus now...maybe even singing in a heavenly choir.

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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4 View Post
    He left the JW doctrine behind after many conflicts they had during his early adulthood. First it was the statement for the "Thriller" video, which Michael didn't even write. Then it was about his dance style, and finally it was him playing a gangster for "Smooth Criminal" (it seems JWs aren't allowed to carry weapons). Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if he tolerated them mainly for his mother, who remains a devout JW to this day.
    It was also because of the large use of the make-up in his ‘Thriller’ video.

    Jehovah's Witnesses’ leaders do not approve at all the extensive use of make-up, even if it is used exclusively for artistic purposes (such as, music videos, theatrical shows).

    When MJ released his ‘Thriller’ video, Jehovah's Witnesses’ leaders were vehemently against that. They even released statements strongly condemning that behavior.

    I suppose if he remained a Jehovah's Witness, then he would have never fulfilled his dreams with his ‘Ghosts’ short film (due to the necessary large use of make-up again).

    But, artists are artists & they are not expected to chafe at limitations posed by certain religions. So, I think that he did the right thing by gradually distancing himself from them.

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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    I have been thinking about how his religious beliefs are conveyed in his songs throughout his life and I think he did that very well. While it was obvious he was religious and he belonged to a certain faith (due to some Bible references in his lyrics) but I think he managed to do that tastefully. He never became overly preachy about religion and it never came across as him trying to shove down his faith on other people's throat. Because of that even as an atheist I am not bothered by his relgious references. Even with Bible references he managed to make the overall message universal so that non-Christians can relate to them just as much as Christians do. And that isn't necessarily a given. I listen to Prince as well and sometimes I feel his religious lyrics are overly preachy and specifically promote the Christian faith (and put it above everything else as "the truth") rather than having a universal message like MJ's songs. BTW, I also find it interesting how MJ and Prince's religious journeys went in the opposite direction. MJ started out as a strict JW in the 1980s, probably holding some dogmatic views at the time but after a while he became critical of those dogmatic views as he felt something wasn't right with them (and I think he was right) and left the church. He still was a Christian but not uncritically dogmatic and I like that (at least he does show some criticism of some Christian teachings on the rabbi tape). While Prince went into the other direction. Based on his lyrics he was always religious even in the 1980s but based on some of his actions and behaviour not really strict and dogmatic. He became a dogmatic religious person when he converted to being a JW in the lated 1990s (possibly the death of his son had to do with that). And as I heard that came with the typical ugly side of that: eg. he refused to play with gay artists, became overly preachy and judgemental etc. Though I have heard then he eased up on that later on.

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    Default Re: How would you describe Michael's faith and belief?

    He definitely had links with Freemasonary. The signs are there.....just Google it

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