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Thread: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

   
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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    Quote Originally Posted by analogue View Post
    Things obviously weren't all sunshine and roses during MJ's final days, but when I watch This Is It I see nothing questionable about his health there. He didn't look like he was at deaths door to me.
    Once again, he was using stimulants.

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothGangsta View Post
    Once again, he was using stimulants.
    You think MJ was the first artist to take stimulants!?

    I'd be surprised if you could name one artist who hasn't used something before performing. Heard the latest about Prince?

    Good god you do talk some nonsense.

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothGangsta View Post
    ^Facts and testimonies don't seem to matter, you are correct, anyone who didn't say MJ was amazing (I don't think anybody did even say that) is apparently exaggerating.
    "Facts and testimonies", my arse.

    As usual, you get to decide which testimonies are "facts" and which are not? I don't think so. Not for me.

    You conspiracy theorists must be eaten up inside now millions of people have visual testimony of how well MJ was doing, as well as conclusive proof, via an autopsy, of the fact Michael was doing well for a man of his age.

    Michael would still be with us today had CM done his job properly. Needing something to help you sleep, and then something to pick you up, doesn't make you incapable or on death's door, otherwise we would have no rock/pop stars alive.

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  5. #34
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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothMJ View Post
    "Facts and testimonies", my arse.

    As usual, you get to decide which testimonies are "facts" and which are not? I don't think so. Not for me.

    You conspiracy theorists must be eaten up inside now millions of people have visual testimony of how well MJ was doing, as well as conclusive proof, via an autopsy, of the fact Michael was doing well for a man of his age.

    Michael would still be with us today had CM done his job properly. Needing something to help you sleep, and then something to pick you up, doesn't make you incapable or on death's door, otherwise we would have no rock/pop stars alive.
    This is going nowhere. Also, not this crap again
    Last edited by SmoothGangsta; 18-04-2017 at 01:35 PM.

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothMJ View Post
    "Facts and testimonies", my arse.

    As usual, you get to decide which testimonies are "facts" and which are not? I don't think so. Not for me.

    You conspiracy theorists must be eaten up inside now millions of people have visual testimony of how well MJ was doing, as well as conclusive proof, via an autopsy, of the fact Michael was doing well for a man of his age.

    Michael would still be with us today had CM done his job properly. Needing something to help you sleep, and then something to pick you up, doesn't make you incapable or on death's door, otherwise we would have no rock/pop stars alive.

    I'm amazed at how some fans act when people disagree with them.
    There is no conspiracy theory that people in this thread are bringing up.
    The facts are that Michael needed a powerful drug, propofol, a drug only to be used in a hospital setting, just to sleep.
    The facts are that in addition to this, he had several other drugs within his system.
    The facts are that there are audio recordings of him clearly under the influence of drugs.
    The facts are that Kenny Ortega grew concerned for his condition due to his frail appearance and incoherence during the June 19th rehearsal.

    So was he ready to begin a 50 show comeback?
    No.

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    I do think KO was being slightly overboard though. Yes MJ was in a bad state on June 19th but if things were as bad as Kenny said, how was he able to have better rehearsals at the Staples Center. I think MJ with reduced Propofol could perform better. Kenny was thinking as well about his own reputation if the show was a failure. Why would he put so much pressure on MJ weeks before in early June? It wasn't about MJ's health then, it was about his attendance at rehearsal. MJ didn't like to rehearse for the History tour , for example. If MJ was a no show to rehearsals it would reflect badly on Oretga.
    Last edited by mjawb2009; 18-04-2017 at 06:21 PM.

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    Some of you are as bad as the tabloids. According to them he was 'washed up' in the mid 80's, he was 'dying' in the 90's, 'suicidal' in the early 2000's. Now according to some of you, he wasn't even capable of doing 50 shows in one location - despite the biggest motivation of all, his children.

    Michael proved the critics wrong for 30 odd years, and he would have proved smoothGangsta and the other naysayers wrong as well, given the chance.

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    Quote Originally Posted by mjawb2009 View Post
    I do think KO was being slightly overboard though. Yes MJ was in a bad state on June 19th but if things were as bad as Kenny said, how was he able to have better rehearsals at the Staples Center. I think MJ with reduced Propofol could perform better. Kenny was thinking as well about his own reputation if the show was a failure. Why would he put so much pressure on MJ weeks before in early June? It wasn't about MJ's health then, it was about his attendance at rehearsal. MJ didn't like to rehearse for the History tour , for example. If MJ was a no show to rehearsals it would reflect badly on Oretga.
    I don`t know why you blame Ortega. He was really the one who has MJ`s best interest in sense.

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    Quote Originally Posted by Annita View Post
    I don`t know why you blame Ortega. He was really the one who has MJ`s best interest in sense.
    I don't blame Ortega , I think he did think of MJ's needs. I do think that everybody had their own agenda aswell though. The pressure of the tour effected everybody.

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothGangsta View Post
    This is going nowhere. Also, not this crap again
    The very same crap by the very same users.

    I think we should not really be surprised anymore by what these fans say (on that matter).

    Also, it is really funny that one of the few sane voices in this community (like you) is constantly being called “naysayer”, or a “conspiracy theorist” (or whatever else) for just stating the obvious (but unpleasant) facts regarding MJ’s final days.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjawb2009 View Post
    I think MJ with reduced Propofol could perform better.
    There was no way for MJ to reduce the amount of Propofol that he was taking during the preparation for his ‘This Is It’ shows.

    Remember, for example, Debbie Rowe’s testimony (when she testified under oath as a witness) about MJ’s “very low pain tolerance”. Keep in mind that Propofol is used also as a strong painkiller, & MJ used that drug also for that purpose.

    Taking these powerful drugs leads to a vicious circle with fatal consequences. The more you take them, the more increased dosages you need (each new time).

    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothMJ View Post
    Now according to some of you, he wasn't even capable of doing 50 shows in one location - despite the biggest motivation of all, his children.
    According to some of us?

    MJ himself knew that very well (that he was not capable of so many shows). For that reason, he never gave his consent to those 50 'This Is It' shows.

    This also explains why everything related to the promotion of the ‘This Is It’ concerts (posters, official websites, etc) stated at that time categorically “10 shows”.

    Honestly, I can hardly keep a straight face while reading some of the comments here (about MJ being “alert, in control and fully capable of performing”, or “there is literally no evidence to support that, other than tabloid propaganda”, or “people have visual testimony of how well MJ was doing”, & so on).

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    ^Although in general I agree with you and appreciate your comments, MJ did indeed agree to something like 30 shows with the possibility of it being extended if AEG desired.

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    Guys that's enough now, no need for the attacks. Back on topic please.

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    IMO the entire problem with the convo is that both sides sometimes tend to go to far.
    For example, Michael obviously wasn't in perfect health, but he definitely wasn't about to drop dead either, and I'm sure that the true answer is somewhere in between.

    So while I think it's odd for someone to say Michael was as fit as a fiddle at the time I also side eye people that act as if he was falling apart at the seams too.

    The humble King/Emperor of all music and entertainment, AKA The Greatest entertainer of all time, The standard, and Your faves fave.

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    just to make clear Propofol is decreases consciousness - while that can be considered a sleep - that is not a true sleep state that allows you to reach all sleep levels.. that in itself has significant damaging effects when used for the purposes of sleep. physically and mentally damaging.. this also causes issues with memory. (Someone planning a concert set, that is the opposite of effectiveness) It also causes low blood pressure (stories of him being super cold) .. Without creating speculation of what MJ dealt with it can also cause seizures, blurred vision, hallucination, mental break down, depression, anxiety, irregular heart beat, loss of breath, ... list continues!


    PS. This 10 vs 50 dates thing brings in too much speculation to really get 100% truth.. We do know Michael originally agreed to 10 shows, and it's very plausible to say AEG convinced Michael to do 50 (telling him how crazy tickets sold, fans want to see him, beating Princes record - another world record).. Basically persuading him into agreeing. Now this does not speak for what Michael believed or did not believe he was capable of doing.. We cannot argue what Michael felt the time of signing the contract for 50 dates simply because all of the stories we hear about him saying "They are going to kill me.." etc, was regarding how he was being pushed during rehearsals etc. (Which at the time would not have started yet). I could guess while signing Michael was excited and felt great about himself knowing that he still created that type of frenzy, and knowing each show was set a couple days apart probably eased his mind (AT THE TIME)
    **He lives forever within us**

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    Default Re: What would you ask MJ based on his performances in This Is It

    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothGangsta View Post
    ^Although in general I agree with you and appreciate your comments, MJ did indeed agree to something like 30 shows with the possibility of it being extended if AEG desired.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOPV View Post
    PS. This 10 vs 50 dates thing brings in too much speculation to really get 100% truth.. We do know Michael originally agreed to 10 shows, and it's very plausible to say AEG convinced Michael to do 50 (telling him how crazy tickets sold, fans want to see him, beating Princes record - another world record).. Basically persuading him into agreeing. Now this does not speak for what Michael believed or did not believe he was capable of doing.. We cannot argue what Michael felt the time of signing the contract for 50 dates simply because all of the stories we hear about him saying "They are going to kill me.." etc, was regarding how he was being pushed during rehearsals etc. (Which at the time would not have started yet). I could guess while signing Michael was excited and felt great about himself knowing that he still created that type of frenzy, and knowing each show was set a couple days apart probably eased his mind (AT THE TIME)
    The only written contract that MJ signed referred explicitly to 10 ‘This Is It’ shows.

    MJ never gave his written consent for any additional dates (beyond that number of 10 shows).

    We should keep in mind also that AEG Live’s policy (about upcoming performances, projects, etc) is strictly based on written contracts, meaning any oral agreement is considered automatically invalid.

    Also, everything at that London ‘This Is It’ press conference (on March 5th) referred to 10 shows (Dermot O’Leary, merchandise, etc). So, when MJ himself started to talk to his fans, he just confirmed that number (of 10 shows), excluding at the same time categorically any possibility for further additional dates (“When I say this is it, it really means this is it!”).

    The additional 40 dates were added during the following days (after that London press conference) by AEG Live, & against MJ's wish.

    Besides, Randy Phillips (AEG Live CEO) sounded ambivalent (if not contradictory) at that time. For example, one day he said that he talked personally to MJ (on the phone) about adding further days (beyond 10), & according to him, MJ agreed on that. But, one of the following days, Phillips said that it was Dr. Tohme Tohme (MJ’s manager at that time) that he spoke to about that, rather than MJ.

    AEG Live would say anything; this does not necessarily mean that we have to believe them, especially in the absence of written consents.
    Last edited by mj_frenzy; 20-04-2017 at 11:51 AM.

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