MJ's Legacy! 8 Years On!

[Deleted member 9375]

Hard to believe we are now in the ninth year of a post-MJ world. Where has the time gone, and more importantly what kind of shape is his musical legacy in right now? Where is he -in your opinion- in terms of stature, in terms of a worldwide brand and where do you see him in the future/by the tenth anniversy? Will the estate/Sony do something big for it and after the first decade will we see projects that celebrate post-Quincy material?

The Halloween animated special sounds promising and it's another way to bring MJ to a new audience, Thriller 3D is around the corner. Mistakes have been made but they've done exceptionally well in terms of clearing the debt -3 year turnaround is incredible. They sold the ATV catalogue and personally, and surprisingly I think it was probably for the best -since he's no longer here- as it almost felt like a noose.

What's your take on it?

 

[Bad7]

I'd say his musical legacy is in fantastic shape. Despite everything his music is still selling, being streamed and played on radio. He's still doing extremely well in the US despite all the negative stories and music in general selling less. He has very steady catalogue sales there. Number Ones is doing very well worldwide.

I hope to see Dangerous be celebrated in some way at some stage. The Off The Wall documentary and re-release helped OTW see steady catalogue sales in the US. I'd love to see Dangerous follow in a similar vein.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

I'd say his musical legacy is in fantastic shape. Despite everything his music is still selling, being streamed and played on radio. He's still doing extremely well in the US despite all the negative stories and music in general selling less. He has very steady catalogue sales there. Number Ones is doing very well worldwide.

I hope to see Dangerous be celebrated in some way at some stage. The Off The Wall documentary and re-release helped OTW see steady catalogue sales in the US. I'd love to see Dangerous follow in a similar vein.

I always feel Number Ones came at the exact right time -2003- and reminded people how great the tunes were. Went to #1 in the UK and #6 on Billboards R&B album charts, #13 on Pop charts. It's a shame that the video for One More Chance was never completed for it -for obvious reasons- but I also loved The One special which also had a DVD release which surprisingly cut a section featuring The Way You Make Me Feel which was part of the TV airing. Then there was Number Ones DVD also.

There was actually a consistent amount of releases in the Noughties with The Ultimate Collection including Dangerous Tour Bucharest the following year and the Japanese version came with 5 extra tracks. Also a re-release of Moonwalker.

2005 saw the release of The Essential which hit the #2 spot in the UK. They would release a limited edition of it in 2008 with a 3rd disc and it became a posthumous #1 in Australia, Finland, Ireland, UK and Mexico and hitting the top-5 in many countries in 2009.

2006 came Visonary The Video Singles; 15 of the DualDisc singles hit the #1 spot in Spain with the other 5 singles peaking at #2.

2008 was a great year with MJ looking healthy and back in the studio. Thriller 25 featuring re-worked Thriller hits with Will-I-am, Alon, Kanye and Fergie which sort of set a new trend for MJ. In America some stores stocked their own exclusive editions; Best Buy: Thriller 1982 Def Remix, Circuit City: WBSS 1982 Dance Mix, Independent Music Stores: Billie Jean 1982 Radio Edit Remix and Target: Billie Jean 1982 Club Remix, while Amazon and ITunes -USA only- included Billie Jean Underground Mix and Thrille Instrumental. Walmart did a Deluxe fan pack packaging Thriller 25 and the Number Ones DVD together. It debuted at #2 on the Billboard albums chart. #1 on the Billboard Pop & R&B/Hip Hop Catalogue albums chart 11 and 16 weeks respectively and peaked at #3 in the UK. Posthumously it made #1 Czech Republic, Mexico, Portugal and Switzerland.

2008 also saw my personal favourite Hits Collection 'King Of Pop! Released to celebrate MJ's 50th. Peaked at #3 in the UK matching Thriller25 in same year. Love the 3-Disc UK Deluxe Edition and also the 3-Disc French Fan Selection.

The Collection was released in 2009; 5-album box set which strangely omitted HIStory and Blood On The Dance Floor. This box set did ok in some parts of Europe; within the top-5 in a few places.

Motown also released The Stripped Mixes/ The Motown 50 Mixes and the beautiful Hello World: The Complete Motown Solo Collection.


Will have to get into all of the posthumous projects and discuss their impact and what they've done in terms of bringing new fans on board and old fans back.

 

[Tony R]

I remember writing in a piece when MJ died that I knew that one day the world would come round to loving Michael Jackson again and I knew it would take one of two things; a glorious comeback show or his death. For a while it looked like it would be the former but it was not to be.

And I feel I was right, apart from the very occassional obvious joke (that all famous people get), I think MJ is back being as highly thought of as in his peak, and back up there with Beatles & Elvis as most influential & important.

You see Michael Jackson paid tribute to/imitated more that any other artist on talent & reality shows. Kids know his music. Like Respect says, he's not a nostalgia act, he's an important piece of music history that excites people when they discover (or re-discover) him.

Ironically, aside from on here, I barely hear any negative stuff. The Robson allegations for example I don't think I'd know anything about if it wasn't for here or in my newsfeed.

Number Ones (my least favourite compliation!) is rarely out the charts and you can see in Respect's iTunes stats he's barely out the Top 25.

So yeah, I'd say he's in great shape. The 'Michael' travesty and stupid Pitbull remix & free chalk won't do anything to harm that and that's why people should calmdown about it.

The only thing I'd like now is more work to bring his '90s material to people's minds. Especially Ghosts. That's why I'm hoping that if done right the Halloween special may help, if it includes all his 'horror' genre songs.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

Great feedback guys. It's incredible that despite the nonesense his music is still as relevant as ever. It's awesome that his music is always at the top end of streaming charts/numbers and he's always somewhere on Billboard.

Number One's is a massive seller, not my favourite either but ideal for a very broad market, perfect for young and old, casuals and impulse buying. I can't remember the exact number but it's shifted a good few million at this point.

By the time we reach the 10th anniversary there is still a massive amount of material that they didn't touch. The estate/Sony are in an incredible position.

Here's something I want to put to you: Is there any project that would be damaging at this point -many fans say a HIStory Tour theatrical run would backfire- but even if something caused a bit of a storm would it actually work in a positive way? He's a person of such fascination for people, he seems to take up an awful lot of time in the heads of people who just don't like or get him, and in the Internet/YouTube age everyone desperately wants to have their say. Even if a project is heavily criticised does it all work in his favour ultimately?

Also, what's off limits in your view? Where can the estate/Sony absolutely NOT go? What's a complete no-go area in your view?

 

[Tony R]

here's something i want to put to you: Is there any project that would be damaging at this point

michael 2 - the return

 

[Deleted member 9375]

michael 2 - the return

So the argument that "Why are you moaning? If you don't like it don't buy it! This is to bring in new younger generation fans!" Doesn't work for a second selection of Frank Cascio's finest?!

They messed up big time with that! Have they made up for it since?

 

[Tony R]

So the argument that "Why are you moaning? If you don't like it don't buy it! This is to bring in new younger generation fans!" Doesn't work for a second selection of Frank Cascio's finest?!

They messed up big time with that! Have they made up for it since?

Yeah, but just like Robson etc..no-one knows/cares outside of fan community.

In terms of what shouldn't they do. I still say HIStory tour at cinemas, but they wouldn't do that anyway I think. I know I have a bee in my metaphorical bonnet* about lip-syncing, but I shudder at what reviews may say. It does NOT show him in his finest light.



* Tony would like to state that he no longer wears bonnets.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

Yeah, but just like Robson etc..no-one knows/cares outside of fan community.

In terms of what shouldn't they do. I still say HIStory tour at cinemas, but they wouldn't do that anyway I think. I know I have a bee in my metaphorical bonnet* about lip-syncing, but I shudder at what reviews may say. It does NOT show him in his finest light.



* Tony would like to state that he no longer wears bonnets.

I wouldn't be against a HIStory Tour as part of a box set type of release and agree it wouldn't be wise to release it in theatres for fear of a massive backlash from just about every music magazine, although most of those rip him apart anyway. I remember reading the review for Bad25 in Q magazine at the time and the condescending tone making a reference to a ladyboy. I didn't read that type of thing for Prince in any of the magazines, although Q did call him weird. Prince was due to sign a publishing deal with universal worth 31 million dollars which fell through recently. His estate have a real job on their hands!

Despite the snobbery, despite the looking down their noses, MJ's legacy has exceeded expectations surely. Luckely his commercial appeal never faded and his brand is big enough to be in a position to bypass the cynics and snotty music press. He does as well as The Beatles and Elvis, better overall and this will sustain and grow.

 

[SmoothMJ]

No one in history - and I mean NO ONE - could have been as successful as MJ, before and after his death, with the decades long attack and ridicule by the media.

It is testament to his unrivalled talent that he was, and continues to be, so revered by millions of people across the world.

Although we have lost some major stars since MJ left us, the outpouring of grief and his post death sales put every one of those major stars in the shade. He really was, and is, on another level.

I have said this before, but I won't apologise for saying it again;

The likes of The Beatles and Elvis were/are successful BECAUSE of the media they receive.

Michael Joseph Jackson was/is successful IN SPITE of the media!

He really is the GOAT.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

^^Great point on the whole media thing!

I really hope the Estate can pay certain people who worked with MJ once and for all and have full control over all material and tie up all the loose ends, Especially by the time the 10th anniversary rolls around. Pay the Jacksons, pay Quincy, just clear away all of this red tape and move towards creating a few massive projects that deserve some attention. I would also like them to own the Pepsi adverts outright with any outtake footage; maybe team up with them again for a Victory Tour release with a massive advertising campaign. They will in all probability re-sign with Sony and I can't really imagine MJ partnering with anyone else.

 

[Bad7]

Number One's is a massive seller, not my favourite either but ideal for a very broad market, perfect for young and old, casuals and impulse buying. I can't remember the exact number but it's shifted a good few million at this point.

Probably in excess of 11 million.

 

[Scream]

His musical legacy is secure. Just like The Beatles or Bowie, his music finds new audiences every day.
What surprises me more is how the feeling towards Michael Jackson the man has changed. When I was in High School (even before the 2005 trial) if you asked people what they thought of Michael Jackson, a large percentage would tell you "he's a pedophile, he touches kids etc". But in my experience talking to the current generation, that feeling is no where near as prominent as it was.

Hopefully proving that as much as the press tried to tarnish his image, they won't shape his legacy.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

I do worry what effect the Robson debacle will have on MJs legacy if it goes to trial. I know it's hardly been reported on a large scale so far, and unless you regularly frequent MJ fansites or websites like Radar Online or Daily Fail, then you are unlikely to have even heard of it at all. But IF Robson does get a trial, I really think that will change and the media will be even more biased and one sided in their reporting than they were when MJ was alive.

I know MJ has been through this before and there will always be those who doubt his innocence, but I do think everytime a highly publicised allegation comes out, it chips away at his good name. I think a lot of people believed MJ was innocent in 93, then the settlement happened and it did some serious damage. It started to become a distant memory and then 2003 happened and it did even more damage. His death was like a fresh start for the general public and their relationship with MJ, but then Robson has tainted that. So far the impact has been negligible, certainly financially for the estate, but I don't think MJs reputation has escaped unscathed and that will certainly only get worse should a trial happen.

Hopefully this will be thrown out, and this whole disease of an accusation against him since 93 is now coming to an end. If Jordy Chandler ever does come out at some point and tells the truth it would go a long way towards ending this never ending nonsense.

I wonder at this point do most people know where they stand; either believe he was innocent or believe he did something?

I think overall support for him is coming back. Great to see Thriller in the latest trailer for the Netflix series Stranger Things which is massive. And the Halloween special on a major Amercain TV network are all good signs.

People will be perched for Thiller 3D!

 

[Antwort]

No one in history - and I mean NO ONE - could have been as successful as MJ, before and after his death, with the decades long attack and ridicule by the media.

It is testament to his unrivalled talent that he was, and continues to be, so revered by millions of people across the world.

Although we have lost some major stars since MJ left us, the outpouring of grief and his post death sales put every one of those major stars in the shade. He really was, and is, on another level.

I have said this before, but I won't apologise for saying it again;

The likes of The Beatles and Elvis were/are successful BECAUSE of the media they receive.

Michael Joseph Jackson was/is successful IN SPITE of the media!

He really is the GOAT.

Some of the truest words ever spoken. They beg repeating over and over again, not just once or twice.

Blessings to you for tellin' the truth.

 

[SmoothMJ]

It is something I like to point out now and again.

When you realise he achieved so much, whilst having to suffer more than any other artist I can think off, it makes you appreciate him even more.

We were lucky to have been alive at the same time as him. They'll never be another.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

No one in history - and I mean NO ONE - could have been as successful as MJ, before and after his death, with the decades long attack and ridicule by the media.

It is testament to his unrivalled talent that he was, and continues to be, so revered by millions of people across the world.

Although we have lost some major stars since MJ left us, the outpouring of grief and his post death sales put every one of those major stars in the shade. He really was, and is, on another level.

I have said this before, but I won't apologise for saying it again;

The likes of The Beatles and Elvis were/are successful BECAUSE of the media they receive.

Michael Joseph Jackson was/is successful IN SPITE of the media!

He really is the GOAT.

This is an A+ comment right here!
Say it one more time for the people in the back!:lol:

 

[Deleted member 9375]

Will 'Stranger Things turn many people onto MJ's music? Its one of Netflix's biggest shows and the trailer also says "this Halloween" which ties-in nicely with the Halloween special. Follow that with Thriller3D -presume that will be happening- and that's a pretty good strategy. Also, could Thriller -the song- feature on the soundtrack album to season 2?

Reaction to the trailer has been phenomenal. Everyone is loving it and some fans of the show are saying Thriller is the perfect song choice.

 

[JanetJackson]

Not to sound pessimistic, but I don't really think too many people will get turned on to Michael from the trailer. Everybody knows the song regardless, I don't think it'll inspire anyone to dig into his music further.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

His musical legacy is secure. Just like The Beatles or Bowie, his music finds new audiences every day.
What surprises me more is how the feeling towards Michael Jackson the man has changed. When I was in High School (even before the 2005 trial) if you asked people what they thought of Michael Jackson, a large percentage would tell you "he's a pedophile, he touches kids etc". But in my experience talking to the current generation, that feeling is no where near as prominent as it was.

Hopefully proving that as much as the press tried to tarnish his image, they won't shape his legacy.

I was 13 when all of that first started in '93, and I felt an immediately intense level of shame from that point forward, about enjoying his music. I guess you could say I was a "closeted MJ fan" for more than a decade. Even after the 2005 verdict, I still ran into people who often looked at me funny, when I brought Michael up in conversation. The mainstream press (especially in the USA) did a horrible yet masterful job of wrecking his entire reputation...yet to be fair, Michael was partially at fault for trusting the wrong people. I remember something Katherine recalled in one interview, telling her son "I can see myself in you, but I don't want you to be like me." She explained that she often felt she trusted people too easily.

 

[HIStoric]

I was 13 when all of that first started in '93, and I felt an immediately intense level of shame from that point forward, about enjoying his music. I guess you could say I was a "closeted MJ fan" for more than a decade. Even after the 2005 verdict, I still ran into people who often looked at me funny, when I brought Michael up in conversation.

I can identify with this. I became a fan in 2008 but I kept my enjoyment of him and his music on the down-low given his reputation at the time. My generation didn't grow up with the chart-topping Michael Jackson many of you did, we grew up exposed to the Michael Jackson who dangled children off balconies, who was being accused of child molestation and whose name was essentially a punchline. I mean, my friends first memory of the man was the Blanket incident, and while I can't remember my first memory in regards to Michael I knew that he was widely considered a weirdo.

I didn't see him as a weirdo once I started listening to the music and looked up the Wikipedia article on the allegations of course, but how many pre-teens did that then? It wasn't until he died and I saw a wider social acceptance of him that I was comfortable with proclaiming my love for him.

I'm so glad that children today are able to grow up seeing Michael in a far more compassionate and deserving light.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

Not to sound pessimistic, but I don't really think too many people will get turned on to Michael from the trailer. Everybody knows the song regardless, I don't think it'll inspire anyone to dig into his music further.

It's a fair point and a valid one. I suppose I'm thinking in terms of how big the show is and reaching a wider audience of young people in tow with the animated Halloween special and then at some point Thriller 3D. On a subliminal level if you hear or see something that peaks your interest or causes you to feel a certain way it grabs you eventually. I can imagine a few people atleast who've seen the Stranger Things trailer and their singing or humming Thriller themselves.

 

[Scream]

I was 13 when all of that first started in '93, and I felt an immediately intense level of shame from that point forward, about enjoying his music. I guess you could say I was a "closeted MJ fan" for more than a decade. Even after the 2005 verdict, I still ran into people who often looked at me funny, when I brought Michael up in conversation. The mainstream press (especially in the USA) did a horrible yet masterful job of wrecking his entire reputation...yet to be fair, Michael was partially at fault for trusting the wrong people. I remember something Katherine recalled in one interview, telling her son "I can see myself in you, but I don't want you to be like me." She explained that she often felt she trusted people too easily.

I know those feels.
I became a fan in about '96 and knew nothing about the '93 allegations (I was only 6). Whenever I would bring Michael up to my Dad or anyone else, they would always say something derogatory towards him and I never really understood why. Then as I got older I learnt a bit about the allegations, but just kinda brushed it off. From then on I kinda hid my fandom though because the mere mention of his name in a positive light could get you abuse. I remember buying the Number Ones album in '03 and having to hide it in my bag at School which seems stupid looking back.

Then once the '05 allegations hit it got so much worse. Every day the Tabloids were plastered with rubbish like "*****'S SECRET SEX DUNGEON" and other such nonsense. Even as a fan and someone who always maintained his innocence, it was hard not to get swept up in it all. You began to feel a slight twinge of "but what if he really is guilty?". I remember asking my Dad who just gave the classic "No smoke without fire" answer.

Then of course he was found not guilty and I had the best night sleep in weeks, thinking, that he'd been vindicated and we could all move on from this. Unfortunately we never really did.

 

[MJ7801]

Hmmm, I wonder. I'm hoping that people will hear it and say "I haven't heard that in a while, I should throw on some MJ".
Let's see if we get any of those reports on music streams etc. If there's a heightened amount of streaming Thriller, as it's not around Halloween, maybe that would have something to do with it.