Re-Doing The Invincible Era

PopOfKing

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First let me say as a MJ fan I like and want all the tracks possible and do like every released track (not including the bogus Cascio abominations) on MJ BUT everytime I listen to "Invincible" my mind drifts to a "what might have been" scenario. The project was a missed and/or botched opportunity even without the record company problems IMO

This is how I think it should have gone. I think the album was too long, was sequenced-wrongly for an MJ album and promoted woefully.

Firstly of the 16 tracks I decided to cut 5 tracks. Why?

1. Heaven Can Wait- It's great but too similar to "Break Of Dawn" so save this for the next album
2. 2000 Watts- Too different for MJ and the general public
3. Privacy- Just doesn't fit. Would've fit with the "History"/"BOTDF" material
4. You Are My Life- Too similar to "Speechless"
5. Don't Walk Away- Too similar in feel to "Speechless", "Break Of Dawn" and "Whatever Happens"

The tracklist:

1. Unbreakable
2. Invincible
3. You Rock My World
4. Butterflies
5. Cry
6. Heartbreaker
7. Break Of Dawn
8. Whatever Happens
9. Threatened
10. Speechless
11. The Lost Children

Singles in order:

1. You Rock My World
2. Unbreakable
3. Butterflies
4. Cry
5. Break Of Dawn

Your thoughts?
 
I've always thought that Cry doesn't really fit at all on Invincible, and as much as I like Threatened it is a bit random of an album closer.
 
Whatever Happens should have been a single!!
You've got MJ coming back with a smart well crafted song, plus it features Santana (shout out to Teddy Riley). At the time Santana was riding his own massive wave of popularity and he's a genius. That song if promoted properly with a decent short film featuring Michael, would have been a huge radio hit next to YRMW.
 
Honestly, the entire album track listing needs to be overhauled. Several of the cutting room floor tracks (Another Day, Beautiful Girl, The Way You Love Me), even in their unfinished state, are superior to several of the songs that made the cut.
 
there are so many factors to consider when it comes to Invincible.. ie. why we keep having Invincible thread after Invincible thread trying to figure the equation out.. Simply put, the album was not put together with all the strongest songs that were actually worked on, the flow of album (track order), and support around the whole thing was not well put together... That said there are several great tracks on the album, I believe Michael did not believe in himself enough to take charge the way he should have.. artistically!! and the battle between a demanding MJ and a record label that was pretty much over it did not mesh well.
 
there are so many factors to consider when it comes to Invincible.. ie. why we keep having Invincible thread after Invincible thread trying to figure the equation out.. Simply put, the album was not put together with all the strongest songs that were actually worked on, the flow of album (track order), and support around the whole thing was not well put together... That said there are several great tracks on the album, I believe Michael did not believe in himself enough to take charge the way he should have.. artistically!! and the battle between a demanding MJ and a record label that was pretty much over it did not mesh well.
...in a nutshell ?
 
1. Unbreakable
2. Invincible (Edit out Fats’ rap section)
3. Break of Dawn
4. You Rock My World (Edit out the Chris Tucker/Michael intro)
5. Butterflies
6. Hollywood Tonight
7. You Are My Life
8. 2000 Watts
9. Heaven Can Wait
10. We’ve Had Enough
11. Don’t Walk Away
12. Whatever Happens
13. Speechless


Invincible Tour (20 shows across North America, Europe, Japan, and Australia)

Unbreakable
Scream/They Don't Care About Us
Human Nature
Smooth Criminal
You Rock My World
Rock With You/Off The Wall/Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough
Butterflies
Speechless
I Just Can't Stop Loving You
Invincible
Black Or White
Whatever Happens
Beat It
Thriller
Earth Song
You Are Not Alone
Dangerous
Billie Jean
We’ve Had Enough
Will You Be There
Man In The Mirror


SINGLES
-Unbreakable (with Privacy as a b-side)


-You Rock My World (with Shout as a b-side)


-Butterflies (with Heartbreaker as a b-side)


-Whatever Happens (with Blue Gangsta as a b-side)

 
I can't support any idea about Invicible if it include The Lost Children still......

..sweet song, but that shit makes me cringe


Yes. I won't be popular for saying it here but it's bloody awful.
Should have been axed along with Cry, Privacy, Don't Walk Away, You Are My Life, and speechless.


It's ok to record that for your own archive but to put it on a commercially released album is madness. The world was waiting for the next Michael Jackson album. there was eager anticipation. Can you imagine any other global megastar putting something similar on their album in 2001? Madonna had recently released 'Music' - contemporary mass-market music. In 2002 JT released Justified. THAT is what an MJ album should have sounded like in 2001. With Vince MJ showed he had completely lost touch with the music scene.
 
Last edited:
CrazyVegasMJ;4202372 said:
I can't support any idea about Invicible if it include The Lost Children still
MJTruth;4202491 said:
Yes. I won't be popular for saying it here but it's bloody awful.
It's ok to record that for your own archive but to put it on a commercially released album is madness. The world was waiting for the next Michael Jackson album. there was eager anticipation. Can you imagine any other global megastar putting something similar on their album in 2001? Madonna had recently released 'Music' - contemporary mass-market music. In 2002 JT released Justified. THAT is what an MJ album should have sounded like in 2001. With Vince MJ showed he had completely lost touch with the music scene.
“What is the definition of cool? Michael Jackson made “Heal the World.” He could do that because he was golden. He was himself. He didn’t have to try to be cool. Think about a lot of your favorite bands or groups. Would they make a song called “Heal the World”? No, because they are too concerned about their leather jackets. Ironically, they are probably wearing leather jackets because of Michael Jackson.”

- Kanye West, XXL Magazine, October 2010
 
First rename the album to Unbreakable and change the album cover.

1. Unbreakable
2. Another Day
3. Hollywood Tonight
4. Break of Dawn
5. Butterflies
6. You Rock My World
7. Whatever Happens
8. Speechless
9. Beautiful Girl
10. Threatened

This album has caused a lot of discussion. However, i have accepted it for what it is now. It has some great songs, however there is no good flow, too many songs on it, too many similar songs. The way i have arranged the album, there is a better flow and a good balance between ballads and uptempo songs.
 
1. Unbreakable
2. Hollywood Tonight
3. Invincible
4. Don't Walk Away
5. 2,000 Watts
6. You Rock My World
7. Speechless
8. The Lost Children
9. Xscape
10. Whatever Happens
11. Threatened
12. We've Had Enough
 
HIStoric;4202492 said:
“What is the definition of cool? Michael Jackson made “Heal the World.” He could do that because he was golden. He was himself. He didn’t have to try to be cool. Think about a lot of your favorite bands or groups. Would they make a song called “Heal the World”? No, because they are too concerned about their leather jackets. Ironically, they are probably wearing leather jackets because of Michael Jackson.”

- Kanye West, XXL Magazine, October 2010


HTW was a low point on the Dangerous album and the song's limited success proves it. When the album was released (pre-allegations) MJ was at the top of the game. The biggest record deal in history. He could afford to have a song like that on his album without it hurting his career momentum. By Vince MJ's career had lost momentum, to many people thought his glory days were too far behind him and he needed to prove himself. He needed a smash hit album. The last thing he needed was an over-stuffed album with poor song choice. Like I said, Justified was how MJ's album should have sounded. JT totally jacked MJ's style from the clothing to the dancing to the sound - he sounded like MJ for the 21st century. It's sad that 5 of the songs on Justified were actually written by Pharell for MJ and COULD have been included on Vince if only things had worked out. Instead they were offered to JT. Imagine what it would have sounded like to hear MJ sing those songs with Pharell's production. I guarantee if Vince had sounded like Justified we wouldn't have these constant threads about it and MJ's career would have seen a massive resurgence. We wouldn't have seen the embarrassing one-sided feud between MJ and Sony being played out in the press. Instead they released YRMW which had modest success and then Cry which was a terrible second single, then the album died.
 
HTW was a low point on the Dangerous album and the song's limited success proves it.

Got to #2 in the UK, better than most other Dangerous singles. Or singles in his career, for that matter.
 
You guys are crazy! WTF??


Are we on the MJ fan site forum or on the MJ haters site forum?
 
When it comes to songs like Heal The World, and The Lost Children, I appreciate the fact that MJ wasn't afraid to be ''uncool'' - He just made music that he was passionate about
 
Yes. I won't be popular for saying it here but it's bloody awful.
Should have been axed along with Cry, Privacy, Don't Walk Away, You Are My Life, and speechless.


It's ok to record that for your own archive but to put it on a commercially released album is madness. The world was waiting for the next Michael Jackson album. there was eager anticipation. Can you imagine any other global megastar putting something similar on their album in 2001? Madonna had recently released 'Music' - contemporary mass-market music. In 2002 JT released Justified. THAT is what an MJ album should have sounded like in 2001. With Vince MJ showed he had completely lost touch with the music scene.
All of this. Every word.
 
^^Agreed. Invincible is the least Michael sounding record and my least favorite one but I admire his guts and creativity to do something different on each album and not ripping himself off. JT's debut album sounded like songs Michael recorded in the past, how ridiculous is asking him to not challenge himself.

There were genuine gems on the album but many songs that didn't make it to the track list were better than the ones who made it, IMO. A Place With No Name, Another Day, We've Had Enough, Escape/Xscape should have been on Invincible.
 
Cry was a horrible choice for a single. Because it was written by R.Kelly, I think that the people at Sony was hoping to repeat the success of You Are Not Alone. I don't think Cry is a bad song, but it should have never been a single.
 
Yes, and moreover, the Invicible album contains so many great songs !
 
^^Agreed. Invincible is the least Michael sounding record and my least favorite one but I admire his guts and creativity to do something different on each album and not ripping himself off. JT's debut album sounded like songs Michael recorded in the past, how ridiculous is asking him to not challenge himself.

There were genuine gems on the album but many songs that didn't make it to the track list were better than the ones who made it, IMO. A Place With No Name, Another Day, We've Had Enough, Escape/Xscape should have been on Invincible.

JTs album sounded like classic mj with a modern twist and that's exactly what mj needed at that time.
 
^None of his albums sound similar to one another, why would you think he'd rehash himself? That's the reason why Michael rejected Pharrell's tracks and ended up in JT's album.
 
All of MJ's album from Off The Wall to Blood On The Dance Floor (Remixed songs not included) all sounded different, but still sounded like Michael Jackson. With some exceptions, Invincible didn't sound like a Michael Jackson album to me
 
All of MJ's album from Off The Wall to Blood On The Dance Floor (Remixed songs not included) all sounded different, but still sounded like Michael Jackson. With some exceptions, Invincible didn't sound like a Michael Jackson album to me

I agree with you. Although the albums were all different and in my opinion were all really fantastic, Invincible didn't really stand in line with the rest of his work.
 
IMO Invincible is an underrated album, considered by some fans and the general public. I didnt listen to invincible for years. Listening to it recently, it grew on me. Mj wanted to do something different musically and I think he did that. Several things led to it's less than optimal success, barely on Mjs part. When I really listened to the album again, I enjoyed it as much as his earlier work. You can tell it has that late 90s/early 00s sound. It was not perfect, but it still has it's gems. It's unfortunate that his last album is overlooked by so many. I agree that some tracks from escape could have made the cut but I accept his last album for what it was, a missed opportunity due to several circumstances out of Mjs control.
 
IMO Invincible is an underrated album, considered by some fans and the general public. I didnt listen to invincible for years. Listening to it recently, it grew on me. Mj wanted to do something different musically and I think he did that. Several things led to it's less than optimal success, barely on Mjs part. When I really listened to the album again, I enjoyed it as much as his earlier work. You can tell it has that late 90s/early 00s sound. It was not perfect, but it still has it's gems. It's unfortunate that his last album is overlooked by so many. I agree that some tracks from escape could have made the cut but I accept his last album for what it was, a missed opportunity due to several circumstances out of Mjs control.

Yes, I really agree with that sentiment. It was not a perfect album but it was enjoyable. I think part of the reason why this album gets brought up a lot is because it became his last album. If MJ had released 2 or 3 more albums after Invincible it really believe that it wouldn't nearly be so divisive [within the fan community]. It would kinda be like "Okay he tried something different with this one, on to the next one" but because the emphasis is on this being his last full solo album (and to some degree the commotion behind making this album) it leaved a sour taste in some people's mouths. That's what I think.

At the end of the day I still listen to songs like, Butterflies, Whatever happens, Threatened, Speechless, Break Of Dawn etc etc. And that's not taking songs like, Hollywood Tonight, We've Had Enough, Fall Again, Place With No name, Beautiful Girl & Escape that didn't make the final cut into account. I think it's safe to say that he made some amazing songs during the Invincible era.
 
Two things that's guaranteed to get a discussion going. Invincible and the HIStory Tour
 
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