Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 66

Thread: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

   
  1. #1
    Points: 23,518, Level: 94
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 832
    Overall activity: 31.0%
    Achievements:
    Three Friends10000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    4,594
    Points
    23,518
    Level
    94
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 31 Times in 19 Posts

    Default Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    I'm sure I'm not the only fan who feels somewhat let down each time the Estate announces a new project. I don't mean to sound pessimistic or ungrateful but as fans of one of the biggest artists ever it's sad that we have to relay on leaks for "new" material. I've been a MJ fan since Earth Song but the releases after MJ's passing (bar Bad 25 and Xscape) have been pretty bland. It used to be really exciting whenever there was rumours of a new project or something in the works, now, i just find my enthusiasm for releases drained slightly. I'll always be a fan but just in terms of official new stuff it's not looking good, well, in my opinion anyway.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Thriller_MJ For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Points: 13,570, Level: 75
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 80
    Overall activity: 49.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsCreated Blog entryTagger Second ClassVeteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    A, A
    Posts
    2,655
    Points
    13,570
    Level
    75
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    476
    Thanked 2,011 Times in 715 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    All I can say is that I share your opinion. I feel exactly the same.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to IMWhizzle For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Points: 1,992, Level: 26
    Level completed: 92%, Points required for next Level: 8
    Overall activity: 33.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    22
    Points
    1,992
    Level
    26
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    I don't have faith anymore with the Estate. I don't hope anymore until an official announcements. We were very disappointed too often.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Joce For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Points: 23,518, Level: 94
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 832
    Overall activity: 31.0%
    Achievements:
    Three Friends10000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    4,594
    Points
    23,518
    Level
    94
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 31 Times in 19 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    It just seems like they are deserting "real" (i use that term loosely) fans and focusing more on the general consumer who doesn't know much about MJ's music to hook them in and make them a fan and buy all the albums.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Thriller_MJ For This Useful Post:


  9. #5
    Points: 2,289, Level: 28
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 11
    Overall activity: 11.0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    667
    Points
    2,289
    Level
    28
    Thanks
    274
    Thanked 405 Times in 189 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    Since Michael's passing, we got 2 albums worth of new material. Sure one of them had 3 fake songs but still the point stands. We also got This Is It rehearsals, Bad 25 re-issue which had 6 new songs, a concert and a documentary. Also Off The Wall documentary.

    It's quite unreasonable to expect the Estate to release albums of new songs every 2-3 years when MJ himself liked to wait 4-5 years between albums. We got 2 studio albums in the 80s, 2 studio albums in the 90s and just 1 in the 00s. So far in this decade, we have got 2 albums of new material which is on par with what MJ did in his lifetime. The Estate are thinking long term. There isn't an infinite amount of material left and MJ isn't here to record new stuff anymore so the Estate are right to not go with the unreasonable demands of some MJ fans and take their time between album releases. I'm sure the Estate want to still have unreleased material left to release 20-30 years from now so they can't release everything within the first decade of MJ's passing. Some fans need to be patient and understand it's all part of a long term plan to keep growing MJ's legacy.
    Last edited by Blue Criminal; 14-09-2017 at 04:03 AM.

  10. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Blue Criminal For This Useful Post:


  11. #6
    Points: 5,632, Level: 48
    Level completed: 41%, Points required for next Level: 118
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    347
    Points
    5,632
    Level
    48
    Thanks
    83
    Thanked 290 Times in 84 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    What I find disappointing is the care taken. The estate like to say 'the quality goes in before the name goes on'. But really? ... there is and album in MJ's catalogue with 3 songs on there that aren't even him!! There's an off the wall release that came with a stick of chalk. A Halloween album that doesn't even include 'Is it Scary'. There are myriad other mistakes to my mind including the choices of single releases - the lacklustre videos, the beyond stupid hologram of 'MJ'. I could care less how often we got the releases as long as they weren't so careless. These guys have access to thousands of hours of video that MJ filmed in his lifetime, endless takes of songs for deluxe editions without dipping into unknown songs, they have actual 3D model of MJ's face (yet choose not to use it for hologram?). I could go on but who has the time.

    Honestly - just get a panel of fans together who have some decent knowledge and ideas of MJ to come up with cool releases. Release compilations etc for public consumption of course because legacy building is important, but at the same time - make FAN releases for the hardcores. Trying to create releases that appeal to the general public as well as fans who already have all this stuff just doesn't work. Xscape worked to some degree because it covered both audiences.

    Anywho .. my two cents!

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to arnspecs For This Useful Post:


  13. #7
    Points: 21,000, Level: 91
    Level completed: 30%, Points required for next Level: 350
    Overall activity: 53.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,211
    Points
    21,000
    Level
    91
    Thanks
    6,929
    Thanked 4,371 Times in 1,184 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    I don`t know why you expect unreleased songs when the Estate gave a clear message it will not happen in the near future. I understand this strategy.

  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Annita For This Useful Post:


  15. #8
    Points: 18,403, Level: 86
    Level completed: 11%, Points required for next Level: 447
    Overall activity: 63.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Galactus123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    4,100
    Points
    18,403
    Level
    86
    Thanks
    2,144
    Thanked 2,450 Times in 1,208 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    I feel a bit let down but I'm sure good releases will come at some point. Just don't buy the releases that look bad. I'm excited to see Thriller in HD and I hope there will be a new concert release. At some point there will.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Galactus123 For This Useful Post:


  17. #9
    Points: 14,354, Level: 77
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 96
    Overall activity: 21.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    HIStoric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    3,627
    Points
    14,354
    Level
    77
    Thanks
    3,882
    Thanked 3,996 Times in 1,642 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Criminal View Post
    Since Michael's passing, we got 2 albums worth of new material. Sure one of them had 3 fake songs but still the point stands. We also got This Is It rehearsals, Bad 25 re-issue which had 6 new songs, a concert and a documentary. Also Off The Wall documentary.

    It's quite unreasonable to expect the Estate to release albums of new songs every 2-3 years when MJ himself liked to wait 4-5 years between albums. We got 2 studio albums in the 80s, 2 studio albums in the 90s and just 1 in the 00s. So far in this decade, we have got 2 albums of new material which is on par with what MJ did in his lifetime. The Estate are thinking long term. There isn't an infinite amount of material left and MJ isn't here to record new stuff anymore so the Estate are right to not go with the unreasonable demands of some MJ and take their time between album releases. I'm sure the Estate want to still have unreleased material left to release 20-30 years from now so they can't release everything within the first decade of MJ's passing. Some fans need to be patient and understand it's all part of a long term plan to keep growing MJ's legacy.
    How dare you bring common sense into this

  18. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to HIStoric For This Useful Post:


  19. #10
    Points: 14,354, Level: 77
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 96
    Overall activity: 21.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    HIStoric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    3,627
    Points
    14,354
    Level
    77
    Thanks
    3,882
    Thanked 3,996 Times in 1,642 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    Quote Originally Posted by arnspecs View Post
    A Halloween album that doesn't even include 'Is it Scary'.
    Go read the press release, its states that it's a collection of his "all-time most electrifying and danceable tracks". Outside of the chorus, Is It Scary isn't really danceable and thus wasn't included. Look at the other tracks and they're easy to dance to

    Quote Originally Posted by arnspecs View Post
    These guys have access to thousands of hours of video that MJ filmed in his lifetime, endless takes of songs for deluxe editions without dipping into unknown songs, they have actual 3D model of MJ's face (yet choose not to use it for hologram?). I could go on but who has the time.
    There's actually a myriad of technical reasons as to why they do not immediately utilise the digital model made of Michael's face:

    - Digital obsoletion. One issue digital archivists face is older, proprietary formats becoming obsolete or abandoned by their creators, therefore making it a lot harder to get access to in the future. If the programs are abandoned, it means you not only need to keep access to a copy of the old program, but also an operating system that is compatible. It's possible the digital files for Ghosts face this, probably not but still a possibility.

    -There's also the issue that maybe they no longer have a copy of the digital scan for whatever reason.

    -The model was scanned in 1996. The technology for scanning faces into 3D models has come a veerryyy long way since then. While it might look alright to our untrained eyes, to professionals who are familiar with complex 3D modelling, it might simply not be high quality enough.

    Ignoring all of this, there is the fact they actually did scan a 3D model made of Michael Jackson's face during the production of Ghosts:

    Read this link here: https://www.fxguide.com/featured/the...ackson-reborn/ It describes how they used an actual plaster life cast made of Michael's face in 1997 by Stan Winston. However as great as the cast was, it was good for measuring the dimensions of his face but it did not give accurate skin pore textures. In fact, due to pressure from the plaster they also faced additional issues with the cast. On top of this, it's only in one pose. Often when they scan your face for digital reproduction, they get you to do numerous poses. If they could just use the 1996 digital scan as a base, they would but they either couldn't get access to the digital files, or the physical cast made was more accurate than a 1996 digital model (another very possible case).

    I think also that many people don't understand how extremely difficult it is to make a realistic, digital human face and animate it (understatement!!!!). It's not as simple as just grabbing a scan from 1996 and everything's hunky dory, even today filmmakers with technology that are thousand times more powerful than what they had access to in 1996 still struggle. 2016's Star Wars: Rogue One film featured 2 characters with digital human faces, one of them 'portrayed' by Peter Cushing who had been dead since 1994. Many people who weren't aware of his death thought he was real, but a number of people still noticed he was a bit off. Us humans are extremely good at noticing when a face is slightly off, which just makes it even harder.

    Keep in mind that ILM had access to far superior and greater state of the art technology than the studio that worked on MJ. Even though we've come along way in a matter of years, their models weren't perfect even if they're some of the greatest CGI I've ever seen.

    Criticise the dancing of the hologram if you want because frankly the dancing was certainly nowhere near MJ standards, plus it was obtained through easier and more accurate methods. Just understand that presenting an accurate, realistic digital human face and animating it is actually extremely difficult, especially if the actor isn't here.
    Last edited by HIStoric; 13-09-2017 at 07:24 AM.

  20. #11
    Points: 16,185, Level: 81
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 165
    Overall activity: 21.0%
    Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    2,468
    Points
    16,185
    Level
    81
    Thanks
    1,747
    Thanked 2,337 Times in 918 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    There isn't a single thing they've done since inception that didn't have a significant downside to it EXCEPT maybe Bad 25 (the only real downside being the poor quality of the concert).

    Although I do indeed have high standards where Michael is concerned, I don't feel my expectations are unrealistic or I'm asking too much or whatever else the 'always pro-Estate' guys throw around.

    That's not to say there weren't things I liked in each of the projects, too. But my appraisal of the Estate's 8 years would be somewhere in the middle perhaps leaning to the negative, rather than positive.

  21. #12
    Points: 3,713, Level: 38
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 47.0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    249
    Points
    3,713
    Level
    38
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked 83 Times in 54 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    I think that ultimately, it all boils down to money. Those currently in charge may truly care about Michael's legacy, or they may not. But first and foremost, they are a business...and so they'll make decisions based on what they think will sell the best, in the shortest amount of time. For whatever reason, they didn't see any immediate profit in a 25th-anniversary reissue of the "Dangerous" album. While I think that was extremely foolish of them, I also recognize its their choice to make. All the requests and petitions in the world won't make any difference, unless more people start speaking with their wallets. Personally, I wish that Michael's family was more directly involved with his estate, especially Katherine, Janet, and his kids. Conflicts or not, they were the ones who seemed to care most about him, along with Tito and Rebbie (the only siblings to appear in "Life Of An Icon").

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to Moviefan2k4 For This Useful Post:


  23. #13
    Points: 26,927, Level: 97
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 423
    Overall activity: 97.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranOverdrive25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    11,311
    Points
    26,927
    Level
    97
    Thanks
    31
    Thanked 3,402 Times in 1,585 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    a lot of negativity in here for a thread called "keeping The Faith" lol!



    Not direction at any particular person...
    **He lives forever within us**

  24. #14
    Points: 7,323, Level: 56
    Level completed: 87%, Points required for next Level: 27
    Overall activity: 35.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Toronto , ON
    Posts
    936
    Points
    7,323
    Level
    56
    Thanks
    2,748
    Thanked 1,180 Times in 430 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4 View Post
    I think that ultimately, it all boils down to money. Those currently in charge may truly care about Michael's legacy, or they may not. But first and foremost, they are a business...and so they'll make decisions based on what they think will sell the best, in the shortest amount of time. For whatever reason, they didn't see any immediate profit in a 25th-anniversary reissue of the "Dangerous" album. While I think that was extremely foolish of them, I also recognize its their choice to make. All the requests and petitions in the world won't make any difference, unless more people start speaking with their wallets. Personally, I wish that Michael's family was more directly involved with his estate, especially Katherine, Janet, and his kids. Conflicts or not, they were the ones who seemed to care most about him, along with Tito and Rebbie (the only siblings to appear in "Life Of An Icon").
    Maybe if the family was more involved, we would see actual Jackson's tour concerts for once. My only disappointment with the estate are the lack of concert releases. Mj deserves more than 2...

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Robbsaber01 For This Useful Post:


  26. #15
    Points: 26,927, Level: 97
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 423
    Overall activity: 97.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranOverdrive25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    11,311
    Points
    26,927
    Level
    97
    Thanks
    31
    Thanked 3,402 Times in 1,585 Posts

    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    ^ Well there is always a chance that a part of the reason the estate does not visit much Jackson family stuff is they know they'll be after a large portion of the proceeds and try dictating how things go.. forcing themselves into promotion etc..
    **He lives forever within us**

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to KOPV For This Useful Post:


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •