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Thread: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

   
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    Default Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    I'm sure I'm not the only fan who feels somewhat let down each time the Estate announces a new project. I don't mean to sound pessimistic or ungrateful but as fans of one of the biggest artists ever it's sad that we have to relay on leaks for "new" material. I've been a MJ fan since Earth Song but the releases after MJ's passing (bar Bad 25 and Xscape) have been pretty bland. It used to be really exciting whenever there was rumours of a new project or something in the works, now, i just find my enthusiasm for releases drained slightly. I'll always be a fan but just in terms of official new stuff it's not looking good, well, in my opinion anyway.

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    All I can say is that I share your opinion. I feel exactly the same.

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    I don't have faith anymore with the Estate. I don't hope anymore until an official announcements. We were very disappointed too often.

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    It just seems like they are deserting "real" (i use that term loosely) fans and focusing more on the general consumer who doesn't know much about MJ's music to hook them in and make them a fan and buy all the albums.

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    Since Michael's passing, we got 2 albums worth of new material. Sure one of them had 3 fake songs but still the point stands. We also got This Is It rehearsals, Bad 25 re-issue which had 6 new songs, a concert and a documentary. Also Off The Wall documentary.

    It's quite unreasonable to expect the Estate to release albums of new songs every 2-3 years when MJ himself liked to wait 4-5 years between albums. We got 2 studio albums in the 80s, 2 studio albums in the 90s and just 1 in the 00s. So far in this decade, we have got 2 albums of new material which is on par with what MJ did in his lifetime. The Estate are thinking long term. There isn't an infinite amount of material left and MJ isn't here to record new stuff anymore so the Estate are right to not go with the unreasonable demands of some MJ fans and take their time between album releases. I'm sure the Estate want to still have unreleased material left to release 20-30 years from now so they can't release everything within the first decade of MJ's passing. Some fans need to be patient and understand it's all part of a long term plan to keep growing MJ's legacy.
    Last edited by Blue Criminal; 14-09-2017 at 04:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    What I find disappointing is the care taken. The estate like to say 'the quality goes in before the name goes on'. But really? ... there is and album in MJ's catalogue with 3 songs on there that aren't even him!! There's an off the wall release that came with a stick of chalk. A Halloween album that doesn't even include 'Is it Scary'. There are myriad other mistakes to my mind including the choices of single releases - the lacklustre videos, the beyond stupid hologram of 'MJ'. I could care less how often we got the releases as long as they weren't so careless. These guys have access to thousands of hours of video that MJ filmed in his lifetime, endless takes of songs for deluxe editions without dipping into unknown songs, they have actual 3D model of MJ's face (yet choose not to use it for hologram?). I could go on but who has the time.

    Honestly - just get a panel of fans together who have some decent knowledge and ideas of MJ to come up with cool releases. Release compilations etc for public consumption of course because legacy building is important, but at the same time - make FAN releases for the hardcores. Trying to create releases that appeal to the general public as well as fans who already have all this stuff just doesn't work. Xscape worked to some degree because it covered both audiences.

    Anywho .. my two cents!

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    I don`t know why you expect unreleased songs when the Estate gave a clear message it will not happen in the near future. I understand this strategy.

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    I feel a bit let down but I'm sure good releases will come at some point. Just don't buy the releases that look bad. I'm excited to see Thriller in HD and I hope there will be a new concert release. At some point there will.

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Criminal View Post
    Since Michael's passing, we got 2 albums worth of new material. Sure one of them had 3 fake songs but still the point stands. We also got This Is It rehearsals, Bad 25 re-issue which had 6 new songs, a concert and a documentary. Also Off The Wall documentary.

    It's quite unreasonable to expect the Estate to release albums of new songs every 2-3 years when MJ himself liked to wait 4-5 years between albums. We got 2 studio albums in the 80s, 2 studio albums in the 90s and just 1 in the 00s. So far in this decade, we have got 2 albums of new material which is on par with what MJ did in his lifetime. The Estate are thinking long term. There isn't an infinite amount of material left and MJ isn't here to record new stuff anymore so the Estate are right to not go with the unreasonable demands of some MJ and take their time between album releases. I'm sure the Estate want to still have unreleased material left to release 20-30 years from now so they can't release everything within the first decade of MJ's passing. Some fans need to be patient and understand it's all part of a long term plan to keep growing MJ's legacy.
    How dare you bring common sense into this

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    Quote Originally Posted by arnspecs View Post
    A Halloween album that doesn't even include 'Is it Scary'.
    Go read the press release, its states that it's a collection of his "all-time most electrifying and danceable tracks". Outside of the chorus, Is It Scary isn't really danceable and thus wasn't included. Look at the other tracks and they're easy to dance to

    Quote Originally Posted by arnspecs View Post
    These guys have access to thousands of hours of video that MJ filmed in his lifetime, endless takes of songs for deluxe editions without dipping into unknown songs, they have actual 3D model of MJ's face (yet choose not to use it for hologram?). I could go on but who has the time.
    There's actually a myriad of technical reasons as to why they do not immediately utilise the digital model made of Michael's face:

    - Digital obsoletion. One issue digital archivists face is older, proprietary formats becoming obsolete or abandoned by their creators, therefore making it a lot harder to get access to in the future. If the programs are abandoned, it means you not only need to keep access to a copy of the old program, but also an operating system that is compatible. It's possible the digital files for Ghosts face this, probably not but still a possibility.

    -There's also the issue that maybe they no longer have a copy of the digital scan for whatever reason.

    -The model was scanned in 1996. The technology for scanning faces into 3D models has come a veerryyy long way since then. While it might look alright to our untrained eyes, to professionals who are familiar with complex 3D modelling, it might simply not be high quality enough.

    Ignoring all of this, there is the fact they actually did scan a 3D model made of Michael Jackson's face during the production of Ghosts:

    Read this link here: https://www.fxguide.com/featured/the...ackson-reborn/ It describes how they used an actual plaster life cast made of Michael's face in 1997 by Stan Winston. However as great as the cast was, it was good for measuring the dimensions of his face but it did not give accurate skin pore textures. In fact, due to pressure from the plaster they also faced additional issues with the cast. On top of this, it's only in one pose. Often when they scan your face for digital reproduction, they get you to do numerous poses. If they could just use the 1996 digital scan as a base, they would but they either couldn't get access to the digital files, or the physical cast made was more accurate than a 1996 digital model (another very possible case).

    I think also that many people don't understand how extremely difficult it is to make a realistic, digital human face and animate it (understatement!!!!). It's not as simple as just grabbing a scan from 1996 and everything's hunky dory, even today filmmakers with technology that are thousand times more powerful than what they had access to in 1996 still struggle. 2016's Star Wars: Rogue One film featured 2 characters with digital human faces, one of them 'portrayed' by Peter Cushing who had been dead since 1994. Many people who weren't aware of his death thought he was real, but a number of people still noticed he was a bit off. Us humans are extremely good at noticing when a face is slightly off, which just makes it even harder.

    Keep in mind that ILM had access to far superior and greater state of the art technology than the studio that worked on MJ. Even though we've come along way in a matter of years, their models weren't perfect even if they're some of the greatest CGI I've ever seen.

    Criticise the dancing of the hologram if you want because frankly the dancing was certainly nowhere near MJ standards, plus it was obtained through easier and more accurate methods. Just understand that presenting an accurate, realistic digital human face and animating it is actually extremely difficult, especially if the actor isn't here.
    Last edited by HIStoric; 13-09-2017 at 07:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    There isn't a single thing they've done since inception that didn't have a significant downside to it EXCEPT maybe Bad 25 (the only real downside being the poor quality of the concert).

    Although I do indeed have high standards where Michael is concerned, I don't feel my expectations are unrealistic or I'm asking too much or whatever else the 'always pro-Estate' guys throw around.

    That's not to say there weren't things I liked in each of the projects, too. But my appraisal of the Estate's 8 years would be somewhere in the middle perhaps leaning to the negative, rather than positive.

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    I think that ultimately, it all boils down to money. Those currently in charge may truly care about Michael's legacy, or they may not. But first and foremost, they are a business...and so they'll make decisions based on what they think will sell the best, in the shortest amount of time. For whatever reason, they didn't see any immediate profit in a 25th-anniversary reissue of the "Dangerous" album. While I think that was extremely foolish of them, I also recognize its their choice to make. All the requests and petitions in the world won't make any difference, unless more people start speaking with their wallets. Personally, I wish that Michael's family was more directly involved with his estate, especially Katherine, Janet, and his kids. Conflicts or not, they were the ones who seemed to care most about him, along with Tito and Rebbie (the only siblings to appear in "Life Of An Icon").

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    a lot of negativity in here for a thread called "keeping The Faith" lol!



    Not direction at any particular person...
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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4 View Post
    I think that ultimately, it all boils down to money. Those currently in charge may truly care about Michael's legacy, or they may not. But first and foremost, they are a business...and so they'll make decisions based on what they think will sell the best, in the shortest amount of time. For whatever reason, they didn't see any immediate profit in a 25th-anniversary reissue of the "Dangerous" album. While I think that was extremely foolish of them, I also recognize its their choice to make. All the requests and petitions in the world won't make any difference, unless more people start speaking with their wallets. Personally, I wish that Michael's family was more directly involved with his estate, especially Katherine, Janet, and his kids. Conflicts or not, they were the ones who seemed to care most about him, along with Tito and Rebbie (the only siblings to appear in "Life Of An Icon").
    Maybe if the family was more involved, we would see actual Jackson's tour concerts for once. My only disappointment with the estate are the lack of concert releases. Mj deserves more than 2...

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    Default Re: Keeping faith in the Estate for new releases.

    ^ Well there is always a chance that a part of the reason the estate does not visit much Jackson family stuff is they know they'll be after a large portion of the proceeds and try dictating how things go.. forcing themselves into promotion etc..
    **He lives forever within us**

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