Trending Topic - Beyonce Has Surpassed Michael Jackson - Thoughts?

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Bey or MJ?

by Will Laniv


Following Beyoncé’s Coachella performance this morning there’s a question now being asked that involves the King of Pop, Michael Jackson.

Who is the better performer?

There really is no right or wrong answer and I’m going to tell you why.

Michael Jackson is the GOAT. No Question. In fact even Beyoncé will acknowledge this. He’s the biggest selling artist of all-time. He’s the most beloved artist of all-time. He’s the most talked about artist of all-time. He’s the most iconic artist of all-time. He’s also the greatest live performer of all-time.

That’s it. Done. You can all go home now.

While I joke it’s still true. But you know what? Beyoncé is also the greatest live performer of all-time. She has proven time and time again that she is not to be overlooked. Her dedication to live performance is borderline obsessive. She wants to make sure that every little thing is done correctly. Whether it’s the choreography, the lighting, the sound, the stage set up, the timings, the pyro, the hysteria, the featured guests, and everything else in-between, Bey’s on it.


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The evidence has always stacked up in Bey's favour when it comes to her being the heir to MJ’s throne. If not her, who else would you suggest?

Chris Brown had his moment and we all thought he was going to be the next Michael Jackson. The press were painting him that way, the fans were willing it to be a thing, and if truth be told, I was on the Chris Brown train heavy. I’d never seen anyone dance as close to Mike until CB, and he did it with his own sense of style. Unfortunately we all saw how that turned out.

Then there’s Bruno Mars. Unquestionably a top flight showman, but for me he’s never quite had that individuality that Mike had and that Beyoncé has. Bruno is talented beyond belief. He’s a child of pop culture, it runs through his veins. But as amazing as his live performances are he’s more great than he is transcendent. To use a basketball analogy, Bruno Mars is the Kobe Bryant to Michael Jackson’s Michael Jordan.

Throughout the years there have been numerous other artists who were obviously influenced by Michael Jackson but couldn’t compartmentalise what it would take to get anywhere near his level. Think Usher, Ginuwine, Justin Timberlake.

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But while we talk about Beyoncé being the heir to MJ’s throne, what about her being the ruler of all rulers, the best to ever do it?

We humans love to compare, especially when it comes to art and sport. In basketball there’s a daily debate on who’s better, Michael Jordan or Lebron James. In boxing there was always a discussion on whether Mike Tyson could have beaten Muhammad Ali in his prime. The thing is it’s not possible to ever come up with a legitimate answer when the two existed in different eras.

The NBA was a completely different league back when Jordan was playing, it was more aggressive, fouls weren’t as soft, but in Lebron’s era the game is quicker and perimeter shooting is way more important than a player’s mid-range game. The same observation can be made when discussing music and the live performing of it, it’s changed a lot.

Usually the best way to settle an argument like this would be to weigh up the pros and cons, but do either Beyoncé or Michael Jackson have any cons when it comes to live performances? Not likely.

Michael Jackson incorporated the moves of Fred Astaire with the funk and soul of black music and he created something that had never been seen before. His performances where like theatre productions set to music but they weren’t musicals, they were live music videos.

Look at his 1995 performance at the MTV Music Awards. It’s 15 minutes of musical precision. Skipping between songs fast and furiously, he brings in Slash from Guns N’ Roses, he recreates his Motown 25 performance where he first debuted the Moonwalk, and then he brings in a troop of dancers to create easily one of the greatest pieces of choreography we’d ever seen.

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And what Mike did so well was make anything difficult look easy. It all looked so simple whenever MJ did it. Everything from his black and white suits, the tie, the hat, the glove (although this was usually covered in gems), and socks, were all so simple but yet are still iconic to this day. Put what would usually be a regular outfit (minus the glove) on anyone else and they’d be accused of copying MJ or going to a Halloween party dressed as MJ. How is that possible? It’s just a suit.

As for Beyonce it’s the Tina Turner-esque aggression and passion written all over her face when she’s on that stage that makes her a truly superhuman performer. She’s going hard and sweating it out like she’s on the court with Serena Williams, and while she’s having fun doing it she won’t stop until she wins.

Then there’s her fight for civil rights. Never one to shy away from current affairs that involves politics, Beyoncé is a voice for the voiceless. Having campaigned for the black community, for women, for poor people, for gay people, all through her music and the performance of said music, like Mike she’s faced criticism for lending her support to the disenfranchised yet she fights on.

Add to this her superb backing dancers, who never seem to stray off beat, her costumes that often celebrate black culture and its history, and her stage backdrops - did you see her stunning performance at the 2011 Billboard Music Awards? - and you’ll understand why she’s regarded the best.

My personal favourite performances include Michael Jackson celebrating his 30th anniversary performing “You Rock My World” with Usher and Chris Tucker. Then how can I forget Beyoncé singing “At Last” by Etta James at the 2009 Inaugural Ball for President Obama and the First Lady? What a moment. It still gives me chills every time I watch it.

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Each of them has a Super Bowl performance under their belt that will forever go down in the history books. Mike’s 1993 halftime show was…well…just…wow! Using the biggest stage in the world as a platform to promote racial harmony and world peace, how can you not love it?

Beyoncé has performed twice at the Super Bowl, but her 2016 performance as part of Coldplay and Bruno’s Mars’ set that saw her celebrating black pride in the image of the Black Panther Party gets my vote.

Something they’ve both done very well is take their controversies and make them a part of their art. Whether it was Beyoncé’s husbands’ infidelity or the constant attack on Michael Jackson for everything ranging from child sexual assault allegations to him sleeping in an oxygen chamber, they both know how to turn a weakness into a strength - not many people are strong enough to do this.

They both invoke tears and I’m not afraid to admit to shedding a tear or two myself after watching a few of their performances. Sometimes you don’t even know why you’re crying but that’s precisely why we’re even having this discussion, they do that to you through their performances and not many people are blessed with that gift.

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Beyoncé means so much to so many people. She’s more than just music, she’s an icon, she’s a cultural leader and a beacon of hope for so many people. Whether you’re male, female, young, old, gay, straight, black or white, she’s got your best interests at heart. Much like Mike - just listen to “Earth Song”, "They Don’t Care About Us”, or “Heal the World”.

With that said, music isn’t some western where the town isn’t big enough for the both of them. As far as live performers go I don’t think neither Beyoncé or Michael Jackson are better than one another. Beyoncé is just this generation’s version of the King of Pop and we should all count ourselves lucky to be alive to witness it.
 
Her live shows are amazing.
Only one that comes close to what Michael used to do.
And yes, maybe she even surpassed him :)
 
mthalen;4220142 said:
Her live shows are amazing.
Only one that comes close to what Michael used to do.
And yes, maybe she even surpassed him :)

she is great, BUT..... as a whole, generally worldwide.... most people DO know who Michael Jackson is and many many HAVE SEEN MJs live show on the net or on TV or had been on his gigs.

Bey is more like a JayZ´s girl or the ex-DC who has a few hits....

I have never seen or heard of any artist, literally NONE, except Michael Jackson, who would be promoted or presented on TV (especially in the pre-youtube and pre-net era) in such monstrous way like MJ was/has been, especially in Europe in the 90s, and then after 2009.

Its not like comparing U2 or the Stones´monstrous stages to MJ tour stages, there is something more than the lights or big screen.....

What makes her better than MJ? ... being more popular through social media and have more Grammys?
 
Ah, sorry was only talking about live shows :)

I'm comparing History Tour with Beyonce's last tour. Or her Coachella appearance.
Or maybe compare Superbowls...

I hated MJ lip syncing so much during the last tour.
Saw Bad Tour live in '88 when I was 12 so been a fan forever :)

That doesn't mean you can't keep an eye open to current artists like Beyonce, who sold 100.000.000 albums :)
 
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mthalen;4220146 said:
That doesn't mean you can't keep an eye open to current artists like Beyonce, who sold 100.000.000 albums :)

She is in the range of about 70 Mio. albums, that`s great for sure and she is a great artist but not in the range of MJ.

http://chartmasters.org/2017/10/cspc-data-collector/19/

I think in Europe many people will even struggle to name a song of her, it may be even more people know Janet Jackson (because she is the sister of MJ), then Beoncye.
 
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MJ was a different era though :)
Where people only had a few TV channels and everyone watched the same stuff.
When you bought an album you had to think about how you spent your money.
Nowadays people can stream anything they like and skip through hundreds of albums in a day :)

Anyways, I was comparing her live performances to MJ.
Helps if you've actually seen both, which I assume you have not (Beyonce).

Topic Starter said it best: Beyoncé is just this generation&#8217;s version of the King of Pop and we should all count ourselves lucky to be alive to witness it.
 
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mthalen;4220152 said:
Nowadays people can stream anything they like and skip through hundreds of albums in a day :)).

Yes and MJ is also a big in streamings nowadays and in this era without releasing new albums.
 
This is literally the stupidest thread I've ever seen on MJJCommunity and I've seen some stupid threads in my day. Beyonce WISHES she were on the same playing field as Michael & Janet. She's a thief and a boring artist. She's been churning out the same rehashed routines since 2007 and the only reason she is staying relevant in the public eye is because she has a clever marketing team behind her modeling everything about her look and her career. She has no high school education so it's obviously not her herself modeling her image to the public. Michael and Janet became legends because they were smart and Joseph & Katherine taught them correctly (I mean I'm not condoning the abuse behind the scenes,but they did get them to where they are) and they knew how to play the game of the music industry and they worked their asses off to become the names they are now. Beyonce had Matthew & Tina,but they handed everything to her. She didn't work a day in her life to get to where she is now. I mean yeah,she puts on the front that she's a workaholic,but I don't buy that at all if she's had the gall to steal from other artists,including Michael & Janet. She's a basic talent at best,singing and dancing wise. The fact that she has to credit forty different songwriters along with herself for one song is quite asinine and hysterical to me. But quite honestly she is NOT what the media hypes her up to be and she will never equate to the success and appeal that Michael & Janet brought to the table in any generation,no matter what her delusional fans may think.
By the way,just to give you more of an educated opinion rather than my ramblings,I'm linking this video by TJ Kirk (formerly AmazingAtheist) about his feelings on Beyonce and he states things far more superior to how I have.
[video=youtube;sObUOXfND5w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sObUOXfND5w[/video]
 
This is silly. Michael is on another level and really no one can be compared to him. Beyoncé is good but she is no Michael Jackson. Even Beyoncé would laugh at this being said. People need to stop taking one or two people comment (clearly said in order to start something. Why not compare Beyonce to Madonna). With MJ, this has been going on from the 70's from Donny Osmond to today with Bruno Mars. Let it go. Michael is the greatest and there is no comparison. Let Beyonce stand on her own but when you are her fans start this comparison to clearly to start internet drama, you will lose in the end.
 
Dunk96;4220166 said:
This is literally the stupidest thread I've ever seen on MJJCommunity and I've seen some stupid threads in my day. Beyonce WISHES she were on the same playing field as Michael & Janet. She's a thief and a boring artist. She's been churning out the same rehashed routines since 2007 and the only reason she is staying relevant in the public eye is because she has a clever marketing team behind her modeling everything about her look and her career. She has no high school education so it's obviously not her herself modeling her image to the public. Michael and Janet became legends because they were smart and Joseph & Katherine taught them correctly (I mean I'm not condoning the abuse behind the scenes,but they did get them to where they are) and they knew how to play the game of the music industry and they worked their asses off to become the names they are now. Beyonce had Matthew & Tina,but they handed everything to her. She didn't work a day in her life to get to where she is now. I mean yeah,she puts on the front that she's a workaholic,but I don't buy that at all if she's had the gall to steal from other artists,including Michael & Janet. She's a basic talent at best,singing and dancing wise. The fact that she has to credit forty different songwriters along with herself for one song is quite asinine and hysterical to me. But quite honestly she is NOT what the media hypes her up to be and she will never equate to the success and appeal that Michael & Janet brought to the table in any generation,no matter what her delusional fans may think.
By the way,just to give you more of an educated opinion rather than my ramblings,I'm linking this video by TJ Kirk (formerly AmazingAtheist) about his feelings on Beyonce and he states things far more superior to how I have.
[video=youtube;sObUOXfND5w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sObUOXfND5w[/video]
Dunk96, Having a high school education has nothing to do with talent. That is like saying because someone has a college degree make them a better singer than someone who only has a high school education. Keep the issue on the talent and nothing else; when you don't, you start losing the importance of the argument. Sorry Beyoncé can run with Janet but she is no MJ (Beyoncé is a better singer than Janet as females). I will give Beyoncé her credit but I think those who try to put her up against MJ is being silly (and Beyoncé is NOT boring. Again, to make comments like that will make you lose the importance of the debate). MJ is on another level (not even Janet should be in the same breathe with Michael) even MJ detractors have to say this "GREATEST RENTERTAINER TO EVER LIVE". Even MJ's influence like James Brown, Fred Astair said MJ was the best).
 
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mthalen;4220152 said:
MJ was a different era though :)
Where people only had a few TV channels and everyone watched the same stuff.
When you bought an album you had to think about how you spent your money.
Nowadays people can stream anything they like and skip through hundreds of albums in a day :)

Anyways, I was comparing her live performances to MJ.
Helps if you've actually seen both, which I assume you have not (Beyonce).

Topic Starter said it best: Beyoncé is just this generation&#8217;s version of the King of Pop and we should all count ourselves lucky to be alive to witness it.

The fact that Michael Jackson is from a different era and is STILL on top of Beyonce and everyone else, in every way, nine years after his death, is all we need to know, to stop this topic starter in its tracks. Beyonce isn't even this generation's King of Pop......Ed Sheeran is above her, in everything, including performance, because he can stand there on stage with just himself and his guitar and hold an audience of fifty thousand people in the palm of his hand (just as Michael could do, minus the guitar). Beyonce is popular with a particular demographic in the United States....not across all demographics, worldwide. Her performances rely on high technology and whilst they have "wow" factor visually, I don't think she connects emotionally with her audience. There's way too much hair-flipping, crotch-flashing and fish-net stockinged legs, in all of her appearances, for my liking.
 
terrell;4220168 said:
Dunk96, Having a high school education has nothing to do with talent. That is like saying because someone has a college degree make them a better singer than someone who only has a high school education. Keep the issue on the talent and nothing else; when you don't, you start losing the importance of the argument. Sorry Beyoncé can run with Janet but she is no MJ (Beyoncé is a better singer than Janet as females). I will give Beyoncé her credit but I think those who try to put her up against MJ is being silly (and Beyoncé is NOT boring. Again, to make comments like that will make you lose the importance of the debate). MJ is on another level (not even Janet should be in the same breathe with Michael) even MJ detractors have to say this "GREATEST RENTERTAINER TO EVER LIVE". Even MJ's influence like James Brown, Fred Astair said MJ was the best).

I understand what you're saying here, but this is what I think, when people want to mention Beyonce's education (or lack thereof) in comparison to Michael's situation.

Michael was highly intelligent and he educated himself for the most part. He didn't have a consistent, high school education or a college education; BUT he was an auto-didactic, he was curious and he thought outside of the box....not only with regard to music and entertainment, but in many, many other academic, social, spiritual, philosophical and political areas. He could discuss all manner of topics with people....he had opinions, he had vision, he had ideas, he had a message. He was MORE than a song and dance man. Comparing that to someone like Beyonce gets people riled up, because she rarely speaks, other than when she is on stage. She doesn't do interviews, she doesn't do magazine stories....for all intents and purposes she has no thoughts on any topic at all - no one knows who she really is, or what she thinks, about anything. She just looks like a plastic person, to me...other than when she performs, of course, but then, she's like a puppet for the team that crafts her, molds her and tells her exactly what to do and when.
 
image.jpg
 
terrell;4220168 said:
Dunk96, Having a high school education has nothing to do with talent. That is like saying because someone has a college degree make them a better singer than someone who only has a high school education. Keep the issue on the talent and nothing else; when you don't, you start losing the importance of the argument. Sorry Beyoncé can run with Janet but she is no MJ (Beyoncé is a better singer than Janet as females). I will give Beyoncé her credit but I think those who try to put her up against MJ is being silly (and Beyoncé is NOT boring. Again, to make comments like that will make you lose the importance of the debate). MJ is on another level (not even Janet should be in the same breathe with Michael) even MJ detractors have to say this "GREATEST RENTERTAINER TO EVER LIVE". Even MJ's influence like James Brown, Fred Astair said MJ was the best).

Yes she is incredibly boring. She's hashed out the same ten dance routines for the past ten years. Please tell me again how my comments and opinions are making me lose a one-sided debate that you're trying to start with me.
giphy.gif

It's all on you sweetheart,not on me. It doesn't matter that Beyonce is the better singer between her and Janet. But until I can hear Beyonce belt a whistle like Mariah Carey or gracefully sing power ballads like Celine Dion or be the mother,daughter,and Holy Spirit like Whitney Houston she will not sit at a table of legends like Michael & Janet and other artists of the generation.
 
Dunk96;4220180 said:
Yes she is incredibly boring. She's hashed out the same ten dance routines for the past ten years.

Yes and I commented on this, too, upthread. It's all a lot of smoke and mirrors - hair swishing, booty shaking.....and not much else.
 
This is a comment from a member on another MJ forum, regarding this exact same "debate". I see no lies told.


Except for a handful of genuine hits, here and there Beyonce's catalogue is mediocre. That's why she's constantly re-working her old hits and the never-was-a-hit in concerts; she has very little to pull from. She needs that stage razzamatazz....the dazzle...and she's really good at it I will give her that.

But her actual music? Nah son.

All the greats: Michael, Prince, Mariah, Whitney....hell even Madonna and the Stones....could give you a 2 hr show, JUST with their catalogue of 20, 30 yrs.

Beyonce can't do that and she knows it. After 20 yrs in the game, she has like 5 or 6 recognizable monster hits.
 
How you can even compair/compete artists of a different sex i dont know anyway. Chalk and cheese
 
Case in point: sales/Sony revenue, as at September 2014

More than Chris Brown, Pharrell Williams and Beyonce combined. With a posthumous album.

4dc03fce-a455-47b8-b60d-553fdf56fa3b-jpeg.232168
 
Beyonce is one of the most overrated modern artists working today. She's a good singer, but her songs are mostly medicore or just not good at all. Putting her anywhere on the same level as Michael Jackson is an insult.
 
I'm firmly in the camp Beyonce can't dance/isn't as good a dancer as people make out. That alone means she isn't in MJs world. So insulting to MJs talent that she is mentioned in the same breath. They just love to discredit him.
 
I admit, I do not know Beyoncé well enough. But I think this question could also be helpful to answer OPs question:

Was there anything Beyoncé did that really changed modern culture / pop culture and modern dance (!) forever?

Actually, I don´t care that much about record sales. Impact on society is what makes an artist.
 
In ten years people will look back at this debate and laugh. How many times have the media proclaimed someone greater and better than MJ in the last 30 years? every hot singer in the last 30 years was declared better and great than MJ. Where are they all now? :rolleyes: If someone as talentless as Britney Spears has become a legend, I see no reason why Beyonce is not called one too. The standards are that low nowadays. Let the delusional fans enjoy this rubbish.
 
Mikky Dee;4220177 said:
I understand what you're saying here, but this is what I think, when people want to mention Beyonce's education (or lack thereof) in comparison to Michael's situation.

Michael was highly intelligent and he educated himself for the most part. He didn't have a consistent, high school education or a college education; BUT he was an auto-didactic, he was curious and he thought outside of the box....not only with regard to music and entertainment, but in many, many other academic, social, spiritual, philosophical and political areas. He could discuss all manner of topics with people....he had opinions, he had vision, he had ideas, he had a message. He was MORE than a song and dance man. Comparing that to someone like Beyonce gets people riled up, because she rarely speaks, other than when she is on stage. She doesn't do interviews, she doesn't do magazine stories....for all intents and purposes she has no thoughts on any topic at all - no one knows who she really is, or what she thinks, about anything. She just looks like a plastic person, to me...other than when she performs, of course, but then, she's like a puppet for the team that crafts her, molds her and tells her exactly what to do and when.
She does have thoughts. I love how she bring the attention to Historic Black colleges, issues that effect her community something many others still want to dismiss and other issues. Her music is good and I enjoy her compare to what is out here now and I will give her dues; BUT she is no Michael Jackson (and I agree with your comments on MJ's thinking because he was and that is the sign of a musical genius another reason why she should not be compared to him; but she is good in what she does). Again, I can give props without trashing someone who has talent. The girl is good but saying is better than MJ is silly.
 
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Soundmind;4220203 said:
In ten years people will look back at this debate and laugh. How many times have the media proclaimed someone greater and better than MJ in the last 30 years? every hot singer in the last 30 years was declared better and great than MJ. Where are they all now? :rolleyes: If someone as talentless as Britney Spears has become a legend, I see no reason why Beyonce is not called one too. The standards are that low nowadays. Let the delusional fans enjoy this rubbish.
I agree. remember when Nick Cannon said this about Chris Brown two or three years ago. We know who is the best but in doing so I will give these other artist their props but they are No Michael Jackson even Beyoncé and Chris will tell you that. These people like chance the rapper are just hyped up over a good show she did and it was good but she is still no MJ.
 
Dunk96;4220180 said:
Yes she is incredibly boring. She's hashed out the same ten dance routines for the past ten years. Please tell me again how my comments and opinions are making me lose a one-sided debate that you're trying to start with me.
giphy.gif

It's all on you sweetheart,not on me. It doesn't matter that Beyonce is the better singer between her and Janet. But until I can hear Beyonce belt a whistle like Mariah Carey or gracefully sing power ballads like Celine Dion or be the mother,daughter,and Holy Spirit like Whitney Houston she will not sit at a table of legends like Michael & Janet and other artists of the generation.
Because you are trying to dismiss what the girl does. If you do not like her, that is fine BUT to dismiss what she does and have achieved is silly. That is just like when people wan to focus on what Michael did to nose or whatever; still at the end of the day, that has nothing to with his achievement and to know he is the greatest entertainer. That is what I mean by "you lose the debate" and just come across as a "hater". Like I said, No one should be compare to MJ and to his talent, his impact, his achievement, his charm, his stage presence (MJ can stand on stage with no background if he choose and bring the house down) and he has level of fame very few achieve (Beyoncé can still go to store and shop unlike MJ which would caused outbreak excitement) But in terms of speaking on the truth of MJ, I do not have to belittle another artist who is talent in their own right (even MJ liked Beyonce. So if she is nothing, what did MJ and Prince, Tina, etc seen and liked her when it came to her talent? And they are the greats). As for the women you just listed (Janet can not even touch those women as singers), where did you see me saying Beyoncé is in the same boat as Mariah, Whitney, etc (and save the 'sweetheart" remark. I do not need it. again I can DEBATE and stay on the issue. That is also my point. I do not have to do the TRUMPISM). Even, with all what you are saying, that still does NOT take away her talent. YOU just do not like her (which is fine as I have already said) but that still does NOT take nothing away from her in her OWN RIGHT. She is just NO MICHAEL JACKSON.
 
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