Does SONY Hold the Rights to all Michael Jackson's Short Films?

tragickingdom

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It's 2018 soon it will 2019 and yet I don't understand why some of Michael Jackson's most popular music videos/short films are at the crummiest bitrate and resolution on Youtube (and elsewhere), when a lot of them were shot on film and could easily get remastered.

Last month I finally looked at that Bad25 video and I was blown away that the short film was 16:9 footage they were showing.
You could see more of the dancers in the shot over the 4:3 version that is widely shown.

I realize now a lot of Michael's short films were filmed and it's kind of a heartbreak to see his short films not receive the best audio video treatment and get remastered to HD/4K/etc.


Can you imagine, HD version of Thriller, Bad, TWYMMF, Jam, Remember The Time, etc.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

I think things will improve in time for many of MJ's earlier videos IF the MJ Estate can source the original film footage / masters.
For his 90s era videos film camera's fell out of favour and CGI was used (e.g. Who Is It, Remember The Time, Stranger In Moscow) and that would make it much more expensive for the MJ Estate to upgrade. It's already been discussed here at length so I won't get into it again. Just do a quick search if you're interested.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

Let me quote myself:

I have seen many fans demanding a Blu-ray (read: HD Remaster) of MJ's many short films. Won't happen either except for a single project like "Thriller" ("Ghosts" also has a small chance in the future) for many reasons including the fact that there's hardly a target audience anymore [short films originally served to promote the then-current albums which are now decades old, most fans have the DVD collections and have unrealistic expectations for their HD Remasters (especially the price)] and the sheer amount of technical ressources [source material is a mess, F/X need to be re-done from scratch (they were originally done at very low resolutions during post production)] and legal costs + contract chaos.



It's all in my posting:
- hardly a target audience anymore
- source material is a mess, F/X need to be re-done from scratch (they were originally done at very low resolutions during post production)]
- legal costs + contract chaos


In case you haven't noticed it: the Beatles' video footage consists of simple takes, there are no million dollar productions with F/X and huge crews and other big names that collaborated with MJ (back then), only some old raw film reels that needed restoration (many specialized companies can do this with the same quality).
There are no legal issues either, with lots of people who'd all want to get a big piece of the money cake, people that have been suing MJ/the Estate for years, people who'd only hand out the raw film reels for lots of money and want to cash in on MJ.

In order to make any profit, the MJ Estate/Sony would need a much larger audience which simply isn't there (The Beatles' Blu-ray restoration wasn't a high-risk investment, the costs were manageable and they didn't need massive sales to make a profit).
The legal costs and contract chaos with MJ don't magically dissolve themselves. Any of the big names involved with MJ's short films causes significant costs that you don't have with any of the Beatles' videos. That's the disadvantage of MJ wanting to collaborate with high-profile industry people all the time.

The Beatles' archivists didn't have to deal with such issues, these people were friendly/cooperative and not that demanding.


MJ only has a few low-costs music videos (particularly "She's Out Of My Life") while ALL music videos of The Beatles were low-costs (the first music video to pass the 500k mark was David Bowie's "Ashes To Ashes" and that was way after The Beatles' era).
Creating HD F/X from scratch costs a lot of money, too. You don't want it to look like some kid having played around with a cheap software and the result looking like something you'd expect on a youTube channel as a parody at best.



In short:
BAD 25 gave us 6 demos, yet the sales were poor.
Remastering his short films in HD (which would include recreating the F/X shots from scratch) would cost a lot and they would need high revenues in return.
It won't happen anytime soon because neither would there be enough people spending (more than just a little) money for it nor would they be able to keep costs for such a project at low levels.

Michael's perfectionism (always seeking for the newest state-of-the-art in technology back then) and his high-profile business endeavours for his short films are now making their presence felt.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

The 90s videos used film cameras too.

I think there are ways they could look at making this sort of thing profitable however aside from that I also think it's a really vital project for the sake of his legacy. Profits yielded elsewhere could be used to bankroll a worthwhile, historical preservation-type, project for example.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

I hope they release them on Blu-Ray. They really need to scan them in 4K. The Beatles released their music videos on Blu-ray so I'm sure there is market for it. I think Michael's short films would sell more.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

It`s a matter of willingness... all footage as from 1980 was shot on film reels. They need to go through the full archives and have an expert looking through the negatives, clean them, mastering the reels, then restoring lost/damaged frames... only then, a recreation of the short films be done.

Most CGI was done in then-standard software. It is possible (with some troubles) to recreate this..

Just look at the Star Trek TNG remastering.. all done from teh original film reels, staying as true to the original footage when it comes to special effects... those were 7 seasons.. They did the same with The Original Series... and Deep space nine... and...

As I said.. It`s just a matter of will from the Estate.. recreating Michael's short films is just a fraction of energy/money investment, compared to all those Star Trek boxes.. MJ`s video's would only take the resources used for, let`s say 2/3/4 Star Trek episodes.. since they were 45 minutes...
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

Just look at the Star Trek TNG remastering.. all done from teh original film reels, staying as true to the original footage when it comes to special effects... those were 7 seasons.. They did the same with The Original Series... and Deep space nine... and...

As I said.. It`s just a matter of will from the Estate..

There's an obvious market for Star Trek.....thus there was never any danger of overheads not being recouped, with that remastering project.

The MJ Estate's objective is to make money, not lose money. There's not enough pay-off in short film remastering to warrant doing it, in my opinion, because the market just isn't there.

Some people are way too obsessed with HQ this and HD that......instead, why not keep the integrity of the productions the way they were made, by Michael?
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

Well, Star Trek is a perfect example of a failure in regards to lowish sales of a remaster.
Did they do Deep Space Nine and Voyager afterwards? NOPE!
They didn't even do ENTERPRISE seasons 1-3 which still has poor picture quality, yet being the easiest one to remaster.


TOS and TNG were shot entirely on film and hardly had any F/X. Yet the TNG remastering project did not earn enough revenues and CBS was not happy with the sales.

They won't do Deep Space Nine and Voyager for that reason. Because unlike TOS and TNG, these shows feature an increased amount of F/X (especially DS9 seasons 5-7) and would cost a lot more but these shows do not have the same cult status like TOS and TNG.

That Star Trek example should show you why nothing is gonna happen anytime soon. Star Trek is a huge franchise with stronger video market sales than any MJ video stuff, yet there's no remastering of DS9 and VOY - the two shows that would really need it the most.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

I do not expect remastering MJ's music videos would sell enough DVD's/Blu-Rays to make profit.

BUT

If the video where remastered in HD (4K) with better sound and all that, maybe it could come on Netflix as the first musicvideoes ever. (that would help promote both MJ and his music)

The videos would maybe gain more views on youtube - youngsters want great picture quality? (don't know...)
But in the long run 20 years from now - the musicvideos will still promote the songs - and if some people every year buys MJ's music The Estate will make money. But it would be an investment that would take many years to reach break-even - or even give profit.
Then again - if great quality videos is wanted now - then imagine 30 years from now... People would not wanna see bad quality musicvideos at all maybe...
So as part of securing MJ's Legacy many years into the future it might be OK to spend some (a lot) money on this project, even if it it's not profitable.
That's an investment in future fans and MJ's Legacy. - could be worth the trouble and money IMO.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

Picture quality is definitely a big thing nowadays. Even most content on YouTube is high definition or higher (UHD). Whilst there may not be a market for it I definitely think that it should be done for preservation reasons.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

I do not expect remastering MJ's music videos would sell enough DVD's/Blu-Rays to make profit.

BUT

If the video where remastered in HD (4K) with better sound and all that, maybe it could come on Netflix as the first musicvideoes ever. (that would help promote both MJ and his music)

The videos would maybe gain more views on youtube - youngsters want great picture quality? (don't know...)
But in the long run 20 years from now - the musicvideos will still promote the songs - and if some people every year buys MJ's music The Estate will make money. But it would be an investment that would take many years to reach break-even - or even give profit.
Then again - if great quality videos is wanted now - then imagine 30 years from now... People would not wanna see bad quality musicvideos at all maybe...
So as part of securing MJ's Legacy many years into the future it might be OK to spend some (a lot) money on this project, even if it it's not profitable.
That's an investment in future fans and MJ's Legacy. - could be worth the trouble and money IMO.

I really like this idea! This is something the estate should look into
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

The short films seen in Moonwalker Blu-Ray look amazing in HD. They have historical value so they need to be remastered for preservation reasons at least. Same with concerts. I'm glad that Thriller has been scanned in 4K and there is talk about Ghosts. I hope they release those soon.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

Some people are way too obsessed with HQ this and HD that......instead, why not keep the integrity of the productions the way they were made, by Michael?

Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but Michael shot on film for a reason. Time and time again.

Could the Estate not remaster SOME of the music videos at least...the really big important ones. And create restrospective documentaries around them, sell them to TV stations internationally and then release on home video? It would at least recoup SOME of those big costs. The Estate should consider the importance of Michael's legacy in the longer term and a project like this is so vitally important.

And I think it goes without saying, these music videos weren't JUST music videos. They were pop culture cornerstones. They were game changers. Their influence remains evident even today.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

This is the same reason I think they didn't give us an HD film remastered Bad tour. Time constraints, and $. I can see them giving us Thriller/Ghosts Remstered, but to remaster every single short film is a big task. The fan in me would love it but unless it was to sell extremely well the estate arent going to do it. As mentioned above, they'd most likely have to completely re make the cgi. (Which is why it would be easier to give us a remastered concert ;) )
Basically I'm still holding out for Thriller/Ghosts, Im not confident on the others as of right now...
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

Is there CGI in all of Michael's videos? I mean I know he was fond of special effects but the way people are going on its as if each video was like the music video version of Star Wars.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Bad didn't have any digital effects did it? The Way You Make Me Feel didn't. Beat It didn't.

And we already have Leave Me Alone, Thriller, Come Together, Speed Demon and Smooth Criminal (and most of Another Part Of Me) in HD so no money needed there.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

Is there CGI in all of Michael's videos? I mean I know he was fond of special effects but the way people are going on its as if each video was like the music video version of Star Wars.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Bad didn't have any digital effects did it? The Way You Make Me Feel didn't. Beat It didn't.

And we already have Leave Me Alone, Thriller, Come Together, Speed Demon and Smooth Criminal (and most of Another Part Of Me) in HD so no money needed there.

Good question actually. I would say most of MJ's videos are without any CGI at all. So if they are easier/cheaper to remaster then they could start with those.

I can not think of many videos with CGI - but those I think have:
Give into Me
Black or White
Stranger in Moscow (if bluescreen is CGI??)
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

Good question actually. I would say most of MJ's videos are without any CGI at all. So if they are easier/cheaper to remaster then they could start with those.

I can not think of many videos with CGI - but those I think have:
Give into Me
Black or White
Stranger in Moscow (if bluescreen is CGI??)

In addition to the ones you mention there are digital effects in Remember the Time and Jam. Scream, prison TDCAU, Who Is It, Earth Song, You Are Not Alone as well.

I don't think there's anything in Blood, Dirty Diana, TDCAU Brazil either.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

In addition to the ones you mention there are digital effects in Remember the Time and Jam. Scream, prison TDCAU, Who Is It, Earth Song, You Are Not Alone as well.

I don't think there's anything in Blood, Dirty Diana, TDCAU Brazil either.

Somebody was adamant that YRMW also had effects applied on MJ's face in one particular scene but because the official version online isn't a good quality I was never quite sure. so maybe there's that one too. Or maybe not.

So yes there are a few that would require no CGI rework - mainly in the 80s. The Dangerous era was when it all started kicking in, as you would expect.

As for SIM, I wouldn't consider blue screen to be an obstacle. I haven't seen that one for a very long time but I remember there were some foreground effects such as slowed down raindrops and even a wasp/bee(?) that were added in post production and so they would require some work.

I guess the videos for Thriller and BAD are cheap and easy to update if the source material is available to the MJ Estate, and they're probably the ones that would attract most interest from the public, but I doubt they'd be big sellers - any music video project is only going to really attract sales from the fanbase and as soon as the estate make them available on official video streaming there's no reason for anybody to buy them. I think if the MJ Estate do it, they need to treat it as a freebie for the purpose of promotion on those sites, NOT as a revenue stream.
 
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Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

I think if the MJ Estate do it, they need to treat it as a freebie for the purpose of promotion on those sites, NOT as a revenue stream.

I agree very much. - And that purpose is good enough reason to spend some money on the remastering IMO.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

I dont wanna get too off topic but some vids with CGI:

Black Or White
Give Into Me
Who Is It
Ghosts
Scream
Remember The Time
Stranger In Moscow
You Are Not Alone
Earth Song
Leave Me Alone
Captain EO

Depending on how far back we are going there are more in the Jacksons days
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

Yeah good point. Blame it on the boogie, can you feel it.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

Yeah good point. Blame it on the boogie, can you feel it.

These wouldn't be computer generated would they? I mean they're clearly special effects but are they too early to be CG?

Come to think of it how was Can You Feel It created? Is it animation with the brothers overlayed?
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

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Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

I hope Thriller was just the beginning. Now we need all of his short movies restored in 4K. It's a ******** shame in 2018 to see them in very low quality on Youtube knowing that all of his short movies were shot in 35mm since Beat it.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

These wouldn't be computer generated would they? I mean they're clearly special effects but are they too early to be CG?

Come to think of it how was Can You Feel It created? Is it animation with the brothers overlayed?

Well they were composited somehow but i don't know for sure what method was used. if they were to update the videos today they would certainly use computer graphics.
 
HD

Picture quality is definitely a big thing nowadays. Even most content on YouTube is high definition or higher (UHD). Whilst there may not be a market for it I definitely think that it should be done for preservation reasons.
Not necessarily for older stuff though. When Prince passed, WB and then his estate started posting his music videos on an official Prince channel on Youtube. Most of them are 480 and a few are 360. Also having HD on Youtube is not always high picture or audio quality, just a large file. Like there's fan uploaded videos which are 1080 that are obviously 10th generation VHS. :rofl:
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

Also I don't think they would upload them on Youtube. You would have to buy Blu-ray to get them in HD.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

YouTube can stream videos in HD.
 
Re: Does SONY hold the right's to all Michael Jackson's short films?

The MJ Estate's primary objective is to preserve his legacy. If they don't even care about his short films, then they don't do their job.
 
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J5

Some people seem to act like Mike's music videos are rare and obscure and can't be found anywhere or stored in a basement without climate control like Prince's vault recordings. I'd be more interested in something like the 1973 concert movie Save The Children. It features several R&B/soul acts including the Jackson 5. As far as I know, it has never been released on home video, other than bootleg. There's an album that has some of the songs, which I don't think was ever re-released on CD. This wouldn't really have much to do with the estate though, but with the movie studio who originally released it. It's like the film reels for Wattstax (long believed to be lost) was discovered in an office building awhile back and it was restored and shown on PBS and released on DVD. Also other things like the 1970s Jacksons variety show. The issues with the TV show would be getting approval from the guest stars or their estate if deceased, plus music publishing fees. I wonder if the original tapes still exist, since TV networks during that era sometimes taped over programs, especially music ones, to save money. That was mostly before the 1970s, but it still happened afterwards.
 
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