Why does nobody talk about the vocal change between Thriller and Bad?

SmoothCriminal1995

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Why does nobody really mention how Michael's voice changed between Thriller and Bad?

Critics in 1987 seemed to be obsessed with his face, the rumours and the sales but they barely spoke about the music, the change in singing style or the fact that he took charge of the writing of the Bad album?

When I heard the albums back to back recently, it just made me really wonder why no one ever spoke about this. I mean he sounds so different, with a slight hint of familiarity at times. Personally I think he improved as a singer massively in the 5 years between the albums, his voice sounds more mature, richer and more versatile.
He attacks songs with much more fire and depth, to the point I couldn't imagine a Thriller era Mike singing a song like Smooth Criminal or Dirty Diana. But the soft gentler seductive side is still there in ballads like Liberian Girl and IJCSLY.

You can hear the Thriller Bad era hybrid songs like, We Are Here To Change The World, Scared Of The Moon and maybe I'm So Blue. But on the albums themselves there is barely any similarities in singing style. Which is massive credit to Mike.
The change happened massively around 1986 when Michael seemed to have worked with Seth Riggs to add a gritty edge to his vocal and I think it was a welcome addition and another string to Mike's bow as a singer.

What are you thoughts on this? Why does nobody ever mention this?
 
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We did get to hear Michael's more gritty vocals on State Of Shock, so I think it was always there. He just decided to use it a lot more for BAD to give the album more of an edgy feeling.
 
I’m always fascinated by his changing voice. He sounds like Thriller era in 1984, but starting in 1985, his voice changed. Listen to any song recorded in 1985 to notice the difference.

Michael’s voice also changed between Bad and Dangerous.
 
We did get to hear Michael's more gritty vocals on State Of Shock, so I think it was always there. He just decided to use it a lot more for BAD to give the album more of an edgy feeling.

Yeah good point mate, I forgot about State Of Shock. I'm glad he decided to use his gritty vocals throughout the album, I think his delivery is one of the best things about the record
 
Nite Line;4227130 said:
I’m always fascinated by his changing voice. He sounds like Thriller era in 1984, but starting in 1985, his voice changed. Listen to any song recorded in 1985 to notice the difference.

Michael’s voice also changed between Bad and Dangerous.

Yeah same, it's one thing I love about being an MJ fan is he evolved and moved with the times.

My man Themidwestcowboy hit the nail on the head the other day somewhere, he said that he felt Michael's vocal's we're compromised due to the length and the amount of singing Michael did on the Bad Tour. I totally agree with him, there were parts of Mike's range he struggled with for years after that. I also think it changed his voice a lot after 1989. But again he rolled with it and still an incredible voice
 
Yeah good point mate, I forgot about State Of Shock. I'm glad he decided to use his gritty vocals throughout the album, I think his delivery is one of the best things about the record

A dark song like Smooth Criminal wouldn't work with smooth, gentle vocals. Something like that needs rough and gritty vocals to help fit the tone of the song.
 
I feel it is mentioned a fair bit.

It is unfortunate that Michael's increasing prowess as a vocalist in the studio occurred as his ability to sing live diminished.

I watched a Jacksons performance of Show You The Way To Go yesterday from 1977 and Michael was singing live. It was just the smoothest, most effortless beautiful sounding thing. And I think the earlier adult albums show that in the studio as well. But Michael as a singer came of age with Bad. And he continued to develop his voice as an instrument over the following two albums.
 
I personally love his lower registers! his voice slowly got deeper and deeper.. Of course every era is epic vocally!
 
Some songs were speed up, so his original voice was lower. The way you make me feel for instance was a bit slower at first but they wanted to speed the song because it then had more energy.
 
There were people at that time who spoke about/recognized his vocal evolution between ‘Thriller’ & ‘BAD’.

One example comes from the Smash Hits Poll Winners’ Party which voted him as the Best Male Vocalist for the year 1987 but also for the next year (1988).

But after the completion of his gruelling BAD Tour (in which he sang extensively live), MJ’s voice was never the same. It was beginning to weaken.

His gradual increase of drug substances/medication (especially after August 1993) played also a role in his voice’s deterioration in the subsequent years.

As far as the sped-up of the ‘BAD’ tracks is concerned, this came down to vinyl physical limitations, rather than being a decision for giving a more energetic feeling.

MJ & his studio team decided to cut certain parts (such as, the ‘Smooth Criminal’ extended lyrics), along with the sped-up by 6% of the songs, in order to keep the time duration at around 25 minutes on each vinyl side.

According to sound/cutting engineers (including Bruce Swedien who worked on that album), 25 minutes around on each vinyl side is defined as a time limit for best possible sound quality. After that limit, the more the duration on each vinyl side is, the worse the sound quality becomes.
 
mj_frenzy;4227257 said:
There were people at that time who spoke about/recognized his vocal evolution between ‘Thriller’ & ‘BAD’.

One example comes from the Smash Hits Poll Winners’ Party which voted him as the Best Male Vocalist for the year 1987 but also for the next year (1988).

But after the completion of his gruelling BAD Tour (in which he sang extensively live), MJ’s voice was never the same. It was beginning to weaken.

His gradual increase of drug substances/medication (especially after August 1993) played also a role in his voice’s deterioration in the subsequent years.

As far as the sped-up of the ‘BAD’ tracks is concerned, this came down to vinyl physical limitations, rather than being a decision for giving a more energetic feeling.

MJ & his studio team decided to cut certain parts (such as, the ‘Smooth Criminal’ extended lyrics), along with the sped-up by 6% of the songs, in order to keep the time duration at around 25 minutes on each vinyl side.

According to sound/cutting engineers (including Bruce Swedien who worked on that album), 25 minutes around on each vinyl side is defined as a time limit for best possible sound quality. After that limit, the more the duration on each vinyl side is, the worse the sound quality becomes.

Brad mentioned in his seminar that it was for vinyl limitations as well but for the way you make me feel it had to go faster for the energy of the song.
 
This is really an interesting topic, nice one Smoothcriminal1995!

For instance my jaw nearly dropped when I first heard that he recorded Come Together in 85! So even in 85 he had developed that signature, rough gritty vocal delivery. Mike sang very, very high on the thriller album. Singing with that type of aggressive approach on the thriller album would have been detrimental to his voice I think. imma say something controversial but sometimes I feel like he overdid it with the grittiness but the Bad album had the perfect blend of smoothness and roughness.


Correct me if i’m wrong, but I was under the impression that MJ started to work with Seth on Off The Wall?
 
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I feel it is mentioned a fair bit.

It is unfortunate that Michael's increasing prowess as a vocalist in the studio occurred as his ability to sing live diminished.

I watched a Jacksons performance of Show You The Way To Go yesterday from 1977 and Michael was singing live. It was just the smoothest, most effortless beautiful sounding thing. And I think the earlier adult albums show that in the studio as well. But Michael as a singer came of age with Bad. And he continued to develop his voice as an instrument over the following two albums.

One of my favorite concerts is Destiny Tour from London 1979. Wow, he sounds so clean and so crisp.
 
Themidwestcowboy;4227265 said:
One of my favorite concerts is Destiny Tour from London 1979. Wow, he sounds so clean and so crisp.

Interesting, I always find that show a bit weak by Michael, you could hear that he doesn´t feel good that night. Out of breath and has a struggle to reach certain notes. If I´m not mistaken Michael even mentions his soar throat at the Destiny tour shows in Amsterdam. Listen to Destiny Tour from New Orleans or the Live Album (ofc, the Live album is cut together with the best perfomances) and hear how effortless he sings. Although, have to point out, Destiny and Going Places are my favorite albums when listening to his vocal ability. After Bad a lot happend to his voice and some of it probably is because of lupus.
 
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Themidwestcowboy;4227264 said:
This is really an interesting topic, nice one Smoothcriminal1995!

For instance my jaw nearly dropped when I first heard that he recorded Come Together in 85! So even in 85 he had developed that signature, rough gritty vocal delivery. Mike sang very, very high on the thriller album. Singing with that type of aggressive approach on the thriller album would have been detrimental to his voice I think. imma say something controversial but sometimes I feel like he overdid it with the grittiness but the Bad album had the perfect blend of smoothness and roughness.


Correct me if i’m wrong, but I was under the impression that MJ started to work with Seth on Off The Wall?
He did. Quincy hooked them up to expand Michael's range for some of the songs they wanted to record for OTW.
I think the first post just meant that Seth helped him develop the gritty voice as we know it.
 
OffTheWall1979;4227274 said:
Interesting, I always find that show a bit weak by Michael, you could hear that he doesn´t feel good that night. Out of breath and has a struggle to reach certain notes. If I´m not mistaken Michael even mentions his soar throat at the Destiny tour shows in Amsterdam. Listen to Destiny Tour from New Orleans or the Live Album (ofc, the Live album is cut together with the best perfomances) and hear how effortless he sings. Although, have to point out, Destiny and Going Places are my favorite albums when listening to his vocal ability. After Bad a lot happend to his voice and some of it probably is because of lupus.

There is a roughness actually, just so happened I watched it about an hour ago. But his voice in concert around this time was just so pure.
 
Mike sang very, very high on the thriller album.
I think this is something that is often overlooked when people discuss the vocal change. Michael clearly did start using his gritty style to a greater extent on Bad and beyond, but it's not like there were no signs of it before. And I do not just mean tracks like State of Shock. When you listen to for instance PYT - a track that I think no one would associate with gritty vocals - there is still definitely some grit in there. It's just that it does not really stand out because he's singing so high.

When you merely pitch the vocal down a bit, it starts to sound much more similar to his Bad era stylings:

 
Michael's voice change intentional as some are mentioning for style and getting a 'type' of sound but his actual voice did change.. but his voice did lower over the years which is natural.. as we age our voice gets deeper and also as singers use there voice the way they do it puts strain on the vocal cords so it helps deepening the voice and also makes it easier to get that gritty sound..

So yes. Michael could always get that sound (or similar to). I mean even as a kid he was doing those James brown sounds that pull from that agressive/gritty tone..

Basically his voice and what we heard on record and off was a combo of nature, re inventing the sound 'something new', and PR.
 
Awesome comparison thanks SoCav!!

I just always find this interesting kind of thing interesting with Michael.
I don't know about anyone else but it's just nice to have a real debate on here again about the Michael. Without people arguing or speculating about a new release. Thanks guys
 
His voice always changed throughout his long career. But unlike many his singing voice changed every few years post-puberty which is strange from the age of 20 right up until mid-age.
 
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