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Thread: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

   
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    Default Re: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzball View Post
    What are your sources??
    I already listed a source in the statement you quoted me in. however, generally I go by videos, articles, statements, books, interviews, etc.. that came out during this time period.

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    Default Re: sales

    Quote Originally Posted by DuranDuran View Post
    Doesn't matter what kind of albums they are. If they sold, they sold. A soundtrack and a greatest hits are still albums. If a remix album or a live album was the biggest selling album in history, then that's all that matters. An album of original material makes no difference as far as sales are concerned.
    these things do matter. it's the reason the 'history' album was disqualified from a nomination at the brit awards. it was looked at as a greatest hits - even though there was a separate album of new material. this also affected its sales certifications.

    i'm just using that album as an example. I don't usually discuss anything from that period just so you know.

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    Default Re: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Generally, MJ borrowed a lot of things/ideas from other artists which certainly does not make him the nucleus of many things concerning his art.
    Simply ridiculous.

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    Default Re: sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael's Essence View Post
    these things do matter. it's the reason the 'history' album was disqualified from a nomination at the brit awards. it was looked at as a greatest hits - even though there was a separate album of new material. this also affected its sales certifications.

    i'm just using that album as an example. I don't usually discuss anything from that period just so you know.
    I said they don't matter as far as sales. A sale is a sale. RIAA is voluntary anyway, it's not a requirement for labels to report to them. I don't really care about awards, they don't mean anything. It's just a trophy generally given to popular records and songs. Like Jody Watley got a Best New Artist Grammy when she wasn't a new artist. She was in the group Shalamar. There's other acts who got the same award when they had albums out already (ie. Shelby Lynne). Just because a record sold a lot, got radio airplay to become a hit, or won an award doesn't make it any better than a record that sold little. The radio hits had payola behind them to help make them popular.

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    Default Re: sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael's Essence View Post
    these things do matter. it's the reason the 'history' album was disqualified from a nomination at the brit awards. it was looked at as a greatest hits - even though there was a separate album of new material. this also affected its sales certifications.

    I didn't know that it was disqualified from the Brit Awards because it was seen as a greatest hits album, even though it had an entire disc of new material. It's safe to say that releasing History as a two disc album with one disc of old material was an idiotic decision that not only cost Michael award nominations, but also had a negative impact on the sales of the History album.

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    Default Re: sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite Line View Post
    I didn't know that it was disqualified from the Brit Awards because it was seen as a greatest hits album, even though it had an entire disc of new material. It's safe to say that releasing History as a two disc album with one disc of old material was an idiotic decision that not only cost Michael award nominations, but also had a negative impact on the sales of the History album.
    Absolutely agree, even though I loved the concept of history in the making and disc 1 might be the best compilation of Michael's greatest hits ever - minus the hits post History album, of course. I wonder what the rationale was behind that decision to release it as a double album...

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    Default Re: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael's Essence View Post
    i'm not denying that Michael got help from some very talented people to help him achieve his vision. that being said, it was still *his* vision. many people, quincy included, doubted that 'thriller' would outsell 'off the wall', let alone go on to be the biggest selling album of all time. Michael knew. it had been his dream since he was a child.

    'thriller' the album had already achieved that before the film was even shot (john landis even claims this). it was already the biggest selling studio album by a solo artist (and remains to this day). Motown 25 and 'thriller' the film, definitely contributed to that. yet even without those, he still had the 'billie jean' and 'beat it' videos - which were ground breaking for their time. 'billie jean' broke the colour barrier on mtv, and used state of the art light illusions and split screen effects. 'beat it' used real gang members and shot on location. it had a more linear narrative, and used broadway style choreography previously unseen in this medium, to preach non violence. there *was* a message. it was more of a mini movie this time. the red zipper jacket took on a life of its own. that song, along with the others that Michael wrote, were already vivid in imagery, so the directors (that Michael himself sought out, except for steve barron) had plenty to work with. 'billie jean' has one of the most recognised basslines in pop music. 'wanna be startin' somethin' among other things, is famous for the funny lyrics and chant. that, along with 'human nature', are some of his most performed songs of his career - live I might add! they didn't even have videos. people attended the 'victory' to tour to see those songs (along with the rest of the album).

    Michael was the nucleus of all of this. who else had the range and passion to sing those songs convincingly? who else could develop their own move set, and integrate it with past and present dance styles the way he did? the curls, the clothes, the make up, the vocal ticks.. these were all ongoing if you pay attention to his evolution... he did not arrive with 'thriller'. the Jackson 5 were already global superstars, who had cartoon and variety shows. they performed for royalty, and toured the world twice over. Michael had done a movie, wrote solo songs, and set a record for 4 top 10 singles from one album ('off the wall'). he paid his dues. 'thriller' was the bonus. to act as if Michael was an interchangeable puppet in an assembly line is a false insult.


    many fans may take all this for granted, but without it, what came after would not exist today. at least give it that much respect.
    FACTS! Thank you for speaking the truth! It is irritating, to say the least, to read anything contrary to what you wrote about Michael's input and contribution to his OWN art on a Michael Jackson forum. There are not enough face palm emojis in the world for comments that try desperately to deny Michael Jackson's ownership of his legacy.

    There was no one like Michael Jackson before Michael Jackson and there has not been since. The musicians, producers, directors and choreographers Michael worked with throughout his unparalleled career have worked with others too. Why, if they are what made Michael, have they not produced a second Michael Jackson? It is historical record that Michael Jackson crafted his career, it is an indisputable fact that he was a visionary and an innovator in the field of (highest quality) entertainment, if ever there was one. I won't bother enumerating his accomplishments. Michael himself knew he was 'second to none'. It was Michael, btw, who pushed those he worked with to be better at what they were doing. That is also fact.

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    Default Re: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

    Quote Originally Posted by wednesday View Post
    FACTS! Thank you for speaking the truth! It is irritating, to say the least, to read anything contrary to what you wrote about Michael's input and contribution to his OWN art on a Michael Jackson forum. There are not enough face palm emojis in the world for comments that try desperately to deny Michael Jackson's ownership of his legacy.

    There was no one like Michael Jackson before Michael Jackson and there has not been since. The musicians, producers, directors and choreographers Michael worked with throughout his unparalleled career have worked with others too. Why, if they are what made Michael, have they not produced a second Michael Jackson? It is historical record that Michael Jackson crafted his career, it is an indisputable fact that he was a visionary and an innovator in the field of (highest quality) entertainment, if ever there was one. I won't bother enumerating his accomplishments. Michael himself knew he was 'second to none'. It was Michael, btw, who pushed those he worked with to be better at what they were doing. That is also fact.
    Typical delusional post that lacks any real value in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael's Essence View Post
    'Saturday night fever' was a various artists soundtrack album. the eagles was a greatest hits album. it was unfair for them to be in competition. the book 'Michael!' by mark bego released in 1983, states that 'thriller' the film was planned to be released as a bonus 'thank you' to the fans. the campaign was already hugely successful, and Michael was originally going to work on a 'peter pan' movie with steven speilberg instead. I trust sources that were available when these events took place. I don't trust anything that came out post 2009, where people can re-write history to remove Michael's input from his own work. that includes quincy. that book 'making michael' does not appeal to me for this reason. the title says it all..


    hall & oats even admitted that they didn't hear the bassline of their song on 'billie jean' (I didn't either). you left that part out.. to me, the only song that sounds similar to billie jean, that was released before it, was 'stayin' alive' by the bee-gee's. even then, there are differences in chord progression and storyline.


    no, Michael didn't write 'human nature'. yet if you listen to the first take recordings, he added the 'why-oh-why's' on the bridge - which were crucial, and sampled by the group swv.

    is Michael really expected to be a sound engineer, lighting technician, film director, etc..to be taken seriously? do you really think that quincy, bruce, and john could achieve the same success with the project had Michael been replaced by a random? you know what my answer is.. I defend Michael's earlier work (especially 'thriller') because I see too many people take it for granted, detract from it, and ignore the artistic growth that led him to be great in the first place.
    Let me say that you continue to fill you posts with inaccuracies & false information that can mislead fans here.

    For instance:

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael's Essence View Post
    the book 'Michael!' by mark bego released in 1983, states that 'thriller' the film was planned to be released as a bonus 'thank you' to the fans.
    The ‘Thriller’ video was not planned at all as a bonus ‘thank you’ to his fans. That is utterly untrue!

    It was Frank Dileo’s idea who first suggested & pressed MJ shooting the ‘Thriller’ video when MJ asked him what video they should release next in order for the album to revive sales & climb up again on charts (after being surpassed on charts by the ‘Synchronicity’ album by the English band Police).

    … It’s simple - all you’ve got to do is dance, sing, and make it scary…” (Frank Dileo)

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael's Essence View Post
    hall & oats even admitted that they didn't hear the bassline of their song on 'billie jean' (I didn't either). you left that part out.. to me, the only song that sounds similar to billie jean, that was released before it, was 'stayin' alive' by the bee-gee's. even then, there are differences in chord progression and storyline.
    Daryl Hall has already revealed that the bass line of ‘Billie Jean’ was taken from ‘I Can't Go For That (No Can Do)’.

    MJ admitted that to him during the recording sessions of ‘We Are The World’, but Hall did not really mind that MJ’s borrowing at that time.

    There is no point in trying to deny that, too.

    Also, the drum pattern of ‘Billie Jean’ is almost identical to the one of ‘Another One Bites The Dust’ from Queen, which was released two years earlier in 1980.

    One might call it a coincidence, but it sounds like another borrowing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael's Essence View Post
    I already listed a source in the statement you quoted me in. however, generally I go by videos, articles, statements, books, interviews, etc.. that came out during this time period.
    Not trusting anything that came out post 2009 is a nihilistic stance.

    Judging events after a distant period of time can be a better way to understand clearly & in an unbiased way what really happened back then.

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    Default Re: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

    All just a big case of “he said, she said”. Wanting to take credit for the biggest thing in the history of music is going to happen by all involved.

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    Default Re: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Also, the drum pattern of ‘Billie Jean’ is almost identical to the one of ‘Another One Bites The Dust’ from Queen, which was released two years earlier in 1980.
    Oh, really? Drum pattern of Billie Jean is just simple money beat, the most simple beat. it's nothing innovative in Billie Jean drum pattern, neither Michael nor Queen invented this. Nothing to steal/borrow.

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    Default Re: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

    Quote Originally Posted by wednesday View Post
    FACTS! Thank you for speaking the truth! It is irritating, to say the least, to read anything contrary to what you wrote about Michael's input and contribution to his OWN art on a Michael Jackson forum. There are not enough face palm emojis in the world for comments that try desperately to deny Michael Jackson's ownership of his legacy.

    There was no one like Michael Jackson before Michael Jackson and there has not been since. The musicians, producers, directors and choreographers Michael worked with throughout his unparalleled career have worked with others too. Why, if they are what made Michael, have they not produced a second Michael Jackson? It is historical record that Michael Jackson crafted his career, it is an indisputable fact that he was a visionary and an innovator in the field of (highest quality) entertainment, if ever there was one. I won't bother enumerating his accomplishments. Michael himself knew he was 'second to none'. It was Michael, btw, who pushed those he worked with to be better at what they were doing. That is also fact.
    thank you so much! I thought I was the crazy lone voice for a moment there! i'm used to having to defend Michael's artistry and legacy. didn't think i'd have to do it on a fansite it's been a draining and heart breaking experience.

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    Default Re: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Typical delusional post that lacks any real value in it.
    you lost me here. take care

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    Default Re: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

    what's done is done..


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    Default Re: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael's Essence View Post
    thank you so much! I thought I was the crazy lone voice for a moment there! i'm used to having to defend Michael's artistry and legacy. didn't think i'd have to do it on a fansite it's been a draining and heart breaking experience.
    One more, final comment:

    Having to defend MJ’s artistry & legacy is fine when one uses verified facts to back up that defence.

    But having to defend MJ’s artistry & legacy by using myths & false information is a completely different thing.

    Like the myth about the ‘Thriller’ video being planned as a bonus ‘thank you’ to his fans.

    You seem to be very selective when it comes to your sources, meaning you keep the favourable ones while blindly dismissing the unfavourable ones.

    Also, rejecting a book judging only by the title of it (‘Making Michael’), shows the superficial way of your research.

    That is definitely not a proper way when you want to evaluate one’s career/art.

    Anyway, I am sure most fans here are interested in reading the real events about MJ, rather than reading delusional posts empty of any real value in them.

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    Default Re: If Billie Jean hadn't been released on the Thriller album

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael's Essence View Post
    thank you so much! I thought I was the crazy lone voice for a moment there! i'm used to having to defend Michael's artistry and legacy. didn't think i'd have to do it on a fansite it's been a draining and heart breaking experience.
    You are so not alone in your opinion. On the contrary. This is the majority opinion on Michael Jackson. It disappoints me too that not more fans join us in defense of it. I can only assume they are tired of it. Don't let it demoralize you!

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