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Thread: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

   
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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    This is indeed a 'wonderful' thread but can I say somewhat 'dark' :pirate: I don't think Michael found 'true love' as she would have been there in his 'last hour'

    8 years later it still breaks my heart that probs Michael only 'quenched' his 'desire' to find 'true love' in his songs! The most 'Beautiful' love songs ever really!
    We can only 'fantasize' that t was cause of his fame or the 'evil' people he was surrounded with but yeah I can only 'wonder' if Michael had found 'love in the dark' maybe... just maybe he would still be here as she would have been there in his 'darkest' hour.

    It just makes me think of my late Dad. He had found 'true love' as we were there in his 'last hour'

    Soz for this reply but that is how I feel when the thread asks "Did MJ find Love in the dark? " or I could just have said
    "Nah, he sadly didn't and that is ONE of the reasons WHY we lost him TOO SOON" :busted:


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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    I had actually forgotten about this thread. Thanks for the reminder guys

    As far as the question of the thread is concerned - who knows really? Only Michael could have answered that one, only him..........but it is a lovely hope beyond all hope to believe that he did. Otherwise, it would all be soooo terribly unfair.

    And btw of the question in the title of the thread - does it even matter where he found love, just as long as he had - in the dark, in the shadows, in the light, wherever. Plus, the whole dark business doesn't sound all that grand, does it? It just sounds........dark, for lack of a better word lol.

    It would indeed be very sad if what Daz said was right - that the climax of his romantic life was found only in his songs. For someone soooo talented and who had been lonely for so much of his life, it would be terrible if all he did was singing and dreaming away about surreal joy without the personal experience to back him up and personally involve him. He would have been just like a master chef cooking amazing sweets and treats that everyone else gets to enjoy, while he doesn't get to taste any of it for himself. His songs after all are favorites among wedding organizers and some of them have even joined Barry White and Prince playlists for quality private times :P

    One can only hope that the darkness of his life wasn't so dense and strong not to allow the light and joy of true love to make their permanent dwelling in his heart. Otherwise, it is very sad to think that he left this world without experiencing that most amazing, yet most elusive among all adult accomplishments - the building of a solid, deep and life-long connection between woman and man. But then again, it is quite logical to think that if he had found that truly special someONE in time, Michael would still be very much alive today..........
    Last edited by Girl; 29-04-2017 at 09:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    I always thought the reference to "dark" in the song title and in the original thoughts in this thread meant one of two things (and possibly both at the same time), and they are, one,

    that like the initial meeting and friendship between Elliot and E.T. it began at nighttime when it was physically dark, and maybe just possibly, so it did with MJ and some girl, and, two,

    like for as long as possible with Elliot and E.T. it was kept a secret (using that meaning of "in the darK" as well) so perhaps it was for MJ and this girl. The thread discussed the possibility that Mj gave hints of this special friendship/love in his lyrics so he would have a way to express his feelings about it without full on revealing the secret or bringing it completely "out of the dark"...and of course, have some nice lyrics to fill his love songs with in the bargain. He was a song writer who wanted to write good songs with good lyrics that his fans would enjoy. Don't you think?

    The song for the E.T. storybook is about a long awaited friendship between a little boy, who just needed a special friend, and an alien/stranger who, while feeling so alone in a strange place, just needed a special friend.

    This thread explored the possibility that MJ kept secret a long awaited and yearned for friendship of his own with some gal who he happened upon at some point in his life who was "a stranger". Did he literally first set eyes on her when it was night and dark outside? Who knows.

    A special friend might mean a special friendship or one that is unique and not the norm. It might not have been romantic at all and her role may not have been one at the end of his life where she would be right there by him and able to help. He may have even taken pains to protect her and kept her away. Again, who knows?

    And, he maybe didn't require a love romance/affair that most would picture and what would be personally fulfilling for them. He might have been just happy knowing she was out there somewhere having her thoughts pointing towards him, like E.T. towards Elliot even after he went back to his home planet.

    Mj's life was often so so very complicated and busy and infested by not nice people making his life difficult and filling his time, he maybe would have had difficulty making some romantic relationship really work. His mind also was so often occupied with being creative, or with spiritual and deep things.

    There have been accounts by some of his freinds that have said they would be having a conversation with him and suddenly he'd be "gone" with his mind far off from them. That's the mind of a creative genious, no doubt about that, and yet probably not the mind of someone who would feel "there" to a woman who was trying to maintain a close, intimate, romantic relationship with him. So, maybe that wasn't what was supposed to be for MJ. However maybe for him having a special friend somewhere out there might have worked better for him. And maybe writing the romantic love songs filled a need both creatively for him and maybe even in some way emotionally, because in his imagination/fantasy he got to play out the love affair in a way. Maybe after a little of that he'd be good and off lost in activity the kind that would stimulate his mind and spirit.

    This thread always was suggesting that he wrote his love songs with someone, or a handfull of ladies, in mind. That's so commonly done even with song writers today. Everyone is always trying to figure out if the latest song by someone is about the person the individual is or was dating. I'm sure every interview Harry Styles, for example, will be facing at this time surrounding his new album release will be attempts to get that kind of information out of him. It's natural to pull from one's own life. So MJ might have pulled ladies from his real life to be muses for a song or two, but depict things in his songs that were more from his romantic fantasies in regards to the lady.

    Consider the song, The Way You Love Me: he sings, "I like the way that you're holding me, ...loving me, touching me", etc... and then adds, "You'll see" which indicates the future, that he hasn't held her yet, or any of those other romantic things, but he is dreaming about when he will and is putting it in a song.

    These are the kind of things this thread would talk about. Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by Lisha; 04-05-2017 at 10:26 PM.
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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    I agree , it's so sad and grim really to think that Michael only found 'true love' in the fantasy of a song
    One can fret and say we weren't there and we are just guessing. If he had someone that truly madly deeply loved him then he would be here! :cheeky:

    I know, I speak out of own experience as a 'single' creative person we are not 'easy' to love cause we can't 'numb' ourselves in this world :busted: We are like 'slaves' to our Muses lol and a 'marriage' or a 'true love' would be possible if the other half understood our need to create and and live for our creativity but that is quite a 'burden' we throw upon the one that loves us, right!


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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    Yes, Daryll748, you do seem to understand from a personal place the challenges. Thanks for sharing.

    I do want to add that I no way wish to imply MJ didn't have dating relationships all through his life. I think he dated many. There has been enough to indicate that Mj enjoyed holding, kissing, carressing, etc, women and enjoyed female company very much. So I am not saying he -only- had a fantasy life regarding women. I think he had many real life experiences. Yet I do not think he wanted a lot of the time for those dating relationships to get all that serious. The girls might have hoped that, I suppose much of the time...MJ had that kind of effect on females, right? haha.

    But in regards to one or two, maybe more, women who actually knocked him off of his feet to the point he felt he would like to fall in love with them and actually marry, I think the small handful of those women became the subjects of his love songs, and in those songs he sometimes imagined what it would be like to be with them because relationsips with them may not have been realized, or at least not to his satisfaction....the only exception, of course, being Lisa Marie, who he dated and sincerely fell for and got to marry. And when asked about it towards the beginning of the marriage how things were going, he replied, "Quite joyous so far." So we can be happy for him that he did get to experience that for a while, any way. (I've always thought Break of Dawn might have been about her).

    But I would have to agree that he probably didn't have a real life deep close romantic relationship with someone special at the time he passed. He might have been dating a few gals though, lol.
    Last edited by Lisha; 10-05-2017 at 01:03 AM.
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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    I don't know if this is a right thread to place, but this is so funny, really



    I wonder why he never did some comedy movies.

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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    Now I came across and watched korean science fiction series (they call it suspense drama or so) "W - Two Worlds". Is about "Is it possible to live in the same place at the same time but in a completely different dimension? " The interesting thing is that one world there is real and another one is a world of a comic book. Can't share a link as I watched it translated into other than english language (it was normal translation, not subtitles, so I could watch). I enjoyed the film, I hope someone will also do.

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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    Daryll748 my heart goes out to you, as with Summer with a similar experience. i would like to submit I think that we tend to look at life through a generally different set of 'filters' than MJ because our lives (nor anyone else's life really) equates to the frames of reference that MJ had for everything in life.


    I feel that its significant that MJ was, not only one who lived outside the box, he also pretty much eliminated the box and his life was more like, 'what box'? He was outside, period, of every 'box' and his frames of reference would be different than the way we see due to our own frames of reference? so when we say how it 'should' have been, could we possibly be in a position to be considering every and all possible factors in the inner and outer worlds of MJ.

    And I'd imagine probably so were his unique and special experiences outside the box as well, experiences of love (which he said is a feeling so that means only he would know the answer to whether he found it?) as everything else in his life. I do wish she could have been with him to help him fight. I guess that would be his 'other half' because I think he did tell Geraldo that he is a warrior.

    But because of the box MJ does not live inxside of, ''love in the dark'' could have more than one meaning for him to have about it and whether he himself considered himself to have 'found' it.

    Maybe he wanted to fight his fights alone like how many people do when they have 'issues' they don't invite the other party to be a part of.

    Don't know if this all makes sense
    Last edited by SoS; 26-12-2017 at 08:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by SoS View Post

    Maybe he wanted to fight his fights alone like how many people do when they have 'issues' they don't invite the other party to be a part of.

    Don't know if this all makes sense
    I would think she would be very grateful to him for not wanting to pull her into that hard fight he was facing, or the issues. I'm not sure there is anything that feels more like love from another than when they will do anything they can to protect you. I know that makes me feel loved any way. I would think he would have wished to protect her from the media, and from so many ugly-hearted opportunists and users, and maybe even a few of his more unreasonable family members. Maybe he purposely didn't pull her in because he was worried about what it all would do to her. Maybe she was a sensitive soul. And, of course, we must always end with the line...

    that is if she does exist! haha.

    This thread doesn't get much traffic anymore.
    Last edited by Lisha; 28-12-2017 at 07:11 PM. Reason: change "fell" to "feel". whoops.
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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisha View Post
    I would think she would be very grateful to him for not wanting to pull her into that hard fight he was facing, or the issues. I'm not sure there is anything that feels more like love from another than when they will do anything they can to protect you. I know that makes me fell loved any way. I would think he would have wished to protect her from the media, and from so many ugly-hearted opportunists and users, and maybe even a few of his more unreasonable family members. Maybe he purposely didn't pull her in because he was worried about what it all would do to her. Maybe she was a sensitive soul. And, of course, we must always end with the line...

    that is if she does exist! haha.

    This thread doesn't get much traffic anymore.
    Those are such lovely words and thoughts about what it feels like to be, and feel protected as the essence of Michael Jackson's aura is one of, 'safe' if nothing else.

    Reminds me of when I was younger and the guys always wanted to show me their shiney new sports car, and more than once, my dad had to put his arm up to the door and say, ''don't go out there'' when the guy was up to no good. You know dads. So you may be right, perhaps "Daddy Michael" (as this is what he forever is to so many people) was intentionally protecting her. I was thinking just he let her be and waiting upon the most high but that's my version, one alternate anyway ...being that this is in fan fiction....so yes, I guess it goes without saying in fact but will anyway, if there is a she.

    Yes its a slow mover now but at least the thread is fun to add to here and there and read like a sort of musical story book and the love that it amplifies is always uplifting.

    Someone may come along three or four days, weeks, months from now and add some interpretations of their own or something
    to watch or listen to, and I agree with everyone who feels the sadness of the ending of MJ ending up alone, who would have ever expected that, however, I'm glad the thread is still here. At least we get to focus in on whatever he may have been saying in song.
    Last edited by SoS; 28-12-2017 at 07:10 AM. Reason: sense

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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by SoS View Post
    Maybe he wanted to fight his fights alone like how many people do when they have 'issues' they don't invite the other party to be a part of. Don't know if this all makes sense
    I don't think you are right, because there is this song:

    Will you be there Songtext
    Hold Me
    Like The River Jordan
    And I will then say to Thee
    You are my friend.

    Carry me
    Like you are my brother
    Love me like a mother
    Will you be there?

    Weary
    Tell me will you hold me
    When wrong, will you scold me
    When lost will you find me?

    But they told me
    A man should be faithful
    And walk when not able
    And fight till the end
    But I'm only human.

    Everyone's taking control of me
    Seems that the world's
    Got a role for me
    I'm so confused
    Will you show to me
    You'll be there for me
    And care enough to bear me

    (Hold Me)
    Show me
    (Lay Your Head Lowly)
    Told me
    (Softly Then Boldly)
    Yeah
    (Carry Me There)
    I'm only human

    (Lead Me)
    Hold me
    (Love Me And Feed Me)
    Yeah yeah
    (Kiss Me And Free Me)
    Yeah
    (I Will Feel Blessed)
    I'm Only Human

    (Carry)
    Carry
    (Carry Me Boldly)
    Carry yeah
    (Lift Me Up Slowly)
    Yeah
    (Carry Me There)
    I'm Only Human

    (Save Me)
    Lead me
    (Heal Me And Bathe Me)
    Lift me up, lift me up
    (Softly You Say To Me)
    (I Will Be There)
    I will be there

    (Lift Me)
    Told me yeah
    (Lift Me Up Slowly)
    (Carry Me Boldly)
    Yeah
    (Show Me You Care)
    Will you be there

    (Hold Me)
    Whoooo
    (Lay Your Head Lowly)
    I get lonely some times
    (Softly Then Boldly)
    I get lonely yeah yeah
    (Carry Me There)
    Will you be there

    (Lead me)
    Whoo
    (Love me and feed me)
    Lift me up
    Hold me up
    (Kiss me and free me) Lift me up sometimes
    oh sometimes
    (I will feel blessed)
    Yeah

    In our darkest hour,
    In my deepest despair,
    Will you still care?
    Will you be there?
    In my trials,
    And my tribulations;
    Through our doubts,
    And frustrations;
    In my violence,
    In my turbulence,
    Through my fear,
    And my confessions;
    In my anguish and my pain,
    Through my joy and my sorrow,
    In the promise of another tomorrow,
    I'll never let you part,
    For You're Always... In My Heart

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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    After MJ went away I started noting musicians who went away too early or at the age of 50 or so. And it seems there are many. Another one I have found was kasakh musician Batyr (1962—2015) who sang both in russian and in his native language, went away at the age of 52 from a heart attack. He looks a bit like Cisco Ramon from Flash series. Some of his songs:








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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by SoS View Post
    Daryll748 my heart goes out to you, as with Summer with a similar experience. i would like to submit I think that we tend to look at life through a generally different set of 'filters' than MJ because our lives (nor anyone else's life really) equates to the frames of reference that MJ had for everything in life.


    I feel that its significant that MJ was, not only one who lived outside the box, he also pretty much eliminated the box and his life was more like, 'what box'? He was outside, period, of every 'box' and his frames of reference would be different than the way we see due to our own frames of reference? so when we say how it 'should' have been, could we possibly be in a position to be considering every and all possible factors in the inner and outer worlds of MJ.

    And I'd imagine probably so were his unique and special experiences outside the box as well, experiences of love (which he said is a feeling so that means only he would know the answer to whether he found it?) as everything else in his life. I do wish she could have been with him to help him fight. I guess that would be his 'other half' because I think he did tell Geraldo that he is a warrior.

    But because of the box MJ does not live inxside of, ''love in the dark'' could have more than one meaning for him to have about it and whether he himself considered himself to have 'found' it.

    Maybe he wanted to fight his fights alone like how many people do when they have 'issues' they don't invite the other party to be a part of.

    Don't know if this all makes sense
    why Have I just bumped on here lol but yeah indeed as I said before creative people need that space and need that box free life or else we feel suffocated somehow if we are pushed into that ‘mundane’ kinda life.

    I so wished he’d found someone that would be there for him in his darkest hour but that is just the thing you know. Some find it too daunting and just abandon you.

    I also can can relate to the ‘fight my battles alone’ thing as I once told an ex boyfriend that I wasn’t worthy somehow that he needed to find someone who would be there for him at all cost and I am just tied up somehow. I think it’s some form of protection to want to fight your battles alone though. Either it’s to protect the other one or yourself from any hurt. Fear of bonding shrinks call it lol
    I however call it I don’t want to be rejected anymore as the issues you’re fighting with are not always understood and mocked at so you withdrawn then.

    Then again, if I would have been Lisa or the girl he fell in love with. I wouldn’t have let him go no matter how much he’d withdrawn in his shell I would just have wriggled my way in no matter what as I think that is true love somehow or as the vow says ‘for better or for worse’ silly words to come from someone who remains ‘single’ lol


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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    addition to my post from 30-04-2018 - found some more videos, maybe someone will enjoy.











    Last edited by Magicgirl; 12-05-2018 at 04:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

    I will try to explain what I meant in my last. I hope you book readers and non book lovers can endure this blindingly long text. Its been a long time since giving myself the treat of this "escapism".

    I do agree with you MagicGirl and with this example you use from the song, WYBT very, very much. In fact I feel the exact same whenever I hear that song and for that reason it is one of the most difficult songs to listen to without feelings of breakdown to cry.

    I guess what I'm saying though is that the song Will You Be There is a song that has as it's title, the form of a question, similar in that way to, Who Is It.

    Using Who Is It as an example for a moment, I would point to the fact that just because the title asks a question does not mean (necessarily) that the answer to the title/question is found within the other parts of the song where he is also asking other questions.

    The fact that he asks so many other questions within the song indicates to me that he is moreso asking all those other questions as an attempt at trying to figure out the answer to the one question in the song title for instance in Who Is It, which in itself is a foregone conclusion to jump to where he first of all asks that question Who Is It when there is no evidence to support that premise to begin with -- at all - as indicated by lyrics.

    He then goes on to suggest who "it" may be by asking questions like, "is it my brother", "is it a friend...' etc. when in actuality the only facts that he mentions that he knows for sure about her disappearance are that, 1. she. didn't leave a letter and 2. she just up and ran away. Those are the only 2 facts of the matter in the entire song relative to her disappearance. 1. No letter. 2. Ran away. All the other questions are sheer explorations as he searches his mind to try and figure out the reason for only those two facts. 1. Why no letter. 2. Why she ran off. Period. Everything else is his extra thoughts about it. What he does not explore in the song are other reasons a person could have to, 1. Write no letter. 2. Take off running.

    For Example, "no letter" could be because there was not time to contemplate a letter say for instance being surprised by something she may have reacted or overreacted to, which could lead to why she (or anyone) would up and leave in a hurry or sometimes the lower emotions of either fear or even shame could be possible motivators for a person to suddenly choose to "run" so then if any of those sorts of things were at play, then the answer to his question of Who Is It, is Nobody. It wasn't a "promise so untrue" or "a lie" as other songs suggests, maybe she has a reason to feel disappointment or discouragement, in other words, maybe it was simply her own pain which he was out of tune with because of his own pain. He gave his money ("I gave my money") and he invested time in her ("I gave her time") and everything his heart held for her (I gave her everything inside one heart could find) yes he was coming to her from a deep, true place ("I gave her passion") and that oneness of being ("my very soul") but the one thing he could not give her was attunment to whatever it was that "she" was actually going through which had absolutely nothing to do with him per se.

    We know this because his theories about why she did what she did range all the way from her being a low-life, low-down, NO GOOD CHEAT (his brother??!??? his friend??!??) to a calloused liar who all of a sudden doesn't give a damn ('a promise so untrue")....(..."..it doesn't seem to matter") well...all she did was left real fast without a letter ok? Not saying those things are great just saying that ON THEIR OWN those 2 FACTS do not MEAN "xyz" ON THEIR OWN. As any man in show biz, he he he quite naturally was concerned about his "investment"...his time...his money he he he HIM. What about "HER" what about "HER" needs. Could that be a CLUE to what "she" felt? just asking ok? Someone has to speak for the poor "gal"

    ok so...

    Similarly, Will You Be There is also a question, right ? so when he tells her (if this song is indeed to/about some gal we call "her") he begins the song by stating his need to be "held" ("hold me") in a deep,spiritually true place within her ("like the river Jordan") and then he would trust "her" deep caring for him (I will THEN say. .you are my friend")....and on it goes about him and his needs and as we all know, he obviously had many legitimate needs.

    Also granted, Michael had a lot of expectations pressing in on him and those awful charlatans in his life always trying to manipulate him ("I think that the world's got a role for me I'm so confused..") which totally 100% utterly explains his needs of her true support, love and friendship...it's just that the entire song is solely about "her" meeting ALL these very intense needs of HIS

    and yes (since we've been using the bible as the baseline of their spiritual connection, probably because of the values MJ -- her spiritual "head" or leader, was raised with) -- yes, the woman was put here for the sake of the man to be his helpmeet, and yes they are eachOTHER's "other" half...

    however......the bible does also say that the husband is to treat his wife as his own body.. in WYBT the only time (I believe??) that"she" is acknowledged in the "list" of experiences with him other than meeting all his very complex needs (which I don't believe she'd mind if she were able) is where he says, "through OUR doubts and frustrations" which I submit would have to be at the core of such a complex relationship...which even with all the true love they share in, within their spiritual connection and all the ideals that being together should have had to bring them together...the fact was.. there were stops.. starts.. doubts...frustrations...and yes love.. albeit "in the dark"

    the dark being the doubts perhaps that these two very different lives of theirs could "work" in 3-D and the frustrations in all the baggage they each had to unpack, each on their own where the other is not asked in all actuality to sort through....which each did not want t h e other to actually have to go thru because it is NOT a "regular love" where people are able to "be There" for eachother in the traditional sense.

    . Contrary to what some believe the truth is that protection and growing on one's own is also is a true expression of love as well and perhaps as Lisha said, perhaps having this distant, complex, fantasy was perfection for them in it's own way. Perhaps that is why MJ said, "I like living this way, I like lovin this way".

    I realize MJ didn't write HN...but still... it fits the theme of the "love story" very well and it is his song.

    I promise to do my best to come back to edit errors, sentence structure etc. Thanks for reading all this if you did <3

    P.S. For those who's first language is not English (or if it is) and something of this is not clear, please feel free to ASK me about it. Thanks again for reading if you did.
    Last edited by SoS; 26-05-2018 at 08:07 AM.

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