Talkbox/Vocoder thread

DuranDuran

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Talkbox
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The talkbox was originally developed to add a wah-wah effect to a guitar by directing guitar talkbox sound to the mouth through a plastic tube. The mouth acts as a filter and changing the shape of the mouth results in a wah type effect.

When talkbox was first released, it was called by various names such as voice box, talking modulator, mouth tube, or a mouth wah. It is said the name “talkbox” was standardized by Roger Troutman of ZAPP, one of the key persons in funk talkbox history.

The very first talkbox to go out on market is said to be Kustom Electronics' “The Bag,” released in 1969. Its appearance is just like a water bottle in a bag, but this triggered other manufacturers such as Jim Dunlop and Electro Harmonix to start manufacturing talkboxes.

Talkboxers in Funk, R&B and Hip Hop music explored different techniques and performed on synthesizers in place of guitars so it can produce a wide variety of sounds. Stevie Wonder is said to be the first musician who performed the talkbox on the synthesizer. His performance can be viewed on You Tube. Roger Troutman took this to a further level and established his own distinct style. His performance can also be viewed on You Tube. Roger Troutman has made a powerful impact on talkboxers today.

Vocoder
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Invented by a Bell Labs whiz named Homer Dudley to improve telephone service in the 1940s, the vocoder broke speech patterns into components, allowing them to be re-transmitted efficiently over a narrow bandwidth.

The unsung Dudley was a pioneer in figuring out how to synthesize sounds and quickly ascertained the vocoder (or voice coder) possessed a creative potential far beyond the transmission of phone calls. In fact, the device proved to be of crucial importance World War II, scrambling transoceanic conversations between Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Winston Churchill.

In 1971, the vocoder entered the pop culture mainstream when Kubrick invited composer Wendy Carlos to score the music to his controversial adaptation of Anthony Burgess' A Clockwork Orange. Employing a vocoder to "sing" on "Timesteps," Carlos produced a classic of early electronic music.

In the years since the vocoder has leant atmospheric touches and a futuristic ambience to a bevy of songs, including Laurie Anderson ("O Superman!"), Kraftwerk ("We Are the Robots") the Beastie Boys ("Intergalactic"). The vocoder's popularity somehow seems fitting. Its trance-like effect has elements of human warmth but also a decidedly metallic tone. A product of the communications revolution, the vocoder has become a perfect fit for artists seeking a "new millennium" sound.

Sonovox

Incredibly, a precurser to the Vocoder was invented back in the mid-Thirties. The Sonovox used small speakers attached to the singer's throat that were patched through music instruments - horns, guitars, etc. The singer mouthed the words of a song, and by changing the shape of the mouth and position of the tongue, changed the sound of the instrument. It created a pretty weird robot-voice-like effect.

Musicians in the '30s and '40s didn't really know what to do with it, so it was usually used on children's records.

Difference between a Talkbox and a Vocoder

Since talkbox creates sound that is somewhat mechanic compared to a human voice, some people may confuse it as a vocoder. Vocoder's structure and sound differs completely from a talkbox. In a vocoder, human voice and synthesizer signals are respectively directed through 10 to 20 band-path filters and envelope followers to analyze the human voice and reproduce the modifying amplitude by each bandwidth frequency. Talkbox and Vocoder are similar in a sense that it both filters a synthesizer, but band-path filters are used in a vocoder where the actual mouth is used in a talkbox. Therefore, a more precise pronunciation is possible with a talkbox.
 
Sonovox
Kay Kyser ~ 1940

Talkbox {keyboard}
Stevie Wonder ~ 1973

Talkbox {guitar}
Joe Walsh ~ 1973 (start about 3:12)

Vocoder
Midnight Star ~ 1983
 
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lol in defence of the "T-Pain effect"...
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unfortunately it seems that's what all these effects will come under nowadays.

Stevie's use here goes without saying, as well as other 'pioneers' like Troutman. i also kind of like how Teddy Riley used it in the style of Chris Jasper/Quiet Storm moog lead lines (a la For The Love Of You) blending it in with the melody, as a typical bluesy lick. but he milked it too much for my taste.

my favourite use of it is in underground Dance music (specifically US and then UK Garage). cats like Todd Edwards who used to sing into the vocoder (or feed through prerecorded vocals) then intricately chop the results up and use it as a rhythm section that drives the whole song. much more creative than just 'making your voice sound weird'.

Todd Edwards - Far Away


and some of his followers:

Groove Connection - Club Lonely (Dem 2 Dub Mix)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE-jqahClOE

Daft Punk + Todd Edwards - Face To Face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkN-AC_JiIU

Daft Punk - Digital Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxzBvqY5PP0

Daft Punk - Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cYWfq--Nw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjxf9gn-xoM (Neptunes Remix)


classic:

Zapp & Roger - So Rough, So Tough (Live)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARVWndtOk00
 
i'm all for anything that continues to develop the sound of music and that helps keep egos in check. i think these inventions do that. i don't understand what the backlash is against artists like tpain and such..whereas no part of music is going to suffer or diminish because of this inventions. there will still be singers....but there will also be this invention.

and..besides, there's nothing illegal about making money musically using this instrument. to hear some of the complaints against it, you would think it was illegal. lol
 
My favorite use of the talkbox by Stevie is actually when it's less pronounced. There's a song from his most recent album, A Time To Love. It's called "Please Don't Hurt My Baby" and it's used mostly in the backing vocals so you don't notice it too much unless you're listening for it.

Of course, the master, Roger Troutman, has several tracks that I love where he really shows how to use the talkbox. "Heartbreaker" and a cover of Lionel Richie's "Easy" are really good. Traditionally, you don't talk when you are using the talkbox, but use your mouth to form the sound. On "Easy", it sounds as if he may be singing the "Aaaah, aaah, aaahs" in the chorus while simultaneously using the talkbox. Or maybe it's just layering, I'm not sure. It sounds great though.

I'm half tempted to take up piano lessons just to learn to play it.
 
top class production from another micro-vocoding/micro-sampling disciple, Akufen:

Craig David - What's Your Flava (Akufen Remix)



Akufen - My Way


Akufen - Jeep Sex


this guy's to Todd Edwards what Mike is to JB.


William said:
i'm all for anything that continues to develop the sound of music and that helps keep egos in check. i think these inventions do that. i don't understand what the backlash is against artists like tpain and such..
but what T-Pain does is no invention or development - he's taking something that was used subtely as an instrument before and milked it beyond belief as his trademark singing voice - and here i was thinking that T. Riley overused it.

but with pitch-processing like Autotune, at least T-Pain is transparent about it. as for keeping egos in check, the problem is Autotune and the like have opened up a wave of successful pretty-faces-with-no-voices that are clogging up the commercial waves (see Rhianna's early live auditions). it blurs the distinction of the innate talents (worthy of their egos) from the pitch-corrected plastic counterparts whose voices aren't made any more unique with AutoTune anyway!

here's Erykah Badu & co. on why their egos should speak out on this:



(watch out for the AutoTune example)

whereas no part of music is going to suffer or diminish because of this inventions. there will still be singers....
unfortunately no where near the amount of natural and unique talents we had back in the day (~mid 90s and before).

i'm always happy to quote this from our man:
"I don't think people are being experimental and innovative enough. -- I think there's too much cookie-cutter stuff."

Michael Jackson; Ebony, Dec 2007
i'd be the first to check out any new development/innovations/gizmos in art and its technology, but i'm fascinated even more so on how we can use them creatively.

---

btw, i love your chords on that Soundclick demo. i joined up to that site a long time ago but completely forgot under what username. gonna create a new account and buzz you there if you don't mind
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The greatest talk box users were Stevie and Roger.

Teddy was OK, I guess Peter Frampton played a mean talk box too.

I guess I can give T-Pain pointers and kudos for bringing that style back.
 
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I like Teddy Riley's work. The difference between Teddy Riley and a lot of current producers and the "in" hip-hop and contemporary R&B artists is that Riley can actually make real music with real instruments, but he utilizes the computers. So many artists today do all of their work at a computer. There's kids who lay beats down on a computer and make it big. At best, I guess some of them can use keyboards and synths to create a track.

Roger - Computer Love


Stevie Wonder - Positivity w/ his daughter Aisha (Talkbox on backing vocals)

 
a couple of tracks from a Thriller-era R&B-Funk collab album between Herbie Hancock and Rod Temperton called LITE ME UP [1982].

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Give It All Your Heart


Motor Mouth



I like Teddy Riley's work. The difference between Teddy Riley and a lot of current producers and the "in" hip-hop and contemporary R&B artists is that Riley can actually make real music with real instruments, but he utilizes the computers. So many artists today do all of their work at a computer. There's kids who lay beats down on a computer and make it big. At best, I guess some of them can use keyboards and synths to create a track.
to be fair, i don't see any difference between Timbaland and Teddy Riley except that Riley grew up learning a few instruments but he never really put them to use in his work as a NJS producer, barring the required keyboard skills obviously. and i agree that there are many producers who don't even know how to the play the keyboard (save for a few bass lines) but i don't see it as something necessary if e.g. you're only a sampling Hip-Hop producer - Pete Rock, Primo never really required it at all and their work is unique and priceless.

i think if Timbo hadn't gone into the ringtone music route, he'd be more openly hailed just as influential as Teddy because of his 90s stuff. i believe he was, anyway.
 
It sure was. :yes:

Now I believe GREG PHILLINGANES may have used it. ;)

There's also some talkbox in Mary Wells' 1981 album, "In and Out of Love" on the songs "Let's Mix It Up" (near the end) and "I'm Not the One (You're In Love With)" (also near the end).
 
for me Roger and Peter Frampton and Stevie rocked it tight. dug Sly and the family stone's "Don't call me N****,Whitey. sly rocked it on that track way back when.
 
I like Teddy Riley's work. The difference between Teddy Riley and a lot of current producers and the "in" hip-hop and contemporary R&B artists is that Riley can actually make real music with real instruments, but he utilizes the computers. So many artists today do all of their work at a computer. There's kids who lay beats down on a computer and make it big. At best, I guess some of them can use keyboards and synths to create a track.

Roger - Computer Love


Stevie Wonder - Positivity w/ his daughter Aisha (Talkbox on backing vocals)

well..talent is talent, no matter how big or small it may seem to others. so, that's why i'm cool with the artists of today. cus what person a can do with a small talent, person b cannot.

i'm cool with Teddy Riley too.
 
mistermaxxx said:
good pick there
although i never liked the album, even though the thought of Temperton/Hancock is "
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" alone.
 
jam session between ?uestlove (The Roots) and James Poyser:

The Randy Watson Experience - Selma Hyjack


Poyser on the vocoder saying "hey dont you wanna? hey salma heyek?" :/

two of my fav people Pino Palladino on bass, and J Dilla on bells there.
 
Here's some vocoder classics:

Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five ~ Scorpio

Kraftwerk ~ The Robots (1991 version)
 
IMO, the talkbox effect gave music a more futuristic sound in the late 70's and 80's and although Stevie & Herbie used it first, IMO Roger was the pioneer of using the talkbox and he made it a standout feature of his solo music and with Zapp too. Teddy Riley is another artist today who uses the talkbox a lot in his music with BlackStreet & Guy and I read that he had his talkbox customized to sound like Roger's. Also, I think that the effect T-Pain uses on his vocals is from using the 'auto tune' instead of using a talkbox. Prince has also used a talkbox on some of his songs too like '3121'.

Here's a few videos of Roger I thought I'd add. the first is a tribute song for Kareem Abdul Jabbar's NBA career that he made along with Ray Davis (Parliament/Funkadelic) called "I'm So Happy". The second is Roger's cover of James Brown's "Papas Gotta Brand New Bag" which is from his "Unlimited!" album.



 
IMO, the talkbox effect gave music a more futuristic sound in the late 70's and 80's and although Stevie & Herbie used it first, IMO Roger was the pioneer of using the talkbox and he made it a standout feature of his solo music and with Zapp too. Teddy Riley is another artist today who uses the talkbox a lot in his music with BlackStreet & Guy and I read that he had his talkbox customized to sound like Roger's. Also, I think that the effect T-Pain uses on his vocals is from using the 'auto tune' instead of using a talkbox. Prince has also used a talkbox on some of his songs too like '3121'.

Here's a few videos of Roger I thought I'd add. the first is a tribute song for Kareem Abdul Jabbar's NBA career that he made along with Ray Davis (Parliament/Funkadelic) called "I'm So Happy". The second is Roger's cover of James Brown's "Papas Gotta Brand New Bag" which is from his "Unlimited!" album.

i don't know if tpain used an autotune, cus it sounds different from what chris brown used..and chris brown def used an autotune in a song. the autotune sounds like a mechanical voice..but the talkbox sounds like an acutal special effect, and makes no bones about it not sounding like a voice, although it can mouth words in tune. and the latter is what tpain sounds like. to me, the autotune is unnecessary and irritating...chris brown already has a singing voice, and didn't seem to need it, but he used it anyway. tpain doesn't sing..so his device sounds like a special effect. i guess i prefer that sound, to the autotune.
 
^ it's definitely pitch-processing software that is used on T-Pain's vocals (like AutoTune, Melodyne, there are dozens of them doing the very same thing). it's the same software that is used to make pitch-perfect vocals.
 
R. Kelly is playing that out. He's even using the same phrases as T-Pain. He did it in the Same Girl Triple Up Remix too. Both T-Pain and R. Kelly were on that track.
 
yeah many muppet are using it now; Lil Wayne, Kanye, Chris Brown, Lil Kim, Bow Wow, Lil Boosie

even Snoop's used it on his Sensual Seduction tune but he pays tribute to Roger & Zapp in the video even though it's not a talkbox lol

 
'whisper' vocoder:


Zo! - I Can't Help It














sings in the chorus.
 
Teddy on the talkbox on my favourite show, Later With Jools Holland:

Blackstreet - Don't Leave Me (Live on Jools '97)



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^ Whoa.. nice find. That's a great version. A little bit of nice jazzy sax in there spice it up.
 
^ yeah, the whole performance's much better than the album version imo. even the engineering from BBC beats that on their album. still a great album, though.


from George Clinton's new album

Ain't That Peculiar (feat. Sly Stone & El DeBarge)









with Sly putting on some gruff ad-libs through both a vocoder and a talkbox.
 
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vocoder

Craig David - What's Your Flava [2002]

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nice production from Garage maestro Mark Hill (of Artful Dodger).
 
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