Page 51 of 51 FirstFirst ... 41495051
Results 751 to 762 of 762

Thread: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

   
  1. #751
    Points: 26,891, Level: 97
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 459
    Overall activity: 99.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranOverdrive25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    11,297
    Points
    26,891
    Level
    97
    Thanks
    31
    Thanked 3,395 Times in 1,581 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    ^ I've never heard of anyone calling Islam as a feminist religion but I have heard of Islamic feminism & feminists.

  2. #752
    Points: 64,331, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 53.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsOverdriveVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    15,729
    Points
    64,331
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    20,320
    Thanked 35,851 Times in 9,311 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    Quote Originally Posted by KOPV View Post
    ^ You are right about that, I was specifically speaking about the hijab used even outside of the fact.. Many Muslim women find them fashionable and beautiful. Go all out matching them with dresses, shoes or whatever.. when young girls grow up and see models on TV wearing it - it changes the scope of how they think of it as well.. You go to Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, and others right now and you will see a small percentage wearing old styling of covering (usually older) than you have adult women wearing hijabs in a fashionable way (which would be the largest percentage of woman) than you have woman that don't wear one at all.

    This is more so the standard in Islamic countries than the extremes that we hear about (which does exist) but does not speak about a majority anymore.
    Feeling forced to do something can have several layers. Being forced isn't just if you have a family that threatens you with violence if you do not wear it. It is also social pressure which I am sure is there in most Muslim countries - even in those where it isn't obligatory by law to wear it. But if people consider you a "whore" or somewhat lesser and less respectable if you do not wear it that is a kind of forcing and pressure as well. And one can debate how much is it wearing it out of "free will" when you have been brainwashed into thinking that's how a woman should supposed to dress otherwise she is a whore and she will go to Hell.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to respect77 For This Useful Post:


  4. #753
    Points: 37,907, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 21.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second ClassVeteranOverdrive25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mexico
    Posts
    10,467
    Points
    37,907
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    3,603
    Thanked 10,482 Times in 3,724 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    In many instances culture and religion go hand in hand but in this case the Quran and Hadith mandates women to cover. It's a religious thing.

    Quran (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."
    Quran (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.

    Quran (33:55) - "It shall be no crime in them as to their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their woman, or the slaves which their right hands possess, if they speak to them unveiled" A woman may present herself without a veil only to family and slaves.

    Sahih Bukhari (6:321) - Muhammad is asked whether it is right for a young woman to leave her house without a veil. He replies, "She should cover herself with the veil of her companion."

    Sahih Bukhari (60:282) - After Muhammad issued the command (Quran 24:31) for women to cover themselves, the women responded by tearing up sheets to cover their faces.

  5. #754
    Points: 26,891, Level: 97
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 459
    Overall activity: 99.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranOverdrive25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    11,297
    Points
    26,891
    Level
    97
    Thanks
    31
    Thanked 3,395 Times in 1,581 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    I get your point Respect, at the same time there is not a measurable way to measure reason so that convo could go on forever. I see a lot of people speaking about it but I am not sure how many people have actually LIVED it. I constantly see people posting scripture and various things to dismiss people that lived through it and are saying things that appose a specific belief, understanding, and/or perspective of someone that is speaking first hand..

    I can tell you first hand that I have seen little girls take their moms hijabs and wear them to be pretty like mom. or a girls eyes light up when they are watching TV and see a beautiful outfit with the hijab. And after moving back to the US I have seen single women that have no one to answer to wear it with pride..

    Sometimes cultural things (as you know) change meaning over time.. Sagging pants was not a fashion in the hood because it was cool, it was because people could not afford clothing and were 'Handy downs'.. hats and sun glasses were made for protection from the sun, now fashionable.. At one point in the US dresses on women were 'forced', a woman wearing pants would have been looked down upon.. Now women are seen every day choosing to wear dresses to look pretty.

    My main hope from my post is to give the understanding if a woman says it's by choice to not give her BS about it because it's not believed. I even know a non muslim that lives in NYC that wears hijabs because the way it looks.

    Women wore hijabs and derivatives of - before the Islamic religion exists and people outside the religion wear them today. And to your point while there are Mulsim woman that wear hijabs because of the thought of what they will seem like if they don't, there are many Islamic woman that don't wear them because of the same reason.. They don't want to be judged in a western country and want to fit in.. OR simply to make the stance, I am muslim and I want to show I can go without if I want.

    my mothers neighbors take off there hijab when they leave the house so they wont be judged...

  6. #755
    Points: 64,331, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 53.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsOverdriveVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    15,729
    Points
    64,331
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    20,320
    Thanked 35,851 Times in 9,311 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    I don't have any problems with someone who wants to wear out out of free will. But let's not act like this is a feminist symbol when many women do not wear it out of free will. Which was the point of the discussion. There are many women who LIVED IT to be forced into wearing the hijab and their experiences shouldn't be dismissed as some sort of fringe.

  7. #756
    Points: 26,891, Level: 97
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 459
    Overall activity: 99.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranOverdrive25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    11,297
    Points
    26,891
    Level
    97
    Thanks
    31
    Thanked 3,395 Times in 1,581 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    I don't know who is trying to pretend it is a feminist movement lol.. there are islamic feminist movements but that is not at all what I am talking about.. Just saying there are millions of islamic woman that prefer to wear hijabs out of choice and not all religious reasoning behind it.

  8. #757
    Points: 64,331, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 53.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsOverdriveVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    15,729
    Points
    64,331
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    20,320
    Thanked 35,851 Times in 9,311 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    I hear in the gossip news that Justin Bieber is toying with fundamentalist Christianity now? It is all over on TMZ and other gossip sites apparently that he's befriended this Hillsong Church pastor. That name (Hillsong) gives me a flashback. LOL. I grew up as an evangelical Christian and this church was pretty famous in those circles for its worship songs that a lot of other churches took over as well, including my church. We had their casette tapes and all.

  9. #758
    Points: 26,891, Level: 97
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 459
    Overall activity: 99.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranOverdrive25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    11,297
    Points
    26,891
    Level
    97
    Thanks
    31
    Thanked 3,395 Times in 1,581 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    ^ I heard in passing something about Bieber! lol
    **He lives forever within us**

  10. #759
    Points: 64,331, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 53.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsOverdriveVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    15,729
    Points
    64,331
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    20,320
    Thanked 35,851 Times in 9,311 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    I don't know guys if you have seen the 1972 documentary called "Marjoe". It is about a guy who was a Pentacostal preacher but later admitted to be a fraud. He explains and exposes all the usual tricks. LOL.


  11. #760
    Points: 64,331, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 53.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsOverdriveVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    15,729
    Points
    64,331
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    20,320
    Thanked 35,851 Times in 9,311 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    A Picture of Malaysian Atheists Has Led to a Government Crackdown on Ex-Muslims
    August 6, 2017 by Hemant Mehta 162 Comments

    Atheist Republic, an online Facebook group with more than 1.7 million followers around the world, frequently holds meetups for members in larger cities. It’s not just a chance to interact in person, though the importance of that shouldn’t be understated. They can do a lot more when they get to organize in person. The Metro Manila “Consulate,” for example, even raised money for disaster victims in the Philippines.

    Last week, the Consulate of Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia got together for dinner and drinks and they took a picture of the group to celebrate the occasion.



    Taking that picture may have been a mistake.

    Malaysia ostensibly has freedom of religion… but the rules don’t apply to Muslims who want to leave the faith. There are rules to prohibit — or at least make it very difficult to go through — such a (de)conversation.

    So back to that picture. The Malaysian government caught wind of the photo and began wondering if there were any secret Muslims in there… because they had to be punished.

    The government will investigate if there are Muslims who have joined the Kuala Lumpur Atheist Club, as made viral on the social media recently, said Deputy Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Dr Asyraf Wajdi Dusuki.



    According to Asyraf Wajdi, jurisdiction on Islamic faith is under the Syariah Criminal Enactment of each state, while at the Federal Territories level, it is under the Federal Territories Islamic Religious Department (Jawi).

    “If it is proven that there are Muslims involved in atheist activities that could affect their faith, the state Islamic religious departments or Jawi could take action. I have asked for Jawi to look into this grave allegation,” he told reporters after officiating the Indera Mahkota Division Umno Youth Delegates’ Conference here today.

    All this because a handful of atheists wanted to hang out together.

    It doesn’t stop there either. The news coverage led to a lot of Malaysians calling for the imprisonment or death of apostates over social media. Ali A. Rizvi posted a number of them:











    Rizvi added:

    This is the reality for those who leave Islam. We speak a lot here in the West about anti-Muslim bigotry, which is real and abhorrent. But it pales in comparison to Islamic bigotry, which gives license to its followers to murder those who dare to think for themselves, outside of Islam.

    Ex-Muslims, who still have Muslim names and share ethnicities and nationalities with other Muslims, are targeted by both.

    Armin Navabi, the founder of Atheist Republic, noted that the calls for beheading of members (including himself) was unique to the groups in certain countries… and they all had something in common.




    They are now asking for me to be beheaded for simply starting a group where Malaysian atheists can meet each other. Atheist Republic's Malaysian consulate is now being targeted by their government. Our Indonesian consulate is also under attack. Tell me why is our Manila consulate not under such attacks? It can't be the economy since Indonesia and Malaysia have a higher GDP per capita than the Philippines. It can't be western colonialism. They are all in the same area. Can it possibly be that Indonesia and Malaysia are Islamic and the Philippines is Christian? Weren't Indonesia and Malaysia supposed to be examples of "moderate" Islamic countries?

    (Someone’s sending this link to Reza Aslan and Ben Affleck, right? Just checking.)

    Because of the unwanted attention to the Malaysian group, other Consulates in majority-Muslim nations are also being targeted, like the one in Jakarta, Indonesia. That group took precautionary action on Facebook, purging its (closed group) membership of anyone who was still in the queue to be approved along with anyone who hadn’t commented in a while. Because who knows if they’re leaking information to the outside.



    The Malaysian Consulate released a long statement tonight explaining the “hidden crisis of ex-Muslims” and the bizarre version of religious freedom they have in the country:
    Many Muslims who have attempted to convert or leave Islam have received death threats. Those who have converted or left Islam, lead a secret double life. The civil court claims that conversions are under the jurisdiction of the [Sharia] courts, but converts contend that as they are no longer Muslim the [Sharia] courts hold no power over them. Authorities only allow Sunni Islam to be practised, arresting those who stray from those beliefs. Converts taken to be rehabilitated by Islamic authorities are forced to dress and act as Muslims.



    If ever there was a phobia that we’re experiencing in Malaysia, it’s not Islamophobia. Its Apostophobia (fear of apostates). A fear or hateful stand that is usually swept under the carpet since everyone is bent of protecting the sensitivities of Muslims…



    All of this just shows you how difficult it is to be an open atheist in a supposedly “free” nation that’s still dominated by Islamic beliefs, even if it’s not a Muslim theocracy.

    www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/08/06/a-picture-of-malaysian-atheists-has-led-to-a-government-crackdown-on-ex-muslims/

  12. #761
    Points: 64,331, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 53.0%
    Achievements:
    Three FriendsOverdriveVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    15,729
    Points
    64,331
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    20,320
    Thanked 35,851 Times in 9,311 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    Cutting Young Girls Isn’t Religious Freedom
    The First Amendment doesn’t protect the barbaric act of female genital mutilation.

    By Kristina Arriaga
    Aug. 24, 2017 7:27 p.m. ET


    Earlier this year, a 7-year-old girl from Minnesota entered an examination room at a clinic just outside of Detroit. Thinking this was a regular visit, she allowed the doctor to remove her pants and underwear and place her on the examination table. Suddenly, while two women in the clinic held her hands, the physician spread her legs and cut her clitoris. Two months later she told investigators the pain ran down to her ankles and she could barely walk.

    In April Dr. Jumana Nagarwala, who allegedly performed the procedure, was charged with conspiracy to commit female genital mutilation. Dr. Fakhruddin Attar, the owner of the since-closed clinic, was also charged. Investigators suspect Ms. Nagarwala may be involved in 100 other cases, and the trial starts in October. This marks the first time a female genital mutilation case is going to federal court. The lawyers for the Michigan physician will argue the girl “underwent a benign religious procedure.” This is a dangerous hypocrisy with far-reaching consequences.

    Female genital mutilation has been illegal in the U.S. since 1996. Yet a 2012 study in the journal Public Health Reports estimates that more than 500,000 girls in the U.S. have undergone the procedure or are at risk. These girls live all over the country, with larger concentrations in California, New York and Minnesota. Most go through this process in secret, and only 25 states have laws that criminalize the procedure. In Maine, the American Civil Liberties Union has opposed a bill to do so on the ground that “the risk of mutilation isn’t worth expanding Maine’s criminal code.”

    Female genital mutilation, most often performed on girls under 13, has serious medical and psychological repercussions. The cutting ranges from a clitoridectomy, partial to total removal of the clitoris, to infibulation, removal of all the external genitalia. The latter is so severe that “healing” often involves binding the girl from ankle to waist until the scar tissue closes. This kind of cutting leaves an opening the width of a pencil for urination, menstruation, sex and childbirth.

    In 2015 a U.N. official estimated that 20% of parents take their daughters to physicians but the rest use improvised sharp objects. This spring, an Ethiopian man in Georgia was deported for performing female genital mutilation with a pair of scissors on his 2-year-old daughter. Parents fearing prosecution sometimes take their girls out of the country for “vacation cutting.” A report from Unicef suggests at least 200 million girls and women alive today, in 30 countries, have undergone some form of it. (The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, of which I am vice chairwoman, does not take an official position on female genital mutilation.)

    Whether this practice is religious or cultural is debatable. In the Michigan case, the victims belong to an Indian Shiite Muslim sect called the Dawoodi Bohra, whose members refer to the clitoris as a sinful lump of flesh. The cutting, khatna, is considered a religious observance to prevent girls from becoming promiscuous. Yet female genital mutilation predates Christianity and Islam. No religious text requires it. Many imams have issued fatwas against the practice and Christian leaders like Pope Francis have denounced it.

    The physician’s lawyers announced they will craft a religious-freedom defense. And they may be astute enough to get away with it. The all-star team includes constitutional law scholar and O.J. Simpson lawyer Alan Dershowitz, along with Mayer Morganroth, who represented assisted-suicide champion Dr. Jack Kevorkian for more than 15 years. They are funded by an international Muslim organization called Dawat-e-Hadiyah.

    The lawyers must know they are entering dangerous territory, at least in terms of public relations. After coming under criticism for defending female genital mutilation, Mr. Dershowitz suggested during a June interview that pricking the girls’ clitoris would be a better way to fulfill a “religious legal obligation.” This is absurd. There is no such obligation.

    The physician’s lawyers have not only put these girls at even greater risk, they have tainted the religious freedom of all Americans with their specious arguments. Religious freedom is a bedrock right that ensures all can live according to their convictions. It also allows for the existence of charities providing Americans with an equivalent of $1.2 trillion annually in food, shelter, medical care and more. It is not a tool to protect harmful practices like female genital mutilation.

    These girls are among the most vulnerable in society. For their sake, Americans must raise their voices against this detestable practice. Doing what is right may also yield an important social good: the restoration of religious freedom to its proper place in American culture and jurisprudence.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/cutting...dom-1503617269

    So according to Alan Dershowitz female genital mutilation is "religious freedom". So where does this stop? Say there is a cult which requires human sacrifice as a part of their religious duties. Should we allow that to citing "religious freedom"? It's insane.

  13. #762
    Points: 15,040, Level: 79
    Level completed: 38%, Points required for next Level: 310
    Overall activity: 9.0%
    Achievements:
    Three Friends10000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,822
    Points
    15,040
    Level
    79
    Thanks
    1,732
    Thanked 2,761 Times in 972 Posts

    Default Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

    I'm happy my religion imposes nothing.
    Here for Michael. Only.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •