Jackson syringe testing issues - threads merged

AllForLove

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JUST IN :

APNewsBreak: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items
By: ANTHONY McCARTNEY
Associated Press
10/27/10 5:55 PM EDT



LOS ANGELES — Arguing that evidence is deteriorating, defense lawyers for the doctor charged in Michael Jackson's death are seeking urgent testing of two syringes and an IV bag found in the singer's mansion after his death.
Attorneys for Dr. Conrad Murray said during a 40-minute closed session with a judge that liquids in one of the syringes had already dried up and was now "salt," according to a transcript of the proceeding obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press.
Quantities of substances in the syringes and IV bag could be crucial to explaining how the singer died, the lawyers said at the Tuesday hearing.
Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter. Authorities contend he administered a lethal dose of sedatives, including the anesthetic propofol, to Jackson in the bedroom of his rented mansion in June 2009.
Officials tested what was in the items and found traces of propofol and lidocaine, according to the transcript. But the amounts of the substances were not determined, and defense attorneys contend that may be significant in the case expected to hinge on technical and scientific data.
Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor declined to order testing on the substances Tuesday because he wanted defense attorneys to confer further with prosecutors.
The judge might order the testing late next week if the two sides can agree on how it will be conducted.
"I want to act as quickly as we can," Pastor told the attorneys.
Still, defense attorney Ed Chernoff struck an urgent tone, telling the judge, "We are doing it because the house is on fire. We need a hose."
Chernoff said substances in one broken syringe found at the mansion had dried up since June 2009, when Pastor ordered the evidence preserved. The tests sought by Murray's attorneys will destroy the samples and can only be performed once.
Prosecutor David Walgren questioned why defense attorneys had not raised the issue sooner.
"There are very technical, complex issues," he told the judge, adding he thought an agreement on the testing could eventually be reached.
Defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan told the judge his efforts to get the substances tested has been delayed because an expert in the Los Angeles coroner's office had been on a lengthy vacation. He argued the tests should have been done after Jackson's death.
"It hasn't been done yet," Flanagan said. "It should have been done a year ago."
Tissue samples in Jackson's body were tested for levels of various substances and led to the coroner's determination that the pop singer died in part from acute propofol intoxication.
The anesthetic is supposed to be administered in hospital settings, but Murray told investigators he had been providing it to Jackson as a sleep aide and had been trying to wean him off the drug.
Chernoff has said the doctor did not give Jackson anything that should have killed him.
The tests are likely to be conducted by the Los Angeles County coroner's office. A phone message left for coroner's Assistant Chief Ed Winter was not immediately returned.
Flanagan said the agency told him the makeup of the liquids in the syringes and IV bag were not tested because the values were not necessary to establish the cause of Jackson's death.
Flanagan said in the closed session that the results of the tests "would be very helpful information perhaps for both sides."
Chernoff told the judge results of the testing, which could take a month or more to complete, would not be used during a preliminary hearing scheduled to begin Jan. 4.
Prosecutors will lay out some of their evidence during the hearing, and Pastor will then decide whether there is enough evidence to order Murray to stand trial.






Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/e...ng-jackson-items-105902718.html#ixzz13bFx4HtO
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

hmmm...
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

"We couldn't do a proper test because one of the samples had already turned into salt. It's not fair that they didn't hand the samples to us any sooner. They (lapd/DA) were probably hiding something..."

If Murray makes up crap like that, or something similar, I wouldn't be surprised.

If it should've been done a year ago, then why didn't Murray ask a year ago? Huh? What's his excuse for that?

Also, when tests like this are given, does anyone know if they hand over PART of the samples? Or ALL the samples, meaning every bit of it?

Defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan told the judge his efforts to get the substances tested has been delayed because an expert in the Los Angeles coroner's office had been on a lengthy vacation.

so i guess only ONE person in the coroner's office has the power to test the substances, either that or the medical experts agree with the below quote in bold.

The tests are likely to be conducted by the Los Angeles County coroner's office. A phone message left for coroner's Assistant Chief Ed Winter was not immediately returned.

Flanagan said the agency told him the makeup of the liquids in the syringes and IV bag were not tested because the values were not necessary to establish the cause of Jackson's death.

That's what I thought too. They found the amount of all those sepecific drugs in Michael's body. So finding whatever values left over in the syringe and IV bag really got me questioning what they REALLY are trying to do.

Murray's team better cool down before they makes even lesser sense. Because they just look really stupid right now.
 
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Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

Prosecutor David Walgren questioned why defense attorneys had not raised the issue sooner.
cause the defence now realise they are up ish creek without a paddle. this testing is irrelvent. what matters is the drug was in the syringe etc to start with. the amounts are irrelvent as that proves nothing interms of the levels that were found in mike. mj is the evidence and the syringes shows that was the equipment used to give it.ie 1+1=2 this sort of winging by murray seems as if they want to say the syrines found werent the ones that were used to adminsiter cause there was only x amount of diprivan found in then. which is as stupid an argument as it gets.the defence will try and muddy the waters and take it as far away as possible from the facts of non montioring equipement etc. this case is very basic. why the media are trying to make it out like its some complicated DNA case i dont know. well yeah i do!

murrays defence will only be as good as the judge allows. (is he allowed to decide on that like with pros evidence im not sure) the case evolves around him giving dip as a sleep aid outisde of a hospital setting with no equipment and not monitoring. the reasons why murray was giving mj diprivan is irrelevent interms of his defence. and should not be allowed to be used as a defence as it has nothing to do with the charges.it makes no difference whether mj was a druggie as thats the defence he will use as it has nothing to do with defending why u had no monitoring equipement and were sat on the phone yacking for nearly an hr. i wonder what would happen to an anethetist in a hospital if during an operation he sits talking on his mobile and goes to the toliet while hes supposed to be monitoring the paitent and the patent stops breathing and dies? dr in the uk was convicted of MS for that. and that was in a hospital setting and he wasnt sat on the phone or left the room

the agency told him the makeup of the liquids in the syringes and IV bag were not tested because the values were not necessary to establish the cause of Jackson's death.
exactly. the levels are irrelevent.

Quantities of substances in the syringes and IV bag could be crucial to explaining how the singer died, the lawyers said at the Tuesday hearing.
gonna imply someone else came in an did it and took away the syringes with them. yeah its stupid but what other argument. or mj did it and the other syringe was never found. as the amounts in the bag and syringe are irrelvent its the amount in mj that matters
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

Anyone familiar with the term if the glove does not fit you must quite... Am sick to my stomach cause l think this is the road they heading to.
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

dont see how. they arent claiming there was no diprivan in any of the equipment. ontop of the fact its documented that the diprivan was sent to murray via his girlfriends house.they are just grasping at straws.kinda intresting its been so quiet over the last few months from murray and his lawyers. all the talking to the media then when discovery gets handed over not a peep.it certianly shut them up.
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

Sorry, I know this information is too old now.

But I've just read this thread and it has sorprised me a lot. After the 23rd August hearing in many publications and online sites it was said that those fluids were "of" Mj (!?) and some disscussion went on as to what was the defense aims at questioning the toxicology results. :doh:

If the testing was only of syringes and an IV bag, as it clearly was, still makes no sense.

What the AR shows is levels of concentration of the substance (ug/ml or ug/g) in different organs and the blood too, and that has nothing to do with remaining quantities of propofol detected in two syringes and an IVtubing (which were collected as evidence).
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

What the AR shows is levels of concentration of the substance (ug/ml or ug/g) in different organs and the blood too, and that has nothing to do with remaining quantities of propofol detected in two syringes and an IVtubing (which were collected as evidence).
exactly. all it does is show how desperate murray is. the reports by the media were wrong. the defence want to see the amounts that were found in the syringes and iv.what ever the amount is is irrelevent to the case.
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

Dr. Murray can ask for testing the syringes, but whatever the tests show it won't change the fact that he was using propofol outside a hospital and without proper equipment.
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

Murray asking for tests proves nothing.. It still doesn't take away from the fact that he gave MJ propofol at home without monitoring equipment and wasn't even watching him. If he's asking for amounts that proves he has no clue what he was doing and that he left MJ alone for more than the 2 minutes he claims
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

cause the defence now realise they are up ish creek without a paddle. this testing is irrelvent. what matters is the drug was in the syringe etc to start with. the amounts are irrelvent as that proves nothing interms of the levels that were found in mike. mj is the evidence and the syringes shows that was the equipment used to give it.ie 1+1=2 this sort of winging by murray seems as if they want to say the syrines found werent the ones that were used to adminsiter cause there was only x amount of diprivan found in then. which is as stupid an argument as it gets.

They already said that, in his sworn statement Murray said he gave propofol via an IV drip, not a bolus injection. The syringes and the IV system collected from the scene prove he did it via bolus injection which prove what he did was much more worse in terms of negligent . I believe they are trying to figure out a strategy to taint the discovery and handling of the syringes and the IV system to later ask the judge to prohibit the prosecution from using them in the trial. They have no choice but to try and convince the judge to not admit the IV system as evidence. A bolus injection means Murray can't blame MJ, they need to make the jury believe it was given via an IV drip which contradict the physical evidence.

murrays defence will only be as good as the judge allows. (is he allowed to decide on that like with pros evidence im not sure) the case evolves around him giving dip as a sleep aid outside of a hospital setting with no equipment and not monitoring. the reasons why murray was giving mj diprivan is irrelevent interms of his defence. and should not be allowed to be used as a defence as it has nothing to do with the charges.it makes no difference whether mj was a druggie as thats the defence he will use as it has nothing to do with defending why u had no monitoring equipement and were sat on the phone yacking for nearly an hr. i wonder what would happen to an anethetist in a hospital if during an operation he sits talking on his mobile and goes to the toliet while hes supposed to be monitoring the paitent and the patent stops breathing and dies? dr in the uk was convicted of MS for that. and that was in a hospital setting and he wasnt sat on the phone or left the room

he already delivered an explanation to that. He claimed he only gave him 50 mg daily , 50 mg don't last more than 2 minutes and in most cases don't even induce seelp at all. You don't need a medical expert to tell you 50 mg don't need monitoring equipment and sure being on the phone would not have been a problem especially since he claimed he gave it via an IV drip and not as a bolus injection.



gonna imply someone else came in an did it and took away the syringes with them. yeah its stupid but what other argument. or mj did it and the other syringe was never found. as the amounts in the bag and syringe are irrelvent its the amount in mj that matters

Randy will be a very willing witness to the conspiracy theory ,someone else killed MJ to get his wealth and blamed on Dr.Murray.
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

Soundmind,

what's also stupid is the fact that Murray claimed he gave MJ 50 mg, but attempted to ween him off using 25 mg.. According to anesthesiologists 25 mg-50mg does absolutely nothing as far as inducing sleep. At the max I think the person would be out for 10 minutes with those amounts. How will Murray explain using such small amounts if he was trying to help MJ sleep? It doesn't make sense if MJ would be up within minutes
 
they need to make the jury believe it was given via an IV drip which contradict the physical evidence.

Sorry, but I do not understand your point completely.

In the Affidavit it's said: "every night via intravenous drip (IV)".

I think Americans use "drip" to refer to the IV system, not to the device to control the speed of the drops falling ("a controllable infusion pump", as it is mentioned in the Anesthesiology Consultation and which was not found in the crime scene).

In BrE I've heard the term "drip" to refer to both: the system and the apparatus (the infusion pump).


It's clear that no infusion pump was found, but I wonder if some IV tubes were removed before Emergencies arrived, as Alberto Álvarez was instructed to help to "clear" the scene.
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

IV, Bolus what difference does it make? Murray had no business giving MJ that crap anyway for 'sleep' It's anesthesia for God's sakes used to induce unconsciousness during surgery. What was the medical use for it? Absolutely nothing and Murray knew it. He also knew he had no business giving MJ this stuff as a sleep aid. Being unconscious is not the same as sleep and Murray knows that too. He messed up royally and killed MJ and now he's playing stupid. None of what his attorneys is talking about explains why Murray was not watching his patient and why Murray had no kind of life saving equipment available and why a medical doctor had no clue to call 911 when he 'discovered' his patient in distress. A medical doctor should save lives not take them.
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

IV, Bolus what difference does it make?
A lot.
Besides every thing you have said, which I agree with, the "bolus injection" issue and the not having "a controllable infusion pump" make things worse for CM. It is said in the AC. And it is sthg of VITAL importance:

- Bolus injection is used for induction (the "beginning") and it's much more dangerous.
- To maintain sleep, there must be continuous infusion and this requires precision control of the dose by way of an infusion pump, which CM didn't have. (mg/kg/hour).

PS: We all know the doses found on toxicology exam were not of an induction phase; there were high levels of concentration.
 
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Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

A lot.
Besides every thing you have said, which I agree with, the "bolus injection" issue and the not having "a controllable infusion pump" make things worse for CM. It is said in the AC. And it is sthg of VITAL importance:

- Bolus injection is used for induction (the "beginning") and it's much more dangerous.
- To maintain sleep, there must be continuous infusion and this requires precision control of the dose by way of an infusion pump, which CM didn't have. (mg/kg/hour).

PS: We all know the doses found on toxicology exam were not of an induction phase; there were high levels of concentration.

So what the heck did Murray do? and what was he trying to do?
 
smoothlugar;3113750 said:
Sorry, but I do not understand your point completely.

In the Affidavit it's said: "every night via intravenous drip (IV)".

I think Americans use "drip" to refer to the IV system, not to the device to control the speed of the drops falling ("a controllable infusion pump", as it is mentioned in the Anesthesiology Consultation and which was not found in the crime scene).

In BrE I've heard the term "drip" to refer to both: the system and the apparatus (the infusion pump).


It's clear that no infusion pump was found, but I wonder if some IV tubes were removed before Emergencies arrived, as Alberto Álvarez was instructed to help to "clear" the scene.


they need to make the jury believe it was given via an IV drip which contradict the physical evidence.


The autopsy report stated :

-They found one syringe in the bedroom, another one in Murray's bag with propofol traces in them along with lidocaine and flumazenil.
- An IV system in Murray's bag, the fluids in the IV bag did not contain drugs, the long part of the IV tube connected to the IV bag did not contain any propofol , lidocian ...etc. The short section of the IV tube attached to the Y connecter had traces of propofol and lidocaine .

-Lack of propofol in the long tube, traces of it in syringes and the short tube meant it was not given as an IV drip but rather as bolus injection, injected directly into the short tube attached to the Y connector.( a near death experience each time Murray injected MJ, it was BOND TO HAPPEN any minute, no way MJ was taking it for weeks like that and survived, not even for hours)

-The autopsy report stated MJ would not have been able to cause his death if propofol was given via a bolus injection and that's why Murray was charged.

-Murray prepared very early to blame it on MJ, that's why he stated it was given via an IV drip, the coroner did not discuss that theory in the autopsy report, he stated the evidence collected at the scene suggested it was a bolus injection and that why the deceased could not have done it himself. Now, the defence will say he could have done it himself becuase it was an IV drip not bolus injection.

- Their problem as stated above; the syringes and the lack of propofol in the long tube.
- They need to find away to stop these crucial physical evidence from being heard by the jurors, and questioning their handling was the first step to achieve that.
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

thanks for that Soundmind. You explain things well.

It's obvious that Murray was going to blame MJ when he started saying that he didn't give MJ anything that 'should've' killed him. The fact remains he left MJ alone under anethesia he's still guilty as hell even if someone else came in the room or MJ woke up like he claims. Murray claims he was only gone for 2 minutes maximum which is a lie because know one snuck in MJ's room in 2 minutes shot him up and disappeared without Murray noticing. And after being given sedative after sedative for hours I doubt MJ just woke up, alert, and hooked himself up to an IV and killed himself. Highly impossible.. and besides Murray was on the phone chatting how is he going to explain that?
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

what I don't understand is what did Murray expect to happen? he had given MJ an array of other sedatives all night long. Did he just think they were all disappearing? shouldn't he have expected some type of interaction being that he is a doctor and studied pharmacology? And why is it that every doctor that has spoken about this case all say that what Murray did was insane and reckless? Even the AG ( attorney general) said that but Murray is saying he did nothing wrong.

What doctor is going to defend Murray in this case?
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

None of what his attorneys is talking about explains why Murray was not watching his patient and why Murray had no kind of life saving equipment available

Their defence the magical words " only 50 mg daily":

1.50 mg of propofol via IV drip given over a period of time (HOURS )don't need saving equipment, so Murray did not bring any, all medical experts will testify to that.

2. 50 mg of propofol via an IV drip given over a period of time( hours )do not need a doctor monitoring 24/7, that's why Murray left, all medical experts will agree.

3. 50 mg of propofol could not have killed him , no one can say it caused his death., so Murray is innocent. Medical experts will agree.

4. 50 mg of propofol daily for six weeks is consistent with the relatively very small amount purchased by Murray.

( now if u are dumb & believed Murray's story that MJ used it daily for six weeks , and with the amount purchased , you ought to believe he only used 50 mg daily ).

Please don't ask me what was he doing there daily. MJ suffered from dehydration for decades and almost died twice because of it. He was there daily to ensure MJ got enough liquids , not to inject him with propofol enough for hours of sedation, I'm not saying he did not use it before that night, he likely did. But he sure did not use it to sleep every night for hours and for six weeks.


what I don't understand is what did Murray expect to happen? he had given MJ an array of other sedatives all night long. Did he just think they were all disappearing? shouldn't he have expected some type of interaction being that he is a doctor and studied pharmacology? And why is it that every doctor that has spoken about this case all say that what Murray did was insane and reckless? Even the AG ( attorney general) said that but Murray is saying he did nothing wrong.

What doctor is going to defend Murray in this case?

All the doctors are basing their judgements on his story which is full of complete and proven lies.

Sedatives???? beside diazepam none of the sedatives were given that night. the toxicology results show the sedatives were given minutes before death not hours as Murray claimed. Lack of lorazepam in MJ's urine, liver and blood at admission needs a lot of explanation on Murray's side.

I can't believe none of the doctors who run to voice their surprise at MJ's tolerance to sedatives as soon as Murray's statement were made public, did not bother to read the toxicology report and correct their mistakes, cus that report proved Murray's account of AT LEAST the last THREE days was a medically proven LIE.
 
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Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

That is because the tox screen was not out yet. That only came out after Murray was charged.
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

That is because the tox screen was not out yet. That only came out after Murray was charged.

so does the tox screen prove that Murray gave it via IV Drip or via Bolus injection? what I can't understand is he claimed he gave MJ propofol after he 'demanded' it, then he watched him for 10 minutes until he fell asleep. He then said he went to the restroom for 2 minutes and that's when he 'discovered' MJ wasn't breathing. His story just doesn't add up because for the rest of the time what was he doing? he didn't call paramedics until 12:05
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

Page23.gif
so does the tox screen prove that Murray gave it via IV Drip or via Bolus injection? what I can't understand is he claimed he gave MJ propofol after he 'demanded' it, then he watched him for 10 minutes until he fell asleep. He then said he went to the restroom for 2 minutes and that's when he 'discovered' MJ wasn't breathing. His story just doesn't add up because for the rest of the time what was he doing? he didn't call paramedics until 12:05


The tox screen shows Murray lied about what he gave Michel and how he gave to him. Remember Murray said he spent the hours of two in the morning to seven in the morning given Michael Lorazepam and Versed. With Versed being the last thing he gave Michael before given him Propofol. Here is the tox screen of the autopsy remember what Murray said about Versed being the last thing he gave Michael however look at the findings and notice how they did not find it in Michael's hospital blood; And as far as the Lorazepam goes remember the coroner said that it was a factor and how Michael died take a look at it and see how it is only found in Michael's femoral blood and heart blood.
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

Page23.gif



The tox screen shows Murray lied about what he gave Michel and how he gave to him. Remember Murray said he spent the hours of two in the morning to seven in the morning given Michael Lorazepam and Versed. With Versed being the last thing he gave Michael before given him Propofol. Here is the tox screen of the autopsy remember what Murray said about Versed being the last thing he gave Michael however look at the findings and notice how they did not find it in Michael's hospital blood; And as far as the Lorazepam goes remember the coroner said that it was a factor and how Michael died take a look at it and see how it is only found in Michael's femoral blood and heart blood.

this fool spent hours giving MJ drug after drug.. what the hell is wrong with him? he needs to be imprisoned. How does he think he did nothing wrong?
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

It is a fact that Murray told lies to the police.

- To start with he said two different times of when he found MJ was not breathing: in the hospital he said to the police it was at "around 12:00" (AR, p.2) and on 27th he told the police it was at about 11:00 (Affidavit).
- He didn't mention to the police his almost 47 minutes on his phone.
- Urine test shows Murray's statement about the time he gave prop on that day is FALSE.
- And a large etcetera, pointless to be mentioned in this thread.

-Lack of propofol in the long tube, traces of it in syringes and the short tube meant it was not given as an IV drip but rather as bolus injection, injected directly into the short tube attached to the Y connector.( a near death experience each time Murray injected MJ, it was BOND TO HAPPEN any minute, no way MJ was taking it for weeks like that and survived, not even for hours)
Yes, but the syringes found were very small: 10cc=10ml. (In the CNN video, the bolus injection is much bigger. The average induction dose for an adult: 2,5mg/Kg.)
http://www.anaesthesia-az.com/search/?itemId=3095665

Now, the defence will say he could have done it himself becuase it was an IV drip not bolus injection.
They will have problem with that: where is the tube?

CM could have hooked the vial to the IV, something very risky if not having a proper precision dosifier (the infusion pump). That's why he later cleared the scene with some help.
(By the way, can anybody tell me where the "spike" on the bottle topper is mentioned in the AR -I cannot find it. Thank you-).


1.50 mg of propofol via IV drip given over a period of time (HOURS )don't need saving equipment, so Murray did not bring any, all medical experts will testify to that.

2. 50 mg of propofol via an IV drip given over a period of time( hours )do not need a doctor monitoring 24/7, that's why Murray left, all medical experts will agree.
The Anesthesiology Consultation says there was no evidence of an infusion pump for control of an IV infusion so how could Murray control it over hours? (Continuos infusion= mg/kg/hour). The AC says it is required precision control of the dose.

3. 50 mg of propofol could not have killed him
True. But it makes sby sleep for only minutes and then you wake up.


In AR, in a form, to the question: "How did injury occur?", the answer is "intravenous injection by another", but that doesn't mean the coroner is implying by "bolus". Any IV medicine is "injected" in a way (unless there's some misunderstanding with the language from my part. If that's the case, please correct me.)

The AC says tox screen showed levels similar to those of a major full anes. "with propo. infusions after a bolus injection."
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

To me, If Murray lied about so many things here, then it tells me that there is something very large and important missing from the story of what really happened to Michael. IMO Murray cannot be innocent if so much of what he said is proven to be lies. Something is really wrong here. And on the off-chance that he's taking the rap for someone, he's still guilty of obstruction of justice. Again IMO.
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

Murray was on the phone chatting how is he going to explain that?

That's another thing. Murray's claims about what he was doing all that time kept changing too. How is it that he continues to get passes on that? First he said he went to the bathroom and was in there for two minutes tops and when he came out, he found Michael not breathing. And in addition to that scenario, he said there was no phone working in the house to call 911. And he couldn't remember the address where Michael lived even though he had obviously driven there several times (Murray's car was in the driveway of the house after Michael died, so what the....?!) Then he said he was on the phone chatting away and later found Michael in distress. So how could he be on the phone when supposedly all the phones in the house were disconnected. And if he had been on a cellphone, why didn't he call 911 from there instead of telling the guards to call 911 for him. There's so much about this that doesn't make sense. (Sigh). And the beat goes on........
 
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Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

Yes, but the syringes found were very small: 10cc=10ml. (In the CNN video, the bolus injection is much bigger. The average induction dose for an adult: 2,5mg/Kg.)
 
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Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

That's another thing. Murray's claims about what he was doing all that time kept changing too. How is it that he continues to get passes on that? First he said he went to the bathroom and was in there for two minutes tops and when he came out, he found Michael not breathing. And in addition to that scenario, he said there was no phone working in the house to call 911. And he couldn't remember the address where Michael lived even though he had obviously driven there several times (Murray's car was in the driveway of the house after Michael died, so what the....?!) Then he said he was on the phone chatting away and later found Michael in distress. So how could he be on the phone when supposedly all the phones in the house were disconnected. And if he had been on a cellphone, why didn't he call 911 from there instead of telling the guards to call 911 for him. There's so much about this that doesn't make sense. (Sigh). And the beat goes on........

I totally agree.. he's obviously lying
 
Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

Again the amount he claimed he was giving daily to MJ did not need an infusion pump, so he was not really negligent.



Soundmind,


If Murray was only giving MJ 50 mg, that would only knock him out for about 10 minutes right? what kind of sleep is 10 minutes? that doesn't make any sense whatsover. When the coroner said that MJ had enough propofol in his system for major surgery, Chernoff made a comment that 'there is no way Murray would give that much to MJ'. Well wouldn't that be the right amount if Murray's intention was to knock MJ out for 8 hours? what good would small amounts do if they only last for 10 minutes?

Murray is an idiot.. he should not have been giving propofol at all period. He was the doctor. His duty as MJ's primary care physician was to find safe and harmless ways for his patient to sleep even if he had to refer MJ to a sleep specialist. If he had no clue on how to treat insomnia he should've sought outside help.
 
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