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Change the Charges

jrsfan

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We stopped the discovery autopsy, and something last year too (I forgot what was mentioned), we caused the D.A. to actually cut off his line. We can convince them to change the charges to what they SHOULD be.

Here is the contact for the D.A. We must contact him to change these charges.

webmail@da.lacounty.gov (D.A.)
213 974 3512

Also, Deborah Brazil is one of the prosecutors in this case. She has handled various high profile murder cases.

Deborah Brazil (prosecutor in case)
213 974 3887

We can't just sit and complain about highly insufficient charges. Even two reporters in the courtroom were getting emotional for crying out loud!

So I please ask everyone to contact the D.A., or the prosecutor in this case (prosecutors do have the power to convince an increase in charges) to bump these charges up to AT LEAST second degree murder.

This clearly sounds WAY OFF from involuntary manslaughter. There's too many of us fans who believe so. __________________

Thanks to Kasume
 
the judge can change them after the prelim if he sees fit
 
thanks for this ! I'm not familiar at all with US laws and since yesterday I was wondering if there was a chance to see the charges increased !
 
I hope the judge changes the charges... It's all so heartbreaking... Just shocked and speechless... Even the oxygen tank was empty (AR p30).


This is so sad, so frustrating...


But at least JUSTICE SHOULD BE DONE.
 
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I don't see anything like he would have thought before he could kill Mr. Jackson. He is just extremely stupid or then he was completely in panic. Because he was the only one who knew what happened and he like 'didn't want to believe' it in the first place. The saddest part is that he didn't tell everything right away because it could have been helpful but he like decided to cover things and hide evidences. But, if it will be shown he actually pumped drugs during Michael was sedated or sleeping, it brings it to the completely different level and there's no excuses why he could have done something like that. I afraid he did that from time to time because Michael himself didn't understand his mood. If that's the case it's really terrible and then you really have to consider what are the charges. Imagine if Michael didn't feel ok sometimes, but it never came into his mind the doctor has probably given him something he doesn't need or want.
 
@jrsfan - I don't think it is appropriate to contact the DA and ask for a change in charges. We aren't connected with the case personally in any way. We are all frustrated, annoyed, confused and generally depressed and apathetic to a lot of whats going on beyond our control.

The justice system in the United States isn't perfect, but we have to have faith that after the prelim is over, the right decisions will be made by those charged with the responsibility of making them.
 
Fans now very angry and say we need to call D.A. before michael is turned into a drug addict with shower cap! Fan from inside the court say we need to do something now before it is too late! she say that michael Mother is so mad at drug addict story that she utter a bad word in court! this is all too bad i dont think i can go to the court again tomorrow :no: but michael needs us all and we need to be there for him anyway.
 
i think we all need to do what we can to show our love and support for Michael and his family. they all need us more then ever. im not happy about these charges at all and i believe it should be a murder charge. everything just doesnt add up. Murray knew what he was doing and he didnt care. I dont care if he messed up or what Michael is gone and his children are left without their father and he must severly pay for that. whatever we do to keep fighting this fight will have a effect bc the entire world is watching now and wants to know what happened and why. the pressure is now on and its on in a BIG way. Justice will be served no matter what. this crime will NOT go unpunished.
 
the jugde should change the charges to second degree murder...it would be the fair thing to do...
 
I don't think Kathrine Jackson in the court room isn't helping the case at all. She knew the defense team is paint her son as an addict. She is too emotional to handle the case. I hope the prosecutor is not biting any the craps from defense team and stay focus on manslaughter charge.
 
What about voluntary manslaughter? Anyone care to explain the chances of those charges? Comparing to 2nd murder and involuntary manslaughter. On the basis of what we've heard so far that is...
 
These charges need to be changed, we learned so much in these past two days, this guy fucked Michael up from the time got home on June 24 2009.
 
man they need to inject his ass up with the same s*** he gave mike, leave him for two minutes unmonitored then when he gets his allergic reaction, wait twenty minutes to call 911 (and dont forget, only give him cpr with one hand on a bed) and let's see how he likes that. second choice, charge this lier with first degree murder.
 
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Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but it isn't gonna happen, the reason it's involuntary manslaughter is because it would be the easiest to charge, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to prove in a court of law that Murray intended to inflict harm on Michael Jackson, they have no evidence to support that, and honestly i think he deserves jail time, even if it is 4 years
 
Billie Jean 78 said:
What about voluntary manslaughter? Anyone care to explain the chances of those charges? Comparing to 2nd murder and involuntary manslaughter. On the basis of what we've heard so far that is...
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Ok if i explain this hopefully you will see why he was charged with Involuntary Manslaughter.

Involuntary Manslaughter: Killing a person without the intent to inflict any harm whatsoever on the victim yet failed to realize their actions would result in death.

Voluntary Manslaughter: Killing a person without intending to kill them in the first place, but were intending to inflict harm on the victim, and in the heat of the moment failed to realize their actions would result in death.

2nd Degree Murder: The killing, of a human being, by another human being, with malice aforethought, which means the person who is going to kill must have the intent to kill, intend to inflict grievous bodily harm, reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life and the intent to commit a dangerous felony

Of course, there is NO way to prove Dr Murray intended to hurt Michael let alone intend to KILL him
 
larry141094 said:
Ok if i explain this hopefully you will see why he was charged with Involuntary Manslaughter.

Involuntary Manslaughter: Killing a person without the intent to inflict any harm whatsoever on the victim yet failed to realize their actions would result in death.

Voluntary Manslaughter: Killing a person without intending to kill them in the first place, but were intending to inflict harm on the victim, and in the heat of the moment failed to realize their actions would result in death.

2nd Degree Murder: The killing, of a human being, by another human being, with malice aforethought, which means the person who is going to kill must have the intent to kill, intend to inflict grievous bodily harm, reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life and the intent to commit a dangerous felony

Of course, there is NO way to prove Dr Murray intended to hurt Michael let alone intend to KILL him
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Actually, no. In the state of California, it's defined this way (with link):

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as "1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life". http://criminal.find...ond_degree.html

In that sense, for example, a drunk driver who causes an accident with fatalities may be charged with second-degree murder, depending on the degree of recklessness and the severity of the accident.

The testimony thus far indicates that Murray's conduct was dangerous (the propofol and lack of proper equipment), and he had an obvious lack of concern for human life. . . .in many, many respects that have come out in court.

It's well within the boundaries of the definition to charge him with second-degree murder.

For those who think Murray should be charged with second-degree murder, please sign the petition, here: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101656

Thanks.
 
larry141094 said:
Ok if i explain this hopefully you will see why he was charged with Involuntary Manslaughter.

Involuntary Manslaughter: Killing a person without the intent to inflict any harm whatsoever on the victim yet failed to realize their actions would result in death.

Voluntary Manslaughter: Killing a person without intending to kill them in the first place, but were intending to inflict harm on the victim, and in the heat of the moment failed to realize their actions would result in death.

2nd Degree Murder: The killing, of a human being, by another human being, with malice aforethought, which means the person who is going to kill must have the intent to kill, intend to inflict grievous bodily harm, reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life and the intent to commit a dangerous felony

Of course, there is NO way to prove Dr Murray intended to hurt Michael let alone intend to KILL him
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Thank you for the explanation! But you see, this is the part I'm having troubles with: How could Murray have thought that his actions wouldn't result in death?
- giving a huge amount of propofol to a patient?
- A mixed combination with other drugs?
- Not having proper equipment (for resuscitation)?
- Leaving the patient unattended while under propofol?
- Waiting 20+ minutes before even calling 911?
- Not knowing how to properly give CPR??
- And finally not telling what drugs were in Michael's system?

How could he possibly believe that all these actions would not harm Michael? I mean seriously!

Autum II:
Thanx for the definition!! The second part of it would indeed justify murder 2nd, as far as I understand it!
 
Billie Jean 78 said:
Thank you for the explanation! But you see, this is the part I'm having troubles with: How could Murray have thought that his actions wouldn't result in death?
- giving a huge amount of propofol to a patient?
- A mixed combination with other drugs?
- Not having proper equipment (for resuscitation)?
- Leaving the patient unattended while under propofol?
- Waiting 20+ minutes before even calling 911?
- Not knowing how to properly give CPR??
- And finally not telling what drugs were in Michael's system?

How could he possibly believe that all these actions would not harm Michael? I mean seriously!

Autum II:
Thanx for the definition!! The second part of it would indeed justify murder 2nd, as far as I understand it!
Click to expand...

I'm not understanding where that first definition is coming from? (there's no link), but if you look up "Murder 2 California," you'll see that, given the testimony, the charges FIT Murder 2, and not Involuntary Manslaughter.
 
Autumn II said:
I'm not understanding where that first definition is coming from? (there's no link), but if you look up "Murder 2 California," you'll see that, given the testimony, the charges FIT Murder 2, and not Involuntary Manslaughter.
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Do you know anything about the possibility to convict a person with a lesser charge, for example IVM, IF he was charged with murder 2, but the jury didn't get him convicted on murder 2? And if yes, would there have to be a second trial for that?

Can the prosecution decide to try someone again, if the jury didn't convict or if it was a hung jury?
 
Billie Jean 78 said:
Do you know anything about the possibility to convict a person with a lesser charge, for example IVM, IF he was charged with murder 2, but the jury didn't get him convicted on murder 2? And if yes, would there have to be a second trial for that?

Can the prosecution decide to try someone again, if the jury didn't convict or if it was a hung jury?
Click to expand...

I would also like to know the answers to these questions.
 
Look i understand where your coming from, but again, justice WILL NOT be done if the stakes are raised, the easiest conviction is Involuntary Manslaughter, and even in the state of California it needs to be Guilty beyond reasonable doubt, look back at cases in history, the OJ case, there was DNA and other evidence pointing to him as the murderer, i mean to any normal person he did it, the thing that got him off was that there was DOUBT as to his whereabouts that night, none of the witnesses were able to pin him down to the same place... so it was NOT GUILTY, even the 2005 People v Jackson case, the fact is there was absolutely no evidence of anything, no evidence that he was guilty and no evidence that he was innocent, and in that sense he was found NOT GUILTY, and at this very moment im guessing with the testimony given, it will either be NOT GUILTY or he will be found GUILTY and get out on Parole.

And in response to billiejean, if they wanted to they COULD Appeal, but im not sure on what grounds they would be able to Appeal on.
 
Thanks for your insights Larry :) I think with hearing all these horrific details about all that Michael had to endure, which all seems so unnecessary and preventable, people just want more than this lousy accusation of involuntary manslaughter. You're probably right about the chances of success for the prosecutor being higher when the accusation is not as strong as 2nd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter. What I still don't understand is how Murray was able to keep practising medicine after this enormous professional failure. If I were him I wouldn't trust myself anymore. Apparently he does, and the officials do so too.
 
Roosje said:
Thanks for your insights Larry :) I think with hearing all these horrific details about all that Michael had to endure, which all seems so unnecessary and preventable, people just want more than this lousy accusation of involuntary manslaughter. You're probably right about the chances of success for the prosecutor being higher when the accusation is not as strong as 2nd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter. What I still don't understand is how Murray was able to keep practising medicine after this enormous professional failure. If I were him I wouldn't trust myself anymore. Apparently he does, and the officials do so too.
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Because he proved he could do proper CPR and save a life, he saved a woman on a plane several months back, remember?
 
Yes, but this was way after it was decided he could keep practising medicine. This should have been prevented right after June 25th, imo. Or as soon as was clear he messed up, and it turns out that was clear quite soon. Sure, even doctors make mistakes. But he made mistake upon mistake, while doing things unsafely.
 
^Well, Plato's Theory of Forms only tells me we should strive for more clarity in this weird world we live in, because such clarity does exist somewhere. And this should mean justice for Michael and no more playing doctor for Murray.
 
larry141094 said:
Look i understand where your coming from, but again, justice WILL NOT be done if the stakes are raised, the easiest conviction is Involuntary Manslaughter, and even in the state of California it needs to be Guilty beyond reasonable doubt, look back at cases in history, the OJ case, there was DNA and other evidence pointing to him as the murderer, i mean to any normal person he did it, the thing that got him off was that there was DOUBT as to his whereabouts that night, none of the witnesses were able to pin him down to the same place... so it was NOT GUILTY, even the 2005 People v Jackson case, the fact is there was absolutely no evidence of anything, no evidence that he was guilty and no evidence that he was innocent, and in that sense he was found NOT GUILTY, and at this very moment im guessing with the testimony given, it will either be NOT GUILTY or he will be found GUILTY and get out on Parole.

And in response to billiejean, if they wanted to they COULD Appeal, but im not sure on what grounds they would be able to Appeal on.
Click to expand...

Isn't there evidence, that he waited for 20+ minutes before calling 911? Isn't there evidence, that he gave Michael a huge amount of drugs (based on the coroners rapport and considering he couldn't have injected himself)? Isn't there evidence that he gave CPR wrong?
 
old news, but just wanted to share it...

she also said "conscious disregard for human life" = murder. So I guess the IM charges we have now means that conrad consciously leaving michael with a bunch of dangerous chemicals shows he wasn't consciously disregarding human life....

2:30 "Much higher level than IM"
 
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