What are the effects of propofol daily?

StacyJ

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I bet MJ is the only person ever in the world who received propofol nightly for insomnia.. Does anyone know what the neurological effects of that would be? Did Murray even research the effects of that? and also will that be something the experts will testify to during trial that Murray slowly poisened MJ to death
 
google is your friend! idoubt he was giving it to him all the time. but let him say that. the pros will just use it against him
 
google is your friend! idoubt he was giving it to him all the time. but let him say that. the pros will just use it against him


He ordered 255 vials of it all total for a 2 month period. I'm thinking he used a lot of it. MJ was losing weight and looking thinner around May-June. That's when he started to miss rehearsals. It sounds to me like Murray was poisening MJ and it started to take effect. MJ's central nervous system was obviously affected because of the whole 'hot/cold' thing. I just don't understand why Murray didn't see the effects and if he did why didn't he stop? All he had to say is MJ is having a bad reaction to this stuff, this will end now, yet he continued to give it to him. It's just awful
 
google is your friend! idoubt he was giving it to him all the time. but let him say that. the pros will just use it against him

True.. if he admits to giving his patient anesthesia daily without monitoring him and as a sleep aid it can't bode well for him at all
 
He ordered 255 vials of it all total for a 2 month period. I'm thinking he used a lot of it. MJ was losing weight and looking thinner around May-June. That's when he started to miss rehearsals. It sounds to me like Murray was poisening MJ and it started to take effect. MJ's central nervous system was obviously affected because of the whole 'hot/cold' thing. I just don't understand why Murray didn't see the effects and if he did why didn't he stop? All he had to say is MJ is having a bad reaction to this stuff, this will end now, yet he continued to give it to him. It's just awful

I agree:yes:
 
So I Googled it! lol

Propofol

All medicines may cause side effects, but many people have no, or minor, side effects. Check with your doctor if any of these most COMMON side effects persist or become bothersome when using Propofol:
Change in mood or emotions; dizziness; drowsiness; lack of coordination.
Seek medical attention right away if any of these SEVERE side effects occur when using Propofol:
Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); cough; feeling faint; itching; pain, redness, or swelling at the injection site; wheezing.
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/propofol-side-effects.html
 
thanks bluetopez..

Sounds like MJ had some of these side effects but Murray did nothing about it and he acted like he didn't even care
 
StacyJ;3192801 said:
He ordered 255 vials of it all total for a 2 month period. I'm thinking he used a lot of it. MJ was losing weight and looking thinner around May-June. That's when he started to miss rehearsals. It sounds to me like Murray was poisening MJ and it started to take effect. MJ's central nervous system was obviously affected because of the whole 'hot/cold' thing. I just don't understand why Murray didn't see the effects and if he did why didn't he stop? All he had to say is MJ is having a bad reaction to this stuff, this will end now, yet he continued to give it to him. It's just awful
Agree

I found this today:

“There is a very narrow window between getting high, going unconscious, and dying, when it comes to Propofol,” Dr. Earley told Anesthesiology News. “Only a few cc's more than what's required to put a person to sleep can trigger fatal respiratory arrest. We see impaired professionals who have contusions on their face or body. That’s because they fell unconscious at a desk and hit their face, or literally fell out of a chair. And as you develop a tolerance to the drug, you need more to get high, and that brings someone close to the lethal level.”
[..]
Three years ago, Wischmeyer began the first formal study of Propofol addiction in the medical community, “A Survey of Propofol Abuse in Academic Anesthesia Programs.” One hundred and twenty-six anesthesia departments across the U.S. participated, according to Anesthesiology News. Twenty percent admitted having encountered an addiction problem among staff. Although the numbers were small—25 abusers—Wischmeyer calculated a fivefold increase in Propofol abuse over the past decade. Nearly 40 percent of residents who abused Propofol ended up dead. Others, when confronted, left the medical field instead of staying in a line of work that put them in regular contact with such a powerful addictive substance.

Source: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-06/americas-new-drug-addiction/

You can find the abstract ofthe "Survey of Propofol Abuse in Academic Anesthesia Programs" here: http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/content/105/4/1066.abstract

These don't explain the effects of the daily use of propofol, but they do confirm one can abuse it. If anesthesiologist fall into this trap, you can expect this in patients too, imo :no:
 
I just don't understand why Murray didn't see the effects and if he did why didn't he stop? All he had to say is MJ is having a bad reaction to this stuff, this will end now, yet he continued to give it to him. It's just awful
u really thnk he bothered to do research? as if. this is theman that was giving mj highly addictive benozos then says he was worried about the diprivan!
 
u really thnk he bothered to do research? as if. this is theman that was giving mj highly addictive benozos then says he was worried about the diprivan!
Indeed.
One can help but wonder what was the agenda of this fellow. I mean, seriously, what was the trying to do to Michael????? :mello:
 
you really think MJ could have survived 8 hours of propofol drip? when was MJ that lucky?
 
you really think MJ could have survived 8 hours of propofol drip? when was MJ that lucky?

so you don't think Murray ever gave it that way? Considering Murray's actions and his incompetence I would like to know if he left MJ alone all the other times he adminstered propofol? if he had to pee that night on June 25th, what did he do all the other nights?. Also he claims he only gave MJ 25mgs which according to the coroner would only put MJ under for 2-5 minutes.. Why couldn't Murray go to the bathroom first before he put MJ under if he was only going to put him out for 2 minutes? he could've went to pee and then came back to MJ instead of putting MJ under and then leaving. You never leave your patient. And then if you do why not having monitoring equipment that could signal danger? Murray was reckless any way you look at it.
 
You are talking to someone who does not believe Murray left MJ after he injected him, so I won't answer that.

I'm re reading Flagans questions, they brought up the term CONSCIOUS SEDATION, we talked about it before here. this is the kind of sedation where less than 2% of patients need to be intubated , maybe that's how they are going to explain the very small doses of propofol he used.
 
Neil Ratner, the doctor who accompanied Michael on the HIStory tour, wouldn't talk to media at all, and to my knowledge, never has. CNN tried to talk to him (I saw it), but he fled into his house and said "no comment." Personally, and given the media-messes during the trial, I trust NO "sources said" reporting. Especially (but not limited to) CNN. During the trial CNN got info from tabloids, i.e. the "voodoo" craziness! Unless Ratner testifies under oath at Murray's trial, I'd put this in the "voodoo" category of stories. ("Sources close to Jackson" could be absolutely ANYBODY. Or nobody?)

@font-face { font-family: "Times"; }@font-face { font-family: "Cambria"; }p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; } "Michael Jackson traveled with what amounted to a mini-clinic, complete with an IV pole and an anesthesiologist who medicated the insomniac singer, during his HIStory tour in the mid-90s, sources close to Jackson told CNN Thursday.

On Thursday, the California attorney general's office said that it is helping the Los Angeles Police Department in the death investigation.

The anesthesiologist who accompanied Jackson during the 82-date world tour in 1996 and 1997 was Dr. Neil Ratner, the sources said.

They said Ratner would keep medical equipment in his hotel room, which he used to monitor Jackson's vital signs when the singer was asleep or "under," as one source put it.


The doctor apparently said Jackson had trouble sleeping and that Ratner helped "take him down" and "bring him back up," according to the source.

Ratner confirmed to CNN that Jackson suffered from a sleep disorder, but refused to address any of the other allegations.



"It's really something I don't want to talk about right now," he said outside his Woodstock, New York, home Thursday.


Ratner was stripped of his license to practice medicine for three years in 2002 after he was found guilty of insurance fraud."



Sources: http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/07/03/jackson.wrap/index.html

http://askville.amazon.com/Neil-Ratner-drug-Michael-Jackson/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=54963460
 
What I find hard to understand is that if MJ was suffering from a sleep disorder since the mid 1990's, why didn't anyone get him some real help? all of those doctors were willing to drug him up but not one of them would refer him to a sleep specialist? why didn't MJ go to a sleep specialist?

This whole thing just pisses me off so badly. Mike should still be with us. Why didn't anyone care enough about him? His mother didn't know about this sleeping disorder? Didn't she go with him on the History tour? She wasn't aware of Dr Ratner? I am just shocked that no one knew about the treatments MJ was receiving for a sleep disorder?

Why didn't the maids, the chef and the bodyguards question the oxygen tanks and the IV poles? They had to see Murray coming and going. Why didn't they question anything?
 
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oxygen tanks and the IV poles

oxygen tanks had nothing to do with propofol. That jerk Row asked Kai about them, he was indicating a healthy man would not need oxygen tanks.

Oxygen tanks were first reported during the BAD tour , IV poles were also reported back then , none of them had anything to do with propofol. MJ was dehydrated and had some times difficulty breathing.

The guy was hospitalized twice for dehydration, so nothing strange. Amir did say MJ never asked him to buy drugs, never asked him to use his name as an alias, he only brought a prescription from Klien once, MJ did not tell him about his insomnia but he was aware , did notice MJ had sleep issues
 
oxygen tanks had nothing to do with propofol. That jerk Row asked Kai about them, he was indicating a healthy man would not need oxygen tanks.

Oxygen tanks were first reported during the BAD tour , IV poles were also reported back then , none of them had anything to do with propofol. MJ was dehydrated and had some times difficulty breathing.

The guy was hospitalized twice for dehydration, so nothing strange. Amir did say MJ never asked him to buy drugs, never asked him to use his name as an alias, he only brought a prescription from Klien once, MJ did not tell him about his insomnia but he was aware , did notice MJ had sleep issues

Mike did not need to be doing any more big shows if he needed all of this stuff. He should've scaled down everything and did some theatre shows sitting on a stool. If he knew that performing would do this to him, he should have never agreed to such a large scale production.
 
yeah well i guess he wanted to please ppl like u after all u spent the last 5 years or so moaning that he wasnt doing anything and was spending to much time with his kids
 
yeah well i guess he wanted to please ppl like u after all u spent the last 5 years or so moaning that he wasnt doing anything and was spending to much time with his kids

elusive,

If I and other fans had any idea MJ had to be knocked out into a coma like state to sleep, do you honestly think we would've wanted him to work again? I had always said if he didn't want to do it, he should just announce his retirement in the music and performing industry and do whatever else he wanted to do with movies. I just did not want him going out after the trial leaving his legacy in tatters. But if I had any clue he would be dead right now , you best believe I would've wanted him to stay in Bahrain and never return.
 
Maybe now more can finally realize that touring meant hell to him as he often expressed into words... And maybe... just maybe.. or for real, had the concerts remained 10 in number as he originally was up for, instead of adding 40 (!) more, he would not have needed all that and his insomnia wouldn't have gotten as bad as it became. The "No more shows, Randy, no more shows..." plea to a person by the name of Randy Philips will always be haunting and revealing. As will the "They were mean.. just so mean" lament when he told them (who else, than AEG) that he wants more concerts postponed... One concert only did he postpone, and the world got bunkers, petitions even started being created, the AGE mess caused by Dileo erupted too, family members hounding him with going on tour with them too, fans following him everywhere asking him to perform in their countries, begging him, the media catching fire, of course, the mockery on the rise, the unreasonable lawsuits on the rise, only his heart knew what that madness did to it. And how literally superhuman you must be to endure all that and be able to sleep at least for a couple of hours without some sleep aids. Even if some people had said / written on banners, "No, Michael, you don't have to do this for us, you've been on stage since age 5, you need to breathe, you had a trial you managed to survive that left you scarred forever, you need to live for you, not us", AEG weren't gonna care, the demand was high and "you can't disapoint the audience", and us, it was a do-or-die thing like they explicitly said. It has to be impossible heading for rehearsals tired and without at least the impression that you had a little sleep. So, of course, that makes the patient vulnerable, all they want is be able to sleep a bit, it's human, but nothing worked for him, nothing works for insomniacs and they wake up the next morning trashed and plain legumes, and I can attest to that, and the pressures I had to deal were nothing compared to his. Otherwise, one would not have asked for Propofol. It's very obvious how severe, and justifiably so, his insomnia was, but Murray, of course, didn't care at all about him, as he filled him with medication and Propofol, who wasn't for treating insomnia, and let him die; if he at least had the proper equipment for monitoring him, he would have lived somehow. If he told AEG as his personal doctor, that "Look, my patient is unable to sleep, I have to put him under for that, he needs treatment for his insomnia, can't you reduce the number of concerts he has to perform, or at least postpone them? He's feeling hot and cold too.." Instead he told Ortega he need not worry about his patient. He just didn't stand a chance with a person like Murray by his side, who cared about his money as AEG did whether they're in this together or not.
..
 
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Maybe now more can finally realize that touring meant hell to him as he often expressed into words... And maybe... just maybe.. or for real, had the concerts remained 10 in number as he originally was up for, instead of adding 40 (!) more, he would not have needed all that and his insomnia wouldn't have gotten as bad as it became. The "No more shows, Randy, no more shows..." plea to a person by the name of Randy Philips will always be haunting and revealing. As will the "They were mean.. just so mean" lament when he told them (who else, than AEG) that he wants more concerts postponed... One concert only did he postpone, and the world got bunkers, petitions even started being created, the AGE mess caused by Dileo erupted too, family members hounding him with going on tour with them too, fans following him everywhere asking him to perform in their countries, begging him, the media catching fire, of course, the mockery on the rise, the unreasonable lawsuits on the rise, only his heart knew what that madness did to it. And how literally superhuman you must be to endure all that and be able to sleep at least for a couple of hours without some sleep aids. Even if some people had said / written on banners, "No, Michael, you don't have to do this for us, you've been on stage since age 5, you need to breathe, you had a trial you managed to survive that left you scarred forever, you need to live for you, not us", AEG weren't gonna care, the demand was high and "you can't disapoint the audience", and us, it was a do-or-die thing like they explicitly said. It has to be impossible heading for rehearsals tired and without at least the impression that you had a little sleep. So, of course, that makes the patient vulnerable, all they want is be able to sleep a bit, it's human, but nothing worked for him, nothing works for insomniacs and they wake up the next morning trashed and plain legumes, and I can attest to that, and the pressures I had to deal were nothing compared to his. Otherwise, one would not have asked for Propofol. It's very obvious how severe, and justifiably so, his insomnia was, but Murray, of course, didn't care at all about him, as he filled him with medication and Propofol, who wasn't for treating insomnia, and let him die; if he at least had the proper equipment for monitoring him, he would have lived somehow. If he told AEG as his personal doctor, that "Look, my patient is unable to sleep, I have to put him under for that, he needs treatment for his insomnia, can't you reduce the number of concerts he has to perform, or at least postpone them? He's feeling hot and cold too.." Instead he told Ortega he need not worry about his patient. He just didn't stand a chance with a person like Murray by his side, who cared about his money as AEG did whether they're in this together or not.
..



The problem is that Michael never agreed to just ten shows. If you bothered to read the contract instead of listening to the family's mouth pieces his contract had a min of 18 and a max of 38. Which meant if the shows sold well he would be doing at least 38 shows not 10. He actually may had been upset if he could only do 18 because that meant there was little demand for him to perform.

Also, where the heck did the quotes "No more shows, Randy, no more shows..." plea come from, along with, "They were mean.. just so mean"? Randy P never said that and neither did Michael. Unless you are quoting TINI crap.

Even if that was true, Michael signed a contract and like any grown man he was obligated to follow it. If he didn't, he should had suck it up himself and too the lawsuit. And even though Stacy/Kaymon gets on my nerves, she brings a point that I have been saying for over a year. If it was too many date, he should had scale back. He didn't need the 3D scene, invented dancing, ect. AEG wouldn't care as long as he put on a show. He was the one who called Kenny at 4am adding to the shows and new ideas. So Michael is partly to blame for his own pressure if you're going by that.

I am not saying he should or shouldn't downsize since it was his art and his choice at the end of the day. Maybe he didn't want to do a unplug and saw it as too small. More than a few people say he wouldn't tour unless it was something big. He also wanted his children to see him perform and I will never fault him for that.


PS Stacy, don't make me go to KOP and post how you got on Michael for spending time with his own kids and how you wanted Michael to record again not even a year after the 2005 trial.
 
i doubt this daily idea...Murray is liying

and Michael always pressured himself...he always wanted to improve himself...and that meant bringing that body to its limit...

but we all love him for that, he push bounderies and he loved what he was doing:)
 
The problem is that Michael never agreed to just ten shows. If you bothered to read the contract instead of listening to the family's mouth pieces his contract had a min of 18 and a max of 38. Which meant if the shows sold well he would be doing at least 38 shows not 10. He actually may had been upset if he could only do 18 because that meant there was little demand for him to perform.

There were 10 shows only in the beginning, and there were London posters and members here attesting to that there were 10. Also, Autumn II from this forum can attest to that Michael himself said he only wanted 10 shows for London, and eventually maybe take the tour elsewhere. AEG hurried to put tickets on sale right after the press conference, the money were dancing in their eyes. He may have agreed to 31 shows, due to 'high demand', how do you conclude that he may have been upset if he couldn't do more shows? Were you there? Were you there also when he signed the contract and in what circumstances he signed them? Also, what impression did the March 5 press conference left to you? But I digress way too much...


Also, where the heck did the quotes "No more shows, Randy, no more shows..." plea come from, along with, "They were mean.. just so mean"? Randy P never said that and neither did Michael. Unless you are quoting TINI crap..

I shouldn't even bother reply to such rude questions, as if I were a threat or something, to AEG, or God knows, by such reactions, but I will. Not quoting any TINI 'crap', as I once browsed it and can't recall any concrete thing from that campaign. Randy Philips very much said that when they added concerts amounting to 50. In an interview, where he said about Jackson being 'emotional' on the phone because of the huge demand, after which he made that plea. If someone can help me with that quotation, as I can't find the interview at the mo, I'd be grateful. But he very much said that. The "They were so mean" quote comes from an assistant that met MJ in Klein's office two weeks before he passed, if that was the exact location, but for the life of me, I can't find that either anywhere. Just the luck.


Even if that was true, Michael signed a contract and like any grown man he was obligated to follow it. If he didn't, he should had suck it up himself and too the lawsuit. And even though Stacy/Kaymon gets on my nerves, she brings a point that I have been saying for over a year. If it was too many date, he should had scale back. He didn't need the 3D scene, invented dancing, ect. AEG wouldn't care as long as he put on a show. He was the one who called Kenny at 4am adding to the shows and new ideas. So Michael is partly to blame for his own pressure if you're going by that.

With lack of empathy like that, .. yeah, no worth even saying anything more. How do you know Jackson didn't try to scale back? He didn't even finish his rehearsals, didn't have all the sets and costumes fittings ready, he didn't get the time to, because AEG set the date for the shows without a care that a perfectionist Jackson, who was to satisfy lots of different tastes, couldn't possibly finish all he had in mind in that short a time. Nobody could. Before coming to say such rushed things like "Oh, he should've just sit still with only a microphone in his hand", you weren't on his mind that thought about all of his fans, again, people with different tastes, that were going to be dissatisfied with "Just" that and would have demanded more effort on his behalf: for his first concerts in 12 years. Some were saying things like "Stick a fork at him", when the much anticipated new album wasn't ready for them or when "Hold My Hand" was leaked, which many didn't really like. All the hungry masses. Can you blame a generous person like him - a human being, at the end of the day, for wanting things to look at least close to perfect? Seriously, you should step back in time and imagine how a more 'selfish' Jackson would have appeared to a world already dissecting his every move and a media Waiting for him to fail when they all wanted him to deliver, all wanted something from him. To a media who was often devilishly estimating the number of months Jackson had to live on this earth. Then come back and review your posts. If you just care about rough facts, stick to them, but show more respect to a man who is dead at the hands of another, to a man who was like a machine to many, an institution to most, a delivering service-machine who had every inch of his body and life dissected and most wanted something from.

~ People also shouldn't be privvy in a public discussion about one's personal feelings about particular members, that they get on your nerves or whatever..

[/QUOTE]
I am not saying he should or shouldn't downsize since it was his art and his choice .

[/QUOTE]

You just did.. Again, try to tell a man attacked from all sides, and even called lazy by many at that time, for not releasing his new album faster, that he should have done as he pleased, meaning only studio albums, movies.. Even on his own forums, some'd call him incapable of coming up with something new, of appearing to the Grammies, for example, of finishing the 50 shows, foreboding evil, yet many of the same were pressuring for more 'This Is It' tickets to go on sale/. He did take his time, to also be a father, and many were saying they got sick and tired of waiting and of hearing of sightings of him only, and saying things like "I hope the new song/album won't be Heal The World-type of song/album", "I hope it will be a club-banger", "I want more club-bangers" to whom just a Jackson with a mick in the hand and a spotlight on would have been a Huge let-down.

[/QUOTE]He also wanted his children to see him perform and I will never fault him for that.[/QUOTE]

Of course. Then add this to the mentioned pressures, and process that even a strong, grown man like Jackson wasn't superhuman... but many wanted him to be just that, to cater to their wants, Or they would've pulled the plug on him before he got to say the word. One concert... again, just one concert postponed, and Jackson was toast in the eyes of many, a has-been, that word was used so many times, it would hurt a peach even, many threatened to quit being his fan and called him selfish => more and more pressures... How could he just say "Eff it all off"? This was a man who couldn't trust but his mother, he told her, meaning he didn't think he was sincerely, unconditionally loved by others except for her and his children, it's gotta be inhumane to have all tug at you for favors, at the end.

.....

Wasn't this thread about the effects of Propofol?... The anesthetic, administered by his doctor, that killed Jackson? Yeah, and it should stay about that.

Also, Murray couldn't have given him Propofol daily, with Jackson phoning people in the middle of the night, like Ortega. regardless, Murray's carelessness in possessing an equipment fit for that anesthetic speaks volumes, he just didn't concern himself over his patient's safety, although he saw he was unwell, all he saw was dollars, for dollars he also left all of his other patients. One's gotta be desperate for money to (wanna be) this careless.
 
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Please this is not the conspiracy section. The contract is available to everyone to read, minimum was 18 shows, and maximum was 38.

from 38 to 50 was not a huge increase, especially with the two months break . Stick to facts please, this is not the conspiracy section where unproven claims can be tolerated.
 
There were 10 shows only in the beginning, and there were London posters and members here attesting to that there were 10.
its called promotion and PR. u anounce a small amount of shows to create excitement and hype so ppl say wow i need to get a ticket for that. it creates a rush. then promoters can use the more shows added because of public demand statements for more good P.R. its a far better way to do things than announcing 50 shows in one go and not all of them selling out.its the basics of promoting any sort of concert

and as soundmind and others say. the contract is there for all to see. the only issue i have is who said yes to the xtra 19 shows? thome or mj?
 
elusive,

If I and other fans had any idea MJ had to be knocked out into a coma like state to sleep, do you honestly think we would've wanted him to work again? I had always said if he didn't want to do it, he should just announce his retirement in the music and performing industry and do whatever else he wanted to do with movies. I just did not want him going out after the trial leaving his legacy in tatters. But if I had any clue he would be dead right now , you best believe I would've wanted him to stay in Bahrain and never return.
:smilerolleyes:sorry but u set your stall out along time ago on kop board with your attitude towards mj. and why u were banned on here under another name. it was his desire to please ppl like you that helped to lead us to this situation
 
the only issue i have is who said yes to the xtra 19 shows? thome or mj?

MJ was telling people he wanted to take the shows to India and Japan, does that seem like a forced guy? If he wanted to perform in India and Japan, why would not he perform extra concerts in London?
 
MJ was telling people he wanted to take the shows to India and Japan, does that seem like a forced guy? If he wanted to perform in India and Japan, why would not he perform extra concerts in London?

True..
 
:smilerolleyes:sorry but u set your stall out along time ago on kop board with your attitude towards mj. and why u were banned on here under another name. it was his desire to please ppl like you that helped to lead us to this situation

Come on elusive.. I am not the only fan that wanted MJ to make a comeback and you know it. Weren't you one of the first ones to get a ticket when the shows were announced in your home town?
 
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