The Thriller Outtakes and Demos [Discussion]

Themidwestcowboy

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This is a thread I have been wanting to start for some time now. As we all know Michael was a prolific and productive artist, recording hundreds of songs for his projects. Songs were omitted because they didn't possess the star potential to compete for a place on his albums, but many, many songs were undoubtedly amazing but were left off because they didn't correlate with a certain theme or concept, and then there were songs that got left off for whatever reason despite being stronger than a lot of the material that did end up on his LP's.

Now I was listening to some of the outtakes from Thriller and it completely dawned upon me that there were some really weak songs being recorded, and even considered, during those sessions (no disrespect!) I'm thinking about that quote from quincy where he said something along the lines that he "sorted through hundreds of songs and picked the songs that he thought would suit Michael". Do you think it has something to do with Michael not being the writer, or co-writer, for some of those songs?

Let's take a chronological trip from his last official album all the way down to Thriller and look at some outtakes

Invincible
A Place With No Name
Hollywood Tonight
The Way You Love Me
We've Had Enough
Another Day
Chicago
Fall Again
Beautiful Girl
Xscape



History
Morphine
Is It Scary
Ghosts
In The Back
Much Too Soon
On The Line
Why?



Dangerous
Someone Put Your Hand Out
Earth Song
They Don't Care About Us
Blood On The Dancefloor
Superfly Sister
Serious Effect
Monkey Bussiness
Joy
If You Don't Love Me

Work That Body
Satisfy You


Bad
Cheater
Do You Know Where Your Children Are
Price Of Fame
I'm So Blue
Al Capone
Abortion Papers
Streetwalker
Fly Away
Leave Me Alone(Unreleased until it got released as a bonus track)
Scared Of The Moon
We Are Here To Change The World
Someone Put Your Hand Down


Thriller
Niteline
Carousel
Hot Street
Slapstick
Trouble
Behind The Mask
The Girl Is Mine Demo


From Bad up to Invicible he could have released double albums that would have been as good as the official ones. I'm dead serious. Amazing top notch material. Thriller on the other hand is a different story. Now we haven't heard all the outtakes from thriller and I imagine some hidden gems there but I am not impressed by the songs that we have heard so far..

The Girl is mine Demo and Behind The Mask are the only songs that I would consider album worthy tracks. These were written or co-written by Michael and they are great. But songs like, niteline or trouble or even carousel doesn't sit quite right with me. I was shocked to hear that Carousel competed with Human Nature for a spot on the album. In what universe is Carousel better or better fitted than Human Nature?

Another question I have is why do we have so few unreleased songs from the Thriller sessions? I am really interested in the demos he wrote and worked on at home in hayvenhurst. We need more thriller tracks!
 
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Niteline... I hope to ever hear this in decent quality. On of my favorit outtakes.

we already have it in pretty high quality..

And to OP, i see that Joy is the only unheard song you included in your lists...
 
This is a thread I have been wanting to start for some time now. As we all know Michael was a prolific and productive artist, recording hundreds of songs for his projects. Songs were omitted because they didn't possess the star potential to compete for a place on his albums, but many, many songs were undoubtedly amazing but were left off because they didn't correlate with a certain theme or concept, and then there were songs that got left off for whatever reason despite being stronger than a lot of the material that did end up on his LP's.

Now I was listening to some of the outtakes from Thriller and it completely dawned upon me that there were some really weak songs being recorded, and even considered, during those sessions (no disrespect!) I'm thinking about that quote from quincy where he said something along the lines that he "sorted through hundreds of songs and picked the songs that he thought would suit Michael". Do you think it has something to do with Michael not being the writer, or co-writer, for some of those songs?

Let's take a chronological trip from his last official album all the way down to Thriller and look at some outtakes

Invincible
A Place With No Name
Hollywood Tonight
The Way You Love Me
We've Had Enough
Another Day
Chicago
Fall Again
Beautiful Girl
Xscape



History
Morphine
Is It Scary
Ghosts
In The Back
Much Too Soon
On The Line
Why?



Dangerous
Someone Put Your Hand Out
Earth Song
They Don't Care About Us
Blood On The Dancefloor
Superfly Sister
Serious Effect
Monkey Bussiness
Joy
If You Don't Love Me

Work That Body
Satisfy You


Bad
Cheater
Do You Know Where Your Children Are
Price Of Fame
I'm So Blue
Al Capone
Abortion Papers
Streetwalker
Fly Away
Leave Me Alone(Unreleased until it got released as a bonus track)
Scared Of The Moon
We Are Here To Change The World
Someone Put Your Hand Down


Thriller
Niteline
Carousel
Hot Street
Slapstick
Trouble
Behind The Mask
The Girl Is Mine Demo


From Bad up to Invicible he could have released double albums that would have been as good as the official ones. I'm dead serious. Amazing top notch material. Thriller on the other hand is a different story. Now we haven't heard all the outtakes from thriller and I imagine some hidden gems there but I am not impressed by the songs that we have heard so far..

The Girl is mine Demo and Behind The Mask are the only songs that I would consider album worthy tracks. These were written or co-written by Michael and they are great. But songs like, niteline or trouble or even carousel doesn't sit quite right with me. I was shocked to hear that Carousel competed with Human Nature for a spot on the album. In what universe is Carousel better or better fitted than Human Nature?

Another question I have is why do we have so few unreleased songs from the Thriller sessions? I am really interested in the demos he wrote and worked on at home in hayvenhurst. We need more thriller tracks!

Interesting observation Themidwestcowboy and you're definately onto something. It's worth noting that Michael really stepped up his game as a songwriter after Thriller. How many songs did he write on Thriller, WBSS, BJ, BI, TGIM... that's four, right? Skip to Bad and he wrote eight (nine if you include LMA) and then there's all the outtakes we've heard which were all written solely by MJ.


I think after Thrillers success it must've dawned on him that he didn't need the likes of Rod Temperton or other outside songwriters, as all the best songs on both OTW and Thriller were the ones MJ solely wrote.
 
Well what's your point Zakk?

My point, is that why include only one unheard song? it's better to include none of them, or some of them.. we will get them eventually, then lists can be made.. the end date of audio/visual releases i assume (hope) is very far away. Also 'Why' isn't an outtake from HIStory, Michael recorded the chorus and sent it off to Tito's kids to work on and was eventually released through Michael's label. You also missed out 'Shout' am i right in saying that 'One More Chance' is an Invincible outtake also?
 
Interesting observation Themidwestcowboy and you're definately onto something. It's worth noting that Michael really stepped up his game as a songwriter after Thriller. How many songs did he write on Thriller, WBSS, BJ, BI, TGIM... that's four, right? Skip to Bad and he wrote eight (nine if you include LMA) and then there's all the outtakes we've heard which were all written solely by MJ.


I think after Thrillers success it must've dawned on him that he didn't need the likes of Rod Temperton or other outside songwriters, as all the best songs on both OTW and Thriller were the ones MJ solely wrote.

Yes! Michael was an amazing songwriter and I'm happy that he broke out of his shell when working with Quincy. I see no harm in having two or three songs from outside writers but the majority of a Album most be written by MJ. Thwt's that.

Remember what he said in his book about being afraid to present songs in fear that they might get rejected? He waited with WBBS that was orginally for OTW. I wonder how many songs he held off of thriller.. Knowing how productive he was he probably recorded dozens of demos for thriller in hayyvenhurst.

Oh I forgot the PYT Demo. Woow, this is what I'm talking about. This is real quality material here and could have easily been on the album.
 
The outtakes for Thriller were honestly pretty awful. "Carousel" is the only exception - everything else is either weak or poorly written.
 
I wonder what's still in the vault from this era. Rolling the Dice for instance is one track I remember Michael mentioning during the Mexico Deposition.

From the tracks that we have I find Hot Street most enjoyable. A really nice, uptempo, typical Temperton track ("some young lovers, are laughing loud, and there's some, OWWLD suckas, tryna get down":punk:).

Trouble and Niteline are the weakest outtakes in my opinion. It's surprising to me that Michael recorded these. I would understand it if it was a song of his own that he was fooling around with (not everything that bubbles to the surface during the creative process is going to be great), but he actually picked them from a pile of tracks written by others. And Michael's version still sounds a lot better than the original writers' demos. Thinking about it, it kinda blows my mind that these songs were at one point considered for what would become the biggest selling album of all time. Makes you wonder what some of the other options were, if these were the ones he chose...
 
I honestly enjoy listening to the Thriller outtakes, but i enjoy anything created by Michael of course. I feel he was a blessing to the music industry, and it's a gift that we can hear some of his unpublished song's. His genius reached pretty far lengths in his lifetime, up until the end. Public interest at it's highest when 'Thriller' was released of course. The outtakes i enjoy most of all have to be 'Carousel'/'Hot Street' & 'Got The Hots' especially the latter. I love the groove and style of this song, Michael's vocals are lush. 'Nite Line' sounds a little like 'If You Don't Love Me' a Disney inspired song it feels like at times, but i can enjoy it for sure. Difference in regards to the 'BAD' era though, all the outtakes released as of now are album worthy song's. True testament to his genius.
 
I wonder what's still in the vault from this era. Rolling the Dice for instance is one track I remember Michael mentioning during the Mexico Deposition.

From the tracks that we have I find Hot Street most enjoyable. A really nice, uptempo, typical Temperton track ("some young lovers, are laughing loud, and there's some, OWWLD suckas, tryna get down":punk:).

Trouble and Niteline are the weakest outtakes in my opinion. It's surprising to me that Michael recorded these. I would understand it if it was a song of his own that he was fooling around with (not everything that bubbles to the surface during the creative process is going to be great), but he actually picked them from a pile of tracks written by others. And Michael's version still sounds a lot better than the original writers' demos. Thinking about it, it kinda blows my mind that these songs were at one point considered for what would become the biggest selling album of all time. Makes you wonder what some of the other options were, if these were the ones he chose...

Thaaaank you! This is exactly everything I have been trying to say. You really hit the nail.

Considering this became the world's best selling album of all time it's shocking that songs like trouble and niteline were even recorded. Even Toto's demo of Human Nature sounds a bit, hmm underwhelming but you can still hear the great melody and the beautiful instrumentation so the song had significant potential from the get go. But the other outtakes? The only thing redeeming these songs to a certain degree is Michael's flawless vocals.
 
Thaaaank you! This is exactly everything I have been trying to say. You really hit the nail.

Considering this became the world's best selling album of all time it's shocking that songs like trouble and niteline were even recorded. Even Toto's demo of Human Nature sounds a bit, hmm underwhelming but you can still hear the great melody and the beautiful instrumentation so the song had significant potential from the get go. But the other outtakes? The only thing redeeming these songs to a certain degree is Michael's flawless vocals.

I'm not sure you understand the demo process or the process for recording an album. I know the romantic idea is that albums like Thriller or Bad were recorded in one take with the only tracks that made the cut, but in reality, dozens if not hundred tracks will be recorded.

To say, "I can't believe these were considered" is like seeing the sketches that ended up in the bin for the Mona Lisa. That's all some of these songs were, sketches. To visualise how a song may end up, the singer will spend 30 minutes or so recording it, listen back and either dismiss is straight away or take it forward to 'round 2'. They were never meant to be heard by the public.

You don't know what will/will not work until you give it a go. Michael wasn't so arrogant to not give something a try, but the best thing is that he worked, and worked, and worked until the perfect album was made.
 
I'm not sure you understand the demo process or the process for recording an album. I know the romantic idea is that albums like Thriller or Bad were recorded in one take with the only tracks that made the cut, but in reality, dozens if not hundred tracks will be recorded.

To say, "I can't believe these were considered" is like seeing the sketches that ended up in the bin for the Mona Lisa. That's all some of these songs were, sketches. To visualise how a song may end up, the singer will spend 30 minutes or so recording it, listen back and either dismiss is straight away or take it forward to 'round 2'. They were never meant to be heard by the public.

You don't know what will/will not work until you give it a go. Michael wasn't so arrogant to not give something a try, but the best thing is that he worked, and worked, and worked until the perfect album was made.

I am very much aware of the process for recording an album Tony. Who ever said, or even believes, that an album is recorded in one take? That's ridiculous. You disregarded my entire premise. Of course there are a lot of trials and errors, trying out new things, new sounds and new approaches but the thriller outtakes sounds below of MJ's standards.

What gives you the impression that these outtakes were songs that they spend "30 minutes or so" recording? In fact there are multiple versions of the songs with different lyrics, different vocal takes, different instrumentations etc etc. This gives you the indication that they were working insistently on some of these songs. Slapstick turned into Hot Street, Carousel Girl was up for consideration, different versions of Trouble etc etc.

In The Back
Don't Be Messin Round
Free
She Got It
What About Us
People Of The World
Beautiful Girl
Fall Again


These songs are vocally incomplete and some of these songs are merely sketches and guidlines but you can still hear the greatness in them and the potential! I do not get that feeling when I listen to some of the Thriller outtakes. I am not claiming that the rest of the unreleased from the thriller sessions sounds like this, how could I when i haven't heard them, but the ones i have heard thus far does not sound album worthy as i said before. Esp not on an album like Thriller.

Take what you consider to be the weakest outtake from any album and compare it to the outtakes from thriller...
 
And that's why they are not on it!

This is what I wrote in the first post and this is what i'm trying to get at.

From Bad up to Invicible he could have released double albums that would have been as good as the official ones. I'm dead serious. Amazing top notch material. Thriller on the other hand is a different story. Now we haven't heard all the outtakes from thriller and I imagine some hidden gems there but I am not impressed by the songs that we have heard so far..

Edit: Except for the songs he himself wrote. PYT Demo, Behind The Mask and another that I can't recall now. Those songs are really amazing.
 
I'm not sure you understand the demo process or the process for recording an album. I know the romantic idea is that albums like Thriller or Bad were recorded in one take with the only tracks that made the cut, but in reality, dozens if not hundred tracks will be recorded.

To say, "I can't believe these were considered" is like seeing the sketches that ended up in the bin for the Mona Lisa. That's all some of these songs were, sketches. To visualise how a song may end up, the singer will spend 30 minutes or so recording it, listen back and either dismiss is straight away or take it forward to 'round 2'. They were never meant to be heard by the public.

You don't know what will/will not work until you give it a go. Michael wasn't so arrogant to not give something a try, but the best thing is that he worked, and worked, and worked until the perfect album was made.
I'm not sure if you are entirely aware of the history of these songs. They were both tracks written by others for Michael. The first time he heard them they were already recorded by the original writers (the tape with these original demos on them leaked in high quality in 2009). What we are saying is that to us it is surprising that Michael decided to 'take these songs to round 2' and record them himself. As Themidwestcowboy said, the writer's demo we have from Human Nature is in a similar early state, but you can hear that song had potential. Trouble and Niteline just sound very weak from a songwriting perspective imo, regardless of the early sparse demo production.
 
I enjoy listening to demos. - Of course they are not all very good - it's demos never meant to be heard... - BUT I love to get a glimpse behind the making of an album proces.

The more demos and outtakes I hear the more I admire MJ. - Thriller just proves that he had a genius musical ear - he knew what was good and what was not.

Remember Thriller is like 30 years old - those songs that we now in 2015 says are no good may have been great in 1981... - But MJ knew what would not only sound good today, but also in 50 years...

It's so very easy for us now 30 years later to judge the songs - which are good and which are bad (or just not so good) - but to know already back then what will be good in 30 years - that's genius !

Still I love demos - the creative proces, get a glimpse of the different directions he considered, the different styles of music etc. - People of the World still being my all time favorite. - Nearly no lyrics - but music blows you away- The choir, the emotions - simply everything.

In my opinion - Some of MJ's best demos like People of the World - which is maybe only half finished - songs like that is still more magical and musically great than most music released today. - Just imagine how perfect these songs could have been had MJ finished them and finalized them and released them. - I am very sure People of the World would be even better than Man in the Mirror and Heal the World. - In my opinion of course. 'Cause I love the demo !! :)
 
What do you guys know about this (I don't know whether to call it a demo or not)? Is it from the Thriller or Bad sessions? I haven't heard it before yesterday.

 
What do you guys know about this (I don't know whether to call it a demo or not)? Is it from the Thriller or Bad sessions? I haven't heard it before yesterday.

He recorded this song, but it was later given to Siedah for her solo record
 
Zakk;4081590 said:
Some say that there is a more complete version in the vault, and i'm fairly sure it's a HIStory outtake

Glen Ballard (the man who co-wrote “In the Back”) and Michael Jackson collaborated on the Dangerous project (apart from BAD & Thriller projects).
 
mj_frenzy;4081591 said:
Glen Ballard (the man who co-wrote “In the Back”) and Michael Jackson collaborated on the Dangerous project (apart from BAD & Thriller projects).

This is some interesting information. I always thought that In The Back was from the History sessions
 
Invincible has The Best outtakes by far.

I don't get how some of those "outtakes" could not make it on the album.
The only explanation would be to me that MJ saved some of the best tracks for a later, post sony, release.

I like the Thriller outtakes we know about, but i agree that none of them would have fitted on Thriller & none of them posses the class of the album tracks. Except 'Behind The Mask'.
 
Invincible has The Best outtakes by far. I don't get how some of those "outtakes" could not make it on the album? The only explanation would be to me that MJ saved some of the best tracks for a later, post Sony, release.

This.
IMO, the outtakes on Invincible were even better than the album (off with my head.)
 
I know this doesn't exactly belong in this thread BUT, how can you hold on to songs like xscape and we've had enough?? This perplexes me. Pretty bold move. He did the same
With earth song and TDCAU
 
MJJuniorSinceMW;4081685 said:
I don't get how some of those "outtakes" could not make it on the album.
The only explanation would be to me that MJ saved some of the best tracks for a later, post sony, release.

Saving some of his best tracks for a future post Sony release instead of including them in an album that cost him a fortune is quite illogical.
Also, during the Invincible sessions, MJ wasn’t aware of the record company’s promoting plans.
 
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