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The Connection Between Michael Jackson & The Neptunes + Pharrell Williams Interview (2003)

OnirMJ

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The Connection Between Michael Jackson & The Neptunes

We already discussed this on the Forum but I wanted to share this with y’all. Michael Jackson had endeavored to return to the studio for several years. In 2001 he was offered a bundle of songs from The Neptunes. MJ’s management rejected them and they found their way to Justin Timberlake – creating the breakthrough album Justified. Turning those songs down was perhaps the biggest mistake of his musical career. “Some of the songs he made were offered to Michael Jackson first. But Jackson’s manager said the songs were not good enough so they were given to Justin Timberlake instead” said Pharrell.

So everyone have been asking how The Neptunes gave Justin Timberlake the MJ tracks when you cleary see them actually crafting some tracks on the Justified Session DVD’s such as “Let’s Take A Ride” (the bridge became “What’s A Guy Gotta Do” which then went to Usher). You see Pharrell & Justin writing the lyrics but not the beat right, so they obviously only used the actual Neptunes MJ Demo Instrumentals, added Live drums and wrote lyrics for JT. “It would’ve been great with Michael but Justin is my boy, I’m so glad that it turned out the way it did, because that was a wonderful experience for us to do that kinda work and for those songs to be brought to life” said Pharrell. Nonethenless, Usher has also songs that were meant to be for Michael, produced by The Neptunes. In the book “Michael Jackson – For The Record” (published 2007) and “MJ – The Solo Years” (Published 2003) it’s stated that these tracks were written for Michael Jackson.

Usher – 8721 (2001)
– U Don’t Have To Call (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AszPTJXIgM)
– I Don’t Know (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URjv7Fy3c4s)

Justin Timberlake – Justified (2002)
– Senorita (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJHYDkvRB2Y)
– Take It From Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEhxV7WkIf8)
– Let’s Take A Ride (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Q9hhF1wpo)
– Last Night (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3SzfoUKrA)
– Nothin’ Else (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZRj2otYT7o)

Justin Timberlake – Justified (Studio Session) (2002)
Usher – What’s A Guy Gotta Do (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LEeXlj0muI)

http://theneptunes.org/2009/06/the-connection-between-michael-jackson-the-neptunes/
 
The Michael Jackson - Pharrell Williams Interview (2003)

This interview, which took place in early June 2003, actually came about as the magazine was planning a piece on Pharrell Williams, who at the time was an upstart producer from Virginia. As the editors were arranging the story with Williams, he casually mentioned that he’d always wanted to speak to Michael Jackson, who had been in the news after appearing in British journalist Martin Bashir’s infamous television documentary, Living With Michael Jackson, which portrayed the singer at his most bizarre. A complex chain of e-mails and phone calls ensued, messages were passed, reputations were vouched for, and a few days later, Jackson’s office called to say that he would do the interview. You can tell by the art Pharrell was talking that he was very emotional to talk to Michael. Thanks to fonkymaestro75.

MICHAEL JACKSON: So, I’m interviewing you, right? And I think it’s seven questions, or something like that?
PHARRELL WILLIAMS: Sure. Whatever you like.

JACKSON: Okay. What would you say inspires you in your music? What is it that inspires you to create your music?
WILLIAMS: It’s a feeling. You treat the air as a canvas and the paint is the chords that come through your fingers, out of the keyboard. So when I’m playing, I’m sort of painting a feeling in the air. I know that might sound corny, but—

JACKSON: No. No, that’s a perfect analogy.
WILLIAMS: And when you know it’s done, you know it’s done. It’s like painting or sculpting. When you let it go it’s because you know that it’s finished. It’s completed. And vice versa—it tells you, “Hey, I’m not done.”

JACKSON: Yeah. And it refuses to let you sleep until it’s finished.
WILLIAMS: That’s right.

JACKSON: Yeah, I go through the same thing. [laughs] And what do you think of the music today—are you into the new sounds that are being created and the direction that music is going?
WILLIAMS: Well, personally, I kind of feel like I’m taking notes from people like yourself and Stevie [Wonder] and Donny [Hathaway], and just sort of doing what feels right.

JACKSON: Right.
WILLIAMS: You know, like when everyone was going one way, you went Off the Wall.

JACKSON: Right. [laughs]
WILLIAMS: And when everyone else was going another way, you went Thriller. You just did it your way. And I’m taking notes from people like yourself, like not being afraid to listen to your feelings and turn your aspirations and ambitions into material. Making it happen, making it materialize…

JACKSON: Who are some of the older artists—not the artists on the radio today—who inspired you when you were younger? Like the artists your father listened to, did you learn anything from those artists?
WILLIAMS: Absolutely. The Isley Brothers.

JACKSON: Yeah, me too. I love the Isley Brothers. And I love Sly and the Family Stone.
WILLIAMS: Donny, Stevie.

JACKSON: You like all the people I like. [laughs]
WILLIAMS: Those chord changes. They take you away.

JACKSON: Beautiful, beautiful. Okay, well, where are you? In New York?
WILLIAMS: I’m in Virginia Beach, Virginia, sir.

JACKSON: Virginia! Oh, beautiful. Will you give my love to Virginia?
WILLIAMS: Yes. Thank you.

JACKSON: And your mother and your parents? Because God has blessed you with special gifts.
WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir. And I just want to say something, and I don’t know if you want to hear this, but I just have to say it because it’s on my heart. But people bother you—

JACKSON: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: Because they love you. That’s the only reason why. When you do something that people don’t necessarily understand, they’re going to make it into a bigger problem than they would for anybody else because you’re one of the most amazing talents that’s ever lived. You’ve accomplished and achieved more in this century than most any other men.

JACKSON: Well, thank you very much. That’s very kind of you.
WILLIAMS: What you do is so amazing. When you are 100 years old, and they’re still making up things about what you’ve done to this and what you’ve done to that on your body—please believe me, if you decided you wanted to dip your whole body in chrome, you are so amazing that the world, no matter what they say, is going to be right there to see it. And that is because of what you have achieved in the music world, and in changing people’s lives. People are having children to your songs. You’ve affected the world.

JACKSON: Thank you very much. It’s like the bigger the star, the bigger the target. You know when you’re—and I’m not being a braggadocio or anything like that—but you know you’re on top when they start throwing arrows at you. Even Jesus was crucified. People who bring light to the world, from Mahatma Gandhi to Martin Luther King to Jesus Christ, even myself. And my motto has been Heal the World, We are the World, Earth Song, Save Our Children, Help Our Planet. And people want to persecute me for it, but it never hurts, because the fan base becomes stronger. And the more you hit something hard, the more hardened it becomes—the stronger it becomes. And that’s what’s happened: I’m resilient. I have rhinoceros skin. Nothing can hurt me. Nothing.
WILLIAMS: That’s precisely my point. I just want to let you know you’re amazing, man. What you do to music, what you’ve done to music, from “Billie Jean” to “That’s What You Get (For Being Polite)”—[sings]“That’s what you get for being polite.”

JACKSON: Oh, you know that one? [laughs]
WILLIAMS: [sings] “Jack still sits all alone.”

JACKSON: Boy, you know all those ones . . . [hums a guitar riff]
WILLIAMS: If I never work with you, just know that you are unstoppable. That’s why I said, when you’re 100 years old and you decide to dip your entire body in chrome, as much as they say things—and I don’t care what they say about you, sir—they’re going to be right there to see it.

JACKSON: There’s a lot of jealousy there. I love all races, I love all people, but sometimes there’s a devil in people, and they get jealous. Every time there’s a luminary that goes beyond the heights of his field of endeavor, people tend to get jealous and try to bring him down. But they can’t with me because I’m very, very, very strong. [laughs] They don’t know that, though.
WILLIAMS: They know! Please believe me, they know!

JACKSON: Anybody else would’ve cracked by now; they can’t crack me. I’m very strong.
WILLIAMS: Of course. They couldn’t crack you when you were 10, because you were destroying grown men doing what you did with your voice and your talent. And when you were 20, you were outdoing people that had been doing it for 20 or 30 years. And nowadays they’re still waiting to see where you’re at. They want to see your kids, they want to see your world. You’re amazing, and I just wanted to tell you that, man. And I hope that this all gets printed because it’s very important to me. I hope that I can be half as dope as you one day.

JACKSON: Oh, God bless you. You’re wonderful, too . . . Have a lovely day.
WILLIAMS: You too, sir.

JACKSON: Thank you. Bye.
WILLIAMS: Bye.

http://theneptunes.org/2009/10/the-michael-jackson-pharrell-williams-interview-2003/
 
I wanted to create this thread for a long time. As Pharrell being one of my favourite producers I often think about what would have happened if MJ decide to go with him instead with Rodney Jerkins for Invincible. This thread will be to discuss the songs presented to Michael by The Neptunes, your opinion about Pharrell as a producer, about these songs he presented to Michael and how (or if) would that move affected Michael's career if he had accepted these tracks.

Also I found a great interview with MJ interviewing Pharrell via phone conversation in 2003. I think the interview is beautiful and very nice. Pharrell had such a huge respect for MJ. I just love how he remembered "That's What You Get (For Being Polite)". And MJ was so sweet and humble as always.

Your opinion.. discuss.

Everything MJ-Pharrell related is allowed in this thread. :)
 
I'm guessing MJ just didn't want to do a rehash of his old music.
Pharrell could certainly have done something different (rather than some sort of retro-esque sound that eventually was given to Justin Timberlake and Usher), but whatever.
I wish they had worked together, though.
 
OnirMJ;4137545 said:
The Connection Between Michael Jackson & The Neptunes

Michael Jackson had endeavored to return to the studio for several years. In 2001 he was offered a bundle of songs from The Neptunes. MJ’s management rejected them and they found their way to Justin Timberlake – creating the breakthrough album Justified. Turning those songs down was perhaps the biggest mistake of his musical career. “Some of the songs he made were offered to Michael Jackson first. But Jackson’s manager said the songs were not good enough so they were given to Justin Timberlake instead” said Pharrell.

Nonethenless, Usher has also songs that were meant to be for Michael, produced by The Neptunes. In the book “Michael Jackson – For The Record” (published 2007) and “MJ – The Solo Years” (Published 2003) it’s stated that these tracks were written for Michael Jackson.
Click to expand...

OnirMJ;4137548 said:
I wanted to create this thread for a long time. As Pharrell being one of my favourite producers I often think about what would have happened if MJ decide to go with him instead with Rodney Jerkins for Invincible. This thread will be to discuss the songs presented to Michael by The Neptunes, your opinion about Pharrell as a producer, about these songs he presented to Michael and how (or if) would that move affected Michael's career if he had accepted these tracks.

Your opinion.. discuss.
Click to expand...

This is a really interesting thread!

In my opinion, turning down these tracks (that were written for MJ) cannot be regarded as one of MJ’s biggest mistakes of his musical career.

More specifically:

Usher’s songs:

The track ‘U Don’t Have To Call’ sounds like nothing that MJ would have approved of. Melodically, it sounds too weak to have been regarded as a strong contender for ‘Invincible’.

The track ‘I Don’t Know’ offers a pretty decent hook, in my opinion slightly reminiscent of the one that appears on ‘Xscape’ (original version). This track looked closer to the sound that MJ was searching for at that time & probably he contemplated more this before eventually rejecting it. Out of these two, this one offered undeniably the most potential.

Timberlake’s songs:

The track ‘Senorita’, despite its catchy title, musically offers nothing memorable. It is plotted around an unexciting, tame rhythm, for this reason its exclusion from further consideration (during the ‘Invincible’ sessions) makes a lot of sense.

The track ‘Take It From Here’, being infused with a moody, mid-tempo R’n’b’ feeling, is definitely closer to the vocal style that MJ adopted at the early recording stages of ‘Invincible’. Had it been sung by MJ, it could probably have been a pleasant surprise.

The track ‘Let’s Take A Ride’ sounds a lot like the grooves that Rodney Jerkins used to make during that period. But, it is nothing mind-blowing, especially if we take into account the (similar) kind of sound that generally was being played at that time.

The track ‘Last Night’ musically stands out with its immediately likeable hook. Had it been further polished, it would not have looked out of place on the ‘Invincible’ album. Of course, it is not an earth-shattering track, but I can assume that MJ & his team devoted more time to it (as compared to the Timberlake’s other ones) before eventually rejecting it.

The track ‘Nothing Else’ sounds too ordinary to have been seriously considered for a possible inclusion on ‘Invincible’. It sounds like a song that Darren Hayes would have very willingly wanted to sing, but not MJ.

Finally, I think that ‘Rock Your Body’ could have suited MJ, both musically & vocally.

To sum up, ‘Last Night’, ‘I Don’t Know’, ‘Rock Your Body’ could have offered the most potential. But, at the same time, I firmly believe they would not have offered that explosive sound that MJ was in desperate need of around that time.

Of course, some other issues have to be taken seriously into account. For example, I am not sure if MJ himself did listen to those songs, or his managers did not pass them to him at all (the same goes also for songs from different producers, other than The Neptunes, that were meant for him). There was a litany of top producers at that time that were presenting their ideas/songs to MJ, but I cannot tell for sure if MJ got hold of all of them.

Additionally, it remains unanswered how much space (in the production) The Neptunes would have occupied on ‘Invincible’. In this case, & depending on their production role, Rodney Jerkins could have still been a part of the whole production team. I mean that both of them (The Neptunes & Jerkins) were not necessarily mutually exclusive unless certain (contractual, for example) conflicts existed in relation to that matter.

Finally, it is safe to say that MJ hired Rodney Jerking not only for chart success but also for the producer’s ability in inventing sounds/grooves unheard until that point, & theoretically speaking, MJ did the right thing in regard to that matter. So, regardless of the final result of ‘Invincible’, I can completely understand MJ’s intentions & what he exactly wanted to achieve with that album.
 
GREAT thread.
Love Pharrell, Neptunes, N.E.R.D. all things he did.

Regarding Neptunes work for MJ:
To me it's always more satisfying when MJ sat down together with someone & worked together on new things. Or if MJ has given a song from himself to someone to polish it up & have someones take on it (ala T.Riley the so called "finisher"). As opposed to someone writing songs for & giving songs to MJ.

That's why i think if Pharrell & MJ got together in the studio & started something from scratch, that probably would have turned out really unique & great.
But the songs subsequently given to JT & Usher to me are missing that SIGNATURE MJ feel, that special magical touch.

Regarding the MJ/Pharrell interview:
What i see is this: Pharrell desperately wanted to tell MJ how special & a great person MJ is. I can relate to that in the way, that sometimes i think, MJ didn't know how special he was & how much he meant & still means to people. To fans & fellow artists. There's an urgency in Pharrell's words, that he really wanted MJ to understand how great, how loved & how special he is. And i thank Pharrell for that. Also calling him "Sir" the whole time. Just lovely & respectful..
 
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mj_frenzy;4137867 said:
Of course, some other issues have to be taken seriously into account. For example, I am not sure if MJ himself did listen to those songs, or his managers did not pass them to him at all (the same goes also for songs from different producers, other than The Neptunes, that were meant for him). There was a litany of top producers at that time that were presenting their ideas/songs to MJ, but I cannot tell for sure if MJ got hold of all of them.
Click to expand...

Yeah this might be right (for lesser known producers - including Pharrell at this time), but I doubt this was the case here because Pharrell was Teddy Riley's student so I'm sure Teddy had some role in presenting those songs to Michael. But if the management really rejected those songs without playing them to Michael first, I think he was pissed at them after the songs became hits.

mj_frenzy;4137867 said:
Additionally, it remains unanswered how much space (in the production) The Neptunes would have occupied on ‘Invincible’. In this case, & depending on their production role, Rodney Jerkins could have still been a part of the whole production team. I mean that both of them (The Neptunes & Jerkins) were not necessarily mutually exclusive unless certain (contractual, for example) conflicts existed in relation to that matter.
Click to expand...

Yeah, absolutely. They could have been both on the album along with Teddy Riley and others if Michael liked any of the demos Pharrell presented to him. For example just 1 song like Babyface. But I was thinking more like the main producer of the album (like Rodney Jerkins or Teddy Riley).

mj_frenzy;4137867 said:
Finally, it is safe to say that MJ hired Rodney Jerking not only for chart success but also for the producer’s ability in inventing sounds/grooves unheard until that point, & theoretically speaking, MJ did the right thing in regard to that matter. So, regardless of the final result of ‘Invincible’, I can completely understand MJ’s intentions & what he exactly wanted to achieve with that album.
Click to expand...

I agree. Just like Pharrell said in many interviews: Michael's management said "Michael wants some "Superthug"", and Pharrell was thinking too linearly. His demos were all Off The Wall-esque and Michael wanted to create new instruments! Pharrell wanted the past and Michael wanted the future. And what Rodney gave to Michael or what they created together is exactly what Michael was looking from Pharrell in the first place - those futuristic sounds. And some songs on Invincible have that infectious futuristic Hip-Hop beat (Heartbreaker, Unbreakable, Invincible, 2000 Watts) that is more similar to Noreaga's "Superthug" than to Justin Timberlake's "Justified" and Usher's "8721".

The song in question:
Noreaga - Superthug (produced by The Neptunes) (1998)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oEkvP1rWxA
 
MJJuniorSinceMW;4137891 said:
Regarding Neptunes work for MJ:
To me it's always more satisfying when MJ sat down together with someone & worked together on new things. Or if MJ has given a song from himself to someone to polish it up & have someones take on it (ala T.Riley the so called "finisher"). As opposed to someone writing songs for & giving songs to MJ.
Click to expand...

There's nothing different that happened (or that didn't happen) here to what happened with Teddy Riley on Dangerous (In the Closet, She Drives Me Wild, Remember the Time, Can't Let Her Get Away, Why You Wanna Trip on Me, Blood on the Dance Floor, Ghosts). Teddy Riley first created the beatz, sometimes even a melody (Remember the Time) and then MJ would write a song (melody) and lyrics around his beatz. Teddy Riley was "the finisher" only on songs previously written by MJ (Jam, Dangerous, Someone Put Your Hand Out). The same thing happened with Jam and Lewis on HIStory. They presented MJ with 6 ideas/beatz (sometimes with melody - like Scream) and the writing process was the same as with Teddy Riley. Similar thing happened with Rodney Jerkins (and Darkchild team) on Invincible.

Like the article says:

"So everyone have been asking how The Neptunes gave Justin Timberlake the MJ tracks when you cleary see them actually crafting some tracks on the Justified Session DVD’s such as “Let’s Take A Ride” (the bridge became “What’s A Guy Gotta Do” which then went to Usher). You see Pharrell & Justin writing the lyrics but not the beat right, so they obviously only used the actual Neptunes MJ Demo Instrumentals, added Live drums and wrote lyrics for JT."

So those songs would have probably changed drastically if MJ decided to record them. On Justified album credits you see JT credited as co-writer on every song. That means that he wrote or co-wrote lyrics (maybe even vocal melodies) on each song! What Pharrell presented to MJ and/or his management were demos similar to those Teddy presented to Michael for Dangerous and what Jam and Lewis presented him for HIStory. Michael would write his own lyrics for those song and he would co-produce them with Pharrell his style (that "signature MJ feel" and that "special magical touch"). Timberlake let Pharrell produce him alone because he was young artist inexperienced in production but no way Michael would allowed him to do the same. It would have been a collaboration like you see on every song on Invincible (Michael received producer co-writing credits on every song, even for the songs he didn't write). There is no way "Senorita" would sound like it sounds on Justified if it ended up on Invincible.
 
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