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View Full Version : Do you get 'offended' by the name *****?



Forever_Mike
23-12-2007, 11:29 PM
I have noticed that some fans get upset when MJ is referred to as *****. The thing is that ***** is a short for Jackson. Its used by the media/non-media to address people with the last name Jackson. Admittedly the media use it a lot for MJ. What I find offensive is when the term ***** is used to rhyme with an offensive word in describing MJ e.g W**** ***** and s*** like that.

I remember a very good British gymnast with last name Jackson who was called ***** by the media. In fact he had fans/family with banner 'Go *****' etc.

Anyways what are your thoughts etc

Buck Bee3ee
23-12-2007, 11:32 PM
well, i'm here in the states, not great britain.

and over here, the term is used only negatively. so yes, it's offensive.

that's calling him out his name. it's disrespectful to change the man's name

Forever_Mike
23-12-2007, 11:36 PM
well, i'm here in the states, not great britain.

and over here, the term is used only negatively. so yes, it's offensive.

that's calling him out his name. it's disrespectful to change the man's name

Is the term itself negative tho? Or is what else is made to rhyme with that is?

Buck Bee3ee
23-12-2007, 11:45 PM
i've gotten to the point where the term j.acko is offensive in and of itself...

simply b/c of the connotation. here in the states, it's only been used as ***** j.acko... then they changed it up to just say 'j.acko' but that's when they think mike is doing something bizarre.

also, i've read too many stories that delve into the michael jackson as an artist and the 'j.acko' era. so yes, it's negative and offensive

rsw22
23-12-2007, 11:52 PM
It's an offensive term that Michael himself does not like and he's said so. Even his family have said so.

Go call Samuel Jackson or any other famous African American with that name and see what happens. Also, try and call any African American "*****" on a daily basis as part of his name and see the response.

The media cannot do that. They feel that because of MJ's situation, they can get away calling him names. If it wasn't for MJ's vitiligo the media could not dare call him names. How many African American celebs do you see the media persisting with calling them derogatory names every day? They can do it once for a given story, but that's it. They cannot do it daily.

When Mike Tyson bit off Evander Holyfield's ear, that was the craziest thing. Why don't the media label him "Animal Tyson?" or "cannibal Tyson" or some other derogatory name? Because it then invokes name-calling African Americans have been subjected to, nigger and all that stuff.

Name-calling MJ is done on purpose by the media because they feel they can get away with it, no more, no less.

Rasta Pasta
24-12-2007, 12:00 AM
well, i'm here in the states, not great britain.

and over here, the term is used only negatively. so yes, it's offensive.

that's calling him out his name. it's disrespectful to change the man's name

totally agree.. its like calling him the "N" word...

Forever_Mike
24-12-2007, 12:10 AM
totally agree.. its like calling him the "N" word...

:o:o:o Ok! I didn't know that!

ps. mod close this thread,

Victory2004
24-12-2007, 12:31 AM
Yeah it rhymes with ***** and he only said 10 years ago to Barbara Walters that he's sick of people calling him that even though some news entertainment shows like E! News, Showbiz Tonight, Daily 10 and Extra still keep calling him that when they can use nicknames like MJ, mike jackson, the gloved one or king of pop without adding something in front of it.

Catherine..
24-12-2007, 12:55 AM
Whats wrong with using his name? ***** is belittling.

LindaC781
24-12-2007, 12:57 AM
I have noticed that some fans get upset when MJ is referred to as *****. The thing is that ***** is a short for Jackson. Its used by the media/non-media to address people with the last name Jackson. Admittedly the media use it a lot for MJ. What I find offensive is when the term ***** is used to rhyme with an offensive word in describing MJ e.g W**** ***** and s*** like that.

I remember a very good British gymnast with last name Jackson who was called ***** by the media. In fact he had fans/family with banner 'Go *****' etc.

Anyways what are your thoughts etc

I find it offensive.. MICHAEL JACKSON finds it offensive....but you know what? Using a term like that is IMMATURE and CHILDISH. It's like ME going back to SECOND GRADE with regards to name calling. The people who do this are IMMATURE and CHILDISH. I remember that. I feel sorry for those who insist on staying in an 8-year-old type of mentality, actually..AND it shows an INCREDIBLE amount of disrespect towards him. I find that so tragic...he never did anything to deserve this crap, yet he gets it day in day out...

BE.86
24-12-2007, 01:05 AM
It is offensive to me cause you're calling someone out of their name, if the same thing was done to me I would be highly upset and offended. Michael is a good person (IMO) and for him to be criticized like that is totally un-called for, people just find a reason to hate on him and why do they? because he's, extremely talented, broke more records than any other artist alone, and because he's Michael Jackson.

Momma Shannon
24-12-2007, 01:36 AM
:o:o:o Ok! I didn't know that!

ps. mod close this thread,


It's actually a good conversation into why people feel this way so I'd like to keep it open if that's ok.

L.J
24-12-2007, 01:40 AM
whilst I agree that it is offensive when it rhymes with something like W***o etc

Here in Australia *****, is short for Jackson. It's used in two positive lights usually, one being "my mate ***** said that.." ... or it's just used as a quicker shorter way of saying a name. (we naturally shorten words and names). It can actually be used as a term of respect or mateship. You know they've fully accepted you when they ad an o or an a to your name ;) "Johnno wants us around for drinks" or "Azza (aaron) has a new job"

I've seen ***** used inregards to Michael, and there has not been anything negative in the article.


Mind you we too can use it as a negative name, and the press here tend to do it when they've copied their news articles from either the UK or the states :yes:

eternitys_child
24-12-2007, 01:53 AM
:o:o:o Ok! I didn't know that!

ps. mod close this thread,
I am glad you opened it. I understand that for Australians for instance it is a term of endearment in a way and I believe it is the same for the British. I always consider the source. It is only when used with the second part that it bothers me. I hope by now that Michael knows it is not alway used maliciously and actually meant as a good thing sometimes. I do feel bad if it bothers Michael.

In all honesty I wonder sometime about referring to himn as Michael. That is a term of familiarity too. When Raymone Bain calls him Mr. Jackson instead of Michael it is giving respect where respect is due and it actually sounds good to me. So what is really correct? It is because Michael emotes so and gives so much in his perfomances that we feel familiar enough to call him Michael. It is a double edged sword. It is part of his magnetism and draw and also sometimes causes unwanted intrusions and expectations. I do not see how one term of familiarity (Michael) would be okay and not the other (*****).

Buck Bee3ee
24-12-2007, 02:25 AM
totally agree.. its like calling him the "N" word...

funny you mentioned that. i thought the same thing too and wrote and performed a spoken word piece about it

(trust, it was fiyah! :D)

and like somebody else said, 'j.acko' is belitting IMO... this is definitely a cultural thing but i know many african americans who don't play around w/ you changing their name. touchy subject

GenieBottle
24-12-2007, 03:01 AM
I HATE it! when people call him *****! I'm from the US and here it is OFFENSIVE! How hard is it to say Jackson? The media don't know him, they are not his family or friends what gives them the right to call him that? ...it is degrading his family name, to literally change the lettering of his NAME! This is like a slap in the face to WHO HE IS...the name of his father, mother, brothers and sisters, his children, nieces and nephews.
On a personal note...I'm black, my family name is Jackson so maybe I'm super sensitive on the matter.
It is about respect, it is Jack-son! thats the name on his grammys, on his albums, his world record certificates...when they bastardize his name its like they are stripping away his achievements...
which IMO is exactly what they want to do, they HATE that he has achieved so much so belittling his name is a childish last resort to hurt him and perpetuate the ******' persona to the ignorant masses.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff57/MissAtkins/mJsig.jpg

wannabestartinsomthin21
24-12-2007, 03:17 AM
If it offends and hurts Michael, then its wrong, plain and simple. If it offends him, it offends me, because if the person being subjected to it is pained by it and I care about that person, which I do Michael, then it pains me too.

J5master
24-12-2007, 03:20 AM
Yes, I'm offended when FANS use it and act like ur crazy when ur offended. I mean it doesn't get any plainer than MJ saying "I'm not *****, I'm JACKSON". I mean it doesn't get any plainer than that. MJ doesn't like the word, so i'm not gonna use it. Plus the LEAST people can do is respect the man and call him by his proper name :rolleyes: I mean, i understand nicknames and things like that but "*****' came out of the phrase "***** *****" and is obviously disrespectful.

L.J
24-12-2007, 04:23 AM
I think it's like anything really, if you use it to mean offence or indifference to that person, it's wrong, doesn't matter what the word is or how you say it.

If it's just the way you talk or it's a cultural thing and you are using it as a way to show endearment or respect or mateship etc then surely it's acceptable on some level.

Mind you I wouldn't call Michael ***** due to the fact that I know he doesn't like it.

Dark Artist
24-12-2007, 04:35 AM
You would think that the term itself isn't offensive, but it actually is because everyone associates it with ******'.

I read an article the other day about Michael wearing tape on his face, and they constantly referred to him as *****. It's intentionally disrespectful. It helps to make a joke out of him if they ridicule his name.

Amber Dawn
24-12-2007, 04:42 AM
My family. Their last name is Jackson, I've pulled "***** *****" on them. They laugh and it's kind of like a ongoing joke. But they started the whole thing themselves.

Nobody likes it when they get made fun of.. If he thought it was funny, it be a different story but the way "they" pull it up is very mean and cold.

L.J
24-12-2007, 04:43 AM
You would think that the term itself isn't offensive, but it actually is because everyone associates it with ******'.

I read an article the other day about Michael wearing tape on his face, and they constantly referred to him as *****. It's intentionally disrespectful. It helps to make a joke out of him if they ridicule his name.

well yes, it's also a poor man's easy way out of being able to feel clever by doing a play on the name..... they do say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Because after all how hard is it to twist someone's name to make it sound like a joke, we do learn that in primary school... "linda linda belongs in kinda" etc

Forever_Mike
24-12-2007, 06:05 AM
It's actually a good conversation into why people feel this way so I'd like to keep it open if that's ok.
Thanx! I wasn't sure!


whilst I agree that it is offensive when it rhymes with something like W***o etc

Here in Australia *****, is short for Jackson. It's used in two positive lights usually, one being "my mate ***** said that.." ... or it's just used as a quicker shorter way of saying a name. (we naturally shorten words and names). It can actually be used as a term of respect or mateship. You know they've fully accepted you when they ad an o or an a to your name ;) "Johnno wants us around for drinks" or "Azza (aaron) has a new job"

I've seen ***** used inregards to Michael, and there has not been anything negative in the article.
Same here! And that's my point because I think that say when MJ's new album does well, the artcle titles will still read "***** still a Thriller' etc

Mind you we too can use it as a negative name, and the press here tend to do it when they've copied their news articles from either the UK or the states :yes:


I am glad you opened it. I understand that for Australians for instance it is a term of endearment in a way and I believe it is the same for the British. I always consider the source. It is only when used with the second part that it bothers me. I hope by now that Michael knows it is not alway used maliciously and actually meant as a good thing sometimes. I do feel bad if it bothers Michael.

In all honesty I wonder sometime about referring to himn as Michael. That is a term of familiarity too. When Raymone Bain calls him Mr. Jackson instead of Michael it is giving respect where respect is due and it actually sounds good to me. So what is really correct? It is because Michael emotes so and gives so much in his perfomances that we feel familiar enough to call him Michael. It is a double edged sword. It is part of his magnetism and draw and also sometimes causes unwanted intrusions and expectations. I do not see how one term of familiarity (Michael) would be okay and not the other (*****).

This is very interesting. I agree to your points. The thing is that Michael Jackson is called a lot of other names eg MJ, Mike, Michael, etc some of these names like Mike is the short for Michael, in the same way that ***** can be taken as a short for Jackson. So his name isn't changed just because a short-version is used.

The press call a lot of people by a short-name (nickname if you will) e.g Madonna is now Madge, Princess Diana was Di etc so to me when someone says *****, it really doesn't bother me unless it's followed by W**** etc.

I don't remember the interview where MJ (sorry I mean Mr Michael Jackson :lol: just joking!) said he hates the name. I haven't watched it for a while but I think he was saying about the W**** J**** rather than just J****. I may be totally wrong.:lol:

MJdude
24-12-2007, 06:50 AM
In my country the term ***** is never used in mass-media.They always write his full name.This is why I don't really find it offensive.In English,though,it does have a negative part to it.But I do like the way it sounds - *****.It makes me think of the Billie Jean performances on the HIStory tour,where Michael starts to sing: "***** lover!You 'now ya' ain't!***** lover!".

innocent
24-12-2007, 10:46 AM
I've only read it in negative terms and when people say it to me its always negative.So i guess when Michael is referred to ***** i dont like it or find it respectful.

Forever_Mike
24-12-2007, 10:52 AM
I've only read it in negative terms and when people say it to me its always negative.So i guess when Michael is referred to ***** i dont like it or find it respectful.

I have wondered that if its because of the negative media association with ***** in MJ's case that we have been conditioned to 'dislike/hate' the term regardless of the content its used in.

Very interesting reading all the views here. Some of ya'll really Hate it. I must admit I knew peeps hated it but not to the extent some of you feel.

P.S LJ I love your Santa sig:wub:

LindaC781
24-12-2007, 11:13 AM
Those of you in Australia and in other countries - I can see your point..You look at the name "*****" and think "What the heck? What is so offensive about that?". The point is this. In THIS country, the name "*****" is ALWAYS connotated to go along with "*****". THAT is OFFENSIVE. We who live in America take GREAT OFFENSE when ANYONE refers to Michael Jackson as "*****". The man has a legal surname. Use it. Or call him "MJ" or "Michael" or "Mike" when you talk about him. And start treating him with some goddamned respect. There, I got that off my chest.

elusive moonwalker
24-12-2007, 01:31 PM
depends on how the word is used. whether its with w.a.c.k.o for eg.its not the nicest sounding name ill say that. it has different meanings i think depending on what country you are in. as in the uk and Oz (others from there have said) if u have a last name that ends in son be it jackson or gibson for eg then u always get called gibbo or ***** when at school etc.its the oldest nickname in the book and wasnt created just for mj. its not a negative name just a nickname like any other.in countries where this doesnt happen they seem to find the nickname more offensive because they think the name is ment to be negative but the name on its own isnt.its just a nickname nothing more nothing less. news paper headlines are only offensive when the W is put b4 *****. otherwise its as i said above and just abriviating the name to create more space as papers do

rita.gibson
24-12-2007, 04:03 PM
Just like Elusive said over here it's just a nickname. I was called gibbo by most of my teachers, in fact if a teacher called you by a nickname it was a fun thing and I got on better with those teachers than the one's that called me Rita.

I do feel bad about it being used for Michael though because I know that he is offended by it.

L.J
24-12-2007, 04:21 PM
Those of you in Australia and in other countries - I can see your point..You look at the name "*****" and think "What the heck? What is so offensive about that?". The point is this. In THIS country, the name "*****" is ALWAYS connotated to go along with "*****". THAT is OFFENSIVE. We who live in America take GREAT OFFENSE when ANYONE refers to Michael Jackson as "*****". The man has a legal surname. Use it. Or call him "MJ" or "Michael" or "Mike" when you talk about him. And start treating him with some goddamned respect. There, I got that off my chest.

See this is where the language and cultural differences gets interesting. :p

In one breath your saying don't call him by the nickname "*****" , but in the next breath you say it is ok to call him by other nicknames such as "Mike" or "MJ" It's interesting not just as fans, but as different people from different cultures to see which nicknames we allow and which ones we dont :) ... so what is it that makes which nicknames appropriate and which ones inappropriate? is it how it is accepted by a majority? by the individual? or by the culture we know?

(please note I'm not picking at your Linda :) but merely using your quote as an example of differences ;) )

I think the reason why "*****" isn't accepted like "Mike Jack" etc is purely due to the negative connections that the press have put with the name.
It also appears to me that maybe in the US even if ***** isn't added to the word *****.... the word in itself might sound harsh and short as opposed to the full name. So hence sounding disrespectful :)

and like i said earlier the other reason we tend not to use or like *****, is purely because MJ don't like it either :p

Darvon1982
24-12-2007, 04:34 PM
Yes, it's offensive.



Here is the Barbara Walters Interview

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CRV_zpRiyqc&feature=related
(1st part of the Interview)
(About 5 minutes in, towards the end he talks about being called ***** *****)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RtgqiJnXRKg
(3 minutes into the video he talks about being called ***** *****)

laurenjayne
24-12-2007, 04:56 PM
i dont like it, people should just use his real name

J5master
24-12-2007, 06:42 PM
its not about if WE find it offensive, it's not about if YOU or I find it offensive, or if in different contexts if it's offensive...the fact is that MICHAEL does. And its as simple as that for me.

Nachtspicht
24-12-2007, 10:42 PM
To be honest, I must admit I always kinda liked the ***** thing, it is the ***** ***** that I think is offensive. But only the ***** I like, it is like Jack-O, which actually sounds kinda cool.

I also think there is a difference between the American and the European continent, which is also visible in this thread. Americans seem far more offended by the ***** then the Europeans do (or Autralians for that matter). But also here, the ***** ***** is only used when the tone of the "article" is negative. But it is being used far less here in the Netherlands then in other countries it seems to me. Though I admit that I have become an expert in avoiding potentially offending media about MJ :D so I might simply not be seeing it :cool: <-- Sunglasses with automatic MJ negativity sensor :lol:

Forever_Mike
24-12-2007, 10:48 PM
To be honest, I must admit I always kinda liked the ***** thing, it is the ***** ***** that I think is offensive. But only the ***** I like, it is like Jack-O, which actually sounds kinda cool.

I also think there is a difference between the American and the European continent, which is also visible in this thread. Americans seem far more offended by the ***** then the Europeans do (or Autralians for that matter). But also here, the ***** ***** is only used when the tone of the "article" is negative. But it is being used far less here in the Netherlands then in other countries it seems to me. Though I admit that I have become an expert in avoiding potentially offending media about MJ :D so I might simply not be seeing it :cool: <-- Sunglasses with automatic MJ negativity sensor :lol:

True! The thing is that MJ did say that he found W**** J**** offensive of course it is. But my question was on *****! However it seems that in the U.S there is no difference between (*****) and (***** + 'other offensive rhymes'). So I feel in a way like we are just going to go round and round in circles.

ExoticPrincess
25-12-2007, 12:12 AM
Michael Jackson has said he does'nt like the term '*****' hence its not a word to be used to refer to him. Its obnoxious if you ask me!

Roger Spy
25-12-2007, 02:18 AM
Yes, I do think it's an offensive name! His name is Jackson and that's that! "I'm not a *****, I'm Jackson"!

LindaC781
25-12-2007, 03:00 AM
See this is where the language and cultural differences gets interesting. :p

In one breath your saying don't call him by the nickname "*****" , but in the next breath you say it is ok to call him by other nicknames such as "Mike" or "MJ" It's interesting not just as fans, but as different people from different cultures to see which nicknames we allow and which ones we dont :) ... so what is it that makes which nicknames appropriate and which ones inappropriate? is it how it is accepted by a majority? by the individual? or by the culture we know?

(please note I'm not picking at your Linda :) but merely using your quote as an example of differences ;) )

I think the reason why "*****" isn't accepted like "Mike Jack" etc is purely due to the negative connections that the press have put with the name.
It also appears to me that maybe in the US even if ***** isn't added to the word *****.... the word in itself might sound harsh and short as opposed to the full name. So hence sounding disrespectful :)

and like i said earlier the other reason we tend not to use or like *****, is purely because MJ don't like it either :p

So now this is a "cultural thing"? PLEASE. GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK...Ok...I THINK ***** is offensive. Michael JACKSON HIMSELF thinks the term is offensive. It HURTS. It's DISRESPECTFUL. There is nothing "cultural" about this topic.. If you can erase the "*****" connotation from the word "*****", then you can use it. I tend to think you cannot. That phrase has been used too much, for too long for anyone to say "*****" and not have "*****" go along with it.

Most of you are Christian, are you not? And isn't one of the basic tenets of Christian doctrine the Golden Rule? You know, treat others the way YOU want to be treated? How would you like it if for quite a while, the phrase "***** *****" was being used? IN THE MASS MEDIA no less?? And now, all of a sudden, the word "*****" DOESN'T have a derogatory, disrespectful connotation? That all of a sudden it's a "cultural" issue??

Us Americans have gone to so many cultural differences lectures and classes, we bend over BACKWARDS to accomodate the foreign people who come to our shores. We modify the way we dress, how we greet, and even make eye contact!! And now US AMERICANS are supposed to "suck it up" and accept the usage of the word "*****"....that somehow it was all benign all this time? That it ISN'T offensive?? Give me a freaking break!

Treat Michael Jackson the way YOU would want to be treated. Get RID of the term *****. It is offensive. It's a matter of respect, and common courtesy. There is nothing "cultural" about it. DON'T USE IT. IT IS OFFENSIVE. Period. End of conversation!!

Forever_Mike
25-12-2007, 03:16 AM
So now this is a "cultural thing"? PLEASE. GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK...Ok...I THINK ***** is offensive. Michael JACKSON HIMSELF thinks the term is offensive. It HURTS. It's DISRESPECTFUL. There is nothing "cultural" about this topic.. If you can erase the "*****" connotation from the word "*****", then you can use it. I tend to think you cannot. That phrase has been used too much, for too long for anyone to say "*****" and not have "*****" go along with it.

Most of you are Christian, are you not? And isn't one of the basic tenets of Christian doctrine the Golden Rule? You know, treat others the way YOU want to be treated? How would you like it if for quite a while, the phrase "***** *****" was being used? IN THE MASS MEDIA no less?? And now, all of a sudden, the word "*****" DOESN'T have a derogatory, disrespectful connotation? That all of a sudden it's a "cultural" issue??

Us Americans have gone to so many cultural differences lectures and classes, we bend over BACKWARDS to accomodate the foreign people who come to our shores. We modify the way we dress, how we greet, and even make eye contact!! And now US AMERICANS are supposed to "suck it up" and accept the usage of the word "*****"....that somehow it was all benign all this time? That it ISN'T offensive?? Give me a freaking break!

Treat Michael Jackson the way YOU would want to be treated. Get RID of the term *****. It is offensive. It's a matter of respect, and common courtesy. There is nothing "cultural" about it. DON'T USE IT. IT IS OFFENSIVE. Period. End of conversation!!

The point of this topic was to share views about the term '*****' among fans. From my country the term '*****' is used as a short for anyone named Jackson. As a result I do not get all heated up as soon as someone says *****. Following the conversation here I have also been able to see how similar acceptance of this term exist in other countries as well. This is not the case however it seems in the states. This differences between different cultures/countries has become very apparent. Especially by the 'heated' responses given by your self among others mainly from the states.

So we have established that MJ dislikes both terms ***** and W**** J**** (perhaps been American himself I can now understand). As to quoting the Bible and talking about Christianity and 'Treat others as you will like to be treated' part of your post.... I don't think it necessary or relevant. A simple answer of Yes I hate the term because MJ hates it. Will have been enough.

the floacist
25-12-2007, 03:21 AM
It does, especially in what is supposed to be respected and serious journalism. While I do get a lot of information from the Smoking Gun, even they have '*****' for the file names and titles. Is it so hard to say his government name?

LindaC781
25-12-2007, 03:26 AM
I am sorry for getting on the high horse..I just get SO offended about the use of "*****" that I cannot see straight..

mistermaxxx
25-12-2007, 03:48 AM
hell yeah I do and think it is wrong for these media types to be calling a Grown Ass Man out of his name and he is cleared of everything and he has done so much for the world at large. it's racist and wrong IMO.

MJsPanda
25-12-2007, 05:25 AM
I agree with J5master, the main point is that Michael finds it offensive! But yes, I myself do aswell because not only is it offensive & degrading to Michael himself, but it's also very disrespectful to his parents! Jackson is their name & that's the only thing any of them should be addressed by! Period! I wouldn't like it if someone deliberately mispronounced my name either, it would tick me off to no end!

sundayroberts1
25-12-2007, 06:02 AM
michael hates that name and anyone knowing him know that they call him that to put him down. Its not right and it is totally disrespectful. It tears me apart each time i hear that name. Why do they always have to call him that when he has said I,m not ***** i,m Jackson , do they not think he has feelings . well he does and he doesn,t want to pass that name to his kids but know one seems to give a dam. My heart goes out to him and wish something could be done about it.:frustrated:

L.J
25-12-2007, 06:23 AM
So now this is a "cultural thing"? PLEASE. GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK...Ok...I THINK ***** is offensive. Michael JACKSON HIMSELF thinks the term is offensive. It HURTS. It's DISRESPECTFUL. There is nothing "cultural" about this topic.. If you can erase the "*****" connotation from the word "*****", then you can use it. I tend to think you cannot. That phrase has been used too much, for too long for anyone to say "*****" and not have "*****" go along with it.

Most of you are Christian, are you not? And isn't one of the basic tenets of Christian doctrine the Golden Rule? You know, treat others the way YOU want to be treated? How would you like it if for quite a while, the phrase "***** *****" was being used? IN THE MASS MEDIA no less?? And now, all of a sudden, the word "*****" DOESN'T have a derogatory, disrespectful connotation? That all of a sudden it's a "cultural" issue??

Us Americans have gone to so many cultural differences lectures and classes, we bend over BACKWARDS to accomodate the foreign people who come to our shores. We modify the way we dress, how we greet, and even make eye contact!! And now US AMERICANS are supposed to "suck it up" and accept the usage of the word "*****"....that somehow it was all benign all this time? That it ISN'T offensive?? Give me a freaking break!

Treat Michael Jackson the way YOU would want to be treated. Get RID of the term *****. It is offensive. It's a matter of respect, and common courtesy. There is nothing "cultural" about it. DON'T USE IT. IT IS OFFENSIVE. Period. End of conversation!!

I think I got you confused so I apologise, I was not saying that it's a cultural thing for some places to call Michael Jackson "*****"

I was merely pointing out that in different places the shortening of a name is often used as a friendship/mateship thing, or as sign of mutual respect.

I personally don't call Michael "*****"... never have, it just doesn't sound right, and that is before I think of the negative side that it has associated with the word.


As for the christian comment, I'm not of any faith :flowers: and the Religion thread we had running a while back at MJJF demonstrated that the board is of a diverse nature when it comes to religion and faith... just as we are with cultural and social interactions as demonstrated in this discussion on the word "*****"

I'm trying to open the conversation up to discuss the actual word and to demonstrate differences. Otherwise the thread would just be everyone responding with "No I find it offensive, Michael finds it offensive" etc :)

The teaching of "treat other's as you wish to be treated" is older than the bible though B)





hell yeah I do and think it is wrong for these media types to be calling a Grown Ass Man out of his name and he is cleared of everything and he has done so much for the world at large. it's racist and wrong IMO.

mistermaxx you claim the word is racist. Can I ask for an explaination? Does the word "*****" actually mean something else other than that it is short for Jackson or that it rhymes with *****?
I'm kinda curious is all and would love to understand a little better as it might also help me to understand why so many US members seem to be more defensive and angry over the word as opposed to other members who just say "Oh I don't like it"

:)

Forever_Mike
25-12-2007, 07:11 AM
I am sorry for getting on the high horse..I just get SO offended about the use of "*****" that I cannot see straight..

I understand! I get like that sometimes! :shakehands::)

Nachtspicht
25-12-2007, 09:57 AM
We could also look at the bigger picture here and compare ***** to some of the other names people refer MJ too. Then when I get really offended it is when the media always feel the need to put a potentially positive article down by some words like childfriend, former King of Pop, mentally instable, accused of child abuse and <fill in rest of list here>. Compared to those, I guess I can live with the ***** thing.

I like the discussion about calling him to his first name, made me think about myself and I must say that I only call him Michael when I am with other fans, but in general I call him by both his first and his last name: Michael Jackson. So yeah I guess there is a little boundary of respect here in me too ^_^

cinderella
25-12-2007, 10:01 AM
yes, I DO.... should not be the term forbidden in here, by the way???? just wondering..............

LindaC781
25-12-2007, 10:02 AM
I understand! I get like that sometimes! :shakehands::)

Hey, we both agree on something.. It's a freaking miracle!! (falling down) LOL!

L.J
25-12-2007, 10:14 AM
yes, I DO.... should not be the term forbidden in here, by the way???? just wondering..............

I can't see why it should be forbidden? I think the conversation is a valid one :)
as a mod, I would probably edit it out of people's posts if they decided to use it in an offensive way (i.e calling Michael W.... J.....) other than that, I'm certainly not going to censor people from having a discussion :D



Hey, we both agree on something.. It's a freaking miracle!! (falling down) LOL!

:o *fans the fainted Linda* :p

Forever_Mike
25-12-2007, 11:13 AM
Hey, we both agree on something.. It's a freaking miracle!! (falling down) LOL!

We also agree that MJ is the Best, KOP and very 'yummy':wub: man!! So see we agree on a lot of things really!:lol::lol:

czechstar
25-12-2007, 12:34 PM
I can understand that fans don't like the WJ tag, but in the UK, ***** is used as a term of affection like Madge for Madonna. And frankly, I think there are far more hurtful and negative names thrown at MJ to worry too much about this one.

elusive moonwalker
25-12-2007, 01:54 PM
seeing as its about nicknames what names get shortened in the U.S.A. because from the replies on here it doesnt seem at all that the ***** nickname is used at all for ppl called jackson gibson etc.. what about smithy and jonesy for ppl with smith and jones as surnames? the opinions seems to come from ppl not knowing the origins of such nicknames therfore automatically thinking it as negative and like it was created just for mj when obviously it wasnt.

and the racist accusation is ridiculous. that obviously comes from not knowing the origin of the nickname.

L.J
25-12-2007, 02:03 PM
^ that's an interesting point

How do nicknames for folks in the US come about? :)

StarTrader
25-12-2007, 02:36 PM
No, I don't get offended, '*****' isn't offensive, ****** *****' is, but I've seen positive articles about Michael where's he's been referred to as *****, so no big deal, every celebrity has a nickname.

LindaC781
25-12-2007, 04:24 PM
I can understand that fans don't like the WJ tag, but in the UK, ***** is used as a term of affection like Madge for Madonna. And frankly, I think there are far more hurtful and negative names thrown at MJ to worry too much about this one.

Wasn't the UK the SOURCE of the phrase "***** *****"? And if so, people always remember the negative - you have to do 20 positive things to make people try to forget one negative. And the word "*****" has been used so many times negatively, that the positive doesn't fare too well...people only remember the negative.

Topflux
25-12-2007, 04:54 PM
It's disrespectful to me because it sounds like underestimating and disrespecting if you use a nickname of the family name. Using a nick name like Mike or MJ is different..

m1958j
25-12-2007, 05:18 PM
I definitely get offended for Michael. When you use something that someone has stated painfully that they do not like, it doesn't matter if you mean it endearingly. Don't hurt those you love.

qbee
25-12-2007, 06:30 PM
I have noticed that some fans get upset when MJ is referred to as *****. The thing is that ***** is a short for Jackson. Its used by the media/non-media to address people with the last name Jackson. Admittedly the media use it a lot for MJ. What I find offensive is when the term ***** is used to rhyme with an offensive word in describing MJ e.g W**** ***** and s*** like that.

I remember a very good British gymnast with last name Jackson who was called ***** by the media. In fact he had fans/family with banner 'Go *****' etc.

Anyways what are your thoughts etc

I dont get offended by *****
Only ***** ***** -

many fans endearenly call him *****
so we shouldnt pounce on them for that
Only if they use a negative with it.

elusive moonwalker
25-12-2007, 07:57 PM
Wasn't the UK the SOURCE of the phrase "***** *****"? And if so, people always remember the negative - you have to do 20 positive things to make people try to forget one negative. And the word "*****" has been used so many times negatively, that the positive doesn't fare too well...people only remember the negative.

yes it was the uk. but what you dont get is that ***** was not created for mj its a nickname that is as old as the earth in the uk and other countries. so when ***** is said in the Uk it has nothing to do with *****.the only connection is when the 2 names are said together. ***** is not a negative its what anyone who has that surname gets called. its the fans who are turning it into a negative interms of thinking straight away of ***** but the 2 names are not joined at the hip they are totally seperate.

mello1
25-12-2007, 08:26 PM
I have noticed that some fans get upset when MJ is referred to as *****. The thing is that ***** is a short for Jackson. Its used by the media/non-media to address people with the last name Jackson. Admittedly the media use it a lot for MJ. What I find offensive is when the term ***** is used to rhyme with an offensive word in describing MJ e.g W**** ***** and s*** like that.

I remember a very good British gymnast with last name Jackson who was called ***** by the media. In fact he had fans/family with banner 'Go *****' etc.

Anyways what are your thoughts etc
I know what it's short for. The sentiments behind using it when referring to MJ has been generally with disrespect, at least in my country.

So I hate it.

mello1
25-12-2007, 08:39 PM
I think it's like anything really, if you use it to mean offence or indifference to that person, it's wrong, doesn't matter what the word is or how you say it.

If it's just the way you talk or it's a cultural thing and you are using it as a way to show endearment or respect or mateship etc then surely it's acceptable on some level.

Mind you I wouldn't call Michael ***** due to the fact that I know he doesn't like it.
But that's just the point LJ. In the states and among African American culture, it is very highly disrespectful and the term is used with the ultimate of belittling disrespect here. It basically reduces MJ's achievements and legacy to a point of indifference to the haters.

mello1
25-12-2007, 08:54 PM
depends on how the word is used. whether its with w.a.c.k.o for eg.its not the nicest sounding name ill say that. it has different meanings i think depending on what country you are in. as in the uk and Oz (others from there have said) if u have a last name that ends in son be it jackson or gibson for eg then u always get called gibbo or ***** when at school etc.its the oldest nickname in the book and wasnt created just for mj. its not a negative name just a nickname like any other.in countries where this doesnt happen they seem to find the nickname more offensive because they think the name is ment to be negative but the name on its own isnt.its just a nickname nothing more nothing less. news paper headlines are only offensive when the W is put b4 *****. otherwise its as i said above and just abriviating the name to create more space as papers do
It's not negative in your country. If someone over here uses the word 'bloody', it's because someone has blood on them. It's not a cuss word. ***** does not translate into a term of endearment in the US, I can tell you that much.

mello1
25-12-2007, 08:56 PM
See this is where the language and cultural differences gets interesting. :p

In one breath your saying don't call him by the nickname "*****" , but in the next breath you say it is ok to call him by other nicknames such as "Mike" or "MJ" It's interesting not just as fans, but as different people from different cultures to see which nicknames we allow and which ones we dont :) ... so what is it that makes which nicknames appropriate and which ones inappropriate? is it how it is accepted by a majority? by the individual? or by the culture we know?

(please note I'm not picking at your Linda :) but merely using your quote as an example of differences ;) )

I think the reason why "*****" isn't accepted like "Mike Jack" etc is purely due to the negative connections that the press have put with the name.
It also appears to me that maybe in the US even if ***** isn't added to the word *****.... the word in itself might sound harsh and short as opposed to the full name. So hence sounding disrespectful :)

and like i said earlier the other reason we tend not to use or like *****, is purely because MJ don't like it either :p
It's clear to me, because '*****' is not thought of as a nickname here. That's the difference.

mello1
25-12-2007, 09:02 PM
The point of this topic was to share views about the term '*****' among fans. From my country the term '*****' is used as a short for anyone named Jackson. As a result I do not get all heated up as soon as someone says *****. Following the conversation here I have also been able to see how similar acceptance of this term exist in other countries as well. This is not the case however it seems in the states. This differences between different cultures/countries has become very apparent. Especially by the 'heated' responses given by your self among others mainly from the states.

So we have established that MJ dislikes both terms ***** and W**** J**** (perhaps been American himself I can now understand). As to quoting the Bible and talking about Christianity and 'Treat others as you will like to be treated' part of your post.... I don't think it necessary or relevant. A simple answer of Yes I hate the term because MJ hates it. Will have been enough.
I would venture to say that MJ doesn't care for either term, although I'm sure that he is aware that in Europe and Australia, the J*acko name does not have the negative connotation as it does in the states.

mello1
25-12-2007, 09:30 PM
seeing as its about nicknames what names get shortened in the U.S.A. because from the replies on here it doesnt seem at all that the ***** nickname is used at all for ppl called jackson gibson etc.. what about smithy and jonesy for ppl with smith and jones as surnames? the opinions seems to come from ppl not knowing the origins of such nicknames therfore automatically thinking it as negative and like it was created just for mj when obviously it wasnt.

and the racist accusation is ridiculous. that obviously comes from not knowing the origin of the nickname.
From my experience and observation, surnames are not commonly shortened in that way in the states. What is more common here is for nicknames to be the surname in full, or the initials of a person's first and last name or a nickname altogether different from the person's given name. I also have a '-son' surname and my father is referred to the first part of the '-son' surname by his very closest circle of buddies, but that is highly discrete and personal and he would never stand for anyone else calling him that because people don't know him like that. And I can tell you it would never have an 'O' ending on it either.

Furthermore, IMO, this is not about understanding the origins of how 'J*acko' came about, but it does help to understand that it is not thought of as offensive in other countries and the reason behind that.

However, you have to respect that it IS thought of as disrespectful here, no matter how puzzling it may be to you as well as to others who don't live in the States.

Also, Max's position that the term is racist to him is not ridiculous. It comes from his perspective and his experiences which are obviously different from your perspective and experiences. And I might also venture to say that it's probably closer to how MJ views it than you may want to think or believe...

mistermaxxx
25-12-2007, 10:03 PM
I think I got you confused so I apologise, I was not saying that it's a cultural thing for some places to call Michael Jackson "*****"

I was merely pointing out that in different places the shortening of a name is often used as a friendship/mateship thing, or as sign of mutual respect.

I personally don't call Michael "*****"... never have, it just doesn't sound right, and that is before I think of the negative side that it has associated with the word.


As for the christian comment, I'm not of any faith :flowers: and the Religion thread we had running a while back at MJJF demonstrated that the board is of a diverse nature when it comes to religion and faith... just as we are with cultural and social interactions as demonstrated in this discussion on the word "*****"

I'm trying to open the conversation up to discuss the actual word and to demonstrate differences. Otherwise the thread would just be everyone responding with "No I find it offensive, Michael finds it offensive" etc :)

The teaching of "treat other's as you wish to be treated" is older than the bible though B)






mistermaxx you claim the word is racist. Can I ask for an explaination? Does the word "*****" actually mean something else other than that it is short for Jackson or that it rhymes with *****?
I'm kinda curious is all and would love to understand a little better as it might also help me to understand why so many US members seem to be more defensive and angry over the word as opposed to other members who just say "Oh I don't like it"

:)they are calling a Black Grown Man out of his name. it is n't meant as a joke it's meant to make him seem crazy, dangerous and a threat to society like he isn't human. it's a code of words that isn't pleasent.

JudgingNoone
25-12-2007, 10:13 PM
This is a very interesting discussion for me. Since English is not my native language, the name ***** has no special connotation for me. I know that MJ dislikes it, so I avoid it.

What was hard for me to understand was the racism angle. I'm not saying it's not true, because I don't know whether it is, but I do know that the British tabloids give nicknames to all celebrities, of all colours. Just a couple of examples:

Madonna - Mags (if I recall correctly)
Sarah Ferguson - Fergie
Paul McCartney - Macca
Paul Gascoigne - Gazza
David Beckham - Becks

The list just goes on. So from the point of view of the British tabloids, I don't think the name is racist or even insulting in itself. From an American point of view it may be entirely different.

JN

gemini27
25-12-2007, 10:32 PM
i can't understant where racism comes in either in the nick ***** but for sure it is not just an ordinary nickname given to a person. There is a malicious connotation attached to it. You kno.. as in ***** *****. It wasnt coined by the press as a term of endearment for Michael but definitely a snide remark full of sarcasm.

it certainly doesnt sit well with me because it diminishes respect for michael jackson. it isnt the way to treat an icon. here's michael's sentiment:

'm not *****, I'm Jackson... ****** *****' - Where did that come from? Some English tabloid. I have a heart and I have feelings. I feel that when you do that to me, it's not nice. -Michael Jackson

MsTenda
25-12-2007, 11:16 PM
There's no justification for calling Michael Jackson "*****" whatsoever. He doesn't like it and it hurts him.


You should not say he's *****. I'm not a *****, I'm Jackson! Yeah, ***** *****.. where does that come from? Some English tabloid. I have a heart and I have feelings. I feel that when you do that to me. It's not nice. Don't do it. I'm not a *****. - Michael Jackson

***** is degrading to him, no matter what anyone says or what culture dictates what. HE doesn't like it. No one here likes to be disrespected, right? So why call him something that he hates?

I'm offended by it. Don't like it at all. Blah!

L.J
26-12-2007, 12:55 AM
I think I need to clarify something, I personally don't think anyone here or any other fans etc for that matter call Michael "*****". I certainly don't call him *****, and don't know many folks who do.

I was just nosing about the differences in culture and language.

But this does strike me as interesting because to give a nickname or a shortening of a name, is considered a sign of affection/respect here.... yet as mistermaxx says above, it's calling a grownman out of their own name. So I'm going to assume, that maybe nicknames in the states is more of something you might give a child, and that when you are an adult like a right of passage, people show you respect by calling you by your full name. Like moving from "master Jerry" to "Mr Jerry"

So my questions now is, do people from the states get offended by the likes of me, who would change your name? even if t's done in affection? Like calling Gary "Gazza" instead?

gemini27
26-12-2007, 01:24 AM
m obviously not from the states so i'd leave it to u folks to whom this question is directed:p

however, i don't think it matters if ur from the states or not. it really depends on what ur motive is or what motivated u to give a person a nickname. certainly, the media calling Michael "***** *****" is not motivated by their 'fondness' for michael but an attempt to make him a laughing stock by further accentuating his "perceived" eccentricities.

***** per se may not mean anything but it is almost always paired with ***** and that changes it

mello1
26-12-2007, 05:13 AM
I think I need to clarify something, I personally don't think anyone here or any other fans etc for that matter call Michael "*****". I certainly don't call him *****, and don't know many folks who do.

I was just nosing about the differences in culture and language.

But this does strike me as interesting because to give a nickname or a shortening of a name, is considered a sign of affection/respect here.... yet as mistermaxx says above, it's calling a grownman out of their own name. So I'm going to assume, that maybe nicknames in the states is more of something you might give a child, and that when you are an adult like a right of passage, people show you respect by calling you by your full name. Like moving from "master Jerry" to "Mr Jerry"

So my questions now is, do people from the states get offended by the likes of me, who would change your name? even if t's done in affection? Like calling Gary "Gazza" instead?
Once again LJ, the point that you are missing here is that name is not regarded in any way, shape, form or fashion as a nickname, which in my mind is a name of endearment. It is simply not seen that way here.

mello1
26-12-2007, 05:17 AM
m obviously not from the states so i'd leave it to u folks to whom this question is directed:p

however, i don't think it matters if ur from the states or not. it really depends on what ur motive is or what motivated u to give a person a nickname. certainly, the media calling Michael "***** *****" is not motivated by their 'fondness' for michael but an attempt to make him a laughing stock by further accentuating his "perceived" eccentricities.

***** per se may not mean anything but it is almost always paired with ***** and that changes it
The question was 'Do you get offended by the name J*acko'. The reason why it does matter geographically is that in Europe and in other parts of the world, the shortening of the surname 'Jackson' is commonly 'J*acko', similar with other names. So the question that peeps who don't live in the States started asking was why it appeared that peeps from the States seemed highly offended by the term and that is how we have gotten to this point in the discussion.

LindaC781
26-12-2007, 05:40 AM
The question was 'Do you get offended by the name J*acko'. The reason why it does matter geographically is that in Europe and in other parts of the world, the shortening of the surname 'Jackson' is commonly 'J*acko', similar with other names. So the question that peeps who don't live in the States started asking was why it appeared that peeps from the States seemed highly offended by the term and that is how we have gotten to this point in the discussion.

The answer is...for quite a long time (and this is STILL happening, by the way!) is that whenever we saw the word "*****", it was ALWAYS preceded by "*****". So now, we are conditioned to think "***** *****" whenever we see the word "*****".

My question to YOU is this - why do people from other countries insinuate that their version of "nicknames" ("*****" is not a nickname by the way - it is OFFENSIVE) is benign and non-controversial? I think many of the nicknames for other celebrities such as Becks is disrespectful too! Use of the name "Becks" implies that you know the man personally enough to use a nickname for him! I DON'T KNOW David Beckham or Michael Jackson personally, so I will use either Mr. Beckham or Mr. Jackson respectively. This is known as PROPER ETIQUETTE. Something that obviously is NOT being taught in todays world.

The way I see it - "*****" is NOT a nickname. It is a hurtful, disrespectful term that is used over and over again and is totally un-called for. Most fans living in the United States hate it. You got your answer...

Nachtspicht
26-12-2007, 05:42 AM
Once again LJ, the point that you are missing here is that name is not regarded in any way, shape, form or fashion as a nickname, which in my mind is a name of endearment. It is simply not seen that way here.

Hmmm... I think I am on LJ's side here. I also consider it a nickname. A mostly negative one for sure, but a nickname non the less.
I think the key is in the way it is used or who gives it to him, we all know MJ has more (less flattering nicknames) like Smelly, Doodoo which do not seem to be bothering him? Only those were given to him by friends/famliy and not by tabloid.

mello1
26-12-2007, 06:13 AM
Hmmm... I think I am on LJ's side here. I also consider it a nickname. A mostly negative one for sure, but a nickname non the less.
I think the key is in the way it is used or who gives it to him, we all know MJ has more (less flattering nicknames) like Smelly, Doodoo which do not seem to be bothering him? Only those were given to him by friends/famliy and not by tabloid.
I didn't know that we were taking sides. I was merely pointing out that in the United States, it would not be considered a nickname, that's all.

mello1
26-12-2007, 06:16 AM
The answer is...for quite a long time (and this is STILL happening, by the way!) is that whenever we saw the word "*****", it was ALWAYS preceded by "*****". So now, we are conditioned to think "***** *****" whenever we see the word "*****".

My question to YOU is this - why do people from other countries insinuate that their version of "nicknames" ("*****" is not a nickname by the way - it is OFFENSIVE) is benign and non-controversial? I think many of the nicknames for other celebrities such as Becks is disrespectful too! Use of the name "Becks" implies that you know the man personally enough to use a nickname for him! I DON'T KNOW David Beckham or Michael Jackson personally, so I will use either Mr. Beckham or Mr. Jackson respectively. This is known as PROPER ETIQUETTE. Something that obviously is NOT being taught in todays world.

The way I see it - "*****" is NOT a nickname. It is a hurtful, disrespectful term that is used over and over again and is totally un-called for. Most fans living in the United States hate it. You got your answer...
I'm not sure that I can answer your question Linda as I'm from the States, but the way it has been explained is that this is a common way of shortening surnames in Europe.

Thus J*acko is a nickname in Europe.

It is not considered a nickname in the U.S.

J5master
26-12-2007, 07:17 AM
yes but even though it may be a nickname in europe, Mj has made it pretty clear that he doesn't wanna be called ***** in ANY respects.

He doesn't wanna be called ***** in America, in europe, in africa, in asia, in Iceland, in Never Neverland, in Hoo-ville, in Capricus Analomy in the sea of Space, in Captain eo's SHIP, in Club 30, in Disneyland, on tour, not on tour, when he's in his gold pants, in the Twilight Zone, in Gula Gula Island, in Bahrain, in the hotel, in the studio, in his jet, In the Closet, in his SUV, on top of his SUV, or in the CLUB! :lol:

So there's no reason to use it. It really doesn't matter if its not offensive to a group of people...lol. to MICHAEL, its offensive. And since I care about the guy, I really don't like it when people refer to him as such cuz i KNOW he finds it offensive.

mello1
26-12-2007, 05:34 PM
yes but even though it may be a nickname in europe, Mj has made it pretty clear that he doesn't wanna be called ***** in ANY respects.

He doesn't wanna be called ***** in America, in europe, in africa, in asia, in Iceland, in Never Neverland, in Hoo-ville, in Capricus Analomy in the sea of Space, in Captain eo's SHIP, in Club 30, in Disneyland, on tour, not on tour, when he's in his gold pants, in the Twilight Zone, in Gula Gula Island, in Bahrain, in the hotel, in the studio, in his jet, In the Closet, in his SUV, on top of his SUV, or in the CLUB! :lol:

So there's no reason to use it. It really doesn't matter if its not offensive to a group of people...lol. to MICHAEL, its offensive. And since I care about the guy, I really don't like it when people refer to him as such cuz i KNOW he finds it offensive.
I agree. At the end of the day, it's MJ's opinion that really counts. While I personally hate it and am offended by it, he has clearly stated that it bothers him.

In all of the places you mentioned! :p

L.J
26-12-2007, 06:33 PM
My question to YOU is this - why do people from other countries insinuate that their version of "nicknames" ("*****" is not a nickname by the way - it is OFFENSIVE) is benign and non-controversial? I think many of the nicknames for other celebrities such as Becks is disrespectful too! Use of the name "Becks" implies that you know the man personally enough to use a nickname for him! I DON'T KNOW David Beckham or Michael Jackson personally, so I will use either Mr. Beckham or Mr. Jackson respectively. This is known as PROPER ETIQUETTE. Something that obviously is NOT being taught in todays world.


as a matter of fact, yes our "nicknames" are benign and non controversial, and not something evil, as you are implying by using words such as "insinuate"
just because our way of speaking is different doesn't mean we are evil or that we mean evil by using a shortened version of a word or name. In fact if you find it offensive etc then a holiday to Australia might be incredibly horrifying. Imagine you're asked if you'd like "to come ova on saturdie arvo for a cuppa?"
Because that is how we speak...
(translation: would you like to come over on saturday afternoon for a cup of tea or coffee?)

I know I'm playing devil's advocate in this thread by taking the thread a little off topic in regards to discussing nicknames as opposed to just discussing whether we find the word offensive.

I know we as fans find the word offensive, I find it offensive too when used to address Michael. Not just because he doesn't like it and because it rhymes with ***** or anyt of the other reasons mentions, but also because it doesn't fit him. The nickname "*****" to me is the big bloke working on the farm, of the guy who plays center half back for the local footy team.


I'm merely trying to develop some kind of understanding between different members about the different ways in which people speak and perceive things :) because some people aren't aware that something that sounds offensive in one place... might not elsewhere. For example... If i called you "a silly bastard" ... you would probably be shocked and offended and ready to come and hit me one. Whereas here the comment is used to describe someone fondly of being silly. It's more in the way it's said than what it looks like in text too :)




and for the record.... I do have proper ettiquette and don't just randomly go up to people and start calling them by a nickname I make up. and whenever I speak with someone who isn't a mate, I use "sir, miss, Mr etc"


blegh it's 5am I probably shouldn't be trying to explain this whilst half awake.

you'll either understand and "get" what I'm saying :lol: or we'll just have to agree to not let me post any more :yes:

mello1
26-12-2007, 07:03 PM
Ha! I vote we lock u out LJ! heeeeeeeeeeeee............:p

*~MJ Loves MJ~*
26-12-2007, 07:14 PM
This is a good thread. ^_^

My opinon; I've come to the conclusion that it is just simply a nick-name. However, having said that, it does all depend on the context that it is used in.

Like L.J. has stated, '*****' is seen by some as just a short form of the name Jackson, yet in a friendly association. For example; if you were to say, 'Yeah last nite ***** and I went to that party. We had a great time, although I have to say HE MADE that pary! It wouldn't have been even half the fun without the dude." Now that's used in a postive tone.

On the other hand, if you say something like, "Yesterday Jaco was seen shopping with his kids on Rodeo (sp?) Drive. Huumm, maybe he was looking for a ***********." (I won't make up something ignorant, we've all seen enough garbage by the media so we'll just assume that the next part is negative.) THIS past example is more offensive to me, simply because the name "Jaco" is used to mock the person, to make fun of. The previous one was a positive statement.

Also, I think the main reason why Michael does hate this short form of his name, is not for the name '*****' itself, it's for what usually follows behind it, 'w***o.' When you say the name 'Jaco,' you're already expecting the next word to come along. Michael is so used to hearing the two put together, that he anticipates the word 'wa**o' immediatley after hearing 'Jaco.' I think this is another reason why the name offends him.

In the end, if the man doesn't feel comfortable hearing that name, it shouldn't be used. ;)

Rasta Pasta
26-12-2007, 09:15 PM
if I remember correctly .. I think the name was 1st used by an Australian journalist so it COULD rhyme with *****...

if I can find the article on the this guy .. Iwill post it..

and I wouldn't be surprise if that guy is related to Murdoch..(of course I have no proof of this)...

FUJON
26-12-2007, 09:40 PM
We All KNOW - Michael Don't like it!
So, what for this stupid mess about? :huh:

J5master
26-12-2007, 10:29 PM
We All KNOW - Michael Don't like it!


Really and that's IT. LOL

FUJON
26-12-2007, 10:40 PM
Thread is closed :tongue:

benscarr
26-12-2007, 11:35 PM
I hate the term *****. It's sounds stupid, and it was made up by The Sun newspaper in 1986. I have no idea why some fans use ***** as part of there screen names on fan sites.

Also Michael said in a 1997 interview with Babara Walters that he hates the nickname *****. Michael Jackson something like "I'm not a *****, it's Jackson", and I agree with him.

mello1
26-12-2007, 11:38 PM
Thread is closed :tongue:
Oh noooooooo. We gonna keep it open for ever

and ever....

and ever....

and ever....

and ever.....:p

athina_livadi
27-12-2007, 12:17 AM
"*****" doesn't exist in my vocabulary. His name is Mr. Michael Jackson

Forever_Mike
27-12-2007, 12:53 AM
Oh noooooooo. We gonna keep it open for ever

and ever....

and ever....

and ever....

and ever.....:p

:lol::lol::lol:
Just wondering peeps do you care when "*****' is used for other celebs. Does this article upset you or are you indifferent because its Peter Jackson and not MJ.
http://www.megastar.co.uk/movies/news-single-view/article/2/*****-signs-on-for-hobbit-1.html

LindaC781
27-12-2007, 02:52 AM
:lol::lol::lol:
Just wondering peeps do you care when "*****' is used for other celebs. Does this article upset you or are you indifferent because its Peter Jackson and not MJ.
http://www.megastar.co.uk/movies/news-single-view/article/2/*****-signs-on-for-hobbit-1.html

Since when did Peter Jackson get referred to as "*****"?? I never saw ANYTHING that referred to Peter Jackson as "*****"...??

mello1
27-12-2007, 03:26 AM
:lol::lol::lol:
Just wondering peeps do you care when "*****' is used for other celebs. Does this article upset you or are you indifferent because its Peter Jackson and not MJ.
http://www.megastar.co.uk/movies/news-single-view/article/2/*****-signs-on-for-hobbit-1.html
I don't think I care for it being used on anyone. It just comes across as disrepectful to me...

L.J
27-12-2007, 03:30 AM
Ha! I vote we lock u out LJ! heeeeeeeeeeeee............:p


Nooooooo http://209.85.12.232/4551/152/emo/runaway%5B1%5D.gif

I'm having fun even if I do feel like I'm banging mr head against the wall :wild:



Since when did Peter Jackson get referred to as "*****"?? I never saw ANYTHING that referred to Peter Jackson as "*****"...??

***** isn't reserved just for Michael Jackson ;)





I think another reason the press use nicknames such as "Madge, Becks" etc is to make these celebs feel like old pals. The more you read about good ol' Becks the more you feel like you know the guy, so in a weird way you can relate to the article better *shrugs* I dunno, it could just be that nicknames also tend to be shorted :lol: so maybe they save $$ on using less letters :rofl:

mello1
27-12-2007, 03:31 AM
Who let u back in LJ?:p:p:lol:

L.J
27-12-2007, 04:56 AM
ahahaha :rofl:


I can't help myself it appears :tongue: :lol:

Forever_Mike
27-12-2007, 08:32 AM
Since when did Peter Jackson get referred to as "*****"?? I never saw ANYTHING that referred to Peter Jackson as "*****"...??


Nooooooo http://209.85.12.232/4551/152/emo/runaway%5B1%5D.gif
***** isn't reserved just for Michael Jackson ;)

Yup! In the UK at least ***** is/has been used for lotta other celebs (with last name Jackson).


I think another reason the press use nicknames such as "Madge, Becks" etc is to make these celebs feel like old pals. The more you read about good ol' Becks the more you feel like you know the guy, so in a weird way you can relate to the article better *shrugs* I dunno, it could just be that nicknames also tend to be shorted :lol: so maybe they save $$ on using less letters :rofl:

I agree, also the job of the media is to grab headlines, so the nicknames makes it easier.

LindaC781
27-12-2007, 11:15 AM
Nooooooo http://209.85.12.232/4551/152/emo/runaway%5B1%5D.gif

I'm having fun even if I do feel like I'm banging mr head against the wall :wild:




***** isn't reserved just for Michael Jackson ;)





I think another reason the press use nicknames such as "Madge, Becks" etc is to make these celebs feel like old pals. The more you read about good ol' Becks the more you feel like you know the guy, so in a weird way you can relate to the article better *shrugs* I dunno, it could just be that nicknames also tend to be shorted :lol: so maybe they save $$ on using less letters :rofl:

You didn't answer my Question LJ....tell me where Peter Jackson is referred to as "*****".....quote a webpage, or a newspaper or a magazine...can you??

Huh??

Persistent, aint I?

LindaC781
27-12-2007, 11:21 AM
Just think of me as this Forum's Pit Bulll...I will not let go till I get an answer from you LJ (singing).....;)

Forever_Mike
27-12-2007, 11:29 AM
:lol::lol::lol:
Just wondering peeps do you care when "*****' is used for other celebs. Does this article upset you or are you indifferent because its Peter Jackson and not MJ.
http://www.megastar.co.uk/movies/news-single-view/article/2/*****-signs-on-for-hobbit-1.html


Since when did Peter Jackson get referred to as "*****"?? I never saw ANYTHING that referred to Peter Jackson as "*****"...??

You have seen the link I posted on early (see above)!

eternitys_child
27-12-2007, 11:33 AM
You didn't answer my Question LJ....tell me where Peter Jackson is referred to as "*****".....quote a webpage, or a newspaper or a magazine...can you??

Huh??

Persistent, aint I?
Its in the article she posted but it is not clear to me if it is him they are referring to.

Forever_Mike
27-12-2007, 11:40 AM
Here is the article! You can also view it from this LINK http://www.megastar.co.uk/movies/news-single-view/article/2/*****-signs-on-for-hobbit-1.html

***** signs on for Hobbit
Jackson: Ring leader

Lord of the Rings trilogy director Peter Jackson has now officially signed on to produce not one, but two Hobbit movies sending Tolkien buffs into hysterics.

A lucrative Hobbit film had looked to have been shelved after Jackson fell out with New Line Cinema over cash generated by the opening film in the Rings successful Rings trilogy.

The films are likely to be shot back-to-back with a release earmarked for 2010 and 2011.

‘I'm very pleased that we've been able to put our differences behind us,’ said the bearded auteur.

‘We are delighted to continue our journey through Middle Earth.’

It’s unclear who will direct the Hobbit movies or if Sir Ian McKellen will reprise his role of Gandalf, it also remains to be seen if Andy ‘Gollum’ Serkis will don the bobbly lycra suit for motion capture duties.

Sir Ian had previously expressed an interest with ***** now in place surely it’s all systems go, but why do we have to wait so long.

It looks like a busy few years for Jackson who is also co-producing a trilogy of CGI Tintin movies with Steven Spielberg.

Jackson’s next celluloid treat is an adaptation of Alice Seebold’s book the Lovely Bones and primed for a 2008 release.

And yes they are referring to Peter Jackson. Hence the picture of Peter Jackson!:lol: Anyway this is just one of many in this country. Other famous people with Jackson have also been called ***** by the press. I chose this article to also show that in the U.K at least ***** isn't a 'racial' motivated nickname.

eternitys_child
27-12-2007, 11:44 AM
I just think you have to take the customs of people into account. That works both ways. In this case when an article comes out of GB or Australia and it uses the nickname in a positive article I understand it is meant to imply a camaraderie. If I see it used in the US I don't like it because it is not a custom here. We shorten first names here in the same way they do last names in Australia but never last names that I can think of.

Not everyone has knowledge of every comment Michael has ever made and may not know he said he didn't like it. I also believe he referred to not liking it in the context of talking about W**ko.

So don't hurt L.J. She doesn't mean any harm.

LindaC781
27-12-2007, 11:45 AM
Here is the article! You can also view it from this LINK http://www.megastar.co.uk/movies/news-single-view/article/2/*****-signs-on-for-hobbit-1.html

***** signs on for Hobbit
Jackson: Ring leader

Lord of the Rings trilogy director Peter Jackson has now officially signed on to produce not one, but two Hobbit movies sending Tolkien buffs into hysterics.

A lucrative Hobbit film had looked to have been shelved after Jackson fell out with New Line Cinema over cash generated by the opening film in the Rings successful Rings trilogy.

The films are likely to be shot back-to-back with a release earmarked for 2010 and 2011.

‘I'm very pleased that we've been able to put our differences behind us,’ said the bearded auteur.

‘We are delighted to continue our journey through Middle Earth.’

It’s unclear who will direct the Hobbit movies or if Sir Ian McKellen will reprise his role of Gandalf, it also remains to be seen if Andy ‘Gollum’ Serkis will don the bobbly lycra suit for motion capture duties.

Sir Ian had previously expressed an interest with ***** now in place surely it’s all systems go, but why do we have to wait so long.

It looks like a busy few years for Jackson who is also co-producing a trilogy of CGI Tintin movies with Steven Spielberg.

Jackson’s next celluloid treat is an adaptation of Alice Seebold’s book the Lovely Bones and primed for a 2008 release.

And yes they are referring to Peter Jackson. Hence the picture of Peter Jackson!:lol: Anyway this is just one of many in this country. Other famous people with Jackson have also been called ***** by the press. I chose this article to also show that in the U.K at least ***** isn't a 'racial' motivated nickname.

Ok..I stand corrected...the headline DOES say"*****"....however, the rest of the article doesn't persist in calling him "*****"...

LindaC781
27-12-2007, 11:46 AM
Also...this is just one article..not the thousands that refer to Michael Jackson as "***** *****" throughout the net.....care to produce another one?? Heh heh heh...;)

eternitys_child
27-12-2007, 11:46 AM
Okay. I hadn't even noticed it was also in the title of the article. lol

The picture means nothing to me by the way. I have no idea who he is other than from the article. :D

Forever_Mike
27-12-2007, 12:04 PM
Okay. I hadn't even noticed it was also in the title of the article. lol

The picture means nothing to me by the way. I have no idea who he is other than from the article. :D

Really? Wow! I take it you have heard of 'The Lord of the rings!'? He is the director of that among other films.:yes:


Ok..I stand corrected...the headline DOES say"*****"....however, the rest of the article doesn't persist in calling him "*****"...

*****’s `Thriller` in Grammy Hall Of Fame
Washington, Dec 21: The latest inclusions in the Grammy Hall Of Fame selections are Michael Jackson`s ‘Thriller’ and Pink Floyd`s ‘The Wall’.

The selections are among the 70 recordings that have been added to the prestigious list.

The other 2007 selections among the Recording Academy`s list are Lynyrd Skynyrd`s rock anthem ‘Free Bird’, Love`s classic album ‘Forever Changes’ and Willie Nelson`s country hit ‘Always On My Mind’.

The Grammy Hall of Fame Award is a special Grammy award established in 1973 to honor recordings that are at least twenty-five years old and that have "qualitative or historical significance".

The number of recordings in the list now turns to 798, reports Contactmusic.

Bureau Report with ANI Inputs
http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=414484&sid=ENT&sname=ENTERTAINMENT-NEWS&ssid=2&ssname=Music

I can't see persistence there!

Anyway MJ hates the term so we will leave it at that.

Forever_Mike
27-12-2007, 12:07 PM
Also...this is just one article..not the thousands that refer to Michael Jackson as "***** *****" throughout the net.....care to produce another one?? Heh heh heh...;)

It will be a fun game won't it? But no! Got better things to do. Anyway the discussion topic was on '*****' and not 'W**** J****.

eternitys_child
27-12-2007, 12:16 PM
Oh sure. Of course I have heard Lord of the Rings. I guess I just don't usually pay that much attention to names, just Michaels. lol

I take back what I said about never liking it if I see it used in a US publication. I think 411mania is US isn't it?

This was just published in it today:



4. Michael Jackson is the King of pop.

Josh McAuley: Fiction. There is absolutely no denying that Michael Jackson has had a huge career, been a revolutionary force in pop music and become an icon. However, in spite of this I have to say fiction. "Pop" music is a contemporary genre that has never had one true sound and has endured many crazes over the years. Because of its current nature it is hard to argue that there is ever a "king" of pop as what is cool one minute will shift the next. King? No. Icon? Yes.

Daniel Wilcox: Fact. I have to disagree whole-heartedly here, though Josh has a good argument. But while pop is certainly a contemporary genre, I don't think you can argue for anybody innovating or having more success with it than *****. If anything has gone against his claim to be King, it's got nothing to do with music and more to do with his image and the fact that he has became more of a punch line than a King. Still, *****'s a legend. Everyone knows his stuff and everyone likes it whether they're into pop or not. Jackson made pop popular and is its one true King.




Definately not used in a negative way here. Perhaps Daniel Wilcox is an Aussie?

LindaC781
27-12-2007, 12:25 PM
Really? Wow! I take it you have heard of 'The Lord of the rings!'? He is the director of that among other films.:yes:



*****’s `Thriller` in Grammy Hall Of Fame
Washington, Dec 21: The latest inclusions in the Grammy Hall Of Fame selections are Michael Jackson`s ‘Thriller’ and Pink Floyd`s ‘The Wall’.

The selections are among the 70 recordings that have been added to the prestigious list.

The other 2007 selections among the Recording Academy`s list are Lynyrd Skynyrd`s rock anthem ‘Free Bird’, Love`s classic album ‘Forever Changes’ and Willie Nelson`s country hit ‘Always On My Mind’.

The Grammy Hall of Fame Award is a special Grammy award established in 1973 to honor recordings that are at least twenty-five years old and that have "qualitative or historical significance".

The number of recordings in the list now turns to 798, reports Contactmusic.

Bureau Report with ANI Inputs
http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=414484&sid=ENT&sname=ENTERTAINMENT-NEWS&ssid=2&ssname=Music

I can't see persistence there!

Anyway MJ hates the term so we will leave it at that.

Amen to that one!!

KOPV
27-12-2007, 04:38 PM
I get offended by I know not EVERYONE means it in an offensive way.. I have even seen MJ fans have screen names..

*****fan etc..

It more depends from WHO is it being said from...

J5master
27-12-2007, 07:28 PM
yeah I'm sure some FAns don't find it personally offensive....cuz they're not MICHAEL :lol:

there's no way of getting around it, MICHAEL finds it offensive lol

eternitys_child
27-12-2007, 07:38 PM
yeah I'm sure some FAns don't find it personally offensive....cuz they're not MICHAEL :lol:

there's no way of getting around it, MICHAEL finds it offensive lol
I am just saying we shouldn't be angry with everyone who does it because depending on their background, etc. they may mean no harm. On the other hand, by their being made aware of how it is taken here it is also correct for them to try to be considerate of our/Michael's customs.

Forever_Mike
27-12-2007, 07:41 PM
yeah I'm sure some FAns don't find it personally offensive....cuz they're not MICHAEL :lol:

there's no way of getting around it, MICHAEL finds it offensive lol

True. The thing I wonder tho' is that in countries like the UK whereby '*****' is used by the press for most peeps with last name Jackson and whereby the press prefer nicknames for celebs, isn't it naive to expect the press to treat MJ differently from the other? (in this sense).

The bottom line is that the press will not change anytime soon. So ***** will appear for better or worse. As someone pointed out b4, MJ has been called much, much worse.

J5master
27-12-2007, 07:47 PM
No but that doesn't dismiss the fact that MJ doesn't like the name. I'm not gonna call MJ that name cuz 'all the tabloids make nicknames for celebs'. MJ doesn't like the name, it's just respectful NOT to use it when referring to him. I KNOW michael knows that he's been called much worse, but doesn't make the lesser offensive names any better lol.

FUJON
27-12-2007, 08:06 PM
Oh noooooooo. We gonna keep it open for ever

and ever....

and ever....

and ever....

and ever.....:p
:lol:
it's a miracle! you can laugh at mods only at Christmas Holidays :p

Bee.
27-12-2007, 11:20 PM
I have noticed that some fans get upset when MJ is referred to as *****. The thing is that ***** is a short for Jackson. Its used by the media/non-media to address people with the last name Jackson. Admittedly the media use it a lot for MJ. What I find offensive is when the term ***** is used to rhyme with an offensive word in describing MJ e.g W**** ***** and s*** like that.

I remember a very good British gymnast with last name Jackson who was called ***** by the media. In fact he had fans/family with banner 'Go *****' etc.

Anyways what are your thoughts etc

My thoughts about the name is that I think the name is degrading and wrong. That name is NOT his name. When the US media uses that name, it is to degrade him and insult him. They can call him Mike, Michael, Mickey, Mikey, MJ, but they call him by that stupid ass name! The man's name is MICHAEL JACKSON. There is nothing ***** about MJ. I do not care what anyone thinks/says. He does wacky things, i.e. the bookstore situation, dangling the little one, marrying those women, hiring Stuart Backerman, etc. However, that does not equate to being a wacky person. We all know who is really wacky - Britney Spears.

gemini27
27-12-2007, 11:35 PM
***** per se is not offensive. However, it becomes offensive if there is a malicious connotation attached to it. And there goes the rub.

There may be a million *****s out there and they may find that nickname alright but the most famous of them all is Michael so we are discussing ***** here in the context the media uses it on him.

It wasnt coined out of their fondness for him bec. it is almost always paired with *****. And our man, Michael, has made it clear he is offended by it.

My point is, any nickname given to anybody is ok if it is ok also with the person to whom that nickname is given. If that person says,"please don't call me such bec. it is hurting me" then name calling shld stop. In Michael's case, it persists to this day even if he has stated that it is not ok. That's when disrespect comes in. That is not ok

sfboys
28-12-2007, 02:55 AM
Nope. Only with "*****" attached. "*****" is news-speak for "Jackson". No prob with that.


I have noticed that some fans get upset when MJ is referred to as *****. The thing is that ***** is a short for Jackson. Its used by the media/non-media to address people with the last name Jackson. Admittedly the media use it a lot for MJ. What I find offensive is when the term ***** is used to rhyme with an offensive word in describing MJ e.g W**** ***** and s*** like that.

I remember a very good British gymnast with last name Jackson who was called ***** by the media. In fact he had fans/family with banner 'Go *****' etc.

Anyways what are your thoughts etc

mjalwaysonmymind
28-12-2007, 04:06 AM
well, i'm here in the states, not great britain.

and over here, the term is used only negatively. so yes, it's offensive.

that's calling him out his name. it's disrespectful to change the man's name

I totally agree.

L.J
28-12-2007, 07:58 AM
Also...this is just one article..not the thousands that refer to Michael Jackson as "***** *****" throughout the net.....care to produce another one?? Heh heh heh...;)

With pleasure :p

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2007/12/11/8962_hpsport.html

article about rugby...


"He's got Justin that can play five-eighth, Burnsie can slip into halfback and Wattsie's there and you have got ***** too, so he has got a few options and however he plays them, the club has confidence in them to do it."


http://forbes.yourguide.com.au/news/sport/general/bentick-trophy-coming-to-an-end/1099709.html

article about a bowls tournament....



Also played over the weekend were two games in the Ferguson Shield, Shane Sharman defeated Lawrence (*****) Jackson 31 to 26 and young David Brown defeating Geoff Williams in a nail biting 31-30.



http://stgeorge.yourguide.com.au/news/local/general/surf-report-with-john-veage/1147934.html

article about surf...



Also you should go and visit Greeny at *****'s and make him wrap up blocks of wax for chrissie presents, 20 or thirty would be good.HO HO HO!





Check out AFL lunatic Mark "*****" Jackson taking on rugby league star Mal Meninga in the boxing ring in 2003. Watch it, it's a great way to waste 4 minutes and 49 seconds of your life. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW1jrbR4WFA



http://grenfell.yourguide.com.au/news/local/general/carols-in-the-park-this-sunday/1103318.html

Article about christmas carols in the park


Our town band under the baton of Mr ***** Birch will accompany the carols.



;):D:p

LindaC781
28-12-2007, 11:21 AM
Thanks "*****"...

Forever_Mike
28-12-2007, 12:52 PM
Its very interesting to me to read of the different opinions/views on this topic. However can I just say again that the topic does NOT suggest that MJ should be called '*****' but rather asks for Your opinions on whether this term in itself is offensive to you (in relationship to both MJ and other celebs).

The other 'myth' that I have noticed is the notion that calling someone by their full name is a sign of Respect! I call this a myth simply because insulting someone can depend on other factors such as the content used, tone of voice, body language etc. So despite the fact that Sneddon has never called MJ '*****' and had always referred to him as Mr Michael Jackson etc he wasn't doing it out of respect for MJ's feelings. Nor was he been Respectful to MJ when he was trying his best to convince the world that Mr Michael J Jackson is a molester. :rolleyes:

If I read two articles; one very disrespectful to MJ but referred to him as Michael Jackson and the other positive but referred to him as '*****', I will not be saying 'Oh well the 'nasty' article at least showed him some respect! :rolleyes:

In the same tone then some of us don't get ready-to-fight when we see '*****' (possibly because of the countries we live/come from). The main thing is that although MJ finds the term offensive, the use of this term will not stop. So it really comes to individual choices on how to react to this term. That choice is totally Yours.

Dangerous Incorporated
28-12-2007, 01:42 PM
No in fact I use it. I dont mean in it the disresptful way because I dont think of it that way or him. Im not calling him ***** ***** just ***** cuz its shorter than Michael Jackson.

andythemisfit
28-12-2007, 01:54 PM
I think PaedoPan is more offensive!

KOPV
28-12-2007, 03:46 PM
One thing I do know is Michael does not like being called '*****' it hurts him.. It's a part of the reason why I would not use it, and why I don't like the word.

L.J
28-12-2007, 04:39 PM
Thanks "*****"...

:rofl:

my last name isn't Jackson :p ... though my first name is Linda :cool:

LindaC781
28-12-2007, 10:10 PM
:rofl:

my last name isn't Jackson :p ... though my first name is Linda :cool:

Okay. But I noticed your quick response to my post...so that means that YOU are offended by the use of the word "*****"....:lol

Hey, I didn't get an "A" in Psychology for nothing...heh heh heh

eternitys_child
28-12-2007, 10:28 PM
Okay. But I noticed your quick response to my post...so that means that YOU are offended by the use of the word "*****"....:lol

Hey, I didn't get an "A" in Psychology for nothing...heh heh heh
I suspect you are assuming something that may not be there although your intent was obviously to be insulting to her so that has to be taken into account. She has given examples of how ***** is used in Australia and they are obviously not using it derogatorily. You are assuming that just because in our/your culture shortening last names is, if done at all, derogatory (we do it to first names instead) someone from another culture will feel the same way.

Congratulations on your A but sometimes a little bit of knowledge is a bad thing. In a world in which borders are so transparent we need to understand how to interpret things done by people in other cultures. Wars have started over misunderstandings that were just that. A misinterpretation of peoples actions because their customs were not understood.

gemini27
28-12-2007, 10:36 PM
uh-oh...i can feel some heat

LindaC781
28-12-2007, 10:52 PM
I suspect you are assuming something that may not be there although your intent was obviously to be insulting to her so that has to be taken into account. She has given examples of how ***** is used in Australia and they are obviously not using it derogatorily. You are assuming that just because in our/your culture shortening last names is, if done at all, derogatory (we do it to first names instead) someone from another culture will feel the same way.

Congratulations on your A but sometimes a little bit of knowledge is a bad thing. In a world in which borders are so transparent we need to understand how to interpret things done by people in other cultures. Wars have started over misunderstandings that were just that. A misinterpretation of peoples actions because their customs were not understood.

Yes, I have to agree...I was assuming a lot. However, she was quick to point out her last name was not Jackson. These are just written words, and I can't interpret exactly what she was trying to say here, but it did sound a bit defensive. Methinks it MAY have something to do with the use of the word "*****", but then again, it may not..

LindaC781
28-12-2007, 11:12 PM
Just wanted to add....I think we're gettin more hits here on this forum....add some controversy, and it works like a CHARM! LOL!

eternitys_child
28-12-2007, 11:14 PM
Yes, I have to agree...I was assuming a lot. However, she was quick to point out her last name was not Jackson. These are just written words, and I can't interpret exactly what she was trying to say here, but it did sound a bit defensive. Methinks it MAY have something to do with the use of the word "*****", but then again, it may not..
It sounded offensive to me but I'm not Australian (and I knew you didn't mean it nice). That is the catch. It is why someone started the thread. They are having as hard a time understanding our reaction as we are theirs I think.:flowers: Even the fact that you are from the US and used it generally gives it a different connotation to me.

LindaC781
28-12-2007, 11:20 PM
I had no intent of making it sound offensive...it was meant to sound "nice"...I saw the initials L.J. and assumed her name was "Jackson", so I just referred to her by a "nickname".. and that is MY point here.

eternitys_child
28-12-2007, 11:30 PM
Just wanted to add....I think we're gettin more hits here on this forum....add some controversy, and it works like a CHARM! LOL!
I know. Everyone stops to watch if they think there is going to be a knock down drag out. Its human nature. lol

gemini27
28-12-2007, 11:31 PM
can we lighten up a bit here? :worried: i think we may have been taking things too seriously...

Thriller_MJ
29-12-2007, 12:01 AM
I don't find ***** offensive but if people use it in an angry way to well slag MJ then i get offended by it but apart from that i'm ok with it

mello1
29-12-2007, 12:03 AM
can we lighten up a bit here? :worried: i think we may have been taking things too seriously...
Well, it is a serious discussion for some folk....;)

LindaC781
29-12-2007, 12:09 AM
can we lighten up a bit here? :worried: i think we may have been taking things too seriously...

Oh but I am light...I am just discussing the possibility of someone whose last name is Jackson possibly being offended by being called "*****"...even though I was using this NON-offensively, and quite nicely as a nickname! :lol Don't worry - this is still a light-hearted conversation..;)

Forever_Mike
29-12-2007, 04:03 AM
I suspect you are assuming something that may not be there although your intent was obviously to be insulting to her so that has to be taken into account. She has given examples of how ***** is used in Australia and they are obviously not using it derogatorily. You are assuming that just because in our/your culture shortening last names is, if done at all, derogatory (we do it to first names instead) someone from another culture will feel the same way.

Congratulations on your A but sometimes a little bit of knowledge is a bad thing. In a world in which borders are so transparent we need to understand how to interpret things done by people in other cultures. Wars have started over misunderstandings that were just that. A misinterpretation of peoples actions because their customs were not understood.

Thanx! :clap:

J5master
29-12-2007, 04:13 AM
Well Cameran Jackson, Bob Jackson, and John Doe Jackson MAY not find it offensive....but that doesn't take off the fact that, MICHAEL DOES :lol:

qbee
29-12-2007, 04:27 AM
I notice people keep saying that Michael hates being called ***** - and that is not true - Michael didnt say he was offended by ***** -- He was only offended by ***** *****
even Mj know the difference ...

I could be wrong but
I believe he didnt say ***** offended him in ANY interview
He said ***** ***** offended him - there is nothing
derogatory with the nickname ***** .. only when you add
an offensice prefix to it does it become offensive - The fans
are the ones that took it to far - by saying ***** was offensive - Michael never did ...

Please show me the quote from Michael if you want to disagree. and it will prove what MJ said about it.

He said "***** *****" not "*****"
there is a BIG difference (smile)

J5master
29-12-2007, 04:31 AM
"I'm not *****, I'm jackson" Pretty clear cut to me. The point is he just wanna be called by his NAME...and the phrase ***** on it's own, really didn't start become popular (as reference to MJ) until someone added "*****" to it.

I mean, I just don't get why people are so adament in calling MJ by this name LOL.

eternitys_child
29-12-2007, 05:57 AM
"I'm not *****, I'm jackson"
But you have that out of context. The sentence prior to that was something like "W**ko *****, what's that?" wasn't it?

J5master
29-12-2007, 06:01 AM
But that's just it though, that context is in ASSOCIATION. And MJ doesn't like the association..PERIOD. Thats why instead of saying "***** *****", he just said "*****, I'm Jackson"...meaning, just CALL ME BY MY NAME. LOL So we destroy all of that association.

Dangerous Incorporated
29-12-2007, 06:05 AM
Well Cameron Jackson, Bob Jackson, and John Doe Jackson MAY not find it offensive....but that doesn't take off the fact that, MICHAEL DOES :lol:

When Michael said, "Im not *****, Im Jackson", he was clearly talking about the media calling him ***** ***** which is offensive and if I were Mike Id be mad too.

I say ***** because its the nickname for Jackson which isnt offensive. Funny I have a friend called ***** and my dog is ***** too! And I like all 3 *****'s!

eternitys_child
29-12-2007, 06:05 AM
But that's just it though, that context is in ASSOCIATION. And MJ doesn't like the association..PERIOD. Thats why instead of saying "***** *****", he just said "*****, I'm Jackson"...meaning, just CALL ME BY MY NAME. LOL So we destroy all of that association.
Again. I wouldn't call him *****. I am from the US as you are. It wouldn't feel right to me and I seem to have heard somewhere Michael doesn't like it. lol. But I still do not get offended when I read it in a foreign publication that is speaking positively about him when I know their custom regarding it is different than mine.

J5master
29-12-2007, 06:08 AM
But in general, it's been established that the whole "***** *****' thing CAME from overseas lol. Thats why I'm saying I'd RATHER not hear them refer to him that way period. MJ has that association now...in general. So I mean, I'm not saying I'm gonna punch someone out if i see "*****" in an article, but i'd rather not them say it period. And I definitely wouldn't like fans using it but that's just me.

Dangerous Incorporated
29-12-2007, 06:09 AM
Hell I wouldnt call him ***** to his face. In fact my family knows that if I met him again just one on one Id call him Mr. Jackson seems I dont personally know him so thats just respectful as you would anyone else.

L.J
29-12-2007, 07:38 AM
Okay. But I noticed your quick response to my post...so that means that YOU are offended by the use of the word "*****"....:lol

Hey, I didn't get an "A" in Psychology for nothing...heh heh heh



Yes, I have to agree...I was assuming a lot. However, she was quick to point out her last name was not Jackson. These are just written words, and I can't interpret exactly what she was trying to say here, but it did sound a bit defensive. Methinks it MAY have something to do with the use of the word "*****", but then again, it may not..


ahahahaha I wasn't offended :rollin: I was merely pointing out that you can't address me as ***** cause my last name isn't Jackson, if it was I wouldn't have even blinked at you calling me *****, unless I thought you were being snide or something. I wasn't defensive at all :lol: I thought we were having a bit of a joke :lol:

The J for the record stands for Jean :p

SoS
29-12-2007, 01:49 PM
Yes. I find it extremely offensive. They have to try and make the shrewdest most ingenius man in the world look like he's wacky just because he insists on expressing his individuality (isn't that what the arts is for??)

I have three wishes (fantasies) for Michael regarding this..

1. He (and his fans) get to a point where it is no longer hurtful to us thereby relinquishing it of its power to offend, that way they may knock it off.

2. Some really pursuasive person (say Stevie Wonder for instance) holds a press conference about something entirely unrelated to the "name" issue (but related to Michael) and says to the world that each time they call him out of his name they are attempting to belittle the contribution of three generations of an African American entertainment dynasty, tantamount to calling the entire Jackson family "boy" and it is perceived as a last ditch, covert racist ploy (dramatic but it may get them to stop since its politically incorrect to be openly perceived as racist)

3. Michael secures intellectual copyrights on the use of that name in connection with his person so that anytime it is ever used, he getz paid. I would think that'd dam sho make em stop.

i can dream..

KOPV
29-12-2007, 05:30 PM
watch this Michael talking about "*****", and ****** *****' on the Barbara Walters interview

4:49-5:10
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CRV_zpRiyqc&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RtgqiJnXRKg
2:54-3:29

LindaC781
29-12-2007, 05:46 PM
First of all....L.J...I was just yanking your chain..all in fun..yes...and second of all....I take the word "*****" offensively. I can't help it. It's like if MY last name were Jackson, I wouldn't want ANYONE calling me "*****"....too close to the other word if you add two "ff"'s at the end...wouldn't like that one bit...

KOPV
29-12-2007, 06:11 PM
Also keep in mind that term ***** came from ****** *****'... It was made to rhyme, be katchy etc.. If "***** *****' would not have been said, '*****' would not have either.. Even if ***** on it's own is not a big deal.. WE ALL KNOW where it came from.


It's like X on X-mas.. Ya people use it short now for Christmas.. But it was MADE to CROSS OUT Christ in CHRISTMAS.. X-mas. When you know where it comes from it is more offensive.

~Lindsey~
29-12-2007, 06:41 PM
Yes, I do get offended by people naming Michael Jackson "*****" because although it is a shortening of a name like "Steve" instead of "Steven" it is in my mind too closely linked with the phrase "***** *****" which is disrespectful. Everytime I hear "*****" i'm thinking "*****" and I don't like that. Also seeing a video clip of Michael Jackson saying he doesn't like the term makes me not want to use the name as he views it as derogatory himself. I would not be offended if they called him "Jackson" as he is a "Jackson" and that isn't closely linked with anything but "Michael". I just think that the "*****" is used on purpose because they know that people immediatly think "*****"

J5master
29-12-2007, 06:50 PM
Also keep in mind that term ***** came from ****** *****'... It was made to rhyme, be katchy etc.. If "***** *****' would not have been said, '*****' would not have either.. Even if ***** on it's own is not a big deal.. WE ALL KNOW where it came from.


It's like X on X-mas.. Ya people use it short now for Christmas.. But it was MADE to CROSS OUT Christ in CHRISTMAS.. X-mas. When you know where it comes from it is more offensive.

OMG REALLY?????????

Dannnnggg lol

KOPV
29-12-2007, 07:17 PM
'Xmas' is all a part of the attempt to secularizing christmas..

It goes VERY deep, and is a complete different topic than *****. lol! but lets just say MANY things have been covered, not just with 'religion' but EVERYTHING..

We are all pawns to these lies and conspiracies. I'm not the type that is all paranoide etc. about what goes on behind the scene. I have just learned a lot from others that have SEEN too much. And my natural desire to learn about the TRUTH.

I think it all started with me, trying to find ways to PROVE the truth about Michael.. From that, I noticed I was doing it with other things.. American History that has been covered up. etc.. It's fun learning, and passing it on.

Mechi
29-12-2007, 09:34 PM
There are ppl who'd make or say whatever negative or positive just to get a response from Michael Jackson... either because they are obsessed with him (obsessive ppl do so) or because it will give them their minute of fame, in this case they are more obsessed with themselves somehow!

I personally don't like anyone offending anyone while I do like ppl who are respectfull towards others.
As Michael said he feels offense by that term I want ppl to pay him respect and not use it.
It's not I feel offended myself but it gives me a clear impression of the person using that term and probably they'd not get any role further in my life.

gemini27
29-12-2007, 11:06 PM
Well, it is a serious discussion for some folk....;)


Oh but I am light...I am just discussing the possibility of someone whose last name is Jackson possibly being offended by being called "*****"...even though I was using this NON-offensively, and quite nicely as a nickname! :lol Don't worry - this is still a light-hearted conversation..;)

let's bring it on!!!:p seriously, this discussion is really interesting. see how many impassioned arguments the simple question posed?

Topflux
29-12-2007, 11:31 PM
I always remember that Barbara's "mysterious behaviour" from Barbara Walters interview.. :) Michael should write a song called Mysterious Behaviour and it could be about the tabloids.. :) Tabloids have made Michael's behaviour "mysterious" in the first place. Just look at the latest where post it were put on his face.. Come on.

mello1
29-12-2007, 11:40 PM
When Michael said, "Im not *****, Im Jackson", he was clearly talking about the media calling him ***** ***** which is offensive and if I were Mike Id be mad too.

I say ***** because its the nickname for Jackson which isnt offensive. Funny I have a friend called ***** and my dog is ***** too! And I like all 3 *****'s!
It's not that clear to me. In my mind, the name '*****' as used when referring to MJ brings with it the connotations of being crazy and I don't think that point is wasted on MJ. I don't think he cares for it either. Even if he didn't mind, I personally still find it as highly offensive and would never refer to anyone in that way.

But that's me.

Tipareth
30-12-2007, 11:55 AM
Yes I am offended... But if the article is let's say 80-90% positive, I've learned to ignore it. It's about survival in this world full of stupidity and hate, we cannot be too delicate and get away with a healthy mind... Maybe some of them just act stupid by just copying others.. and mentioning it... I dunno...

Over all, I thing it's a very mean and ugly saying, hurtful and I really want it to dissapear for good, and never ever read it again.

TUSALMJ
30-12-2007, 07:50 PM
OMG......Xmas has nothing to do with trying to take Christ out of it. I am postin some wikipedia on ya'lls ass.

The word "Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ)" and its compounds, including "Christmas", have been abbreviated for at least the past 1,000 years, long before the modern "Xmas" was commonly used. "Christ" was often written as "XP" or "Xt"; there are references in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_Chronicle) as far back as 1021 AD. This X and P arose as the uppercase (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uppercase) forms of the Greek letters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet) χ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_%28letter%29) and ρ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rho)), used in ancient abbreviations for Χριστος (Greek for "Christ"), and are still widely seen in many Eastern Orthodox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox) icons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icons) depicting Jesus Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Christ). The labarum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labarum), an amalgamation of the two Greek letters rendered as ☧ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E2%98%A7), is a symbol often used to represent Christ in Catholic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic), Protestant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant), and Orthodox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church) Christian Churches.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas#_note-1)
Nevertheless, some believe that the term is part of an effort to "take Christ out of Christmas" or to literally "cross out Christ";[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas#_note-2) it is seen as evidence of the secularization of Christmas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularization_of_Christmas), as a symptom of the commercialization of the holiday (as the abbreviation has long been used by retailers). It may also be seen as a vehicle to be more inclusive. (See political correctness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness).)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Simple_Labarum2.svg/150px-Simple_Labarum2.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Simple_Labarum2.svg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Simple_Labarum2.svg)
The labarum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labarum), often called the Chi-Rho, is a Christian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian) symbol representing Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ).


The occasionally held belief that the "X" represents the cross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross) on which Christ was crucified also has no basis in fact. St Andrew's Cross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Andrew%27s_Cross) is X-shaped, but Christ's cross was probably shaped like a T or a †. Indeed, X-as-chi was associated with Christ long before X-as-cross could be, since the cross as a Christian symbol developed later. (The Greek letter Chi Χ stood for "Christ" in the ancient Greek acrostic ΙΧΘΥΣ ichthys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys).) While some see the spelling of Christmas as Xmas a threat, others see it as a way to honor the martyrs. The use of X as an abbreviation for "cross" in modern abbreviated writing (e.g. "Kings X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_X)" for "Kings Cross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Cross%2C_London)") may have reinforced this assumption.
In ancient Christian art, χ and χρ are abbreviations for Christ's name.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas#_note-3) In many manuscripts of the New Testament and icons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon), X is an abbreviation for Christos, as is XC (the first and last letters in Greek, using the lunate sigma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_%28letter%29)); compare IC for Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) in Greek. The Oxford English Dictionary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_English_Dictionary) documents the use of this abbreviation back to 1551, 50 years before the first English colonists arrived in North America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America) and 60 years before the King James Version (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version) of the Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible) was completed. At the same time, Xian and Xianity were in frequent use as abbreviations of "Christian" and "Christianity"; and nowadays still are sometimes so used, but much less than "Xmas". The proper names containing the name "Christ" other than aforementioned are rarely abbreviated in this way (e.g. Hayden Xensen for the actor name "Hayden Christensen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayden_Christensen)"). This apparent usage of "X" to spell the syllable "kris" (rather than the sounds "ks") has extended to "xtal" for "crystal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal)", and on florists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florist)' signs "xant" for "chrysanthemum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysanthemum)"[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas#_note-4) (though these words are not etymologically related to "Christ"; "crystal" comes from a Greek word meaning "ice"; "chrysanthemum" comes from Greek words meaning "golden flower"; "Christ" comes from a Greek word meaning "anointed").
In the 17th and 18th Centuries, "Xene" and "Exene" were common spellings of the given name Christene.



ANYWAY, now to the main point at hand. ***** is a very sick and demeaning word. It should NOT be used at all in reference to Michael JACKSON. Point closed and I think this thread should be as well.



-D

mello1
30-12-2007, 08:49 PM
It's okay for the discussion to be discussed Tusal.

TUSALMJ
31-12-2007, 12:29 AM
It's okay for the discussion to be discussed Tusal.

:p

-D aka Mr. Krankypants today.

raingirl
05-01-2008, 07:55 PM
I have noticed that some fans get upset when MJ is referred to as *****. The thing is that ***** is a short for Jackson. Its used by the media/non-media to address people with the last name Jackson. Admittedly the media use it a lot for MJ. What I find offensive is when the term ***** is used to rhyme with an offensive word in describing MJ e.g W**** ***** and s*** like that.

I remember a very good British gymnast with last name Jackson who was called ***** by the media. In fact he had fans/family with banner 'Go *****' etc.

Anyways what are your thoughts etc
I don't get personally upset but since I know that Michael doesn't like being called ***** I don't use it. I don't get the fans who use it when they talk about Michael.

whilst I agree that it is offensive when it rhymes with something like W***o etc

Here in Australia *****, is short for Jackson. It's used in two positive lights usually, one being "my mate ***** said that.." ... or it's just used as a quicker shorter way of saying a name. (we naturally shorten words and names). It can actually be used as a term of respect or mateship. You know they've fully accepted you when they ad an o or an a to your name ;) "Johnno wants us around for drinks" or "Azza (aaron) has a new job"

I'd be ok with it too if it had not been used with the word ***** *****. I can understand that like in austalia it's used as a term of friendship when talking about someone whose name is Jackson.

Here in Finland there is a way of greeting a good old mate by saying a certain swear word and then the persons name usually with a very loud voice. One must say it just right to make it sound friendly instead of angry.


Yes I am offended... But if the article is let's say 80-90% positive, I've learned to ignore it.
:yes: me too.

Forever_Mike
05-01-2008, 09:53 PM
I honestly think that if we ignore the term in the media and separate it from W**** etc it will lose its power for the tabloid that use it to incite pain/anger to MJ fans. If we take the general attitude of 'whatever' and focus more on the content its written/presented in then it will be better.

By the way I would ask MJ this very question if/when i get a chance. I really don't think that he knew at the time of the interview that in some countries ***** isn't used offensively nor is it automatically implies W****.
I reckon MJ is much more open minded and accommodating of others cultures/history. He may even be interested to know that other famous Jackson's are also referred to as *****.

Anyways that's just my opinion.

azza
19-01-2008, 02:38 PM
i like the name j.acko because where im from everyone uses nicknames & people refer to mj as that,& not in an offensive way.if you have ***** before it or something like that its offensive of course.as for j.acko i actually think it sounds cool.if that offends anyone then i cant do much about it.
i really dont see the problem with a fan using the name.the way media use it is totally wrong though.thats not right.

also there is/was a race horse here called j.acko,so there is alot of love & affection for that name.its different in different parts of the world.i hope fans understand that as well.

Invincible J
19-01-2008, 02:51 PM
Well MJ stated in his interview with Barbra Walters that he HATES that name. I couldn't care if other people don't mind being called it, the fact is MJ hates being called it himself and I think it's respectful not to refer to him as that name.

Roxanne
19-01-2008, 03:00 PM
yes i do and michael does too

brnthsdiscout
19-01-2008, 03:02 PM
i don't like either names, i always thought both were disrespectful....that's why i'm glad over here seems like both names are banned...@ mjno it wasn't...i really feel for mike, to be going in his 50's and to be still called names like that. even though, it's not always meant to be negative, my point is that's not his name and he's made it very clear in the past how much he detests being called by both...

suspicious_mind
19-01-2008, 03:03 PM
Yeah actually i do get offended by it pretty bad cause it was given to him along with ******' so it wasnt given in good faith. Its a direct slam to him from the media and i cant feel too good about that.

do_re_mi
19-01-2008, 03:59 PM
I do get offended. Media doesn't use it as a nice nickname or anything like that. And if Michael doesn't like to be called it we shouldn't.

DARKLIGHTDAN
19-01-2008, 04:06 PM
its just disrespectful to not call someone by there proper name, although i hate the 'daniel' i hate people calling me 'danny.' its ignorant.

ennazus
19-01-2008, 04:06 PM
Honestly, I just ignore this name when I see it.

But I always felt tt it was rude, because not only it is insulting MJ himself but also the family because they are makin fun of the family name.

What the media is doing is just bullying, and no one is doing anything to stop them. They'll probably stop when every single celebs start sue-ing their butts off!

azza
19-01-2008, 04:23 PM
its just disrespectful to not call someone by there proper name, although i hate the 'daniel' i hate people calling me 'danny.' its ignorant.

really? you get insulted if somebody calls you danny instead of daniel? im the opposite to that.if somebody calls me azza instead of aaron i really like it.i find it really endearing lol.
when i was a kid people called me aaron/sharon or aaron/karen & it hurt my feelings because i was a kid,but if somebody said it to me now i find it funny.
i was dating a girl named sharon & it was aaron & sharon & it was soooooo funny.if michael don't like being called ***** then i will stop calling him that of course.but why have some of the people here who find the name insulting refer to michael as mj?
if he wants to be referred to by his birth name should we also drop the tag 'mj'?

The_Glove
19-01-2008, 04:28 PM
It doesn't bother me that much, I don't like *****, but ***** don't bother me as i call my lil cousin it. Everyones diff though.

kissybissy
19-01-2008, 05:03 PM
I do not care to be honest. It's derogative, no doubt. However, if I worried about what the junk press write about Michael or any other celebrity I'm a fan of, I would go nuts, lol

144,000
19-01-2008, 07:55 PM
of course i'm offended. simply because MJ is offended. and i don't see why, based on the fact that everybody is offended by what they personally take offense to, that MJ fans wouldn't be offended by that five letter word, simply because MJ is offended by it. it's logical. simply a case of being in your own shoes. now, if you honestly don't take personal offense to anything, ever in your life, that is directed at you, then i'd understand you not taking offense to MJ being called that word, simply because he is offended by it. but i don't think that there is anyone in life that doesn't take personal offense to something.

kissybissy
19-01-2008, 10:06 PM
We have to try to keep these issues in perspective. The gutter press always write stuff about celebrites that is not flattering, so to speak. Also, most part of the articles published in the tabloids and such are meant only to make headlines, not actually to offend the artist and even when it is the case you cannot take it personally. It's par for the course in the entertainment business.

tambam89
20-01-2008, 02:16 AM
Yeah, I definitely get offended. :yes:

144,000
20-01-2008, 02:19 AM
We have to try to keep these issues in perspective. The gutter press always write stuff about celebrites that is not flattering, so to speak. Also, most part of the articles published in the tabloids and such are meant only to make headlines, not actually to offend the artist and even when it is the case you cannot take it personally. It's par for the course in the entertainment business.

it's easy to keep it in perspective............. when it's about someone other than ourselves.

jakethejolly
20-01-2008, 03:24 AM
i don't know about anyone else, but i only find ***** to be like those names school bullies give you. if thats the best name the media can come up with to describe a-less-than-conventional singer, then they are obviously less-than-professional.

Marni
20-01-2008, 03:32 AM
I don't get "offended" - if I did, I probably wouldn't read any aussie article on Michael! :lol: I definitely don't like it and I agree with Michael on the "name". It's silly, pointless and derogatory. :yes:

FinalEyes
20-01-2008, 03:42 AM
I hate the name ***** *****. I never use it, and I try to stop people from using it.

Grand Master S
20-01-2008, 09:33 AM
I personally am more offended at anyone who actually thinks it's funny, and would feel that way even if I wasn't a Michael Jackson fan, because it is comedically lame. I want to say it's a 4th grade insult, but honestly 4th grade kids are funnier than that. Journalists stick it in there as if they're saying something giggle-worthy or amusing. The fact that the name stuck makes me sad for people's taste in humor. I remember in middle school, when I'd sort of temporarily drifted from being an MJ fan for whatever reason (it didn't have anything to do with the allegations. I was an early childhood fan, then I drifted at about the age of 9, then I became a full fledged fan again in my mid-teens), and I was talking to two kids...

Kid #1: Yeah, they call him ***** *****.

Then they both proceeded to laugh as if they'd told the best joke ever.

Me: What the hell are you idiots laughing at? That was retarded. It rhymes. Wow.

Oddly enough, the discussion made me go home later that day and re-discover "The Way You Make Me Feel." So thanks for that, geeks.

Maja_Malibu
20-01-2008, 11:23 AM
I think it depends on who is saying/writing it. If it is used as a shorter nickname only, I'm not offended cause many people just don't know that Michael doesn't like to be referred to as ****. On the contrary, if they're referring to him as (*****) **** in a tabloid magazine making fun of him etc. I surely get offended by that!

I think that many people (including Michael) just get offended by **** as this name is often used in a negative context and has a negative connotation.

MJ~And~Me
20-01-2008, 12:05 PM
i hate it. :mad: :yes: :yes:

azza
20-01-2008, 03:45 PM
I personally am more offended at anyone who actually thinks it's funny, and would feel that way even if I wasn't a Michael Jackson fan, because it is comedically lame. I want to say it's a 4th grade insult, but honestly 4th grade kids are funnier than that. Journalists stick it in there as if they're saying something giggle-worthy or amusing. The fact that the name stuck makes me sad for people's taste in humor. I remember in middle school, when I'd sort of temporarily drifted from being an MJ fan for whatever reason (it didn't have anything to do with the allegations. I was an early childhood fan, then I drifted at about the age of 9, then I became a full fledged fan again in my mid-teens), and I was talking to two kids...

Kid #1: Yeah, they call him ***** *****.

Then they both proceeded to laugh as if they'd told the best joke ever.

Me: What the hell are you idiots laughing at? That was retarded. It rhymes. Wow.

Oddly enough, the discussion made me go home later that day and re-discover "The Way You Make Me Feel." So thanks for that, geeks.

and what about the context in which you use the word 'retarded' to describe people? i have a family member who is slow & goes to a school for retarded people.and you use that word in a derogatory sense as if its ok,yet your offended by the name j.acko?

its a little hypocritical if you ask me.you have fans on the one hand that get sooooo offended by something they regard as grossly offensive,yet they'll refer to using other types of (imo far worse terms) & not give it a passing thought or realize they could be offending others.

i like you grand master,your a really nice person ( and im not offended by what you said) but im just using your quote as an example of everyday terminology in which 'we are all guilty'.

if a friend of mine says,aaron your an mj fan? i saw j.acko in concert & he was f##king amazing! or aaron,you were drunk lastnight.you were such a retard.im not gonna waste my time feeling insulted or offended.

& for the peeps who do feel insulted,perhaps it's time to practice what you preach!

DARKLIGHTDAN
20-01-2008, 03:55 PM
really? you get insulted if somebody calls you danny instead of daniel? im the opposite to that.if somebody calls me azza instead of aaron i really like it.i find it really endearing lol.
when i was a kid people called me aaron/sharon or aaron/karen & it hurt my feelings because i was a kid,but if somebody said it to me now i find it funny.
i was dating a girl named sharon & it was aaron & sharon & it was soooooo funny.if michael don't like being called ***** then i will stop calling him that of course.but why have some of the people here who find the name insulting refer to michael as mj?
if he wants to be referred to by his birth name should we also drop the tag 'mj'?

(MJ FANS HAVE THE PRIVILEDGE OF CALLING ME ANYTHING :) HE!)
not really insulted as such... but i prefer people to call me by my real name. its like when people shout OI! to get my attention. :(

azza
20-01-2008, 04:07 PM
(MJ FANS HAVE THE PRIVILEDGE OF CALLING ME ANYTHING :) HE!)
not really insulted as such... but i prefer people to call me by my real name. its like when people shout OI! to get my attention. :(

when i was in oz a few years ago their was this new zealand girl who knew my name and referred to me as 'irish'.she knew my name was aaron,& id get from across the road OI,IRISH! what you doing tonight? it got under my skin a few times.

RockWithLou
20-01-2008, 07:25 PM
It'd be a cool nickname if it wasn't know for the negative things they say about him in the media.

Justice!
20-01-2008, 09:08 PM
We should get offended. Michael said in an interview, that his name is "Michael Jackson" not *****, ***** or whatever. Michael don`t like the name.

The media called him ***** always, it´s a disrespectful behavior.

Cinnamon234
20-01-2008, 09:17 PM
I personally hate the name and Michael has said in interviews that he does not like that name so for the life of me, I do not understand why some fans think it's okay or "cool" to call him that. I'm aware however that it's seen as more of a nickname than an insult in other places outside the U.S. (i.e. England) but it's seen as something derogatory here and Michael doesn't like the name at all, so people should respect that.

What's so hard about calling him Jackson anyway?

*~MJ Loves MJ~*
21-01-2008, 02:39 AM
Holy smokes, this thread is still open. -_-

brnthsdiscout
21-01-2008, 05:23 AM
i just call him mike or mj...to mean that's more polite....

Haxafax
21-01-2008, 05:28 AM
Well Michael clearly doesn't like the name. In his interview with Barbara Walters, he even says "I'm not *****, it's Jackson."

Bob George
21-01-2008, 05:38 AM
I don't use it because Michael has said he doesn't like it. But if I was him I wouldn't be offended by it. It's just a nickname. I think it was the "*****" part that made the name offensive. If they just called him "Jack0" then I don't think it would be that bad. He wouldn't have got as offended by it. But whatever. He doesn't like it and that's that. I don't use it and I think media publications should stop using it.

Grand Master S
21-01-2008, 05:38 AM
and what about the context in which you use the word 'retarded' to describe people? i have a family member who is slow & goes to a school for retarded people.and you use that word in a derogatory sense as if its ok,yet your offended by the name j.acko?

its a little hypocritical if you ask me.you have fans on the one hand that get sooooo offended by something they regard as grossly offensive,yet they'll refer to using other types of (imo far worse terms) & not give it a passing thought or realize they could be offending others.

i like you grand master,your a really nice person ( and im not offended by what you said) but im just using your quote as an example of everyday terminology in which 'we are all guilty'.

if a friend of mine says,aaron your an mj fan? i saw j.acko in concert & he was f##king amazing! or aaron,you were drunk lastnight.you were such a retard.im not gonna waste my time feeling insulted or offended.

& for the peeps who do feel insulted,perhaps it's time to practice what you preach!

I think you sort of missed the point of what I said I find offensive about it. Actually, I have an autistic little brother, but when it comes to using the word "retarded" metaphorically to describe something or someone you find stupid even though they're not literally mentally handicapped, I don't get worked up over it. But that's only because I hate it when people laugh at any offensive joke they hear, then get pissed off when they hear one that applies to their life. Now it would be another thing if I heard someone insult someone who's actually mentally handicapped, or my brother especially.

But re-read my original post, 'cause I believe you misinterpreted what I said I found offensive about "*****." It's just really stupid.

sundayroberts1
21-01-2008, 06:56 AM
Michael hates that he is called that name and i find it mean. They don,t do it cause they are doing a short cut to his name they are doing it to hurt him and hurt him it does.

MJDisneyDork
21-01-2008, 06:59 AM
sorry i haven't had time to read through the thread :( so i hope i don't repeat anything... ***** here in the states isn't used ALWAYS as negative..i've seen positive headlines using *****.. so i didn't think anything of it..HOWEVER..in his interview with barbra walters back in the early 90s..he said he didn't ike being called ***** he said "*****? who's that? that's not me. i'm not *****." .. or something like that. sorry if i miss quoted. so i don't get OFFENED hearing it...i just sypathise with mikey when i hear it out of respect because he doesn't like it.

EDIT: ... lol nevermiiinnddd i see this has already been stated many times..... hehe sorrryy

His confessions
21-01-2008, 11:58 AM
Yes I get offended and its horrible how he can be called ***** *****! I HATE IT

@nna
21-01-2008, 12:24 PM
I don't get offended, but he obviously does, and that's what matters in this case, now isn't it?

azza
21-01-2008, 01:36 PM
I think you sort of missed the point of what I said I find offensive about it. Actually, I have an autistic little brother, but when it comes to using the word "retarded" metaphorically to describe something or someone you find stupid even though they're not literally mentally handicapped, I don't get worked up over it. But that's only because I hate it when people laugh at any offensive joke they hear, then get pissed off when they hear one that applies to their life. Now it would be another thing if I heard someone insult someone who's actually mentally handicapped, or my brother especially.

But re-read my original post, 'cause I believe you misinterpreted what I said I found offensive about "*****." It's just really stupid.

no.i read your post more than a few times & i fully understand it.my only point is,that the word 'retarded' is used to describe someones behavior as a casual put-down,but the word actually means something.retarded means 'underdeveloped,mentally'.so thats a pretty insulting observation.

now j.acko means nothing at all.its a nickname.so my only point is their is alot of hypocrisy (of which we are all guilty) living in the modern age of this so called 'political correctness'.

now ******',like 'retard',means something.***** comes from the word wacky which means 'eccentric or funny' in other words 'nut-job'.again 'that word' is the insulting part & i believe (i may be wrong & if i am somebody let me know)it was the news paper 'the sun' that attached ******' to 'j.acko' in the 80's.hence the insult.

now what is wrong with this picture? i have know problem with casual insults because they've always existed & its part of life i guess.& if you are guilty of using it in your own words then in my opinion its a bit cheap & hypocritical to be insulted or offended by a word that means nothing.

what has happend is that because ***** & j.cko have been used in the same breath time & time again,we now see it as the one word.the one meaning.

but ive also seen the term 'j.cko' used in a positive light.such as 'j.acko is backo' & im not offended by the word one bit.thats just me though.ive heard dj's,strangers,friends refer to michael as j.cko & why should i feel offended by that?

if you are going to be offended by the word j.acko,then perhaps you should not use words like 'retard' to discribe others.because that would make you hypocrite.you cant preach one law & practice another.

Tony R
21-01-2008, 01:57 PM
^^ I can't stand the use of the word retard, it is the most highly offensive to some from American youth culture. It's a hideous word to use to describe a person.

On topic, of course j.acko isn't offensive. How many people reading this do not have a nickname that isn't a shortened version of wither their first or surname. Almost every celebrity has this as well (Madonna / Madge, Beckham / Becks).

I can see why you don't like w.acko but come on, Michael invented a lot of that himself in the early years and after everything else he's been called in the last 15 years, "w" is nothing, it's almost affectionate.

Having said that, I'd be happy never to read it again. But banning & getting offended by j.acko is just ridiculous. It would be like like Prince not liking his name and changing to to, I don't know, an unpronouncable symbol...oh wait...

azza
21-01-2008, 02:11 PM
^^ I can't stand the use of the word retard, it is the most highly offensive to some from American youth culture. It's a hideous word to use to describe a person.

On topic, of course j.acko isn't offensive. How many people reading this do not have a nickname that isn't a shortened version of wither their first or surname. Almost every celebrity has this as well (Madonna / Madge, Beckham / Becks).

I can see why you don't like w.acko but come on, Michael invented a lot of that himself in the early years and after everything else he's been called in the last 15 years, "w" is nothing, it's almost affectionate.

Having said that, I'd be happy never to read it again. But banning & getting offended by j.acko is just ridiculous. It would be like like Prince not liking his name and changing to to, I don't know, an unpronouncable symbol...oh wait...

prince...lmao:lol: tony im with you 100%.i can not believe americans use the word retard as a casual put-down & expression of abandonment.i almost had a stroke when i heard 'the black eyed peas' song 'lets get retarded'i found it really astonishing & in very bad taste.

j.acko is a nickname & to be retarded is a serious & sad condition of which my older sister suffers & of which ive spent many a daying crying & worrying about her life yet people use the word without a care in the world.i worry for the youth of today.i dont know who is to blame,but they seem to lack in morals & ethics which is really sad.

im not a prude by any means,but ive always prided myself on certain behaviors & morals.

also,can somebody tell me,when somebody says 'i got retarded lastnight' does that mean they got drunk? i take it,it does.

Grand Master S
22-01-2008, 12:42 AM
no.i read your post more than a few times & i fully understand it.my only point is,that the word 'retarded' is used to describe someones behavior as a casual put-down,but the word actually means something.retarded means 'underdeveloped,mentally'.so thats a pretty insulting observation.

now j.acko means nothing at all.its a nickname.so my only point is their is alot of hypocrisy (of which we are all guilty) living in the modern age of this so called 'political correctness'.

now ******',like 'retard',means something.***** comes from the word wacky which means 'eccentric or funny' in other words 'nut-job'.again 'that word' is the insulting part & i believe (i may be wrong & if i am somebody let me know)it was the news paper 'the sun' that attached ******' to 'j.acko' in the 80's.hence the insult.

now what is wrong with this picture? i have know problem with casual insults because they've always existed & its part of life i guess.& if you are guilty of using it in your own words then in my opinion its a bit cheap & hypocritical to be insulted or offended by a word that means nothing.

what has happend is that because ***** & j.cko have been used in the same breath time & time again,we now see it as the one word.the one meaning.

but ive also seen the term 'j.cko' used in a positive light.such as 'j.acko is backo' & im not offended by the word one bit.thats just me though.ive heard dj's,strangers,friends refer to michael as j.cko & why should i feel offended by that?

if you are going to be offended by the word j.acko,then perhaps you should not use words like 'retard' to discribe others.because that would make you hypocrite.you cant preach one law & practice another.

The difference is also that "retarded" typically isn't used as a specific catchphrase or slogan or nickname. ***** ***** is obviously supposed to be clever and especially funny, and it isn't. Which is the only thing I've really said.

As for being comfortable referring to things as "retarded" in general, I guess I'm a bit less reserved in my vocabulary. I do know the line between joking, arguing, and bullying, however, and I would not venture into the latter. I just feel that if I rendered that word offensive in the context it's typically used in jest, I'd have to re-evaluate every joke that pushes the envelope a little. That word can't be wrong simply because it applies to my life because of my brother, while I laugh at other jokes I see on MAD TV, Family Guy, etc. That would be hypocritical. There is a difference between that and specifically hazing somebody, however. I would be very much offended if someone used "retard" or "retarded" to address a mentally handicapped person. I do know what you're talking about when you mention your sister.

I agree with the poster who said that he doesn't find ***** offensive (other than it's comedically lame), but Michael obviously does find it offensive, and that's the important part. I'm sure no one ever considers him as a living person when they write stuff like that. Michael is such an entity-like icon that I think sometimes people forget he actually exists in the world, wakes up the morning, eats, lives, works, sleeps, etc.

markena7
22-01-2008, 01:18 AM
Tes I absolutely find it offensive to call him that because it's used as a degrading term and that is not his damn name his name is michael jackson. and the media needs to stop calling him that name as a matter of fact he needs to take that to court because i get tired of people reffering to him as that. his amazing talent and healing the world goal and tributes shouldn't be under the name *****!!!!!

azza
22-01-2008, 02:00 AM
The difference is also that "retarded" typically isn't used as a specific catchphrase or slogan or nickname. ***** ***** is obviously supposed to be clever and especially funny, and it isn't. Which is the only thing I've really said.

As for being comfortable referring to things as "retarded" in general, I guess I'm a bit less reserved in my vocabulary. I do know the line between joking, arguing, and bullying, however, and I would not venture into the latter. I just feel that if I rendered that word offensive in the context it's typically used in jest, I'd have to re-evaluate every joke that pushes the envelope a little. That word can't be wrong simply because it applies to my life because of my brother, while I laugh at other jokes I see on MAD TV, Family Guy, etc. That would be hypocritical. There is a difference between that and specifically hazing somebody, however. I would be very much offended if someone used "retard" or "retarded" to address a mentally handicapped person. I do know what you're talking about when you mention your sister.

I agree with the poster who said that he doesn't find ***** offensive (other than it's comedically lame), but Michael obviously does find it offensive, and that's the important part. I'm sure no one ever considers him as a living person when they write stuff like that. Michael is such an entity-like icon that I think sometimes people forget he actually exists in the world, wakes up the morning, eats, lives, works, sleeps, etc.

well i do find the word 'retarded' as offensive & (extremely lame being used in such loose context & terms) & part of that 'is' for the very reason of my sisters condition.i don't know about it being wrong of me because it applies to my life.i mean it does apply to my life & its personal to me & im certainly gonna take something that applies to my life alot more serious than something that doesn't.my sister is my blood & the word is offensive.michael jackson is not my blood & j.cko on its own doesnt mean anything & i dont find it offensive.
i just find it pretty amazing that you say your a little less reserved in your vocabulary (have a brother with a condition) have no problem using 'retarded' as a joke,yet you find j.cko (which again,means absolutely nothing on its own)as lame? it just seems a bit hypocritical to me.but thats not your fault either & i understand that.culture changes,words change meaning & we are all to guilty of it to an extent.
thats why i have no problem with j.cko.i cant watch a tv show laugh at a lame joke & then when it comes to a word like j.cko take the moral high ground & express outrage & offence. its just wrong in so many ways.

Grand Master S
22-01-2008, 03:10 AM
it just seems a bit hypocritical to me.but thats not your fault either & i understand that.culture changes,words change meaning & we are all to guilty of it to an extent.

I was merely saying it's a lame unfunny joke. It's not like "retarded" is particularly hilarious either, but it's not really intended to be clever or witty, and ***** ***** is, and fails.

I don't want to get into an extended debate over offensive language, but I do believe that if we only laughed at things that applied personally to absolutey nobody, there'd be almost no good humor left. You couldn't even tell a momma joke or a fat joke. You couldn't tell a joke about drinking because maybe someone standing nearby knew somebody who died from drunk driving and abhors alcohol. It's just a cycle I don't want a part of. I would never purposely joke about subjects knowing there's someone there for whom it's sensitive, but in general, virtually everything is offensive to somebody. And I'm not going to be a politically correct school teacher. I have a personality, much of it involves joking around, and sometimes it goes further than PG-13.