Insurance policy- if negligent homicide will it be considered "overdose"

bgz

Guests
This is something I've questioned the past few days. If the life insurance policy only covered "overdose", does that mean self-administered overdose, or overdose of anything and given by anyone?

Are we 110% sure this is even true r/t the insurance policy, has the document actually been made available to the public, or stated as fact from Lloyds of London or whoever the carrier is?

Accidental or on purpose, if Propofol is determined to be cause of death, and negligent homicide/manslaughter is involved, how does the insurance policy stand on this. Is it then probable that AEG will NOT be receiving coverage in this event?
 
Nope yet it was only Randy Philips the CEO from AEG Live talking in interviews as far as I know, stating that the insurance for the concerts (not necessarily a life insurance that means?) does cover an overdose but not natural cause of death of Michael, think it was an interview with billboard?!

A spokeswomen from Lloyds of London did not really say something to tmz when they asked, she just stated something that she doesn't know cases covering such but she didn't know the details about the AEG coverage for Michaels concerts.

I'll be back to hopefully give you the links.

...and here they are:
Phillips about insurance covering and overdose of drugs as cause of death
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31716678/ns/entertainment-music/

this is from tmz asking the Lloyds person about it
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/03/lloyds-of-london-overdose-clause/
 
Last edited:
It'll depend entirely on the terms of the insurance, and we don't know exactly what they are. I don't think there's been any thing reliable said on that. I think there may also have been multiple insurance policies, not just one.

Remember this was insurance for the concerts, rather than life insurance as such (although obviously that encompasses an element of life insurance). AEG would naturally have wanted it to pay out if the concerts were canceled for any reason, but there would have been exclusions imposed by the underwriters - which often includes pre-existing conditions and drug and alcohol related deaths.

But would a death resulting from a drug that's legal in some circumstances (but not outside a hospital?) administered by a doctor, albeit a negligent doctor, be excluded or not?

I don't think we can answer that. It's probably something that's going to be argued about by teams of lawyers.
 
I have just seen the rehearsal video again and it seems so strange to me to see that and think that he was using drugs like that. Kind of an out of topict comment. I don´t know about the insurance policy.
 
In this interview with billboard R. Phillips says it was done through brokerage Robertson Taylor and that he is sure cuz it Lloyds it was mulitple carriers.
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news...s-randy-phillips-talks-about-1003990387.story

This has a short statement by a Lloyds spokesperson but basically saying nothing. The one who knows declines a statement!
http://cbweb.cr.atl.publicus.com/article/20090626/NEWS/906269995



I'm wondering if the insurance will pay with a manslaughter case as it seems to develope now... nowhere find any hind for that yet.
As said in other threads, I think Lloyds will try to get out of payment... cause it would be ridiculous if AEG would get money from the insurance while the one causing Michaels death (with intention proved or not) is on their payroll...

Most likely it will be a fight for the coming decade probably... if Murray has an insurance those and Lloyds and AEG will negotiate/fight for an eternity probably...

Also not sure how the legal issue is then with the doctor... if for example the children/their guardian/the Jacksons will sue the Dr/his insurance... ?!

I guess lots of scenarios possible.
 
Thanks for the links. It really is hard to get a feel for how this will play out, and I imagine it will be a long, drawn-out, and messy situation.

Assuming Conrad has malpractice insurance, that also plays into things if he is found to be at fault. Michael's estate, family members, AEG, and probably a whole host of people will probably be standing in line.
 
hmmm if it was overdose due to another, i don't think so b/c then it'd be allowing someone to profit off of a death by murder/manslaughter.
 
I've found a pretty interesting interview about the possible insurance scenarios in case someone is also interested, give special notice to the last question ;) :

When concerts fail


The Michael Jackson death mystery continues to crescendo towards the expected announcement of his cause of death. The announcement will have an impact on numerous level the most obvious is being any criminal liability. The announcement will also have an effect on both insurance coverage and civil liability arising out of his death.
It is being reported that concert promoter AEG spent well over $20 million in preparation for Michael Jackson’s 50-date run to have started July 13 at O2 Arena in London. The promoter sold about $85 million in tickets for Jackson’s comeback stand against an expected profit of approximately 115 million.
AEG chief exec Randy Phillips has stated that AEG may break even or make a profit regardless of the failed concert series. They have offered Jackson ticket buyers the choice of a refund or to receive the actual concert tickets as souvenirs in lieu of the full refunds.
Insuring Jackson was not an easy task in itself. With Jackson’s history of canceling concerts, AEG reportedly had trouble finding suitable insurance. They were allegedly able to finally secure coverage for the first 23 million.
In order to get a better understanding of these issues I contacted one of the countries top producers of special events insurance.
James Chippendale is the President of CSI Insurance Group. They are the leading hospitality and entertainment insurance specialist in the country, placing coverage for some of the country’s top recording artists, live music venues, concert promoters, special events, nightclubs, bars and restaurants. This includes artists such as Ludacris, Busta Rhymes,Better Than Ezra, the Nation’s largest events such as Lollapalooza,Austin City Limits Music Festival and even President Obama’s Victory Party Inauguration.
What will be the primary liability and coverage issues with regards to the failed Michael Jackson concert series?
"Whether AEG had Key Man Insurance in place will be of prime importance. AEG’s insurance carrier is no doubt anxiously awaiting the results of the toxicology report from the autopsy. The "key man’ insurance policy should cover accidental death. On the other hand, recovery of insurance proceeds is often prohibited where intentional, willful acts are involved."
What is Key Man Insurance?
"Key man insurance is a sub-type of life insurance pout in place where one person’s skills and abilities can make an enormous financial difference"
Who Needs It?
"Key man insurance is meant to cover the company’s losses in the event of the death of a key employee or in the case of a concert the star performer or band member whose inability to perform would prevent the event from going forward."
What Is It?
"Key man insurance is generally a term life insurance policy, with the length term being the time until that employee retires. The company pays the premiums on the policy and receives the death benefits if the key performer, Jackson in this case, unexpectedly dies."
Will there be underwriting Issues?
"This again will ride on the results of the toxicology report. The Insurer or insurers will no doubt be closely scrutinizing the AEG application for insurance. They will be looking closely at all disclosed pre-existing medical conditions and drugs Jackson disclosed he was taking at the time of application."
If the AEG insurance carrier believes there could be reason to deny coverage, what steps will they take?
"The first thing they will do and what they have probably already done is to issue what is known as a Reservation of Rights to AEG."
What Is A Reservation Of Rights?
‘Reservation of Rights are common in the insurance industry. It is basically a letter that would be sent from the insurer to AEG putting them on notice that for a one or several reasons there may be no coverage for a particular claim under the insurance policy covering Jackson or other aspects of the concert."
We have heard a lot about AEG allegedly having coverage with "LLOYDS". Can you explain what Lloyds is and how it works as an insurer?
"A broker would place the risk with LLOYD’S. In the case of the Jackson concert I believe it was Robertson Taylor. The broker commission would be 20-25 percent"
"LLOYD’s is a network of syndicates ( individual companies ) they each take part of the risk. An example would be a company that needed 100,000,000 in coverage for a specialized risk that he could not obtain coverage for elsewhere."
"Company A may take on the "lead syndicate" at 60 percent of the risk or 60k. There could be dozens of companies below each taken on a small percentage of the risk."
Why do companies go to LLOYD’s and not standard carriers for such coverage?
"There are only about 5 insurers in the United States that write this type of coverage. No mainstream also know as "standard market" insurer would take this kind of risk. LLOYD’s is the market of global choice for high risk events such as this"
Who would have insisted on a personal doctor for Michael Jackson?
"Either the insurance carrier, AEG or both"

http://www.briancuban.com/when-concerts-fail/
 
and another interesting article I think... didn't see them posted before and will just keep insurance discussion in here...



Will Insurers Pay For Jackson’s Concerts?


Coverage details sketchy, but singer’s death will prompt event cancellation claim
Published 7/6/2009

The sudden death of Michael Jackson might trigger one of the biggest event cancellation claims in the insurance industry’s history, as speculation about coverage for 50 sold-out performances scheduled by the “King of Pop” at London’s O2 Arena ran rampant last week.


However, details remain sketchy, with few coming forward to say they have a piece of the potentially massive exposure.
ArtCaption_MichaelJackson.jpg
Sources within the industry have suggested that Robertson Taylor may be the lead broker on the risk. John Silcock, chief executive of the London-based firm, declined to comment on the matter.
Bart Nash, chief press officer for Lloyd’s of London, confirmed that some event cancellation coverage for the Jackson comeback concerts was placed in the Lloyd’s market, but he indicated that, upon an initial look, the amount is small.

Regarding the ultimate exposure for event promoter AEG Live, Mr. Nash said he had read that the total potential liability could reach £300 million—some $494 million at current exchange rates—although it is unclear how much of that was insured.
A representative from AEG Live declined to comment on its exposure, or to confirm even if it had adequate insurance in place. However, in a May article by Reuters, AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips said his organization was well insured for the events.
Published reports last week in the United Kingdom indicated that AEG might have only been able to secure coverage for the first 22 concerts, for a limit of £130 million ($214 million).
Mr. Nash said whatever coverage AEG Live had was no doubt spread out, including among some U.S. insurers, because insuring 50 shows for a volatile performer like Michael Jackson could be risky and expensive.
He added that refunding tickets—the O2 seats 20,000—is not the only exposure for the event. Wages for those who had event-related employment may have to be paid, and other expenses could cause further problems for the insurer or AEG Live, he noted.
Brian Kingman, managing director for Gallagher Entertainment, a division of Arthur J. Gallagher & Company, said coverage for Mr. Jackson’s shows may not have been too difficult to secure, as the market is fairly soft for nonappearance contingency risks. Mr. Kingman has previously served as a broker for Mr. Jackson as well as for Madonna on one of her tours.
In the case of Mr. Jackson’s tour, Mr. Kingman said he believes the risk was placed in London, and depending on how the policy was written will ultimately decide whether the loss is covered.
The health of the performer also comes into play, Mr. Kingman said. It is typical, he explained, for a sickness to be covered only if the performer undergoes a medical examination before a tour. In the May Reuters story, Mr. Phillips said Mr. Jackson passed a physical “with flying colors.”
However, any event cancellation claim by the promoter for Mr. Jackson’s planned London concerts could be complicated by medical questions surrounding his death, one legal expert said.
Randy Maniloff, a partner in the Commercial Litigation Department at White and Williams LLP in Philadelphia, commented that although promoter AEG Live said Mr. Jackson had passed a medical exam with “flying colors,” the methodology of that physical could be an issue when it comes to insurance coverage.
Mr. Maniloff said insurers could look into the results of the medical exam given that Mr. Jackson died relatively soon after passing it. “Given that his death seems inconsistent with the supposed results of the medical exam, it’s certainly an issue to look into,” he said.
The medical exam, Mr. Maniloff added, is as fair game as anything in the application process, and he noted that whenever there is a big loss in such a short period of time, fingers are always pointed and the process becomes complicated.
The extent of cancellation in this case—50 sold-out concert dates—is significant, Mr. Maniloff said, adding he thinks insurers should look into all areas of coverage. “It’s not a routine thing,” he said.
However, with respect to the medical exam, some key factors come into play.
First, Mr. Maniloff said insurers’ success in questioning the exam could depend on which party chose the doctor. If the insurers chose the doctor, he noted, that could be a factor in their ability to raise issues. If one carrier picked the doctor when there are multiple carriers on the risk, the other carriers may take issue with that, he added.
Additionally, Mr. Maniloff said standards are high to prove any kind of fraud or misrepresentation in the application process, although fraud and misrepresentation may not even be as much of an issue as the process of the exam itself.
One insurance professional who is heavily involved in securing event cancellation insurance coverage within the entertainment industry, who spoke on background, said medical exams for a short-term tour are generally not intense.
The performer, he said, usually discloses pre-existing conditions, and underwriters have discretion whether to cover or decline coverage for those pre-existing conditions.
If there is a pre-existing condition that the performer fails to disclose, and that leads to an event cancellation, insurers will not cover the loss, he added.
Insurers will likely look into how medical exam questions were answered to determine if there was any material misrepresentation, he noted.
While there is some speculation that prescription medication may have played a part in Mr. Jackson’s death, the insurance professional said event cancellation insurance coverage will likely depend on whether the use of such medication was disclosed, and whether insurers chose to accept or decline coverage for complications arising from the medication.

The sudden death of Michael Jackson might trigger one of the biggest event cancellation claims in the insurance industry’s history, as speculation about coverage for 50 sold-out performances scheduled by the “King of Pop” at London’s O2 Arena ran rampant last week. However, details remain sketchy, with few coming forward to say they have a piece of the potentially massive exposure.
ArtCaption_MichaelJackson.jpg
Sources within the industry have suggested that Robertson Taylor may be the lead broker on the risk. John Silcock, chief executive of the London-based firm, declined to comment on the matter.
Bart Nash, chief press officer for Lloyd’s of London, confirmed that some event cancellation coverage for the Jackson comeback concerts was placed in the Lloyd’s market, but he indicated that, upon an initial look, the amount is small.
Regarding the ultimate exposure for event promoter AEG Live, Mr. Nash said he had read that the total potential liability could reach £300 million—some $494 million at current exchange rates—although it is unclear how much of that was insured.
A representative from AEG Live declined to comment on its exposure, or to confirm even if it had adequate insurance in place. However, in a May article by Reuters, AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips said his organization was well insured for the events.
Published reports last week in the United Kingdom indicated that AEG might have only been able to secure coverage for the first 22 concerts, for a limit of £130 million ($214 million).
Mr. Nash said whatever coverage AEG Live had was no doubt spread out, including among some U.S. insurers, because insuring 50 shows for a volatile performer like Michael Jackson could be risky and expensive.
He added that refunding tickets—the O2 seats 20,000—is not the only exposure for the event. Wages for those who had event-related employment may have to be paid, and other expenses could cause further problems for the insurer or AEG Live, he noted.
Brian Kingman, managing director for Gallagher Entertainment, a division of Arthur J. Gallagher & Company, said coverage for Mr. Jackson’s shows may not have been too difficult to secure, as the market is fairly soft for nonappearance contingency risks. Mr. Kingman has previously served as a broker for Mr. Jackson as well as for Madonna on one of her tours.
In the case of Mr. Jackson’s tour, Mr. Kingman said he believes the risk was placed in London, and depending on how the policy was written will ultimately decide whether the loss is covered.
The health of the performer also comes into play, Mr. Kingman said. It is typical, he explained, for a sickness to be covered only if the performer undergoes a medical examination before a tour. In the May Reuters story, Mr. Phillips said Mr. Jackson passed a physical “with flying colors.”
However, any event cancellation claim by the promoter for Mr. Jackson’s planned London concerts could be complicated by medical questions surrounding his death, one legal expert said.
Randy Maniloff, a partner in the Commercial Litigation Department at White and Williams LLP in Philadelphia, commented that although promoter AEG Live said Mr. Jackson had passed a medical exam with “flying colors,” the methodology of that physical could be an issue when it comes to insurance coverage.
Mr. Maniloff said insurers could look into the results of the medical exam given that Mr. Jackson died relatively soon after passing it. “Given that his death seems inconsistent with the supposed results of the medical exam, it’s certainly an issue to look into,” he said.
The medical exam, Mr. Maniloff added, is as fair game as anything in the application process, and he noted that whenever there is a big loss in such a short period of time, fingers are always pointed and the process becomes complicated.
The extent of cancellation in this case—50 sold-out concert dates—is significant, Mr. Maniloff said, adding he thinks insurers should look into all areas of coverage. “It’s not a routine thing,” he said.
However, with respect to the medical exam, some key factors come into play.
First, Mr. Maniloff said insurers’ success in questioning the exam could depend on which party chose the doctor. If the insurers chose the doctor, he noted, that could be a factor in their ability to raise issues. If one carrier picked the doctor when there are multiple carriers on the risk, the other carriers may take issue with that, he added.
Additionally, Mr. Maniloff said standards are high to prove any kind of fraud or misrepresentation in the application process, although fraud and misrepresentation may not even be as much of an issue as the process of the exam itself.
One insurance professional who is heavily involved in securing event cancellation insurance coverage within the entertainment industry, who spoke on background, said medical exams for a short-term tour are generally not intense.
The performer, he said, usually discloses pre-existing conditions, and underwriters have discretion whether to cover or decline coverage for those pre-existing conditions.
If there is a pre-existing condition that the performer fails to disclose, and that leads to an event cancellation, insurers will not cover the loss, he added.
Insurers will likely look into how medical exam questions were answered to determine if there was any material misrepresentation, he noted.
While there is some speculation that prescription medication may have played a part in Mr. Jackson’s death, the insurance professional said event cancellation insurance coverage will likely depend on whether the use of such medication was disclosed, and whether insurers chose to accept or decline coverage for complications arising from the medication.

http://www.property-casualty.com/Is.../Will-Insurers-Pay-For-Jacksons-Concerts.aspx
 
This is all messed up Y'all. and for what? For Money. This Damn AEG is playin' a game with Michael's life, and now death. Its just sooo Disgusting to me even in death, they want to make money out of Michael. The insurance thing is just Effed up.

The site Michaeljacksonlive.com is selling shirts hats, mugs belts and the whole 9 yards. Now ppl. who want to believe that AEG is good, will take that as a good "Samaritans" work. But the truth is its not a tribute to Michael, every thing sold, and all the $$ Goes to those buttholes pockets. thats not even the end of it.

There's always something behind the scene things that happen when these things happen. and most of us don't know how the hell a person could be this evil to put Michael in this position, but God Knows the truth and he's gonna make each and everyone who was part of it Pay.

Thankyou Michael, for giving life to our world...

Love,
Romi
 
Last edited:
well I posted the articles more to answer (theoretically) the questions from the first post... especially this one...

Accidental or on purpose, if Propofol is determined to be cause of death, and negligent homicide/manslaughter is involved, how does the insurance policy stand on this. Is it then probable that AEG will NOT be receiving coverage in this event?

as you can read in the last part of the second article explicit it seems that insurances do cover overdose only for medication which usage is named in the physicals. Then the insurance ppl do sign these protocolls or they decline the coverage base on the physical records.
Now you can answer this all to yourself however you like...
1) The use of Propofol was named in the records of the physicals by Michael or his Doctor (whoever that might was?)???
2) If you really think it was named (sorry but lol) you think anyone from the insurance would have signed the coverage???

So to conclude bgz (to me) it looks very much an overdose by propofol (accidential or not) will cause AEG to NOT get coverage by any insurance. I personally am very sure about that.
 
Last edited:
yep. but again, if they had overdose insurance, which some claim they do, then it stands...was it overdose at his hands or in the hands of another.

the way it stands is that aeg will still make theirmoney back. they want the insurance money ANDthe money they're gonna make from tributes and merch
 
yep. but again, if they had overdose insurance, which some claim they do, then it stands...was it overdose at his hands or in the hands of another.

the way it stands is that aeg will still make theirmoney back. they want the insurance money ANDthe money they're gonna make from tributes and merch

nope you got that wrong. For the insurance coverage it doesn't even matter to much how it came into his system.
As the second article the insurance guy explains... an overdose clause in an insurance happens to be valid only for medications used by the client and which usage is taken on the records of the physicals. If you overdose these medications only then you're covered.
You're not covered for any medication which is not on record of the physicals...
...USUALLY.

As Propofol is a medication not for usage outside of operation or ICU settings and should be given only as narcotica in a highly and strictly monitored setting with extra qualified anesthesics around... you think either a doctor (maybe the Murray doctor but any doctor) or even Michael would have given that on record? I don't think so.

And even if it would be on record... do you think ppl from the insurance would have signed?


I would say I'll eat a broomstick if the insurance will have to pay when it's propofol... but maybe someone slept and signed to sh** up the chatter box R.P. at least they also had to pay a very high price to get insurance at all... it's just hard to imagine... cuz Michael was considered high risk by insurances... if you follow articles in their field around March and April... R.P. had a hard time to find insurance at all for more than the first 10 concerts (there's heaps of insurance bloggers joking about him around March, April, May on the net)... I even have my doubts the 17.5 number he's mentioning is correct... confirmed coverage by insurance yet is only 3... (unless someone has found more than me ;) ) There's also a rumour out there that AEG did self coverage for the rest (also stated as a possibility by R.P. in the media in April and May... I'm not familiar with how that would work but then there can't be really a profit for them I think).

But well there's also the pretty low likelihood someone did sign a physical protocoll with propofol there at some belonging to Lloyds insurance and it would be covered... then the fight of cuz would be... Murray involved, being on AEGs payroll and I guess again the insurance would go to court and would NOT pay even though... telling AEG can sue the insurance of Murray... in case he has coverage.

The likelihood AEG will get money from the insurances of the Lloyds group is going to zero when either Propofol is the reason and/or Dr. Murray being on their payroll is coming out... and we do know that's the result almost sure by now.
 
Last edited:
not IF the doctor who administered the drug was the same one who did the physical and not if he was being paid by aeg. it's a conflict of interest.

the physical wouldn't be valid b/c he's being paid by the folks who willemploy him in the future IF the physical goes ok.

it's a conflict. that's my whole issue.....everything is linked. if mj didn't pass, murray wouldbe out of a job and wouldn't be paid b y aeg. he passed and had a job.
 
not IF the doctor who administered the drug was the same one who did the physical and not if he was being paid by aeg. it's a conflict of interest.
yeah but if the insurance knew and still signed then they did agree with the whole arraingement and accepted a doctor on AEGs payroll, maybe it was even them insisting on A doctor to be around Michael Jackson... and somehow there is pretty sure some coverage, even for 3m only confirmed yet.

I guess the insurance was somehow tricked into this.

It's hard for me to believe the Lloyds syn. didn't check out the doctor doing the physicals for a known 'high risk' client.

Also I can't imagine Lloyds paying coverage for Michaels death to AEG if someone on AEGs payroll caused it (intentionally or not).

But the question is what was told (and is on record) to the insurance before they signed the coverage.
 
well that will all come out in due time. if they were misrepresenting facts, they won't get the policy. hell, if mj didn't even take the physical, say it was someone else, then they're even mor ein trouble
 
Back
Top