July 29, 2009 experts opinion on Propofol

sunnyday81

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Thought this was an interesting read...


What the Heck is Propofol? More Info On the Drug That May Have Killed Michael Jackson

Newsweek
by Kate Dailey and Rebecca Shabad


The King of Pop’s death has been under investigation for more than a month, and definite answers have yet to emerge. While the final toxicology report is expected to be released next week, propofol—brand name Diprivan—is being named as a potential culprit in Michael Jackson’s death. Detectives found a large quantity of it in his home, and his personal physician allegedly admitted administering the drug to Jackson on the day the singer passed away at age 50. While celebrity deaths by drug overdose are nothing new, the usual culprits are familiar names like cocaine, morphine, and heroin. So what is propofol, exactly?

“Propofol is a medication that was invented 20 to 25 years ago for anesthesia. It’s what we call a sedative hypnotic. It puts you to sleep; it makes you forget things,” says Dr. David Kloth, past president of American Society of Interventionism Pain Physicians and current president of Connecticut Pain Society. It's used in the emergency room and during surgery for sedation. The drug is an ideal for anesthesia because it works quickly and leaves very little lingering effects when used correctly. “It comes on very quickly; it also wears off very quickly. If someone’s on a continuous drip, and you turn it off, in five or 10 minutes, they’re wide awake,” says Kloth.

Jackson, who reportedly suffered from debilitating insomnia, may have been seeking a little shut eye with the aid of this drug. What makes his death more tragic is that propofol wouldn’t have helped his exhaustion. “It does not cause stage 4 REM sleep,” Kloth says. “Michael Jackson was unfortunately either misinformed or misunderstood ... He would actually wake unrested, because the brain did not enter the appropriate stage of sleep.”

The fact that the drug was administered outside a hospital or health-care facility is “mind-boggling,” says Dr. Kenneth Elmassian, a cardiac anesthesiologist at Michigan Regional Medical Center. “You can’t go to a pharmacist, hand a prescription over and get the drug,” he says. At the same time, he adds that any licensed physician can give the medication—though the American Society of Anesthesiologists (of which he is a board member), doesn’t recommend that doctors not trained in anesthesiology do so, because the drug is extremely dangerous.

Part of what makes the drug so dangerous is it’s extreme variability. “There are certain prescribeable doses, but the reality is what a certain dose for one person may not be the certain dose that’s going to be safe for another person,” says Elmassian. A number of factors─including age, weight, hydration─factor into the efficacy of the drug, and too much can lead to a drop in blood pressure and trouble breathing. Enough can be fatal.
Propofol is also extremely addictive. “It actually lights up in the addiction center in the same place that alcohol and morphine and even nicotine [do],” says Kloth. However, he adds that the benefit to addicts are few. “People abuse drugs to get high on them, [but] you don’t even enjoy the high. You wake up and say, ‘Oh, shoot I missed it.' ”

When administered properly and infrequently, the drug’s risks decrease. “Having it one time for surgery is not going to get anybody addicted,” says Kloth. “Once you wake up in the recovery room, it’s gone. It has no bearing on your respiratory depression. If given properly, this drug is extraordinarily safe—it’s one of the safest drugs we have.”

Not, however, for Jackson. “My prediction is that Michael Jackson will be deemed a polysubstance overdose,” says Kloth. “It is probably possible and probably likely that he took other medications that evening.”
The consequences for the doctor who provided Jackson with the drug are dire. According to The Associated Press, Dr. Conrad Murray allegedly admitted to police that he set Jackson up with the IV, and Kloth thinks charges of manslaughter are not inappropriate if it turns out Jackson was improperly supervised while on profonol.
"You have given him the bullet, which he shot himself with," Kloth says. "You gave him the loaded gun and said: pull the trigger.”


http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/theh...rug-that-may-have-killed-michael-jackson.aspx
 
Re: Medical experts opinion on Propofol

According to this doctor, propopol is NOT addictive. So all these media folks who are saying that Michael was addicted to it are wrong.

And I heard another doctor say that if he was given propopol, the autopsy would be able to find it in his urine. So it is also not true that they won't be able to prove whether he was administered it or not.

I still want to know what those oxygen tanks were for since Diprivan would be administered by a drip. Why was Michael on oxygen? Anyone got any theories on that?
 
not addicted in the physical sense but mentally he sought it?

Also says it wouldnt rest him but im guessing it did in the way that a sleeping pill would- send you off to the first stage of sleep so that u have the chance of reaching stage 4 REM naturally. MJ obviously would not have used it over and over if it did ABSOLUTELY nothing.
 
he was addicted to the idea of a restful or at least peaceful night of 'sleep'.

I think that is correct. It was a psychological addiction.

I'm also an insomniac. I probably have it much worse than Michael used to have it. I've been like that since I was a baby and the idea of using something to get some sleep has been an addiction in the past. Today, I'd rather skip sleep (it happens quite often) and be a zombie all day rather than use anything.
 
this thread deserves more hits since these are actual experts on newsweek instead of all the overnight MDs posting around.

thanks for enlightening.
 
Actually the doc in this article says it IS extremely addictive...just in a different way than drugs you get a 'high' from. I wonder if your body still gets that high, but you don't realize it, because you are asleep? Very interesting article.
 
sleep is very important, so anyone would do anything to get some rest...but administer this drug at home is sooooooooo stupid!
 
on that CNN thing.. the patient instantly stops breathing.. so someone has to be with them at all times to get him to breathe

i dont understand... so ALL NIGHT if MJ had propofol, someone had to be by his side feeding the air in so hes artificially breathing? does it always utomatically stop you breathing
 
Jackson, who reportedly suffered from debilitating insomnia, may have been seeking a little shut eye with the aid of this drug. What makes his death more tragic is that propofol wouldn’t have helped his exhaustion.“It does not cause stage 4 REM sleep,” Kloth says. “Michael Jackson was unfortunately either misinformed or misunderstood ... He would actually wake unrested, because the brain did not enter the appropriate stage of sleep.”

But the REM stage is when most of the dreaming takes place. Could it be he was having horrible nightmares and this was part of the appeal?
 
I would say Michael was 'dependant' on this drug rather than addicted to it. Dependant on it to get some much needed sleep. However as it was so dangerous, this depanance was a game of Russian Roulette
 
Re: Medical experts opinion on Propofol

According to this doctor, propopol is NOT addictive. So all these media folks who are saying that Michael was addicted to it are wrong.

And I heard another doctor say that if he was given propopol, the autopsy would be able to find it in his urine. So it is also not true that they won't be able to prove whether he was administered it or not.

I still want to know what those oxygen tanks were for since Diprivan would be administered by a drip. Why was Michael on oxygen? Anyone got any theories on that?

The oxygen tanks were there to feed Michael oxygen because while under Propofol, you do not breath on your own. See this video: http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=14804918&ch=4226722&src=news

Isn't it basic knowledge about Propofol that it does not give the body rest? Surely Conrad Murray would have known this.

Why did Michael constantly trust people when he knew he was always being manipulated and mislead? Why did he trust these sharks with his LIFE?!
 
Re: Medical experts opinion on Propofol

The oxygen tanks were there to feed Michael oxygen because while under Propofol, you do not breath on your own. See this video: http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=14804918&ch=4226722&src=news

Isn't it basic knowledge about Propofol that it does not give the body rest? Surely Conrad Murray would have known this.

Why did Michael constantly trust people when he knew he was always being manipulated and mislead? Why did he trust these sharks with his LIFE?!

that's the scary thing. he was totally handing his life over each time. i don't know how he did it while touring. whomever was the first doctor who helped him do this outside of a hospital is the criminal.
 
Re: Medical experts opinion on Propofol

According to this doctor, propopol is NOT addictive. So all these media folks who are saying that Michael was addicted to it are wrong.

And I heard another doctor say that if he was given propopol, the autopsy would be able to find it in his urine. So it is also not true that they won't be able to prove whether he was administered it or not.

I still want to know what those oxygen tanks were for since Diprivan would be administered by a drip. Why was Michael on oxygen? Anyone got any theories on that?
But is that really true then. I they really found oxygen tanks wouldn´t someone have taken pictures of it.
 
Re: Medical experts opinion on Propofol

that's the scary thing. he was totally handing his life over each time. i don't know how he did it while touring. whomever was the first doctor who helped him do this outside of a hospital is the criminal.

Yes, and it seems from numerous reports lately that everyone surrounding Michael was controlling him. It makes me so mad. I wish I could have been there to fight for him.

But I sort of don't understand how Michael could be so naive and ignorant to it. Or was he simple totally unable know and hire people who weren't sharks, or to cope without them?
 
That interview about that drug is really scary....starting to make sense though. If it stopped him breathing and the doctor missed that then....I dread to think. I guess though if he died this way there would have been no suffering at all. I take comfort in that at least.
 
Given the need for artificial ventilation with this anesthetic and given how complicated anesthesiology is, it seems more and more obvious (as I said in some thread a few days ago) that it was a set-up for disaster to have one person responsible for this - even a very responsible, skilled, attentive person, which it seems apparent Dr Murray was not. In hospitals, people work in teams, there is back up, there are monitors ... for all sorts of reasons. Quality control measures to avoid the risks of human error. This anesthetic is sometimes used for OP surgery, yes, but that would be for a short period - I can't imagine in what circumstances propofol would be used to keep someone under for hours. No back-up, no other person double-checking, no alarms going off. This seems like sheer lunacy.
 
I can't imagine in what circumstances propofol would be used to keep someone under for hours. No back-up, no other person double-checking, no alarms going off. This seems like sheer lunacy.

:no:

maybe we should count ourselves lucky he lived to 50 if he was using this during the HIStory tour (as has been reported)
 
OK people need to watch this if they haven't because it's totally nuts that he was doing it at home and that he didn't have a heart rate monitor or an actual anesthesiologist or more than one person or or.. i can't even..

watch how propofol is administered in a hospital setting: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/health/2009/07/29/gupta.propofol.demo.cnn?iref=videosearch

That is actually quite upsetting. I dont know what equipment Michael has in his home, but I cant imagine he would have all of that around with the kids there also. I really think this doctor misinformed michael about the benefits of this and also did not understand how to use it himself. Michael stopped breathing, the doctor maybe didnt even realise that, and then due to lack of oxygen in the blood he went in to cardiac arrest. By then it was all too late.

Makes me sick just thinking about it. Michael was not meant to die so young, so soon. All a terrible, awful situation that was so avoidable.
 
I think that is correct. It was a psychological addiction.

I'm also an insomniac. I probably have it much worse than Michael used to have it. I've been like that since I was a baby and the idea of using something to get some sleep has been an addiction in the past. Today, I'd rather skip sleep (it happens quite often) and be a zombie all day rather than use anything.

Know the feeling my doctor gave me Zopiclone the other day, I took one the first night and did sleep but I just don't want to rely on meds to sleep although I feel like a zombie(and I don't have to dance lots in the day, be a parent to 3 or have 50 concert dates looming over me) I've always been a nightowl but the last month or two I've been getting very little(1-2 hours) or no sleep and if do manage to sleep in the daytime it doesn't seem to restore me like night time sleep. I don't blame Michael for wanting the insomnia to end but I wish that course of action hadn't been taken. Who first introduced him to that way of dealing with it...?
 
I don't know much about insomnia but this is keeping me awake at night:

Jackson, who reportedly suffered from debilitating insomnia, may have been seeking a little shut eye with the aid of this drug. What makes his death more tragic is that propofol wouldn’t have helped his exhaustion. “It does not cause stage 4 REM sleep,” Kloth says. “Michael Jackson was unfortunately either misinformed or misunderstood ... He would actually wake unrested, because the brain did not enter the appropriate stage of sleep.”

So there wasn't even any point to MJ taking this risky drug, he would have had no relief. Thanks Dr Murray, you did such a great job! :(
 
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