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michael had no pulse or heart beat

xthunderx2

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when the paramedics got their they said he was flat lined according to HLN and a source who spoke to a paramedic on the scene. Murray would not let them declare him dead there at the home. I believe that is because he knew he was guilty of killing him
 
I saw the HLN report. The chef's account for that morning has raised red flags for a lot of people. Jim Morey was on point about the timeline now being more about what happened from 9am til noon instead of what happened 30 minutes before 911 was called. And they brought up the fact about the women in Texas moving documents and how that could play in all this if it turns out MJ was dead earlier. Jim Morey said that would make things "murkier". You bet your sweet arse it will. Fans have been one step ahead all the while. We just needed the info to start coming out to confirm or rule out our suspicions. In all honesty, I wish Michael's death wasn't such a shady circumstance but it's good to see peeps in the media catching on and starting to use their heads. They are starting to question things and the doctor's account for things.
 
wendy2004 said:
I saw the HLN report. The chef's account for that morning has raised red flags for a lot of people. Jim Morey was on point about the timeline now being more about what happened from 9am til noon instead of what happened 30 minutes before 911 was called. And they brought up the fact about the women in Texas moving documents and how that could play in all this if it turns out MJ was dead earlier. Jim Morey said that would make things "murkier". You bet your sweet arse it will. Fans have been one step ahead all the while. We just needed the info to start coming out to confirm or rule out our suspicions. In all honesty, I wish Michael's death wasn't such a shady circumstance but it's good to see peeps in the media catching on and starting to use their heads. They are starting to question things and the doctor's account for things.
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I agree it is sad that Michael's death has to be so shady. And you are right us fans have always been a step or two ahead of the investigation. Who knows maybe they have been reading our forum for tips on how things may have happened and in what order. If this is the case then they should keep reading because alot of folks on this forum have posted some great assumptions.
 
I saw that to and I believe that the chef is telling one of the most truthful versions of what happened that morning. Joe said that Michael never woke up that morning, he died in his sleep instead of collapsing which is what was reported earlier. I think the DR was not paying attention either sleeping or as they are saying on ET was he drinking the night before(that is tomorrow).. Either way, the DR is repsonsible for MJ's death because as a DR he knows that propofol is not legally used in the home.

They also said on HLN that many at the staples center did not like him because he was overbearing and made it known that he was personnally involved in Michael's life as his DR. I want to know what happened. If he was giving the drug at night for a while which is what they say had been going on, then why did he get so careless. If you are breaking the law arent you going to be extra careful as to not get caught?

Does anyone know what happened to the rumor of the fresh needle marks on the neck?
 
longtimefan1968 said:
I saw that to and I believe that the chef is telling one of the most truthful versions of what happened that morning. Joe said that Michael never woke up that morning, he died in his sleep instead of collapsing which is what was reported earlier. I think the DR was not paying attention either sleeping or as they are saying on ET was he drinking the night before(that is tomorrow).. Either way, the DR is repsonsible for MJ's death because as a DR he knows that propofol is not legally used in the home.

They also said on HLN that many at the staples center did not like him because he was overbearing and made it known that he was personnally involved in Michael's life as his DR. I want to know what happened. If he was giving the drug at night for a while which is what they say had been going on, then why did he get so careless. If you are breaking the law arent you going to be extra careful as to not get caught?

Does anyone know what happened to the rumor of the fresh needle marks on the neck?
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The only thing I've heard about the fresh needle marks in the neck is someone speculated that the propofol may have been administered thru a vein in Michael's neck if the veins in his arms weren't doing the trick. Not sure if all the marks were "fresh" as in from that day or fresh in the sense of being "recent" but from maybe the day before.

Interesting about the doctor possibly drinking the night before. Oh boy.

The thing about that morning is we just can't be sure if Michael never woke up or whether he did wake up and something went horribly wrong and then he collapsed. What if it's a combo of both stories that have come out? Sometimes the full truth is a combo of half-truths floating around.

For example: Let's say the doctor fell asleep or left the room and missed when Michael's breathing became critical, but when he woke up or came back to the room he was able to get Michael conscious for a bit. However, when Michael tried to get out the bed, he collapsed on the floor or back onto his bed with the doctor right there. This could explain why the doctor never left the room. Michael may have been in distress from the get-go and the doctor never had a chance to go downstairs to take the tanks out and pick up breakfast. He may have been up there panicking and trying to either resusitate Michael, letting him die, and/or covering up (calling his peeps in Texas)...for 3 whole hours.

Basically, without videocamera evidence, we will never know what exactly happened in that room. Not sure we can trust diddly that comes out of Murray's mouth. If he overslept becuz he was intoxicated, that's negligent, too.
 
How did this man become a doctor? He must have cheated his way coz his actions are completely opposite of a the decent comments made about him. He always had a dark, dark side that is now coming to light.
 
wendy2004 said:
Basically, without videocamera evidence, we will never know what exactly happened in that room. Not sure we can trust diddly that comes out of Murray's mouth. If he overslept becuz he was intoxicated, that's negligent, too.
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It's true that without video evidence or eyewitness testimony, Murray may be the only one who ever knows what really happened. The autopsy may help pin down the time of death, which is important.

If only the house had been secured immediately.

Oh, forget that ... if we're in the realm of "if only" ...

But ... not having a time machine or a window to one of the the parallel universes where Michael survived, I can only pray that he didn't suffer and that justice is served.
 
xthunderx2 said:
when the paramedics got their they said he was flat lined according to HLN and a source who spoke to a paramedic on the scene. Murray would not let them declare him dead there at the home. I believe that is because he knew he was guilty of killing him
Click to expand...

That's why I have been saying that I believe Michael was already dead when he was took to the hospital. His brain could be living yet, but as he had no pulse or heart beat and also was not breathing surely for long minutes, I can't believe he still could have had chances to survive or that even was still with life. The doctors at the ambulance/hospital probabilly perceived he had no chances any more but, as usual, kept doing their work and tried to save his life in all ways - it was MJ, not a common person.

And what is disturbing me even more is: if Murray was trying to ressucitate him but had not success, wtf didn't he put Michael in a car and rushed to the hospital himself??!!! But no... he preferred to try, try and try to solve the situation with his own hands and, in the meanwhile, Michael's life was going away with no chances of return. When someone have a heart arrest, each minute means less chances of life SERIOUSLY, so you must RUN as fast as you can to save him!

Something is not right here for sure. Mistakes were made.
 
I read that the Dr was also keeping his patients in TX, and flying back and forth...He was probably exhausted and fell asleep!!,,,what an idiot, he should not have been so overworked!!!, When he signed on with Michael that should have been his only priority. And if he was tired he should have had a nurse standing by to watch Michael just in case...Sounds like he had a huge ego and thought he could handle it all, and make as much money as possible. what a moron!~!!!!
 
wendy2004 said:
The only thing I've heard about the fresh needle marks in the neck is someone speculated that the propofol may have been administered thru a vein in Michael's neck if the veins in his arms weren't doing the trick. Not sure if all the marks were "fresh" as in from that day or fresh in the sense of being "recent" but from maybe the day before.

Interesting about the doctor possibly drinking the night before. Oh boy.

The thing about that morning is we just can't be sure if Michael never woke up or whether he did wake up and something went horribly wrong and then he collapsed. What if it's a combo of both stories that have come out? Sometimes the full truth is a combo of half-truths floating around.

For example: Let's say the doctor fell asleep or left the room and missed when Michael's breathing became critical, but when he woke up or came back to the room he was able to get Michael conscious for a bit. However, when Michael tried to get out the bed, he collapsed on the floor or back onto his bed with the doctor right there. This could explain why the doctor never left the room. Michael may have been in distress from the get-go and the doctor never had a chance to go downstairs to take the tanks out and pick up breakfast. He may have been up there panicking and trying to either resusitate Michael, letting him die, and/or covering up (calling his peeps in Texas)...for 3 whole hours.

Basically, without videocamera evidence, we will never know what exactly happened in that room. Not sure we can trust diddly that comes out of Murray's mouth. If he overslept becuz he was intoxicated, that's negligent, too.
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Oh Wendy, if I follow your explanation, that means that the doc seeing his patient collapse chose to try to ressuscitate himself instead of calling fo help (EMTs). What a tragedy!
 
Daniele said:
That's why I have been saying that I believe Michael was already dead when he was took to the hospital. His brain could be living yet, but as he had no pulse or heart beat and also was not breathing surely for long minutes, I can't believe he still could have had chances to survive or that even was still with life. The doctors at the ambulance/hospital probabilly perceived he had no chances any more but, as usual, kept doing their work and tried to save his life in all ways - it was MJ, not a common person.

And what is disturbing me even more is: if Murray was trying to ressucitate him but had not success, wtf didn't he put Michael in a car and rushed to the hospital himself??!!! But no... he preferred to try, try and try to solve the situation with his own hands and, in the meanwhile, Michael's life was going away with no chances of return. When someone have a heart arrest, each minute means less chances of life SERIOUSLY, so you must RUN as fast as you can to save him!

Something is not right here for sure. Mistakes were made.
Click to expand...

Well actually from the reports that have been put out over the past 5 weeks are such that Murray wouldnt let the paramedics pronounce Michael dead at the house. He insisted that they take him to the hospital and before they even got him in the ambulance reports are that they worked on him for 45 minutes at home and then another hour at the hospital. Michael was gone long before all this, Murray just didnt want to be the one to put his name of the death certificate because he knew that he did something wrong. And not only that but by Michael going to the hospital it gave Murray time to tie up all the lose end and also lawyer up. If you didnt think you commit ed a crime why would you need a lawyer from the get go.
 
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