I need some help with something

I've already convinced this person to not always take everything from the tabloids for fact. I told him to look further, and do research yourself. Basically, i made a huge hater and non-believer of his innnocence into
someone who really starts to see the big picture and starts to believe in him. Which is of course very good...however, there are a few things i need some help with.

This person still firmly believes Michael never wanted to be black, and thus bleached his skin. EVEN though he acknowledges the fact that he had vitiligo...this is basically his message. If ya'll could read it...and maybe help me out , i would apreciate it...cause i love to let people like this see how wrong they are.

The quote you see is from me...that's my username on another forum.



Because I believe in science. And I'm black. And to see half the world considering the possibility that a black man with the genes of a DARK skinned man can have several caucasian kids WHILE ALSO suffering from a skin disorder that acted in a very rare way and made him white WHILE having only a few plastic surgeries and somehow just being "stricken" to resemble ET........ it really disgusts me.

Why can't we still be grown ups about this? I like Mike. I understand he was oppressed. I understand he was abused, misunderstood, maybe even had his growth retarded. I understand he did have vitiligo. I understand that he probably never molested kids. I think the man was magical. I don't have any hate for him.

But I also understand he was crazy. Bat shit crazy. Yes, he had vitiligo (I watched the vids, but you've already shown me those), but nowhere do I see ANY proof that he had huge patches of dark and light skin. The video simply doesn't have such an image EXCEPT where he was bitten by the spider and that patch of skin around the bite developed strong pigmentation. Other than around the spider bite, there is simply no evidence I've seen anywhere that he had both dark and light patches on his body simultaneously. He's described as "very open" about it and "willing to show anyone", so WHY is there no photographic record of michael both dark AND light like that newscaster, that girl, or MOST other vitiligo sufferers?? If you had your dark skin developing sudden near-white patches, wouldn't you photograph it? If you were being treated by a world renowned doctor, wouldn't you have pics he took to document your change??

Why would Mike be the only sufferer to have NO journal of their transformation and NO photographic evidence of him as dark as off the wall with light spots, or as light as bad with off-the-wall coloured dark spots?? The only evidence is of LIGHT vitiligo that discoloured his skin slightly, making lighter patches on his ALREADY LIGHT skin. I have not seen any pic of him with his natural dark skin mixed with his white skin.

Why don't these pics exist? Because it never happened. If they can produce these pics of ALL TYPES of people, all except Mike, it's cos mike didn't suffer the same thing. Sure he had vitiligo, I can see that.

I DO NOT SEE ANY EVIDENCE THAT VITILIGO AFFECTED HIS DECISION TO BLEACH.

I see his doctor and his makeup artists saying that on one hand, paid employees. On the other hand, I see his sister, brother and friend Quincy Jones (NOT paid by him) asking him what the fuck is wrong with him, why he wants to be white. If the word of his contractually bound employees is all he has to offer as proof, I'm not buying it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I accept fully that Mike had a light case of vitiligo, maybe all over his body, but NOT producing starkly contrasted patches like in the worst cases pictured in this thread.

I can only believe Mike bleached for the same reason he only dated white women, posed up a fake white family, cut his face to look more white, etc..

Without any other evidence, I just have to say what it looks like. It doesn't look like vitiligo had the slightest thing to do with his bleaching. If it did, and he was that open, and it really travelled through his father's side of the family, I doubt his sister and brother would be ragging him for bleaching. I doubt his friend Quincy would either. You guys can dismiss these shocking claims because you don't like them, but I can't. I have to weigh who has what to gain and why would they say what they say. Neither his bro, sis, or Quincy had a damn thing to gain by saying something so hurtful. His doc and makeup artists got to keep their jobs and NOT be sued viciously. I think his doctor and other employees have so many contracts signed with him that if they said anything to contradict his official story of his stage persona, they could be held liable for breach, so they just stick with the story. His motivation was to perpetuate a positive image of his crazy negative actions.

And those kids aren't his any more than that nose is. Genetics still mean something in my mind, and no celebrity dying is going to invalidate scientific understanding.
-----------


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigkabuto2004
I really don't care much...at the end of the day, he was their real father to them and vice versa. The fucking media didn't care about this when the man was alive, but now he's gone...it's relevant all the sudden...sigh.
It depends on what you call coincedences...i wouldn't call these...
-Abusive father during childhood
-While performing, he fell..broke his,surgery was needed
-Hair catching fire
-Vitiligo
-Lupus
Bad luck...to say the least...not coincedences.

----------------------------------------------------

No, I was talking about:

- Just happened to have the most extreme form of vitiligo possible on earth
- Just also happened to have NO PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE of it, despite all the years of treatment (unbelievable)
- Just happened to only love white women even though "it don't matter if you're black or white"
- Just happened to only concoct (make up, devise) white kids even though "it don't matter if you're black or white"
- OR, as some tell it:
- Just happened to be that genetic anomaly that would have a series of white kids without any trace of blackness IN THE SAME PERSON as the most extreme form of vitiligo without any evidence! C'mon.... don't you see the pigs flying??
- Just happened to have brothers and sisters who would spread vicious rumours that his vitiligo treatment was really a desire to be white EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW it came through their father!
- Just happened to have good friends who said the same thing, for no reason other than they didn't sympathize with his sickness??

Nah, I'm not buying it. Not a bit. I need evidence for a story that far fetched.....

If anyone can show me pics of Mike with DARK and light spots like the many people pictured in those videos, in this thread, and that I've seen in life, then I'll BEGIN considering it. Don't show the pic of the spider bite. That's not proof of vitiligo, it's proof of a spider bite!

But WITHOUT such evidence, this is all just wishful thinking and mythologizing a dead cultural icon. It's also pathetic.

The man was magical enough without us making his genes magical too.

Peace

Wow... that is a definitly someone who still believes in what the tabloids say... shocking tbh! Just look on youtube there are loads of pictures etc which show he had vitiligo.

Thing is..he DOES believe he has vitiligo...but also that he bleached his skin...........i need some proof, like he says..that shows the big blotches or whatever.

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:

Thing is..he DOES believe he has vitiligo...but also that he bleached his skin...........i need some proof, like he says..that shows the big blotches or whatever.

Click to expand...

To be honest I think he DID used some kind of bleaching agent, but not to BLEACH his skin but to make the uneven discolouration more uniform. There were some tubes of such creams found among his personal items. He didn't have a choice.

Quick question, is that YOU who calls Michael "bat shit crazy" or is that the person you're talking to? Because I think that is way out of line.

I have photos showing Michael's vitiligo clearly. PM me.

can't get the picture to work.

try this.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30166028&l=7f10a8764f&id=1333579991

and this

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30166030&l=376559a45d&id=1333579991

Thrilled said:

Quick question, is that YOU who calls Michael "bat shit crazy" or is that the person you're talking to? Because I think that is way out of line.

Click to expand...

Noooooooo, that's not me. That's the person on that forum. This is the person that first believed all the bullshit, and i showed him that there was zero evidence of any wrongdoing on MJ's side....however, he still talks very negative about MJ...but things like Bat shit crazy...really..just ignore that.

He also said he lied repeatedly about things...when i asked what the hell he meant he said this..


Well, he said he was Peter Pan

He insisted he only had two plastic surgeries - which is a HUGE lie and shows how FAR from reality he sits. He looks at himself in the mirror and sees someone who could pass for having only two nosejobs!! That's HUUUUUGE when considering his version of reality. It's not a little fib. He maintained that lie REPEATEDLY for his WHOLE ADULT LIFE! That's HUUUGE.

He said his kids are his

He said it doesn't matter if you're black and white

He said he had sex with women

Man, I'm not sure if anything he said was even partly true, or if it all came from the same place that INSISTED to Oprah that he WAS Peter Pan. She said, you like to imagine yourself as Peter Pan and he was getting annoyed, almost persecuted INSISTING he WAS Peter Pan.

I ask you, is this a man who's word can be relied on???

Think about it. He's in his own fantasy la la land, making up self images as they pop into his mind. Of course in his world he's innocent, proud to be black, etc.

But in real life he's troubled.

Peace

I replied with this

I think you are reading too much into the Peter Pan stuff...he of course knew he wasn't peter pan....i suggest you try to read some articles by him, some poems and pieces he wrote. In his book Dancing the dream for example there are several pieces by him..and it's pretty damn obvious that he was well aware of everything around him in the world...not seeing himself as a peter pan.

During the Bashir doc he said 'In my heart i am Peter Pan' and i'm pretty sure he simply meant he's a boy (even though he's an adult) that simply doesn't want to grow up. Wants to see the wonder in everything..etc...

But when you read that book , you see that he wasn't stupid..and that he definitely knew how fucked up the world was getting. I personally do not care if his kids are or aren't really his...i never did, but now that he's dead..it seems important all of the sudden. Of course he wasn't 100% normal, who is , really? But think about it...imagine yourself in his shoes ...imagine you growing up like that, while your 5 years old, already performing for people..etc...the rest you know all too well...we all do.

ask him to show you scientific proof that you can bleach your skin that white. Only mother nature is cruel enough to have that power my friend.

To be honest, I'm wondering if the person you're talking about actually likes not liking Michael.

How can one say, it's a lie to say one is Peter Pan? Since Peter Pan is a fictional figure in a Disney movie, it should be clear without asking that Michael didn't mean to be Peter Pan physically.

Why should Michael justify his plastic surgery to the public or the media? It's private. If the media don't accept this, they have to accept that one might not tell the truth to protect his privacy this way.

Who says that his kids are not his? And whose business is that, except of his own and that of his children? Another private thing Michael didn't have to justify to the public.

What's wrong in saying it doesn't matter if you're black or white? The meaning of that sentence is obvious, if one insists to not understand it, one can't be that intelligent.

How can that person declare it as a lie that Michael had sex with woman? There can't be evidence that he had not, can there?

Besides it's always interesting to see how people are able to make a telediagnosis of someone they only read tabloid stories about...

Besides, yesterday I saw a person who suffers from vitiligo. If you've ever seen this in real life, then it appears to be even more ridiculous to say someone pretends to have this skin disorder and actually uses bleaching cremes to change from black to white. And since Michaels skin was "whiter" than the skin of an European, what would be the sense in that? If he wanted to be a white man, why use a bleaching cream that makes you look whiter than a white man?
If you ever see a person who suffers from vitiligo, you clearly see that it's whiter than the colour of an European.

Im actually trying to make a video showing him with Vitaligo, and proving he only had 2 nose jobs and a clef put in his chin, here are some pics in the that clearly shows MJ had vitaligo in the OFF The Wall era:









Jackie xxx

Also take a look at this comparision:



Notice how the features do not change size or shape, show these to your friend or whoever they are and tell me what they say

Thanks, Jackie xxxx

I just found this on Wikipedia:

Public figures with vitiligo


Michael Jackson two years after he was diagnosed with vitiligo universalis, pictured in the early stages of the disease. [14]

• Michael Jackson was diagnosed in 1986 with vitiligo and lupus; the latter was potentially lethal but was in remission in Jackson's case.[15] In a 90-minute interview with Oprah Winfrey in February 1993, Jackson dismissed suggestions that he bleached his skin, admitting for the first time that he had the illness. The admission went on to promote awareness of vitiligo, a relatively unknown condition before then.[16][17][18][19] After his death, a friend claimed he started wearing his signature sequin glove to cover the vitiligo that had begun to appear.[20]

Credit due to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo

also found this:

http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/08/30/michael-jacksons-vitiligo-discussion-6/

:thumbs_up: That's a great blog! There are a number of blogs in the blog roll, which I will like to look at later. :bookmarks: You are doing a great job jackie11!

This is a great quest you're on too SB! :hi: If the guy still insists that there's no pictorial proof of Michael having vitiligo and/or other stuff, then he is just decided not to believe. There's quite enough proof of it if one's willing to see it.

These two quotes below... I find it amusing in a sad kind of way that the guy would think they are lies. Why exactly? The guy seems to take certain things too seriously or literally. where's the proof?

"...that INSISTED to Oprah that he WAS Peter Pan. She said, you like to imagine yourself as Peter Pan and he was getting annoyed, almost persecuted INSISTING he WAS Peter Pan."

"He said he had sex with women"

Also, as far as I'm concerned Michael is the father of his children, biologically too. He's the one who took care of them, so even if they weren't his biological kids it shouldn't really matter.

a skin disease did not effect his decision to bleach? wtf? um....if most of ur hand is white and u have what looks like age spots, wouldn't u try to even it out? and damn, it's not like it's permanent. cuz those areas can still get pigment. they can still tan. it's for everyday people who don't want to wear makeup on their hands. it makes no sense, u wash ur hands, it's gone. so that's y benequin was invented.

and u cannot bleach ur skin to be as white as his was. u would creat orange streaks, similar to a bad fake tan. take a look at th epics w/ th ebug bite....he's still got pigment in his legs. UNEVEN only b/c they were areas of his body that were never shown.

there would be no reason for him to consistenly sponsor black charities, hire black employees, and even be near black folk if he was unhappy w/ who he was.

his uncle has it. but *ahem* its progression can be quickened due to stress. and um...he is the kop

as for the peter pan bs...it's a state of mind. if he'd been to neverland, thenhe'd know. there's a kid inside of every adult.

"Just happened to only love white women even though "it don't matter if you're black or white"

"He said he had sex with women"

"He said his kids are his"



Remind the person writing this stuff to you that they were not with Michael every second, every hour, every day of his life. When he is speaking about MJ, it sounds like he's reading out of a tabloid. How does he know all the relationships Michael had? Just because MJ married two white women doesn't mean his dislikes being black or doesn't like black people. As soso said, look at all the black charities he sponsored, the black people he hired; hell, look at the women in his videos! Ahem, Naomi and Iman, please?

Remember what he said to Oprah: I'm proud of my race, I'm proud to be a black American. In 2001: I know my race, I just look in the mirror, I know I'm black.

Regarding the kids, ask him if every interacial person must look the same? Nicole Richie "looks" white, but she's biracial. Garcelle Beauvais' kids (Fancy from the Jamie Foxx Show) "look" white, but they are biracial.

His/her issue with the Peter Pan thing is ridiculous to me. Its amazing how a quote can be twisted and distorted. :doh:

and what? quincy jones had a white jump off...his daugther is hellalight.

it don't matter if u black or white. he'll chop anyone down. if dude knew mj, then he'd know that

KayHey said:

:thumbs_up: That's a great blog! There are a number of blogs in the blog roll, which I will like to look at later. :bookmarks: You are doing a great job jackie11!

Click to expand...

Thanks, yeah i really wanna stop this BULLSHIT lol, we gotta

Jackie xxxxxxxxx

WHY do we have to put up with this bullcrap. Im sick and tired of it. Sometimes I think Michael is better where he is, at peace, away from everyone who thinks he was some kind of evil child abusing, lying person. I hate this world sometimes, actually, a lot of the time recently.

Rockin. said:

WHY do we have to put up with this bullcrap. Im sick and tired of it. Sometimes I think Michael is better where he is, at peace, away from everyone who thinks he was some kind of evil child abusing, lying person. I hate this world sometimes, actually, a lot of the time recently.

Click to expand...

I know what you mean, but we have to try and make it a better world

Keep the faith xxxx

Some pics here: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2036080&postcount=9

I remember seeing a thread with loads of pics but I can't find it now. If I find it later I'll post a link to it.

Also others with vitiligo (He/she said no-one could be that white from vitiligo): http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73933

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...rdered-changed-mans-identity-place-world.html