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A conversation with a Los Angeles Homicide Detective

asandra

asandra

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Here you have the transcript from a conversation between a friend of mine, a lawyer from LA, has had yesterday with a woman who works on LAPD, on similar cases::clapping:

This evening I attended an event where, as we introduced ourselves, I found myself sitting next to a police detective who works for the Homicide Division of the Los Angeles Police Department located downtown. She said that the group that's working on the Murray case is located two offices down from her. (She herself works on cold cases.) Our conversation went something like this...

CC: Are you privy to the scuttlebutt going on in that division, like about the Conrad Murray case?

PD: Oh, yes. It's quite the topic of conversation around the water cooler and lunch room.

CC: Do you think that Murray is being charged with the appropriate crime? Are they going for the maximum charge?

PD: Definitely. There is no other charge that has as reasonable a likelihood of sticking.

CC: So second degree murder wouldn't stick?

PD: No. The burden of proof for malice aforethought is exacting, and it's highly unlikely, with the evidence they have, that it could be proven, even if the DA thinks there was any [malice], which he doesn't.

CC: Some fans think that maybe the DA doesn't have enough personal regard for Michael Jackson to pursue his killer more aggressively.

PD: Actually, it's quite the opposite. If the administration of propofol had happened to you or me, under the circumstances described, the matter would be brought before the appropriate medical board and that would be the end of it for Murray. It's because this happened to Michael Jackson that it's being pursued criminally at all. The DA wants to win this case, so he's not going to risk Murray going scot-free by pressing for a higher crime and then not winning.

CC: Well, the fans don't see it that way. They want him tried for murder.

PD: That's understandable, but what people think and what can be proven are two different things.

CC: And the family...

PD: Well, the family, of course, has an emotional investment in the outcome, so it's doubly hard for them to understand the legal technicalities involved. But, believe me, if the case didn't involve Michael Jackson, the matter wouldn't see the light of day criminally. It would all be handled civilly, with the family suing the doctor for wrongful death and that's it.

So there you have it, folks, from an insider.
 
^^ thanks. Basically, that's similar to what T-Mez said a couple of days ago. It's about what you can prove in court..
 
asandra said:
PD: Actually, it's quite the opposite. If the administration of propofol had happened to you or me, under the circumstances described, the matter would be brought before the appropriate medical board and that would be the end of it for Murray. It's because this happened to Michael Jackson that it's being pursued criminally at all. The DA wants to win this case, so he's not going to risk Murray going scot-free by pressing for a higher crime and then not winning.

...... But, believe me, if the case didn't involve Michael Jackson, the matter wouldn't see the light of day criminally. It would all be handled civilly, with the family suing the doctor for wrongful death and that's it.

So there you have it, folks, from an insider.
Click to expand...

so doctors are perfect murderers. you cannot even prosecute them. yeah i believed T-Mez immediately but this guy only confirmed everything once again. anyway the masterminds are free
 
If the LAPD didnt a little harder digging, Im sure they would find a reason for intent. There are too many oddities around this person. Although with only 3 investigators, they're only going to find so much. I dont think the investigation is really being pursued that vigorously.
 
Doctors should be held accountable for neglectful actions. No one wants to prosecute doctors, they're the perfect murderers.
 
If Katherine really is hiring private detectives, and she should they may be able to dig up a past history of Murrey either being incompetent, or prescribing inappopriately to wealthy patients. If he has had contact with any enemy of Michael for example. Murrey will be a marked man for the rest of his miserable life, he will always have to be looking over his shoulder.
 
sloride said:
Doctors should be held accountable for neglectful actions. No one wants to prosecute doctors, they're the perfect murderers.
Click to expand...
Exactly, doctors are seen too highly in our society it's insane on many levels, they are treated as half God's :smilerolleyes:

So Tmez was right like he always has been. I hope the DA does all he can even though I'm highly skeptical.
 
Thank you very much for posting this conversation.
 
well, the same DA prosecuted two nurses for giving a cancer patient propofol in a hospital setting , one got a plea bargain and the other was found not guilty because she proved she was not involved at all .

Murray on the other hand , was not in a hospital , his patient was healthy and was not dying like the one in the other case, did ADMIT he gave it . So they should stop acting like they are doing us & Katherine any favors . They should have admitted they did not believe they should have filed charged against any one in MJ's death , and they only went after him due to his admission , his admission did not allow them to simply ignore this case .
They are FORCED to prosecute him and they did seek the minimal charge possible and probably are seeking a plea bargain , but chernoff may not agree with them because any admission of guilt would prohibit Murray from benefiting financially and they did not sign contracts with TVs and book publishers for nothing .
 
thank you for the posting.....what makes me mad it how they say we dont have enough evidence for a murder charge....I dont think they are asking the right questions to the right people...I dont know why the people that were in that house are not speaking up....obviously they were only all employed by Michael for the paycheck...they can all sit there after the fact and cry and say...I loved Mr Jackson....well damn...if you loved Mr Jackson...then tell what the hell you know...dont be afraid....Michael needs some damn justice.
 
If all these other people were involved and Joe, Randy and LaToya believe this to be true, they need to speak with the police and tell them what they know. If the fans so believe it, then they need to speak with the police and show them what they know.

If all anyone does is throw out accusations and never proves anything, all it is then is a conspiracy theory and slander campaign........not to mention the Hoax sights that keep insisting the photograph is not real. Well, thats cause they don't want to deal with the fact that Michael is even dead at all.

Its hard to be taken seriously when you have all these unrealistic crazy people out there.
 
I do not believe anyone beside Murray is involved thats bullcrap, but I do NOT trust the DA/LAPD
 
C: So second degree murder wouldn't stick?

PD: No. The burden of proof for malice aforethought is exacting, and it's highly unlikely, with the evidence they have, that it could be proven, even if the DA thinks there was any [malice], which he doesn't.
Click to expand...
well this police office hasnt read up on the law cause for murder 2 u dont need intent if it comes under gross disregard for human life. they need to be asked why they didnt go for murder 2 based on that definition. i presume cause they think the word murder will turn jurrors off
 
you're not going to get any other answers then you got in that interview. the detective has the luxury of none of us knowing about any propofol cases in the past. and, quite frankly, how MJ was treated by police during 2005 trial, speaks much louder than that detective can ever speak. actions speak louder than words. so the cops are suspect.
 
asandra said:
Here you have the transcript from a conversation between a friend of mine, a lawyer from LA, has had yesterday with a woman who works on LAPD, on similar cases::clapping:

This evening I attended an event where, as we introduced ourselves, I found myself sitting next to a police detective who works for the Homicide Division of the Los Angeles Police Department located downtown. She said that the group that's working on the Murray case is located two offices down from her. (She herself works on cold cases.) Our conversation went something like this...

CC: Are you privy to the scuttlebutt going on in that division, like about the Conrad Murray case?

PD: Oh, yes. It's quite the topic of conversation around the water cooler and lunch room.

CC: Do you think that Murray is being charged with the appropriate crime? Are they going for the maximum charge?

PD: Definitely. There is no other charge that has as reasonable a likelihood of sticking.

CC: So second degree murder wouldn't stick?

PD: No. The burden of proof for malice aforethought is exacting, and it's highly unlikely, with the evidence they have, that it could be proven, even if the DA thinks there was any [malice], which he doesn't.

CC: Some fans think that maybe the DA doesn't have enough personal regard for Michael Jackson to pursue his killer more aggressively.

PD: Actually, it's quite the opposite. If the administration of propofol had happened to you or me, under the circumstances described, the matter would be brought before the appropriate medical board and that would be the end of it for Murray. It's because this happened to Michael Jackson that it's being pursued criminally at all. The DA wants to win this case, so he's not going to risk Murray going scot-free by pressing for a higher crime and then not winning.

CC: Well, the fans don't see it that way. They want him tried for murder.

PD: That's understandable, but what people think and what can be proven are two different things.

CC: And the family...

PD: Well, the family, of course, has an emotional investment in the outcome, so it's doubly hard for them to understand the legal technicalities involved. But, believe me, if the case didn't involve Michael Jackson, the matter wouldn't see the light of day criminally. It would all be handled civilly, with the family suing the doctor for wrongful death and that's it.

So there you have it, folks, from an insider.
Click to expand...


Was all this recorded via audio or video?
 
I see their point.

Better to convict him of something than lose a big case against him. If he is convicted, even if we don't like the charge or the sentence, he will lose a lot more than if they tried to get him on a bigger charge i.e. he'll lose his medical license, his practice, his reputation etc.
 
Thanks for the post. It contains information we all heard before, but let us not give up. Hang in there.
 
IMO, that conversation never happened. And ya'll just eating it up
 
CatherineNZ said:
so doctors are perfect murderers. you cannot even prosecute them. yeah i believed T-Mez immediately but this guy only confirmed everything once again. anyway the masterminds are free
Click to expand...
yep. trhat is why a doctor was CHOSEN and why this doctor is claiming 'NOT GUILTY'.
 
CatherineNZ said:
so doctors are perfect murderers. you cannot even prosecute them. yeah i believed T-Mez immediately but this guy only confirmed everything once again. anyway the masterminds are free
Click to expand...

And that is the one thing that keeps popping up in my head: if someone wanted to harm him- this would be a convenient way to go about it.
 
Seven said:
I see their point.

Better to convict him of something than lose a big case against him. If he is convicted, even if we don't like the charge or the sentence, he will lose a lot more than if they tried to get him on a bigger charge i.e. he'll lose his medical license, his practice, his reputation etc.
Click to expand...

No, I don't agree, Just to convict him of something isn't enough, its Like convicting him to a mistermeaner charge, that would be "SOMETHING". Losing his license and his reputation doesn't equal to losing a life.
 
Soundmind said:
well, the same DA prosecuted two nurses for giving a cancer patient propofol in a hospital setting , one got a plea bargain and the other was found not guilty because she proved she was not involved at all .

Murray on the other hand , was not in a hospital , his patient was healthy and was not dying like the one in the other case, did ADMIT he gave it . So they should stop acting like they are doing us & Katherine any favors . They should have admitted they did not believe they should have filed charged against any one in MJ's death , and they only went after him due to his admission , his admission did not allow them to simply ignore this case .
They are FORCED to prosecute him and they did seek the minimal charge possible and probably are seeking a plea bargain , but chernoff may not agree with them because any admission of guilt would prohibit Murray from benefiting financially and they did not sign contracts with TVs and book publishers for nothing .
Click to expand...

OMG, I think you just answered my question as to why would he plead not guilty after administering the drug that ultimately caused the death of his patient... Damn. Didn't think of that... Hope he doesn't get away with this.
 
OK, I just returned from the recurring Tuesday night event I told y'all about last week and spoke again to the detective from the Cold Case Division of the LAPD. I'll try to recreate our conversation as best I remember it. :cheeky:

CC: The fans want to know why the DA didn't charge Conrad Murray with second degree murder and then plea bargain to involuntary manslaughter to be sure to get Murray on something.

PD: We can't charge something that can't be proven [remember, malice aforethought is required for second degree murder] just for the heck of it so that we can plea down to involuntary. That's why the DA took so long [seven months] to charge Murray. There was a lot of work to be done to frame the case on a charge that's actually winable.

CC: The Jackson Family's lawyer, Brian Oxman, is trying to get Michael's fans to write letters to District Attorney Steve Cooley to pressure him to enhance the charges. Can a DA be influenced in this way?

PD: Absolutely, positively not. We go on the essence of the case, not on what outside parties think, even if there are thousands of outside parties. This lawyer has zero chance of influencing the District Attorney, no matter how many letters are written.

CC: How do you know you can't win on second degree murder?

PD: Well, first of all, the defendant has counsel, and his counsel knows that murder two can't be won, so on what basis can such a plea be bargained? "Uh, we're going to charge your client with a more severe crime [that we can't prove] so your client can plead down to involuntary. " It doesn't work that way. The DA's office has lots of conversations- -we call it 'trying the case in the office'--and District Attorney Cooley is confident of what he can win before he brings charges. Involuntary manslaughter is what the DA is reasonably certain he can win.

CC: What do you think of Oxman's efforts to get the fans involved?

PD: He sounds like an imbecile.

CC: Well, he's not very smart; we know that.

PD: A plea bargain always results in lower charges than that which the DA could get on a conviction, but we can't try all cases; there are just too many. While perfect justice would mandate a certain outcome, it's just not practical that all cases can be tried. This one's probably going to go to trial because it's high profile and the world is watching. If the case didn't involve Michael Jackson, it wouldn't be a criminal case at all. [This detective mentioned this last week.]

CC: Do you happen to know if Steve Cooley is a fan of Michael Jackson?

PD: No, I don't know know and, even if he was, that would have nothing to do with how he pursued the case against Murray.

***

So there you go. She never heard of Oxman (apparently doesn't watch tabloid television), but information that Oxman is trying to get the fans involved [see Oxman's alleged Facebook account] means he's an idiot.
 
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